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Who wins?

Antimonitor is going to have himself a HUGE meal.

Muti-Eternity

Multi-Eternity. If antimonitor had enough strength to take out Multi-Eternity he would have never lost the Infinity Crisis.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Multi-Eternity. If antimonitor had enough strength to take out Multi-Eternity he would have never lost the Infinity Crisis.
Multi eternity = more then 1 eternities=a more then 1 universe= Antimonitor was eating universes for breakfast he only lost cause the spectre weakened him spectre=Lt>>>Eternity

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Multi eternity = more then 1 eternities=a more then 1 universe= Antimonitor was eating universes for breakfast he only lost cause the spectre weakened him spectre=Lt>>>Eternity

A single universe is insignificant to Multi Eternity. Multi Eternity represents the entire force of a multiverse.

Only a multiversal threat that is capable of dominating the entire multiverse at once would even gather multi Eternity's attention. Only power levels such as the Infinity Gauntlet or THoTU are enough to garner the attention of multi-eternity.

Originally posted by Kutulu
A single universe is insignificant to Multi Eternity. Multi Eternity represents the entire force of a multiverse.

Only a multiversal threat that is capable of dominating the entire multiverse at once would even gather multi Eternity's attention. Only power levels such as the Infinity Gauntlet or THoTU are enough to garner the attention of multi-eternity.
The Antimonitor was a multiversal threat

Originally posted by Kutulu
A single universe is insignificant to Multi Eternity. Multi Eternity represents the entire force of a multiverse.

Only a multiversal threat that is capable of dominating the entire multiverse at once would even gather multi Eternity's attention. Only power levels such as the Infinity Gauntlet or THoTU are enough to garner the attention of multi-eternity.

I agree.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
The Antimonitor was a multiversal threat

Originally posted by Kutulu
A single universe is insignificant to Multi Eternity. Multi Eternity represents the entire force of a multiverse.

Only a multiversal threat that is capable of dominating the entire multiverse at once would even gather multi Eternity's attention. Only power levels such as the Infinity Gauntlet or THoTU are enough to garner the attention of multi-eternity. How would you compare Multi-Eternity to the Wrath of God?
That's what it took so that it Anti-Monitor didn't wipe the entire multiverse, in fact, he destroyed the Multiverse to where there were only 5 Earths left at all, and his battle with The Wrath destroyed those as well, but a new one was created in the wake. The DCU.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
The Antimonitor was a multiversal threat

That's true, but Anti-Monitor did Not absorb the Multi-verse.


He absorb most of that FINITE Multi-verse that used to exist in DC.

And yet he didn't do it all at once, Chain Reaction effect (Universe to Universe)

I say FINITE because he left less than 10 Universes right?


Multi-Eternity (the Multi-Verse) is INFINITE and every Universe inside of him is INFINITE too

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7421/multieternity16do.th.jpg


AM Loses Big.

And every universe that the AM destroyed was not Infinite? He absorbed infinite Infinie universes. The only reason he was stopped was becuz of the spectre. So No, If there was no Spectre, he wouldn't have lost, meaning he could beat the pants off of multi-eternity.

Originally posted by Juntai
How would you compare Multi-Eternity to the Wrath of God?
That's what it took so that it Anti-Monitor didn't wipe the entire multiverse, in fact, he destroyed the Multiverse to where there were only 5 Earths left at all, and his battle with The Wrath destroyed those as well, but a new one was created in the wake. The DCU.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And every universe that the AM destroyed was not Infinite? He absorbed infinite Infinie universes. The only reason he was stopped was becuz of the spectre. So No, If there was no Spectre, he wouldn't have lost, meaning he could beat the pants off of multi-eternity.

Multi-Eternity=The power of EVERY Universe which makes up the Multiverse

AM=The power of ALMOST every Universe which makes up the Multiverse

Eternity wins easily

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And every universe that the AM destroyed was not Infinite? He absorbed infinite Infinie universes. The only reason he was stopped was becuz of the spectre. So No, If there was no Spectre, he wouldn't have lost, meaning he could beat the pants off of multi-eternity. Not sure about that. I know that he took universes but he never really battled the personification of any of the universes. Unlike the universes, Eternity was sentient. Hes facing the personification of the Multiverse that can attack.

Originally posted by Juntai
How would you compare Multi-Eternity to the Wrath of God?

Multi would lose to the Wrath.


Originally posted by Juntai
That's what it took so that it Anti-Monitor didn't wipe the entire multiverse,

That was my point with the other fella,

Before he absorbed these Universes, he was not as powerful right?

A Universal destroyer I'm sure, but he Never prooved to be a being that could erase the Multi-verse instantaneously.


Originally posted by Juntai
in fact, he destroyed the Multiverse to where there were only 5 Earths left at all,

If he can't do it in one sweeping shot, like the Wrath, like the UN, then IMO he loses.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And every universe that the AM destroyed was not Infinite? He absorbed infinite Infinie universes.

The Universes might of been Infinite, but not the Multi-verse.

Otherwise it wouldn't have had a number.

He dwindled them down to 5.


Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The only reason he was stopped was becuz of the spectre. So No, If there was no Spectre, he wouldn't have lost, meaning he could beat the pants off of multi-eternity.

yea,

After he absorbed nearly the entire Multi-verse.

But like I said, it wouldn't have taken him so many issues to bring the number of Universes down to 5, had he been a true Multiversal destroyer.

What he did is comparable to our Mkraan Crystal.

it will be take out the Multi-verse in due time if left unchecked BUT, One Universe at a time, domino effect.


The UN Erases ALL the Universes in the Multi-verse instantaneously.
(That's what I mean)

Originally posted by Mr Master
That's true, but Anti-Monitor did Not absorb the Multi-verse.


He absorb most of that FINITE Multi-verse that used to exist in DC.

And yet he didn't do it all at once, Chain Reaction effect (Universe to Universe)

I say FINITE because he left less than 10 Universes right?


Multi-Eternity (the Multi-Verse) is INFINITE and every Universe inside of him is INFINITE too

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7421/multieternity16do.th.jpg

AM Loses Big. "In The Beginning there were many. A multiversal infinitude.." - Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Originally posted by Juntai
"In The Beginning there were many. A multiversal infinitude.." - Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Cool.

Did he do it all at once or like a chain reaction?

Originally posted by Mr Master
The Universes might of been Infinite, but not the Multi-verse.

Otherwise it wouldn't have had a number.

He dwindled them down to 5.




yea,

After he absorbed nearly the entire Multi-verse.

But like I said, it wouldn't have taken him so many issues to bring the number of Universes down to 5, had he been a true Multiversal destroyer.

What he did is comparable to our Mkraan Crystal.

it will be take out the Multi-verse in due time if left unchecked BUT, One Universe at a time, domino effect.


The UN Erases ALL the Universes in the Multi-verse instantaneously.
(That's what I mean)

It was called crisis on infinite Earths. It wasn't Finite. they used the all but 5 thing just for story effect or else there wouldnt' have been anything to write about. It was called crisis on INFINITE Earths. Had he not been stopped, he would have the power of Infinite, Infinite Universes. Or shoud they have called it crisis on Finite earths? come on give me a break. Your taking Story thematics and drama to down play that it was infinite universes, thus the name INFINITE earths. Am would win this if he were unhampered by the Spectre.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Cool.

Did he do it all at once or like a chain reaction?

There was no chain reaction, he absorbed more and more, and the more he absorbed, the more powerful he become to destroy more. IOf left unchecked, he would have been as powerful as the Multi eternity with one advantage, he coudl absorb multi eternity.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
There was no chain reaction, he absorbed more and more, and the more he absorbed, the more powerful he become to destroy more. IOf left unchecked, he would have been as powerful as the Multi eternity with one advantage, he coudl absorb multi eternity. Question: Did any of the Universes AM absorb fight back? because in this battle AM will have the entire multiverse fighting him.....

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It was called crisis on INFINITE Earths.

They should of never added that "dramatic effect" cause now I see it as a FINITE Multi-verse by definition.


In any case I'll give yall the benefit of the doubt.

Now, did he absorb these Universes simultaneously or in a Chain Reaction?


This will quickly decide who wins.

Unlike DC's Universes, every single one of ours will fight back.

Originally posted by Galan777
Question: Did any of the Universes AM absorb fight back? because in this battle AM will have the entire multiverse fighting him.....

It doesn't matter if they fight back or not. IF he has the power of all those universes, he would be just as powerful as Multi Eternity. With no Spectre or LT to check him, he would be the equal of Multi Eternity, with the distinct advantage of Being able to Absborb Multi Eternity. Even if he does absorbs just one part of ME and starts a "chain reaction" as the battle progressed, ME would get weaker and weaker. But this is all Theory since Both characters are only trumped by The Spectre/LT.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
There was no chain reaction, he absorbed more and more, and the more he absorbed,

That is a Chain Reaction.


