Full-potential Gambit vs Full-potential Iceman

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Accel
This the Omega version of Gambit (New Sun) vs pre-HoM Iceman.

Who wins?

Accel
Bottom of the page already?

Bump!

endrict
Iceman is omega level mutant vs a some what powerfull mutant

gee who wins? confused

Draco69
Originally posted by endrict
Iceman is omega level mutant vs a some what powerfull mutant

gee who wins? confused

erm

He's referring to New Son Gambit.

As in complete control of kinetic energy Gambit.

Darth Macabre
Originally posted by endrict
Iceman is omega level mutant vs a some what powerfull mutant

gee who wins? confused

An Omega level mutant vs. a mutant who destroyed his own planet, and constructed a home outside of time and space....Yeah, I don't see how this is an uneven fight like you think.

endrict
NVM didnt see that its the Omega version of Gambit.

sry

Brian Oswald
Gambit.

Has Iceman ever been at his 'full potential'?

SpunkySmurph
New Sun ftw

newavenger13
iceman wins

endrict
HUH? wait a minute...... gambit omega mutant???? god help us all.......marvel has gone down the shitter in the last few years.

Grimm22
I don't even compare New Sun and Gambit

New Sun is awesome and Gambit it the pinnacle of crap big grin

Anyway, New Sun wins

Priest
New Son wins...

ddsmrt
New Son takes this he is uber powerful iceman full potential could only piss him off and then gambit will blow him up.

Brian Oswald
Originally posted by endrict
HUH? wait a minute...... gambit omega mutant???? god help us all.......marvel has gone down the shitter in the last few years.
Its an alternate future thing that happend a long while a go

Accel
Originally posted by ddsmrt
New Son takes this he is uber powerful iceman full potential could only piss him off and then gambit will blow him up.
Blowing him up wouldn't do any thing. He'd just reform himself.

Grimm22
Then he blows up the planet stick out tongue

ddsmrt
exactly

ddsmrt
Iceman can reform him self nice but new son can also blow him up atomically destroying every single cell of his body

Darth Macabre
Originally posted by Grimm22
Then he blows up the planet stick out tongue

laughing I like how that came out so nonchalant.

SpunkySmurph
Well, in a sense, these two are opposites.

Correct me if I'm wrong:
Iceman slows down molecules
New Sun charges them wwith kinetic energy, in a style, heating and speeding them up
But, New Sun can do it faster, and just by thnking about it.

superbatman86
Seeing as Iceman doesn't have a full potential he wins this automatically.

Roldz
nobody wins they just cancel each other...

great_dane
gambit 8/10

Blair Wind
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Well, in a sense, these two are opposites.

Correct me if I'm wrong:
Iceman slows down molecules
New Sun charges them wwith kinetic energy, in a style, heating and speeding them up
But, New Sun can do it faster, and just by thnking about it.


How can he do it faster? confused

King KAM
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Well, in a sense, these two are opposites.

Correct me if I'm wrong:
Iceman slows down molecules
New Sun charges them wwith kinetic energy, in a style, heating and speeding them up
But, New Sun can do it faster, and just by thnking about it. no-ones mind has a speed on it, and with a full potential ice man, versus a full potential gambit ice man wins, for the face that Iceman flash freezes gambit and kills him instantly but at the same time gambit blows iceman up, but iceman can reform from the shards of vapor even...gambit on the other hand cant...considering iceman can make him so cold that because the air around him isnt the same temperature he cracks and breaks into little pieces.

StyleTime
Originally posted by endrict
HUH? wait a minute...... gambit omega mutant???? god help us all.......marvel has gone down the shitter in the last few years.
Actually, Gambit at full power is the best I've seen him written. As for the battle....

New Sun would probably win, but for different reasons than some of you think.Gambit can't just blow Iceman up because Iceman will reform. However, New Sun can teleport Iceman to basically anywhere New Sun can imagine. Iceman doesn't have spatial powers even when at full potential. There are some other factors in this fight, but I see Gambit winning via battlefied removal. He could also do a time freeze.

New Sun 8/10. He has more battle options than Iceman.

King KAM
Originally posted by StyleTime
Actually, Gambit at full power is the best I've seen him written. As for the battle....

New Sun would probably win, but for different reasons than some of you think.Gambit can't just blow Iceman up because Iceman will reform. However, New Sun can teleport Iceman to basically anywhere New Sun can imagine. Iceman doesn't have spatial powers even when at full potential. There are some other factors in this fight, but I see Gambit winning via battlefied removal. He could also do a time freeze.

New Sun 8/10. He has more battle options than Iceman. minds work at the same speed, unless he stops time or teleports iceman, he gets frozen to death, quickly

StyleTime
Originally posted by King KAM
minds work at the same speed, unless he stops time or teleports iceman, he gets frozen to death, quickly
That is what I said.

Grimm22
Isnt New Sun, made entirelly of kinetic energy confused

If so Iceman cant hurt him

HandOfFate
I'll give it to New Son.

King KAM
Originally posted by Grimm22
Isnt New Sun, made entirelly of kinetic energy confused

If so Iceman cant hurt him good thing iceman can slow all his energy down

superbatman86
Originally posted by Grimm22
Isnt New Sun, made entirelly of kinetic energy confused

If so Iceman cant hurt him Like Iceman can't freeze energy.Infinate potential>Finite potential.It's just that simple.

