Spectre & Eclipso vs Lords of Order and Chaos

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Spectre
Eclipso

vs

Nabu
Shazzam
Mordu
M'Shulla
Gorrum
T'Char
Terataya


And before you go saying it would be a curbstomp check this qoute out.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6445/titansoe8.png

Silas Burr
Shazam? He's pretty far from being a Lord of Order. And I have to doubt any Lords of Chaos are Spectre-level being as Dr.Fate faces them all the time and I can't think of him ever coming across one as powerful as the Spectre. I don't recognize the last four names on that list but I could see enough Lords together overtaking the Spectre if they're Lords of Nabu range. And Shazam could fight Eclipso I guess.

Shazzam was named a Lord of Order in Day of Vengance. And It's in a canon comic so it's true. Lords of Choas are Spectre level power. The reason Dr. Fate faces them down is becuase mostly they have to take corporal form in our realm, and are weakened by that.

Silas Burr
Where in Day of Vengeance is Shazam named a Lord of Order?

Dr.Fate is a corporeal form as well so the lord empowering him suffers from the same weakness. I was assuming each Lord was using a host here since that's the only way they can interact with anything on Earth.

Juntai
It's easy enough to assume that he meant Spectre level as in high end magic level, as opposed to teen with kung fu skills and a staff level. I doubt Tim can really grasp the power of either of them truly. Spectre's beat them before. Even they understand he is beyond them.

thtadthtshldntb
In the DoV IC Special Nabu states that Shazam was one of the Lords of Order.

Anyway, Spectre without the backing from the Presence, just drawing upon ambient magic destroyed all of the Lords. The Spectre is one of the more powerful DC Angels, although when he manifests inside a Creation he is weakened quite a bit as all the Angels are in order to protect Creation from their presence.

This is a easy victory for Spectre and Eclipso.

Silas Burr
Where in the Special?

Silas Burr
I can only guess this is it.

"We were working together, Shazam and I and all of the great lords...".

If so, that's being taken out of context. He's not calling Shazam a Lord, he's saying Shazam was with him and the Lords. Shazam is a human being just like Captain Marvel.

I never said the battle took place on earth. And I would assume Tim knows of what he speaks, he gets his info from Bats, whos literally been to hell and back.

kevdude
The Spectre and Eclipso win, but it does take them some time (they are nothing to sneeze at). I am beginning to wonder why people say The Spectre is weaker without a host blink . He has done crazy things just by himself. The host joined with him does show him the human way of going around about giving out vengeance. But still without a host the Spectre is near unbeatable. It looks to me like a hostless Spectre is more powerful and dangerous then 1 that has a host... smokin'

jrodslam
Originally posted by Silas Burr
I can only guess this is it.

"We were working together, Shazam and I and all of the great lords...".

If so, that's being taken out of context. He's not calling Shazam a Lord, he's saying Shazam was with him and the Lords. Shazam is a human being just like Captain Marvel.

The wizard Shazam IS a Lord of Order. Nabu is the highest of Order, but Shazam isnt too far under him.

galan7777777
the spectre wins on his own

Silas Burr
Originally posted by jrodslam
The wizard Shazam IS a Lord of Order. Nabu is the highest of Order, but Shazam isnt too far under him.


Shazam is not a Lord of Order. He's a human being born and raised in Canaan. And was nowhere near the power of Nabu.

D-Block
Originally posted by Silas Burr
Shazam is not a Lord of Order. He's a human being born and raised in Canaan. And was nowhere near the power of Nabu.

Shazam is a Lord of Order he's not on Nabu's level though I have the comic when I get home I can quote where it says that he's one.

grey fox
Spectre tore them all apart once , he does it again ..only quicker.

Originally posted by grey fox
Spectre tore them all apart once , he does it again ..only quicker.


He took them on one on one, this time they are all united against him.

He and Eclipso might win. But I think is a 6/10.

All together these lords can summon some pretty powerfull magic.

galan7777777
Originally posted by [email protected]
He took them on one on one, this time they are all united against him.

