Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Is it just me or are there a ton of things that DC has dropped the ball on in the revamp of the DC universe one year later?

For instance..

- Batgirl is an evil *****?!?

- Bart Allen is a mopey emo who is apparently 23

- Nightwing is a tool

- Green Arrow's book is horrible beyond words

ect...

Originally posted by Grimm22
Is it just me or are there a ton of things that DC has dropped the ball on in the revamp of the DC universe one year later?

For instance..

- Batgirl is an evil *****?!?

- Bart Allen is a mopey emo who is apparently 23

- Nightwing is a tool

- Green Arrow's book is horrible beyond words

ect...
1. Lazarus Pit made her evil , however it seems like Geof Johns may change that in the Titans east arc.
2. He's 23 becasue he was gone with the flashes and SBP for such a long time.
3. Marv Wolfmans comming on to write just pretend the Bruce Jones run never happened
4. Thats your own Opinion, I actually like it.

Now while there are flaws in 52 there are many successes too

1. Batman's titles are a ton better now.
2. Superman's books are a lot better
3.Checkmate is great
4. Uncle sam and the frredom fighters has been good.
5. Teen Titans has improved
6. Green Lantern is Great
7.Batman is much more human
8. Manhunter continues to be great
9. The New JlA has been great
10. The New JSA looks good
need I go on

The Flash is the only OYL book that i don't really like.

Originally posted by Devil Lance
1. Lazarus Pit made her evil , however it seems like Geof Johns may change that in the Titans east arc.
2. He's 23 becasue he was gone with the flashes and SBP for such a long time.
3. Marv Wolfmans comming on to write just pretend the Bruce Jones run never happened
4. Thats your own Opinion, I actually like it.

Now while there are flaws in 52 there are many successes too

1. Batman's titles are a ton better now.
2. Superman's books are a lot better
3.Checkmate is great
4. Uncle sam and the frredom fighters has been good.
5. Teen Titans has improved
6. Green Lantern is Great
7.Batman is much more human
8. Manhunter continues to be great
9. The New JlA has been great
10. The New JSA looks good
need I go on
Good post. There's much more positive OYL stuff than negative. The only thing that bothers me is that Flash sucks.

Originally posted by Devil Lance
1. Lazarus Pit made her evil , however it seems like Geof Johns may change that in the Titans east arc.
2. He's 23 becasue he was gone with the flashes and SBP for such a long time.
3. Marv Wolfmans comming on to write just pretend the Bruce Jones run never happened
4. Thats your own Opinion, I actually like it.

Now while there are flaws in 52 there are many successes too

1. Batman's titles are a ton better now.
2. Superman's books are a lot better
3.Checkmate is great
4. Uncle sam and the frredom fighters has been good.
5. Teen Titans has improved
6. Green Lantern is Great
7.Batman is much more human
8. Manhunter continues to be great
9. The New JlA has been great
10. The New JSA looks good
need I go on

1. Sounds like a Plot Device

2. He was about 17 at the end of IC, he doesn't look anywhere near 21 and either way his character has been DECIMATED

3. Well thats good

4. Indeed, GA wasn't that good Pre- IC, but its even worse now.

Yeah, the good out ways the bad

Especially Green Lantern

However, Superman and Batman books aren't that much better. They still are pretty boring

Originally posted by Validus
Good post. There's much more positive OYL stuff than negative. The only thing that bothers me is that Flash sucks.
I still can't believe how bad it is...


I mean it has The Griffin.....






THE GRIFFIN!!!

The Lazarus Pit isn't a plot device. It's effect on ones mental state is well documented continuity.

Then again, I never really cared for Cassie. That Robin arc was highly enjoyable to me.

Originally posted by Grimm22
1. Sounds like a Plot Device

2. He was about 17 at the end of IC, he doesn't look anywhere near 21 and either way his character has been DECIMATED

3. Well thats good

4. Indeed, GA wasn't that good Pre- IC, but its even worse now.

Yeah, the good out ways the bad

Especially Green Lantern

However, Superman and Batman books aren't that much better. They still are pretty boring

You consider Dini and Morrisson's issues on Batman to be boring

Originally posted by Devil Lance
You consider Dini and Morrisson's issues on Batman to be boring
I wasn't going to comment on it.