AM loses.


This is instantaneous


Reed uses the Ultimate Nullifier to banish Abraxas & remake the Multiverse
http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/6069/1unisusedbyreedtodestroyabraxa.th.jpg

UN destroys the Multiverse
http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/932/2undestroysmultieternityinfini.th.jpg

UN remakes the Multiverse in an instant
http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/893/3unremakesthemultiverse9jq.th.jpg


See 3 Panels....Not 12 issues

Originally posted by Galan777
Question: Did any of the Universes AM absorb fight back? because in this battle AM will have the entire multiverse fighting him..... The universe itself did not fight at all.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
The universe itself did not fight at all. Thats what i thought, and IMO thats why M-E wins...

Originally posted by Mr Master
That is a Chain Reaction.


AM loses.


This is instantaneous


Reed uses the Ultimate Nullifier to banish Abraxas & remake the Multiverse
http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/6069/1unisusedbyreedtodestroyabraxa.th.jpg

UN destroys the Multiverse
http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/932/2undestroysmultieternityinfini.th.jpg

UN remakes the Multiverse in an instant
http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/893/3unremakesthemultiverse9jq.th.jpg


See 3 Panels....Not 12 issues

This has nothing to do what anything. Your going from the stand point of AM at the beginning of his power. Im going from the stand point of him at the height of his power if left unchecked by the spectre. You see the difference. at the point your talking about where he was absorbing them slowly, then yes, ME wins. That is not forum rules.

As far as the 3 panels thing goes, Sales are more important that a 3 panel incident that didn't really change marvel comics. So i'm not even going to touch why drama and thematics can't be used against a character.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It doesn't matter if they fight back or not. IF he has the power of all those universes, he would be just as powerful as Multi Eternity.

Is this AM vs Multi-Eternity?


Or AM after Absorbing most of the DC Multi-verse vs Multi-Eternity?



Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
With no Spectre or LT to check him, he would be the equal of Multi Eternity,

Not if it's AM before Absorbing a Multi-verse.


The thread starter said AM....NOT AM after Absorbing....


Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Even if he does absorbs just one part of ME and starts a "chain reaction" as the battle progressed, ME would get weaker and weaker.

No way dude,

The moment ONE Universe is absorbed,

ME erases AM.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Is this AM vs Multi-Eternity?


Or AM after Absorbing most of the DC Multi-verse vs Multi-Eternity?





Not if it's AM before Absorbing a Multi-verse.


The thread starter said AM....NOT AM after Absorbing....




No way dude,

The moment ONE Universe is absorbed,

ME erases AM.

you sure about that? even the spectre coudln't do that and Spectre>>>>>>ME

As for which AM it is, if the thread starter does not state which starting point AM is in, then the forum rules say the most powerful and best incarnation of the charcter has to be used.

The fact remains that AM DOESN'T have the power of an ENTIRE multiverse, just nearly. Multi Eternity DOES. If DC's version of Multi Eternity had been introduced during crisis, she probably would have been the one to confront AM instead of Spectre. AM could take any one version of Eternity, but Multi Eternity is on a whole different level.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
you sure about that? even the spectre coudln't do that and Spectre>>>>>>ME

As for which AM it is, if the thread starter does not state which starting point AM is in, then the forum rules say the most powerful and best incarnation of the charcter has to be used.

The Spectre had the power to beat the AM he just messed up and made a mistake.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Im going from the stand point of him at the height of his power if left unchecked by the spectre. You see the difference. at the point your talking about where he was absorbing them slowly, then yes, ME wins. That is not forum rules.

What rules?

It's not the height of a character's power we can take into consideration but a character at Full Power.

AM at Full power, does Not come with Universes absorbed.
(Unless the thread starter would have specified that)

Just like Thanos at Full power does not come with the IG

Thanos at Full power is whatever Thanos is at Full power, without an IG.



Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
As far as the 3 panels thing goes,

I'm just showing you the difference between Chain Reaction and Instantaneous.

Originally posted by darthgoober
The fact remains that AM DOESN'T have the power of an ENTIRE multiverse, just nearly. Multi Eternity DOES. If DC's version of Multi Eternity had been introduced during crisis, she probably would have been the one to confront AM instead of Spectre. AM could take any one version of Eternity, but Multi Eternity is on a whole different level.

Barring the Spectre's interference, AM would be as powerful as ME. You guys use Thanos with the HOTU and IG all the time. We never talk about thano's way of making himself loose all the time. So for this battle we can't talk about the spectre stopping the AM. for all intents and purposes, the AM had the power to wipe out ALL of the DCU's multiple universes. Leaving the Spectre out of it, like we leave thano's complete moronic way of making himself lose, the AM had the power to kill the Multiverse. and had absorbed most of it's power.

Originally posted by Mr Master
What rules?

It's not the height of a character's power we can take into consideration but a character at Full Power.

AM at Full power, does Not come with Universes absorbed.
(Unless the thread starter would have specified that)

Just like Thanos at Full power does not come with the IG

Thanos at Full power is whatever Thanos is at Full power, without an IG.





I'm just showing you the difference between Chain Reaction and Instantaneous.

You have to take into consideration he had to meamn AM at the height of his power or this thread would be lopsided and a curbstomp.

This one is easy. Multi-Eternity totally erases AM.

There is almost no use to argue with nvrbeenwthagirl since DC > Marvel, always.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
you sure about that? even the spectre coudln't do that and Spectre>>>>>>ME

Again,

AFTER he ABSORBED most of the Multi-verse


Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
As for which AM it is, if the thread starter does not state which starting point AM is in, then the forum rules say the most powerful and best incarnation of the charcter has to be used.

Interesting.


So everytime there is a thread with Thanos's name on it, if nothing is specified by the thread starter, we have to assume it's IG or HOTU Thanos (most powerful and best incarnation)?

Everytime I see Spiderman in a vs thread it must Captain Universe Spiderman?

These are the forum rules you say.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Cool.

Did he do it all at once or like a chain reaction? It was a chain, most dying only as long as it took for the power to wipe across them..... but there was reason for that. It was The Monitor battling him, each seemed to be some sort of representation of their respective realities, Monitor kind of a guardian/representor of the multiverse, and Anti-Monitor being it's perversed opposite for Antimatter.--This is not to be confused with Embodiments, as per Kismet and Eternity.. but their power seemed based on who controlled more of creation.

Once they came into being they battled eachother for a million years on equal footing before they knocked eachother out....Pariah a scientist, probably the greatest in the multiverse, accidentally unleashed anti-matter into his own universe and destroyed it... The Anti-Monitor awoke, and at that moment power also tipped in Anti-Monitor's favor, and Monitor could only slow him, but never stop him. So he began putting everything into motion that would eventually be needed to defeat him.

The only reason he could not destroy the last 5, is because Anti-Monitor at the lowest dregs of his power, built an infinite netherverse inside of himself and pulled what was left of the multiverse into it - which was transfered to The Harbringer upon Monitor's death, as she essentially became him.

Had he not done that, and Spectre not stopped him, Anti-Monitor would have taken the multiverse with ease.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Again,

AFTER he ABSORBED most of the Multi-verse




Interesting.


So everytime there is a thread with Thanos's name on it, if nothing is specified by the thread starter, we have to assume it's IG or HOTU Thanos (most powerful and best incarnation)?

Everytime I see Spiderman in a vs thread it must Captain Universe Spiderman?

These are the forum rules you say. What about God Wolverine?

Originally posted by breeze85
This one is easy. Multi-Eternity totally erases AM.

There is almost no use to argue with nvrbeenwthagirl since DC > Marvel, always.


I hate when people say that bullshit about me. Do you see me in here saying AM wins and that's it? no you see me presenting a logical argument. freak you man. I dont' always vote for DC. chew on glass.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You have to take into consideration he had to meamn AM at the height of his power or this thread would be lopsided and a curbstomp.

Ahh, but those are the precise forum rules.

You wanna go by the book, telling me about rules, there they are.

Since the thread starter did not specify any more, we must not assume and Know, this is AM at Full power before absorbing Universes.

And even if he had, he still falls short to ME.

AM needed atleast 5 Universes to complete a Multi-verse, he never made it.

ME is, a Multi-verse already.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Again,

AFTER he ABSORBED most of the Multi-verse




Interesting.


So everytime there is a thread with Thanos's name on it, if nothing is specified by the thread starter, we have to assume it's IG or HOTU Thanos (most powerful and best incarnation)?