He and Eclipso might win. But I think is a 6/10.

All together these lords can summon some pretty powerfull magic. there is really no way they can beat the wrath of god, as i said spectre can win on his own

Well according to DC as seen in the clip above the Lords of Chaos like M'Shulla are on the same level of power as the spectre.

galan7777777
Originally posted by [email protected]
Well according to DC as seen in the clip above the Lords of Chaos like M'Shulla are on the same level of power as the spectre. hmmm on the same level as god's wrath? that dosent really make any sense, but spectre can beat them the same way he has beaten fate before

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/7343/dov2uo8.jpg

Originally posted by galan7777777
hmmm on the same level as god's wrath? that dosent really make any sense, but spectre can beat them the same way he has beaten fate before

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/7343/dov2uo8.jpg

Well according to DC they are as you can see by my scan there. And that was a one on one fight. This isn't.

galan7777777
i just dont think you see what spectre is capable of, if he wants you dead, then you are dead...... and that scan concerning those characters having spectre level power is not valid...... what have they done that would even remotely put them in his league?

The scan is perfectly valid, it's not my fault it goes against your beliefs. And Spectre had decent fights with just Shazzam and Nabu alone. I think all of them united together could take him down.

galan7777777
Originally posted by [email protected]
The scan is perfectly valid, it's not my fault it goes against your beliefs. And Spectre had decent fights with just Shazzam and Nabu alone. I think all of them united together could take him down. and how exactly are they going to "take him down"? he cant be killed or KO'd, and they cant imprison him in another dimension..... and do you think this team could beat The Living Tribunal?

I think together they have enough power to perhaps imprison him or at least drive him off. And Spectre and LT are not exactly the same.

Spectre's power comes from magic.

LT's power is cosmic in nature.

Sorry, according to the scan the Lords of Chaos together are equal to the Spectre. I think that added with the Lords of Order can do the job nicely.

galan7777777
Originally posted by [email protected]
I think together they have enough power to perhaps imprison him or at least drive him off. And Spectre and LT are not exactly the same.

Spectre's power comes from magic.
if you consider the Logos magic then you are correct wink

Originally posted by [email protected]
Sorry, according to the scan the Lords of Chaos together are equal to the Spectre. I think that added with the Lords of Order can do the job nicely. again, what have they done that puts them on spectres level? Just because they say that they are that powerful dosent necessarily make it true

Actually it does. If it's stated in a canon issue then yes it does. We havent seen anough of the Lords of Chaos yet.

galan7777777
Originally posted by [email protected]
Actually it does. If it's stated in a canon issue then yes it does. We havent seen anough of the Lords of Chaos yet. exactly, so we cannot yet assume that just because they say they are that powerful, that they truly are..... its like that phrase "actions speak louder then words"

Well in this case since it is a valid scan, words are just as good.

galan7777777
Originally posted by [email protected]
Well in this case since it is a valid scan, words are just as good. statements on how powerful a character "might" be mean nothing when your going up against Spectre who has countless feats..... we cant just assume that these characters are on Spectre level untill they prove it through on pannel feats

WrathfulDwarf
You guys should really stop making vs. The Spectre matches. Aside from the Wizard Shazam there really isn't anyone that can stop the spirit of the wrath of God. The Spectre possess Divine mystical powers. Which can make him near omnipotent over other beings. Even with Silver Surfer in a triple team match The Spectre is just far too powerful.

Well I assume he says it because etheir the Titans or Batman has files that back it up. It's a valid scan and a vaild canon statement.

galan7777777
Originally posted by [email protected]
Well I assume he says it because etheir the Titans or Batman has files that back it up. It's a valid scan and a vaild canon statement. its not valid untill it is actually shown that they are anywhere near Spectre's level

galan7777777
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
You guys should really stop making vs. The Spectre matches. Aside from the Wizard Shazam there really isn't anyone that can stop the spirit of the wrath of God. The Spectre possess Divine mystical powers. Which can make him near omnipotent over other beings. Even with Silver Surfer in a triple team match The Spectre is just far too powerful. Exactly

Well its a canon scan, and it's my thread and I make the rules of the fight. So I say it's a valid scan.