StyleTime
Originally posted by Grimm22
Isnt New Sun, made entirelly of kinetic energy confused

If so Iceman cant hurt him
He looks like it, but New Sun just uses the kinetic energy surrounding him to make a badass, glowing facade as a testament to his power. It would be cool if he was made of the energy though. God I wish they'd bring him back. I like Gambit but New Sun was so much more interesting.

However, he'd still teleport Iceman to some remote location in the universe, such as hell, before Iceman could really do anything. There are more methods for Gambit to win this, but this would probably be his first option.

New Sun 8/10

King KAM
Originally posted by StyleTime
He looks like it, but New Sun just uses the kinetic energy surrounding him to make a badass, glowing facade as a testament to his power. It would be cool if he was made of the energy though. God I wish they'd bring him back. I like Gambit but New Sun was so much more interesting.

However, he'd still teleport Iceman to some remote location in the universe, such as hell, before Iceman could really do anything. There are more methods for Gambit to win this, but this would probably be his first option.

New Sun 8/10 but gambit loses just as fast as he wins.

its a draw everytime

ThePittman
Iceman































NOT!!!!!

Superherovandal
only thing is that New son would basically be invulnerable to Iceman's powers cause he'd be able to easily unfreeze himself and the kinetic energy would block it. and if he's smart he'd teleport him right in front of the remnants of the big bang. no way he'd survive that.

StyleTime
Originally posted by King KAM
but gambit loses just as fast as he wins.

its a draw everytime
I am pretty sure Iceman's water removal tactic doesn't work istantly. That is probably his best option here. New Sun's teleportation happens the instant he wills it so.

A draw isn't completely out of the question but New Sun should take it.

Darth Macabre
Originally posted by Grimm22
Isnt New Sun, made entirelly of kinetic energy confused

If so Iceman cant hurt him

Yes, New Sun can exist as energy...Originally posted by superbatman86
Like Iceman can't freeze energy.Infinate potential>Finite potential.It's just that simple.

Freeze pure energy?....Yeah, right....

But New Sun wins via BFR.

ThePittman

Grimm22
Can new son survive in space?

If so then he wins big grin

HandOfFate

ThePittman
Originally posted by Grimm22
Can new son survive in space?

If so then he wins big grin If he is pure energy then yes smile

ThePittman
Originally posted by HandOfFate
You have no idea how long that took me to explain to somebody on a message board. It can be difficult at times like Speed of thought vs Speed of Light, that was a tuff one.

superbatman86
Originally posted by Darth Macabre
Yes, New Sun can exist as energy...

Freeze pure energy?....Yeah, right....

But New Sun wins via BFR. You've never seen X-men Forever have you?
http://img347.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever6p268ua.jpg

Darth Macabre
Originally posted by superbatman86
You've never seen X-men Forever have you?
http://img347.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever6p268ua.jpg

New Sun's energy is kinetic...You can't make kinetic energy freeze due to it being in continuous motion....Iceman tries to freeze New Sun, New Sun simply speeds up the movements of his energy, turning it back into Kinetic energy.

It's a standoff.

great_dane
I would say gambit.

he can poison the air iceman is breathing or send him to the past or future. i say gambit 9/10

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by Darth Macabre
New Sun's energy is kinetic...You can't make kinetic energy freeze due to it being in continuous motion....Iceman tries to freeze New Sun, New Sun simply speeds up the movements of his energy, turning it back into Kinetic energy.

It's a standoff.

I t's a standoff if all New Sun does is sit there and speed up his energy, not bothering to make an offensive move. The problem with Iceman, is, if New Sun has time for an offesnive move, he's dead. Or gone. Either way, granting Gambit the win

StyleTime
Originally posted by Darth Macabre
Yes, New Sun can exist as energy...
Originally posted by StyleTime
He looks like it, but New Sun just uses the kinetic energy surrounding him to make a badass, glowing facade as a testament to his power.

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/6657/gambit02004pr4.th.jpg

Darth Macabre
Originally posted by StyleTime
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/6657/gambit02004pr4.th.jpg In order for him to travel through the dimensions and space, he turned himself into pure energy. I'm not saying he is energy, just saying he can exist as it.

Arctic
Iceman 10/10.

StyleTime
Originally posted by Darth Macabre
In order for him to travel through the dimensions and space, he turned himself into pure energy. I'm not saying he is energy, just saying he can exist as it.
I don't remember seeing him do that. Care to prove it? Actually, I hope your right because that means he would pull a 10/10 win here if he actually can do that. So, is this theory or did he actually do this?
Originally posted by Arctic
Iceman 10/10.
Please...tell me how Iceman gets a 10/10 win here. The most he can do is a stalemate and I only see that happening about 2/10 when Gambit screws up.

superbatman86
Originally posted by Darth Macabre
New Sun's energy is kinetic...You can't make kinetic energy freeze due to it being in continuous motion....Iceman tries to freeze New Sun, New Sun simply speeds up the movements of his energy, turning it back into Kinetic energy.

It's a standoff. That's cosmic energy it's beyond kinetic energy.

ThePittman
Originally posted by superbatman86
That's cosmic energy it's beyond kinetic energy. No even cosmic energy is kinetic, if it moves or has mass then it has kinetic energy.

King KAM
Originally posted by StyleTime
I am pretty sure Iceman's water removal tactic doesn't work istantly. That is probably his best option here. New Sun's teleportation happens the instant he wills it so.

A draw isn't completely out of the question but New Sun should take it. iceman doesnt have to remove the water, he simply has to flash freeze gambit, which he can do instantly as he wills it to.

this fight is a draw, because they both die instantly.

