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I've had a debate on an other forum with fingolfin involved. and it seems like everybody treats him like he was some kind of god just because he was able to wound morgoth a couple of times and maim him for his life. he suffered a terrible death. he wasn't better then any other elf, my opinion. the bed wound on morgoth was because of fingolfins sword ringil. I bet if aragorn had fought morgoth the exact same thing would have happened. but can you come up with any reason why many see fingolfin as the best swordsman and fighter in arda ever. and I hate to say it but there seems to be a lot of fanboys in fingolfins favour. so tell me what so good about him.

Well I at least don't see him as a god like fighter or all powerfull. I guess he was pretty good, probably around one of the best fighters of middle-earth, but not near anything beyond of what a normal elf COULD become really...


My 3000 post!!!!

Thanks, that was the answer I was looking after. He probably is comparable with Aragorn and such, but he is not the best sword fighter ever walked arda.

congratulations

keep up the good work lad.

'Anks m8....

Fingolfin had to be pretty good even to wound a weakened Morgoth seven times. But Fingolfin I don't see Fingolfin being the best swordsman on Middle-Earth. I actually see Aragon being better then him for Aragon was taught by the Elves.

I agree very much with you ESB!

well we know a lot more about aragorn then fingolfin but still, yes I agree. I also thing aragorn is better.

I dont know what you all are talking about.

Samwise was obviously the best swordsman. Melkor's just lucky he didn't have to fight any hobbits during dagor somethingoldladyhacks or he would have been screwed a long time ago.

Definently....

Originally posted by Blax X
I dont know what you all are talking about.

Samwise was obviously the best swordsman. Melkor's just lucky he didn't have to fight any hobbits during dagor somethingoldladyhacks or he would have been screwed a long time ago.

yeaaah, samwise is trained by his father

Fingolfin was not even the most powerful elf, that was Feanor. And the battle between Fingolfin and Morgoth occured after Morgath was virtually powerless.

can you prof thats feanor is the most powerful?

Feanor was the most gifted in the crafts as taught to the Noldor by Aule (Mahal as he was called by the Dwarves) Feanor probably had the most raw power however physical/combat prowess is a different thing. Even after his was slain it is noted that his spirit was so fierce his body was consumed by flame.

Yeah, it was he who made the silmarills. but this is about fingolfin, and it seems like no one can find a reason for why he's so overated.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Fingolfin had to be pretty good even to wound a weakened Morgoth seven times. But Fingolfin I don't see Fingolfin being the best swordsman on Middle-Earth. I actually see Aragon being better then him for Aragon was taught by the Elves.
Elves stated to be weaker than when they first came to middle-earth. Few elves of Valinor are left when Aragorn is trained. The Ringwraiths feared Glorfindel far more than they did Aragorn. Plus, I don't think that Aragorn would stand a chance against a Balrog, or he might have tried to help Gandalf. That said, I don't think Glorfindel is comparable to Fingolfin as Fingolfin was great amongst the great elves. However, he is not god like. A few people that are comparable to him would be:
Feanor, Finrod, Maeglin, Fingon, Mablung, Beleg, Ecthelion, Glorfindel of Gondolin, Hurin, Turin, Tuor

Its debated hotly among people if Glorfindel of Gondolin and Glorfindel of Rivendell are one and the same, whilst it is agreed by many that this is one of those cases where you have to make up your own mind there is a strong case that it seems later Tolkein was not happy that Glorfindel of Rivendell was simply named after the earlier elf and as such had him return from Valinor with near Maia like levels of power thusly why the Wraiths feared him. But as I said it is strongly debated still both the Glorfindel's were very powerful.

yeah, it's an interesting point of view indeed.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Elves stated to be weaker than when they first came to middle-earth. Few elves of Valinor are left when Aragorn is trained. The Ringwraiths feared Glorfindel far more than they did Aragorn. Plus, I don't think that Aragorn would stand a chance against a Balrog, or he might have tried to help Gandalf. That said, I don't think Glorfindel is comparable to Fingolfin as Fingolfin was great amongst the great elves. However, he is not god like. A few people that are comparable to him would be:
Feanor, Finrod, Maeglin, Fingon, Mablung, Beleg, Ecthelion, Glorfindel of Gondolin, Hurin, Turin, Tuor



Aragon did try to help Gandalf, as stated in the books he and Boromir stayed to help him, and was about to run out on the bridge, then Gandalf let out a cry and slammed his staff into the bridge, making it crumble and fall.....