Up, Up, and Away was also some fine story telling.

Originally posted by Grimm22
However, Superman and Batman books aren't that much better. They still are pretty boring

Thats a matter of opinion...

up, up and away was alright, action has turned a frankly stupid idea and turned it into a readable comic, and despite his hiccup this month, busiek is one of the best superman writers around...

and then there's allstar...

Originally posted by Validus
I wasn't going to comment on it.

Up, Up, and Away was also some fine story telling.

beat me to it...

Yeah, the Flash easily DC's worst book right now.

The writers took everything I love about the book and took a crap on it and then lit on fire and threw it into the pits of hell

Originally posted by Devil Lance
You consider Dini and Morrisson's issues on Batman to be boring

Well I havent been reading Detective in a while

But so far Morrison's writing has been Meh

Originally posted by pr1983
Thats a matter of opinion...

up, up and away was alright, action has turned a frankly stupid idea and turned it into a readable comic, and despite his hiccup this month, busiek is one of the best superman writers around...

and then there's allstar...



beat me to it...

Action comics is alright.

Superman's latest issue was incredibly boring.

All Star is amazing.

Up up and away was great though

Superman to Aliens: We'll Smack You Up!

Priceless.

Besides, Donner/Johns is going to be gold.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Action comics is alright.

Superman's latest issue was incredibly boring.

All Star is amazing.

Up up and away was great though

but thats one issue... the others were decent enough imo...

Originally posted by Validus
Superman to Aliens: We'll Smack You Up!

Priceless.

Besides, Donner/Johns is going to be gold.

yeah, action just keeps getting better and better...

Originally posted by Validus
Superman to Aliens: We'll Smack You Up!

Priceless.

Besides, Donner/Johns is going to be gold.

I love that

I want to see Supes say more stuff like that

Its very Silver Age like

Originally posted by Validus
Good post. There's much more positive OYL stuff than negative. The only thing that bothers me is that Flash sucks.
I forgot to mentioned the botched Wonder Woman relaunch. So late it could almost be a quarterly.

http://www.neatorama.com/images/2006-01/superman-propaganda.jpg

Originally posted by Validus
I forgot to mentioned the botched Wonder Woman relaunch. So late it could almost be a quarterly.

stupid Heinberg if you know you can't make a deadline then don't except the freaking job!!!!
however what he has produced has been very good imo just very late.
Not as bad as AllstarBatman though

I wish they would have just put Gail Simone on it, while she may not as good a writer as Heinberg (although thats debateable) her books are almost always on time and she writes ww very well.

Simone+ Dodson= Perfection

Yeah, Jim Lee is killing his rep.

I mean first it was All Star Bats which isnt that bad because the book is a laughing stock anyway and its not in All Star Continuity, so it dosent matter

But, im looking forward to Wildcats, even though its never going to come out

Whats so bad about the flash ?

|Have you read any of it? Its... bad.

Originally posted by grey fox
Whats so bad about the flash ?

decompressed story
crappy dialogue
ugly art
EMO EMO EMO

Pretty much... but you forgot the Griffin kid...

Originally posted by Doc Potato
Pretty much... but you forgot the Griffin kid...

WHAAAAAAAAAAT

Griffins funny as hell , he's a pathetic wannabe .....

DC has basicly killed Bart's character.

He would have been better off if he was killed in IC

Actually, I think they are trying to give Bart some depth. Trying to make him seem mature as opposed to that annoying kid who runs fast. It may not be a resounding success but I'm onboards with the idea.

