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Tenets of Faith

We Believe....

THE SCRIPTURES - The Bible is the inspired Word of God, the product of holy men of old who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. The New Covenant, as recorded in the New Testament, we accept as our infallible guide in matters pertaining to conduct and doctrine (2 Tim. 3:16; 1 Thess. 2:13; 2 Peter 1:21).

We Believe....

THE GODHEAD - Our God is one, but manifested in three Persons - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, being coequal (Deut. 6:4;Phil. 2:6). God the Father is greater than all; the Sender of the Word (Logos) and the Begetter (John 14:28; John 16:28; John 1:14). The Son is the Word flesh-covered, the One Begotten, and has existed with the Father from the beginning (John 1:1; John 1:18; John 1:14). The Holy Spirit proceeds forth from both the Father and the Son and is eternal (John 14:16;John 15:26).

We Believe....

MAN, HIS FALL AND REDEMPTION - Man is a created being, made in the likeness and image of God, but through Adam's transgression and fall, sin came into the world. The Bible says "...all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God," and "...There is none righteous, no, not one." (Rom. 3:10; 3:23). Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was manifested to undo the works of the devil and gave His life and shed His blood to redeem and restore man back to God (Rom. 5:14; 1 John 3:8).

Salvation is the gift of God to man, separate from works and the Law, and is made operative by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, producing works acceptable to God (Eph. 2:8-10).

We Believe....

ETERNAL LIFE AND THE NEW BIRTH - Man's first step toward salvation is godly sorrow that worketh repentance. The New Birth is necessary to all men, and when experienced, produces eternal life (2 Cor. 7:10; John 3:3-5; 1 John 5:12).

We Believe....

WATER BAPTISM - Baptism in water is by immersion, is a direct commandment of our Lord, and is for believers only. The ordinance is a symbol of the Christian's identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection (Matt. 28:19; Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12; Acts 8:36-39).

The following recommendation regarding the water baptismal formula is adopted; to wit: "On the confession of your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and by His authority, I baptize you in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Amen."

We Believe....

BAPTISM IN THE HOLY GHOST - The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received subsequent to the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).

We Believe....

SANCTIFICATION - The Bible teaches that without holiness no man can see the Lord. We believe in the Doctrine of Sanctification as a definite, yet progressive work of grace, commencing at the time of regeneration and continuing until the consummation of salvation at Christ's return (Heb. 12:14; 1 Thess. 5:23; 2 Peter 3:18; 2 Cor. 3:18; Phil. 3:12-14; 1 Cor. 1:30).

We Believe....

DIVINE HEALING - Healing is for the physical ills of the human body and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith, and by the laying on of hands. It is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Church today (James 5:14,15; Mark 16:18; Isa. 53:4,5; Matt. 8:17; 1 Peter 2:24).

We Believe....

RESURRECTION OF THE JUST AND THE RETURN OF OUR LORD - The angels said to Jesus' disciples, "...This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." His coming is imminent. When He comes, "...The dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air..." (Acts 1:11; 1 Thess. 4:16,17).

Following the Tribulation, He shall return to earth as King of kings, and Lord of lords, and together with His saints, who shall be kings and priests, He shall reign a thousand years (Rev. 5:10;20:6).

We Believe....

HELL AND ETERNAL RETRIBUTION - The one who physically dies in his sins without accepting Christ is hopelessly and eternally lost in the lake of fire and, therefore, has no further opportunity of hearing the Gospel or repenting. The lake of fire is literal. The terms "eternal" and "everlasting," used in describing the duration of the punishment of the damned in the lake of fire, carry the same thought and meaning of endless existence as used in denoting the duration of joy and ecstasy of saints in the Presence of God (Heb. 9:27; Rev. 19:20).

(excerpts taken from Rhema website)

http://www.rhema.org/about/tenets_faith.cfm

Who is we? After all, you wish to remove the majority of Christians from the Christian classification.

So is this a particular group of Christians?

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Who is we? After all, you wish to remove the majority of Christians from the Christian classification.

So is this a particular group of Christians?

Yes, and you are entitled to your opinion of me.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Yes, and you are entitled to your opinion of me.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough - which particular group of Christians is this "we"?

The insane fundamentalist kind, presumable. Faith healing?

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Maybe I wasn't clear enough - which particular group of Christians is this "we"?

The non-denominational kind.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Tenets of Faith

We Believe....

THE SCRIPTURES - The Bible is the inspired Word of God, the product of holy men of old who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. The New Covenant, as recorded in the New Testament, we accept as our infallible guide in matters pertaining to conduct and doctrine (2 Tim. 3:16; 1 Thess. 2:13; 2 Peter 1:21).

We Believe....

THE GODHEAD - Our God is one, but manifested in three Persons - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, being coequal (Deut. 6:4;Phil. 2:6). God the Father is greater than all; the Sender of the Word (Logos) and the Begetter (John 14:28; John 16:28; John 1:14). The Son is the Word flesh-covered, the One Begotten, and has existed with the Father from the beginning (John 1:1; John 1:18; John 1:14). The Holy Spirit proceeds forth from both the Father and the Son and is eternal (John 14:16;John 15:26).

We Believe....

MAN, HIS FALL AND REDEMPTION - Man is a created being, made in the likeness and image of God, but through Adam's transgression and fall, sin came into the world. The Bible says "...all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God," and "...There is none righteous, no, not one." (Rom. 3:10; 3:23). Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was manifested to undo the works of the devil and gave His life and shed His blood to redeem and restore man back to God (Rom. 5:14; 1 John 3:8).