ThePittman

King KAM

ThePittman

Arctic
Iceman 10/10. PERIOD FOOL!

superbatman86
Originally posted by ThePittman
No even cosmic energy is kinetic, if it moves or has mass then it has kinetic energy. No it's not.In real life your right but in comics there are people beyond thethe laws of energy and the Stranger happens to be one of them.

ThePittman
Originally posted by Arctic
Iceman 10/10. PERIOD FOOL! laughing





















NOT

StyleTime
Originally posted by King KAM
iceman doesnt have to remove the water, he simply has to flash freeze gambit, which he can do instantly as he wills it to.

this fight is a draw, because they both die instantly.
Slowing down Gambit's molecules wouldn't work since Gambit can speed them up. They'd stalemate with that tactic until Gambit decides to BFR Iceman or time freeze him. The water removal would honestly be a better tactic.

King KAM
Originally posted by StyleTime
Slowing down Gambit's molecules wouldn't work since Gambit can speed them up. They'd stalemate with that tactic until Gambit decides to BFR Iceman or time freeze him. The water removal would honestly be a better tactic. how can gambit speed up his molecules in a nano-second? and full potential iceman can suck all the water from him instantly it will take no time...

And Crocop got an easy route, even though what he did to silva was impressive, but wandy came in too heavy and with a shitty gameplan, and Barnett is already scared shitless of mirko. I feel like barnett lost to Nog, Nog schooled him on the ground, and won unanimous to me, and could have beat crocop again...but we will never know considering crocop will retire after Fedor puts the whooping on him....AGAIN

jrodslam
Originally posted by StyleTime
Slowing down Gambit's molecules wouldn't work since Gambit can speed them up. They'd stalemate with that tactic until Gambit decides to BFR Iceman or time freeze him. The water removal would honestly be a better tactic.

When Iceman flash freezes, the molecules arent slowed down, they are fozen in place. Instantly. Actually, the water removal would take a bit longer thus flash freeze is the best way to go.

StyleTime
Originally posted by King KAM
how can gambit speed up his molecules in a nano-second? and full potential iceman can suck all the water from him instantly it will take no time...

And Crocop got an easy route, even though what he did to silva was impressive, but wandy came in too heavy and with a shitty gameplan, and Barnett is already scared shitless of mirko. I feel like barnett lost to Nog, Nog schooled him on the ground, and won unanimous to me, and could have beat crocop again...but we will never know considering crocop will retire after Fedor puts the whooping on him....AGAIN
The same way Iceman can slow them down. Only in reverse.

Crocop can beat Fedor and he can beat Nogueira. Nog got really lucky with that armbar last time. I doubt it'd happen if they fought again. Mirko's route wasn't that easy man. Everyone who had a chance against him was there. The Nog vs Barnett is indeed debatable. I would have rather have seen Nog vs Crocop 2 myself instead of Mirko killing Barnett 3.

What do you think about The Real Deal event? Aren't Coleman and Fedor rematching. I honestly think Coleman could have one their first fight, but he got way too impatient. I'm not sure if he can do it now. Fedor has gotten too good. Also, have they announced who Crocop is fighting?
Originally posted by jrodslam
When Iceman flash freezes, the molecules arent slowed down, they are fozen in place. Instantly. Actually, the water removal would take a bit longer thus flash freeze is the best way to go.
I know the water removal would take longer but Gambit is surrounded by energy. Iceman would only be freezing a kinetic shell basically.(if he can even do that). That's why I said the water removal would be a better tactic. Both methods would allow Gambit to toss Bobby to the other side of the universe or simply freeze him. If they both go for their "instant death" moves, I agree that it will be terribly close and no mistakes or hesitation would be allowed. However, Iceman doesn't have a defense against Gambit's trump cards whereas Gambit has a defense against Iceman's.

King KAM
Originally posted by StyleTime
The same way Iceman can slow them down. Only in reverse.

Crocop can beat Fedor and he can beat Nogueira. Nog got really lucky with that armbar last time. I doubt it'd happen if they fought again. Mirko's route wasn't that easy man. Everyone who had a chance against him was there. The Nog vs Barnett is indeed debatable. I would have rather have seen Nog vs Crocop 2 myself instead of Mirko killing Barnett 3.

What do you think about The Real Deal event? Aren't Coleman and Fedor rematching. I honestly think Coleman could have one their first fight, but he got way too impatient. I'm not sure if he can do it now. Fedor has gotten too good. Also, have they announced who Crocop is fighting?

I know the water removal would take longer but Gambit is surrounded by energy. Iceman would only be freezing a kinetic shell basically.(if he can even do that). That's why I said the water removal would be a better tactic. Both methods would allow Gambit to toss Bobby to the other side of the universe or simply freeze him. If they both go for their "instant death" moves, I agree that it will be terribly close and no mistakes or hesitation would be allowed. However, Iceman doesn't have a defense against Gambit's trump cards whereas Gambit has a defense against Iceman's. Crocop losing to Nog the first time was in no way a fluke, Mirko had a 10 minute first round of standing to knockout Nog and he couldnt, in the second round they played Nogs game, and Mirko lost with ease, if Nog is just too much for Mirko on the ground, so if they ever rematched, if it goes to the ground, once again Nog will be victorious. But if left standing then Mirko will be victorious, its all about who imposes there will, because Nog can box and has a great chin, and can hang in their for a while in standing, even though sooner or later im pretty sure hed lose, BUT mirko cant hang with Nog on the ground at all.