And I like the Griffin character. Bart needs a more personal enemy (he can't just have the Flash's rogue gallery, give him one with a more personal touch). Plus the Griffin serves the purpose of getting Bart out of his funk and making him actually step up to be the Flash. Hopefully when Barts steps up the book will improve and read less like Dawson's Creek

Originally posted by marvelprince
Actually, I think they are trying to give Bart some depth. Trying to make him seem mature as opposed to that annoying kid who runs fast. It may not be a resounding success but I'm onboards with the idea.

On the contrary I think this was the perfect chance to give the DCU a Flash more along the lines of the JLU incarnation. Bart in Impulse and Young Justice was a fun character to read about. Plus, he was already growing more mature in Teen Titans without getting all EMO.

Originally posted by marvelprince
And I like the Griffin character. Bart needs a more personal enemy (he can't just have the Flash's rogue gallery, give him one with a more personal touch). Plus the Griffin serves the purpose of getting Bart out of his funk and making him actually step up to be the Flash. Hopefully when Barts steps up the book will improve and read less like Dawson's Creek
That's what Inertia is for.

Yeah, I agree Dan Didio is making a mess of OYL here are the ones that really make wanna slap his bald head:

Catwoman's Baby
Bart Allen is now the Speed force.
Talia's son is annoying.
Uncle Sam and The Freedom fighters is a joke.
MM looks confused and puzzling

It's just a mess they need to fix or DC is really making idiots of themselves.

I read some of MM1 and gave up. i had no frickin' idea what was going on...

Originally posted by Validus
On the contrary I think this was the perfect chance to give the DCU a Flash more along the lines of the JLU incarnation. Bart in Impulse and Young Justice was a fun character to read about. Plus, he was already growing more mature in Teen Titans without getting all EMO.

Hey, I'm not saying they were successful. Just offered some insight into what they may have been thinking. I don't think all is lost on the Flash though. What he needs is Beast Boy to give him a slap tell him to chill out. Then we can have a fun loving Flash and someone who isn't too out of touch with others in Bart.

Originally posted by Validus
That's what Inertia is for.

Only one? And isn't he still a kid? He may be a clone, but Griffin was like a brother for Bart. Teaching him the ropes and getting him a job in the time when Bart aged

I only read issue 1... is Griffin evil now then?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Yeah, I agree Dan Didio is making a mess of OYL here are the ones that really make wanna slap his bald head:

Catwoman's Baby

I am curious about Selins'a baby. Now if it turns out its Bradley's and not Bruce's then I won't care.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Bart Allen is now the Speed force.

The new development intrigues me.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Talia's son is annoying.

So annoying

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Uncle Sam and The Freedom fighters is a joke.

Yup

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
MM looks confused and puzzling

Double yup. Hardly seems worth my time

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
It's just a mess they need to fix or DC is really making idiots of themselves.

Well, they've done some other things that I've liked. I like Green Arrow kicking ass in his book. Justice League of America 0 and 1 have been great. Trial of Shazaam (is this OYL?) has also been really good. And I've been enjoying the new Outsiders

And for the bad don't forget Nightwing (I feel bad for Jones cause I believe he intended to be writing Jason as Nightwing, not Dick). Superman hasn't done it for me. Batman is just...there. I but him cause it's Batman, no other reason. I hear Teen Titans is good. Maybe I should pick that up. To sum up some good things came out of OYL, it certainly had TONS of potential but so far I'm dissapointed

I even forgot Booster Gold's death. Just completely not needed. Selina's baby is the one that really gets under my skin. I've even wrote to Pfeifer giving him my reactions. If it's not Bruce then this will be one DC's most clumpsy written story.

But indeed there are some hidden gems. I do love The Trials of Shazam and very much looking forward to The Spectre's apparation in Tales of the Unexpected.

Originally posted by Doc Potato
I only read issue 1... is Griffin evil now then?

Well he got powers but was irresponsible and Jay told him to take a hike. He found out about a supposed bobing of a yacht and didn't want Jay to best him so he sent him on a wildgoose case across town while he swooped in and saved the day. Basically though he only wants to be a hero for the fame and when he "helps" people he usually kills someone in the process (inadvertantly, though he doesn't seem to care). Also use of his powers apparently makes him age rapidly (he looked about 40 yrs older, according to Bart, in the latest issue). Oh and he threw Bart out of a window when Bart tired to get him to stop "helping"

Hmmm... I've rtead face the Face and that was grea, though it was different than what I expected. This Bard bloke intrigues me, has he appeared before?

