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Terrorism is a terrible thing, and so is 'fighting' it in the wrong way.

If I allow myself to conjecture as I consider it, these latest reports seem to show the fallacy of the argument that 'doing something is better than doing nothing'; the World is now a much more insecure place, with growing numbers of anti-Western sentiments because some people went about their response to a legitimate threat in the most ridiculousy erroneous way.

It's also pertinent to note that the UN inspector for torture - or whatever his title is - came out recently and said that there is now more torture of the Iraqi civilians than during the time of Saddam.

Therefore, in conclusion, every single change/resolution that the American, Australian and British governments said they were trying to achieve is actually being reversed - and worsened - by their mistakes and misjudgements. So, the only question remaining is: when are they going to be made culpable, and if these results were intended, when are they going to be made accountable?

Hahaha...Yeah, some hopes...

Yeah, so here's the link for that UN report on the torture in Iraq:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0922/dailyUpdate.html?s=u

I am gone for a day and this is the only response that this thread recieves?

Wow.


Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
So, the only question remaining is: when are they going to be made culpable, and if these results were intended, when are they going to be made accountable?

Never. Because Bush has made the world a safer place...didn't you hear him, that's what he said, so it must be true.

Truely, Krunk's points are exactly what I was thinking, and it frustrates me that the world just accepts the situation, and it frightens me that many in America don't see what's going on.

staying out of the war and infact being actively against it doesn't do you any good either...so whats the other options available?

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/09/al_qaeda_declares_france_enemy/

"The National Intelligence Estimate, a consensus view of 16 separate spy agencies including the CIA..."

"Part of a comprehensive spy report finished in April and leaked last weekend said the U.S. invasion of Iraq helped create a new generation of Islamic radicals and increased the global terrorism threat"


im supposed to place equal stock in what robert kagan from a right wing blog said?

"the bombing and destruction of two American embassies in East Africa in 1998, the terrorist attack on the USS Cole in 2000, and the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Since the Iraq war started, there have not been any successful terrorist attacks against the United States. That doesn't mean the threat has diminished because of the Iraq war, but it does place the burden of proof on those who argue that it has increased."

that makes no sense at all. no burden of proof is placed on those who argue that the threat of terrorism has increased. that factor is judged by the number of militant islamists. simple as that. if there are far more now than then, then their is more motivaton for recruitment. simple.

could it be because we have a small scale (unfortunately) war in afghanistan? yes, keeping them busy, thats good. but AGAIN, what are we doing in iraq? whats the connection? how is the war in iraq and no terrorist attacks >>>ON AMERICAN LAND<<< connected?

on the same point, a complete pullout from iraq would lead to yet another disaster in the making. HOWEVER it shouldnt have been like this. thats the point that this guy missed, and i guess in turn the point that you missed. we opened up the power vaccume, let the genie out of the bottle, opened the can of worms *insert various other cliches*. iraq is fast becoming a terrorist state, and all we can do is keep our finger in the dyke and pray to jesus at the cost of a thousand or so u.s. soldiers a year.....at best *huh huh he said put our fingers....*

Maybe Dubya will initiate a program called "Afghanistanization" in which he slowly pulls troops out of the Middle East .........

why wont people wake up and realise that iraq had nothing to do with any terrorist threat, and that the "mushroom cloud" bullshit was what got us there? why doesnt anyone care?

A lot of people realize it and don't like it. But what the Hell are commonfolk like myself gonna do other than say "Boohoo, I don't like that!"

Originally posted by PVS
why wont people wake up and realise that iraq had nothing to do with any terrorist threat, and that the "mushroom cloud" bullshit was what got us there? why doesnt anyone care?