Salvation is the gift of God to man, separate from works and the Law, and is made operative by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, producing works acceptable to God (Eph. 2:8-10).

We Believe....

ETERNAL LIFE AND THE NEW BIRTH - Man's first step toward salvation is godly sorrow that worketh repentance. The New Birth is necessary to all men, and when experienced, produces eternal life (2 Cor. 7:10; John 3:3-5; 1 John 5:12).

We Believe....

WATER BAPTISM - Baptism in water is by immersion, is a direct commandment of our Lord, and is for believers only. The ordinance is a symbol of the Christian's identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection (Matt. 28:19; Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12; Acts 8:36-39).

The following recommendation regarding the water baptismal formula is adopted; to wit: "On the confession of your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and by His authority, I baptize you in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Amen."

We Believe....

BAPTISM IN THE HOLY GHOST - The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received subsequent to the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).

We Believe....

SANCTIFICATION - The Bible teaches that without holiness no man can see the Lord. We believe in the Doctrine of Sanctification as a definite, yet progressive work of grace, commencing at the time of regeneration and continuing until the consummation of salvation at Christ's return (Heb. 12:14; 1 Thess. 5:23; 2 Peter 3:18; 2 Cor. 3:18; Phil. 3:12-14; 1 Cor. 1:30).

We Believe....

DIVINE HEALING - Healing is for the physical ills of the human body and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith, and by the laying on of hands. It is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Church today (James 5:14,15; Mark 16:18; Isa. 53:4,5; Matt. 8:17; 1 Peter 2:24).

We Believe....

RESURRECTION OF THE JUST AND THE RETURN OF OUR LORD - The angels said to Jesus' disciples, "...This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." His coming is imminent. When He comes, "...The dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air..." (Acts 1:11; 1 Thess. 4:16,17).

Following the Tribulation, He shall return to earth as King of kings, and Lord of lords, and together with His saints, who shall be kings and priests, He shall reign a thousand years (Rev. 5:10;20:6).

We Believe....

HELL AND ETERNAL RETRIBUTION - The one who physically dies in his sins without accepting Christ is hopelessly and eternally lost in the lake of fire and, therefore, has no further opportunity of hearing the Gospel or repenting. The lake of fire is literal. The terms "eternal" and "everlasting," used in describing the duration of the punishment of the damned in the lake of fire, carry the same thought and meaning of endless existence as used in denoting the duration of joy and ecstasy of saints in the Presence of God (Heb. 9:27; Rev. 19:20).

(excerpts taken from Rhema website)

http://www.rhema.org/about/tenets_faith.cfm Then you believe mainly what Paul taught, not Jesus.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Then you believe mainly what Paul taught, not Jesus.


Paul is not my Savior, Jesus Christ is.

Paul became a follower and preacher for Jesus Christ after the Lord spoke to Him and called him into His service. Stop making false accusations about Paul he did nothing to you. His is Christ's servant.

I didn't know this was show and tell time.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Paul is not my Savior, Jesus Christ is.

Paul became a follower and preacher for Jesus Christ after the Lord spoke to Him and called him into His service. Stop making false accusations about Paul he did nothing to you. His is Christ's servant. You don't like me picking on Paul??

Why? He's a liar.

And evil.

If Paul is not his savior then why is he following the teaching of Paul?

Originally posted by debbiejo
You don't like me picking on Paul??

Why? He's a liar.

No, I believe that the only one casting aspersions is you. Paul is not here to defend himself. How can you call a person a liar when (according to the Bible) you are the one who is a liar. I am not calling you a liar, I said according to the Bible you are a liar because you have said things that shamefully, and egregiously contradict the Bible. Paul has not contradicted the Bible but you have. Paul has written 14 of the 27 Books in the New Testament and not once did He write something that contradicted the Old Testament or any of the writings written by others who wrote Books in the New Testament. But you have contradicted the Scriptures almost everytime that you have spoken on this forum.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
No, I believe that the only one casting aspersions is you. Paul is not here to defend himself. How can you call a person a liar when (according to the Bible) you are the one who is a liar. I am not calling you a liar, I said according to the Bible you are a liar because you have said things that shamefully, and egregiously contradict the Bible. Paul has not contradicted the Bible but you have. Paul has written 14 of the 27 Books in the New Testament and not once did He write something that contradicted the Old Testament. But you have contradicted the Scriptures almost everytime that you have spoken on this forum. You would do better to throw out everything in the NT except what Jesus taught.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
No, I believe that the only one casting aspersions is you. Paul is not here to defend himself. How can you call a person a liar when (according to the Bible) you are the one who is a liar. I am not calling you a liar, I said according to the Bible you are a liar because you have said things that shamefully, and egregiously contradict the Bible. Paul has not contradicted the Bible but you have. Paul has written 14 of the 27 Books in the New Testament and not once did He write something that contradicted the Old Testament. But you have contradicted the Scriptures almost everytime that you have spoken on this forum.

I don't know what to say but

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
So is this a particular group of Christians?


Fundamentalist Jesustology


JesusIsAlive, why do you choose to talk Cryptic like the Bible? Do you see yourself as the people that wrote it?

Wouldn't that make the bible itself a liar, considering that it contradicts itself all the time? God a liar, since he contradicts his own commandments?

Oh, blind faith.