Selina's baby is Sam's kid and yeah, thats a dumb decision. Hopefully that kid goes off into limbo along with Power Girl's baby.

POWER GIRL has a baby!? F**king Hell, its a superheroic baby boom!!!!

Originally posted by Doc Potato
POWER GIRL has a baby!? F**king Hell, its a superheroic baby boom!!!!
had past tense

Batman's son annoys the crap out of me.

Hopefully he will die or end up being Dick's son or somthing

Dick would just throw the kid in a hole

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Yeah, I agree Dan Didio is making a mess of OYL here are the ones that really make wanna slap his bald head:

Catwoman's Baby
Bart Allen is now the Speed force.
Talia's son is annoying.
Uncle Sam and The Freedom fighters is a joke.
MM looks confused and puzzling

It's just a mess they need to fix or DC is really making idiots of themselves.

You forgot how awful Green Arrow's book has gotten

Some of my problems with it:

The Freedom Figthers suck.

Nightwing sucks sooooo bad, which hurts b/c he's my fav. character. Wolvman please hurry and get here.

Deathstroke losing to Green Arrow. No Way. I like what they are trying to do with the character (training and getting better after losing), but this is to far. I would have rather them kill Ollie and have Conner be the new GA, he is much better.

Can anyone tell me what happened to Aquaman? I dont read it.

What was the point of having Batman adopt Robin if they were planning to bring his real son into the picture?

Up, Up and Away wasnt that good to me. Although I like the current run in Superman, and can't wait For Johns/Donner.

Biggest Problem: Monitors? Why? There is no reason. DC you are just writing in circles now. Can we please have something new? I know they want to connect things to what happened 20 years ago, but come on that was the past do something new. Look how it paid off for Marvel.

Besides what happened to Wally? That came out of nowhere (him vanishing). And where are his twins (who i believe have powers now after IC #4).

O yea. the art in ION is terrible, and unfinished. its the reason why I stopped reading it after #1.

Aquaman now is Aquaman Sword of Atlantis. There is new Aquaman who has been revealed to be the nephew of the lighthouse keeper who found Orin when he was a kid (IIRC, I could be wrong). Orin has been revealed as the Dweller of the deep, some kind of mysterious creature thats been guiding Arthur (new Aquaman). Oh, and he has some creppy lucky tentacles growing out of his face. I think Lucid Lui would know better than be but I think thats all thats really be going on in Aquaman

Orin is now some crappy sea monster...?

I hate the new aquaman

I mean I like how he has a sword and all, but I still miss the old aquaman

But give his sidekick, the shark guy his own book

He deserves it

Originally posted by Grimm22
You forgot how awful Green Arrow's book has gotten

Hey, I'm liking the new GA book. The latest issue has really picked up

Yeah, marvelprince basically covered what's going on with Aquaman at the moment.

The book, though a tad slow, has been a good read. The last issue was great. The new Aquaman is the least interesting part of the book to me though. What's going on with Orin/Dwellar has me really interested. King Shark is freaking awesome. They've introduced some cool new stuff to the Aquaman mythos aswell.

The next arc will have alot of classic Aquaman. It's a flashback showing his and King Shark's first meeting. Should be good.

Originally posted by Grimm22
I hate the new aquaman

I mean I like how he has a sword and all, but I still miss the old aquaman

But give his sidekick, the shark guy his own book

He deserves it
Do you like anything?

I heard he thinks the Thing is the ugliest and most overrated character ever created too. And he can't lift 100 tons.

Originally posted by Validus
Do you like anything?

I like...

Pants?

I'll admit issue #66 of Green Arrow was really interesting and I'm interesting in the training he did the past year. But, i think makin him that good to were he is on a Batman level or Deathstroke level, takes away from why i liked the book in the first place (pre-OYL).

