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its official. bush can set the standards of torture, he can detain/torture anyone, and any american....forever if he wishes.

the "bias liberal" AP shrugs off any possibility of abuse of power, like the good little whores that they are:




its over. we have officially lost the moral high ground. we will be torturing people with the same methods of which japanese interrigators were charged as criminals after WW2. and this is what will be on record not only that, but as the case with the iraq war, our utterly useless congress and house approves an unconditional bill based on "trust me, ill do the right thing".

the brutality which will be committed from this point will be what smears our image for generations to come, and i hope that as was the case in germany after their defeat, every fukwit who blindly trusted this man will be marched into the prison camps to witness the attrocities they blindly supported

Originally posted by PVS




its over. we have officially lost the moral high ground. we will be torturing people with the same methods of which japanese interrigators were charged as criminals after WW2. and this is what will be on record not only that, but as the case with the iraq war, our utterly useless congress and house approves an unconditional bill based on "trust me, ill do the right thing".



Lost the moral high ground? Have you noticed how the enemy treats their prisoners? I think we're pretty safe about having the moral high ground.

Same methods the Japanese were charged with? Last time I checked they were accused of stuff quite a bit worse than cold rooms and bad music.

Definitions of torture

When we do it - Sleep deprivation, mild hypothermia

When they do it - beatings, kanings, fire ants, near drownings, witnessing companions executions.

Yeah, those are totally the same.

Originally posted by docb77
Lost the moral high ground? Have you noticed how the enemy treats their prisoners? I think we're pretty safe about having the moral high ground.

Same methods the Japanese were charged with? Last time I checked they were accused of stuff quite a bit worse than cold rooms and bad music.

Definitions of torture

When we do it - Sleep deprivation, mild hypothermia

When they do it - beatings, kanings, fire ants, near drownings, witnessing companions executions.

Yeah, those are totally the same.


Reality check, those are things we do now to make sure we aren't excessive because there are penalties to those who violate laws.

Now we have lost a system of checks and balances, more importantly this allows for much worse and for it to be "ok."

I heard some Republican - it may even have been Bush himself - on CNN saying "anyone who doesn't agree with this measure wants terrorists to kill Americans"...hahahahahahaha...Oh, wait; it's not funny.

Originally posted by docb77
Lost the moral high ground? Have you noticed how the enemy treats their prisoners? I think we're pretty safe about having the moral high ground.

Based on this quote, I don't think you even know what the term 'moral high ground' means.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo

Based on this quote, I don't think you even know what the term 'moral high ground' means.

hmm... just offhand, I'd say it means holding ourselves to a higher "moral" standard than the other guy. It means our position is more inherently right.

Personally I'd think we'd lose the moral high ground if we didn't do everything in our power to eliminate those who want to kill americans.


Just as an offhand comment, how do liberals justify making any comments about the moral high ground when they at the same time are big about moral equivalency and that other systems are just as good as ours?

Originally posted by docb77
hmm... just offhand, I'd say it means holding ourselves to a higher "moral" standard than the other guy. It means our position is more inherently right.

Personally I'd think we'd lose the moral high ground if we didn't do everything in our power to eliminate those who want to kill americans.

I see that your comprehension of 'moral high ground' strangely parallels your government's belief that their way is the right way because it serves Americans, while showing utter disdain for the how the rest of the world believes other human beings should be treated. That's nice. Going about things in that manner will surely make the world a better place...

Just like Bush proclaims it will.

Why didn't they just call it an "enabling act".

http://gallery.brawl-hall.com/data/media66542/10/bush_finger.jpg

Go DUBYA!

The funny thing is that he's sticking that finger up the ass of America, too. The even funnier thing is that people like you don't get it.

Ha.

http://www.ondmis.dk/billeder/forumpics/homocommunist.jpg

For all in this thread who seem to have a problem with being tough to those who have no problem beheading people on T.V. and showing us the footage to watch them scream as their throats are sliced.....



Stand aside whilst the men do what needs to be done, ya pussies.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
The funny thing is that he's sticking that finger up the ass of America, too. The even funnier thing is that people like you don't get it.

Ha.

or more to the point scream "YES!!! OH GOD YES!!! DEEPER!!!! HARDER!!!! NOW TELL ME IM A DIRTY WHORE!!!!"

Originally posted by sithsaber408
http://www.ondmis.dk/billeder/forumpics/homocommunist.jpg

For all in this thread who seem to have a problem with being tough to those who have no problem beheading people on T.V. and showing us the footage to watch them scream as their throats are sliced.....

straw man for the win

derp de derp look at all da pretty pictures

why dont you lookup "goatse" on google and see your attitude toward dubya

Originally posted by sithsaber408
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/2201/bushfingerhitkl4.jpg

Hail DUBYA!

Originally posted by sithsaber408


Just because someone does a horrible act does that mean we need to one up them? Probably not I'm thinking.

What happened to turn the other cheek?

Originally posted by PVS
its official. bush can set the standards of torture, he can detain/torture anyone, and any american....forever if he wishes.

the "bias liberal" AP shrugs off any possibility of abuse of power, like the good little whores that they are:




its over. we have officially lost the moral high ground. we will be torturing people with the same methods of which japanese interrigators were charged as criminals after WW2. and this is what will be on record not only that, but as the case with the iraq war, our utterly useless congress and house approves an unconditional bill based on "trust me, ill do the right thing".

the brutality which will be committed from this point will be what smears our image for generations to come, and i hope that as was the case in germany after their defeat, every fukwit who blindly trusted this man will be marched into the prison camps to witness the attrocities they blindly supported

If they're torturing our boys, then I don't see we why can't do the same. "The US is morally better than that blah blah blah", **** that shit!

http://sam.zoy.org/goatse/bushse.jpg

Originally posted by sithsaber408
http://www.ondmis.dk/billeder/forumpics/homocommunist.jpg

For all in this thread who seem to have a problem with being tough to those who have no problem beheading people on T.V. and showing us the footage to watch them scream as their throats are sliced.....



Stand aside whilst the men do what needs to be done, ya pussies.

I really don't see how torturing people helps, how disobeying the laws every civilized country in this world agreed with except for the US helps, how lowering yourself to the level of your opponents and sometimes worse helps, perhaps i'm missing the picture here. But this is torture and there is a reason why its illegal and there is a reason why after most wars in the past people have been trialed and often executed for crimes like this.

If the US would submit its leaders to the International court in The Hague almost everyone of them would be trialed and probably be found guilty of crimes against humanity. The US isn't doing what's necessary.

I do think Bush is a dumbass for announcing it to the world. If you're gonna torture people, then keep it on the DL, don't put it on a neon sign for all to see.

Bush grants self permission to grant self more power.

Originally posted by Mr. Sandman
Bush grants self permission to grant self more power.

All this "granting unconditional power" talk is making me think of Jar Jar Binks...

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
If they're torturing our boys, then I don't see we why can't do the same. "The US is morally better than that blah blah blah", **** that shit! \

thats great. so when they retaliate by televising medival remenicant tourture, we should up the ante too. then when they start killing babies, we'll do the same. its ok when we do it, cuz we're AMURICAN!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
All this "granting unconditional power" talk is making me think of Jar Jar Binks...