Originally posted by debbiejo
You would do better to throw out everything in the NT except what Jesus taught.


I thank God that I know better than to listen to you.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I thank God that I know better than to listen to you.

What a Bad Pun........

Originally posted by Lana
Wouldn't that make the bible itself a liar, considering that it contradicts itself all the time? God a liar, since he contradicts his own commandments?

You have made a comment without supporting it with any facts or proof.

Thats the story of your existance.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You have made a comment without supporting it with any facts or proof.

Where is your proof that the events written in the bible happened as told?

And no, you may not use the bible itself as proof. You can't prove something by using it as evidence.

Originally posted by Lana
You can't prove something by using it as evidence.

Supershadow did it

Originally posted by Lana
Where is your proof that the events written in the bible happened as told?

And no, you may not use the bible itself as proof. You can't prove something by using it as evidence.


You have just asked me to prove something to you without first proving your allegations to me. Did you forget that I asked you to prove your statemtent that the Bible contradicts itself?

Don' t skirt the issue or try to redirect the onus on me when the burden of proof is on you.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Supershadow did it

Yes, well, Supershadow is a delusional fool

But I see your point

Skirting the issue again Lana? I wrote you a message in the post above yours.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You have just asked me to prove something to you without first proving your allegations to me. Did you forget that I asked you to prove your statemtent that the Bible contradicts itself?

Don' t skirt the issue or try to redirect the onus on me when the burden of proof is on you.

Burden of Proof is on Religion, what you're saying is that if right now I said......"I'm God! Prove me wrong!" it would be up to non-religous folk to prove it, rather than the "God" to prove he is God

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Supershadow did it

Did he release his supersecret I'm friends with God "New New Testament?"

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Skirting the issue again Lana? I wrote you a message in the post above yours.

Actually I did, sorry ban

Originally posted by Alliance
Did he release his supersecret I'm friends with God "New New Testament?"

Actually he says he IS God, on his new fansite

Man, how come everytime I try to talk to Lana someone interrupts. It is okay fellas she is a big girl she can answer for herself (I think).

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Actually he says he IS God, on his new fansite

Oh, I see. Well, I'll just have to kiss his @ss then.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You have just asked me to prove something to you without first proving your allegations to me. Did you forget that I asked you to prove your statemtent that the Bible contradicts itself?

Don' t skirt the issue or try to redirect the onus on me when the burden of proof is on you.

Burden of proof is on me?

You are the one who claims that what happened in the bible is true, it happened, etc.; without ever backing up your claims.

God disobeying his own commandments? One is "thou shall not murder/kill" (depending on the translation). God sure has no problems with killing people himself.

Supposedly anyone who doesn't believe will go to 'hell' (which is a concept that was invented by the Roman Catholic church in the middle ages, btw), but god forgives all. Which is it?

And how about the fact that different Christian sects have been known to leave out or edit parts of the bible they did not like? What about things that have been lost in translation?

Now, tell me where your proof that the events of the bible happened as told is.

Originally posted by Lana
Burden of proof is on me?

You are the one who claims that what happened in the bible is true, it happened, etc.; without ever backing up your claims.

God disobeying his own commandments? One is "thou shall not murder/kill" (depending on the translation). God sure has no problems with killing people himself.

Supposedly anyone who doesn't believe will go to 'hell' (which is a concept that was invented by the Roman Catholic church in the middle ages, btw), but god forgives all. Which is it?

And how about the fact that different Christian sects have been known to leave out or edit parts of the bible they did not like? What about things that have been lost in translation?

Now, tell me where your proof that the events of the bible happened as told is.

There were some Historical accounts of battles/wars/people existing back in the day

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
There were some Historical accounts of battles/wars/people existing back in the day

I am aware of that, but that in itself does not prove that god exists, that Jesus is holy, etc.

It is also a well-known fact that many of Christianity's holidays were stolen from pagan religions.

The Bible is Historical Fiction. It is not credible. I read fiction all the time thats not even historical fiction that uses real people, especially real places.

Originally posted by Alliance
The Bible is Historical Fiction. It is not credible. I read fiction all the time thats not even historical fiction that uses real people, especially real places.

People like to take it as fact, though, which I find rather silly.

So, JIA, how old is the earth?

Originally posted by Lana
I am aware of that, but that in itself does not prove that god exists, that Jesus is holy, etc.

It is also a well-known fact that many of Christianity's holidays were stolen from pagan religions.

Yea, I know, but some of the Bible is factual, or maybe it's the Ancient Way of making a Movie, like these fictional Squads in WW2 that were sent to capture Nazi Superweapons such as the Mech and Nazi Necromancy Book

Yes, Christmas was Norse

Originally posted by Lana
Burden of proof is on me?

You are the one who claims that what happened in the bible is true, it happened, etc.; without ever backing up your claims.

God disobeying his own commandments? One is "thou shall not murder/kill" (depending on the translation). God sure has no problems with killing people himself.

Supposedly anyone who doesn't believe will go to 'hell' (which is a concept that was invented by the Roman Catholic church in the middle ages, btw), but god forgives all. Which is it?

And how about the fact that different Christian sects have been known to leave out or edit parts of the bible they did not like? What about things that have been lost in translation?

Now, tell me where your proof that the events of the bible happened as told is.