Besides, many of the reasons that people can't combat Balrogs is because they don't have the necessary weapons to kill it effectivley....

Originally posted by kamikz
Aragon did try to help Gandalf, as stated in the books he and Boromir stayed to help him, and was about to run out on the bridge, then Gandalf let out a cry and slammed his staff into the bridge, making it crumble and fall.....

Besides, many of the reasons that people can't combat Balrogs is because they don't have the necessary weapons to kill it effectivley....
You don't need anything special to kill a Balrog. How else would Ecthelion have killed one? The Balrog was beyond either Boromir or Aragorn to combat and Gandalf knew this.

"Swords are to no use here". Prove how Echtellion was beyond the fellowship except Gandalf together in combat skills....

And Echtellion had elvish weapons, which were magical. And he drowned Gothmog so....

It's not like Elvish weapons give you a oMg + 1oo d4m4G3! bonus. They just enable to to resist the Balrog's weapon in combat, instead of having it just split apart.

Most weapons does give a damage boost since their magical, nothing to that degree that you said, but it does give a boost. And even though it might not be that much, it still resists their swords (as you said), so they were required to fight Balrogs.

But how was Morgoth Destroyed? I do not remember.

He wasn't, he was captured by Eonwe and the Maiar host. Then he was chained by Aule and is to this day...

Of course one day when the World grows old and the Powers Grow Weary Morgoth will escape his binding and such will bring around the Dagor Dagorath or the Last Battle. It said there that Morgoth will finally be slain upon the Black Blade of Turin Turambar.

Originally posted by thefallen544
Of course one day when the World grows old and the Powers Grow Weary Morgoth will escape his binding and such will bring around the Dagor Dagorath or the Last Battle. It said there that Morgoth will finally be slain upon the Black Blade of Turin Turambar.
Ah, I remember the Last Battle now, but where does it say that Morgoth will be slain on the Black Blade of Turin? I don't seem to recall that.

I think it does mention it somewhere I'm sure of that, it does say that of mortal man upon that day nothing is said save for Turin who is named among the gods. I shall find the passage for you, it just may take a short while.

Was the prophecy on Turin mentioned in the Silmarillion? If it is I need to read that again.

I think that answer to your question is not an easy one, when you ask people why they think fingolfin is the best swordsman in midle earth is like asking is superman stronger then hulk or is spiderman stronger then batman, there will always be people with diferent ideas.

the fact is that fingolfin fought morgoth and wounded him seven times.
he was borne in valinor and beacouse of that he was stronger in spirit and fizical strenght.
now some of you will not agre with me but I think elfs born in valinor and fought in midle earth thrue hundred of years would get big experience that no human can.
personally I think fingolfin is better fighter then aragon but more then that I would not like to go.

Originally posted by Hurintar
I think that answer to your question is not an easy one, when you ask people why they think fingolfin is the best swordsman in midle earth is like asking is superman stronger then hulk or is spiderman stronger then batman, there will always be people with diferent ideas.

the fact is that fingolfin fought morgoth and wounded him seven times.
he was borne in valinor and beacouse of that he was stronger in spirit and fizical strenght.
now some of you will not agre with me but I think elfs born in valinor and fought in midle earth thrue hundred of years would get big experience that no human can.
personally I think fingolfin is better fighter then aragon but more then that I would not like to go.

Well the thing is, that it's not really like the "cookbook issue" even though I get your point. Because Tolkien wrote about both fingolfin and all the other people in arda, so it's the same author who obviously had one grand idea. Not four different authors, all of them saying "he's the mightiest guy in the world" or "she's the best".
Comparing heroes from different worlds is hell for sure, but comparing fingolfin with Aragorn (I only took him as an example, it might as well have been Meathos or some other guy) shoudln't be that much of a problem.

