Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Lucifer
Michael
Spectre (Full powered)




vs

Thanos HTOU
Warlock with the IG
The LT

the DC team should win handily having Michael, Lucifer, and Spectre but then all of the on pannel feats crap comes up. So once again im giving it an even split 5/10

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Lucifer
Michael
Spectre (Full powered)
Mr. Mxy ( World's Funnest)
Kismet



vs

Thanos HTOU
Warlock with the IG
The LT
Beyonder (Secret Wars 1 and 2)
Phoenix of the white crown Maximum number of contenders
Let's keep it maximum 3 versus 3, with the exception of teams. More than 2 characters in a match is hard to discuss, threads like that often dissappear in 2 days, imagine 8 or 10 characters involved...

(Now, in some cases, an exception or two might be made with some theads. It's usually a judgement call on the moderator's part. But, of course, if a thread has like 25+ characters, it WILL be closed. NO exceptions)

Originally posted by galan7777777
the DC team should win handily having Michael, Lucifer, and Spectre (among others), but then all of the on pannel feats crap comes up. So once again im giving it an even split 5/10

Why not just say what you feel. it won't hurt.

i see you changed some stuff around, well Spectre at FP=ALL the Wrath of God, and as long as Michael is favored by God, and Lucifer is in his unweakened state the DC team wins handily... Remember we are talking about beings that are stated as the top 3 most powerful beings in the DCU existance

Originally posted by galan7777777
i see you changed some stuff around, well Spectre at FP=ALL the Wrath of God, and as long as Michael is favored by God, and Lucifer is in his unweakened state the DC team wins handily... Remember we are talking about beings that are stated as the top 3 most powerful beings in the DCU existance

I had to change it so as not to mess up the forum rules.

gotcha

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Lucifer
Michael
Spectre (Full powered)




vs

Thanos HTOU
Warlock with the IG
The LT

Lucifer and Micheal have done nothing to prove themselves to be able to defeat the Living Tribunal, even together....

Lucifer's greatest feat was creating a Universe, which Living Tribunal can do with ease....Lucifer took time and energy to commit to that project, while LT has created and erased realities on panel with ease.

Warlock with IG may find a large challenge with Lucifer and Micheal together....however, IG gives you power over more than one universe, and it is unclear whether the amount of universes you overcome are truly infinite, or limitted...well, they are called the Infinity Gems, so ill assume infinite.

Spectre's greatest feat was connecting with every sentient being in DC's multiverse...nice, but nothing that LT or Thanos with HOTU can't do....

Thanos with HOTU alone can destroy Mike, Lucifer, and Spectre....

Marvel wins....like they always fkn do

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Lucifer and Micheal have done nothing to prove themselves to be able to defeat the Living Tribunal, even together.... and what has LT done that would indicate he could defeat the Brothers? (see what i just did there?)

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Lucifer's greatest feat was creating a Universe, which Living Tribunal can do with ease....Lucifer took time and energy to commit to that project, while LT has created and erased realities on panel with ease. time and energy? if you read the lucifer series you would see that it took little to no effort for Lucifer to make a universe

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Warlock with IG may find a large challenge with Lucifer and Micheal together....however, IG gives you power over more than one universe, and it is unclear whether the amount of universes you overcome are truly infinite, or limitted...well, they are called the Infinity Gems, so ill assume infinite. again you think that just because Lucifer only made a single universe, that thats all he could have made, when in truth a single universe was all he wanted

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Spectre's greatest feat was connecting with every sentient being in DC's multiverse...nice, but nothing that LT or Thanos with HOTU can't do....they probably can, but how does that equate to them beating the FULL wrath of god?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Thanos with HOTU alone can destroy Mike, Lucifer, and Spectre....

Marvel wins....like they always fkn do and how would Thanos beat them? He would be fighting 3 beings that are all heavily favored by God himself, death has no hold on them........ they exist outside of existance

im not trying to argue, i just want you to understand that Marvel wouldnt win as easily as u think

Originally posted by galan7777777
and what has LT done that would indicate he could defeat the Brothers?



Erase and create realities, trap Beyonder in a single universe, turn Silver Surfer into a universe, nullify the powers of the IG
(the IG happens to be multiversal in power), the only thing that was above him was HOTU and TOAA...


Originally posted by galan7777777
time and energy? if you read the lucifer series you would see that it took little to no effort for Lucifer to make a universe

Yes..it took him time to create the stars and the cosmos...he spent energy on the project....

Just because he wasn't exhausted, does not mean it took him no effort...

LT can manifest realities instantly, and erase them just as fast....Lucifer has to gather enough energy for both...