Lana...(tries to repress laughter)....(sorry, I am trying to get my composure)...(eyes closed concentrating and chuckling still)...(5 minutes later). Okay, I can write now. Lana, those are not contradictions. Can someone out there, some kind soul out there in forum land please tell Lana what a contradiction is so that I can answer her question?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Lana...(tries to repress laughter)....(sorry, I am trying to get my composure)...(eyes closed concentrating and chuckling still)...(5 minutes later). Okay, I can write now. Lana, those are not contradictions. Can someone out there, some kind soul out there in forum land please tell Lana what a contradiction is so that I can answer her question?

Actually the first ones were, like God Murdering Millions of people suposedly, yet he sends people to hell for it *cough* Hypocrit *cough*

Oh wait, did JIA put me on Ignore a while back?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Lana...(tries to repress laughter)....(sorry, I am trying to get my composure)...(eyes closed concentrating and chuckling still)...(5 minutes later). Okay, I can write now. Lana, those are not contradictions. Can someone out there, some kind soul out there in forum land please tell Lana what a contradiction is so that I can answer her question?

Can we recruit a mod to ban?

Originally posted by Alliance
Can we recruit a mod to ban?

pizza


tooth


tv_horror





ban

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Lana...(tries to repress laughter)....(sorry, I am trying to get my composure)...(eyes closed concentrating and chuckling still)...(5 minutes later). Okay, I can write now. Lana, those are not contradictions. Can someone out there, some kind soul out there in forum land please tell Lana what a contradiction is so that I can answer her question?

Actually, they ARE contradictions. A contradiction is, in it's simplest form, saying/doing one thing, and then later saying/doing the opposite.

God telling people to not kill or murder but happily doing it whenever he dislikes what man is doing with the free will he supposedly gave everyone is contradictory of his word, hypocritical, and if you really want to get into it, not wanting to take responsibility for his actions.

Claiming everyone will be damned to hell but then later going "but not really" is contradictory.

I'm sure that if I actually owned a bible I could find more, but to be honest, "debating" with you (can't even call it a debate as you do nothing but dodge questions and copy-paste answers) isn't worth the effort.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Lana...(tries to repress laughter)....(sorry, I am trying to get my composure)...(eyes closed concentrating and chuckling still)...(5 minutes later). Okay, I can write now. Lana, those are not contradictions. Can someone out there, some kind soul out there in forum land please tell Lana what a contradiction is so that I can answer her question?

You get back what you put fourth.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Lana...(tries to repress laughter)....(sorry, I am trying to get my composure)...(eyes closed concentrating and chuckling still)...(5 minutes later). Okay, I can write now. Lana, those are not contradictions. Can someone out there, some kind soul out there in forum land please tell Lana what a contradiction is so that I can answer her question?



oh boy sorry I had to laugh at you attempting to try to know what a contradiction is... can someone please tell JIA what a contradiction REALLY is...

Originally posted by dark99


oh boy sorry I had to laugh at you attempting to try to know what a contradiction is... can someone please tell JIA what a contradiction REALLY is...

JIA being nice to someone?

Originally posted by Lana
Actually, they ARE contradictions. A contradiction is, in it's simplest form, saying/doing one thing, and then later saying/doing the opposite.

God telling people to not kill or murder but happily doing it whenever he dislikes what man is doing with the free will he supposedly gave everyone is contradictory of his word, hypocritical, and if you really want to get into it, not wanting to take responsibility for his actions.

Claiming everyone will be damned to hell but then later going "but not really" is contradictory.

I'm sure that if I actually owned a bible I could find more, but to be honest, "debating" with you (can't even call it a debate as you do nothing but dodge questions and copy-paste answers) isn't worth the effort.

Lana, I sincerely apologize for hurting your feelings. I already know that if I state my reasons why your questions are really not contradictions you will just find a way to make them so. So why bother?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Lana, I sincerely apologize for hurting your feelings. I already know that if I state my reasons why your questions are really not contradictions you will just find a way to make them so. So why bother?

In other words, you cannot answer so you are making it out to be my fault.

Dodging the questions. Just as I called it.

I knew I was correct in deeming this not worth any time or effort.

Originally posted by Lana
In other words, you cannot answer so you are making it out to be my fault.

Dodging the questions. Just as I called it.

I knew I was correct in deeming this not worth any time or effort.

God is sovereign Lana. You, me, and everyone else are not. God is Judge of all the earth, it is to Him that all people will answer for their sins, not the other way around. So having said all of that, God can arbitrarily choose to bring someone's life to an end in punishment for sin. It is His prerogative.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You have made a comment without supporting it with any facts or proof.

What facts or proof have you EVER supplied on KMC forums ?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
God is sovereign Lana. You, me, and everyone else are not. God is Judge of all the earth, it is to Him that all people will answer for their sins, not the other way around. So having said all of that, God can arbitrarily choose to bring someone's life to an end in punishment for sin. It is His prerogative.

But the obvious detail remains, that God contradicts himself according to the entirety of the Bible...

Repent (change your mind) and turn from your sins Jesus Christ is coming soon.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

being coequal

is that like "seperate but equal"?

All you do is upset people JIA, but not in a good way. You may have good intentions, but practically speaking, you're an awful Christian.

Besides, have you changed anyone's mind here on KMC? Have you made any friends? Have you worked God's message? Probably no on all counts. It might be time to change tactics, or just move on from KMC.

Anyway, I wonder if there's multiple denominations of "non-denominational" Christians?

And Lana? Here? Dear Lord (i.e. David Hasslehoff until otherwise proven), I never expected to see that.

