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This is the message I get from any topic even mentioning Ragnos, Simus, Sadow, Kreesh or whoever from about 3-5 months ago and before that. Popularized mainly by some guy named Jenus, TT...dt...or something and IKC, it was an insane trend. As in these instances, one should search old topics to see if a possible battle has been done before. Yet, in my searches on Luke an dSidious and Kun, all I ran into is people saying Ragnos beats them all. Sadow beats them all. Apparently, Raven and DN Luke and DE Sidious are two tiers below Sadow. I just can't fathom why everyone felt so strongly that the Ancients could beat ANYONE by default and it went nearly unquestioned. Though, the fact the users I mentioned just insulted anyone who didn't agree with them might have had something to do with it.

Not to be serious, but every topic from 4 months ago needs to be deleted if it concerns the Ancient Sith vs. anyone because it's hardly any just fight and far from accurate in outcome. What is so goddam special about Ragnosa nd his lot?

People think they're Godly, but they probably arn't, I don't think there's any proof, just taken as fact since everyone says so

The real question behind all this: who really cares. . .?

People who post here and find it enigmatic that a group of persons decide to validate their assertion in each various vs. topic with hearsay and conjecure and therefore ruin any good topic? When a bunch of people just insult others, use their own opinion-twisted facts with ambiguous meanings ( ie. Sadow and Kreesh fearing Ragnos) to prove one contestant the winner, the topic is effectively destroyed and all its value is lost. Searching other topics for insight and finding only this "ANCIENT SITH PWN ALL!!!" trash is quite frustrating and I am puzzling over why these people ran about here as long as they did.

Let's just watch pr0n.

But anyways, apparently the ancient Sith were powerful, blah blah blah. Marka Ragnos I would assume is either extremely good with politics or extremely powerful, due to the fact that he ruled a race of people renowned for infighting for a century.

MEESAH LOVE TEH RAGNOS FELLER!!

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m239/charlebs/1156614025954.jpg

It was mainly the Antedilluvian's (what a stupid name anyway) doing. Janus stayed on KMC for like five hours talking with his lapdog Faunus and crew saying how uber Ragnos is and how he can cause supernovas.

I can argee with Sadow being top ten(but not the most powerful) but not Ragnos, Kreesh, Simus, or any of those people who we haven't seen do anything significant.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
It was mainly the Antedilluvian's (what a stupid name anyway) doing. Janus stayed on KMC for like five hours talking with his lapdog Faunus and crew saying how uber Ragnos is and how he can cause supernovas.

Janus > You.

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
I can argee with Sadow being top ten(but not the most powerful) but not Ragnos, Kreesh, Simus, or any of those people who we haven't seen do anything significant.

And I can agree that Ragnos is > Sadow by one quote. "The most powerful of the most powerful". Simple enough.

Originally posted by Advent
Janus > You.



And I can agree that Ragnos is > Sadow by one quote. "The most powerful of the most powerful". Simple enough.

That was before Sadow performed all his great feats.

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
That was before Sadow performed all his great feats.

Sadow didn't get anymore powerful from when Ragnos died until Sadow put himself into suspended animation for some 600 years. Unless you're going to tell me that Sadow's powers magically increased tenfold over the course of practically the same year? Ha. Yeah, right. Prove Sadow got stronger, you can't, but I'll ask anyways.

And one of his "great feats" of blowing up the Dena rii Nova was used with technology (his flagship to be exact), and was duplicated using the same technology by the weakling Aleema and the spineless worm Crado. That proves you don't even have to be powerful to use his ship's weaponry (because that's what it is), as well proving that Sadow's "great feat" of causing solar flares isn't his own power.

What else did Sadow do beside that? Create mass illusions with - again - using something. He used a meditation sphere to amplify his powers. Anyways, Ragnos is more powerful than Sadow, so keep on dreaming, noob.

First of all, little kitten, that is an opinion and it has no relevance to me since it can be totally incorrect.

Second of all, this is the same Janus who argued that Dooku would wipe the floor out of Anakin and Obi-Wan EVEN THOUGH ANAKIN DEFEATED TYRANNUS IN THE MOVIE.

Third of all, Janus and his crew didn't allow any debates to occur. Instead, they felt they were above everyone else and they kept insulting any threat to their argument.

Fourth of all, did I say Janus is dumber than I? No, I added to Nikolas's post that the Antedilluvian were Ancient Sith Fanboys and often were the basis of such ridiculous posts.

Fifth of all, Janus is a better debater. Plus, he did make some sweet threads. But his SW Versus Logic was kinda of messed up.

Finally Advent, Janus >> You!