Originally posted by galan7777777
again you think that just because Lucifer only made a single universe, that thats all he could have made, when in truth a single universe was all he wanted

Can you prove he can create a multiverse? Because he has never done so, and i dont remember him claiming that power...


Originally posted by galan7777777
they probably can, but how does that equate to them beating the FULL wrath of god?

Thanos with HOTU is equal to TOAA, Marvel's "God"

DC and Vertigo's God is limitted and flawed. The last issue of Lucifer, Yahweh himself admitted he was shaped by external forces...he is imperfect, and not complete in himself.

The Presence' counterpart is the GEB, which automatically makes it a force of flaws...

Originally posted by galan7777777
and how would Thanos beat them? He would be fighting 3 beings that are all heavily favored by God himself, death has no hold on them........ they exist outside of existance

So what...Death has no hold on Thanos either....nor on Adam Warlock...what's your point ?

Thanos with HOTU can MAKE them subject to nullification...Thanos with HOTU did more than Lucifer or Micheal did in thier entire series.

They do not exist outide of existance, although they can....matters not. REality Gem can take care of that (class reality gem, not current) and so can HOTU

And to make something clear...they do not live outside of "existance" per say...they can step outside CREATION and survive in the NULL VOID...so can LT, Thanos with HOTU, Adam Warlock with IG, and so many other characters, its not even funny..

Heck, fkn Animora from Crossgen Comics survived 500 years of imprisonment in a null void....it doesn't impress me that Lucifer and Micheal can do the same.

Originally posted by galan7777777
im not trying to argue, i just want you to understand that Marvel wouldnt win as easily as u think


I do understand that thier defeat will not be easy....Lucifer is highly manipulative....his words may sway Thanos or Adam Warlock, but will have NO EFFECT on LT, since LT only obeys TOAA....

And give me a break about Micheal's power....he couldnt even defeat those IDIOT Titans who attacked the Silver City

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Erase and create realities, trap Beyonder in a single universe, turn Silver Surfer into a universe, nullify the powers of the IG
(the IG happens to be multiversal in power when did LT ever trap pre-ret beyonder in a universe?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
the only thing that was above him was HOTU and TOAA... and what do u think is above the DC team?



Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Yes..it took him time to create the stars and the cosmos...he spent energy on the project.... the only reason it took him any time is because he was recreating the cosmos in the exact way God did (hence the whole 7 days thing)

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Just because he wasn't exhausted, does not mean it took him no effort... and how do we know that it took "no" effort for LT to turn surfer into a universe?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
LT can manifest realities instantly, and erase them just as fast....Lucifer has to gather enough energy for both... what? in book 6 i seem to remember lucifer erasing a reality, and then reshaping it how he saw fit with little effort



Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Can you prove he can create a multiverse? Because he has never done so, and i dont remember him claiming that power... can you prove that he couldnt have made a multiverse if he wanted to? the most impressive feat the LT has done was negate the IG and turn SS into a universe



Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Thanos with HOTU is equal to TOAA, Marvel's "God" mabye equal in power, but nowhere near TOAA's omniscents.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
DC and Vertigo's God is limitted and flawed. The last issue of Lucifer, Yahweh himself admitted he was shaped by external forces...he is imperfect, and not complete in himself. shaped by outside forces could be refering to the writers who drew him..... that statment is hardly enough to call God imperfect

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
The Presence' counterpart is the GEB, which automatically makes it a force of flaws... How so? its a universal balance GEB and God are the same (just on the opposite side of the coin) much like lucifer/michael



Originally posted by Lord Urizen
So what...Death has no hold on Thanos either....nor on Adam Warlock...what's your point ? point is that Thanos even with THOTU cant destroy something that cannot be killed

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Thanos with HOTU can MAKE them subject to nullification...Thanos with HOTU did more than Lucifer or Micheal did in thier entire series. again tell me how him doing more equates to a win

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
They do not exist outide of existance, although they can....matters not. REality Gem can take care of that (class reality gem, not current) and so can HOTU are you attempting to say that lucifer/michael dont exist outside of existance?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
And to make something clear...they do not live outside of "existance" per say...they can step outside CREATION and survive in the NULL VOID...so can LT, Thanos with HOTU, Adam Warlock with IG, and so many other characters, its not even funny.. nope, they exist outside of creation, but they can choose to step into reality if they choose to

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Heck, fkn Animora from Crossgen Comics survived 500 years of imprisonment in a null void....it doesn't impress me that Lucifer and Micheal can do the same. 500 years, lucifer is 10billion yrs old




Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I do understand that thier defeat will not be easy....Lucifer is highly manipulative....his words may sway Thanos or Adam Warlock, but will have NO EFFECT on LT, since LT only obeys TOAA.... right, lucifer can manipulate all of em except LT

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
And give me a break about Micheal's power....he couldnt even defeat those IDIOT Titans who attacked the Silver City at this point in the story michael was no longer in gods graces, because at this time god was absent

Originally posted by galan7777777
when did LT ever trap pre-ret beyonder in a universe?

and what do u think is above the DC team?



the only reason it took him any time is because he was recreating the cosmos in the exact way God did (hence the whole 7 days thing)

and how do we know that it took "no" effort for LT to turn surfer into a universe?

what? in book 6 i seem to remember lucifer erasing a reality, and then reshaping it how he saw fit with little effort



can you prove that he couldnt have made a multiverse if he wanted to? the most impressive feat the LT has done was negate the IG and turn SS into a universe



mabye equal in power, but nowhere near TOAA's omniscents.

shaped by outside forces could be refering to the writers who drew him..... that statment is hardly enough to call God imperfect

How so? its a universal balance GEB and God are the same (just on the opposite side of the coin) much like lucifer/michael



point is that Thanos even with THOTU cant destroy something that cannot be killed

again tell me how him doing more equates to a win

are you attempting to say that lucifer/michael dont exist outside of existance?

nope, they exist outside of creation, but they can choose to step into reality if they choose to

500 years, lucifer is 10billion yrs old




right, lucifer can manipulate all of em except LT

at this point in the story michael was no longer in gods graces, because at this time god was absent

Excellent retort.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Excellent retort.

Originally posted by galan7777777
when did LT ever trap pre-ret beyonder in a universe?


Not pre-retconned Beyonder.

The post ret-conned Beyonder was banished into a separate reality by the Living Tribunal in the Guardians of the Galaxy issues that included Korvac...

LT was tired of Beyonder manipulating universes to appease his boredom.


Originally posted by galan7777777
and what do u think is above the DC team?

Yahweh and Presence, although they have proven to be imperfect and flawed. I am not saying TOAA is any better, but so far TOAA has not been presented in a way that would prove him any inferior to Yahweh/Presence.


Originally posted by galan7777777
the only reason it took him any time is because he was recreating the cosmos in the exact way God did (hence the whole 7 days thing)

Nice Try, but there is no true explanation for it. It took him time, because he HAD to exist within the Universe itself to shape it. The Universe consists of Time and Space, which he had to become involved in.

The last thing he wants to do is copy God. How much about Lucifer do you actually know?

Besides, his universe was geocentric, since Earth was the only planet he personally addressed...

Originally posted by galan7777777
and how do we know that it took "no" effort for LT to turn surfer into a universe?


I never said it took no effort..i said he does it instantly. He has never needed to take that much time or drama to create or destroy a universe. He judges, and it happens.

Lucifer created his universe artistically and beautifully, but it took obvious time, effort, and thought.


Originally posted by galan7777777
what? in book 6 i seem to remember lucifer erasing a reality, and then reshaping it how he saw fit with little effort

He re-wrote the rules of reality, not erased it. If you have scans to back up this assertion, please use them.



Originally posted by galan7777777
can you prove that he couldnt have made a multiverse if he wanted to? the most impressive feat the LT has done was negate the IG and turn SS into a universe

There is no official clarification that Lucifer can or can't create a multiverse. But claiming that he CAN when he has never done so, nor claimed to do so, is a flawed and tired argument.

IG itself has negated the effect of the Ultamate Nullifier which was erasing realities left and right. IG was used to stop it. LT, however, can negate IG itself.

Therefore Living Tribunal's personal power is beyond a multiversal nature.

Living Tribunal also made a judgement which White Pheonix of the Crown HAD to follow....WPOTC re-created an erased universe.



Originally posted by galan7777777
mabye equal in power, but nowhere near TOAA's omniscents.

I am aware, but in terms of raw power, he was TOAA's equal. TOAA just happens to be much much much smarter, therefore Thanos or ANYONE with HOTU has no chance against TOAA.

Originally posted by galan7777777
shaped by outside forces could be refering to the writers who drew him..... that statment is hardly enough to call God imperfect


It's left up to interpretation, and your point holds no solid validity....it's a good point, but proves nothing. If Yahweh was perfect, he'd need not be shaped by anything, he'd already be complete in himself.

The simple fact that he is a comic book character, created by imperfect human writers, is enough to state his imperfection...i am saying this, since you seem to want to get literal.