Fedor is going to beat Coleman at the real deal. Coleman is a great wrestler and got a good take down in their first fight, but He has no gas tank, poor submission skills, and poor striking, Fedor is the COMPLETE package, and i feel that he will win, actually I'd bet on it. And for Fedor vs Crocop, Fedor out-struck Mirko in their last fight, even though it was close standing, and i feel he can do it again, Mirko is good, but not the best...here is how i rank the heavyweights in pride.

1.Fedor (king of the hill, hasnt fought because of injury but until proven different is the king).
2. Nog (lost a crap decision to Barnett which i feel will be avenged, and besides that has been unstoppable besides Fedor)
3.Crocop (great striker, but crappy ground game, and not the best at defending judo takedowns).
4.Barnett( solid guy)

and five is debatable between a few people...

jrodslam
Originally posted by StyleTime
I know the water removal would take longer but Gambit is surrounded by energy. Iceman would only be freezing a kinetic shell basically.(if he can even do that). That's why I said the water removal would be a better tactic. Both methods would allow Gambit to toss Bobby to the other side of the universe or simply freeze him. If they both go for their "instant death" moves, I agree that it will be terribly close and no mistakes or hesitation would be allowed. However, Iceman doesn't have a defense against Gambit's trump cards whereas Gambit has a defense against Iceman's.

Gambit is surrounded by energy, but what is internally? Flash Freeze starts from the inside out. If its energy as well, im sure hed be a big piece of iced energy.

StyleTime
Originally posted by King KAM
Crocop losing to Nog the first time was in no way a fluke, Mirko had a 10 minute first round of standing to knockout Nog and he couldnt, in the second round they played Nogs game, and Mirko lost with ease, if Nog is just too much for Mirko on the ground, so if they ever rematched, if it goes to the ground, once again Nog will be victorious. But if left standing then Mirko will be victorious, its all about who imposes there will, because Nog can box and has a great chin, and can hang in their for a while in standing, even though sooner or later im pretty sure hed lose, BUT mirko cant hang with Nog on the ground at all.

Fedor is going to beat Coleman at the real deal. Coleman is a great wrestler and got a good take down in their first fight, but He has no gas tank, poor submission skills, and poor striking, Fedor is the COMPLETE package, and i feel that he will win, actually I'd bet on it. And for Fedor vs Crocop, Fedor out-struck Mirko in their last fight, even though it was close standing, and i feel he can do it again, Mirko is good, but not the best...here is how i rank the heavyweights in pride.

1.Fedor (king of the hill, hasnt fought because of injury but until proven different is the king).
2. Nog (lost a crap decision to Barnett which i feel will be avenged, and besides that has been unstoppable besides Fedor)
3.Crocop (great striker, but crappy ground game, and not the best at defending judo takedowns).
4.Barnett( solid guy)

and five is debatable between a few people...
Yeah it was a fluke. Mirko just got to confident. Mirko's ground game has come up a bit since his first fight with Nog. Don't get me wrong, Crocop obviously can't outgrapple Nog, but he made Barnett look like a little girl on the ground in the last fight. Whether or not you think Josh beat Nog, Josh did give one hell of a showing against Nog. Also, noone can knock out Nog so I don't see why Crocop not being able to knock him out should take anything away from him. Crocop, if careful, should be able to do like he did in their last fight and do it both rounds this time.

Yeah, I think Fedor will win too, but you have to admit, Coleman look like he could have handed Fedor a loss in their first fight.

My Rank
1. Fedor( Undefeated. 'Nuff said)
2. Crocop/Nog( I put them here because I think a rematch could go in either's favor. However, I think Crocop could take it.)
3.Nog/Crocop
4. Josh (He's gotten pretty damn good. Sadly, his peers are just a small level ahead of him so he's stuck down here.
5. Agreed. Too many fighters debatebly can be placed here.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Gambit is surrounded by energy, but what is internally? Flash Freeze starts from the inside out. If its energy as well, im sure hed be a big piece of iced energy.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't think the flash freeze starts from the inside. Care to show me that?

Gambit also knows Iceman can do the freeze. Gambit could simply uses his own powers to keep his molecules moving instead of doing an attack at the start of the fight. This would lead to stalemate until Gambit throws in the teleport or the time freeze.

jrodslam
Originally posted by StyleTime
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't think the flash freeze starts from the inside. Care to show me that?

Gambit also knows Iceman can do the freeze. Gambit could simply uses his own powers to keep his molecules moving instead of doing an attack at the start of the fight. This would lead to stalemate until Gambit throws in the teleport or the time freeze.

This pic here doesnt actually say from the inside out, but every molecule inside Legions body is instantly frozen.
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/792/xmenn41p143oasp2.th.jpg


If Gambit is able to hold out and prevent that, then a time freeze would certainly do the trick.

ThePittman
Originally posted by jrodslam
This pic here doesnt actually say from the inside out, but every molecule inside Legions body is instantly frozen.
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/792/xmenn41p143oasp2.th.jpg


If Gambit is able to hold out and prevent that, then a time freeze would certainly do the trick. He is only freezing the water molecules not all of his atoms, BIG difference.