Even if Sadow was tremendously uber, which I doubt... even he was kept in line by Ragnos. When you go a hundred years without being challenged for supremecy, and when your ghost scares the bejeezus out of the likes of Sadow and Kresh, you know your the more powerful.

Quinlan, none of that changes the fact Janus > you.

(Side note: Oh, and don't ever call me "little kitten" again, smallfry.)

Wow, little kitten, you are really are dunce. For all you know, somebody could think I > Janus.

BTW Advent, why do you always have the urge to keep insulting or argue with me?

"You are really are dunce"? Nice one, smallfry.

Whatever. And do tell how I have an "urge" to argue with you or insult you, because all I said was that Janus is greater than you jokingly, in which you go off on another post ranting about two words and a symbol. And of course, if I ever argue with you it's for the same reason I do it with everyone else. Simple answer: because you're wrong.

Originally posted by Advent
Sadow didn't get anymore powerful from when Ragnos died until Sadow put himself into suspended animation for some 600 years. Unless you're going to tell me that Sadow's powers magically increased tenfold over the course of practically the same year? Ha. Yeah, right. Prove Sadow got stronger, you can't, but I'll ask anyways.

And one of his "great feats" of blowing up the Dena rii Nova was used with technology (his flagship to be exact), and was duplicated using the same technology by the weakling Aleema and the spineless worm Crado. That proves you don't even have to be powerful to use his ship's weaponry (because that's what it is), as well proving that Sadow's "great feat" of causing solar flares isn't his own power.

What else did Sadow do beside that? Create mass illusions with - again - using something. He used a meditation sphere to amplify his powers. Anyways, Ragnos is more powerful than Sadow, so keep on dreaming, noob.

I'm not Sadow got any more powerful. I'm just Ragnos being the most powerful before the story has nothing to do with what happens in GHW.

If you want to be so damn technical about using something, nobody is actually powerful since they're all using the force. If you think Ragnos is so powerful despite doing nothing and be unchallegened, go on. I won't believe Ragnos's powerful until I read about him using the force.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
BTW Advent, why do you always have the urge to keep insulting or argue with me?

Who is stupid enough to ask that?

You're face.

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
I'm not Sadow got any more powerful. I'm just Ragnos being the most powerful before the story has nothing to do with what happens in GHW.

Aside from the obvious fact that you don't know how to formulate a proper sentence (and you aren't alone), I have no idea what these statements mean. If Sadow didn't get anymore powerful then it means that Ragnos is more powerful than Sadow, because he was deemed "the most powerful of the most powerful".

What happens story-wise is irrelevant because Ragnos is still a more powerful being than Sadow.



Riiight, because it's not as if the Force is what we gauge their power on. The difference between the Force and using something isn't already there is just that. The Force is within a being, technology like ships and spheres are not.



It doesn't matter what you think. The fact of the matter is that he's more powerful, Ragnos doesn't have to display anything because we've already been informed.

Thr Rock is so sexy.
ugh... typo, rock not cock..

I opened a can of worms...but, anyway, Sidious > Ragnos. Kudos to Escape for his excellent topic on this.

sidious would never > ragnos, win yes but never ever pwn an ancient sith since sidious by DE always plays with lightning, never uses drain often, force spear, force sight, he doesnt use that at all against his enemies


and exar kun would be a match to sidious since he was able to "physically" kill luke in the JA trilogy

I believe that was Kyp givena power boost. It wasn't Kun's own spirit that did the job or he wouldn't have gotten Kyp to help him in the first place. And Sidious' Force Storm? A bit above anything ever even rumored that Ragnos or shown by Kun. Transporting your own spirit across the emptiness of space to reach your clones and existing by pure willpower alone is a bit more impressive than infusing your spirit into a temple.

well firstly a spirit cant do sh!t, and when you get into someones body, it doesnt "boost" then why is palpatine the same in his new clones ? each clone like the one before, even when jeng droga was possessed by palpatine, it didnt "boost" jengs powers and had it been exars original body he would have killed luke .

o? but exar kuns spirit lived for 4000 years and drained an entire planet of massassi and idk what happened, the temple collapsed on him i think
and no, it was the ancient sith who helped palpatine get back to life, he admitted that in empires end to the ancient sith spirits. and as i said palpatine possessed jeng droga to get to byss, he didnt drift there.

o and as if he would do a force storm in a head to head dueling fight to the death, if he tried that on any1, even someone not as strong as him like vader, during a lightsaber duel, he would get killed, why? because it is stupid to strike with a force power during combat and it is a mistake which will get you killed because you let your guard down

Lol, if you say that the spirit can't do shit, then Kyp did all the work. It is even stated in the book that Luke could handle both individually, but together they were to powerful. And Luke also didn't want to harm one of his greatest students...