1.)We mostly know there is no Terrorist threat, that wasn't the main reason for going, yet there are quite a few Terrorists there
2.)Iraq may not have been a good idea at the start, but if it succeeds there, we can begin in destroying Radical Islam, if you can't see that what's happening there is for the better, then I suggest stop reading NewsPapers

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
1.)We mostly know there is no Terrorist threat, that wasn't the main reason for going, yet there are quite a few Terrorists there

yet you just made that up. how can you do that in good conscience without the urge to hit yourself very hard in the face...well, bless your heart.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
2.)Iraq may not have been a good idea at the start, but if it succeeds there, we can begin in destroying Radical Islam, if you can't see that what's happening there is for the better, then I suggest stop reading NewsPapers

...and reports by the cia and various intelligence commissions and just pull shit out of my ass and post it at kmc. *gets up and dances* OH LORDY LORDY YOU HAVE SHOWN ME THE LIGHT!!!

Originally posted by PVS
yet you just made that up. how can you do that in good conscience without the urge to hit yourself very hard in the face...well, bless your heart.



...and reports by the cia and various intelligence commissions and just pull shit out of my ass and post it at kmc. *gets up and dances* OH LORDY LORDY YOU HAVE SHOWN ME THE LIGHT!!!

So you're denying Al Quada wasn't there, as well as several other Terrorist Organizations?

Also, are you denying that Iraq isn't becoming a better place? The reason there is more torture(that's definately off), is because Saddam's supporters and Terrorists don't want any Democracy to succeed there, it isn't our fault they have problems, it's the Terrorists and their hate of our form of Government/us altogether. Despite what the Media says, Iraq is a lot better than it was, save Baghdad, which is the #1 Target of Insurgents

PVS, I don't feel a need to find crap and post it, your hate of anything Conservative destroys the use

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
So you're denying Al Quada wasn't there, as well as several other Terrorist Organizations?

yes. i am denying that al qaeda was there, because they were not there, as was admitted by our president. as far as "terrorists" there were many militias in iraq, all kept in check by a dictator. they were not an organisation hellbent on destroying america. learn what the hell the facts are before running your mouth.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Also, are you denying that Iraq isn't becoming a better place?

yes i am. are you paying attention? should i make it more clear? give me your forehead and a tattoo needle and ill try.


Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
The reason there is more torture(that's definately off), is because Saddam's supporters and Terrorists don't want any Democracy to succeed there, it isn't our fault they have problems, it's the Terrorists and their hate of our form of Government/us altogether. Despite what the Media says, Iraq is a lot better than it was, save Baghdad, which is the #1 Target of Insurgents

only thousands are killed because of this war per month, they are still kidnapped and tortured by our military and by their "police". no, they are not better off. get it?



you dont feel the need to research the truth because i hate anything conservative...so whether or not you research world events is based on my opinions on neoconservatism....you really are a sharp one, huh? (that was a rhetorical question, sunshine. no need to answer that one)

Originally posted by KharmaDog
it frustrates me that the world just accepts the situation, and it frightens me that many in America don't see what's going on.

I think people around the world don't accept the situation, but too many of their governments do. Whether this is due to economic pressure, or a genuine synchronicity of beliefs, it is not totally clear, although I feel the former is the stronger reason.



That scenario is probably created by the situation the US has given us. What I mean is, if the US hadn't taken this erroneous course of action, it is unlikely that nations that favour a different course would have been so affected by the fall-out from whatever the alternative action was. Basically, what the US has done has tainted all of Western democratic countries, regardless of their support or otherwise. That seems like a grand-standing statement, but in light of these recent reports, it certainly rings true.

As for other options, anything offered is attacked by the pro-war lobby as pandering to terrorists, so it looks like we're stuck, Yossarian.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
1.)We mostly know there is no Terrorist threat, that wasn't the main reason for going, yet there are quite a few Terrorists there

Bush distinctly implicated a link between 9/11 and Iraq. To deny that is just plain ridiculous and revisionist history.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
2.)Iraq may not have been a good idea at the start, but if it succeeds there, we can begin in destroying Radical Islam, if you can't see that what's happening there is for the better, then I suggest stop reading NewsPapers

Destroy radical Islam? Iraq was a secular country before the invasion. It has only been since the removal of Sadam that fundamentalist Islamic leaders have been able to take hold. Have you paid attention to anything that has happened at all or do you just repeat what you have been told?