Green Arrow has never been the most skilled or the best fighter (hell, his son Conner is a much much better fighter), 7 out of every 10 fights he was in he was the underdog. But he was still JLA, and for a reason. He might not have been as fast or strong as his opponents but he was a scrapper. Thats why he was considered an "Old Dog" he used his mind and experence to win. And that was interesting to watch, how he would never give up and find a way.

Its easy to make another Batman/Deathstroke level character, but its something special when you have an underdog who really earns and works for his victories. I think they just ruined a different and refreshing character.

I still think they should have killed Ollie and let Conner step up into the role as a much darker Green Arrow after losing his father...just sayin I really like Conner (he should at least have his own name instead of Green Arrow II)

Originally posted by db_renji
I'll admit issue #66 of Green Arrow was really interesting and I'm interesting in the training he did the past year. But, i think makin him that good to were he is on a Batman level or Deathstroke level, takes away from why i liked the book in the first place (pre-OYL).

Green Arrow has never been the most skilled or the best fighter (hell, his son Conner is a much much better fighter), 7 out of every 10 fights he was in he was the underdog. But he was still JLA, and for a reason. He might not have been as fast or strong as his opponents but he was a scrapper. Thats why he was considered an "Old Dog" he used his mind and experence to win. And that was interesting to watch, how he would never give up and find a way.

Its easy to make another Batman/Deathstroke level character, but its something special when you have an underdog who really earns and works for his victories. I think they just ruined a different and refreshing character.

I still think they should have killed Ollie and let Conner step up into the role as a much darker Green Arrow after losing his father...just sayin I really like Conner (he should at least have his own name instead of Green Arrow II)

While to some extent I agree, I don't thinking Ollie should be running around with no skills. First off his son is a much better fighter than he is, not to mention allot of the villians he fights and most of the heroes he rolls with. Considering how competitive Ollie is with a other heroes (Batman anyone) I would say its pretty in character for him to want to up his game. That and the fact that it would help him stay alive to protect the city he loves so much.

I really think Conner is the one would should be in the JLA

Originally posted by marvelprince


I really think Conner is the one would should be in the JLA

Instead of friggin Roy Harper....

Originally posted by Draco69
Instead of friggin Roy Harper....



...I dont know. You can't have speedy hanging around with the titans forever can you ?

Originally posted by Draco69
Instead of friggin Roy Harper....


No.

Connor would be more out of left field than Black Lightning. The only reason he was on the Morrison team was because of his friendship with Kyle.

Originally posted by Validus
I wasn't going to comment on it.


Its a pity he's only on the book until December ....

Originally posted by Grimm22
I like...

Pants?

He likes Dan Slott .... A lot !!!!!!!!

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Its a pity he's only on the book until December ....
its just a fill in arc and then he will be back

but John freaking Ostrander is writing it so its going to be good.

Morrison/Kubert are on Batman for 15 issues. Could go longer but yeah, Ostrander doing a 4 issue fill in is nothing to complain about.

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
He likes Dan Slott .... A lot !!!!!!!!

Dan Slott is the man thumbsup

Its sad because he's only writing one book right now

However he's getting another title post-Civil War

Originally posted by Grimm22
Dan Slott is the man thumbsup

Its sad because he's only writing one book right now

However he's getting another title post-Civil War

he is. he can't comment on it right now because it involves the outcome of Civil war but he did say it will be a lot more darker then She-Hulk or Thing.

Originally posted by Validus
Morrison/Kubert are on Batman for 15 issues. Could go longer but yeah, Ostrander doing a 4 issue fill in is nothing to complain about.

Can Morisson ever hold down a monthly frikin book !!!!! He should get some advice from Geoff johns, who has about 5000000000000000000000000000000001.

Newest issue of Batman was great.

I love how Batman acts as a father

Damien: I hate you, your a loser

Bats: ........

