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Ok I think i'll talk about my religon for a bit. An important part of Heathenism and Paganism is the astral plane, this can also explain why we believe in the gods.

Reality can be split up into two. We have the earthly plane, which we can consider to be the "real world" and we have the astral plane. When you are dreaming you are in the astral plane.

The astral plane can then be considered to be the place of dreams and of thoughts. Consider this....before you do anything you have to think, thought comes before action even if you are not aware of it. Even when you are wide awake a change in your thoughts can completely change how you percieve reality.

Since our thoughts are what create our reality the astral plane can be considered to be real. In paganism and heathenism (as well as other religons) meditation is an important skill to enable us to try and access the astral plane even when we are awake. Since the astral plane is the place of our thoughts and dreams if we control our dreams and thoughts we control reality

Discuss.

My only gripe about the astral plane is the idea of a plane away from us. All reality is right here.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
My only gripe about the astral plane is the idea of a plane away from us. All reality is right here.

Yeahhhh. I mean perspective can change eveything. You're not wrong thats one way of looking at it, im not wrong its just my way of looking at it.

Glass half full or half empty?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeahhhh. I mean perspective can change eveything. You're not wrong thats one way of looking at it, im not wrong its just my way of looking at it.

Glass half full or half empty?

The idea of a place separate from us is not a bad idea by its self. The problem comes in when dogma is based on the idea that a plane, or god, or heaven & hell are separate from this existence. Just look at Christianity, everything is over there, when you die or the heaven/hell thing.

I also dislike anything separate from reality. If something exists, it exists. There is no reality outside the one we exist in. I dislike the idea of anything being beyond this plane of existence.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok I think i'll talk about my religon for a bit. An important part of Heathenism and Paganism is the astral plane, this can also explain why we believe in the gods.

Reality can be split up into two. We have the earthly plane, which we can consider to be the "real world" and we have the astral plane. When you are dreaming you are in the astral plane.

The astral plane can then be considered to be the place of dreams and of thoughts. Consider this....before you do anything you have to think, thought comes before action even if you are not aware of it. Even when you are wide awake a change in your thoughts can completely change how you percieve reality.

Since our thoughts are what create our reality the astral plane can be considered to be real. In paganism and heathenism (as well as other religons) meditation is an important skill to enable us to try and access the astral plane even when we are awake. Since the astral plane is the place of our thoughts and dreams if we control our dreams and thoughts we control reality

Discuss.

So what is there to stop multiple astral planes?

The astral plane is very well know in esoterism and mysticism. The idea of the astral plane that you see today came specially from hinduism. They divided the existence in seven metaphysical levels called "planes of existence", and the third one if you start counting from the physical is the astral plane.

Thats the general idea about the astral plane that you will find in almost any place, like hermetism, freemansonry, theosophy or other factions. Sometimes the astral plane is also called psychic plane.

The astral plane is associated to the instinctive emotional mind of the human being... the animal emotional part of the being, kinda like the ID of the psychology.

The seven planes in order are : physical, etheric, astral, mental, manasic, buddhic and atmic.

Originally posted by Atlantis001
...kinda like the ID of the psychology.

"kinda like the ID of the psychoanalysis" Many of us dislike Freud and his crap with strong enthusiasm, and have never accepted him as a psychologist regardless of any contribution that psychoanalysis had to mentalist schools of psychology.

Originally posted by Regret
"kinda like the ID of the psychoanalysis" Many of us dislike Freud and his crap with strong enthusiasm, and have never accepted him as a psychologist regardless of any contribution that psychoanalysis had to mentalist schools of psychology.

Thats just an example, think of it like instinctive emotional mind, or primitive mind, animal part of the self... whatever....

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The idea of a place separate from us is not a bad idea by its self. The problem comes in when dogma is based on the idea that a plane, or god, or heaven & hell are separate from this existence. Just look at Christianity, everything is over there, when you die or the heaven/hell thing.

Originally posted by Regret
I also dislike anything separate from reality. If something exists, it exists. There is no reality outside the one we exist in. I dislike the idea of anything being beyond this plane of existence.

To tell you the truth there is no concept of the astral plane in heathenism, its is more of a wiccan concept. Its just that some heathens practice magick and modern books on magick refer to the astral plane so sometimes we are forced to use these terms.

To be quite honest with you I was trying to explain to the layman or the athiest how the existence of gods is not a crazy idea.

To tell you the truth the idea of an astral plane can be a dangerous concept. In my opinion if you look at pagan magic or heathen magic in the past there is no concept of the astral plane or even visualisation techniques you simply did what you do and certain things would happen.

I essentially do not belive in science I belive in thought because its thought that really makes reality. I belive in the past magic was stronger but we have been indoctrinated to think in a scientific way. in saying that im not going to run out in front of a bus, but I think this is due to the way I have been taught to think about reality.

You have given me alot to think about I think I will reply later with some more input.

Originally posted by Alliance
So what is there to stop multiple astral planes?

Nothing.

Originally posted by Alfheim
To tell you the truth there is no concept of the astral plane in heathenism, its is more of a wiccan concept. Its just that some heathens practice magick and modern books on magick refer to the astral plane so sometimes we are forced to use these terms.

To be quite honest with you I was trying to explain to the layman or the athiest how the existence of gods is not a crazy idea.