Originally posted by ESB Vader
sidious would never > ragnos, win yes but never ever pwn an ancient sith since sidious by DE always plays with lightning, never uses drain often, force spear, force sight, he doesnt use that at all against his enemies


and exar kun would be a match to sidious since he was able to "physically" kill luke in the JA trilogy
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m239/charlebs/1159107406189.jpg

Those are your arguments for Sidious never being able to defeat Ragnos? What force abilities does Ragnos use then? Seriously, everybody needs to shut the f*ck up with their: "OMG, he was once the most powerful of the most powerful, this is enough for a million discussions!!"
Just let the f*cker go.. or at least out of comparisons.

Man, Exar beating Luke there couldn't have had anything to do with all the darkside energy of Yavin to call on and hitting a surprised Luke from behind, could it?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Man, Exar beating Luke there couldn't have had anything to do with all the darkside energy of Yavin to call on and hitting a surprised Luke from behind, could it?

You know that can't be true.

Originally posted by overlord
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m239/charlebs/1159107406189.jpg

Those are your arguments for Sidious never being able to defeat Ragnos? What force abilities does Ragnos use then? Seriously, everybody needs to shut the f*ck up with their: "OMG, he was once the most powerful of the most powerful, this is enough for a million discussions!!"
Just let the f*cker go.. or at least out of comparisons.

I argee. I just hate it when people take quotes so damn seriously.

Originally posted by Advent
Aside from the obvious fact that you don't know how to formulate a proper sentence (and you aren't alone), I have no idea what these statements mean. If Sadow didn't get anymore powerful then it means that Ragnos is more powerful than Sadow, because he was deemed "the most powerful of the most powerful".

What happens story-wise is irrelevant because Ragnos is still a more powerful being than Sadow.

It doesn't matter what you think. The fact of the matter is that he's more powerful, Ragnos doesn't have to display anything because we've already been informed.


That line is hyperbole. Do you believe everything you're told? Some of us live in 20th Century. About 200 years ago, there a period called Enlightenment. One of its element focus on thinking over being controlled. You should read about it. Asians such as yourself probably haven't heard of it.

1.) It always seems Advent that whenever we're debating, we're always on the opposite sides. Apparently, even if it may have not been your original intention, I have gotten the opinion that you don't find me very likable

2.) I didn't find it a joke Advent. You are very serious kitten, even though I may be misunderstanding this since I don't know much about you. But that's what I got from you.

3.) I did not particularly like Janus and his gang so that's why I found your "jokingly" insult quite mean.

4.) Finally Advent, you are wrong sometimes as well. I still found our debate ROTS Obi-Wan & Revan vs. ROTS Mace and Kyle unfinished and not correct on your part, though you must have felt the same way towards mine.

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
That line is hyperbole.

"Hyperbole" means an exaggerated statement. Prove that it's an exaggeration. For Buddha's sake it's the omniscient narrator describing Ragnos. It's not hyperbolic - it's fact. Luke swinging his saber around as if it were twenty is hyperbole. Ragnos being the most powerful of the Ancient Sith is not.



Do you believe the words that you type? I honestly can't see how anyone would, but then again...



...you think it's the 20th century! LOL. Now I know I'm dealing with a true idiot. Sorry, Marty McFly, but we all live in the 21st century. You can join us, of course, once you pull your head out of your ass.



Thanks for the history lesson, George Berkeley, but you can save it for another day. Actually, save it for when you join the rest of us in the 21st century.

@ Quinlan:

1.) And have you read my debates with Rampant ox? It would seem I literally hate the guy, however, I don't - he's funny, and can be a good debater. I just don't play nice when I debate because over the months, I've tired of constant bullshit and the like.

2.) But you seem to go out on five point rant for one ambiguous statement. I never said Janus was a better debater than you (he is, but I never said it), I just said he is greater than you. He is greater than everybody. He's friggin' Janus.

3.) And I do not particularly like the fact you would call Faunus a "lapdog", or attempt to discredit Janus in any way. Especially while he doesn't frequent here often anymore (but spends his time at the better EoD).

4.) Oh, it's wrong as fact now? Sorry, but I called your shit out on Malak, and you were arguing the unknown. Several times actually. The only thing I was wrong on mainly was the probability, but like I said in the thread "appeal to probability", trick. So, you're still wrong. And the last comment made on the thread by you to me had nothing to refute in it because it was filled with "you make me sick, your sayings are getting you nowhere, etc.". What is there to finish? Our debate was over. You made shit up, you want to believe just because something is likely to happen that it will, and so on. All I had to do was prove the fight was an unknown, your quotes were bullshit, and their references, etc.