Everytime I see Spiderman in a vs thread it must Captain Universe Spiderman?

These are the forum rules you say. The very idea that they are using Anti-Monitor, I'm assuming they mean as we saw him in the Crisis comic, which is after most of the multiverse was gone. We never saw him before that.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Barring the Spectre's interference, AM would be as powerful as ME. You guys use Thanos with the HOTU and IG all the time. We never talk about thano's way of making himself loose all the time. So for this battle we can't talk about the spectre stopping the AM. for all intents and purposes, the AM had the power to wipe out ALL of the DCU's multiple universes. Leaving the Spectre out of it, like we leave thano's complete moronic way of making himself lose, the AM had the power to kill the Multiverse. and had absorbed most of it's power.
Yes but the Spectre DID stop him. So he never reached the power level of an ENTIRE multiverse, only nearly. If we we're debating a battle with Magus towards the end of the Infinity Gauntlet, we wouldn't give him the power of the realty gem, just because he was tricked out of getting it, we would still consider him to have a NEARLY complete IG. The same thing goes here. AM at the hight of his power had NEARLY the power of an entire multi verse, Multi Eternity HAS the power of an entire multiverse, and is therefor MORE powerful. And since this is a forum battle not a comic book, he's not going to get a chance to go along absorbing universes to increase his power, because M.E. is going to start fighting right out of the gate. By the same token, if you put AM against DC's equivalent of M.E., she would be able to beat him in a strait up fight(if she actually she actually TRIED to fight back).

And I may be wrong, but didn't AM have to utilize tech to absorb universes(I only have one issue of Crisis, so I may be wrong).

Originally posted by Mr Master
Again,

AFTER he ABSORBED most of the Multi-verse




Interesting.


So everytime there is a thread with Thanos's name on it, if nothing is specified by the thread starter, we have to assume it's IG or HOTU Thanos (most powerful and best incarnation)?

Everytime I see Spiderman in a vs thread it must Captain Universe Spiderman?

These are the forum rules you say.

your trying to be cute but ur not. The Am's power to absorb universes WAS his character. Captain Universe Spiderman is not. That is an outside powersource that he doesn't always have access to. Niether does thanos have access to the IG. Thor has access to the god force at all times even tho it's an outside powersource. so it CAN be used in any battle on these forums.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes but the Spectre DID stop him. So he never reached the power level of an ENTIRE multiverse, only nearly. If we we're debating a battle with Magus towards the end of the Infinity Gauntlet, we wouldn't give him the power of the realty gem, just because he was tricked out of getting it, we would still consider him to have a NEARLY complete IG. The same thing goes here. AM at the hight of his power had NEARLY the power of an entire multi verse, Multi Eternity HAS the power of an entire multiverse, and is therefor MORE powerful. And since this is a forum battle not a comic book, he's not going to get a chance to go along absorbing universes to increase his power, because M.E. is going to start fighting right out of the gate. By the same token, if you put AM against DC's equivalent of M.E., she would be able to beat him in a strait up fight(if she actually she actually TRIED to fight back).

And I may be wrong, but didn't AM have to utilize tech to absorb universes(I only have one issue of Crisis, so I may be wrong).

So from now on, every single battle you guys have thanos wearing the ig in, i'm going to use the fact that he had the parculiar weakness of his that makes him loose. You get what I'm getting at?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Ahh, but those are the precise forum rules.

You wanna go by the book, telling me about rules, there they are.

Since the thread starter did not specify any more, we must not assume and Know, this is AM at Full power before absorbing Universes.

And even if he had, he still falls short to ME.

AM needed atleast 5 Universes to complete a Multi-verse, he never made it.

ME is, a Multi-verse already. I already explained the stipulations of why he didn't get the last 5, but you probably posted this at the same time. I'll just wait for your reply to it. I like keeping Mr Master updated.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
So from now on, every single battle you guys have thanos wearing the ig in, i'm going to use the fact that he had the parculiar weakness of his that makes him loose. You get what I'm getting at?
Actually, you would have to use the argument that AFTER he beats everyone, he comes up with a way to lose. You have to remember, that he wins first, THEN he comes up with a way to lose. So unless it's at least a two part fight, he still wins.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Actually, you would have to use the argument that AFTER he beats everyone, he comes up with a way to lose. You have to remember, that he wins first, THEN he comes up with a way to lose. So unless it's at least a two part fight, he still wins.

If the outcome is total victory, he looses. And he certainly was tricked by a couple people and lost the IG. But I never use that becuz it's PIS. But what ever you say. Thanos with the IG is still a tard who can't seem to manage to hold onto god hood. AM wins this IF this is the AM at the height of his power unchecked by spectre.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Actually, you would have to use the argument that AFTER he beats everyone, he comes up with a way to lose. You have to remember, that he wins first, THEN he comes up with a way to lose. So unless it's at least a two part fight, he still wins.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
If the outcome is total victory, he looses. And he certainly was tricked by a couple people and lost the IG. But I never use that becuz it's PIS. But what ever you say. Thanos with the IG is still a tard who can't seem to manage to hold onto god hood. AM wins this IF this is the AM at the height of his power unchecked by spectre.

This is a dumb arguement, Thanos has nothing to do with this thread, please don't continue it. We were having a great discussion without the pissing contest.

Anti-Monitor in the thread, should be as portrayed in the comic. A multiversal capable wiper. This is how he was portrayed altogether.

Thanos is not, unless we specifically use an comic-arc version such as IG or HOTU. Which people DO use in threads, otherwise- it is regular Thanos.

The end.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
your trying to be cute but ur not. The Am's power to absorb universes WAS his character. Captain Universe Spiderman is not. That is an outside powersource that he doesn't always have access to. Niether does thanos have access to the IG. Thor has access to the god force at all times even tho it's an outside powersource. so it CAN be used in any battle on these forums.

You still have not acknolwedge the main point that was made, and that is at the height of his power, Anti-monitor still fell short of a complete multiverse. Multi-Eternity IS a multi-verse in power. During the battle anti-monitor won't have a chance to go around snacking on universes to power himself up further, and is going toe to toe with the embodiment of a complete multiverse right from the get-go.

Now ladies and gent correct me if i am wrong but isnt the Anti monitors speciality eating universes, so what wise guy pits him against a sentient being full of universes . On that logic AM eats ME, think of it like this superman Vs Redsonman.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
If the outcome is total victory, he looses. And he certainly was tricked by a couple people and lost the IG. But I never use that becuz it's PIS. But what ever you say. Thanos with the IG is still a tard who can't seem to manage to hold onto god hood. AM wins this IF this is the AM at the height of his power unchecked by spectre.
If that were the fight, it would have to be specified "AM that was never stopped vs Multi Eternity", but that's not the fight in this thread. You are trying to give AM a theoretical level of power that he was never able to achieve. But he doesn't HAVE that level of power in this thread, at most he has as much power as he possessed at the hight of his power.

If that's the fight you want to debate, then you'll have to go and make another of your spite threads to do it.

Originally posted by Juntai
It was a chain, most dying only as long as it took for the power to wipe across them..... but there was reason for that. It was The Monitor battling him, each seemed to be some sort of representation of their respective realities, Monitor kind of a guardian/representor of the multiverse, and Anti-Monitor being it's perversed opposite for Antimatter.--This is not to be confused with Embodiments, as per Kismet and Eternity.. but their power seemed based on who controlled more of creation.

Once they came into being they battled eachother for a million years on equal footing before they knocked eachother out....Pariah a scientist, probably the greatest in the multiverse, accidentally unleashed anti-matter into his own universe and destroyed it... The Anti-Monitor awoke, and at that moment power also tipped in Anti-Monitor's favor, and Monitor could only slow him, but never stop him. So he began putting everything into motion that would eventually be needed to defeat him.

The only reason he could not destroy the last 5, is because Anti-Monitor at the lowest dregs of his power, built an infinite netherverse inside of himself and pulled what was left of the multiverse into it - which was transfered to The Harbringer upon Monitor's death, as she essentially became him.

Had he not done that, and Spectre not stopped him, Anti-Monitor would have taken the multiverse with ease.

Thanx for the info.

It seems he would have the same bumps on the Marvel road.

There would be an Eternity in every Universe ready to stop him, better yet, an Infinite number of Eternitys roled up into one.

From what you just explained, I don't think he can do it, there are so many characters with in Multi-Eternity that can rearrange Universes, even the Multi-verse itself.

If he's fighting ME, he's taking on the 616 Multi-verse and everything that comes with it.


Jim Jaspers of 616 nearly Re-wrote the Omni-verse.

Wanda's magic is so powerful she ripped a whole through the Omniversal Fabric of Reality, nearly collapsing the Omni-verse.