Did you read the link?

Originally posted by Mr. Sandman
Did you read the link?

you know that the onion is satire, right?

Originally posted by docb77
Lost the moral high ground? Have you noticed how the enemy treats their prisoners? I think we're pretty safe about having the moral high ground.

Same methods the Japanese were charged with? Last time I checked they were accused of stuff quite a bit worse than cold rooms and bad music.

Definitions of torture

When we do it - Sleep deprivation, mild hypothermia

When they do it - beatings, kanings, fire ants, near drownings, witnessing companions executions.

Yeah, those are totally the same.

That's the whole point, some people (wackjob liberals) see making a guy stand naked in a cold room while listening to Barry Manilow as being on the same level as beating a guy almost to death. Go figure.

Originally posted by Robtard
That's the whole point, some people (wackjob liberals) see making a guy stand naked in a cold room while listening to Barry Manilow as being on the same level as beating a guy almost to death. Go figure.

Who cares if it is on the same level, it is both against the humanistic ideals the US pretends to stand for.

Originally posted by PVS
you know that the onion is satire, right?

I was going to post something very sarcastic and mean spirited, but I decided against it.

I'll go with a simple 'yes' instead.

Originally posted by PVS
\

thats great. so when they retaliate by televising medival remenicant tourture, we should up the ante too. then when they start killing babies, we'll do the same. its ok when we do it, cuz we're AMURICAN!!!!!!!!!!!

That begs the question, do you think we 'torture' people to make a statement as they do or do you think we 'torture' people to gain information that could save lives?

Originally posted by Robtard
That's the whole point, some people (wackjob liberals) see making a guy stand naked in a cold room while listening to Barry Manilow as being on the same level as beating a guy almost to death. Go figure.

is that all the opposition has to offer is strawman tactics?
form a valid opinion, and then come back to us.

Originally posted by Mr. Sandman
I was going to post something very sarcastic and mean spirited, but I decided against it.

I'll go with a simple 'yes' instead.

you're no fun

It's not exactly unexpected that something like this would be passed. Since he came into office, legislation has tended to be signed with additional documents that basically allow the Executive to ignore or be exempt from the legislation.

There's a reason evidence given under duress isn't legally admissible.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Who cares if it is on the same level, it is both against the humanistic ideals the US pretends to stand for.

Well mainly because beating someone to near death and then beheading them is FAR different than bright lights, bad music and being kept up for 72 hours. They are two totally different animals.

Originally posted by PVS
is that all the opposition has to offer is strawman tactics?
form a valid opinion, and then come back to us.

How is that a strawman? You're the one comparing apples to oranges.

Originally posted by Robtard
That begs the question, do you think we 'torture' people to make a statement as they do or do you think we 'torture' people to gain information that could save lives?

well, the other question begged is "does it matter" since so many people feel content being "tough" on terror SUSPECTS. so really it seems to me (given the opinions i come across) that its a form of punishment as much as extracting unreliable information.

and furthermore with the passing of this bill, if i was in the military i would demand to have a cyanide capsule on my person at all times for fear of retribution of what our government is planning to do.

people love to be deliberate and dress it all down, as if it will not be brutal enough to think of aushwitz, but...they are frikin idiots who are the fuel for dictators and should die....consciously lying and decieving to protect the idea that their leader is perfect in every way, and that no matter what horrible evil we commit, its all justified. the proof is in the quotes here, and opinions reflected in the media.

Originally posted by Robtard
Well mainly because beating someone to near death and then beheading them is FAR different than bright lights, bad music and being kept up for 72 hours. They are two totally different animals.

Who cares if it is on the same level, it is both against the humanistic ideals the US pretends to stand for.

Originally posted by PVS
\

thats great. so when they retaliate by televising medival remenicant tourture, we should up the ante too. then when they start killing babies, we'll do the same. its ok when we do it, cuz we're AMURICAN!!!!!!!!!!!

If a squad of soldiers somewhere in Middle-of-Nowhere, Iraq have a prisoner and they tortue him on the regular, I don't blame those kids in the least. They're in a living Hell, their buddies are dying all the time, they don't if they'll be alive tommorow, and they KNOW that those ****ers are doing the same to US prisoners. I don't blame the troops in the least.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
If a squad of soldiers somewhere in Middle-of-Nowhere, Iraq have a prisoner and they tortue him on the regular, I don't blame those kids in the least. They're in a living Hell, their buddies are dying all the time, they don't if they'll be alive tommorow, and they KNOW that those ****ers are doing the same to US prisoners. I don't blame the troops in the least.

then you are just as amoral as those who torture our troops and thus no better. what makes you better? "they started it?" please, say that so it will be clear for all to see....say it.

I like Japanese vivisection better, personally.

Originally posted by PVS
is that all the opposition has to offer is strawman tactics?
form a valid opinion, and then come back to us.

So all you really want is an opinion? OK, here's one, and it's just as valid as yours:

Those terrorist scum ceased to be human a long time ago and therefore don't deserve "human rights".

Our soldiers on the other hand (the ones who get beheaded on video if they get captured), should be treated according to the geneva conventions.

Like the terrorists are going to change the way they treat our guys if we change the way we treat theirs, give me a break.

Originally posted by docb77
Those terrorist scum ceased to be human a long time ago and therefore don't deserve "human rights".

Our soldiers on the other hand (the ones who get beheaded on video if they get captured), should be treated according to the geneva conventions.

Holy McHell.

The moral highground is saved for those that don't go to war. Torture is just icing on the cake really.

Allowing anything to go with torture is assinine in my opinion however gathering information as robtard has said seems actually reasonable, lol.

Originally posted by docb77
So all you really want is an opinion? Your opinion being based upon a reversal of one of the most fundamental precepts of modern law.

Originally posted by docb77
Those terrorist scum ceased to be human a long time ago and therefore don't deserve "human rights".
Snap.

The problem with any torture is that it becomes overused. It becomes a lazy man's interrogation technique.

Originally posted by docb77
So all you really want is an opinion? OK, here's one, and it's just as valid as yours:

Those terrorist scum ceased to be human a long time ago and therefore don't deserve "human rights".

Our soldiers on the other hand (the ones who get beheaded on video if they get captured), should be treated according to the geneva conventions.

Like the terrorists are going to change the way they treat our guys if we change the way we treat theirs, give me a break.



they are terror SUSPECTS. anyone can be a suspect. lets sit you down and explain due process.

yes i get it. our soldiers are real humans, as opposed to those brown people who live on top of our oil. they look like terrorists, so if suspect they automatically are not human. great logic
now i see. we must become a nation of lowlife sadistic scumbags because the terrorists are lowlife sadistic scumbags.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Who cares if it is on the same level, it is both against the humanistic ideals the US pretends to stand for.

That is the whole point, you are equating a beheading for the sole purpose of spreading fear as being equal to keeping a guy awake past this bedtime to gain information that could save lifes.

I am not for torture at all personally, but if lives are at stake and a criminal has information that could save those lifes, keep the fcker up a few days, blast him with Manilow, make him sleep naked in a cold room.

