Wonder Woman vs. Captain Marvel

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nvrbeenwthagirl
Bloodlust is on.

They have to fight till the death.

She has her standard Weapons, Vambraces, Sword, Lasso

Fight takes place in the Rocky Mountains.

They have 3 minutes prep.

This is DC Cap.

galan7777777
cap marvel (marvel) or cap marvel (DC)?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by galan7777777
cap marvel (marvel) or cap marvel (DC)?

Edited for clarification.

UniOmni
Didn't i do this thread before, only with BA?? Same results most likely.

galan7777777
cap marv ftw

Validus
Originally posted by UniOmni
Didn't i do this thread before, only with BA?? Same results most likely.
He isn't going to be happy until the forum agrees that WW beats Cap.

UniOmni
She can beat Cap, imo. She just needs some of her weapons to do so.

Her skill nets her some wins, but without her equipment, he's physically more powerful, and faster imo. And durable.

She wins a few with her equipment. Loses badly(imo!!) without it.

Soljer
Originally posted by Validus
He isn't going to be happy until the forum agrees that WW beats Cap.

And Black Adam.

And Superman

And Thor.

And Zoom.

And Flash.

And the Surfer.

roll eyes (sarcastic)

UniOmni
I think he knows WW can't beat Superman and Surfer and Thor for a majority. The Shazams, however are a diff story.

db_renji
WW has more experience, but that is the only area where she gets this. Cap is stronger, faster, smarter, and just cut and dry better.

Cap. Marvel 7/10. Nuff Said

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by UniOmni
Didn't i do this thread before, only with BA?? Same results most likely.

BA and Cap are entirely diffent creatures. BA is ruthless and a much better fighter than cap. And it doesn't matter if the forum agrees or not. There are many forums out there who think WW can beat Thor. So where this forum might NOT recognize WW for who she is, others do. I"m not going to die till you guys give her her credit. I just made a thread to be discussed. No one has really presented a valid reason why Cap would win over someone who is his equal in strength, and speed, and is a better fighter.

http://www.electricferret.com/fights/issue_160.htm

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by db_renji
WW has more experience, but that is the only area where she gets this. Cap is stronger, faster, smarter, and just cut and dry better.

Cap. Marvel 7/10. Nuff Said

Stroner? Prove it. Faster? Prove it again. They draw from the same god for speed. Actually diana's god is the original. Cap's is a copy god. Smarter? The wisdom of solomon vs. the Wisdom of Athena? You might want to rethink that one. A little boy vs. someone who has been a goddess.

Silas Burr
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
BA and Cap are entirely diffent creatures. BA is ruthless and a much better fighter than cap.

Black Adam is also stronger than Captain Marvel. Although I think both beat Wonder Woman.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Silas Burr
Black Adam is also stronger than Captain Marvel. Although I think both beat Wonder Woman.

Has either of them ever Hurt Superman Like Diana has? Has either of them taken the kind of punishment from Superman that Diana has? What exactly puts them over her in a fight? Strength? So just how much stronger do you suppose they are than her? Considerable? How come batman has Diana and Superman rated the same in strength? Speed? Same thing. Now he did give Superman one up on Flight Speed, but not in physical Speed.

olympian
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
WW is Superman's match becuz she is made for Uber Defense. Cap is not. WW can't match Superman's Dmg output becuz Superman has more offensive power. But she's his match in a one on one becuz she matches him strength wise, she matches his offense with defense, and she is far more skilled, giving her the ummph she needs to make the match even. SO maybe you should go look up another joke.

A copy cat that Diana couldnt outspeed and that beated the Flash in a race. And that also went toe to toe with Hermes.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by olympian
A copy cat that Diana couldnt outspeed and that beated the Flash in a race. And that also went toe to toe with Hermes.

HUh? what does the reply have to do with that post? And in what reference are you talking about?

olympian
My mistake here. The post i wanted to answer was this one:


Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Stroner? Prove it. Faster? Prove it again. They draw from the same god for speed. Actually diana's god is the original. Cap's is a copy god. Smarter? The wisdom of solomon vs. the Wisdom of Athena? You might want to rethink that one. A little boy vs. someone who has been a goddess.

It has to do with your implication that since Diana had been given the speed of the "original" she was better than someone who had it from a "copycat".

The references belong to the "War of the Gods" series of Perez.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by olympian
My mistake here. The post i wanted to answer was this one:




It has to dop with your implication that since Diana had been given the speed of the "original" she was better than someone who had it from a "copycat".

The references belong to the "War of the Gods" series of Perez.

I have to pull out that Comic. it's buried somewhere. But I remember that even before she got her byrne massive power up, she was stalemating captain marvel back then. Am I correct in this?

olympian
Its in the link i gave you earlier.

Draco69
I personally think WW would net most of the wins. They're even in strength, speed and durability (blunt-trama wise that is) but Diana has three major edges:

Skill. Batson fights like a brick. A child brick. The Wisdom of Solomon can't (no pun intended) match WW's pure MA skills. She's far more the tactician than Billy whose immaturity is a downside.

Magical resistance. They both have this trait. However Diana's rather immune to Billy's magical attacks. He can attack her with Zeus' lightening all he wants. Diana's withstood and buffered lightening from Zeus himself. No comparision. Cap's edge over Superman doesn't apply to WW.

Weapons. Diana carries several normally. The tiara won't be a major factor unless Diana manages to decaptitate him with it. The invisible plane will be useful for extra defense and invisibility. What really nets her the majority of the wins is her lasso. The Lasso of Truth reverts anything to it's true form and forces people to speak what she desires as long as it's truth.

A quick win for Diana is just to lasso his ass and make him speak the word "Shazam" and it's all over.

Draco69
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I have to pull out that Comic. it's buried somewhere. But I remember that even before she got her byrne massive power up, she was stalemating captain marvel back then. Am I correct in this?

She stalemated him until he was distracted by Hermes in which she used the lasso to make him come to his senses.