And many times in Day of Vengance they came close to beating him.

And I never said they have to kill him. Beat him or drive him off is what Im looking for here.

galan7777777
Originally posted by [email protected]
Well its a canon scan, and it's my thread and I make the rules of the fight. So I say it's a valid scan. sorry thats not how it works wink

Originally posted by [email protected]
And many times in Day of Vengance they came close to beating him. "coming close" to beating him isnt beating him

Originally posted by [email protected]
And I never said they have to kill him. Beat him or drive him off is what Im looking for here. and how will they do this?

edited below

Yes it does work that way. I make the thread I control the conditions of the battle. I could say the fight takes place in The realms of Choas where their powers are increased ten-fold for example.

But yes, It is a valid scan from a valid canon issue and it's not my fault ou don't like what it says. Like I said he obviously made that statement because etheir the Titans or Batman has files that back it up. We haven't seen enough of them yet to gauge their abilities on feats. So we go with statements.

galan7777777
Originally posted by [email protected]
Yes it does work that way. I could say the fight takes place in the realm of Chaos.

But yes, I can say that scan is valid since it appears in a canon comic. Show me a statement that says otherwise. We have not seen enough of the Lords of Chaos to judge them on feats, so we go with statements assuming they have done something off panel to earn that statement. WOW, do you really want to go by statements when we are talking about Spectre? if so then he is much more impressive then the duo...... we cant go strictly by whats "stated" on pannel.... Prof X could say that he is faster then the flash, but does that make it true?

Tim Drake is the next best thing to Batman and has never been shown to make outragous unsupported statements. He has read all the files in both Batman's and the Titan's and probably the JLA's files.

I think he is fit to judge. He has seen the Spectre's power before in Day of judgement and He wouldn't say that if he didn't think it was true.

galan7777777
Originally posted by [email protected]
Tim Drake is the next best thing to Batman and has never been shown to make outragous unsupported statements. He has read all the files in both Batman's and the Titan's and probably the JLA's files.

I think he is fit to judge. He has seen the Spectre's power before in Day of judgement and He wouldn't say that if he didn't think it was true. but do you understands that Spectre is as powerful as he needs to be?

WrathfulDwarf
Keep in mind the events from Days of Vengeance which is also a canon. When The Spectre killed Nabu only Divine intervation from The Presence was the ultimate power that stopped the spirit of vengeance. Anything else couldn't have stop him.

He is not unbeatable. And I believe in Day of Vengance he was driven off at least once. Im not saying they are goign to kill him. And where does it say he can become as powerfull as he wants? This I gotta see.

galan7777777
Originally posted by [email protected]
He is not unbeatable. And I believe in Day of Vengance he was driven off at least once. Im not saying they are goign to kill him. And where does it say he can become as powerfull as he wants? This I gotta see. he gets his power from the logos..... if Spectre needs power, this is where it comes from

WrathfulDwarf
Again, only The Presence is the ultimate divine power that can stop The Spectre. For a being such as The Spectre to be able to destroy all magic in the Universe warrants the fact he can become as powerful as he desires. But only The Presence could block it.

Originally posted by [email protected]


Spectre's power comes from magic.

LT's power is cosmic in nature.



Wrong, Spectre's powers are divine not magical. Big difference..that is why his powers overcame The Wizard's Shazam magic. Both Magic and Cosmic powers are an equal balance. But only Divine intervertaion can above the other two.

In day of vengence he couldn't be killed as long as Magic still remained in the world.

Still Robin wouldn't say that unless he knew it to be true. As I said he's not given to over stating.

galan7777777
Originally posted by [email protected]
In day of vengence he couldn't be killed as long as Magic still remained in the world.