Just out of curiosity JIA what does your user name actually mean?

Do you mean to say that 'Jesus is Alive' as in walking here on Earth among us or do you mean it in a metaphorical sense such as 'he's alive in our hearts?'

Originally posted by DigiMark007
good intentions

I heard the road to hell was paved with them. But, I doubt he'd get it...since it's not in the bible.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
or just move on from KMC.

Well now, back to the original question. Here's the basics of what I believe. (We in this case is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints)



This doesn't mean trinitarian doctrine. They function as one, They don't function as some mysterious three in one



Yep, the only one who will be punished for what Adam did or didn't do is Adam



Basically we think that everyone, past, present, or future, will get the chance to accept or reject the gift Christ offers the world. Makes a bit more sense than thinking that just because someone didn't hear about Jesus in this life he's going to hell. Everyone is treated equally.



Self explanatory. You gotta have faith before anything else happens, but it isn't the only thing required.



Men can't just decide to be priests or prophets, God calls them through pre-established channels. Just like Aaron (Moses' brother) was called to his position.



The Church of Christ should be pretty darn similar to the one Jesus actually set up.



Self explanatory. Although I should clear up that we don't think that the gift of tongues involves having a seizure on the floor or just saying something that no one understands.



Self explanatory.



God hasn't stopped talking. The bible isn't the end of His dealings with His children.



Well, literal would mean literal now wouldn't it.



Yep, let us worship as seems us best and we'll do the same for you.



We look for anything that is good and true. Even things in other faiths.




I know we all rag on JIA, but the question is a good one as long as it's honestly asked. (I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here)

WHEN ARE WE gonna start IGNORING the rantings of JIA??

Oh maybe when he pisses of all the mods and brings back all the old threads and someone bans him?????

I don't ignore problems. I'm unabel t solve this one immediately, so I was hoping for a ban, but JIA would just sock and that wouldn't change much.

Ignoing will only work if its done on a communal basis.

Originally posted by Alliance
I don't ignore problems. I'm unabel t solve this one immediately, so I was hoping for a ban, but JIA would just sock and that wouldn't change much.

Ignoing will only work if its done on a communal basis.

That's assuming he isn't one already...which he is.

Originally posted by RZA
Just out of curiosity JIA what does your user name actually mean?

Do you mean to say that 'Jesus is Alive' as in walking here on Earth among us or do you mean it in a metaphorical sense such as 'he's alive in our hearts?'

That means He is alive and well literally. Jesus Christ rose from the dead and is currently seated at the right hand of His Father in Heaven. In addition, He lives in all believers by His Holy Spirit.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
That means He is alive and well literally. Jesus Christ rose from the dead and is currently seated at the right hand of His Father in Heaven. In addition, He lives in all believers by His Holy Spirit.

We all raise from the dead, it's called reincarnation.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Repent (change your mind) and turn from your sins Jesus Christ is coming soon.

You will never see Jesus.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Repent (change your mind) and turn from your sins Jesus Christ is coming soon.

IS that a Threat ?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
God is sovereign Lana. You, me, and everyone else are not. God is Judge of all the earth, it is to Him that all people will answer for their sins, not the other way around. So having said all of that, God can arbitrarily choose to bring someone's life to an end in punishment for sin. It is His prerogative.

Would you care to prove this?

Originally posted by DigiMark007
And Lana? Here? Dear Lord (i.e. David Hasslehoff until otherwise proven), I never expected to see that.

Hehe, hey Digi hug It's rare, very very rare. I haven't got the patience for this forum normally.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Repent (change your mind) and turn from your sins Jesus Christ is coming soon. When? I need to make sure I have clean underwear.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Repent (change your mind) and turn from your sins Jesus Christ is coming soon.

Can I repent, turn from my sins and believe in Jesus and not join your Church, but stay a Buddhist?

Originally posted by docb77
Well now, back to the original question. Here's the basics of what I believe. (We in this case is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) Thanks for responding for our religion to this thread. I had considered responding, but I doubt I would have remained as clear and succinct. It was well written imo.

Originally posted by Regret
Thanks for responding for our religion to this thread. I had considered responding, but I doubt I would have remained as clear and succinct. It was well written imo.

It's pretty easy when it's already simplified like it is. It might take some explaining, but the basics are pretty straightforward. It's when you get beyond the basics that complications arise.

Originally posted by docb77
It's pretty easy when it's already simplified like it is. It might take some explaining, but the basics are pretty straightforward. It's when you get beyond the basics that complications arise. Agreed, I like to go beyond the basics, probably the problem I have explaining my beliefs at times, and why you were better suited to responding here.

Every time I read the title of this thread. I picture JIA going up to a person...saying "What you you believe?" and then instantly punching in their nose with a very thick steel plated bible.

JIA and the Jesus Mafia?

Time to form the FBI. I'm Director Of National Intellignce.

Originally posted by docb77
Well now, back to the original question. Here's the basics of what I believe. (We in this case is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints)



This doesn't mean trinitarian doctrine. They function as one, They don't function as some mysterious three in one



Yep, the only one who will be punished for what Adam did or didn't do is Adam



Basically we think that everyone, past, present, or future, will get the chance to accept or reject the gift Christ offers the world. Makes a bit more sense than thinking that just because someone didn't hear about Jesus in this life he's going to hell. Everyone is treated equally.



Self explanatory. You gotta have faith before anything else happens, but it isn't the only thing required.