Validus
How do you think she does without her lasso?

Draco69
Originally posted by Validus
How do you think she does without her lasso?

Without her lasso, it would certainly be more difficult. To me, it's not like Superman vs. Wonder Woman where Superman has a myriad of powers like heat vision and ice breath that will net him the majority of wins. It's basically a Superman with magical lightening vs. Wonder Woman. Unfortunately, unlike Superman, Cap's edge in magic is pretty damn useless against Diana due to her nigh magical resistance and her bracelets.

Caps' childlike mind against an Amazon warrior with millineia of combat experience just rings in favor of Diana in my mind.

Cap may be a little stronger and a little tougher but I believe Diana's skill and myriad of equipment will net her the majority of wins.

Validus
Superman's heat vision and artic breath never mean anything in a fight. Artic breath is especially useless.

I've already said I think WW can win with her weapons. It's without them where I said it's Cap's game to lose. Too durable, too strong.

Draco69
Originally posted by Validus
Superman's heat vision and artic breath never mean anything in a fight. Artic breath is especially useless.

no expression

It will slow her down a bit. And having your eyeballs frozen isn't gonna help your vision either....

Originally posted by Validus
I've already said I think WW can win with her weapons. It's without them where I said it's Cap's game to lose. Too durable, too strong.

You make it seem like Cap is leagues above her in strength like the Hulk to Ms. Marvel. They're comparitively even in strength. They get their speed from the same god. Cap has a slight edge in durability but it's nothing Diana has encountered before fighting the gods she's faced. Cap would just batter away like a brick, punching anything he sees. Diana is far more tactical and would attack at weak points like his eyes, his balls, and his throat. She's pretty damn nasty when she fights in bloodlust...

Validus
Originally posted by Draco69
no expression

It will slow her down a bit. And having your eyeballs frozen isn't gonna help your vision either....
Being frozen solid stopped her for what? A panel? It's always been a useless attack against anyone in the top tier. That's a fact unless Loeb is writing. Then it takes down Green Lantern.


Originally posted by Draco69
You make it seem like Cap is leagues above her in strength like the Hulk to Ms. Marvel. They're comparitively even in strength.
He's strong enough to make a difference. That's all I said.

Originally posted by Draco69
hey get their speed from the same god.
Neither of them that many speed feats. It's likely even though Marvel has looked good against the Flash.

Originally posted by Draco69
Cap has a slight edge in durability but it's nothing Diana has encountered before fighting the gods she's faced.
That's ABC logic. If Diana did as well against top tier bricks as she did those Gods, she could beat Superman for the majority. We both know she can't.

Originally posted by Draco69
Cap would just batter away like a brick, punching anything he sees. Diana is far more tactical and would attack at weak points like his eyes, his balls, and his throat. She's pretty damn nasty when she fights in bloodlust...
Yeah, her skills net some wins. Never said differently.

Avalonofthewind
Originally posted by Validus
Superman's heat vision and artic breath never mean anything in a fight. Artic breath is especially useless.

He's used it effectively quite often. If he used those abilities to their full extent, most fights would be over as quickly as they began.


Originally posted by Validus
I've already said I think WW can win with her weapons. It's without them where I said it's Cap's game to lose. Too durable, too strong.

Agreed. Cap is the only other character who's taken a tesseract (probably spelled wrong) bomb and although hurt by it, survived. He's a top tier brick.

jrodslam
I do agree with Draco that WW has much better fighting skills than Cap and he fights like a brick. Id give Cap the edge in strength though, but it may be dampened due to WW's fighting ability enableing her to dodge hits. Speed is comparable, but i think its Billys superior durability that would put him over the edge for a defeat on WW.

Edit: Id also like to say that eventhough he fights lieka brick against bricks, knowing that shed be more tactical, im sure hed use Solomos wisdom to a much better extent.

batdude123
Originally posted by Draco69
no expression

It will slow her down a bit. And having your eyeballs frozen isn't gonna help your vision either....

You damn right it would slow her down. If Superman would've continued to trounce on Diana after this, then Superman would've smashed her. Instead, he just went over to pick up a rock. no expression

batdude123
Originally posted by batdude123
You damn right it would slow her down. If Superman would've continued to trounce on Diana after this, then Superman would've smashed her. Instead, he just went over to pick up a rock. no expression

Draco69
Originally posted by Validus
Being frozen solid stopped her for what? A panel? It's always been a useless attack against anyone in the top tier. That's a fact unless Loeb is writing. Then it takes down Green Lantern.

Damn Loeb....

A batline can also apparently take out Black Lightening.

God help the Ultimates when takes over....



Originally posted by Validus
He's strong enough to make a difference. That's all I said.

A slight difference if (and I doubt it) he's stronger than she is. It's like a man who can lift 100 pounds versus a man who can lift 103 pounds. It's too close to really make any difference worth mentioning


Originally posted by Validus
Neither of them that many speed feats. It's likely even though Marvel has looked good against the Flash.


Besides Justice (which isn't remotely in continuity) Marvel has looked good against the Flash in some comics while Diana looked good with Jesse Quick when she managed to breach the door to the Speed Force.

Again, they get their speed from the same god so..


Originally posted by Validus
That's ABC logic. If Diana did as well against top tier bricks as she did those Gods, she could beat Superman for the majority.

Again, her resistance to magic is key to her go up against the god and winning against CM. Superman's myriad of powers will more often than not prove a little to much for Diana. Particularly heat vision + freeze breath + a flurry of speedblitz blows...at the same time.

What's really ABC Logic is:

Captain Marvel > Superman

Superman > Wonder Woman

=

Captain Marvel > Wonder Woman

Which is what everyone is thinking without ever really thinking about it...


Originally posted by Validus
Yeah, her skills net some wins. Never said differently.

Billy is powerful. But he sucks at fighting. He's used to just cannonballing everything he comes across. Diana will prove unlike any other opponent he's faced.