The only problem I do see here is this 'torture' going unchecked and stepping into the lines of real torture i.e. severe beatings, starvation, burnings etc.

Originally posted by Robtard
That is the whole point, you are equating a beheading for the sole purpose of spreading fear as being equal to keeping a guy awake past this bedtime to gain information that could save lifes.

deliberate lying and dressing down of the issue. speaking of sleeping at night, how do you do it?

Originally posted by Robtard
The only problem I do see here is this 'torture' going unchecked and stepping into the lines of real torture i.e. severe beatings, starvation, burnings etc.

we've BEEN doing that!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Robtard
That is the whole point, you are equating a beheading for the sole purpose of spreading fear as being equal to keeping a guy awake past this bedtime to gain information that could save lifes.

I am not for torture at all personally, but if lives are at stake and a criminal has information that could save those lifes, keep the fcker up a few days, blast him with Manilow, make him sleep naked in a cold room.

The only problem I do see here is this 'torture' going unchecked and stepping into the lines of real torture i.e. severe beatings, starvation, burnings etc.

I am not. Beheading is worse in my book. Keeping someone awake in the cold for 72 hours is wrong to me as well...

Originally posted by PVS
then you are just as amoral as those who torture our troops and thus no better. what makes you better? "they started it?" please, say that so it will be clear for all to see....say it.

Fine, I'll say it, I don't give a shit. I'm a firm believer in revenge getting your just desserts.

For such a litigious nation things like detention without charge, the extraction of evidence or information by way of torture or duress, and the reversal of the presumption of innocence seem to go down pretty easily. Curiouser and curiouser.

Originally posted by docb77
Those terrorist scum ceased to be human a long time ago and therefore don't deserve "human rights".

I love this , I used to think like this before i realised how stupid and barbaric it is . So your basically saying Docb77 , that being a religious fanatic or defending ones countries/ideals stops someone being human ?

Because if so then you have just dropped yourself into a HUGE pile of cacky , considering that a LAAAAARGE number your 'troops' (Aka the American people) are near enough fanatics.


Originally posted by docb77
Our soldiers on the other hand (the ones who get beheaded on video if they get captured), should be treated according to the geneva conventions.

Oh just like those poor bastards who were caught in Guantanamo Bay

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Fine, I'll say it, I don't give a shit. I'm a firm believer in revenge getting your just desserts.

Torturing possibly innocent people is not revenge, dude.

Originally posted by PVS
well, the other question begged is "does it matter" since so many people feel content being "tough" on terror SUSPECTS. so really it seems to me (given the opinions i come across) that its a form of punishment as much as extracting unreliable information.

and furthermore with the passing of this bill, if i was in the military i would demand to have a cyanide capsule on my person at all times for fear of retribution of what our government is planning to do.

people love to be deliberate and dress it all down, as if it will not be brutal enough to think of Auschwitz, but...they are frikin idiots who are the fuel for dictators and should die....consciously lying and decieving to protect the idea that their leader is perfect in every way, and that no matter what horrible evil we commit, its all justified. the proof is in the quotes here, and opinions reflected in the media.


Well, all nations around the world need to be tough on terror. Terrorist do not play by the rules books, they specifically target civilians. Having a lenient hand on terrorist will only provoke further attacks.

Thats not a bad idea, but does it really matter if the bill passed or not? If you were a soldier captured by Al Qaida of any other terrorist group, do you really think they would go easy on you if this bill didn't pass?

See, comparing the technique's we use as being like Auschwitz is dressing it WAY up. Come on man, do you really think a keeping a guy up a few days is equal to slave labor followed by a trip to the gas chamber? As I said below, the only problem I see here is the no checks and balances and someone somewhere crossing the line into real torture.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Torturing possibly innocent people is not revenge, dude.

Nope , just a stress reliever. Screw a cup of coffee I'll go for the branding irons.

Who gets to define "real torture"?

Can I do it? Pick me. Pick me.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Who gets to define "real torture"?

Can I do it? Pick me. Pick me.
I already had a thread about that.

Originally posted by grey fox
Nope , just a stress reliever. Screw a cup of coffee I'll go for the branding irons.

Or you can try both: a cigarette in your mouth, cup of coffee in one hand, and a catttle prod in the other.

^ The ultimate stress reliever.

Originally posted by Robtard
Well, all nations around the world need to be tough on terror. Terrorist do not play by the rules books, they specifically target civilians. Having a lenient hand on terrorist will only provoke further attacks.

Thats not a bad idea, but does it really matter if the bill passed or not? If you were a soldier captured by Al Qaida of any other terrorist group, do you really think they would go easy on you if this bill didn't pass?

See, comparing the technique's we use as being like Auschwitz is dressing it WAY up. Come on man, do you really think a keeping a guy up a few days is equal to slave labor followed by a trip to the gas chamber? As I said below, the only problem I see here is the no checks and balances and someone somewhere crossing the line into real torture.

Honestly it's not todays actions that concern me the most. This opens up doors for atrocities in the future far beyond what we are talking about today.

Originally posted by PVS
deliberate lying and dressing down of the issue. speaking of sleeping at night, how do you do it?



we've BEEN doing that!!!!!!!!!

What am I deliberately lying about?

Abu Ghraib prison right? Yes it was wrong and the people responsible are being dealt with.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Who gets to define "real torture"?

Can I do it? Pick me. Pick me.

Well, hopefully who could discern the difference between a severe near death beating and sleep deprivation.

So are you using a linear or a logarithmic scale?

Originally posted by Soleran
Honestly it's not todays actions that concern me the most. This opens up doors for atrocities in the future far beyond what we are talking about today.

I agree, reason I said 'checks and balances' going out the door.

I already made a thread about that.

Needs more sodium thiopental.

Originally posted by Robtard
Well, all nations around the world need to be tough on terror. Terrorist do not play by the rules books, they specifically target civilians. Having a lenient hand on terrorist will only provoke further attacks.

Originally posted by Robtard
Thats not a bad idea, but does it really matter if the bill passed or not? If you were a soldier captured by Al Qaida of any other terrorist group, do you really think they would go easy on you if this bill didn't pass?

its quite apparent that these jihadists are bent on "eye for an eye" and making it widely publicised. will you understand when our troops are found tortured horribly in retaliation? obviously not since its already happened. every time we publicly up the ante they will follow suit. thats fact. its happened and its happening and it will continue to happen.

Originally posted by Robtard
See, comparing the technique's we use as being like Auschwitz is dressing it WAY up. Come on man, do you really think a keeping a guy up a few days is equal to slave labor followed by a trip to the gas chamber? As I said below, the only problem I see here is the no checks and balances and someone somewhere crossing the line into real torture.

you're doing it again. iraqi police are torturing prisoners in the most horrible ways. a tactic used recently is the surgical removal of kneecaps. u.s. soldiers have repeatedly beaten prisoners to death, among other acts of torture, including even crucifixion. pay attention ffs. and pay attention to the fact that they are not convicted terrorists (althougn they will be thanks to the newly approved military kangaroo court)

the line was already crossed and now it will be justified

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
So are you using a linear or a logarithmic scale?