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Also, are you denying that Iraq isn't becoming a better place? The reason there is more torture(that's definately off), is because Saddam's supporters and Terrorists don't want any Democracy to succeed there, it isn't our fault they have problems, it's the Terrorists and their hate of our form of Government/us altogether. Despite what the Media says, Iraq is a lot better than it was, save Baghdad, which is the #1 Target of Insurgents

Wow, just wow. I don't which comment is more absurd. Between, "are you denying that Iraq isn't becoming a better place?" or "it isn't our fault they have problems" or finally "Iraq is a lot better than it was, save Baghdad" I am just amazed that someone could actually believe that.

It makes me lose a little hope in the world knowing that people like that are actually out there.

Originally posted by PVS
yes. i am denying that al qaeda was there, because they were not there, as was admitted by our president. as far as "terrorists" there were many militias in iraq, all kept in check by a dictator. they were not an organisation hellbent on destroying america. learn what the hell the facts are before running your mouth.



yes i am. are you paying attention? should i make it more clear? give me your forehead and a tattoo needle and ill try.




only thousands are killed because of this war per month, they are still kidnapped and tortured by our military and by their "police". no, they are not better off. get it?



you dont feel the need to research the truth because i hate anything conservative...so whether or not you research world events is based on my opinions on neoconservatism....you really are a sharp one, huh? (that was a rhetorical question, sunshine. no need to answer that one)

Guess ya don't remember Zar-Quawi(sp), I never said they were an "Organization Hellbent on destroying America" in fact I never said it was a good idea going in at first, but there is now something to fight for

So Democracy, freedom from Saddam, freedom in all, and the lack of mass execution/torture isn't better?

Oh really, our Military is capturing and Torturing Thousands of people, that's a bunch of bull, what was it? 4 of our Guards at that Prison tortured some people? And it's not like we're cutting off fingers or anything, we're giving them Pain Drugs and Electroshots, but I forgot, you can't do that with Psycohpathic Extremeists, it's not right is it, we have to be Humain to the people who want to kill us

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Bush distinctly implicated a link between 9/11 and Iraq. To deny that is just plain ridiculous and revisionist history.



Destroy radical Islam? Iraq was a secular country before the invasion. It has only been since the removal of Sadam that fundamentalist Islamic leaders have been able to take hold. Have you paid attention to anything that has happened at all or do you just repeat what you have been told?



Wow, just wow. I don't which comment is more absurd. Between, "are you denying that Iraq isn't becoming a better place?" or "it isn't our fault they have problems" or finally "Iraq is a lot better than it was, save Baghdad" I am just amazed that someone could actually believe that.

It makes me lose a little hope in the world knowing that people like that are actually out there.

Again, "MAIN" reason, it was in the quote but ok. That was mostly bad intelligence, but still the MAIN reason was WMD's, he had them, more are turning it, a whole crap load of Poison Gas has turned up, there are Terrorists in Iraq, including Al Queda, but ok?

Reading comprehension, I never said Iraq was......if Iraq succeeds, Terrorism won't be loved so much like it is over there, this will affect the WHOLE Middle East. This is important, and if you want to pull out, by all means, keep them behind, and hateful of us, it's a little nicer than what I'm for(Nuking 1 Major City every once in a while if they don't hand over the Terrorists). I again say, going in was a mistake, but pulling out would be a much greater mistake, we need Iraq/Afghanistan to function.

Iraq is becoming better, despite what your friendly Ex-Presidents/Media tells you. The thing with you people is you arn't willing to make sacrfices should it be for the greater good

So much of your post is garbage, so I wil only respond to the following:

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Oh really, our Military is capturing and Torturing Thousands of people, that's a bunch of bull, what was it? 4 of our Guards at that Prison tortured some people?

Even one incident is too many. Your justification and absolution of torture is pathetic.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
but I forgot, you can't do that with Psycohpathic Extremeists, it's not right is it,

Actually, many of the people in Abu Garib were neither Islamic extemists or insurgents. Just people who got caught up in a bad mess. Your generalization of the population shows your grasp of the situation. So is it still o.k. to torture and imprison them just cause they're Iraqi?


Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
we have to be Humain to the people who want to kill us

Well yes. And if you could look outside the box, you would comprehend that you have to win the hearts of the people, not torture them. As the U.S. is the invading army promoting their invasion as "for the good of Iraqis", it looks pretty bad when you torture or wrongfully arrest them.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
So much of your post is garbage, so I wil only respond to the following:



Even one incident is too many. Your justification and absolution of torture is pathetic.



Actually, many of the people in Abu Garib were neither Islamic extemists or insurgents. Just people who got caught up in a bad mess. Your generalization of the population shows your grasp of the situation. So is it still o.k. to torture and imprison them just cause they're Iraqi?




Well yes. And if you could look outside the box, you would comprehend that you have to win the hearts of the people, not torture them. As the U.S. is the invading army promoting their invasion as "for the good of Iraqis", it looks pretty bad when you torture or wrongfully arrest them.

Yes, because a few of our soldiers are screwed up, that means we're terrible people, how could we do this?!?! Damn the Military, they ordered those Soldiers to do it! Get real.

I didn't Generalize the Population, the people in that Prison were Insurgents/Terrorists, that is why it was guarded by the Military. When did I ever say that "put them in prison cause they're Iraqi"? You're putting words in my mouth, as well as butchering statements

Look outside the box? Are you that dull? Win the hearts of the Terrorists? You have lost reason, that is who we torture, not the average farmer. You seem to be living in a world where everything has to be perfect, or it's all wrong, there are FEW mistakes, and you use that as Evidence for not being there

But because my posts are Conservative Garbage, you shouldn't listen to me hang

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger


I didn't Generalize the Population, the people in that Prison were Insurgents/Terrorists, that is why it was guarded by the Military. When did I ever say that "put them in prison cause they're Iraqi"? You're putting words in my mouth, as well as butchering statements

Actually no they weren't - which is why most where released soon after the incident. The Coalition and Iraqi forces did a lot of "mass" arresting early on - former soldiers, civilians in the wrong place at the wrong time, people incorrectly identified and so on.

The majority of people who ended up in AG. and were tortured were not terrorists nor insurgents.

As to this, I only heard about it on the news here last night. Made me wonder - the lead was about how the senate had dismissed a report from the intelligence whatever saying the threat of terrorism had risen. I didn't realise your sent could be so summery with reports.

And then a couple of days before this there was a news report about a study that had found torture and the like was now likely just as bad, if not worse in Iraq then during Saddam's rule - what with every other day a hundred people turning up dead - killed by insurgents, killed in sectarian violence, killed by terrorists (note - terrorists and insurgents are technically two different groups.)

Besides, a while back the statistics were tallied and it was shown that prior to the invasion the threat of terrorism was less. All acts of terrorism were tallied and compared with previous years - and due to the inclusion of Iraqi terrorist acts and the like it was shown it is now statistically more likely there will be terrorist attacks then it would have been prior to the war.

i believe its because of algeria that al-qaeda is "declaring war" on France...although i didnt really bother to find out much more cause...really...who gives a shit about Algeria...

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Yes, because a few of our soldiers are screwed up, that means we're terrible people, how could we do this?!?!

No, endorsing, condoning, justifying, accepting or ignoring it makes you a terrible person.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
I didn't Generalize the Population, the people in that Prison were Insurgents/Terrorists, that is why it was guarded by the Military.

Wrong again. Most people were let go because they were innocent. I won't bother covering ground that Imperial covered so well before me.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Look outside the box? Are you that dull? Win the hearts of the Terrorists?

Yes, that's exactly what I said...uhhmm...no it isn't. And not all Iraqis are terrorists or insurgents.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
You have lost reason, that is who we torture, not the average farmer.

Wrong again. Also endorsing torture again. Bravo!

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
But because my posts are Conservative Garbage, you shouldn't listen to me hang

That is the smartest thing you have said yet, unfortunately it was only an attempt at humor, so you lose a few points there again.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
No, endorsing, condoning, justifying, accepting or ignoring it makes you a terrible person.