Silas Burr
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Has either of them ever Hurt Superman Like Diana has? Has either of them taken the kind of punishment from Superman that Diana has?

Yes. And both can can withstand being grabbed by Superman without having their wrists broken.




As much so as Superman in Marvel's case. Moreso in Black Adam's. For Marvel I give him the win because I think he's physically superior to her in every way. I think it would be a very good fight though. But Black Adam I think would punish her.




Probably because the rankings were so broad they both fit in the same top one. Like how Thor and Kurse are both in the same Marvel Class 100 when Kurse is over 2 times Thor's strength.

Draco69
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind




Agreed. Cap is the only other character who's taken a tesseract (probably spelled wrong) bomb and although hurt by it, survived. He's a top tier brick.

The tesseract bomb turns someone inside out for a split-second causing tremendous pain. It didn't appear to be a lethal weapon against them unless it turned them inside out permenantly. It's speculation to assume that anyone else could have survived with any ill effect other than his hearsay.

Draco69
Originally posted by jrodslam
I do agree with Draco that WW has much better fighting skills than Cap and he fights like a brick. Id give Cap the edge in strength though, but it may be dampened due to WW's fighting ability enableing her to dodge hits. Speed is comparable, but i think its Billys superior durability that would put him over the edge for a defeat on WW.

You make it seem like her blows aren't going to do much. WW's durability is comparatively even to Superman or Captain Marvel in regardance to blunt force trauma. Which is exactly what Cap's assault will be.

Her blows will hurt him as much as it will hurt her.

I don't understand how Diana has numerous edges in fighting ability, tactical prowess, and experience but Cap's supposed edge in durability is what nets him the majority of wins?

Huh?

IOriginally posted by jrodslam
d also like to say that eventhough he fights lieka brick against bricks, knowing that shed be more tactical, im sure hed use Solomos wisdom to a much better extent.

The Wisdom of Solomon doesn't grant Billy fighting skills. It grants him moral intiution and guidance during crucial moments. It doesn't grant him complicated tactical scenarios to use against Diana.

And Diana can use the Wisdom of Athena in conjunction with the Eyes of Pallas which gives her semi-cosmic awareness as long as she looks at her object of focus.

A goddess of wisdom always thrumps some Jewish king who tricked two hags with a bluff....

Draco69
It just kinda annoys me when people say that Captain America will win against a person superior in every physical aspect due to his fighting prowess but Diana can't in the same scenario....

jrodslam
Originally posted by Draco69
You make it seem like her blows aren't going to do much. WW's durability is comparatively even to Superman or Captain Marvel in regardance to blunt force trauma. Which is exactly what Cap's assault will be.

Her blows will hurt him as much as it will hurt her.

I don't understand how Diana has numerous edges in fighting ability, tactical prowess, and experience but Cap's supposed edge in durability is what nets him the majority of wins?

Huh?

How was i making it seem as if her blows wouldnt do much? I personally think Cap is more durable than Supes and Supes more durable than her. Because of the durability and strength edge imo, i think shed be hurt moreso than Cap would.

Originally posted by Draco69
The Wisdom of Solomon doesn't grant Billy fighting skills. It grants him moral intiution and guidance during crucial moments. It doesn't grant him complicated tactical scenarios to use against Diana.

And Diana can use the Wisdom of Athena in conjunction with the Eyes of Pallas which gives her semi-cosmic awareness as long as she looks at her object of focus.

I didnt say that Solomos wisdom would give him fighting skills. I mentioned that hed fight more tactical. He wouldnt just rush in and try to pound her out. Youre right, Solomos wisdom does grant Billy intuition and guidance and i think hed use that. It doesnt only have to be in crucial moments. You misunderstood my point.

Validus
Cap rams his index finger into WW at light speed. Diana is fubar.

jrodslam
And im not saying Wonder Woman cant win at all. Im just saying Marvel would win the majority imo.

Avalonofthewind
Originally posted by Draco69
The tesseract bomb turns someone inside out for a split-second causing tremendous pain. It didn't appear to be a lethal weapon against them unless it turned them inside out permenantly. It's speculation to assume that anyone else could have survived with any ill effect other than his hearsay.

He only survived it because of his magical invulnerability. It I remember correctly, he even stated it.

It wasn't just some "pain bomb."

Validus
Originally posted by Draco69
A slight difference if (and I doubt it) he's stronger than she is. It's like a man who can lift 100 pounds versus a man who can lift 103 pounds. It's too close to really make any difference worth mentioning
Yeah, see thats where we differ. I see Captain Marvel as Superman's equal in strength. Both of them are further above WW than a relative 3lbs.

Originally posted by Draco69
Besides Justice (which isn't remotely in continuity) Marvel has looked good against the Flash in some comics while Diana looked good with Jesse Quick when she managed to breach the door to the Speed Force.

Jesse's top speed is only .50c. I don't see how she can enter the speed force at all through conventional means.

Originally posted by Draco69
Again, they get their speed from the same god so..
Thats being retconned though.


Originally posted by Draco69
Again, her resistance to magic is key to her go up against the god and winning against CM. Superman's myriad of powers will more often than not prove a little to much for Diana. Particularly heat vision + freeze breath + a flurry of speedblitz blows...at the same time.

What's really ABC Logic is:

Captain Marvel > Superman

Superman > Wonder Woman

=

Captain Marvel > Wonder Woman

Which is what everyone is thinking without ever really thinking about it...
It's more like:

Captain Marvel = Superman

Superman > Wonder Woman

=

Captain Marvel > Wonder Woman

At least in my opinion.

Originally posted by Draco69
Billy is powerful. But he sucks at fighting. He's used to just cannonballing everything he comes across. Diana will prove unlike any other opponent he's faced.
I don't think she'd be too different than Black Adam.

Draco69
Originally posted by jrodslam
How was i making it seem as if her blows wouldnt do much? I personally think Cap is more durable than Supes and Supes more durable than her.