*Batkicks Damien*

Bats: I dont let Superman yell at me, do you think im going to let some little **** like you get away with it?

God, that kid was so annoying.

And I've never seen Bruce act so leniently. He should have at least backhanded the little brat.

Yeah, but I still love the dialouge

Alfred: Allow me to show you your temporary quarters, young sir

Damien: F**k you!

I kinda like Damien too. Little brat....

I WANT A LAPTOP!

Classic

Damien has horrible fashion sense. What the hell kind of Robin costume was he wearing....?

Anyone read the New Teen Titans. I love Miss Martian. Predictable origin though....

Nope, sorry...

new action was great though imo... it was getting better and better, and i was finally starting to like woods' art...

and supergirl #10... meh... though the 'how fat is she' line made me laugh out loud. on the bus. during rush hour.

Originally posted by Draco69
Anyone read the New Teen Titans. I love Miss Martian. Predictable origin though....

I picked it up today

As usual great issue.

Zatara is a dick.

Miss. Martian is turning out to be a cool character.

Originally posted by pr1983
Nope, sorry...

new action was great though imo... it was getting better and better, and i was finally starting to like woods' art...

and supergirl #10... meh... though the 'how fat is she' line made me laugh out loud. on the bus. during rush hour.

The new supergirl was 10x better than the last issue.

and the art was great as usual

yeah, it was better than 9...

churchill's stuff is great, although i felt he was falling into the 'all the women look the same' trap a bit in that issue...

Supergirl #10 was actually a good read for once. I hope they can keep it up.

Teen Titans is getting better by the issue. There's gotta be explanation for all these new teen versions of adult heroes other than New Earth.

Someone needs to teach Churchill how to draw ankles.

Its funny because DC is going through all of this trouble to give Supergirl this stupid origin and its all going to be retconed in Action Comics anyway

Originally posted by Validus
Someone needs to teach Churchill how to draw ankles.

Hmm... *goes to look*

Originally posted by Grimm22
Its funny because DC is going through all of this trouble to give Supergirl this stupid origin and its all going to be retconed in Action Comics anyway

i thought it was bizarro, not supergirl... or is this another arc?

Originally posted by Grimm22
Its funny because DC is going through all of this trouble to give Supergirl this stupid origin and its all going to be retconed in Action Comics anyway
Come again?

Its not hard to understand

Notice how in Supergirl her parents have been wearing those weird outfits with the S symbol all over them and whatnot?

Take a look at Kubert's promo art for Action Comics.

The Supes's origin and whatnot are changing.

Thus all this crap from Supergirl is being retconned

Originally posted by Grimm22
Its not hard to understand

Notice how in Supergirl her parents have been wearing those weird outfits with the S symbol all over them and whatnot?

Take a look at Kubert's promo art for Action Comics.

The Supes's origin and whatnot are changing.

Thus all this crap from Supergirl is being retconned

any chance of a link to said promo art? all i've seen is a few pics, and i'd heard that it was all about bizarro... or something similar...

The Supergirl book isnt as bad as everyone thinks it is. I like the fact of Cpt. Boomerang being a supporting chacater. I want to see her full origin. I would have preferred that she turned evil though, like she was supposed to be.

Teen Titans are getting better. Don't care for Miss Martian at all. But, I really like Zatara, he's funny and I think a good character.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Its not hard to understand

Notice how in Supergirl her parents have been wearing those weird outfits with the S symbol all over them and whatnot?

Take a look at Kubert's promo art for Action Comics.

The Supes's origin and whatnot are changing.

Thus all this crap from Supergirl is being retconned
Kubert's promo art just shows Jor-El wearing more Earth like clothes but that goes right along with Jor-El's personality. He was practically an outsider to his people. Doesn't prove anything.

Miss Maritans looks like she stepped straight out an anime , sailor fuku and all.....

Originally posted by Validus
Kubert's promo art just shows Jor-El wearing more Earth like clothes but that goes right along with Jor-El's personality. He was practically an outsider to his people. Doesn't prove anything.

I can always hope cant I