Wrong again. Most people were let go because they were innocent. I won't bother covering ground that Imperial covered so well before me.



Yes, that's exactly what I said...uhhmm...no it isn't. And not all Iraqis are terrorists or insurgents.



Wrong again. Also endorsing torture again. Bravo!



That is the smartest thing you have said yet, unfortunately it was only an attempt at humor, so you lose a few points there again.

I never Justified it(though I'm sure a few of them deserved it), but you are blaming the whole Military for it, which is your problem, Liberals don't like Individuals, they like groups.

Skipping this post, since again, several of the people there were Insurgents

What I said, was torturing Terrorists, and you told me to think outside the box, and be humain to them, so technically, that IS what you said. I never said all Iraqi's were Terrorists/Insurgents, yet you seem to get that with the Ancient Liberal Secret of Word Twisting.

Yes, I'm wrong because you say I'm wrong, we torture Terrorists, OK? The people in Gitmo are tortured, those people in Prison that arn't Terrorists, just get Prisoner Treatment. And yes, I support Torture, I can't possibly fathom how being nice to a person that wants to kill us will work, but ok, you go with that, and watch them tell nothing. I do support Torture, what is wrong with Torturing Terrorists? What you do is say, I am the Big Bad Conservative that wants to Torture Iraqi's for the Hell of it.

For this last post, you have supported a Lack of Credibility, you think all Conservatives are Moronic Douchebags that want War, and killing of poor innocents.

Get out of your shell, stop trying to make the World Perfect, we need to do some Dark things in order to fight these people who will stop at nothing to chop off your head

Has anyone else realized that when liberal and conservatives argue, it's just days upon days of the pot calling the kettle black?

Both are well intentioned. But how about instead of insulting your opponent, you have a civil debate? Both of you think you're right obviously, and insulting or getting insulted isn't going to change what either of you think.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Skipping this post, since again, several of the people there were Insurgents

Are we still talking about AB here? Because there wasn't differentiation - there wasn't a terrorist wing and a "Innocent person wrongly arrested wing" - might some have been terrorists? Possibly. The fact was the vast majority weren't and the majority of those treated to a bit of the prison guard hospitality weren't either.



I don't think he was suggesting being humane to the terrorists (though it is good to see how quickly a person can decide a whole group deserves no humane treatment) - rather it is winning the hearts and minds of Iraqis. It might seem a surprise, but doing that is far better then torturing terrorists and letting the world see. Because what that does is makes people angry, and more likely to be terrorists. It is self defeating to capture and torture a terrorist if the by product is a dozen Iraqi citizens becoming replacements as a result.

Which is what Iraqi is all about. The reason why experts are saying "Iraqi has created the next generation of terrorist" - because the hearts and minds haven't been won. They have been royally angered, and people turn to terrorism.



Hmmm. What is wrong with torturing terrorists, apart from the bad media. Might it be because no one seems certain who is a terrorist? Tell me, with the Guantanamo - all those hardened terrorists shipped there to begin with? Look up the figures of how many have been released. And the fact that the remaining ones, well, no one has been able to put together a convincing case against them that would work in a court of law - so we can't charge them in court, but we have enough to torture them? Smooth.

Oh, and the fact - "Does the US have the authority to torture citizens of another nation on the suspicion of terrorism" - because potential Iraqi terrorists captured in Iraq are still Iraqi - and by legal processes I don't believe the US has the authority to do such things to them.

Originally posted by Kinneary
Has anyone else realized that when liberal and conservatives argue, it's just days upon days of the pot calling the kettle black?

Both are well intentioned. But how about instead of insulting your opponent, you have a civil debate? Both of you think you're right obviously, and insulting or getting insulted isn't going to change what either of you think.

when someone willingly denies solid evidence that they are wrong, i cannot respect their opinion, because they are logically and possibly mentally deficient.

i know its tough to watch....so.......maybe you shouldnt

Originally posted by Kinneary
Has anyone else realized that when liberal and conservatives argue, it's just days upon days of the pot calling the kettle black?