Cap is certainly more durable against magical attacks. However all three characters have taken insane damage before. Idon't see Cap being "above" Superman in durability. He's just more durable against certain attacks as is Superman against certain attacks.

Little known fact, Captain Marvel can be shifted back to his human state with a powerful electrical charge. Captain Nazi regularly used this nasty tactic against him.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Because of the durability and strength edge imo, i think shed be hurt moreso than Cap would.

Despite the fact she would dodge and parry the majority of his sloppy blows, strengthwise they're in the same ballpark. Do to editorial inconsistances there's no clear who's stronger. I'd like to think they're even as they been shown to be in War of Gods storyline.

Durability, Cap as a slight edge. But more of her blows will land than his to hers. And her blows are gonna be far more painful and lethal due to her skill. A triple roundhouse kick is gonna hurt more than a simple swipe or haymaker.



Originally posted by jrodslam
I didnt say that Solomos wisdom would give him fighting skills. I mentioned that hed fight more tactical. He wouldnt just rush in and try to pound her out. Youre right, Solomos wisdom does grant Billy intuition and guidance and i think hed use that. It doesnt only have to be in crucial moments. You misunderstood my point.

And you're misunderstand Solomon's Wisdom. Solomon gives him a kind of RPG guidance. Kinda like "Maybe we should go to the fiery mountaintop with this plain yellow key that may open something there...." THAT kind of wisdom. Solomon doesn't grant him more intelligence, or tactical prowess or even wisdom at that. It just grants him some guidance for crucial moments like what button to press when a nuclear weapon is about to go off.

Draco69
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
He only survived it because of his magical invulnerability. It I remember correctly, he even stated it.

It wasn't just some "pain bomb."

He specifically stated "I don't THINK anybody else could survive it" It's hearsay. If the terrasect bomb permanently turned CM inside out and his magical invulnerability somehow shifted him back than I would be impressed.

It doesn't seem anything Superman, Wonder Woman or Martian Manhunter couldn't have survived.

Draco69
Originally posted by Validus
Yeah, see thats where we differ. I see Captain Marvel as Superman's equal in strength. Both of them are further above WW than a relative 3lbs.

And I would disagree. They're all in the same ballpark that it really doesn't show too much of discernable difference.

I sincerely doubt Marvel's strength is dramatically stronger than WW when Zeus and Jupiter declared them equals in the War of the Gods storyline. Marvel was meant to be the champion of the Roman Gods and Diana was meant to be the champion of the Greek Gods.



Originally posted by Validus
Jesse's top speed is only .50c. I don't see how she can enter the speed force at all through conventional means.

Jesse Quick broke the barrier to the Speed Force out of sheer rage. She was chasing the villain believed to kill her father. It was kind of a one time thing for her. Diana however managed to catch up to even though Jesse was going at lightspeed or above.


Originally posted by Validus
Thats being retconned though.

Everything's being retconned. I would think this forum is immune to the retcons because they're ongoing and they don't make sense yet.

What's getting retconned by the way?

WW is so late I'm still unsure if she can still fly....




Originally posted by Validus
It's more like:

Captain Marvel = Superman

Superman > Wonder Woman

=

Captain Marvel > Wonder Woman

That's your presumption on strength which i disagree to some extent.

I ranked them to who would win a fight.

And Captain Marvel's alleged "superior" strength and slight edge in durability is going to do much against a person who's as strong as him, as fast as him and can take alot of his hits with the major exception being that Diana is far, far more experienced and skilled than him.

If we were discussing an anonymous Class 11 character with bulletproof durability with very poor fighting skills versus a Class 10 character with slightly bulletproof durability with thousands of years of experience and mastered numerous MAs, 99% of us would go with the latter person winning.

We all agreed that Princess Powerful would lose to Cap despite her enormous strength advantage and durability advantage because of her lack of fighting skills in comparision to Cap.

Some also argued that Spider-Man would beat Wonder-Girl because he was more experienced and skilled despite the fact that he was nowhere near her strength, speed and durability.

What happened here...?




Originally posted by Validus
I don't think she'd be too different than Black Adam.

Black Adam is like Namor. A frothing dog in combat who uses his skills solely for lethal purposes. Diana is cold, calculated and more importantly tactical in combat. Plus she's far more skilled.

Avalonofthewind
Originally posted by Draco69
He specifically stated "I don't THINK anybody else could survive it" It's hearsay. If the terrasect bomb permanently turned CM inside out and his magical invulnerability somehow shifted him back than I would be impressed.

It doesn't seem anything Superman, Wonder Woman or Martian Manhunter couldn't have survived.

It's quite an impressive feat. A tesseract bomb is nothing insignificant. I don't see Diana surviving something similar, or staying conscious through it if she did.

I know Superman can survive it with ease as he's already done so when tesseract energy was about to destroy earth.

Draco69
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
It's quite an impressive feat. A tesseract bomb is nothing insignificant. I don't see Diana surviving something similar, or staying conscious through it if she did.

I know Superman can survive it with ease as he's already done so when tesseract energy was about to destroy earth.

Diana could survive it. Everyone forget she has magical invulnerability too...? Her Gaea-bound healing factor would help as well.

However we don't know how far she was from Earth and for how long. Diana slowly (very; it takes months) but surely gets weaker when she's not in contact with the Earth.

The pain is debatable but she survived torture from Desaad, the God of Torture for nearly three hour so...

Avalonofthewind
Originally posted by Draco69
Diana could survive it. Everyone forget she has magical invulnerability too...? Her Gaea-bound healing factor would help as well.

However we don't know how far she was from Earth and for how long. Diana slowly (very; it takes months) but surely gets weaker when she's not in contact with the Earth.

The pain is debatable but she survived torture from Desaad, the God of Torture for nearly three hour so...

I don't think (or at least would hope) that nobody forgot her magical invulnerability. Do you think the she could survive being turned inside out like that or at least not be ko'd by the same thing?