Bah, we don't even have to get mathercial and scientific about it. Just use your gut instinct.

Originally posted by Robtard
Well, hopefully who could discern the difference between a severe near death beating and sleep deprivation.

Meh , where does desk drawers get involved ?

Originally posted by PVS




we've BEEN doing that!!!!!!!!!

Proof?

Links?

Nada?

Thought so.


Stress positions? Yup.

Sleep depravation? Sure.

Dunking heads in water to point of drowning, allowing terrorist to recover, and doing it again? Uh-huh.

Stress positions, and uncomfortableness? Yup.


If we arent' cutting, slicing, shitting, or spitting, its interregation, not "torture".




That's what they do.

For no reason other than to say "fuk you."

If we were to give out a few black eyes, and a few busted lips in the pursuit of real data that would stop an attack, I wouldn't care, since that's not torture to me either.


Maybe if you took a look at your liberal "due process", and "prisoners rights" at work here in the U.S. you'd realize that our OWN prisoners face those kinds of beatings regularly, both from guards and other inmates.



This debate is bullshit.

We aren't cutting them or maiming them, or burning them with fire and weapons......


They are in turn cutting off heads, and using explosions to kill hundreds or thousands of people at a time.



We don't live in the world that you think we do anymore.

Speaking of religious fanatics.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Speaking of religious fanatics.
I'm not seeing any.

Originally posted by PVS
its quite apparent that these jihadists are bent on "eye for an eye" and making it widely publicised. will you understand when our troops are found tortured horribly in retaliation? obviously not since its already happened. every time we publicly up the ante they will follow suit. thats fact. its happened and its happening and it will continue to happen.



you're doing it again. iraqi police are torturing prisoners in the most horrible ways. a tactic used recently is the surgical removal of kneecaps. u.s. soldiers have repeatedly beaten prisoners to death, among other acts of torture, including even crucifixion. pay attention ffs. and pay attention to the fact that they are not convicted terrorists (althougn they will be thanks to the newly approved military kangaroo court)

the line was already crossed and now it will be justified

Crucifixion :

Jesus.... how is that even possible ?

Originally posted by grey fox
Crucifixion :

Jesus.... how is that even possible ?
Coupla boards, some nails, and a hammer.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Coupla boards, some nails, and a hammer.

HAHAHAHA, I love you man, hahahaha

Originally posted by grey fox
Meh , where does desk drawers get involved ? I'd assume they're about a pH 6 or approximately 200 becquerels per cubic metre.

Originally posted by Bardock42
HAHAHAHA, I love you man, hahahaha
And it turns out that isn't wrong, so hooray.

Originally posted by PVS
its quite apparent that these jihadists are bent on "eye for an eye" and making it widely publicised. will you understand when our troops are found tortured horribly in retaliation? obviously not since its already happened. every time we publicly up the ante they will follow suit. thats fact. its happened and its happening and it will continue to happen.

you're doing it again. iraqi police are torturing prisoners in the most horrible ways. a tactic used recently is the surgical removal of kneecaps. u.s. soldiers have repeatedly beaten prisoners to death, among other acts of torture, including even crucifixion. pay attention ffs. and pay attention to the fact that they are not convicted terrorists (althougn they will be thanks to the newly approved military kangaroo court)

the line was already crossed and now it will be justified

These Jihadist are hell bent on killing period.

Are we talking about what the Iraqis are doing to their own people or America's stance on "torture" usage as a means to gain information to possibly save lives? I am completely against what the Iraqi's do, ever since they took control of Abu Gharib, the screams are endless. As far as our soldiers going over the line, I am against that too and I do not think Shrub signed a bill allowing soldiers to exact revenge at their own discretion.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Coupla boards, some nails, and a hammer.

True , but that'll never hold up , you need DECENT wood. Plus the whole issue of the nails sliding clean through their hands.

Originally posted by FeceMan
And it turns out that isn't wrong, so hooray.

I like your kind of Christian...lets participate in homosexual intercourse...

Originally posted by grey fox
True , but that'll never hold up , you need DECENT wood. Plus the whole issue of the nails sliding clean through their hands.
Just put it through the wrists.
Originally posted by Bardock42
I like your kind of Christian...lets participate in homosexual intercourse...
Tut, tut. Not until we're married.

(See? Even conservative Christians can change their views.)

Originally posted by Bardock42
I like your kind of Christian...lets participate in homosexual intercourse...

*speechless*

Bardock, I had no idea.



....Actually I kinda did

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
*speechless*
I've read worse.

Originally posted by FeceMan

Tut, tut. Not until we're married.

(See? Even conservative Christians can change their views.)

Sounds fair...

They can, they can indeed...Originally posted by Quiero Mota
*speechless*

Bardock, I had no idea.



....Actually I kinda did

Oh, didn't you know, I'm gay. I love the cock.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Just put it through the wrists.


Nah , because then they'll be bleed out to quickly , you need to get THROUGH the bone (which is a *****)

Originally posted by Bardock42
Sounds fair...

They can, they can indeed...

Oh, didn't you know, I'm gay. I love the cock.


@ the graphic bluntness.

So are you the giver or the b*tch?

Originally posted by grey fox
Nah , because then they'll be bleed out to quickly , you need to get THROUGH the bone (which is a *****)

Which makes his sacrifice even more respectable?

Anyways, why did the dude have to die anyways, I mean, couldn't he have used his voodoo magic and just take away the sins of the world like that?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
@ the graphic bluntness.

So are you the giver or the b*tch?

What a sick question...

Originally posted by Bardock42
Which makes his sacrifice even more respectable?

Anyways, why did the dude have to die anyways, I mean, couldn't he have used his voodoo magic and just take away the sins of the world like that?

Were not talking about JESUS , just about how to execute his insanely painful death upon others.

Originally posted by Bardock42
What a sick question...

Look who that comment is coming from!

Bardock le gustan los gallos!!

Originally posted by grey fox
Were not talking about JESUS , just about how to execute his insanely painful death upon others.

I just went with it and started talking about Jesus..in case you didn't notice.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Look who that comment is coming from!

Bardock le gustan los gallos!!

Are you implying I have a sick mind?

Don't scare me with weird terrorist language...

Originally posted by Bardock42
Are you implying I have a sick mind?

Don't scare me with weird terrorist language...

Nope. shifty

And sorry, I'll cease speaking the Devil Tongue.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Nope. shifty

And sorry, I'll cease speaking the Devil Tongue.

Too late...to Guantanamo with you.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Proof?

Links?

Nada?

Thought so.

oh im sorry to interrupt you winning the thread with your own verbal mastrurbation

...well i could post a list of human rights reports complete with references to released information under the freedom of information act:
http://hrw.org/reports/2006/us0706/2.htm
or i can just post little pictures since you seem far too idiotic to deal with all that reading and stuff.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:AbuGhraibScandalGraner55.jpg

which will it be?




Originally posted by sithsaber408

We aren't cutting them or maiming them, or burning them with fire and weapons......


They are in turn cutting off heads, and using explosions to kill hundreds or thousands of people at a time.