Originally posted by galan7777777
How so? its a universal balance GEB and God are the same (just on the opposite side of the coin) much like lucifer/michael

The Great Evil Beast is evil....therefore flawed, and since it is the counterpart of the Presence, that makes the Presence flawed as well....

Unless you think something Evil can be perfect...


Originally posted by galan7777777
point is that Thanos even with THOTU cant destroy something that cannot be killed

Yes he can. He can make the reality such that Lucifer will be destroyed. Do you mean to tell me that Death is more powerful than HOTU ? I highly doubt it....

With HOTU power, or EVEN the IG, you can rewrite reality to your fashion, so that someone who is immortal becomes subject to death. It is not beyond the ability of someone with HOTU or even IG, so please....stop restating an argument that holds no validity.

Originally posted by galan7777777
again tell me how him doing more equates to a win


Does not equate to an automatic win...its evidense of the probability that Thanos with HOTU can do so much more than Lucifer or Michael can...

The Brothers did nothing that isn't any more impressive than the feats that Thanos has accomplished in his shorter life.


Originally posted by galan7777777
are you attempting to say that lucifer/michael dont exist outside of existance?


They can step outside creation into the null void, but still exist...therefore, they do not literally exist outide existance, they exist outside creation. Big Difference..

So what? Tons of characters can step outside creation and survive in a Void of infinite emptiness....it's been done before....

Originally posted by galan7777777
nope, they exist outside of creation, but they can choose to step into reality if they choose to

I know this...this is the point I was making earlier. What exactly are you trying to argue ? You seem to be agreeing with me.

Originally posted by galan7777777
500 years, lucifer is 10billion yrs old


Lucifer is not 10 Billion years old, he ruled Hell for 10 Billion Years...he is far older than that.

And what is your point ? Animora survived in a null void for 500 years....yet she isn't as powerful as Lucifer.

What point are you trying to make that Lucifer and Micheal can survive in a null void? Far less powerful characters have done the SAME THING...it's not that impressive.



Originally posted by galan7777777
right, lucifer can manipulate all of em except LT

I know. That is because LT is not a sentient being like Thanos or Adam Warlock....LT cannot be manipulated because he lacks the emotions and logic that is required for manipulation.

LT can and will only obey the TOAA, and nothing else. Lucifer will be wasting his time trying to manipulate LT.

Originally posted by galan7777777
at this point in the story michael was no longer in gods graces, because at this time god was absent

And your point is ?

jesus how many of these crappy threads can u make?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Yahweh and Presence, although they have proven to be imperfect and flawed. I am not saying TOAA is any better, but so far TOAA has not been presented in a way that would prove him any inferior to Yahweh/Presence Imperfect? how so? Just because they have opposites of each other? sorry that Imperfect thing is getting old




Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Nice Try, but there is no true explanation for it. It took him time, because he HAD to exist within the Universe itself to shape it. The Universe consists of Time and Space, which he had to become involved in. He shapped it becuase he wanted it to be just as perfect if not more so then God's why do you think he choose to create it in 7 days?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
The last thing he wants to do is copy God. not how god acts, but he wanted to make his creation just as great....Read some Lucifer comics

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
How much about Lucifer do you actually know? Far more then you obviously

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Besides, his universe was geocentric, since Earth was the only planet he personally addressed... What? there were numerous other planets mentioned throughout the series, in fact an epic battle with Lucifer took place on a completely different planet in book #4





Originally posted by Lord Urizen
He re-wrote the rules of reality, not erased it. If you have scans to back up this assertion, please use them. I dont needs scans my friend..... in book #6 Lucifer erases all of a certain reality and then reshapes it differently then before.... wether or not u believe this makes little difference to me



Originally posted by Lord Urizen
There is no official clarification that Lucifer can or can't create a multiverse. But claiming that he CAN when he has never done so, nor claimed to do so, is a flawed and tired argument. as is it to say that LT can create more then a universe


Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Therefore Living Tribunal's personal power is beyond a multiversal nature. and????? i never said Lucifer could or couldnt beat LT, its just not as easy as people make it sound


Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I am aware, but in terms of raw power, he was TOAA's equal. TOAA just happens to be much much much smarter, therefore Thanos or ANYONE with HOTU has no chance against TOAA. and how do we know THOTU was TOAA's equal? because thanos said he was that powerful? because remember that even if Thanos just had a fraction of infinity, he still had infinity, just to a lesser degree.