Blair Wind
.......you want atoms? You want molecules? You want everything that makes up a spacefaring (which means it can deal with temps three degrees above absolute zero) celestial ship??
http://img347.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever5p192kj.jpg
http://img347.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever5p208wl.jpg
http://img347.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever5p217vf.jpg

You want energy being frozen?
http://img347.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever6p268ua.jpg

(hes not touching it, or directing a blast towards it. He simply froze it)

dont know enough about New Sun to say anything just giving scans out

ThePittman

Blair Wind
...thats not Apoc. Thats the Stranger. You know, guy who is a cosmic being? Guy whos disengrated Surfers Board? Sometimes considered the fourth face (or is it third? something like that) of the Living Tribunal.

Part of his powers: Although he most often appears as a white-haired middle-aged man and assumes various heights, he wields vast energy-manipulating powers and can travel through space unaided

And the ship? He froze EVERYTHING. Which means molecules, atoms, inside, outside. He froze it all

Could Iceman do say this: http://img332.imageshack.us/my.php?image=icemanbloodfreeze4zt8la.jpg

Since he can transmute ice to water (and himself to ice, water, or gas) why not just turn all the water in Gambits body to gas??:
http://img370.imageshack.us/my.php?image=transmutesicetowater2my.jpg

New Sun is an energy being or someone covered in energy? What can he do exactly? I know its gambit with increased powers...but what can he do exactly?

ThePittman
New Sun control all of kinetic energy and can exist as pure energy. As for my Apoc reference that is my bad but the concept still applies. As for the ship it said nothing about freezing the atoms just that he froze it, big difference between the two. New Sun with his power basically can do most of what Iceman can; removing all kinetic energy from something would freeze it as well or the opposite just blow everything up.

Blair Wind
Originally posted by ThePittman
New Sun control all of kinetic energy and can exist as pure energy. As for my Apoc reference that is my bad but the concept still applies. As for the ship it said nothing about freezing the atoms just that he froze it, big difference between the two.

The problem with that assessment is that in the dialogue they mention that he had to FREEZE EVERYTHING IT *IS* not just the environment, but everything that makes it up. That includes atoms, molecules, every moving particle of the ship

superbatman86
Originally posted by ThePittman
New Sun control all of kinetic energy and can exist as pure energy. As for my Apoc reference that is my bad but the concept still applies. As for the ship it said nothing about freezing the atoms just that he froze it, big difference between the two. New Sun with his power basically can do most of what Iceman can; removing all kinetic energy from something would freeze it as well or the opposite just blow everything up. No it said he froze everything it is.It was a celestial ship that could teleport people across time and space as well as tap into the genetics of people and control their powers.No matter how strong gambit gets he can never get as strong as Iceman can.

ThePittman

Soljer
They have the same GOD DAMNED POWER!

Ugh -_-.

They both have complete, innate, and utter control over Kinetic Energy, guys. Plain and simple. If we are taking them to be full potential, they are pretty much the same friggin person. Iceman simply maifested his powers mostly in the removal of kinetic energy, (though, it's obvious that he can add it too), while New Sun (Son? I've heard both.) manifested HIS powers mainly in adding it.

Needless to say, though, if both were at their full (as of yet, unrealized) potential? Their powers would be identical.

Stalemate.

ThePittman
Originally posted by Soljer
They have the same GOD DAMNED POWER!

Ugh -_-.

They both have complete, innate, and utter control over Kinetic Energy, guys. Plain and simple. If we are taking them to be full potential, they are pretty much the same friggin person. Iceman simply maifested his powers mostly in the removal of kinetic energy, (though, it's obvious that he can add it too), while New Sun (Son? I've heard both.) manifested HIS powers mainly in adding it.

Needless to say, though, if both were at their full (as of yet, unrealized) potential? Their powers would be identical.

Stalemate. The same power not at all, each and do about he same thing when it comes to movement of atoms but that is about it. Iceman removes heat and New Sun controls the kinetic energy which means he can speed it up, slow it down, increase it or remove it or what ever he wants. Plus New Sun and Iceman have many other things that they can do that are not even close to the same, but what New Sun does is at the base level of what Iceman can do so that is why I give him the win in this.

superbatman86

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by superbatman86
So simply freezing the surface stops a celestial ship that had time travel,the ability to go to alternate futures, genetic manipulation, and the ability to contain a cosmic being stronger than New Sun.Yeah, no.New Sun isn't an omega mutant just a very powerful one.

No. He is an Omega mutant.

He blew up his home world. His entire world. That's why it's 'Sun', not Son.

Soljer
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
No. He is an Omega mutant.

He blew up his home world. His entire world. That's why it's 'Sun', not Son.

But, if I recall, didn't 'our' Gambit eventually manifest his OWN new sun/son (he was referred to as both, in the comics...) powers? And didn't he also burn them out combating the original New Sun?

Curious for a being with unlimited potential to burn out.

Darth Macabre
Originally posted by Soljer
But, if I recall, didn't 'our' Gambit eventually manifest his OWN new sun/son (he was referred to as both, in the comics...) powers? And didn't he also burn them out combating the original New Sun?

Curious for a being with unlimited potential to burn out.

I haven't read it in a while, but I'm pretty sure he burned them out on purpose. He was trying to over load New Suns powers.

Soljer
Originally posted by Darth Macabre
I haven't read it in a while, but I'm pretty sure he burned them out on purpose. He was trying to over load New Suns powers.

I'm aware. Fact is, though, he still burned out his powers. And overloaded the OTHER Gambit's.

Unless we disagree over the fact that Omega Mutants DO have unlimited potential....I think the logical conclusion is pretty clear.