We don't live in the world that you think we do anymore.

yeah, read the report, sunshine. or just ignore it...which you predictably will.

Cool.

Glad we settled this, and can move on to enjoying our usual tom-foolery.


I figured it would take the sound defeat of Dem's this Nov. and in '08, coupled with the growing movement of a mass Christian revival that will happen soon to get people to shut their mouths about being nice to terrorists.


It only took 9 pages on KMC!

Originally posted by Bardock42
Too late...to Guantanamo with you.

A Mexican-American getting thought for an Arab and subsequently getting sent to Guantanamo......hey, it could happen.....

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Cool.

Glad we settled this, and can move on to enjoying our usual tom-foolery.

I figured it would take the sound defeat of Dem's this Nov. and in '08, coupled with the growing movement of a mass Christian revival that will happen soon to get people to shut their mouths about being nice to terrorists.

It only took 9 pages on KMC!

"mass Christian revival" Now there's something Americans should be scared of...

Originally posted by Robtard
"mass Christian revival" Now theres something Americans should be scared of...

believe me, i am. my only comfort is people with this "domination through christianity" mindet will most likely rot in the deepest pits of hell for their blasphemy. i love irony

Originally posted by PVS
believe me, i am. my only comfort is people with this "domination through christianity" mindet will most likely rot in the deepest pits of hell for their blasphemy. i love irony

I'd love to think that too, for shits and giggles... But unfortunately, I do not believe there actually is a biblical Heaven/Hell... One can pray for it though I guess.

Originally posted by PVS
oh im sorry to interrupt you winning the thread with your own verbal mastrurbation

...well i could post a list of human rights reports complete with references to released information under the freedom of information act:
http://hrw.org/reports/2006/us0706/2.htm
or i can just post little pictures since you seem far too idiotic to deal with all that reading and stuff.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:AbuGhraibScandalGraner55.jpg

which will it be?






yeah, read the report, sunshine. or just ignore it...which you predictably will.

Sunshine, ... that's cute.


So, my bad are we talking about Abu Graid?


I thought we were talking about Bush having the authority to decide what our soldiers can or can't do in the interregation of terrorists.



Not about abuses that went on which were wrong, and which are being dealt with, or for what the Iraqi's are doing there now.

(makes one wonder how "great" it was under Saddam if the Iraqi prison guards are driven to torture insurgents still loyal to him)


Anyways its besides the point, since nobody is advocating that kind of treatment.

Originally posted by Robtard
"mass Christian revival" Now there's something Americans should be scared of... Originally posted by PVS
believe me, i am. my only comfort is people with this "domination through christianity" mindet will most likely rot in the deepest pits of hell for their blasphemy. i love irony

Geez, tough room

I sit through two pages of crucifiction jokes, but I make a joke about unstoppable rebulican victories and mass religion (it was a joke ) not needed to solve problems, only my good friends at KMC and their infinite wisdom.....


and everbody gets all pissy.

I'll have Bush pray for you.

Then derpive you of sleep.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Not about abuses that went on which were wrong, and which are being dealt with, or for what the Iraqi's are doing there now.

omg is that a direct quote? you are just priceless. any attrocity "is being dealt with" and somewhere oj is looking for the real killer.

first you accuse me of making it up and try to prove youself right by talking to yourself, then when proof is given you hand me that line? quite toolish you are....quite

In the end...

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/8796/customsig66007svgifkb1.jpg

We should line em up like they do in china and shoot all the terrorists in the head. You dont see any terrorism in china, do you mr liberal?

nor do you see human rights or really any freedom at all....right mr "i love tyranical dictatorships" communist?

Originally posted by PVS
nor do you see human rights or really any freedom at all....right mr "i love tyranical dictatorships" communist?

I love being safe mr "lets wait until a million more people are killed in a terrorist act, and then maybe start using more aggressive force when interrogating terrorists" liberal

i have a better idea. why dont all you paranoid "please control every aspect of our lives and torture/imprison/kill us if you find us suspicious" freaks all just...oh i know...kill yourselves and end your constant mental anguish. then the terrorists become ineffectual, and so really its a win win

I would rather have some freedoms taken away (omg they are gonna tap my phone..WHAT EVER WILL I DO!) and still be alive, but I guess thats just me and you would die becuase your phone might be tapped.

Originally posted by KidRock
I would rather have some freedoms taken away (omg they are gonna tap my phone..WHAT EVER WILL I DO!) and still be alive, but I guess thats just me and you would die becuase your phone might be tapped.

no, id rather die than become stupid to the point of lying consciously distorting a topic in order to win (changing the topic from torture/imprisonment/kangaroo courts to phone tapping), for self gratification and to praise a dictator-in-training whom i secretly want to pound my ass raw.

Originally posted by KidRock
I would rather have some freedoms taken away (omg they are gonna tap my phone..WHAT EVER WILL I DO!) and still be alive, but I guess thats just me and you would die becuase your phone might be tapped.


The only freedoms you have to worry about right now is if you get grounded.

Losing small freedoms today opens the door for more tomorrow.

slippery slope fallacy?

Originally posted by Soleran

Losing small freedoms today opens the door for more tomorrow.

Well it wouldnt really matter cause if the liberals had it their way we would all be dead tommorow due to terrorism.

Originally posted by docb77
slippery slope fallacy?

slippery slope is not automatically a fallacy.
the illogical use of it with false connections is.
please, dont quote fallacies when you dont understand them
nor refer to them properly. example:

Originally posted by KidRock
Well it wouldnt really matter cause if the liberals had it their way we would all be dead tommorow due to terrorism.

see, that is the logical fallacy known as "dipshit"

Originally posted by PVS



see, that is the logical fallacy known as "dipshit"

Try staying on topic in at least one of your posts instead of making a 10 year old insult, thanks old man.

Originally posted by docb77

Definitions of torture

When we do it - Sleep deprivation, mild hypothermia

When they do it - beatings, kanings, fire ants, near drownings, witnessing companions executions.

Yeah, those are totally the same. Oh way worst than that ::insert puking smilie here::

And yesl I agree with the moral Standards. Bush made millions at a republican event earlier. Pretty suprised with that and how.

Originally posted by PVS
i have a better idea. why dont all you paranoid "please control every aspect of our lives and torture/imprison/kill us if you find us suspicious" freaks all just...oh i know...kill yourselves and end your constant mental anguish. then the terrorists become ineffectual, and so really its a win win Originally posted by PVS
no, id rather die than become stupid to the point of lying consciously distorting a topic in order to win (changing the topic from torture/imprisonment/kangaroo courts to phone tapping), for self gratification and to praise a dictator-in-training whom i secretly want to pound my ass raw.


Cranky much?


I guess I would be too if my own political party leaders came to an agreement with the president I hated, and decided that they didn't mind him giving our boys a little wiggle room.

Sucks when YOUR heroes don't follow your rhetoric, eh?


Coincedentaly, most high profile dems thought Saddam had WMD:
John Kerry, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Howard Dean, Kennedy, Nancy Palosi and more all agreed and believed that Sadam was a threat and voted for the war.