The desaad example isn't that great considering batgod did it for a much longer amount of time and somehow managed to make desaad kill himself.

Validus
Agree to disagree Draco. I've more than had my fill of Shazam Vs Wonder Woman.

As for whats being retconned, it's their Gods being the same. Captain Marvel doesn't use the strength of Hercules anymore than he uses the strength of Doomsday. They're just names.

nvrbeenwthagirl
In almost every other battle in this forum, SOmeonw with greater skill wins the match. How is it then that CM who is not proven to be stronger than Diana, or Faster, all of sudden beating her? No one is giving good enough reasons.

Draco69
Originally posted by Validus
Agree to disagree Draco. I've more than had my fill of Shazam Vs Wonder Woman.

If nvrbeenwithagirl and Olympian stop bringing the nonsense up...


mad

Originally posted by Validus
As for whats being retconned, it's their Gods being the same. Captain Marvel doesn't use the strength of Hercules anymore than he uses the strength of Doomsday. They're just names.

Ah. So Shazam just gave him Superman-level strength out of nowhere. That's smart. It clears out the editorial consistency of "Diana has the strength of Gaea, greater than that of Hercules but she's weaker than CM who shares the strength of Hercules and Diana is second to Superman for some reason."

What the f**k?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I don't think (or at least would hope) that nobody forgot her magical invulnerability. Do you think the she could survive being turned inside out like that or at least not be ko'd by the same thing?

The desaad example isn't that great considering batgod did it for a much longer amount of time and somehow managed to make desaad kill himself.

Diana Survived Being Turned into nothingness by Medusa's own daughter decay. She can survive the tesseract bomb. As a matter of Fact, Diana survived a nuclear explosion that was meant to destroy more than a city with her bare body. She simply covered it up. So many people are discounting her and for what I just don't know.

Draco69
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I don't think (or at least would hope) that nobody forgot her magical invulnerability. Do you think the she could survive being turned inside out like that or at least not be ko'd by the same thing?

The desaad example isn't that great considering batgod did it for a much longer amount of time and somehow managed to make desaad kill himself.

Batgod and Batman are completely different people. Batgod kidnaps Batman so he can make other non-batpeople know their goddamned place...

smokin'

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Draco69
If nvrbeenwithagirl and Olympian stop bringing the nonsense up...


mad



Ah. So Shazam just gave him Superman-level strength out of nowhere. That's smart. It clears out the editorial consistency of "Diana has the strength of Gaea, greater than that of Hercules but she's weaker than CM who shares the strength of Hercules and Diana is second to Superman for some reason."

What the f**k?

What non sense did I bring up? Show me what I said that was non sense. I was the one who recalled that Diana stale mated CM in war of the gods. was that non sense? Or are you just jumping on the band wagon with every one else who chooses to say I'm talking non sense without ever even reading what i'm saying. I've said the same things ur saying. ANd I have brough up very real occurances and valid questions. Like when has captain marvel ever hurt superman as badly as diana? Geez. Thanks for being just like every one else.

Avalonofthewind
Originally posted by Draco69
Batgod and Batman are completely different people. Batgod kidnaps Batman so he can make other non-batpeople know their goddamned place...

smokin'

Drats! Foiled again! devil

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
What non sense did I bring up? Show me what I said that was non sense. I was the one who recalled that Diana stale mated CM in war of the gods. was that non sense? Or are you just jumping on the band wagon with every one else who chooses to say I'm talking non sense without ever even reading what i'm saying. I've said the same things ur saying. ANd I have brough up very real occurances and valid questions. Like when has captain marvel ever hurt superman as badly as diana? Geez. Thanks for being just like every one else.

mad I'm still waiting for the non sense that I was talking to be pointed out.

olympian
Originally posted by Draco69
If nvrbeenwithagirl and Olympian stop bringing the nonsense up...


mad



Ah. So Shazam just gave him Superman-level strength out of nowhere. That's smart. It clears out the editorial consistency of "Diana has the strength of Gaea, greater than that of Hercules but she's weaker than CM who shares the strength of Hercules and Diana is second to Superman for some reason."

What the f**k?

Oh pardon sir. My nonsense isent any different than any other, especially when i was out already of this debate for more than a page big grin

And for the last bit. Sure seems that way.

olympian
And yes Draco. The other one is resting now as well.

You are at peace.

Jimmy-Chan
I think the "God power" thing isn't a big deal at all. The way I see it, they each have a portion of each God's power for the most part, rather than the full thing. Making the "which God gives you your power" thing irrelevent.

(For the record, though, it's been shown on-panel that CM can combine Solomon's strength with Hercules', and possibly amp himself with the Power of Zeus as well)

Milkie
Originally posted by UniOmni
I think he knows WW can't beat Superman and Surfer and Thor for a majority. The Shazams, however are a diff story.

Why are they different?

AND she can't beat Superman who might be the lowest on that list... wow...

Milkie
Also

Draco69 show us this so called Captain Marvel that fights as if he is Bizarro.

D-Block
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
BA and Cap are entirely diffent creatures. BA is ruthless and a much better fighter than cap. And it doesn't matter if the forum agrees or not. There are many forums out there who think WW can beat Thor. So where this forum might NOT recognize WW for who she is, others do. I"m not going to die till you guys give her her credit. I just made a thread to be discussed. No one has really presented a valid reason why Cap would win over someone who is his equal in strength, and speed, and is a better fighter.

http://www.electricferret.com/fights/issue_160.htm

She's not his equal in strength or speed.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by D-Block
She's not his equal in strength or speed.

Prove it.

War of the Gods showns them as equals. And she wasn't shown nearly as strong as she has of late.