I'm not sure about that "valinor elves thing". I sort of don't see why they should mightier then other elves. not physically anyway. The experience fingolfin gained must have been enormous for sure, but there is nothing that says he's more experienced then any other elf at the time. In fact he should be even less experienced in battle, since the weapons were invented during his lifetime. A guy who grew up with the sword should be better handling it then a guy who didn't.

lol sorry meant comic book issue, nor cookbook issue. haha. oh well... :P

sorry for double posting..

Typical you Vanice, dumb as hell. (Jk)


Anyway, yeah, I agree, the feats that stand for Fingolfin that most people use to "prove" he is the best is actually not enough to prove he is the best swordsman. Sure, wounding Melkor bad stands tall, if you put it on paper, however, if you clearly describe the whole fight it is not that impressive. He ran around and struck his legs, anyone can swing a sword, doesn't prove jack shit about him being a good swordsman.....

Hey you! STFU Kamikz.


yeah ur right

Originally posted by Swirly Girl
It's not like Elvish weapons give you a oMg + 1oo d4m4G3! bonus. They just enable to to resist the Balrog's weapon in combat, instead of having it just split apart.

Where does it say this in the movies, books, Silmarillion, Historys of Middle Earth, or the Unfinished Tales?

I suppose you could assume that {and yeah, it's a resonable assumption}, but do you have any proof?

well Morgoth is the best fighter other than Tulkas, so wounding him 7 times is impressive

Fingolfin was the greatest warrior of the elves.....Ingwe was the greatest of the elves

cheers

Originally posted by vanice
Yeah, it was he who made the silmarills. but this is about fingolfin, and it seems like no one can find a reason for why he's so overated.
Isnt that simple in the end? Its Tolkien who tells us in the Sillmarilion that Fingolfin was the strongest Noldor who ever lived. I say strongest, so in sheer strength. Dont have the book here with me to quote the exact words but to me Feanor was the smartest, good with words and in possession of a fiery soul, yes but obviously not the strongest. Where Fingolfin was able to hurt a god, Feanor is defeated by one of the gods creations.

I think that is why he is so 'overrated'. Simply because Tolkien has told us.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Fingolfin had to be pretty good even to wound a weakened Morgoth seven times. But Fingolfin I don't see Fingolfin being the best swordsman on Middle-Earth. I actually see Aragon being better then him for Aragon was taught by the Elves.

Aragorn being better than Fingolfin that's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.
Fingolfin was considered the strongest, the most valiant and the best fighter among the sons of Finwe and that already puts him above Aragorn.
These dudes have seen the light of the trees so they have freaking spiritual power. They can face Balrogs while Aragorn can't land a hit.
Glorfindel showed himself to be much more powerful than Aragorn in the LOTR and Glorfindel wouldn't have any chance against Fingolfin.
Ecthelion killed the Lord of the Balrogs.
Nobody in the third age can compete with the Noldor of the first age period.
Aragorn even among men would be a regular warrior of the first age, for example compare him with Turin or Hurin, Beren...

Originally posted by Hurintar
I think that answer to your question is not an easy one, when you ask people why they think fingolfin is the best swordsman in midle earth is like asking is superman stronger then hulk or is spiderman stronger then batman, there will always be people with diferent ideas.

the fact is that fingolfin fought morgoth and wounded him seven times.
he was borne in valinor and beacouse of that he was stronger in spirit and fizical strenght.
now some of you will not agre with me but I think elfs born in valinor and fought in midle earth thrue hundred of years would get big experience that no human can.
personally I think fingolfin is better fighter then aragon but more then that I would not like to go.

Fingolfin was for sure on pair with Hurin or Turin and these guys would stomp Aragorn like he was an orc.

Originally posted by vanice
I've had a debate on an other forum with fingolfin involved. and it seems like everybody treats him like he was some kind of god just because he was able to wound morgoth a couple of times and maim him for his life. he suffered a terrible death. he wasn't better then any other elf, my opinion. the bed wound on morgoth was because of fingolfins sword ringil. I bet if aragorn had fought morgoth the exact same thing would have happened. but can you come up with any reason why many see fingolfin as the best swordsman and fighter in arda ever. and I hate to say it but there seems to be a lot of fanboys in fingolfins favour. so tell me what so good about him.

I think people like Fingolfin not just because he was a great warrior and a High King but because of his act of courage that's it. Tell me one guy in middle earth that would beat Fingolfin.