Bill Clinton even said 3 months in that we did the right thing.

Now that it isn't going so well its: "G.W. is a fool, this was wrong."


I cry BULLSHIT!

Push push in the george bush

Lyrics in Michigan.......not flattering........kinda sexual.........sorry.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Push push in the george bush

Lyrics in Michigan.......not flattering........kinda sexual.........sorry.

Well, G.W. has been likened to a butt-plug, so it fits (no pun intended).

Originally posted by debbiejo
Push push in the george bush

Lyrics in Michigan.......not flattering........kinda sexual.........sorry.

And shit, don't forget shit.

Originally posted by Robtard
Well, G.W. has been likened to a butt-plug, so it fits (no pun intended).

Damn, why are the best puns always not intended...you people suck so much.

Originally posted by PVS
slippery slope is not automatically a fallacy.
the illogical use of it with false connections is.
please, dont quote fallacies when you dont understand them
nor refer to them properly. example:

Not automatically, but I don't see how "losing small freedoms now can lead to losing greater freedoms later". False connection. It's like saying, "lowering the speed limit to 55 now will lead to lowering it to 25 later"

I remember the logical fallacy thread quite well thank you.

Originally posted by PVS
see, that is the logical fallacy known as "dipshit"

I believe it's more commonly called "leaping to conclusions". It may be valid, but the reader has no idea how the proponent of the argument got from A (if liberals had their way) to B (we'd all be dead from terrorism).

Could be true, just no evidence presented to back it up.

Originally posted by docb77
Not automatically, but I don't see how "losing small freedoms now can lead to losing greater freedoms later". False connection. It's like saying, "lowering the speed limit to 55 now will lead to lowering it to 25 later"

I remember the logical fallacy thread quite well thank you.

oh fine, now you forced me on a tangent.
how can you compare both patterns of logic? authorities would have nothing to gain by lowering the speed limit to 25, in fact it would lead to a disaster. not to jump on your analogy, but the point im making is that nobody in power would have anything to gain by creating that scenario, and they could only lose in terms of popularity and probably revenue from people avoiding those roads...well many possibilities.

HOWEVER when they raise it to 55 people complain that its a slippery slope and that people wont be happy and will just want to go faster, and that raising the limit is just encouragement. sure enough, they were right. now some roads in jersey were bumped up to 65 and people cried slippery slope, and they were correct. proof is driving down the parkway in the left lane at 80 miles and hour with a line of assholes behind you tailgating you because they want to go 95. they have something to gain, so they look the gifthorse in the mouth.

the point of this tangent, to shed some use, is that slippery slope applies when there is something to gain by those who demand it. torture is a quick and easy way to extract information, as unreliable as that information is (especially when if you or i were tortured for long enough, we would confess to being terrorists and give out random false information to make it believable....just to make the pain stop.) those in power have even more to gain by increasing the sadism of that torture and there really is no limit. thats the whole point.

slippery slope is entirely valid.

Originally posted by KidRock
We should line em up like they do in china and shoot all the terrorists in the head. You dont see any terrorism in china, do you mr liberal?

I thought you conservative types hated communism and everything to do with it.

I also thought the lot of you were hypocrites, so it fits, actually.

Originally posted by grey fox
Nah , because then they'll be bleed out to quickly , you need to get THROUGH the bone (which is a *****)
A skilled crucifier puts the nails through the wrists in such a way that it doesn't pierce the major veins but completely destroys the nerves (not resulting in a lack of sensation but a continuous, painful sensation).

Originally posted by Robtard
What am I deliberately lying about?

Abu Ghraib prison right? Yes it was wrong and the people responsible are being dealt with.

'The people responsible are being dealt with'? Really? Last time I checked, George and Donald were still in office. They are the ones who are ultimately responsible due to the culture of torture that they practice and preach. As demonstrated by this latest congressional approval of using torture.

Originally posted by FeceMan
A skilled crucifier puts the nails through the wrists in such a way that it doesn't pierce the major veins but completely destroys the nerves (not resulting in a lack of sensation but a continuous, painful sensation).

its being debated now whether nails were put through the hands after all. something about the feet support adding leverage and putting most of the weight on the feet and back. forgot where i read/saw this.

but perhaps that would make a nice topic for another thread

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
'The people responsible are being dealt with'? Really? Last time I checked, George and Donald were still in office. They are the ones who are ultimately responsible due to the culture of torture that they practice and preach. As demonstrated by this latest congressional approval of using torture.

*covers ears*

LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
'The people responsible are being dealt with'? Really? Last time I checked, George and Donald were still in office. They are the ones who are ultimately responsible due to the culture of torture that they practice and preach. As demonstrated by this latest congressional approval of using torture.

"culture of torture that they practice and preach" Which wackjob extremist liberal website did you glean that jewel off of?

Originally posted by KidRock
I love being safe mr "lets wait until a million more people are killed in a terrorist act, and then maybe start using more aggressive force when interrogating terrorists" liberal


is that like saying Saddam has weapons of mass destruction? Or should we pretend he shipped them off to his ememies in Iran before we just abandon the notion that he had them at all?

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
is that like saying Saddam has weapons of mass destruction? Or should we pretend he shipped them off to his ememies in Iran before we just abandon the notion that he had them at all?

oh good, this is the part where kidrock brings up the depleted canisters from 20+ years ago, supplied by reagan and rumsfeld and at this point useless. "DER WE FOUND DA WEAPONS!!!". then everyone explains why he's factually wrong and he ignores it to bring it up again in another thread, and life goes on.

Originally posted by PVS
oh good, this is the part where kidrock brings up the depleted canisters from 20+ years ago, supplied by reagan and rumsfeld and at this point useless. "DER WE FOUND DA WEAPONS!!!". then everyone explains why he's factually wrong and he ignores it to bring it up again in another thread, and life goes on.

It would be if he would ever admit that the cardboard cut out of jesus dressed like reagan wasn't neck deep in the shit storm that is the modern middle east. actually, if he would admit that he doesn't know shit about the reagan administration, other than his funeral.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
http://www.ondmis.dk/billeder/forumpics/homocommunist.jpg

For all in this thread who seem to have a problem with being tough to those who have no problem beheading people on T.V. and showing us the footage to watch them scream as their throats are sliced.....



Stand aside whilst the men do what needs to be done, ya pussies. You're a ****ing idiot.

I think at this point, we need to do what the serbs did and form an OTPOR movement in America. We get so many people riled up that several million people go on a general strike and glut Washington DC so bad that Bush steps down like Milosevic.

Originally posted by Robtard
"culture of torture that they practice and preach" Which wackjob extremist liberal website did you glean that jewel off of?

All my own. Glad you liked it.

Ur sayin' that U Americans are LESS bad than terrorists.
BUT now ur army and Fbi and shit are allowed to do the same things as the terrorists,prior to this event they could legally only do what they did.

Now they can do whatever the **** they want. And they will.

Define 'TORTURE' Define 'TERROR SUSPECT'

This law gives the power to the army or whatever to arrest anyone they ****ing want, torture anyone they want, put them in a 'prison' for the rest of their life without a trial. there doesn't even have to be any proof, as they could say there is proof but it's all classified so we can't give u the proof.