Galactus and the UN (IF Reed can Remake the Multi-verse)

Originally posted by Juntai
Thanos.

The end.
I know that wasn't your intent but your statement kinda contradicts.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes but the Spectre DID stop him. So he never reached the power level of an ENTIRE multiverse, only nearly. If we we're debating a battle with Magus towards the end of the Infinity Gauntlet, we wouldn't give him the power of the realty gem, just because he was tricked out of getting it, we would still consider him to have a NEARLY complete IG. The same thing goes here. AM at the hight of his power had NEARLY the power of an entire multi verse, Multi Eternity HAS the power of an entire multiverse, and is therefor MORE powerful. And since this is a forum battle not a comic book, he's not going to get a chance to go along absorbing universes to increase his power, because M.E. is going to start fighting right out of the gate.

Very very well put.

Originally posted by Juntai
This is a dumb arguement, Thanos has nothing to do with this thread, please don't continue it. We were having a great discussion without the pissing contest.

Anti-Monitor in the thread, should be as portrayed in the comic. A multiversal capable wiper. This is how he was portrayed altogether.

Thanos is not, unless we specifically use an comic-arc version such as IG or HOTU. Which people DO use in threads, otherwise- it is regular Thanos.

The end.
Hey he's the one who broght up Thanos trying justify giving AM more power than he actually had, I was just pointing out how that wouldn't work.

Originally posted by Kutulu
You still have not acknolwedge the main point that was made, and that is at the height of his power, Anti-monitor still fell short of a complete multiverse. Multi-Eternity IS a multi-verse in power. During the battle anti-monitor won't have a chance to go around snacking on universes to power himself up further, and is going toe to toe with the embodiment of a complete multiverse right from the get-go. I already explained the stipulations of that. Monitor MOVED the rest of the multiverse so that it wouldn't be wiped- into an infinite Netherverse inside of himself. Anti-Monitor then almost still succeeded and tried to replace the creator altogether, by wiping the multiverse from the dawn of time, and had the power to do it, if not for the Wrath of God, who at the height of his power, is far beyond creation alltogether..

Originally posted by Mr Master
Very very well put.
Thank you.

Originally posted by Juntai
The very idea that they are using Anti-Monitor, I'm assuming they mean as we saw him in the Crisis comic, which is after most of the multiverse was gone. We never saw him before that.

I didn't know that, from the first issue he had already absorbed the Multi-verse minus 5?

What the heck were the other 11 issues about?

To put it as simply as put, The AM had the power and capability of wiping out the multiverse. He wasn't shown as NOT having the power to do so. he did. He got stopped by the spectre. So it's not theoretical power i'm talking about. He did have the power to wipe the multiverse clean.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Hey he's the one who broght up Thanos trying justify giving AM more power than he actually had, I was just pointing out how that wouldn't work. That's why I quoted both of you when I made the comment, I'm not pointing fingers, I was trying to end it. Let it go.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Actually, you would have to use the argument that AFTER he beats everyone, he comes up with a way to lose. You have to remember, that he wins first, THEN he comes up with a way to lose. So unless it's at least a two part fight, he still wins.

Your Hot today.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I didn't know that, from the first issue he had already absorbed the Multi-verse minus 5?

What the heck were the other 11 issues about? Minus about 10 or so, we see a few get wiped in the first couple issues.

Most of which shows Pariah, who is cursed to live through the death of realities, which he believes is for releasing Anti-Monitor... appearing on different Earths and warning them death was coming, then appearing on another.

Then in the meantime, Monitor is pulling people outside of time and setting up all the failsafes that he believes will lead to the defeat of the Anti-monitor...

Cuts in the issues also have to deal with the multiverse, or what's left of it, once inside the netherverse, time collapsed on itself, and all times existed as one. So there were dinosaurs walking around in New York, stuff like that.

The comics were very loaded with all kinds of stuff.. Truly one of the biggest arcs ever.

Heres a question what if the anti monitor eats away at some of ME universes that then makes ME incomplete and the AM proceeds to eat away or simply wipes out Multi incomplete eternity.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
To put it as simply as put, The AM had the power and capability of wiping out the multiverse. He wasn't shown as NOT having the power to do so. he did. He got stopped by the spectre. So it's not theoretical power i'm talking about. He did have the power to wipe the multiverse clean.
He showed the ability to do it ONE universe at a time, NOT all at once, otherwise he wouldn't have lost. ME isn't going to stand there and let AM take him out one piece at a time. And you never answered my question, didn't AM use tech to absorb those universes?

Originally posted by darthgoober
If that's the fight you want to debate, then you'll have to go and make another of your spite threads to do it.

Originally posted by Big Sexy

I know that wasn't your intent but your statement kinda contradicts.


Nice catch.

Originally posted by darthgoober
He showed the ability to do it ONE universe at a time, NOT all at once, otherwise he wouldn't have lost. ME isn't going to stand there and let AM take him out one piece at a time. And you never answered my question, didn't AM use tech to absorb those universes?

He didn't erase one universe at a time? how the heck would he be able to absorb all those universes one at a time? it would take eternity. Itwas some kind of collapse effect or soemthing. I don't know how it worked. And I think at first he used tech, but he reached a point where he was taking the power of each universe into himself until he didn't need it any more. the tech has nothing to do with the lvl of power he achieved. many characters use tech to advance themselves but dont rely on it after they get the power.

Originally posted by darthgoober


If that's the fight you want to debate, then you'll have to go and make another of your spite threads to do it.

NAME THEM!

Originally posted by Mr Master
Your Hot today. I hope you're learning stuff and I'm not posting all of this for nothing. I seem to think you absorb comic knowledge, like myself.

Originally posted by darthgoober
He showed the ability to do it ONE universe at a time, NOT all at once, otherwise he wouldn't have lost. ME isn't going to stand there and let AM take him out one piece at a time. And you never answered my question, didn't AM use tech to absorb those universes?

It doesn't work that way if ME is fighting we can say he/ she has taken on a conscious form and Infinite crisis AM was no pushover so i am sure he could hold his own while fighting ME still he had enough universes to end it.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
NAME THEM! Your getting desperate

Originally posted by Galan777
Your getting desperate

NO i'm getting smart. I'm not going to let some jerk just say shit about me without backing it up.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
He didn't erase one universe at a time? how the heck would he be able to absorb all those universes one at a time? it would take eternity. Itwas some kind of collapse effect or soemthing. I don't know how it worked. And I think at first he used tech, but he reached a point where he was taking the power of each universe into himself until he didn't need it any more. the tech has nothing to do with the lvl of power he achieved. many characters use tech to advance themselves but dont rely on it after they get the power.
I was just asking about the tech, like I said I only have 1 issue of crisis(the one where Supergirl takes it to him), so I wasn't sure.

But still, at the hight of his power, he still only had the power of a near multi verse, and since he never actually fought against DC's equivalent of Eternity, we have to judge by how much power they have at their disposal.

Near Multiverse<<<Multiverse

Multi Eternity wins.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
NO i'm getting smart. I'm not going to let some jerk just say shit about me without backing it up. your getting more desperate

Originally posted by Juntai
I hope you're learning stuff and I'm not posting all of this for nothing. I seem to think you absorb comic knowledge, like myself.


Believe me dude, as of late my DC info comes directly from you, sometimes I'm watching without posting.

On the other hand, that boy is hot today, man must be paid homage to when he's on fire.

Just like two days ago, when you did a phenomenal job in the Ion vs PF thread, you were burning that day.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
NAME THEM!
How about your Thanos vs Doomsday thread for one?

To be honest, I'll not even attempt to say who would win. In the end, the only shown greater than Anti-Monitor was Spectre, and I believe he could defeat most any character, so it's a tough benchmark.

Anti-Monitor certainly as we saw him, had the power to wipe the multiverse, but failsafes made it vastly more difficult, and Spectre made it impossible.

Then again, in the battle with Spectre, they destroyed all that ever was. Creation as a whole.

And in it's wake, the DCU was born instead of a multiverse.

A single universe, that embodied the entire multiverse, being why we have characters like SHAZAM, from Earth S, and Superman from Earth 1, and even the current Firestorm, from Earth 8.

Originally posted by Galan777
your getting more desperate

and your opinion is backed by what evidence? you have talked to me to know my frame of mind? You think I like people saying stuff about me with no proof of what they say? Oh I know, me and you are freinds in RL and you know i'm desperate, that's it right? No, If someone is going to say a blanket statement about me, they need to back it up or shut the **** up.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I was just asking about the tech, like I said I only have 1 issue of crisis(the one where Supergirl takes it to him), so I wasn't sure.