Men can't just decide to be priests or prophets, God calls them through pre-established channels. Just like Aaron (Moses' brother) was called to his position.



The Church of Christ should be pretty darn similar to the one Jesus actually set up.



Self explanatory. Although I should clear up that we don't think that the gift of tongues involves having a seizure on the floor or just saying something that no one understands.



Self explanatory.



God hasn't stopped talking. The bible isn't the end of His dealings with His children.



Well, literal would mean literal now wouldn't it.



Yep, let us worship as seems us best and we'll do the same for you.



We look for anything that is good and true. Even things in other faiths.




I know we all rag on JIA, but the question is a good one as long as it's honestly asked. (I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here)

Docb77, do you believe as the Bible teaches that Jesus Christ has always existed and that (in His incarnation only) He was conceived of the Holy Spirit in the womb of Mary (who was a virgin at the time)?

Originally posted by Lana

Claiming everyone will be damned to hell but then later going "but not really" is contradictory.




Um, God says everyone IS going to hell, UNLESS they accept Jesus Christ as their lord and saviour. How is that a contradiction?

Many gods say many things.

Originally posted by SupezM'
Um, God says everyone IS going to hell, UNLESS they accept Jesus Christ as their lord and saviour. How is that a contradiction?

That statement is consistent with Scripture.

There is one good thing about JIA's posts, the more he posts, the people turn atheist.

Thats nto true at all.

The more he posts, the more people dislike born-agains.

Originally posted by SupezM'
Um, God says everyone IS going to hell, UNLESS they accept Jesus Christ as their lord and saviour. How is that a contradiction?

Well - by all accounts following the Biblical fall mankind was apparently doomed 100% - no Jesus for thousands of years.

Then suddenly out of the blue God sends Jesus and we are told we can be saved. Which is kind of contradictory. Why not send Jesus as soon as Adam and Eve were voted out of the Garden? Why let so many die with no way to achieve salvation, if Jesus was vital for that?

And how did the Jews get to heaven? Originally God's "chosen" people, around before Jesus, the path to salvation. When God was leading them around deserts and all that and they died - did they go straight to heaven?

Exactly. The Jews were God's chosen people....why did all of them go to hell, jsut because god was too lazy to get off his ass and send down a son?

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Well - by all accounts following the Biblical fall mankind was apparently doomed 100% - no Jesus for thousands of years.

Then suddenly out of the blue God sends Jesus and we are told we can be saved. Which is kind of contradictory. Why not send Jesus as soon as Adam and Eve were voted out of the Garden? Why let so many die with no way to achieve salvation, if Jesus was vital for that?

And how did the Jews get to heaven? Originally God's "chosen" people, around before Jesus, the path to salvation. When God was leading them around deserts and all that and they died - did they go straight to heaven?

Care to respond to my post in The U.S. Constitution Mentions Jesus Christ, Started by: JesusIsAlive. I quoted several statements and prefaced them with the word fact. I think you are qualified to respond because you give well-thought out reasons for what you think. You don't just say, "This is so because it is."

Now in response to this post I will say that God is wiser and smarter than you are Imperial. So He has it all figured out concerning how folks can be saved. I honestly don't understand why you raise such issues. The crucifixion of Jesus Christ was foreordained before the foundation of the world. In God's great foreknowledge and wisdom He already planned a way whereby the world could redeemed by the Blood of His Son Jesus before the world existed. Jesus even told Pilate that he (Pilate) could have no power at all against Him except it had been given to him from above (i.e. from God). It was God's plan to give His only, Begotten Son as a ransom for the sins of the world.

But to get to the heart of what you said, God gave Abraham credit for righteousness through Abraham's faith (Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness). Perhaps God gave everyone credit for being righteousness prior to the advent of Jesus. Who knows, who cares. God has it all worked out.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Care to respond to my post in The U.S. Constitution Mentions Jesus Christ, Started by: JesusIsAlive. I quoted several statements and prefaced them with the word fact. I think you are qualified to respond because you give well-thought out reasons for what you think. You don't just say, "This is so because it is."

Now in response to this post I will say that God is wiser and smarter than you are Imperial. So He has it all figured out concerning how folks can be saved. I honestly don't understand why you raise such issues. The crucifixion of Jesus Christ was foreordained before the foundation of the world. In God's great foreknowledge and wisdom He already planned a way whereby the world could redeemed by the Blood of His Son Jesus before the world existed. Jesus even told Pilate that he (Pilate) could have no power at all against Him except it had been given to him from above (i.e. from God). It was God's plan to give His only, Begotten Son as a ransom for the sins of the world.

But to get to the heart of what you said, God gave Abraham credit for righteousness through Abraham's faith (Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness). Perhaps God gave everyone credit for being righteousness prior to the advent of Jesus. Who knows, who cares. God has it all worked out.


People who are sent hell because god pocrastinates care.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Now in response to this post I will say that God is wiser and smarter than you are Imperial. So He has it all figured out concerning how folks can be saved. I honestly don't understand why you raise such issues. The crucifixion of Jesus Christ was foreordained before the foundation of the world. In God's great foreknowledge and wisdom He already planned a way whereby the world could redeemed by the Blood of His Son Jesus before the world existed. Jesus even told Pilate that he (Pilate) could have no power at all against Him except it had been given to him from above (i.e. from God). It was God's plan to give His only, Begotten Son as a ransom for the sins of the world.