Still Robin wouldn't say that unless he knew it to be true. As I said he's not given to over stating. i just think that you are greatly underestimating Spectre.....do you understand that Spectre cant really be beaten by anyone other then the presence?

I dissagree, in Day of Judgement they used the Spear of Destiny and that hurt him allot.

In Day of Vengance they drove him off at least once and came close to beating him. and they werent even as powerful as the Lord of Chaos on their own.

I think the combined might together of the Lords of Chaos and Order could drive him off or make him reconsider the fight.

galan7777777
Originally posted by [email protected]
I dissagree, in Day of Judgement they used the Spear of Destiny and that hurt him allot. this artifact should not even be brought up, because the duo will not possess it in this fight, hence this argument is not valid

Originally posted by [email protected]
In Day of Vengance they drove him off at least once and came close to beating him. and they werent even as powerful as the Lord of Chaos on their own.again they DIDN'T beat him, we cant assume that the duo could, they have no feats that would warrant such a statement

Originally posted by [email protected]
I think the combined might together of the Lords of Chaos and Order could drive him off or make him reconsider the fight. Not if Spectre wanted to beat them wink

sexyking
Originally posted by [email protected]
Tim Drake is the next best thing to Batman and has never been shown to make outragous unsupported statements. He has read all the files in both Batman's and the Titan's and probably the JLA's files.

I think he is fit to judge. He has seen the Spectre's power before in Day of judgement and He wouldn't say that if he didn't think it was true.

Tim Drake cant comprehend guys like supermans power let alone the spectres, so i would say that comment is invalid. Second just because Tim Drake says it that doesn make it credible enough, how many times has superman been called the most powerful man in the universe i think we should take the comment slightly.Besides he might just have meant their powers were simliar to the spectres.

Sorry if you don't like the rules of my fight, you don't have to post in it.

That scan is canon and valid in this debate. Find me one that states different.

We are not just going on feats for this, cause the Lords of Order and Chaos don't have enough on panel to go by.

And show me a scan that proves he can just make himself as powerful as he wants.

galan7777777
Originally posted by [email protected]
We are not just going on feats for this, cause the Lords of Order and Chaos don't have enough on panel to go by. its this simple, if a character dosent have pannel feats we cant assume that they are powerful just becuase they say they are..... like i said Prof. X could "say" that he is faster then Flash, but would you believe this? NO because you need to see him do this before you can believe it

Originally posted by [email protected]
And show me a scan that proves he can just make himself as powerful as he wants. the logos is an infinite power source, name one time that Spectre has been outright beaten by anything other then the Presence

Originally posted by sexyking
Tim Drake cant comprehend guys like supermans power let alone the spectres, so i would say that comment is invalid. Second just because Tim Drake says it that doesn make it credible enough, how many times has superman been called the most powerful man in the universe i think we should take the comment slightly.Besides he might just have meant their powers were simliar to the spectres.

He said power-Level I believe, and Tim Drake is not given to overstatement. He has access to all the files and he is probably the most knowledgable person besides Batman to make that judgement.

It's different, it's not Tim Drake saying HE'S as powerful as the Spectre. He's making an objective statement about a 3rd party.

He has witnessed the Spectres power's before, he has read up on all the DCU characters. He's credible enough.

galan7777777
Originally posted by [email protected]
It's different, it's not Tim Drake saying HE'S as powerful as the Spectre. He's making an objective statement about a 3rd party.

He has witnessed the Spectres power's before, he has read up on all the DCU characters. He's credible enough. he may have witnessed a couple of feats that the Spectre has accomplished, but that hardly makes him credible enough to say that there powers are the same wink

He's also read all the files which cover all the Spectre's feats. Yes, he's credible.

Big Sexy
I know I'm being a D#ck but is SPectre gay? I mean eclipso is not exactly a woman. Can there be a gay spirit of vengeance stick out tongue

galan7777777
Originally posted by [email protected]
He's also read all the files whihc cover all the Spectre's feats. Yes, he's credible. you think "files" on spectre give drake the authority to compare his power to anyones?