But still, at the hight of his power, he still only had the power of a near multi verse, and since he never actually fought against DC's equivalent of Eternity, we have to judge by how much power they have at their disposal.

Near Multiverse<<<Multiverse

Multi Eternity wins.

Originally posted by Supreme being
It doesn't work that way if ME is fighting we can say he/ she has taken on a conscious form and Infinite crisis AM was no pushover so i am sure he could hold his own while fighting ME still he had enough universes to end it.

Originally posted by darthgoober
How about your Thanos vs Doomsday thread for one?
That still wasn't a spite thread. someone came up with a way for thanos to win and I bought it. try again.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
and your opinion is backed by what evidence? you have talked to me to know my frame of mind? You think I like people saying stuff about me with no proof of what they say? Oh I know, me and you are freinds in RL and you know i'm desperate, that's it right? No, If someone is going to say a blanket statement about me, they need to back it up or shut the **** up. getting more desperate, man your a rude little snob when people have you backed into a corner

Originally posted by darthgoober
I was just asking about the tech, like I said I only have 1 issue of crisis(the one where Supergirl takes it to him), so I wasn't sure.

But still, at the hight of his power, he still only had the power of a near multi verse, and since he never actually fought against DC's equivalent of Eternity, we have to judge by how much power they have at their disposal.

Near Multiverse<<<Multiverse

Multi Eternity wins. But his loss came at the hands of the Wrath of God, otherwise he had won already.

Wrath of God >>> Multiverse.

Originally posted by Galan777
getting more desperate, man your a rude little snob when people have you backed into a corner

No one has me backed into a corner. An insult with no backing is not backing me into a corner.

Originally posted by Galan777
your getting more desperate

I didn't know you were the commentator on when people are getting owned or desperate.

Wrath of God> Multiverse>Near Multiverse > Wrath of God


ABC logic is fun

Originally posted by Juntai
But his loss came at the hands of the Wrath of God, otherwise he had won already.

Wrath of God >>> Multiverse.
Hey, I'll be the first to admit that Spectre beats ME. I have no problem with that. But if DC Eternity had actually materialized and fought back, he may not have had to.

Originally posted by Juntai
The comics were very loaded with all kinds of stuff.. Truly one of the biggest arcs ever.

I'm going to start diving my brain into this series, it's about time.


I have to agree with darth on this one though.

Regardless of the reasons, if his greatest gain of power was nearly a Multi-verse, he must lose, since Multi is an entire Multi-verse that comes with characters that can Re-write the Omni-verse and collapse it.

Originally posted by Supreme being
I didn't know you were the commentator on when people are getting owned or desperate. arent you that snotty guy that likes to make fun of people? you have no room to talk


SOCK

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
That still wasn't a spite thread. someone came up with a way for thanos to win and I bought it. try again.
Really...

(runs to bump thread)

Originally posted by Galan777
arent you that snotty guy that likes to make fun of people? you have no room to talk


SOCK

I have plenty of room to talk since i am actually debating and not winding up another poster by saying "your desperate" silly knob.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I'm going to start diving my brain into this series, it's about time.


I have to agree with darth on this one though.

Regardless of the reasons, if his greatest gain of power was nearly a Multi-verse, he must lose, since Multi is an entire Multi-verse that comes with characters that can Re-write the Omni-verse and collapse it. And there's pretty much an analog of every character in Marvel in DC, and likewise the other way.



He had the power to destroy the multiverse, but what was left was moved inside of the infinite netherverse of his exact opposite - the Monitor- before the wave hit it.

And even then he still would have succeeded had he not been stopped by the Wrath of God, who is greater than either character here. His hand was literally in the air at the dawn of time bringing the power to destroy all of creation. When Spectre locks hands with him.

Anti-Monitor>Multiverse, but less than God.

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/4163/vsantimoniterfc5.jpg
One of the coolest moments ever.

Originally posted by Juntai
He had the power to destroy the multiverse, but what was left was moved inside of the infinite netherverse of his exact opposite - the Monitor- before the wave hit it.

And even then he still would have succeeded had he not been stopped by the Wrath of God, who is greater than either character here. His hand was literally in the air at the dawn of time bringing the power to destroy all of creation. When Spectre locks hands with him.

Anti-Monitor>Multiverse, but less than God.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, he never actually did it, but it seems he definitely could of.

Now what about the other characters I mentioned that reside inside Multi-Eternity

Jaspers, who can re-write the Omni-verse (all the Marvel Multi-verses)

Wanda was collapsing the Omni-verse

UN Galactus, I'm sure can affect more than one Multi-verse (I'm speculating, based on Reed's feat with the UN.

Roma's Celestial Nullifier can also blink Universes away instantly.

Originally posted by Juntai
http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/4163/vsantimoniterfc5.jpg
One of the coolest moments ever.

Very Nice.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I hate when people say that bullshit about me. Do you see me in here saying AM wins and that's it? no you see me presenting a logical argument. freak you man. I dont' always vote for DC. chew on glass.

You most often do. Believe me, I'm certainly not the only one who has noticed it. Your arguments are rarely logical unlike the likes of Mr Master. Always backed up with evidence and only on rare occasions further debates would actually be needed.

Originally posted by Juntai
http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/4163/vsantimoniterfc5.jpg
One of the coolest moments ever. You have to love what happens after that:

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/8059/vsantimoniter2gt1.jpg
http://img289.imageshack.us/img289/4948/vsantimoniter3gx0.jpg

A lot of you people are looking at this like AM just has a bunch of universes laid out before him to snack on.

That's not what this is about - multi-eternity is the ASPECT of all the universes (Eternity's) combined, not the universes themselves. In other words he represents the sum total of every universe and every being within those universes inside of every marvel universe ever. Imagine every top tier universe conquering hero and villain throughout marvel and add them all together, and multiply times an infinite amount, that's the power that multi-Eternity would have.

Note that I said Marvel Universe, not DC universe.

Let me restate that: the embodiment of all the universes, not the universes themselves!

Originally posted by Juntai
http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/4163/vsantimoniterfc5.jpg
One of the coolest moments ever.

Originally posted by Juntai
But his loss came at the hands of the Wrath of God, otherwise he had won already.

Wrath of God >>> Multiverse.
Spectre is only the "wrath of God" when Presence/Yawhew is his host.
And the wrath varies.
But Presence full wrath as Specre's host wasent enough to take out the Beast.
Showed him the true heaven.

Presence = GEB >> 100% Spectre
Just like:
TOAA = Thanos w/ Heart >> Living Tribunal

So Spectre at max would equal the Living Tribunal.
The Tribunal is of course beyond the Multiverse and Multi-Eternity himself.
LT >> IG > I-IG >> UN >> Multi-verse = Multi-Eternity

As for the AM, Supergirl also killed the guy, Multi-Eternity will do a lot more.

Whatever was going on a page ago, I hope it's been settled, cause I'd rather not have to throw out warnings today.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
As for the AM, Supergirl also killed the guy, Multi-Eternity will do a lot more.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/94/Antimonitor.png

Originally posted by breeze85
You most often do. Believe me, I'm certainly not the only one who has noticed it. Your arguments are rarely logical unlike the likes of Mr Master. Always backed up with evidence and only on rare occasions further debates would actually be needed.

please dont' bring him up in this. His arguments are twisted to give him the win even when on panel evidence says other wise.and any time anyone has the balls to challenge him, he calls them my child and acts very condescendingly to them. Give me a break.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, he never actually did it, but it seems he definitely could of.

Now what about the other characters I mentioned that reside inside Multi-Eternity

Jaspers, who can re-write the Omni-verse (all the Marvel Multi-verses)

Wanda was collapsing the Omni-verse

UN Galactus, I'm sure can affect more than one Multi-verse (I'm speculating, based on Reed's feat with the UN.

Roma's Celestial Nullifier can also blink Universes away instantly. I showed the scan, so you don't need benefit of the doubt, he describes being about to destroy all reality when he's halted by Spectre.

I'm not even bothering with who will win this fight let alone those- I've just been correcting and describing for people

Can Marvel Comics defeat the Anti-Monitor? Yes, but it would take pretty much everything they had just the same. The companies are pretty much mirror images of eachother as far as I've seen.

Originally posted by Galan777
You have to love what happens after that:

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/8059/vsantimoniter2gt1.jpg
http://img289.imageshack.us/img289/4948/vsantimoniter3gx0.jpg ^

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Spectre is only the "wrath of God" when Presence/Yawhew is his host.
And the wrath varies.
But Presence full wrath as Specre's host wasent enough to take out the Beast.
Showed him the true heaven.