Why do I ask such questions? Because I like to know? Because knowledge is important? It is a way of growing, of learning?

And because if I were to believe in a God I would want to know it was for a just reason. This is a hole in the story for me -

1st - Adam and Eve fall. They are now separate from God, and there descendants in sin, and thus doomed.

2nd - The Bible claims that only through Jesus can one be saved from that Original sin.

3rd - But Jesus was born thousands of years after that event - thousands of people came and went without salvation

4th - By rights they couldn't have known of Jesus, so couldn't be saved.

5th - The Jews were God's chosen people, and when doing as there told one Good terms with God - but they didn't believe in Jesus, and the messiah hadn't come to offer salvation... so how did that work?



And in that sense it would be better if Jesus hadn't come. People deserve credit for their "righteousness" - not simply for believing in a figure without evidence. Faith should be less important then action and intent.

But as to it - why didn't God feel bothered to have it recorded? I mean, when one considers the stuff that got into the Bible it seem remarkable that God wouldn't have felt the need to comment on the souls of the thousands of people unfortunate enough to be born after the fall but before the avenue to salvation was offered.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Why do I ask such questions? Because I like to know? Because knowledge is important? It is a way of growing, of learning?



Not to mention, god is not very good/powerful/caring if he hasn't figuresd this out this.

Hell, god might be as dumb as JIA seems.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Who knows, who cares. God has it all worked out.

FINALLY!

Originally posted by JesusisAlive
What do you beleive?

Like you CARE what we beleive....

Originally posted by JesusisAlive
Here's what we beleive

Like we CARE what you beleive...

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Like you CARE what we beleive....

Like we CARE what you beleive...
Which exposes the whole irony of this thread.

Originally posted by Alliance


Not to mention, god is not very good/powerful/caring if he hasn't figuresd this out this.

Hell, god might be as dumb as JIA seems.

True, true. I question the claim of God's greatness if he is so unaware of the way his creation thinks. A politicean in the modern world has to know how to get to the voters, to reach them and understand the way they think.

God on the other hand doesn't care that the majority of people don't think the way the Bible says they should.





I must have blacked out and by odd probability typed that as a thrashed about, I'd never say it while conscious.

Originally posted by Alliance
Which exposes the whole irony of this thread.

AHAHAHAHAAAA

I know droolio

Originally posted by lord xyz
There is one good thing about JIA's posts, the more he posts, the people turn atheist.

Well that is sort of true, I had a great deal of respect for Christianity until JIA showed me his version of Christianity, it scares the crap out of me and I want to stay away from it. Thanks JIA, you have shown me the error of my ways.

Originally posted by crazy
Well that is sort of true, I had a great deal of respect for Christianity until JIA showed me his version of Christianity, it scares the crap out of me and I want to stay away from it. Thanks JIA, you have shown me the error of my ways.

droolio

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Why do I ask such questions? Because I like to know? Because knowledge is important? It is a way of growing, of learning?

And because if I were to believe in a God I would want to know it was for a just reason. This is a hole in the story for me -

1st - Adam and Eve fall. They are now separate from God, and there descendants in sin, and thus doomed.

2nd - The Bible claims that only through Jesus can one be saved from that Original sin.

3rd - But Jesus was born thousands of years after that event - thousands of people came and went without salvation

4th - By rights they couldn't have known of Jesus, so couldn't be saved.

5th - The Jews were God's chosen people, and when doing as there told one Good terms with God - but they didn't believe in Jesus, and the messiah hadn't come to offer salvation... so how did that work?



And in that sense it would be better if Jesus hadn't come. People deserve credit for their "righteousness" - not simply for believing in a figure without evidence. Faith should be less important then action and intent.

But as to it - why didn't God feel bothered to have it recorded? I mean, when one considers the stuff that got into the Bible it seem remarkable that God wouldn't have felt the need to comment on the souls of the thousands of people unfortunate enough to be born after the fall but before the avenue to salvation was offered.

What?!?

You have grossly misunderstood what I posted. I said that God gave Abraham's faith (he believed God) credit for righteousness. I did not say (now listen very closely) that God gave Abraham's righteousness credit.

Can you see the difference?

If I had said that God gave Abraham's righteousness credit then that would mean that Abraham would have something to boas about before God. Furthermore, that would imply that Abraham was saved by his works (good moral deeds) instead of by his faith in God.

But I did not say that. Here is what I said:

But to get to the heart of what you said, God gave Abraham credit for righteousness through Abraham's faith (Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness).

Did you catch that, did you see the huge difference? God imputed, accounted, or gave Abraham credit for being righteous through Abraham's faith--not on the basis of his works. This is an invariable Truth found throughout Scripture. We are saved by faith alone apart from our works. Our works should be the evidence, proof, or fruit of our salvation not the source of it. God is the source of it in Abraham's case because Jesus had not yet arrived. But now God commands people everywhere to repent of their sins and to exercise faith in the finished work of Jesus the Christ for salvation--from sin Debbiejoe.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Care to respond to my post in The U.S. Constitution Mentions Jesus Christ, Started by: JesusIsAlive. I quoted several statements and prefaced them with the word fact. I think you are qualified to respond because you give well-thought out reasons for what you think. You don't just say, "This is so because it is."