Both are well intentioned. But how about instead of insulting your opponent, you have a civil debate? Both of you think you're right obviously, and insulting or getting insulted isn't going to change what either of you think.

Like PVS said, when someone(Darth Kreiger) is wrong, they are wrong. When someone(KharmaDog) is right, they are right.

There really isn't anything to get confused about.

I am constantly surprised by how easily people forget their own history. Some of you sound EXACTLY like those americans who argued against our entering wwII. If you cant see that we are in reality in a war with militant islam and that police actions were no longer effective then nothimg I could say will change your mind. But if you like your freedom to speak your mind and do what you please and THINK what you please
then you should thank your god, whichever that may be, that we went ahead and started this war. Does it militantize some of the muslim population? Of course, any resonable person would deduce that. Just like 9/11 made us want to go to war. But we can not stop this war untill it is done! If we do we will have wasted all those good men for nothing.

again, why did we invade iraq. i wonder why over 40% of americans surveyed are stupid enough to be convinced that iraq and 9/11 were connected in any way when the president had admitted that there was none after all.

maybe you could enlighten me. or you can just vomit out some more nonsensicle talking points from 3 years ago which were factually proven wrong. after all, if you chant it enough, it becomes true.

and oh i forgot, im supposed to respect the opinions of others which are based entirely on lies.

Originally posted by hardwoodman
I am constantly surprised by how easily people forget their own history. Some of you sound EXACTLY like those americans who argued against our entering wwII. If you cant see that we are in reality in a war with militant islam and that police actions were no longer effective then nothimg I could say will change your mind. But if you like your freedom to speak your mind and do what you please and THINK what you please
then you should thank your god, whichever that may be, that we went ahead and started this war. Does it militantize some of the muslim population? Of course, any resonable person would deduce that. Just like 9/11 made us want to go to war. But we can not stop this war untill it is done! If we do we will have wasted all those good men for nothing.

Pretty much.

We have to be in it to win it.

They are, and will not stop unless our entire country converts to Islam.

If we don't, we are "infidels" fit for killing.


Those are not my words, but the words of those who plan and execute the murder of thousands of Americans at a time.


So, either we convert to Islam, or we destroy these F*ckers here and now, preferably in their own region of the world.




Which brings us to the true reason for the War in Iraq (not Saddam, not WMD, not oil, not Haliburton, which are all side effects):


For strategic position in the broader scale of this "holy war". (again, not my words but the terrorists)

If Israel supports us, and we have Iraq as a base of operations, then war with Syria, Iran, Pakistan, and any other Muslim country's whose populations hate our support of Jewish/Christian nations will be much easier.


And it will come to that, believe me.

If it takes 10 years and 10,000 American lives (which would be what, less than 10% of how many we lost in WWII?) to secure Iraq, it will be needed against the threat that we face in these times.

Bush knows this, and just like his Supreme Court nominations, he's playing this game so that we win it in the next 25 years, not for what's happening in the world right now.


After the next terrorist attack on U.S. soil, people won't care anymore and will just want this shit handled.

All these debates that we have now will be pointless.


As for the report, yeah Iraq has created more pissed off Islamic radicals than there were, but something else would have gotten them mad anyway.

I highly doubt that they were just gonna leave us alone, as WTC I and its far scarier sequel WTC II, the U.S. embassy bombings, the U.S.S. Cole, and the foiled airplane plot in England have proved.

All the war did was intensify and speed up the inevitable.

If it gives us a second democratic, non-muslim country in the region that we can use for military operations and count on for support.....



Then THAT would truly be "Mission Accomplished."

Originally posted by sithsaber408
either we convert to Islam, or we destroy these F*ckers here and now, preferably in their own region of the world.


Originally posted by sithsaber408
If it gives us a second democratic, non-muslim country in the region that we can use for military operations and count on for support.....



Then THAT would truly be "Mission Accomplished."

and you are a genocide supporting piece of lowlife scum.