Originally posted by galan7777777
you think "files" on spectre give drake the authority to compare his power to anyones?

And the fact that he's seen them first hand during Day of Judgement, yes I do. As I said the scan is valid.

galan7777777
Originally posted by [email protected]
And the fact that he's seen them first hand during Day of Judgement, yes I do. As I said the scan is valid. whatever you say man, i have never heard of a statment being regarded as fact when that character has yet to display the ammount of power discussed in the statement, but ive beaten this horse to death, and i dont really want to argue anymore frownwave

Well there isn't enough on panel stuff to go by for them, so we have to go by statements. And I do believe the character is credible.

Silas Burr
Originally posted by D-Block
Shazam is a Lord of Order he's not on Nabu's level though I have the comic when I get home I can quote where it says that he's one.


Shazam isn't a Lord of anything. For Shazam to be a Lord his entire backstory as well as Captain Marvel's, Black Adam's, Marvel Jr., and Ms.Marvel's would have to be completely retconned and rewritten. Shazam is a human. Lords are not humans. Shazam is a child in relation to the Lords of Order and Chaos.



the logos is an infinite power source, name one time that Spectre has been outright beaten by anything other then the Presence

The Spectre's power is not infinite and he's been beaten a number of times. Keep in mind that the Spectre used to be a member of the JSA and has lost battles with them. The Spectre's power is very tricky. It's not static and it has no concrete set of rules about when and if it will work on someone.

Before the Crisis Dr.Fate(Kent Nelson) fought a completely unleashed Spectre and Dr.Fate split himself into 4 to combat him. The Spectre said not even he could divide his power by four and be able to match Dr.Fate's power. Here he is facing more than 4 Lords, so the math says he has a fair chance of losing. Especially if these Lords aren't limited by the bodies of their human hosts.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Silas Burr
Shazam is not a Lord of Order.

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/4419/dovsyo7.th.png

kevdude
Originally posted by jrodslam
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/4419/dovsyo7.th.png

Nice job jrodslam thumb up . From the other scan it seemed like Shazam wasn't a Lord of Order, but this clearly says he is, er was...

jrodslam
Thanks. big grin

Silas Burr
Originally posted by jrodslam


Whatever type of file that is it's not loading for me. But either way Shazam is not a lord of Order.

-The Lords of Order are the first beings created in the universe. They're not corporeal beings, the're pure energy.

-Shazam is just a man.

-A Lord of Order wouldn't have to pray to get powers, they'd already have some. Nor would a lord of Order be born as a kid and have to grow up.

-Shazam is merely a wizard with powers like Captain Marvel.

Shazam is nothing like a lord of Order. They're totally different classes of being.

Validus
Originally posted by Silas Burr
Whatever type of file that is it's not loading for me. But either way Shazam is not a lord of Order.

Seems Nabu disagrees.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/superdante/dovsyo7.png

draxx_tOfU
Originally posted by [email protected]
I think together they have enough power to perhaps imprison him or at least drive him off. And Spectre and LT are not exactly the same.

Spectre's power comes from magic.

LT's power is cosmic in nature.

Sorry, according to the scan the Lords of Chaos together are equal to the Spectre. I think that added with the Lords of Order can do the job nicely.

no comparison indeed....

LT wouldnt have any trouble stamping out magic in just ONE earth....

i.e. the spectre eventually won against a magically amped captain marvel after a long fight, LT would have no trouble against say, thor amped by the odinforce and whatever.... wink evil face

Juntai
Originally posted by Silas Burr
Shazam isn't a Lord of anything. For Shazam to be a Lord his entire backstory as well as Captain Marvel's, Black Adam's, Marvel Jr., and Ms.Marvel's would have to be completely retconned and rewritten. Shazam is a human. Lords are not humans. Shazam is a child in relation to the Lords of Order and Chaos.



the logos is an infinite power source, name one time that Spectre has been outright beaten by anything other then the Presence

The Spectre's power is not infinite and he's been beaten a number of times. Keep in mind that the Spectre used to be a member of the JSA and has lost battles with them. The Spectre's power is very tricky. It's not static and it has no concrete set of rules about when and if it will work on someone.