Zeus and Jupiter agreed that they were equal. are you questioning the god's that gave them both thier powers?

newyorkcares
Good fight. I donno about stronger,there pretty darn close as far as strength, mental prowess, but caps got it as far as durability goes. Still, i think WW,being that she's the direct result of the gods machinations, might be able to call in a favor and calldown some lightning,the majickal type. If she can out speed cap(she is probably faster)one ill-placed lightning strike is all it would take. Granted that cap hasn't already pummeled her senseless. WW could beat cap,Cap probably would beat WW.

Milkie
I'm still waiting

D-Block
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Prove it.

War of the Gods showns them as equals. And she wasn't shown nearly as strong as she has of late.

Zeus and Jupiter agreed that they were equal. are you questioning the god's that gave them both thier powers?

She's not superman's equal so she's not Captain Marvel's either. She maybe close but not equal

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by D-Block
She's not superman's equal so she's not Captain Marvel's either. She maybe close but not equal

Marvel isn't Superman's equal either. ANd she far far far exceeds CM in Skill.

D-Block
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Prove it.

War of the Gods showns them as equals. And she wasn't shown nearly as strong as she has of late.

Zeus and Jupiter agreed that they were equal. are you questioning the god's that gave them both thier powers?

Are you questioning DC comics who states CM and SM to be equal and SM to be WW superior?

D-Block
Originally posted by newyorkcares
Good fight. I donno about stronger,there pretty darn close as far as strength, mental prowess, but caps got it as far as durability goes. Still, i think WW,being that she's the direct result of the gods machinations, might be able to call in a favor and calldown some lightning,the majickal type. If she can out speed cap(she is probably faster)one ill-placed lightning strike is all it would take. Granted that cap hasn't already pummeled her senseless. WW could beat cap,Cap probably would beat WW.

Faster I doubt it

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by D-Block
Are you questioning DC comics who states CM and SM to be equal and SM to be WW superior?

DC comics also said that NO one was next to Superman But WW. so you tell me. It's called Editorial inconsistancies. Besides, marvel isn't as fast as superman and he doesn't have superman's offensive powers or superman's senses. WW has heightened senses and magical weapons that can kill CM out right.

D-Block
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Marvel isn't Superman's equal either. ANd she far far far exceeds CM in Skill.

In strenght and speed he is Superman's equal if not more. CM is more durable than supes IMO they have always been said to be equal and WW has be said to be under supes never his equal.

D-Block
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
DC comics also said that NO one was next to Superman But WW. so you tell me. It's called Editorial inconsistancies. Besides, marvel isn't as fast as superman and he doesn't have superman's offensive powers or superman's senses. WW has heightened senses and magical weapons that can kill CM out right.

How to you figure that CM isn't as fast as Supes we have no proof none that I know of , of them ever racing or one not being able to keep up with the other with both going allout. But they (CM and SM) have been said to be equal in strenght even Supes said it he also said in h2h CM has an advantage I'm not sure but has he ever said that about WW which should be the same since she is more skilled IMO.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by D-Block
In strenght and speed he is Superman's equal if not more. CM is more durable than supes IMO they have always been said to be equal and WW has be said to be under supes never his equal.

Her upper strength lvl has never been shown. Every time she has been shown to stress trying to lift something, superman has too. WW's reflexes are faster than Superman's and CM"s. She has blocked plenty of uber fast projectiles, mulitlples, while fighting. he can't be superman's equal in speed and she not when they draw speed from the same God's(kinda) Cap is not more durable than superman in the way your implyin.ne's durable against magic more than superman, but so is diana. not that it would do him any good against diana's weapons. Her stuff can kill God's. cap is NOT a god. Her durability is nearly as good as caps when it comes to blunt force trauma if not the same. She showed that when she crashed into the earth at light speed or faster. thry are so closely matched in every area that the only thing left is skill. And who do you think has gobs of that running out of her ass? Diana.

D-Block
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Her upper strength lvl has never been shown. Every time she has been shown to stress trying to lift something, superman has too. WW's reflexes are faster than Superman's and CM"s. She has blocked plenty of uber fast projectiles, mulitlples, while fighting. he can't be superman's equal in speed and she not when they draw speed from the same God's(kinda) Cap is not more durable than superman in the way your implyin.ne's durable against magic more than superman, but so is diana. not that it would do him any good against diana's weapons. Her stuff can kill God's. cap is NOT a god. Her durability is nearly as good as caps when it comes to blunt force trauma if not the same. She showed that when she crashed into the earth at light speed or faster. thry are so closely matched in every area that the only thing left is skill. And who do you think has gobs of that running out of her ass? Diana.

The power of Zeus is used for durability and he can be faster when they draw their speed from the same god but his is boosted by the power of Zeus because it also amps his other ability's. And WW is not as durable as CM I know she got shields but straight up durability she is not on CM level.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by D-Block
The power of Zeus is used for durability and he can be faster when they draw their speed from the same god but his is boosted by the power of Zeus because it also amps his other ability's. And WW is not as durable as CM I know she got shields but straight up durability she is not on CM level.

HMM. Ok. Let's see, when it comes to blunt force trauma, she's just as durable as CM is. What does he use to fight with? his hands. Blunt force trauma. If he even manges to land many punches. She's blocked faster than him. And she's superior in skill. far. He could break his knuckles hitting her bracelts too many times. She's the greek god's chosen daughter. Zeus isn't boosting Cm more than his own "daughter". and since when is zeus's power doing all of these things? durability and such. why not just use zeus to power cap and leave all the demi god's and human's out of it? As it stands, Diana is far far superior to cap in skill and so closely matched in every other area that cap cannot do anything but loose.

olympian
Zeus had nothing to do with powering WW.

In the only battles they had, WW calld CM higly skilled. (ironically)

"cannot to anything but lose" is so wrong i would suggest you even not to go there.

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by Draco69
I personally think WW would net most of the wins. They're even in strength, speed and durability (blunt-trama wise that is) but Diana has three major edges:

Skill. Batson fights like a brick. A child brick. The Wisdom of Solomon can't (no pun intended) match WW's pure MA skills. She's far more the tactician than Billy whose immaturity is a downside.