Unlimited, by definition, is without limit, unconstrained, unconfined, boundless, etc.

Obviously, if something can be overloaded or burned out, it isn't quite boundless.

Darth Macabre
Originally posted by Soljer
I'm aware. Fact is, though, he still burned out his powers. And overloaded the OTHER Gambit's.

Unless we disagree over the fact that Omega Mutants DO have unlimited potential....I think the logical conclusion is pretty clear.

Unlimited, by definition, is without limit, unconstrained, unconfined, boundless, etc.

Obviously, if something can be overloaded or burned out, it isn't quite boundless.

Not necessarily...His powers can return to him with time perhaps, only the future can truly tell that. I know 'in-verse' everyone thinks those powers are gone, but you can't completely denounce the possibility for them coming back. And about New Sun being overloaded; that wasn't his power. His powers might be unlimited, but adding to those powers might overload.

I don't believe Gambit is/was/can be Omega, but there is evidence that New Sun is a different story.

Soljer
I thought that New Sun and Gambit were of equal power - hence one being able to be overloaded, and the other burnt out in the process? No?

Regardless, I don't see ANYONE with unlimited potential being overloaded. Was New Sun an INCREDIBLY powerful mutant? Yeah. Cosmic threat, even? Definitely!

Omega?

Nah.

Regardless of that fact, though, I still stand by the argument that Iceman and New Sun (both at their full, unrealized potential) would have damn near the exact same powers. Stalemate.

StyleTime
My internet has been down for past couple of days but I'm back.
Originally posted by jrodslam
This pic here doesnt actually say from the inside out, but every molecule inside Legions body is instantly frozen.
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/792/xmenn41p143oasp2.th.jpg


If Gambit is able to hold out and prevent that, then a time freeze would certainly do the trick.
Nice pic man. I can always count on you to back up what you say. However, you already realize New Sun could defend that long enough for a BFR.
Originally posted by superbatman86
No matter how strong gambit gets he can never get as strong as Iceman can.
In terms of straight up power, it's hard to say. However, New Sun's abilities give him access to time/space manipulation and he did beat his worlds Phoenix so New Sun isn't lacking in power.
Originally posted by Soljer
I'm aware. Fact is, though, he still burned out his powers. And overloaded the OTHER Gambit's.

Unless we disagree over the fact that Omega Mutants DO have unlimited potential....I think the logical conclusion is pretty clear.

Unlimited, by definition, is without limit, unconstrained, unconfined, boundless, etc.

Obviously, if something can be overloaded or burned out, it isn't quite boundless.
Gambit beating New Sun is simply bullshit writing. New Sun was trained since before his powers even manifested to use them. Not to mention Gambit even admitted he couldn't win.
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6082/gambitv102406rougherly6.th.jpg

All he had to do is shunt the excess energy or, even better, blast it back at Gambit who would then have no way to defend against it. Unfortunately Marvel can't just kill off Gambit and give New Sun a solo series( like they should) so New Sun lost.

Also, like you said, are we really sure omega mutants can have unlimited potential, or is it just an unknown level of potential?

PS. It's only a stalemate until Gambit decides to use something like a BFR or freezing Iceman(in time...not like...icing him).

P.S.S. To all those who don't know the difference between New Sun and New Son. New Son was simply what everyone in Marvel THOUGHT he was called before he actually explained that he was actually called New Sun and for a very literal reason.

StyleTime
Ahem.

Entity
Damn is there ANY cool thread I can think of that hasn't already been done????????????

Soljer
Originally posted by Entity
Damn is there ANY cool thread I can think of that hasn't already been done????????????

Wolverine versus Spiderman seems like it'd be a pretty good fight.

Go make that thread.

smile.

Entity
Originally posted by Soljer
Wolverine versus Spiderman seems like it'd be a pretty good fight.

Go make that thread.

smile.

Naw, I just don't see it getting any post. confused

Soljer
Originally posted by Entity
Naw, I just don't see it getting any post. confused

Hmm...that's true....

Not NEARLY enough Spiderman or Wolverine fans around these forums. They are all Silver Surfer fans....

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by Soljer
Hmm...that's true....

Not NEARLY enough Spiderman or Wolverine fans around these forums. They are all castrated silver nudist fans....

sly

Soljer
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
sly

You know what? Until you get a new sig, every response of mine to you is going to include some reference to Mario being covered in jizz.

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by Soljer
I like men who don't have anything down below!!! droolio

sly

Entity
My roomate and his best friend use to give me hell all the time before the new Ion series came out. The held that Silver Surfer was the most powerful common showing hero. I would bring up my favorite Kyle as Ion and they would start with this going joke. "Who the **** is ION?" So I started to always reply "He sure as hell ain't a naked bald silver dude on a surfer board". Later I added "Taken orders from a giant hungry *** in a purple dress." stick out tongue



No offense I love oh Norrin.

Soljer
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
sly

Hey, I have scans that show Norrin using some nifty transmutation to get it on with his girl. shifty

Also....

Jizz-face. no expression.

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by Soljer
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Male Nudists Turn Me On Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah

sly

Soljer
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Jizz-covered fat italian plumbers turn me on!

sly

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by Soljer
Mario would kick Silver Surfer's naked unic ass

sly

Soljer
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
I can't spell eunuch. Oh yes, and JIZZ JIZZ JIZZ

sly

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
No. He is an Omega mutant. Nuh uh.

Full potential Jubilee blows up the multiverse.