Presence = GEB >> 100% Spectre
Just like:
TOAA = Thanos w/ Heart >> Living Tribunal

So Spectre at max would equal the Living Tribunal.
The Tribunal is of course beyond the Multiverse and Multi-Eternity himself.
LT >> IG > I-IG >> UN >> Multi-verse = Multi-Eternity

As for the AM, Supergirl also killed the guy, Multi-Eternity will do a lot more. You're very confused.

Have you ever read Spectre? What do mean about Wrath of God, Yahweh as it's host?

Yahweh is a Vertigo comics.
The GEB is a Vertigo comic.
Spectre is a DC comic, it is the Wrath of God.

Originally posted by Juntai
You're very confused.

Have you ever read Spectre? What do mean about Wrath of God, Yahweh as it's host?

Yahweh is a Vertigo comics.
The GEB is a Vertigo comic.
Spectre is a DC comic, it is the Wrath of God.
Than who the heck was that guy with the green robe, pale skin and green eyes, that who Yewhew sent out to destroy the Great Evil Beast?

And later got defeated when GEB showed him the true heaven?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Than who the heck was that guy with the green robe, pale skin and green eyes, that who Yewhew sent out to destroy the Great Evil Beast?

And later got defeated when GEB showed him the true heaven?

Vertigo comics aren't "continuity", vertigo is more like a dream world of DC, or a sub reality.

As in it doesn't tie directly into Dc.

after reading all the points brought up i have to go with.....
Multi-Eternity

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
please dont' bring him up in this. His arguments are twisted to give him the win even when on panel evidence says other wise.and any time anyone has the balls to challenge him, he calls them my child and acts very condescendingly to them. Give me a break.
He don't adjust the picures for his statements.
He adjust his statements for his pictures.

That's whats make him(and not you) woth beliving

Originally posted by Jesse7
Vertigo comics aren't "continuity", vertigo is more like a dream world of DC, or a sub reality.

As in it doesn't tie directly into Dc.
So Yawhew is a sub God?

Vertigo continuity is confusing as hell. I read a CM book that mentions the silver city, the lilith, Lucifer, Michael, and Makizeen.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
please dont' bring him up in this. His arguments are twisted to give him the win even when on panel evidence says other wise.

See this is WHEN You, get called child, because little children make stuff up.

Beat yourself up TRYING to find where I "twisted" anything to find a win in a debate.


My child...

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
and any time anyone has the balls to challenge him, he calls them my child and acts very condescendingly to them.

Gibberish.

If I am challenged with proof and proven wrong, I back down.

Galan77 has shut me down in a Lucifer debate.

Juntai shut me down in a Parallax debate.

Mordum shut me down in a Mxy debate

even GS, shut me down once (it had nothing to do with Phoenix though )


You on the other hand have not, and if you would just attempt to do so, I wouldn't snap at you, but when you begin to post imaginary Information about Marvel Cosmics and I correct you but you continue, that's childish (hence, "my child"

Why doesn't everyone just put nvr on there ignore list?

Whenever people respond to him, it starts a huge debate, and it's not like it's a friendly on either.
I have him on it.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
So Yawhew is a sub God? Vertigo comics are canon for Vertigo, DC comics are canon for DC.

Vertigo doesn't even have a Hell anymore.. DC does.

Originally posted by Juntai
Vertigo comics are canon for Vertigo, DC comics are canon for DC.

Vertigo doesn't even have a Hell anymore.. DC does.

There's got to be a god over both DC and vertigo. Some of the character's seem to be able to cross universes.

Originally posted by Juntai
Vertigo comics are canon for Vertigo, DC comics are canon for DC.

Vertigo doesn't even have a Hell anymore.. DC does.
But the Beast calls Yawhew: Presence, when he shows Spectre true heaven.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
There's got to be a god over both DC and vertigo. Some of the character's seem to be able to cross universes. There only real connection is sandman and Swampthing.

Originally posted by Mr Master

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7421/multieternity16do.th.jpg


AM Loses Big.

what comic is that from? number etc..

Originally posted by Ethereal
what comic is that from? number etc.. FF 48 and 49. series 3

Since ME is a Multiverse(all in one), cant AM start absorbing it?

Originally posted by trolly_crouchjr
Since ME is a Multiverse(all in one), cant AM start absorbing it?

He is not the multiverse itself, but rather is the abstract personification of all energy within that multiverse. There is a clear distinction. If it was just a multiverse laid bear, then it would be cakewalk for anti-monitor to go eating universes, but that's not what multi-Eternity is about. Think of it as the multiverse's avatar.

Originally posted by Kutulu
He is not the multiverse itself, but rather is the abstract personification of all energy within that multiverse. There is a clear distinction. If it was just a multiverse laid bear, then it would be cakewalk for anti-monitor to go eating universes, but that's not what multi-Eternity is about. Think of it as the multiverse's avatar.

Your definitely right about ME being sentient and able to defend itself, but ME is the Multi-verse, ME is Not an Aspect or an Avatar.

Just like Eternity is a single Universe, personification and embodiment.

So, it's like a tapir eating ants, and sudently a ant with the size of an elephant appears?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
So, it's like a tapir eating ants, and sudently a ant with the size of an elephant appears?

and fights back as well

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
So, it's like a tapir eating ants, and sudently a ant with the size of an elephant appears?

No its more like Homer Simpson eating a giant doughnut,.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
So, it's like a tapir eating ants, and sudently a ant with the size of an elephant appears?




Exactly...

Ok, I've been doing some research into the whole COIE ordeal, and I've come to the conclusion that there's NO WAY, AM could win this fight. You see, as it turns out AM DIDN'T have the power of a near multi-verse. What he had was the power of a SINGLE large universe. Need proof? OK take a look...

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/1696/crisis715vo9.th.jpg

See, when one of the positive matter universes were destroyed, the anti matter universe expanded. AM didn't get all the power of the destroyed universe, his own universes power just increased. And that's what he got, the power of the Anti Matter Universe. He even says it himself, check it out...

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/9558/824nt5.th.jpg

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1513/825ch8.th.jpg

So how much power did he get when he absorbed his universe? Well, luckily enough, that's covered earlier in the same issue...

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/7577/815sf3.th.jpg

So he has the power of 53 million worlds, with more that 2 million of them containing life. Now I'm pretty sure that Marvel has never released an exact number on the population of the multi-verse, but given that there's an infinite number of universes within it, I feel safe in saying that there are more worlds(inhabited, and uninhabited) within Marvel's multi-verse, than there is within the anti matter universe. And what does that mean? Well that means that ME has MORE power to draw from, and is therefore more powerful.

(Now to all of those that are arguing for AM absorbing Multi Eternity, I would just like to point out that he NEVER demonstrated the ability to absorb a standard universe, only an anti matter universe. Matter and anti matter cancel each other out, so if he HAD tried to absorb one of the standard universes, it would have probably destroyed him. So he WON'T be absorbing any part of ME.)

Now as for the big show down at the dawn of time, I want you to take a look at something...

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/7272/crisis1023fd0.th.jpg

Well look what AM says in the first and second panels. He used his energy to breach the Wall of Creation, and NEEDED the life energy of DC's heroes to complete the next step. So apparently, the power he absorbed, wasn't even enough to complete his plan. So even if AM got the chance to go back in time to try to destroy ME, he wouldn't have the power to do it when he got there.

Now for those of you who are bound to point out that it took the Spectre to stop AM, well I have come up with 2 possible answers as to why that was necessary.

1. At the time, the Spectre simply wasn't as powerful at the time as he is now.
2. (And this is the one I believe) It was the single BIGGEST PIS showing in comic book history. Need proof of that? Well look...

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/8499/crisis1025vg7.th.jpg

Now think about that. The Spectre is backed by God, but for some reason he needs the power of some sorcerers to turn the tide? The way I figure it, DC needed someone that was more powerful than all the heroes put together for the big climactic showdown.But Kismet(DC's Eternity) hadn't been introduced yet. So who did DC have that fit that description? Spectre.

Looking at all this, I think it's safe to say, that Multi-Eternity wins this fight without to much trouble.

The numbers given don't fit with the idea of the DC multiverse, nor the story of the Crisis.

The multiverse is infinite, it says so inside of the Crisis, multiple times.
"In the beginning, there were many, a multiversal infinitude." - a direct narration from the comic.

When Pariah was explaining how he destroyed his own creation, and how he was the greatest scientist in his universe, he unleashed Anti-Matter and destroyed his own universe--- And the Anti-Matter Universe FILLED THE VOID. Basically assimilated.

By the end of the Crisis story, Anti-Monitor's Universe had expanded across the entire multiverse -- except the last 5 which were moved into the netherverse by Anti-Monitor's opposite... the Monitor.