Originally posted by Lord Urizen
It's left up to interpretation, and your point holds no solid validity....it's a good point, but proves nothing. If Yahweh was perfect, he'd need not be shaped by anything, he'd already be complete in himself. and you "point" about God being imperfect holds no validity either, so we are even


Originally posted by Lord Urizen
The Great Evil Beast is evil....therefore flawed, and since it is the counterpart of the Presence, that makes the Presence flawed as well.... Yeah thats what you keep arguing, and it makes no sense

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Unless you think something Evil can be perfect... it depends how you define "perfect"




Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Yes he can. He can make the reality such that Lucifer will be destroyed. Do you mean to tell me that Death is more powerful than HOTU ? I highly doubt it.... i never said that, but thanos couldnt absorb death... why? because she exists outside of existance

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
With HOTU power, or EVEN the IG, you can rewrite reality to your fashion, so that someone who is immortal becomes subject to death. It is not beyond the ability of someone with HOTU or even IG, so please....stop restating an argument that holds no validity. so why didnt Thanos absorb death or warlock? ohhhh yeah because they were outside of existance


Originally posted by Lord Urizen
They can step outside creation into the null void, but still exist...therefore, they do not literally exist outide existance, they exist outside creation. Big Difference.. really? thats new..... are you making stuff up?


Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Lucifer is not 10 Billion years old, he ruled Hell for 10 Billion Years...he is far older than that.

And what is your point ? Animora survived in a null void for 500 years....yet she isn't as powerful as Lucifer. blah


Originally posted by Lord Urizen
And your point is ? i had to correct a previous statement you made, thats all

Thanos w/ Heart = TOAA = Presence = GEB >> Lucifer and the rest of the trash that can't compare to them.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Lucifer
Michael
Spectre (Full powered)




vs

Thanos HTOU
Warlock with the IG
The LT
It should be like:
Thanos w/ Heart vs GEB
Full power Spectre vs Living Tribunal
Warlock w/ IG vs Lucifer
Warlock w/ I-IG vs. Michael

Thats about a stalemate.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Thanos w/ Heart = TOAA = Presence = GEB >> Lucifer and the rest of the trash that can't compare to them. coming from someone who dosent read Lucifer its an idiotic comment to call them "trash"

Originally posted by galan7777777
coming from someone who dosent read Lucifer its an idiotic comment to call them "trash"
1. I read vertigo comics now. -- But, hey keep living in the past while the rest head for the future.

It's like saying: For Galactus, Spider-man is trash.
Or: For Living Tribunal the Eternity is trash.
ect.
The point was:
ou can line up a billion Lucifers, they still wont hurt the Beast.
So if Thanos equal's the beast. Well you get the pic.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
1. I read vertigo comics now. -- But, hey keep living in the past while the rest head for the future. So just because i still read Lucifer i dont have any other comics?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
It's like saying: For Galactus, Spider-man is trash.
Or: For Living Tribunal the Eternity is trash.
ect.
The point was:
ou can line up a billion Lucifers, they still wont hurt the Beast.
So if Thanos equal's the beast. Well you get the pic. Thats a very bold statment, but i dont feel like arguing it. We all have out own oppinions, and we have both stated ours

marvel imo

Not stating who will win just clearing something up.

It is true that Thanos w/THOTU couldnt kill warlock and death because they were outside time and space.
He could have easily killed them once he found/saw them though.

Marvel wins.

Thanos with THOTU beats everyone on the DC team. the other two are Non-Factors.

Originally posted by galan7777777
Imperfect? how so? Just because they have opposites of each other? sorry that Imperfect thing is getting old

Like you already said, perfection is subjective.

Regardless, you brought up the point that Yahweh was referring to the comic book writers who created him, hence making him automatically imperfect, and no a guarantee for victory.




Originally posted by galan7777777
He shapped it becuase he wanted it to be just as perfect if not more so then God's why do you think he choose to create it in 7 days?


So you assume that means he could create universes instantaneously?

Originally posted by galan7777777
not how god acts, but he wanted to make his creation just as great....Read some Lucifer comics

Oh I do my freind, I do

Originally posted by galan7777777
Far more then you obviously

You sure? Because you seem to either misintepret a lot of the actual events in Lucifer, or you're making things up...like most fanboys do.

Originally posted by galan7777777
What? there were numerous other planets mentioned throughout the series, in fact an epic battle with Lucifer took place on a completely different planet in book #4


That's not what I am talking about...

The Universe that Lucifer created is Geocentric, because the copy of Earth, or Eden to be more precise, was the only world he addressed....remember when he told the "new" Adam and Eve to obey no one ?

Earth was the only planet in that created universe that he commanded....he ignored all other worlds...