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by Soljer
I memorized how to spell unic properly and the non-kewl way because I'm in love with them droolio

sly

h1a8
Is this Gambit immortal? If not then I see Iceman shooting many ice spears through his head and body (killing him instantly and gruesomely).

Soljer
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
.....


Jizz Jizz Jizz!

sly

starlock
very confusing thread full potential gambit will be able to teleport? i know new sun is a alternate gambit,but i would have had the thread new sun vs full potential iceman
full potential iceman for the win

ThePittman
I see it more as a stalemate than anything else

LORDSIDIOUS01
Bobby Drake.

ThePittman
Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
Bobby Drake. no

capt it up
wait how is this even possible. gambit in alpha not an omega. He stand no chance

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by capt it up
wait how is this even possible. gambit in alpha not an omega. He stand no chance

...

Failed Logic.

New Sun can do everything that Iceman can do. Everything.

ThePittman
Originally posted by capt it up
wait how is this even possible. gambit in alpha not an omega. He stand no chance New Son is a total different breed, he is easily Omega level and if not a stalemate New Son would win.

Soljer
My only problem with 'omega' level new son/sun: how do we know?

You can be a VERY powerful mutant without being Omega level (Mad Jim Jaspers, anyone?), so power isn't a clear indication.

What is the definition of Omega? Unlimited potential? How would someone with unlimitd potential then burn out? We had TWO Gambit's burn out, actually.

Is New Sun incredibly powerful? Well **** yes!

Is he Omega? Unless I missed a narration somewhere, no.

xmarksthespot
He's not an Omega.

This:
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/9228/acx00114sm1.th.jpg
And this:
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2811/xmenthe198files14vv1.th.jpg
And this:
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2306/newmutantsv201202roughewt0.th.jpg
Makes Elixir an Omega.

And it's the only thing that can make a character an Omega.

SpunkySmurph
It doesn't matter if he's not Omega.

He's an Alpha with enough potential to match Omega Iceman

Blair Wind
no expression

Alpha = Omega?

.........no expression

Soljer
Originally posted by Blair Wind
no expression

Alpha = Omega?

.........no expression

Lets not get stuck on labels.

Cause....

Mad Jim Jaspers.

Blair Wind
Yes. Powerful. But if you go FULL potential on each (not assuming WHAT type of powers they would get of course) Omega outclasses alpha. Always.

Soljer
Originally posted by Blair Wind
Yes. Powerful. But if you go FULL potential on each (not assuming WHAT type of powers they would get of course) Omega outclasses alpha. Always.

.....

When could Elixer or Iceman outdo Jimmy? How?

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by Blair Wind
Yes. Powerful. But if you go FULL potential on each (not assuming WHAT type of powers they would get of course) Omega outclasses alpha. Always.

no expression

...Iceman> Mad Jim?

..........no expression

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Soljer
.....

When could Elixer or Iceman outdo Jimmy? How?

I am not saying now, or that we will ever see it happen. I cannot presume to know how or what they could do, but with their Omega level status in terms of power limits they will surpass alphas in limit if they reach that potentiel And if I remember correctly all the cosmic beings were scared of omega level mutants because they represented the end of them (that was in the X-men Forever series)

I am not saying elixer or Iceman>>>>Jim. Just saying that one way or another the guy has SOME limit to his power, while the other two would not. erm

Also (and I have not looked into this at all so take it with a grain of salt) according to GS omega level mutants final "power" is to connect with the phoenix force....just a thought

Soljer
Originally posted by Blair Wind
I am not saying now, or that we will ever see it happen. I cannot presume to know how or what they could do, but with their Omega level status in terms of power limits they will surpass alphas in limit if they reach that potentiel And if I remember correctly all the cosmic beings were scared of omega level mutants because they represented the end of them (that was in the X-men Forever series)

I am not saying elixer or Iceman>>>>Jim. Just saying that one way or another the guy has SOME limit to his power, while the other two would not. erm

Also (and I have not looked into this at all so take it with a grain of salt) according to GS omega level mutants final "power" is to connect with the phoenix force....just a thought

1. Having unlimited potential in one dimension doesn't mean you have unlimited power. The Hulk has unlimited strength, but versatility kills him. If a mutant's only power was to turn things blue, but he was Omega, I could still kill him with a rock.

Iceman can control all the water molecules in the universe if he so pleases, a being that controls all the kinetic energy will be superior. (Also note that it was only THEORIZED that Iceman worked on a kinetic energy level, it was CERTAIN with New Sun).

But anyways, if we are to assume that Iceman at full potential can control kinetic energy, then he wins this. If we are to assume that Iceman is still restricted to water, I'd give it to New Sun.

And, lastly, unlimited potential does not mean unlimited power! mad

I could kill the Omega-Turn-Things-Blue-Mutant with my bare hands. Just because he has 'no quantifiable limit' to his turn shit blue power, does NOT mean diddly squat. stick out tongue.

Okay, I lied, that wasn't last; this will be. Out of curiosity, how are we to be certain that Omega mutants DO have unlimited potential, anyways? Is it because professor X said so? I'm not so easily convinced. I mean....maybe to a primitive HUMAN mind, there is no real limit to the potential, but on a cosmic scale? How unlimited is unlimited? Could full potential Iceman mess around with water molecules if...say...the LIVING TRIBUNAL judged that he shouldn't?

erm.

Soljer
****. I just realized that I numbered my first point, but none of the following. Well, don't I look stupid?