Magical resistance. They both have this trait. However Diana's rather immune to Billy's magical attacks. He can attack her with Zeus' lightening all he wants. Diana's withstood and buffered lightening from Zeus himself. No comparision. Cap's edge over Superman doesn't apply to WW.

Weapons. Diana carries several normally. The tiara won't be a major factor unless Diana manages to decaptitate him with it. The invisible plane will be useful for extra defense and invisibility. What really nets her the majority of the wins is her lasso. The Lasso of Truth reverts anything to it's true form and forces people to speak what she desires as long as it's truth.

A quick win for Diana is just to lasso his ass and make him speak the word "Shazam" and it's all over.

I think Billy has arguably better Durability than Supes. I mean she cant take Heat Vision like he can.

MattDay
captain marvel, is roughly supermans equal, and I meen "roughly".

What splits them apart with the obvious signs, superman has incredible senses, no need to describe them.

He has out performed captain marvel in circumstances that many heroes have stated only superman could do it.

His willpower is one of the highest in comics let alone DC.

I like captain marvel as he is another dynamic to DC, as he has had awesome fights with superman, the animated program took advantage of this in JLU.

But superman has always been left in the dark about where his powers just all of a sudden influx to levels knowone will admit, even me (supergeek) would admit... like when he just overpowered darksied, then took him to the sun before he knew what superman was doing, then pounded him senseless. Where the hell did that power come from?

When he turned the wheels of magghedon, okay? that feat is going at low level pc superman levels, but still pc superman levels, which is a great feat.

Taken all this into account captain marvel is something different again, a being powered by the gods, using their abilities as his own, superman is naturally, when under the rays of a yellow sun solar system, becomes god-like, with unknown levels of these powers... they are different, and are both great to read.

Now with wonder woman, a perfect woman created by the gods, to spread the gods will of truth and justice across the world ridden with evil.

Now she is very skilled, to not admit this is of the oddest rejections, she's have trouble with captain marvels strength when he catches her with a punch, swipe or jab, she'll feel it and he will not be as lenient as a certain super, but then again she could catch him with her weapons that are able to affect many powerful beings, i see this tipping in her favour 6/10, as they are both powerful heroes that will take everything before bowing out.

end of discussion on my part.

peace.

Supreme being
There aint no way marvel lossig to WW. CM took on the spectre in dov and that was before he got his power up so bam.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Supreme being
There aint no way marvel lossig to WW. CM took on the spectre in dov and that was before he got his power up so bam.

OMG U r so not serious are you? U haven't ever heard of PIS have you? WW could Knock The Spectre around with the GodWave if PIS were used as well. The Spectre Can't be beaten by any normal super hero joe schmo.

R.O.T. Yahman

olympian
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
OMG U r so not serious are you? U haven't ever heard of PIS have you? WW could Knock The Spectre around with the GodWave if PIS were used as well. The Spectre Can't be beaten by any normal super hero joe schmo.
Somehow if it was WW who had perform the said feat, i dont know if you would claim the same.....

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by olympian
Somehow if it was WW who had perform the said feat, i dont know if you would claim the same.....

I would, becuz even tho the God Wave could likely Knock the Spectre Back, or even Slow him down for a bit, He could obliterate her before she could call it up. Time doesn't even have meaning to the spectre, he even said that. he can beat you before you ever even start fighting. He could have killed CM while he slept as Billy Batson. It was horrible PIS. But it makes for a good story, so that is why it had to be written that way.

Supreme being
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
OMG U r so not serious are you? U haven't ever heard of PIS have you? WW could Knock The Spectre around with the GodWave if PIS were used as well. The Spectre Can't be beaten by any normal super hero joe schmo.

roll eyes (sarcastic) PIS or not it still happened meaning Cannon, i wont lie and say diana aint a bad ass she is but i really believe people underestimate cap and that pisses me of mad.

Milkie
...

batdude123
Billy once and for all pwns Diana and tells her to go make him a sandwhich. The end.

Accel
Diana spanks Marvel like the boy he is.

batdude123
Originally posted by Accel
Diana spanks Marvel like the boy he is.

But it backfires when Diana realizes that Batson is into that kind of kinky shit, and Billy then pwns her and tells her to make him a sandwhich. ermm

Validus
WW wins 8/10

batdude123
Originally posted by Validus
WW wins 8/10

She wins herself the privilege of making Batson a sandwich, yes.

Badabing
Marvel wins.

Validus
CM wins 8/10

Badabing
Do you guys really think Marvel would hit a woman?

Milkie
If he had too yes.

HandOfFate

Milkie
Um No

It's more then that
.
Do some research

HandOfFate
Originally posted by Milkie
Um No

It's more then that
.
Do some research

Really, why don't you educate me then.

Milkie
No Thanks

Capt.Whitebread
Well, I respect both Characters. I hate the fact that the writers make some of the olympian gods into villains or sexually asaulting the Amazons. If you want the truth, Wonder Woman is strong, she isn't as strong as the cartoon, justice League puts her. They even said in their season one DVD set that they didn't have the characters set to reflect their full powers and abilities- they wanted story over brawn.
With that said. Captain Marvel has several advantages over wonder Woman. Though, Gaea molded her, and magic gave her strength, and the girdle of Hephestus gives her added strength (original stories under John Byrne) the sandals of Hermes gave flight... She is certainly a strong and vigilant warrior/diplomat. With Captain Marvel, his weakness is not wanting to handle things through brute strength either, the diplomat from Solomon makes them compatable. But thats where things end. The Strength of Hercules, who could handle weight bearing/strength of Atlas, strongest of the Titans/Gods, Then the Stamina of Atlas, who could -per Crisis on Infinite Earths and Kingdom Come, could hold out fighting for days rahter than hours or minutes. Zeus has matchless power and Charisma as well as nearly indestructable (withstanding even Darkseid's attacks in the 80's), then the courage of Achilles, a great warrior of renown, even a lover of Hippolyta WW's mom. The Speed of Mercury, which blew past the Flash, even with the 'speed Force" See War of the God's where Hermes and Mercury are battling through the streets and the flash shows up, they saw him, and like the roadrunner blowing Coyote in the dust, they did that to the Flash. If Cap were to have to fight a pissed off Amazon, she would get in some good licks while he tries to resolve the battle, then if he realizes diplomacy doesn't work, or Zeus forbid, Cap ever get's pissed off, and doesn't hold back, there would be an badly beaten and bloodied Wonder Woman lying unconscious at his feet. He had learned to use/combine abilities to accomplish many feats, especially in taking out Superman. On the lighter side. I could see Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman realizing they are the last vestiges of the Olympian Gods. If they wanted to 'create' more Olympians of 'Godlike' levels, those two could be the new Zeus and Hera of Olympus. I'm not some obsessive compulsive kid who thinks Capt. Marvel is 'tha bomb', but he is a lot better than people gave him credit for. If they took the time to think it through.