Originally posted by galan7777777
I dont needs scans my friend..... in book #6 Lucifer erases all of a certain reality and then reshapes it differently then before.... wether or not u believe this makes little difference to me


Makes no difference to me either, and it is not a matter of beleif. But you are claiming something he did, and you are not backing it up.

Book 6, what issue ? If you can provide a scan, you'd certainly beat me in this debate. Otherwise, your claims are just as good as my own....


Originally posted by galan7777777
as is it to say that LT can create more then a universe


Mr. Master has provided more than enough scans to show LT's capabilities. I thought you may have stumbled upon his debates with GalacticStorm...if you do not beleive me, then ask Mr. Master yourself.


Originally posted by galan7777777
and????? i never said Lucifer could or couldnt beat LT, its just not as easy as people make it sound

Never said it was easy either, but I am making a point as to why LT and Thanos with HOTU would win.


Originally posted by galan7777777
and how do we know THOTU was TOAA's equal? because thanos said he was that powerful? because remember that even if Thanos just had a fraction of infinity, he still had infinity, just to a lesser degree.


He is not TOAA's absolute equal, only in terms of raw power....and because TOAA was the only one who could beat him.




Originally posted by galan7777777
and you "point" about God being imperfect holds no validity either, so we are even


All it means is that Yahweh or Presence are not automatic vouchers for victory...you keep saying "God", "God this" "God that" as if he is truly God....it sickens me how so many DC fanboys pool in thier personal and religious bias into these arguments...

You guys get so easily offended when your precious God gets challenged...

Originally posted by galan7777777
Yeah thats what you keep arguing, and it makes no sense

What makes no sense ?

Originally posted by galan7777777
it depends how you define "perfect"

Yahweh/Presence are comic book characters, created by flawed human beings, therefore they are imperfect by default. There's no other way around it, so get over it.

I only bring this up, because you and so many other DC fanboys claim his perfection....




Originally posted by galan7777777
i never said that, but thanos couldnt absorb death... why? because she exists outside of existance

He absorbed all of creation, and neglected the void. She stepped outside of creation and into the void. If Thanos had addressed non-creation, he would have absorbed her as well.

Originally posted by galan7777777
so why didnt Thanos absorb death or warlock? ohhhh yeah because they were outside of existance


Read above post....

Originally posted by galan7777777
really? thats new..... are you making stuff up?


Did you read Lucifer issue # 75 buddy ?

Yahweh and Lucifer were standing outside "existance" actually, to be more correct, outside of creation and in the null void. At the end Lucifer flies away into the Void....

Existance simply means "creation" ....as it is self evident throughout the entire series, the null void is "non creation" , but not literal non existance....nothingness does exist.

All I am saying is that lesser characters can do the same exact thing...step outside creation and exist in a null void without being harmed....it does not impress me that Lucifer and Micheal have done it.

Originally posted by galan7777777
blah



Loss of words ? Or can you not counter that argument ?


Originally posted by galan7777777
i had to correct a previous statement you made, thats all

Which statement was that ?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Regardless, you brought up the point that Yahweh was referring to the comic book writers who created him, hence making him automatically imperfect, and no a guarantee for victory. when did i ever bring up yahweh would be guaranteed victory? Stop making things up...







Originally posted by Lord Urizen
So you assume that means he could create universes instantaneously?i never said that, but i did say Lucifer choose to created a universe in 7 days thats all



Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Oh I do my freind, I do it dosent show


Originally posted by Lord Urizen
You sure? Because you seem to either misintepret a lot of the actual events in Lucifer, or you're making things up...like most fanboys do. Fanboy? lol, dont get cocky and start throughing out slander just because someone is arguing with you my friend.



Originally posted by Lord Urizen
The Universe that Lucifer created is Geocentric, because the copy of Earth, or Eden to be more precise, was the only world he addressed....remember when he told the "new" Adam and Eve to obey no one ? really and you say I interpret alot from Lucifer to say that one world was the only one addressed in Lucifer is rediculous, and it shows me that you really havent read Lucifer as much as you claim

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Earth was the only planet in that created universe that he commanded....he ignored all other worlds... where did you read this?







Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Makes no difference to me either, and it is not a matter of beleif. But you are claiming something he did, and you are not backing it up.

Book 6, what issue ? If you can provide a scan, you'd certainly beat me in this debate. Otherwise, your claims are just as good as my own.... go out and get the book#6, and i will expect an apology





Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Mr. Master has provided more than enough scans to show LT's capabilities. I thought you may have stumbled upon his debates with GalacticStorm...if you do not beleive me, then ask Mr. Master yourself. i have seen the scans, and im not doubting LT's power at all, but can you show me anywhere in them where LT created more then a universe? I bet you cant....