It's completely contrary to the very idea of infinitely stretching universes, and the infinitely duplicated multiverse. lol, @DC multiverse being a handful of lightyears across.


But if DC's creation can stop the Anti-Monitor, so can Marvel's. It's pretty simple in that equation.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok, I've been doing some research into the whole COIE ordeal, and I've come to the conclusion that there's NO WAY, AM could win this fight. You see, as it turns out AM DIDN'T have the power of a near multi-verse. What he had was the power of a SINGLE large universe. Need proof? OK take a look...

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/1696/crisis715vo9.th.jpg

See, when one of the positive matter universes were destroyed, the anti matter universe expanded. AM didn't get all the power of the destroyed universe, his own universes power just increased. And that's what he got, the power of the Anti Matter Universe. He even says it himself, check it out...

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/9558/824nt5.th.jpg

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1513/825ch8.th.jpg

So how much power did he get when he absorbed his universe? Well, luckily enough, that's covered earlier in the same issue...

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/7577/815sf3.th.jpg

So he has the power of 53 million worlds, with more that 2 million of them containing life. Now I'm pretty sure that Marvel has never released an exact number on the population of the multi-verse, but given that there's an infinite number of universes within it, I feel safe in saying that there are more worlds(inhabited, and uninhabited) within Marvel's multi-verse, than there is within the anti matter universe. And what does that mean? Well that means that ME has MORE power to draw from, and is therefore more powerful.

(Now to all of those that are arguing for AM absorbing Multi Eternity, I would just like to point out that he NEVER demonstrated the ability to absorb a standard universe, only an anti matter universe. Matter and anti matter cancel each other out, so if he HAD tried to absorb one of the standard universes, it would have probably destroyed him. So he WON'T be absorbing any part of ME.)

Now as for the big show down at the dawn of time, I want you to take a look at something...

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/7272/crisis1023fd0.th.jpg

Well look what AM says in the first and second panels. He used his energy to breach the Wall of Creation, and NEEDED the life energy of DC's heroes to complete the next step. So apparently, the power he absorbed, wasn't even enough to complete his plan. So even if AM got the chance to go back in time to try to destroy ME, he wouldn't have the power to do it when he got there.

Now for those of you who are bound to point out that it took the Spectre to stop AM, well I have come up with 2 possible answers as to why that was necessary.

1. At the time, the Spectre simply wasn't as powerful at the time as he is now.
2. (And this is the one I believe) It was the single BIGGEST PIS showing in comic book history. Need proof of that? Well look...

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/8499/crisis1025vg7.th.jpg

Now think about that. The Spectre is backed by God, but for some reason he needs the power of some sorcerers to turn the tide? The way I figure it, DC needed someone that was more powerful than all the heroes put together for the big climactic showdown.But Kismet(DC's Eternity) hadn't been introduced yet. So who did DC have that fit that description? Spectre.

Looking at all this, I think it's safe to say, that Multi-Eternity wins this fight without to much trouble.


Excellent scans, and good research! I pretty much agree with everything you said on this, good work.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Excellent scans, and good research! I pretty much agree with everything you said on this, good work.
I second this, best work you done so far (which I have witnessed) Darthgoober.
A+

since where giving grades here, ill give you SS only geniuses deserve those not mediocry.... lol

ME FTW...

Darth

First of all, let me say thanks for the props everyone.

Second of all, everyone who's a big DC fan, should get ready to HATE me(if you don't already), because I've discovered something that's going to PISS you off. However it will also explain how the Anti Matter Universe, was able to expand and become more powerful, while retaining it's original size(which I already covered in my last post). Just remember, I didn't come up with this stuff, I'm only pointing it out.

Now we'll start with the beginnings of the DC Multiverse(I've included the first two pages of it's origin for anybody who doesn't know it, but the important stuff doesn't start until the third scan)...

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/1069/crisis707ks6.jpg
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7707/crisis708ye4.jpg

This one's a little more important, which is why you get a thumbnail for it(even though I already posted it)...

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/5586/crisis709qz3.th.jpg

Now the reason I say that the third scan is more important, is because it shows the universes overlapping to a degree, without actually interacting. Why you ask? Because the universes that made up the DC multi-verse, weren't laid out side by side, they were kind of stacked within the same space, and were separated by vibrational wavelengths that kept them from actually interacting with each other. This is first mentioned on the first page of the first book...

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/8470/page01uy9.th.jpg

See at the bottom it says that the universes were vibrating and replicating. Now I would also like to bring your attention to the part(in the same narration box), that says "what should have been one became many", because that's about to be important.

So what does all this talk about the universe fracturing and the resulting universes being separated by vibrations have to do with anything? Well I'll get to that after I show you these scans, which point out something important about the multi-verses origin...

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4880/page12qg5.th.jpg

This is from the first book. Look at what it says in the upper right hand panel. "The universe once divided into many parts...Each one different, independent, yet somehow WEAKER than the whole". What does this mean exactly? Well to put it bluntly, it means that even though DC at the time was a multiverse, it was a weak multiverse that only contained as much power as a single universe. And before anyone tries to call BS on the fact, here's the Monitor saying the same thing in the forth book...

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6759/crisis0419su7.th.jpg

"The universe was split apart at the dawn of time...each part WEAKER than the whole it was meant to be". He also says that the universes are separated by by vibrations and time.



When all of this is taken into account, here are my theories on the matter...

About AM's power increasing with the destruction of the positive matter universes... Well his universe obviously didn't grow outward and actually become larger(because of the dimensions given for it and because of the impossibility of an infinite number of universes being placed side by side). It would be more accurate to say that it grew in DENSITY(it's the best word I could think of to describe it). It became more real, and more like the ORIGINAL universe in overall power.

This also means(and THIS is what's really going to piss some people off), that even at the height of his power, AM wasn't even as powerful as a SINGLE intact universe(because there were still 5 universes left out to complete the whole). So not only could he not take Multi Eternity, he probably couldn't take the universal aspect of Eternity either. His power falls just shy(5 mini universes to be exact).


Before everyone starts attacking me as a "DC hater", let me just say that I've spent the past three days going over all this stuff, but there IS a chance I missed something. So if anyone has any evidence which goes against all this, feel free to bring it to the table, and I'll address it. Also, I have no idea, on how powerful DC's universe is NOW. All this stuff relates only to the power of DC during COIE. I'm not saying that Marvel's universe is STILL more powerful.

Originally posted by darthgoober
When all of this is taken into account, here are my theories on the matter...

About AM's power increasing with the destruction of the positive matter universes... Well his universe obviously didn't grow outward and actually become larger(because of the dimensions given for it and because of the impossibility of an infinite number of universes being placed side by side). It would be more accurate to say that it grew in DENSITY(it's the best word I could think of to describe it). It became more real, and more like the ORIGINAL universe in overall power.

This also means(and THIS is what's really going to piss some people off), that even at the height of his power, AM wasn't even as powerful as a SINGLE intact universe(because there were still 5 universes left out to complete the whole). So not only could he not take Multi Eternity, he probably couldn't take the universal aspect of Eternity either. His power falls just shy(5 mini universes to be exact).

Oh man, oh man,

you just threw a wrench in the DC cosmological hype (concerning AM that is)
This is all sound, and the On panel evidence is indisputable.


You a gangsta now

Originally posted by Mr Master
Oh man, oh man,

you just threw a wrench in the DC cosmological hype (concerning AM that is)
This is all sound, and the On panel evidence is indisputable.


You a gangsta now

Well we'll see as the monitors are back.

- Flame On!!

Any other thoughts?

I don't have time to break all this down this morning, as I won't be on but for a couple more minutes, but you dismissed one thing.

-- the Marvel multiverse is also seperated by vibrational frequencies. Reed and several other characters have made note of it. Even Reed's from different realities.

In fact, the very IDEA of a multiverse is that they are seperated by vibrational frequencies, even the ones in Quantum Mechanics- which most things in comics are based on.

I'm surprised Mr Master didn't point that out, but rather patted you on the back.


"The universe was split apart at the dawn of time...each part WEAKER than the whole it was meant to be".

Taking that, you take is as each universe being weaker than a standard universe, I take as the DCU having the a multiverse collapsed together into a single universe stronger than any other. We don't know the paramaters of the 'weak multiverse' or the 'stronger whole universe', or whatever. So that's all unsuported jargon. The multiverse was perfectly stable. It was a clear-cut multiverse.

The theory on the density is good though, but unsupported as well.

Originally posted by Juntai
-- the Marvel multiverse is also separated by vibrational frequencies. Reed and several other characters have made note of it. Even Reed's from different realities.