Don't believe me? Check the last page we debated on again, except this time equip your super spectacles as you obviously have no clue what the hell you're talking about.

Originally posted by Advent
"Hyperbole" means an exaggerated statement. Prove that it's an exaggeration. For Buddha's sake it's the omniscient narrator describing Ragnos. It's not hyperbolic - it's fact. Luke swinging his saber around as if it were twenty is hyperbole. Ragnos being the most powerful of the Ancient Sith is not.



Do you believe the words that you type? I honestly can't see how anyone would, but then again...



...you think it's the 20th century! LOL. Now I know I'm dealing with a true idiot. Sorry, Marty McFly, but we all live in the 21st century. You can join us, of course, once you pull your head out of your ass.



Thanks for the history lesson, George Berkeley, but you can save it for another day. Actually, save it for when you join the rest of us in the 21st century.

A mere typo. 0 and 1 are near each other.

Umm, I didn't see any crap in that page Advent. All my answers, except about that milk comment, did not seemed far-fetched. And that wasn't really the best page to pick our debate because I just answered you and that's it.

Okay, I apologize to Faunus

So Faunus, if you happen to read this, I'm sorry. I don't typically like to talk about other people behind their backs just to let you know, but this accidently came out when Advent mentioned Janus.

Originally posted by kamikz
Lol, if you say that the spirit can't do shit, then Kyp did all the work. It is even stated in the book that Luke could handle both individually, but together they were to powerful. And Luke also didn't want to harm one of his greatest students...

well maybe and consider that exar kun has been weakened for the 4000 year gap, and this book came out before totj i believe and thats where they show exar kuns real power, i said he would be a match, not beat luke "easy" yes and i believed kyp did the work.
in my point of view if he was really overpowering luke in kyps body, then why would he want to get a new body fresh for himself if itsweaker than exar + kyp body? get my point? simple, because thats where he can use his real powers, get stronger, he is only beefing up kyps power i believe and thus not using his own
and if a spirit cant do shit well then i wonder why would it take lukes whole academy and exars former master to send that guy back to oblivion when all it took is one wounded jedi to destroy palpatine forever, another one, why? because they knew exar kun would become a major threat

and for you people who think idiots refer to ragnos quote, well some of you are even more brainless "O $!d!0u$ c@n W1n R@gN0s B3c@u$3 h3
c@n m@K3 f0Rc3 $t0Rm$" o yea? true but did you know in JA that luke feared ragnos coming back to life? and he didnt fear palpatine at all?

Originally posted by overlord
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m239/charlebs/1159107406189.jpg

Those are your arguments for Sidious never being able to defeat Ragnos? What force abilities does Ragnos use then? Seriously, everybody needs to shut the f*ck up with their: "OMG, he was once the most powerful of the most powerful, this is enough for a million discussions!!"
Just let the f*cker go.. or at least out of comparisons.

did you read my damm post? i said that sidious wouldnt PWN him, win him yes but sidious would never pwn any ancient sith.

"OMG, he was once the most powerful of the most powerful, this is enough for a million discussions!!""

and every need to shut the fu*k up for saying "ooo lala this book said palpatine is the strongest" when the damm book cant actually prove it, same thing as saying "ragnos was the strongest of the strongest" its based on the writer or authors god damm opinions so the truth is there really is no strongest in SW

This isn#t the versus area. Don't act like it is.

Again, I suggest you equip your super spectacles, or call Inspector Gadget to help you out. You didn't answer my post at all on that page. Half of the stuff you didn't even respond to (and I mean the valid points, not the messing around crap). And the quote I provided from the databank was not answered correctly. You said "No entry for Revan", which wasn't even relevant, and you said Revan beat Bastila/Malak. The entire excerpt given seems to correlate into Malak's military power because - at that point - with the Star Forge, he was nearly unstoppable by the Republic in terms of a full scale war. And even so, even if you say it refers to Malak's personal power, "nearly unstoppable" to whom? It would seem nearly unstoppable to a group of virtual unknowns, so it's not as if that point holds any water, because we have no idea of how say, Exar Kun, Mace, or Kyp would fair and their respective eras.

In any case, it doesn't really matter. I proved what I set out to do, which was that the fight was unknown, ergo you cannot treat anything as fact unless stated. And you also mention "likelihood" of this and that, my entire point is that it's called appeal to probability, because just because it's likely - doesn't mean it's so, even less when the entire "likeliness" is pure speculation since the entire fight is nearly a complete unknown event.