Before the Crisis Dr.Fate(Kent Nelson) fought a completely unleashed Spectre and Dr.Fate split himself into 4 to combat him. The Spectre said not even he could divide his power by four and be able to match Dr.Fate's power. Here he is facing more than 4 Lords, so the math says he has a fair chance of losing. Especially if these Lords aren't limited by the bodies of their human hosts. Spectre has faced retcons since then and is far more powerful than his 1950's version. Spectre has defeated Nabu and Dr Fate multiple times each.

Big Sexy
Originally posted by Juntai
The Spectre's power is not infinite and he's been beaten a number of times. Keep in mind that the Spectre used to be a member of the JSA and has lost battles with them. The Spectre's power is very tricky. It's not static and it has no concrete set of rules about when and if it will work on someone.

Before the Crisis Dr.Fate(Kent Nelson) fought a completely unleashed Spectre and Dr.Fate split himself into 4 to combat him. The Spectre said not even he could divide his power by four and be able to match Dr.Fate's power. Here he is facing more than 4 Lords, so the math says he has a fair chance of losing. Especially if these Lords aren't limited by the bodies of their human hosts. Spectre has faced retcons since then and is far more powerful than his 1950's version. Spectre has defeated Nabu and Dr Fate multiple times each. Spectre is awesome. One of my favorite issue is the Halloween story where Satanus is being tracked by Spectre and begs Superman for help. My favorite line was
Satanus: "Superman, help me"
Superman " I'll see if I can put in a good word".
Satanus: "GOOD WORD?! He's coming to annihilate me .

Juntai
Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
no comparison indeed....

LT wouldnt have any trouble stamping out magic in just ONE earth....

i.e. the spectre eventually won against a magically amped captain marvel after a long fight, LT would have no trouble against say, thor amped by the odinforce and whatever.... wink evil face Yet, at the height of his power, he's been shown capable of restarting universes/multiverses and holding creation in his hand.

And about Captain Marvel, he was amped on MUCH higher of a level than Odinforce would do for Thor. He had entire pantheons and races, a tons of high end magic users, Phantom Stranger, the Lords of Order and Chaos... all dumping power into him. And even regular people.

And even then, in Day of Vengence special, Nabu believed Spectre hadn't even begun trying yet. He had wondered why Spectre didn't just destroy them all outright.

draxx_tOfU
dont take me too seriously man....

how come though he wasnt able to kill phantom stranger?

i believe phantom stranger said something to this effect," i doubt even YOU could kill me" to spectre.......

Juntai
Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
dont take me too seriously man....

how come though he wasnt able to kill phantom stranger?

i believe phantom stranger said something to this effect," i doubt even YOU could kill me" to spectre....... DC plays to the mysticism of Phantom Stranger and love him as a plot device. Noone knows his history, no one knows how powerful he is, or his source of power.

If you've ever read the tbp for volume 1 of Sandman, they talk about how Niel Gaiman originally wanted to flesh out The Phantom Stranger, but they wouldn't let him because of how they love the role he plays in the DCU as is.

In either regard, he turned him into a mouse and left him for dead. Seems like a win to me.

draxx_tOfU
and if he was restarting universes at THE HEIGHT of his power, thats just LT on a tuesday....

and despite, all the magic being poured to C Marvel, still, its just one world, one out of billions in a universe, and C. marvel was ACTUALLY getting the better hand at some point. although the spectre won, it wasnt easy, it was a long, grueling fight, a fight which showed his vulnerability...

what would happen if C Marvels amped magic was able to sustain him for say, 30 more minutes in the fight with spectre?

draxx_tOfU
Originally posted by Juntai
DC plays to the mysticism of Phantom Stranger and love him as a plot device. Noone knows his history, no one knows how powerful he is, or his source of power.