I AM DISGUSTED!

Originally posted by Lumanix
You're a ****ing idiot.

And you're 16.

Shutup.

I have a baby sister older than you, kid.

When you can vote, and take into serious consideration the impact of radical religious murderers who have publicly stated that they want to destroy any American that won't convert to Islam (and seemed to have proved their dedication to the "destroy" part thus far)......

then you can spout your opinion that you got from John Stewart and Gideon Yago like it means something.

Maybe Comedy Central and MTV have convinced you that cutting the head off of a young American with a serrated saw blade deserves the same old treatment and tactics, but there are others in the country, in your city and state, hell in this very thread, who see it a little different.


They call us....


adults.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
And you're 16.

Shutup.

I have a baby sister older than you, kid.

When you can vote, and take into serious consideration the impact of radical religious murderers who have publicly stated that they want to destroy any American that won't convert to Islam (and seemed to have proved their dedication to the "destroy" part thus far)......

then you can spout your opinion that you got from John Stewart and Gideon Yago like it means something.

Maybe Comedy Central and MTV have convinced you that cutting the head off of a young American with a serrated saw blade deserves the same old treatment and tactics, but there are others in the country, in your city and state, hell in this very thread, who see it a little different.


They call us....


adults.


thats a whole lot of typing for absolutely nothing said besides "LOLZ JOO NOT OLD" and your typical mindless strawman bashing. what motivates you to devote so much time to making a public ass out of yourself? just curious

I am motivated primarily by three things:

1.) Misguided liberals like you, who would put other country's feelings over our own security, who think terrorists deserve fair treatment, and pretend that this problem will somehow go away on its own.

2.) Media influenced young folks like Lumanix, who believe the Dixie Chicks and Eminem when they tell them their own government is evil, but can't see the very real threats we are up against, even when they strike and kill us on our homeland.

3.) Most importantly, my personal convictions and religious beliefs. When I think of both of my grandfathers, who served in WWII, and then I see the god-less, secular, anti-anything with moral values culture that we live in that would rather defend a right to porn, gay marriage, and the killing of babies, than the defending of our people and the country that we live in......


I guess that's why I devote so much of time to making "an ass out of myself".

Cuz I'm way off base here.....

that help?

Originally posted by sithsaber408
I am motivated primarily by three things:

1.) Misguided liberals like you, who would put other country's feelings over our own security, who think terrorists deserve fair treatment, and pretend that this problem will somehow go away on its own.

2.) Media influenced young folks like Lumanix, who believe the Dixie Chicks and Eminem when they tell them their own government is evil, but can't see the very real threats we are up against, even when they strike and kill us on our homeland.

3.) Most importantly, my personal convictions and religious beliefs. When I think of both of my grandfathers, who served in WWII, and then I see the god-less, secular, anti-anything with moral values culture that we live in that would rather defend a right to porn, gay marriage, and the killing of babies, than the defending of our people and the country that we live in......


I guess that's why I devote so much of time to making "an ass out of myself".

Cuz I'm way off base here.....

that help?

Even though that sounded just a bit self righteous for my taste, you make several good points.

Originally posted by Robtard
Even though that sounded just a bit self righteous for my taste, you make several good points.

It was, but thanks.

Me and PVS have that sort of a debating nature.

He calls me a blithering idiot, and I take the moral high ground.

its all straw man. thats EVERYTHING in his posts

you're being deliberately bias in ignoring that. i see that alot on the left as well, yet i certainly dont cheer them on.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
I am motivated primarily by three things:

1.) Misguided liberals like you, who would put other country's feelings over our own security, who think terrorists deserve fair treatment, and pretend that this problem will somehow go away on its own.

2.) Media influenced young folks like Lumanix, who believe the Dixie Chicks and Eminem when they tell them their own government is evil, but can't see the very real threats we are up against, even when they strike and kill us on our homeland.

3.) Most importantly, my personal convictions and religious beliefs. When I think of both of my grandfathers, who served in WWII, and then I see the god-less, secular, anti-anything with moral values culture that we live in that would rather defend a right to porn, gay marriage, and the killing of babies, than the defending of our people and the country that we live in......


I guess that's why I devote so much of time to making "an ass out of myself".

Cuz I'm way off base here.....

that help?

1. And who says they are all terrorists? Doesn't your own constitution say that people are innocent until proven guilty, or at least your laws do.

If you break the law to defend your country are you really worthy of it? Isn't this destroying everytihng the US is supposed to stand for? Freedom and equality? Throwing innocent people in jail and lowering yourself to their level might get you safety but it won't give you a country worth living in.

2. On your homeland? Like you did against theirs? What makes you better then them in this case? Iraq has felt far more pain by the US then the US from the Iraqi's. Does that justify their actions when they kill American soldiers there? And civilians from western country's or lock them up and torture them? If not then what gives you the right to do so?

3. Yes because i'm sure your grandfather fought in a war so his country could oppress people and make the world far less safe then it has been in a long time? Did he fight for that? And those rights you talk about they are the very essence of a country, their ability to make their own people feel happy and contempt is what a government should be measured by. Not their ability to attack other country's piss of the world and break every international law ever created...

Originally posted by sithsaber408
1.) Misguided liberals like you, who would put other country's feelings over our own security

Despite being a Democrat myself, I see of flaws of the members of my party, like the one you mentioned above.

You can't worry about frivolous shit that can undermine/compromise your safety.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
3.) Most importantly, my personal convictions and religious beliefs. When I think of both of my grandfathers, who served in WWII, and then I see the god-less, secular, anti-anything with moral values culture that we live in that would rather defend a right to porn, gay marriage, and the killing of babies, than the defending of our people and the country that we live in......

Likewise; my paternal grandfather was a Marine in the South Pacific and my maternal grandfather was a tank-mechanic in Europe. I also wonder if they're rolling over in their graves at some of the things that exist in today's society.

Originally posted by PVS
its all straw man. thats EVERYTHING in his posts

you're being deliberately bias in ignoring that. i see that alot on the left as well, yet i certainly dont cheer them on.

Enough with this "straw man" crap.

I don't have any need to simplify and defeat your arguments, or misrepresent them, since they are all defeatist, secularist, liberal nonsense.


Quite simply, you believe that there should be no change in interrogation procedures to terror suspects, that they should be treated as any other criminal suspect in our justice system.

You believe such measures are unnecessary, and even if they produce good intel. that leads to the prevention of murder, that we have lowered ourselves to the terrorists level by being brutal with them, if necessary.

That's a fair position, I just don't agree with it.

I think that because of the heinous nature of their crimes, and because the plots are on our citizens, as a mass group, against our entire nation really, that it warrants a different response than a personal attack (or planned attack ) between two individuals. (or groups of individuals)

The methods of interrogation, capture, imprisonment, and execution that they demonstrate are far worse than any proposed changes that will come about with the passing of this measure.


Even if we beat the shit out of them, we aren't cutting their heads off with a serrated saw blade, slowly enough to hear them scream in agony before their vocal cords are sliced, and then videotaping and broadcasting it so that their family and the whole f*cking world can see that they don't give a f*ck about human life.