Now in response to this post I will say that God is wiser and smarter than you are Imperial. So He has it all figured out concerning how folks can be saved. I honestly don't understand why you raise such issues. The crucifixion of Jesus Christ was foreordained before the foundation of the world. In God's great foreknowledge and wisdom He already planned a way whereby the world could redeemed by the Blood of His Son Jesus before the world existed. Jesus even told Pilate that he (Pilate) could have no power at all against Him except it had been given to him from above (i.e. from God). It was God's plan to give His only, Begotten Son as a ransom for the sins of the world.

But to get to the heart of what you said, God gave Abraham credit for righteousness through Abraham's faith (Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness). Perhaps God gave everyone credit for being righteousness prior to the advent of Jesus. Who knows, who cares. God has it all worked out.


I have got to love how the biggest question dodger on this forum is asking someone else in a different thread to answer his. You did not answer debbiejo's posts on the days, you seemed to have been backed into a corner and started copying and pasting about being saved which had nothing to do with the topic at hand.

He does it for everyone. He just ignores all my questions.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Why do I ask such questions? Because I like to know? Because knowledge is important? It is a way of growing, of learning?

And because if I were to believe in a God I would want to know it was for a just reason. This is a hole in the story for me -

1st - Adam and Eve fall. They are now separate from God, and there descendants in sin, and thus doomed.

2nd - The Bible claims that only through Jesus can one be saved from that Original sin.

3rd - But Jesus was born thousands of years after that event - thousands of people came and went without salvation

4th - By rights they couldn't have known of Jesus, so couldn't be saved.

5th - The Jews were God's chosen people, and when doing as there told one Good terms with God - but they didn't believe in Jesus, and the messiah hadn't come to offer salvation... so how did that work?



And in that sense it would be better if Jesus hadn't come. People deserve credit for their "righteousness" - not simply for believing in a figure without evidence. Faith should be less important then action and intent.

But as to it - why didn't God feel bothered to have it recorded? I mean, when one considers the stuff that got into the Bible it seem remarkable that God wouldn't have felt the need to comment on the souls of the thousands of people unfortunate enough to be born after the fall but before the avenue to salvation was offered.

What?!?

You have grossly misunderstood what I posted. I said that God gave Abraham's faith (he believed God) credit for righteousness. I did not say (now listen very closely) that God gave Abraham's righteousness credit.

Can you see the difference?

If I had said that God gave Abraham's righteousness credit then that would mean that Abraham would have something to boast about before God. Furthermore, that would imply that Abraham was saved by his works (good moral deeds) instead of by his faith in God.

But I did not say that. Here is what I said:

But to get to the heart of what you said, God gave Abraham credit for righteousness through Abraham's faith (Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness).

Did you catch that, did you see the huge difference?

God imputed, accounted, or gave Abraham credit for being righteous through Abraham's faith--not on the basis of his works. This is an invariable Truth found throughout Scripture. We are saved by faith alone apart from our works. Our works should be the evidence, proof, or fruit of our salvation not the source of it. God is the source of it in Abraham's case because Jesus had not yet arrived. But now God commands people everywhere to repent of their sins and to exercise faith in the finished work of Jesus the Christ for salvation--from sin Debbiejoe just in case you are reading this.

DID YOU CATCH THAT? HUH IMP? HUH? DID YOU CATCH THAT?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What?!?

You have grossly misunderstood what I posted. I said that God gave Abraham's faith (he believed God) credit for righteousness. I did not say (now listen very closely) that God gave Abraham's righteousness credit.

Can you see the difference?

I was saying that it is better to reward someone for something other then believing in Jesus - their actions and intents. Sorry if that wasn't clear.



And as I was saying it would be more just to be saved not by faith but by actions and intents. I won't be given a Nobel Peace Prize for belief in God, I will be given it for what I contribute. God gave people free will to live their lives - it would make sense to measure them by what they did with their lives, not because they spent their years thinking Jesus had set up shop in their hearts.



Yes, I thought I better respond before he posted it again.

We'll probably see 5 more posts anyway.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive


DIVINE HEALING - Healing is for the physical ills of the human body and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith, and by the laying on of hands. It is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Church today (James 5:14,15; Mark 16:18; Isa. 53:4,5; Matt. 8:17; 1 Peter 2:24).



Does this con still work? Pretty sad...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Docb77, do you believe as the Bible teaches that Jesus Christ has always existed and that (in His incarnation only) He was conceived of the Holy Spirit in the womb of Mary (who was a virgin at the time)?

As I explain in more detail in answer to the same question in another thread. That's mostly right. Jesus has always existed. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost, and yes Mary was a virgin at the time (though after that she became a typical jewish mother/wife having other children).

Originally posted by docb77
As I explain in more detail in answer to the same question in another thread. That's mostly right. Jesus has always existed. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost, and yes Mary was a virgin at the time (though after that she became a typical jewish mother/wife having other children).

So you took issue with the way that I phrased my question. I asked if you believed that Jesus Christ was conceived of the Holy Spirit instead of by the power of the Holy Spirit. That is perhaps where the breakdown in communication occurred. But Jesus in His (incarnation only) was (at the time that He became flesh i.e. human) Child of the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ was conceived in Mary's womb and was described as being of the Holy Spirit (in stark contrast to being described as being of Joseph). The point: is that Jesus true Father is God and not Joseph. But this does not take anything away from the Lord Jesus. Remember: Jesus Christ has always existed. But He was not called Jesus until He became flesh (i.e. human). Jesus Name or appellation in eternity past was the Word. Actually Jesus had several designations in eternity during His pre-incarnation.