Originally posted by Lord Urizen
All it means is that Yahweh or Presence are not automatic vouchers for victory...you keep saying "God", "God this" "God that" as if he is truly God....it sickens me how so many DC fanboys pool in thier personal and religious bias into these arguments... again, this "fanboy" slander just shows how immature you are just because someone is arguing with you....... and when did i bring my personal religion into this? stop twisting around what i have said. any comic character in all of comics is flawed, as they are ALL drawn by people. just calm down

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
You guys get so easily offended when your precious God gets challenged... again more slander from a very immature individual, whom obviously dosent have anything else to say other then name calling...... i have been respectful to you, and i deserve the same


Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Yahweh/Presence are comic book characters, created by flawed human beings, therefore they are imperfect by default. There's no other way around it, so get over it. i never said they werent created by people, and that they werent flawed by our standards.... but by comic book standards, they are perfect...... stop twisting my words

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I only bring this up, because you and so many other DC fanboys claim his perfection.... again another cocky, and immature remark, whats so hard about being respectful?






Originally posted by Lord Urizen
He absorbed all of creation, and neglected the void. She stepped outside of creation and into the void. If Thanos had addressed non-creation, he would have absorbed her as well. and you know this how? seems to me like your assuming this.


Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Existance simply means "creation" ....as it is self evident throughout the entire series, the null void is "non creation" , but not literal non existance....nothingness does exist. i agree, and this is why death has no hold on them..... correct?????

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
All I am saying is that lesser characters can do the same exact thing...step outside creation and exist in a null void without being harmed....it does not impress me that Lucifer and Micheal have done it. name 10 lesser characters in DC that have done this under their own power for an extended length of time



Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Which statement was that ? the one saying that michael couldnt beat the titans



Again Im not saying that 1 side has a dominate victory over the other, but i think beth sides have a good chance.... Marvel might take the victory, but not by an enormous margin

Wut up yall.

Nice debate.


A few points to clear.


Existing outside of Space & Time ("creation/existence" has been achieved by many, it is not a major feat.
(Warlock did it when he entered the Cosmic Vortex)



Oh, and the Living Tribunal's exact words were:

"CONNECTION to the INFINITE"
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9282/ltnk1.th.jpg

"Would you like a moment of GODHOOD"
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6844/lt2vi7.th.jpg


Now whether that means Universe - Multi-verse or the Omni-verse itself, we'll never know. After all, LT is the Judge of ALL the Multi-verses, simultaneously existing in ALL of them.

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2994/lt2cm.th.jpg


I'll tell you one thing though,

The Living Tribunal has used that term once before, "the INFINITE."

Do you know what he was referring to when he said that?

LT, Eternity, Lord Chaos & Master Order observe two specific creation of the Beyonders.
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/3528/shistoryie9.th.jpg

Living Tribunal calls the Beyonders, "the INFINITE"
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5996/shistory5wo5.th.jpg

"Minute bits of of their Energy" from the Beyonders, created Post-retcon Molecule Man & Post-retcon Beyonder.
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5854/shistory6nx7.th.jpg


Post-Retcon Molecule Man nearly destroyed the MULTI-VERSE in this same issue. (with a "Minute bit of their energy"

Kubik had to BEG him, not to erase Beyonder and destroy the Multi-verse

Originally posted by Mr Master
Wut up yall.

Nice debate.


A few points to clear.


Existing outside of Space & Time ("creation/existence" has been achieved by many, it is not a major feat.
(Warlock did it when he entered the Cosmic Vortex)



Oh, and the Living Tribunal's exact words were:

"CONNECTION to the INFINITE"
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9282/ltnk1.th.jpg

"Would you like a moment of GODHOOD"
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6844/lt2vi7.th.jpg


Now whether that means Universe - Multi-verse or the Omni-verse itself, we'll never know. After all, LT is the Judge of ALL Multi-verses.

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2994/lt2cm.th.jpg


I'll tell you one thing though,

The Living Tribunal has used that term once before, "the INFINITE."

Do you know what he was referring to when he said that?

LT, Eternity, Lord Chaos & Master Order observe two specific creation of the Beyonders.
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/3528/shistoryie9.th.jpg

Living Tribunal calls the Beyonders, "the INFINITE"
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5996/shistory5wo5.th.jpg

"Minute bits of of their Energy" from the Beyonders, created Post-retcon Molecule Man & Post-retcon Beyonder.
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5854/shistory6nx7.th.jpg


Post-Retcon Molecule Man nearly destroyed the MULTI-VERSE in this same issue.