batdude123
barker

psycho gundam
dat wal ov txt brokted mi ize *__*

ankur29
CM ftw

Raoul
Originally posted by Capt.Whitebread
Well, I respect both Characters. I hate the fact that the writers make some of the olympian gods into villains or sexually asaulting the Amazons. If you want the truth, Wonder Woman is strong, she isn't as strong as the cartoon, justice League puts her. They even said in their season one DVD set that they didn't have the characters set to reflect their full powers and abilities- they wanted story over brawn.

you're half right. no, the characters weren't at their normal levels, but they were weakened, not strengthened.

except hawkgirl... that mace did pretty much everything bar microwave dinner.

Capt.Whitebread
You are right. It was sad too. Though it was even more sad when the clash between Sups and Cap happened because Superman was such a jerk!!! I'm more the Green Lantern Fan from the Cartoon. But in the whole episode, Superman had his butt on his shoulders. Batman, who never gives compliments, bragged on Captain Marvel. and when Superman decided to not listen, already to ignite like 5 millions of gasoline after you drop a magnesium flare into the tank...Superman was more of a villain than anything. The plan worked well for Lex, just a little poke, and the 600 pound Kryptonian gorilla is on the rampage. Cap looked like twice the hero by even trying to negotiate and could have even been more of a help, but the combat destroyed the 'too fragile for human infestation' town fell as quickly as a house of cards...

Then when Cap read them the riot act as he decided to quit the Justice League, I was impressed. I didn't like how they really underpowered Cap, but it is the Justice League, and Sup's is their main star...
Wonder Woman though, has been a very good rendition for the team. it's just their power levels are for crap. If you are a Green Lantern, who has many planetary systems in your sector, how come you have such a hard time with earth, and its villains?!? You should be flying around, like the Silver Surfer on steroids, handling scores of disasters simotaniously, ordering Mc Donalds, delivering 5 babies and considering how to better society as they know it... You are the Space Marshalls who also, as guardians ensure the evil doesn't happen again. So, why is Green Lantern at such a pittifully low level in power and ability? the Guardians are super geniuses, and search for the right people, so, what happened?!, especially with "The Most Powerful Weapon in the universe".


Take the Monster Society novel, use good graphics and give me the writers of Justice League, and I bet a Shazam Series would be good. or atleast a DVD. Though they need to quit Olympian Bashing in Wonder Woman...

Raoul
Originally posted by Capt.Whitebread
You are right. It was sad too. Though it was even more sad when the clash between Sups and Cap happened because Superman was such a jerk!!! I'm more the Green Lantern Fan from the Cartoon. But in the whole episode, Superman had his butt on his shoulders. Batman, who never gives compliments, bragged on Captain Marvel. and when Superman decided to not listen, already to ignite like 5 millions of gasoline after you drop a magnesium flare into the tank...Superman was more of a villain than anything. The plan worked well for Lex, just a little poke, and the 600 pound Kryptonian gorilla is on the rampage. Cap looked like twice the hero by even trying to negotiate and could have even been more of a help, but the combat destroyed the 'too fragile for human infestation' town fell as quickly as a house of cards...

Then when Cap read them the riot act as he decided to quit the Justice League, I was impressed. I didn't like how they really underpowered Cap, but it is the Justice League, and Sup's is their main star...
Wonder Woman though, has been a very good rendition for the team. it's just their power levels are for crap. If you are a Green Lantern, who has many planetary systems in your sector, how come you have such a hard time with earth, and its villains?!? You should be flying around, like the Silver Surfer on steroids, handling scores of disasters simotaniously, ordering Mc Donalds, delivering 5 babies and considering how to better society as they know it... You are the Space Marshalls who also, as guardians ensure the evil doesn't happen again. So, why is Green Lantern at such a pittifully low level in power and ability? the Guardians are super geniuses, and search for the right people, so, what happened?!, especially with "The Most Powerful Weapon in the universe".


Take the Monster Society novel, use good graphics and give me the writers of Justice League, and I bet a Shazam Series would be good. or atleast a DVD. Though they need to quit Olympian Bashing in Wonder Woman...

superman was a gigantic ass during the latter season of JLU. that whole cadmus arc was just... ugh.

lol, you're right about the lanterns. i'm always surprised at just how much more competent comic john stewart is than the cartoon version. and the comic one has hair, too.

Sasaraixx
Diana

Sasaraixx
Originally posted by Raoul
superman was a gigantic ass during the latter season of JLU. that whole cadmus arc was just... ugh.

lol, you're right about the lanterns. i'm always surprised at just how much more competent comic john stewart is than the cartoon version. and the comic one has hair, too.

True, but I did fall about laughing when he said "It's Lex flippin' Luthor!"

Spire
CM.

Sweet_lady18
All that Diana have to do is Lasso Billy and ask him the Name of his Master....... SHAZAM!! Done WW wins!

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