But whatever, we can drop it as I have better things to do with my time.

Yes, sure. And I set out to do what I set out to do, why you said Janus > I which you seemd to explain anyway.

BTW, Revan is still powerful (not wanting to start debate AT ALLLL!!!!) and he could have duked it out with Kyle for some time.

Kyle Katarn? I doubt it.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Man, Exar beating Luke there couldn't have had anything to do with all the darkside energy of Yavin to call on and hitting a surprised Luke from behind, could it?

problably it has lightsnake, its like sion on malachor and palpatine drawing on the dark side energies around them for their strength or drawing their strength from their passion and anger

Ignoring the fact that we didn't have any solid material on the fight from Lucas himself; and that it was logical to assume that Dooku - with his experience of fighting - > Kenobi + Skywalker.

But, wait? Oh, yeah; when Lightsnake gave a direct quote from Lucas; Janus accepted it.



Pfft. This is a cross between deliberate misinformation and general idiocy.



^ As above.



www.edge-of-destiny.com

Debate, and get owned.

Yea, just don't use Luke or the ancient sith, because it'll all be considered invalid context, or unsubstantiated quotes.

I'm not trying to debate here as this is not the versus thread. However, it is illogical to say experience > power of a person. Then that means Cin Drallig > Anakin because he has more fighting experience since he's battlemaster.



Did you not read my post? I said JANUS IS A BETTER DEBATER. But you can't deny that you guys were slightly biased to the Ancient Sith.

OF couse, even if I did try to join EoD, I probably won't since if Janus read this thread, he'll probably get me banned.

Janus has left these forums for ages and still people talk about him.
It's a fact he was 1 of the best debaters with a good sense for humour.

Originally posted by ESB Vader
well maybe and consider that exar kun has been weakened for the 4000 year gap, and this book came out before totj i believe and thats where they show exar kuns real power, i said he would be a match, not beat luke "easy" yes and i believed kyp did the work.
in my point of view if he was really overpowering luke in kyps body, then why would he want to get a new body fresh for himself if itsweaker than exar + kyp body? get my point? simple, because thats where he can use his real powers, get stronger, he is only beefing up kyps power i believe and thus not using his own
and if a spirit cant do shit well then i wonder why would it take lukes whole academy and exars former master to send that guy back to oblivion when all it took is one wounded jedi to destroy palpatine forever, another one, why? because they knew exar kun would become a major threat

and for you people who think idiots refer to ragnos quote, well some of you are even more brainless "O $!d!0u$ c@n W1n R@gN0s B3c@u$3 h3
c@n m@K3 f0Rc3 $t0Rm$" o yea? true but did you know in JA that luke feared ragnos coming back to life? and he didnt fear palpatine at all?



did you read my damm post? i said that sidious wouldnt PWN him, win him yes but sidious would never pwn any ancient sith.

"OMG, he was once the most powerful of the most powerful, this is enough for a million discussions!!""

and every need to shut the fu*k up for saying "ooo lala this book said palpatine is the strongest" when the damm book cant actually prove it, same thing as saying "ragnos was the strongest of the strongest" its based on the writer or authors god damm opinions so the truth is there really is no strongest in SW
Please don't speak to me, idiot. An age old quote about someone ever being the strongest of the strongest does not allow much discussion material for deciding whether he was better than the ones after him.
Yet this happens constantly. Perhaps it would be possible if there were also some force abilities or feats listed about him but even that's not the case.

Seriously, discussions about Ragnos vs later sith is goddamn retarded.

Originally posted by overlord
Please don't speak to me, idiot. An age old quote about someone ever being the strongest of the strongest does not allow much discussion material for deciding whether he was better than the ones after him.
Yet this happens constantly. Perhaps it would be possible if there were also some force abilities or feats listed about him but even that's not the case.

Seriously, discussions about Ragnos vs later sith is goddamn retarded.


i was not argueing about ragnos, im telling people that he cant be pwned but can get beaten. did i say ragnos will beat anyone? and what the are you trying to argue about? nothing? then stop it i have no wish to argue with you why? because i didnt say ragnos would beat any one as you claim im saying,

and yes i know its stupid to make a ragnos match because we dont know what he can do, and yea i do assume ragnos is powerful thats why i made some ragnos threads but hell next time ill think b4 i post or make a thread

Then don't go talking about Ragnos winning because Sidious only relies on force lightning and whatever. It looked to me like the basic Ragnos rant based on nothing at all.

Ok, closing this thread because of a mass outbreak of immaturity from the vs. area. Not impressed.