Kubik had to BEG him, not to erase Beyonder and destroy the Multi-verse very nice mr. m!

Originally posted by Galan777
go out and get the book#6, and i will expect an apology


An apology? Is that how seriously you take this debate? Just calm down dude, as for your other comments, you are the one who needs to relax...

Why do you care how "respectful" someone online is being to you ? You don't know me, you probably never will, so why do you care?

I didn't mean to be disrespectful, I responding as I saw fit....all I said was you referred to Yahweh and Presence as "God"...i got the impression that you were replacing comic book characters with a deity you may happen to worship...

I only say that gets annoying because a LOT of DC fanboys do that...and it corrupts the debate very often. That's all.



Originally posted by Galan777
i have seen the scans, and im not doubting LT's power at all, but can you show me anywhere in them where LT created more then a universe? I bet you cant....


If you look through his scans extensively, you will see what I was talking about. I take it you just looked at Mr. Master's most recent scan, where he transforms Silver Surfer into a universe...








Originally posted by Galan777
i agree, and this is why death has no hold on them..... correct?????

So you finally agree that "stepping outside existance" simply means stepping outside creation into a void, like I have been arguing for the past 3 posts...

Yes or No ?

My POINT is much less powerful characters have done it...it's no big deal.

Originally posted by Galan777
name 10 lesser characters in DC that have done this under their own power for an extended length of time

DC characters? I don't know...but i can name 10 characters from other comic books....

1) Animora
2) Lawbringer XXTR
3) Ingra
4) Dawn
5) Angela
6) Spawn
7) Thanos
8) Samundel Rey
9) Urizen
10) Charon


They are all pretty much weaker than Micheal and Lucifer, but have all been through a null void, separate from prime creation, and have done just fine...



Originally posted by Galan777
the one saying that michael couldnt beat the titans


He couldn't though...Lucifer needed Mazikeen to impale Beatrice, since Beatrice was the conduit for Lucifer to harm the Titans in the timeline before they consumed Yahweh's omnipotence...

I assume you already know this, correct ?


Originally posted by Galan777
Again Im not saying that 1 side has a dominate victory over the other, but i think beth sides have a good chance.... Marvel might take the victory, but not by an enormous margin

Because of Thanos with HOTU and LT, the advantage is unfair. Marvel wins...Lucifer and Micheal are great, but they are not enough....

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
An apology? Is that how seriously you take this debate? Just calm down dude, as for your other comments, you are the one who needs to relax.. i am perfectly relaxed, but there is no need to call someone a fanboy when it is just not the case, all i was saying is that i was being respectful to you, and i would appreciate the same treatment




Originally posted by Lord Urizen
If you look through his scans extensively, you will see what I was talking about. I take it you just looked at Mr. Master's most recent scan, where he transforms Silver Surfer into a universe... you made it seem as though what LT did to surfer was in someway better then what Lucifer did, and thats just not the case, both of them made universes...




Originally posted by Lord Urizen
So you finally agree that "stepping outside existance" simply means stepping outside creation into a void, like I have been arguing for the past 3 posts...

Yes or No ? in terms of why Thanos didnt absorb death, then yes....... because death exists outside of creation, as for Lucifer, he can choose to step from outside of existance back into creation, not the other way around

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
My POINT is much less powerful characters have done it...it's no big deal. I never said it was



Originally posted by Lord Urizen
DC characters? I don't know...but i can name 10 characters from other comic books....

1) Animora
2) Lawbringer XXTR
3) Ingra
4) Dawn
5) Angela
6) Spawn
7) Thanos
8) Samundel Rey
9) Urizen
10) Charon these arent DC characters, my point from the beginning was that if its no big deal for a character to do this, then surely it would be no big deal for you to list 10 DC characters that could do it




Originally posted by Lord Urizen
He couldn't though...Lucifer needed Mazikeen to impale Beatrice, since Beatrice was the conduit for Lucifer to harm the Titans in the timeline before they consumed Yahweh's omnipotence...

I assume you already know this, correct ? Yes, that is how Lucifer beat them, but i assume that you also know that at this point, yahweh had stepped away from creation, he no longer existed, this was why Michael was weaker then normal, and this is also how the titans were able to become as powerful as they were, because they assumed Gods former power



Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Because of Thanos with HOTU and LT, the advantage is unfair. Marvel wins...Lucifer and Micheal are great, but they are not enough.... i wouldnt say its unfair for either side..... but one side has more on pannel feats

marvel wins for me