:edit: but at least you had the balls to say it, which is more than i can say for your PC code speaking pussy peers.

So, pvs, only lowlife scum think that these guys are comming for us? And I agree with the other lowlife genocidal scumbag, it was wmd or any of that stuff; they were just the easiest. And in the right locale. And had a majority sheia population that had been oppresed and murdered for decades. So they were easy! and of course they were shooting at our pilots every day, WHICH MADE IT EASY! So sit whever you are in your smugness but even worms appreciate their liberty. And good men, better than YOU, go to their deaths every day protecting people just like you.

nice try at blurring a war on militant fundamentalist terrorists...etc... with his point of eliminating an entire religion through genocide. great stuff.

yes, only lowlife scum feel that an entire people of a religion should be exterminated. yes. fact. scum. lowlife scum.


so take your browbeating pseudo-patriotic spin about dishonoring troops and cram them up your ass. are we clear? do you need me to elaborate further? or are we good?

Tou sound like a real tuff guy......he says while shakin in his boots

Originally posted by PVS
and you are a genocide supporting piece of lowlife scum.

:edit: but at least you had the balls to say it, which is more than i can say for your PC code speaking pussy peers.

Thanks, but you are wrong.Originally posted by PVS
nice try at blurring a war on militant fundamentalist terrorists...etc... with his point of eliminating an entire religion through genocide. great stuff.

yes, only lowlife scum feel that an entire people of a religion should be exterminated.

I am talking about the former, not the latter.

I never said a word about all people in that religion, I said I was talking about the ones who have declared to us: "Turn your country to Islam or die.".....

Translate: Islamic militant fundamentalist terrorist.

And what I said about making Iraq a base of operations was for waging a war against them.

Where you got that I want to kill every muslim I don't know.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
If it gives us a second democratic, non-muslim country in the region that we can use for military operations and count on for support.....



Then THAT would truly be "Mission Accomplished."


so you didnt mean that? then be noble and stand corrected

Methinks he's havin a kniption!!!!!

Originally posted by hardwoodman
Tou sound like a real tuff guy......he says while shakin in his boots

oh lets not flex nuts. im not the one accusing others of betraying our troops. ok toughy?

Originally posted by hardwoodman
Methinks he's havin a kniption!!!!!

wtf is a kniption? is that some sort of skin fungus?

I am not worthy of such an erudite parlay. And I dont want to raise your blood pressure any more than it is, so I'll just leave u 2 stew n ur own juice bye now!!

kthxbye

Originally posted by PVS
so you didnt mean that? then be noble and stand corrected

I am noble and will certainly stand corrected.

However, let me clarify the point:

I meant a democratic, non-muslim extremist country in the region that we could count on for support.


That is the true purpose of the war in Iraq, as I see it anyway.

Obviously most of the people in the country of Iraq will believe in Islam, as they always have.

I wasn't advocating the wide spread wipe-out of all Muslim's, just the radicals that plan and commit mass murder.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
I am noble and will certainly stand corrected.

However, let me clarify the point:

I meant a democratic, non-muslim extremist country in the region that we could count on for support.


That is the true purpose of the war in Iraq, as I see it anyway.

Obviously most of the people in the country of Iraq will believe in Islam, as they always have.

I wasn't advocating the wide spread wipe-out of all Muslim's, just the radicals that plan and commit mass murder.

then i will take back what i said....about you

Thank you, Paul.

Very nice of you.



Will WHOB take the bait?

Ahh, The Daily Show...the only real news-show around...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIybRwBDhQo

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
I never Justified it(though I'm sure a few of them deserved it)

That there, that's justifying it. Excellent work making yourself look completely contradictory, or full of sh*t.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Skipping this post, since again, several of the people there were Insurgents

O.K. were "several of the people" insurgents or was it that' the people in that Prison were Insurgents/Terrorists, that is why it was guarded by the Military? Your inconsistancy does not help anything you say.


Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
What I said, was torturing Terrorists, and you told me to think outside the box, and be humain to them, so technically, that IS what you said.