I would say that congress agrees with my point of view on the subject, since they have passed this measure.


Deal with it, and have a nice day.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Despite being a Democrat myself, I see of flaws of the members of my party, like the one you mentioned above.

You can't worry about frivolous shit that can undermine/compromise your safety.



Likewise; my paternal grandfather was a Marine in the South Pacific and my maternal grandfather was a tank-mechanic in Europe. I also wonder if they're rolling over in their graves at some of the things that exist in today's society.

Orale guey, mota!


I've always respected your input, not just because of having a similar upbringing (though that's certainly part of it) but because you look at all issues with a common-sense approach, and call the bullshitters out for their bull shit.


I've said in other threads that Bush has made plenty of mistakes, and I blame him just as much (if not more) and his administration for not preventing 9/11, and for any screw-ups that they have made since.

I still believe that they have the right mind-set when it comes to Islamic radical terrorists, though.



As for our grandfather's, I can only hope that me and my kids can make a positive change to honor their sacrifices and their service.

You may indeed be right about them rolling their graves.


Orale pues, mi compa!

Congress Makes Bush God.

lollerskatesroflcopterwtfbbqpwnageorlyyarlypedobea
r

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Enough with this "straw man" crap.


yes, thats what im trying to get in to that impenetrable skull of yours but you just dont get it. you're entire argument is against a self destructive bumbling caricature which you created, and thus you look like an ass. at this point you may as well create a sock account ala whob, because i cant see you as being any better. there is no point in debating with you as you dont even have the common respect to hear the point of view of your opponent. that makes you a useless parrot, squawking the same nonsense over and over, which amounts to nothing more than baseless accusations. you are a fool and a waste of energy to converse with. that is why you fail

Originally posted by FeceMan
lollerskatesroflcopterwtfbbqpwnageorlyyarlypedobea
r

oneoneeleventyone

PEDOBEAR

you already mentioned pedobear. he's busy at the pictures thread

Anyone reminded of Episode III?

OK, brief reminder

Palpatine - caused the war

Bush - didn't start it, want's to finish it

Palpatine - evil

Bush - not evil

Palpatine - Wanted to destroy the republic

Bush - Want's to protect the republic


NO, there are no similarities between bush and epIII palpy.

-edit-

as a side note, I don't remember reading anything in the articles or bill about "unconditional power" or "making Bush god". In fact the Bill lists things that are prohibited no matter what Bush wants. The bill only leaves enough room to do what needs to be done, ie. interrogate the bastards that are captured on the field.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
defeatist, secularist, liberal

are you actually closed-minded enough to think that all three of those things go hand-in-hand?

First of all, PVS is right in accusing you of using strawman tactics, because you are. You assume that because your solution isn't blindly agreed upon by everyone that their ultimate goals are not the same as you'd like to acheive. Because you accuse them of saying they support the terrorists, does that make it true? That goal is the safty of every US citizen.

Second, you'd like to condemn everyone who doesn't think the way you do. That's just petty and child-like. So Achmed doesn't think baby jesus is the savior of all man-kind? How insecure of you to condemn him for thinking so. As I have always said, "you people" need to grow up and stop taking your tempertantrums to the voting booth and world scene with you, your religious beliefs have no place in politics. Stop acting like babies just because someone doesn't think the same way you do. Remember, this is our world too, whether you like it or not. And I'm not saying the muslim fanatics don't. But I'm saying you do it too and that makes you no better than them in the long run. Prefacing every statement you make with "Well, I'm a christian." is no better than saying the same but replacing "christian" with "muslim". You're all ****ing nuts, you're all ****ing brainwashed and you're all fanatical. Thankfully, the difference is that in this country you aren't flying planes into buildings. But you would be if there weren't people who disagreed with you. And that's what makes the US "right". It isn't Jesus v. Mohammad. It's right v. wrong. and every time you take the name of Jesus in an argument to illustrate how right you are, you are only illustrating how wrong you are. I don't condemn you for believeing in your religion, I condemn you for thinking that makes you right.

Speaking to people like you, we aren't the ones who send our children to camps where they have to pray to cardboard cut-outs of George W Bush. It's ****ing pathetic. If you want to believe in an organized religion that's no different from any religion founded by the ancient Egyptians or Greeks, go ahead. But keep you god off my dick! And I'll keep my dick off your god.

Originally posted by docb77
OK, brief reminder

Palpatine - caused the war

Bush - didn't start it, want's to finish it

Palpatine - evil

Bush - not evil

Palpatine - Wanted to destroy the republic

Bush - Want's to protect the republic


NO, there are no similarities between bush and epIII palpy.

-edit-

as a side note, I don't remember reading anything in the articles or bill about "unconditional power" or "making Bush god". In fact the Bill lists things that are prohibited no matter what Bush wants. The bill only leaves enough room to do what needs to be done, ie. interrogate the bastards that are captured on the field.
Actually, I'm pretty sure the comparison relates to the fact that everyone THOUGHT Palpatine didn't start the war, that he wasn't evil, and that he just wanted to protect the republic when in actuality he didn't. Which is the same thing they're saying about Bush.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
And you're 16.

Shutup.

I have a baby sister older than you, kid.

When you can vote, and take into serious consideration the impact of radical religious murderers who have publicly stated that they want to destroy any American that won't convert to Islam (and seemed to have proved their dedication to the "destroy" part thus far)......

then you can spout your opinion that you got from John Stewart and Gideon Yago like it means something.

Maybe Comedy Central and MTV have convinced you that cutting the head off of a young American with a serrated saw blade deserves the same old treatment and tactics, but there are others in the country, in your city and state, hell in this very thread, who see it a little different.


They call us....


adults. 1. He's right.
2. Him being 16 only has bearing if the topic is something akin to "How to be an old pretentious bible-thumping *******."Originally posted by sithsaber408
I am motivated primarily by three things:

1.) Misguided liberals like you, who would put other country's feelings over our own security, who think terrorists deserve fair treatment, and pretend that this problem will somehow go away on its own.

2.) Media influenced young folks like Lumanix, who believe the Dixie Chicks and Eminem when they tell them their own government is evil, but can't see the very real threats we are up against, even when they strike and kill us on our homeland.

3.) Most importantly, my personal convictions and religious beliefs. When I think of both of my grandfathers, who served in WWII, and then I see the god-less, secular, anti-anything with moral values culture that we live in that would rather defend a right to porn, gay marriage, and the killing of babies, than the defending of our people and the country that we live in......


I guess that's why I devote so much of time to making "an ass out of myself".

Cuz I'm way off base here.....

that help? Your assumption that either everyone on the boards is American or presumption that only Americans can have views on globally relevant politics only serves to prove your status as a sanctimonious git.

Originally posted by Kinneary
Actually, I'm pretty sure the comparison relates to the fact that everyone THOUGHT Palpatine didn't start the war, that he wasn't evil, and that he just wanted to protect the republic when in actuality he didn't. Which is the same thing they're saying about Bush.

It's still quite a stretch. If Bush starts campaigning for a 3rd term I'll start worrying, until then... no