If you've ever read the tbp for volume 1 of Sandman, they talk about how Niel Gaiman originally wanted to flesh out The Phantom Stranger, but they wouldn't let him because of how they love the role he plays in the DCU as is.

In either regard, he turned him into a mouse and left him for dead. Seems like a win to me.

ok....

dont get me wrong, i like the spectre, actually more than LT (boring), but after seeing the fight with C. Marvel just got me thinking....

Juntai
Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
and if he was restarting universes at THE HEIGHT of his power, thats just LT on a tuesday....

and despite, all the magic being poured to C Marvel, still, its just one world, one out of billions in a universe, and C. marvel was ACTUALLY getting the better hand at some point. although the spectre won, it wasnt easy, it was a long, grueling fight, a fight which showed his vulnerability...

what would happen if C Marvels amped magic was able to sustain him for say, 30 more minutes in the fight with spectre? And LT reels and dissapears from a gun Reed Richards built. Or doesn't know if he can defeat Korvac, and is unsure of how he would measure up to the Infinity Gauntlet. See how the door swings both ways?

And restarting a universe wasn't the height of his power. That was just something I added, and you took the lowest feat out of a few I named and acted like I was claiming it was highest. See how you did that? His power caused the collapse and restarting of the multiverse in COIE, in Zero Hour he turned Damage into The Big Bang, in Emperor Joker, he and Mxy rebuilt the universe fixing all the damage Joker had caused. In issue 27 of Volume 4, he was holding all creations and affecting all times, realities, and plains of existance, and leading all souls within them on the paths they must take... being not limited to "One small vision of reality". In his own words.

What would have happened if he turned off the power of Shazam like he did later to Captain Marvel, or did to Black Adam in the JSA:Black Vengence tie ins. Or built a universe and trapped him in it, like he did to Stigmonus, or sent him spiraling to the end of time, orr.....?

Silas Burr
Originally posted by Validus
Seems Nabu disagrees.

Or the writer simply made a mistake. Either A)Shazam is not a lord of Order, as every story shows he's not. Or B)the entire backstory of Shazam, most of the backstories of Captain Marvel, Black Adam, Ms.Marvel, and Marvel Jr., as well as %99.99 of Shazam's appearences were all completely retconned in a single throwaway line for no apparent reason whatsoever.





Who said anything about the 50s? The Spectre was beaten in the JSA again just a few years ago. And yes, the Spectre has defeated Nabu and Dr.Fate numerous times and would defeat either again. But this isn't Spectre vs. Dr.Fate or Nabu. It's the Spectre vs. Nabu and many other lords at the same time.

draxx_tOfU
Originally posted by Juntai
And LT reels and dissapears from a gun Reed Richards built. Or doesn't know if he can defeat Korvac, and is unsure of how he would measure up to the Infinity Gauntlet. See how the door swings both ways?

And restarting a universe wasn't the height of his power. That was just something I added, and you took the lowest feat out of a few I named and acted like I was claiming it was highest. See how you did that? His power caused the collapse and restarting of the multiverse in COIE, in Zero Hour he turned Damage into The Big Bang, in Emperor Joker, he and Mxy rebuilt the universe fixing all the damage Joker had caused. In issue 27 of Volume 4, he was holding all creations and affecting all times, realities, and plains of existance, and leading all souls within them on the paths they must take... being not limited to "One small vision of reality". In his own words.

What would have happened if he turned off the power of Shazam like he did later to Captain Marvel, or did to Black Adam in the JSA:Black Vengence tie ins. Or built a universe and trapped him in it, like he did to Stigmonus, or sent him spiraling to the end of time, orr.....?


but....

that was what you said....that at the height of his power, he was restarting the universe....you said that ALONG SIDE holding creation in his hands....not me, you....

anyway, thats what he shouldve done in the first place in budapest, turn C Marvel's power off....

guy222
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