In fact, the very IDEA of a multiverse is that they are separated by vibrational frequencies, even the ones in Quantum Mechanics- which most things in comics are based on.
I never said that Marvel's wasn't separated the same way. It would have to be. Because you can't have two things of infinite size existing BESIDE each other without them interacting. I was just pointing all that out to erase any doubt about the Anti Matter universe growing in terms of actual size. It wouldn't do that, because the void it expanded to fill, wouldn't be beside it. The multiverse is basically the same size as a universe(at least in overall dimensions), only it's layered by vibrational frequencies. That's why I compaired it to density.

Originally posted by Juntai "The universe was split apart at the dawn of time...each part WEAKER than the whole it was meant to be".

Taking that, you take is as each universe being weaker than a standard universe, I take as the DCU having the a multiverse collapsed together into a single universe stronger than any other. We don't know the paramaters of the 'weak multiverse' or the 'stronger whole universe', or whatever. So that's all unsuported jargon. The multiverse was perfectly stable. It was a clear-cut multiverse. Well the DC multiverse was obviously stable, as made evident the fact that it was doing just fine until AM started messing with it. The problem is that Marvel(at least to my knowledge), has never stated anything like the whole "weaker than the whole" thing, so until they do, saying that Marvels multiverse is weaker than it would be, is even more unsupported than the theory I posted.

Originally posted by Juntai The theory on the density is good though, but unsupported as well.
I already said that density was just the best word I could think of to describe it. But the theory that the Anti Matter Universe actually grew in size, is not only unsupported, it's outright contradicted on panel. Which means that my way DOES make more sense(and ISN'T contradicted on panel). So I'll stick with my way of describing it.

Now if you(or anyone else), can come up with an instance of Marvel saying that the universes which make up the multiverse are weaker than they were meant to be, I'll accept that. But I'm not going to assume that it is, just to keep to the theory that the two multiverses were equal in strength.

Now I would like to point out that just about EVERYTHING discussed on this board is actually speculation. Saying that Ion beats Wolverine in a fight 10/10, is in fact speculation, because they've never fought(and don't get me wrong, he would). But that's what we do around here. We look at the evidence we're provided, and come to whatever conclusions seem to make sense. DC at the time had had stated that it's universes were weaker than they were meant to be, but(to my knowledge) Marvel never said anything like that, so assuming that the "whole" universe DC was talking about had as much power as the entire Marvel mutiverse, seems like a bit of a stretch.

Also, please remember that I'm only talking about the DC multiverse AT THE TIME. I don't know the conditions of the current DC multiverse, or how it was formed exactly(studying up on that will be my next project), so it may very well be just as powerful as the Marvel Multiverse NOW.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I never said that Marvels wasn't separated the same way. It would have to be. Because you can't have two things of infinite size existing BESIDE each other without them interacting. I was just pointing all that out to erase any doubt about the Anti Matter universe actually growing in terms of actual size. It wouldn't do that, because the void it expanded to fill, wouldn't be beside it. The multiverse is basically the same size as a universe(at least in overall dimensions), only it's layered by vibrational frequencies.

Well the DC multiverse was obviously stable, as made evident the fact that it was doing just fine until AM started messing with it. The problem is that Marvel(at least to my knowledge), has never stated anything like the whole "weaker than the whole" thing, so until they do, saying that Marvels multiverse is weaker than it would be, is even more unsupported than the theory I posted.


I already said that density was just the best word I could think of to describe it. But the theory that the Anti Matter Universe actually grew in size, is not only unsupported, it's outright contradicted on panel. Which means that my way DOES make more sense(and ISN'T contradicted on panel). So I'll stick with my way of describing it.

Now if you(or anyone else), can come up with an instance of Marvel saying that the universes which make up the multiverse are weaker than they were meant to be, I'll accept that. But I'm not going to assume that it is, just to keep to the theory that the two multiverses were equal in strength.

Now I would like to point out that just about EVERYTHING discussed on this board is actually speculation. Saying that Ion beats Wolverine in a fight 10/10, is in fact speculation, because they've never fought(and don't get me wrong, he would). But that's what we do around here. We look at the evidence we're provided, and draw whatever conclusions seem to make sense. DC at the time had had stated that it's universes were weaker than they were meant to be, but(to my knowledge) Marvel never said anything like that, so assuming that the "whole" DC was talking about having as much power as the entire Marvel mutiverse, seems like a bit of a stretch.

Also, please remember that I'm only talking about the DC multiverse AT THE TIME. I don't know the conditions of the current DC multiverse, or how it was formed exactly(studying up on that will be my next project), so it may very well be just as powerful as the Marvel Multiverse. Right, but what I'm saying is that there's really no way to benchmark the Marvel Multiverse and the DC Multiverse, only that they are both multiverses. DC's multiverse is weaker than the DCUniverse it was meant to be, but it can't really be said that the Marvel Multiverse is stronger than DC's multiverse, there's no way to support that, nor the other way - and I didn't suggest otherwise.

I think it's just plain clearer, that if the DC multiverse can stop Anti-Monitor, than so can Marvel.

Originally posted by Juntai
Right, but what I'm saying is that there's really no way to benchmark the Marvel Multiverse and the DC Multiverse, only that they are both multiverses. DC's multiverse is weaker than the DCUniverse it was meant to be, but it can't really be said that the Marvel Multiverse is stronger than DC's multiverse, there's no way to support that, nor the other way - and I didn't suggest otherwise.

I think it's just plain clearer, that if the DC multiverse can stop Anti-Monitor, than so can Marvel.
Your right. There's no way to really benchmark the two multiverses. But until more proof is provided by the companies, (universal) Eternity>Anti Monitor(at the height of his power).

Originally posted by darthgoober
Your right. There's no way to really benchmark the two multiverses. But unless more proof is provided, (universal) Eternity>Anti Monitor(at the height of his power). How so? He had destroyed the infinite universes. Would have wiped the whole multiverse, if the last 5 weren't moved.

And instead of just wiping them at the current time, at the height of his power, he was going remove them from ever existing at all, from the very begining.

Originally posted by Juntai
How so? He had destroyed the infinite universes. Would have wiped the whole multiverse, if the last 5 weren't moved.
Because there exist no proof that universes he destroyed are as powerful as the Marvel 616 Universe. The universes he destroyed were stated to be weaker than they were supposed to be, while Marvel has never stated that it's universes are anything but complete.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Because there exist no proof that universes he destroyed are as powerful as the Marvel 616 Universe. The universes he destroyed were stated to be weaker than they were supposed to be, while Marvel has never stated that it's universes are anything but complete. Right, but there's no way to say that Marvel's is inherently stronger, just because DC's multiverse is weaker than the DCUniverse it was meant to be. We just went through this. There's simply no way to support that.

Originally posted by Juntai
And instead of just wiping them at the current time, at the height of his power, he was going remove them from ever existing at all, from the very begining.
Yes but that wouldn't have worked unless he absorbed the life energies of the heroes. He expended to much energy breaching the wall of creation, and didn't have enough left to complete the process. So he couldn't do that on his own.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes but that wouldn't have worked unless he absorbed the life energies of the heroes. He expended to much energy breaching the wall of creation, and didn't have enough left to complete the process. So he couldn't do that on his own. No, but it was the height of his power. That's all I was saying.

Either way, I'm sure putting characters in stasis and linking their energy and essence to his, is a feat just as easily repeatable.

Originally posted by Juntai
Right, but there's no way to say that Marvel's is inherently stronger, just because DC's multiverse is weaker than the DCUniverse it was meant to be. We just went through this. There's simply no way to support that.
Yes but DC never referred to the "whole" universe as be anything but a universe. They never said it would be some ultra powerful universe. Just that it would have been a complete universe. So Anti Monitor had the power of a nearly complete universe. Eternity IS a complete universe.

Originally posted by Juntai
No, but it was the height of his power. That's all I was saying.

Either way, I'm sure putting characters in stasis and linking their energy and essence to his, is a feat just as easily repeatable.
Why is there going to be a group of heroes standing on the sidelines in a forum battle?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes but DC never referred to the "whole" universe as be anything but a universe. They never said it would be some ultra powerful universe. Just that it would have been a complete universe. So Anti Monitor had the power of a nearly complete universe. Eternity IS a complete universe. Are we going to keep going in circles?

DC had a multiverse.
Marvel has a multiverse.

Just because DC's multiverse became a 'stronger' DCUniverse, there's no way to proove Marvel's multiverse is inherently stronger as a result.

What you're saying relies on the fact that it is.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Why is there going to be a group of heroes standing on the sidelines in a forum battle?

Has it been defined that their isn't?

- FO!!