I told you to think outside the box in order to see how Iraqi civilians, and citizens from other countries might see the actions of the American administration. By doing this one could get a clearer grasp of why things are currentl so f*cked up.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Yes, I'm wrong because you say I'm wrong

No, you are wrong because you are wrong.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
we torture Terrorists, OK? The people in Gitmo are tortured, those people in Prison that arn't Terrorists, just get Prisoner Treatment.

Once again, you are wrong...and either naive or grossly misinformed.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
And yes, I support Torture, I can't possibly fathom how being nice to a person that wants to kill us will work, but ok, you go with that, and watch them tell nothing. I do support Torture, what is wrong with Torturing Terrorists?

Torture does not work. It has been proven again and again that it does not yeild results. Do you think that the women who admitted to being witches durig the Salem witch trials actually think that they were witches?

Torture only serves only to ignite the side of the opposition. Do you think that the Television stations televised the decapitation videos of american citizens for the news value? By merely telling about it they would have informed us of the events. By televising the actual tortur or video they incited a response.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
For this last post, you have supported a Lack of Credibility, you think all Conservatives are Moronic Douchebags that want War, and killing of poor innocents.

I refer you to an earlier quote from you with the exception of one minor word substitution, " you seem to get that with the Ancient Conservative Secret of Word Twisting.

You seem to either make up your facts or try to make this a conservative vs. liberal debate. Neither work. Facts are facts, logic is logic and I suggest you learn that.

Also, I am not a liberal, nor am I a conservative. I do not base my beliefs about capital punishment , abortion, war, or anything else along party lines as that is stupid. So please stop making yourself look foolish.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Get out of your shell, stop trying to make the World Perfect, we need to do some Dark things in order to fight these people who will stop at nothing to chop off your head

That is the same logic that a terrorist uses. EXACTLY THE SAME!!!

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
A lot of people realize it and don't like it. But what the Hell are commonfolk like myself gonna do other than say "Boohoo, I don't like that!"

It's called impeachment. And if you and every other person out there that doesn't like it realized that the buck doesn't actually stop with the president, but rather with the American people, then the "commonfolk" wouldn't be so complacient. I'm not saying you don't know that, but more along the lines of what are you prepared to do about it? Go and vote, read more than one newspaper or website. Better information, and more importantly well-rounded information, are what make a person informed enough to make a compotent descision when casting a vote for a candidate. I think the greatest dis-service commited on election day is that little box that you can check to vote straight on one party. People who check that box really should be ashamed of themselves because it's a lazy way to get the job done quickly and feel better about yourself just because you went to vote.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
That there, that's justifying it. Excellent work making yourself look completely contradictory, or full of sh*t.



O.K. were "several of the people" insurgents or was it that' the people in that Prison were Insurgents/Terrorists, that is why it was guarded by the Military? Your inconsistancy does not help anything you say.




I told you to think outside the box in order to see how Iraqi civilians, and citizens from other countries might see the actions of the American administration. By doing this one could get a clearer grasp of why things are currentl so f*cked up.



No, you are wrong because you are wrong.



Once again, you are wrong...and either naive or grossly misinformed.



Torture does not work. It has been proven again and again that it does not yeild results. Do you think that the women who admitted to being witches durig the Salem witch trials actually think that they were witches?

Torture only serves only to ignite the side of the opposition. Do you think that the Television stations televised the decapitation videos of american citizens for the news value? By merely telling about it they would have informed us of the events. By televising the actual tortur or video they incited a response.



I refer you to an earlier quote from you with the exception of one minor word substitution, " you seem to get that with the Ancient Conservative Secret of Word Twisting.

You seem to either make up your facts or try to make this a conservative vs. liberal debate. Neither work. Facts are facts, logic is logic and I suggest you learn that.

Also, I am not a liberal, nor am I a conservative. I do not base my beliefs about capital punishment , abortion, war, or anything else along party lines as that is stupid. So please stop making yourself look foolish.



That is the same logic that a terrorist uses. EXACTLY THE SAME!!!
no Why are you attempting continue this?