To tell you the truth the idea of an astral plane can be a dangerous concept. In my opinion if you look at pagan magic or heathen magic in the past there is no concept of the astral plane or even visualisation techniques you simply did what you do and certain things would happen.

I essentially do not belive in science I belive in thought because its thought that really makes reality. I belive in the past magic was stronger but we have been indoctrinated to think in a scientific way. in saying that im not going to run out in front of a bus, but I think this is due to the way I have been taught to think about reality.

You have given me alot to think about I think I will reply later with some more input.



Nothing.

Originally posted by Atlantis001
The astral plane is very well know in esoterism and mysticism. The idea of the astral plane that you see today came specially from hinduism. They divided the existence in seven metaphysical levels called "planes of existence", and the third one if you start counting from the physical is the astral plane.

Thats the general idea about the astral plane that you will find in almost any place, like hermetism, freemansonry, theosophy or other factions. Sometimes the astral plane is also called psychic plane.

The astral plane is associated to the instinctive emotional mind of the human being... the animal emotional part of the being, kinda like the ID of the psychology.

The seven planes in order are : physical, etheric, astral, mental, manasic, buddhic and atmic.

This is getting deep.......

Double post, sorry!!!!!!

Isn't that the shuttle flight between Fresno and San Diego?

But seriously, folks...
Building on some of what's already been said: the astral plane is one of the levels of reality as described by the perennial philosophy, the "common thread" running through all mystical schools of thought. While all levels of reality (specifically, all levels of complexity, integration and consciousness) form one Infinite Organic Whole, there are obviously differentiations between the levels, the lower ones being regarded simply as the physical, biological and mental. Next is astral.

Unlike the physical, biological and mental (again, note the increasing trend of complexity and awareness), we are not ordinarily aware of the astral for one of two reasons:
1. As a species, we have not evolved to the point where being aware of the astral plane confers some significant survival advantage.
2. It doesn't exist.
In either event, what we do experience on a regular basis that is closest to the astral plane is dreaming, especially lucid dreaming (some may feel, in fact, that the fundamental difference between dreaming and astral existence is that, in dreaming, attention is still focused upon and within the body, whereas with astral awareness, one does a "180-degree turn" and is now focused on what's beyond the body).

Originally posted by Mindship

Unlike the physical, biological and mental (again, note the increasing trend of complexity and awareness), we are not ordinarily aware of the astral for one of two reasons:
1. As a species, we have not evolved to the point where being aware of the astral plane confers some significant survival advantage.

Or when a person does access it he is told he is mad.

Originally posted by Mindship

2. It doesn't exist.
In either event, what we do experience on a regular basis that is closest to the astral plane is dreaming, especially lucid dreaming (some may feel, in fact, that the fundamental difference between dreaming and astral existence is that, in dreaming, attention is still focused upon and within the body, whereas with astral awareness, one does a "180-degree turn" and is now focused on what's beyond the body).

If humans did not think there would be no astral plane.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Or when a person does access it he is told he is mad.

Well, if the astral plane does Not exist, the tellers are right.

If the astral plane Does exist, then the accessor may be able to take comfort in knowing that he/she is the one who's right and everyone else is missing out on something beautiful and awesome.

Personally, I am open to the possibility, but as the saying goes, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Originally posted by Mindship
Well, if the astral plane does Not exist, the tellers are right.

If the astral plane Does exist, then the accessor may be able to take comfort in knowing that he/she is the one who's right and everyone else is missing out on something beautiful and awesome.

Personally, I am open to the possibility, but as the saying goes, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Im not sure I undertsand wht you are getting at. The existence of the astral plane essentially is just one way of describing reality. Is the glass half full or half empty? Its the same with the astral plane it depends on your perspective.

The only thing I know about the Astral plane is that it is very useful for getting to Sigil, the Nine Hells, Celestia or any other plane in the D&D Planar Handbook.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6797/sign7bz.png

Originally posted by Atlantis001
Yeah, thats the homeplane of the Githyanki right !?

Actually I thought that was Limbo.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6797/sign7bz.png

Originally posted by Atlantis001
Nope, thats the home of the Githzerai...

Oi! This is going off-topic.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Oi! This is going off-topic.

err... sorry

Originally posted by Atlantis001
err... sorry

Well im not that bothered but sometimes its irritating when a person starts talking about paganism or heathenism and then a person starts talking about rpgs.

Okay lets get back on topic:

One interesting way to view the astral plane is to compare it to what the greeks thought about the soul.

They divided the self between three levels ; body, mind and spirit. The mind could be "connected" in some sense to the body or the spirit. When the mind was connected to the body then the person was a materialistic one or was not open to divine enlightenment, something like that. An 'enlightned' or 'annointed' person would be a person who had its mind connected to the spirit. The astral plane is the mind when it is connected to the body in the greek description above.

And just as a curiosity, the concept of holy spirit is associated to this. As many people know the holy spirit has its origins from the greeks. The holy spirit will be the mind when it is connected to the spirit, thats why the holy spirit is associated to the manifestation of God within oneself. Someone is 'annointed' or 'enlightned' when she/he have the holy spirit.

That is what chirst means too, it comes from the greek word 'chrestos' what means exactly 'annointed'.

I believe there very well may be an astral plane.......