Oh, and on your last point, you brought up GS' opinion on the phoenix force and omega mutants.

I just want to point out that that IS an opinion - one that is, obviously, hottly contested by Mr. Master.

Who is correct? I don't have a clue....

Just pointing out that you can't use another poster's opinion as fact.

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by Soljer
1. Having unlimited potential in one dimension doesn't mean you have unlimited power. The Hulk has unlimited strength, but versatility kills him. If a mutant's only power was to turn things blue, but he was Omega, I could still kill him with a rock.

Iceman can control all the water molecules in the universe if he so pleases, a being that controls all the kinetic energy will be superior. (Also note that it was only THEORIZED that Iceman worked on a kinetic energy level, it was CERTAIN with New Sun).

But anyways, if we are to assume that Iceman at full potential can control kinetic energy, then he wins this. If we are to assume that Iceman is still restricted to water, I'd give it to New Sun.

And, lastly, unlimited potential does not mean unlimited power! mad

I could kill the Omega-Turn-Things-Blue-Mutant with my bare hands. Just because he has 'no quantifiable limit' to his turn shit blue power, does NOT mean diddly squat. stick out tongue.

Okay, I lied, that wasn't last; this will be. Out of curiosity, how are we to be certain that Omega mutants DO have unlimited potential, anyways? Is it because professor X said so? I'm not so easily convinced. I mean....maybe to a primitive HUMAN mind, there is no real limit to the potential, but on a cosmic scale? How unlimited is unlimited? Could full potential Iceman mess around with water molecules if...say...the LIVING TRIBUNAL judged that he shouldn't?

erm.


So... you only have one point Soljer? confused

Victory is mine!!!

Soljer
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
So... you only have one point Soljer? confused

Victory is mine!!!

I already pointed that out.

Making a joke about something that someone's already pointed out is hardly difficult, nor entertaining.

POINTING something out in the first place is where the humor's at. Or bringing up something that someone else has pointed out. The person not realizing the mistake is the humor.

You lose, stick out tongue.

Oh..and....

Get a new friggin signature, jizz-warrior!

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by Soljer
I already pointed that out.

Making a joke about something that someone's already pointed out is hardly difficult, nor entertaining.

POINTING something out in the first place is where the humor's at. Or bringing up something that someone else has pointed out. The person not realizing the mistake is the humor.

You lose, stick out tongue.

Oh..and....

Get a new friggin signature, jizz-warrior!


You... have a comma before your smilie. And a period after that. Implying it's a word.

That probably violates some rule of grammar.

...

HAH! mad

And Cain is taking a while... sad

Soljer
laughing laughing

People have talked about that before, they thought it odd. It never really phased me, I've always tried to use proper grammar.

Even with emoticons - I'll still put periods after them, and commas where specific.

Maybe it's wrong, but, technically, rules of grammar don't give any guidelines for emoticons.

So, I could go BUCK WILD with emoticons and still be grammatically correct.

stick out tongue.

What kind of sig are you getting?

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by Soljer

So, I could go BUCK WILD with emoticons and still be grammatically correct.

Sounds kinky. ermm

Originally posted by Soljer
What kind of sig are you getting?

None of your buisness. miffed

Though... in retrospect... I wonder if I should have given Cain a better ass shot of Gamora... hmm

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
no expression

...Iceman> Mad Jim?

..........no expression To be fair, Mad Jim Jaspers was created back in the early 1980s - long long before the Omega concept was established - and even then was published under the Marvel UK division; so he's not a perfect example since if it were published today maybe they would label him an Omega. Wanda Maximoff a bastardized MJJ is probably a better example.

h1a8
Is New Sun Immortal? Can he be injured and die by conventional means?
If so, then anyone should see (even a little child) that he loses here.
What is he going when he is frozen instantly. That should kill him unless he has healing factor. His blood, nerves, etc would be damaged beyond repair. Freezing not only freezes but it greatly damages the cells. What about ice spears going through his brain also?

qqqqqqq
can somebody tell me how powerful is FP iceman?? feats?

ThePittman
Originally posted by h1a8
Is New Sun Immortal? Can he be injured and die by conventional means?
If so, then anyone should see (even a little child) that he loses here.
What is he going when he is frozen instantly. That should kill him unless he has healing factor. His blood, nerves, etc would be damaged beyond repair. Freezing not only freezes but it greatly damages the cells. What about ice spears going through his brain also? Do you know anything about New Son? Based off of powers alone they would cancel each other out and "freezing" wouldn't do anything because New Sun has complete control over kinetic energy.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by ThePittman
Do you know anything about New Son? Based off of powers alone they would cancel each other out and "freezing" wouldn't do anything because New Sun has complete control over kinetic energy. Where was it stated he had complete control over kinetic energy, I tend not to avoid things that focus too much on Gambit. Was this a universal control of energy?

ThePittman
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Where was it stated he had complete control over kinetic energy, I tend not to avoid things that focus too much on Gambit. Was this a universal control of energy? Maybe "complete control" is a bit of an over statement but enough to fry a planet is pretty much a lot of power and control.

h1a8
Originally posted by ThePittman
Do you know anything about New Son? Based off of powers alone they would cancel each other out and "freezing" wouldn't do anything because New Sun has complete control over kinetic energy.

Yet that has nothing to do with his reflexes (which are peak human at best). FP iceman attacks are faster than he can comprehend. He can instantly freeze Gambit into a block of ice by instantly willing the air around him to freeze. Or simply shooting millions of ice spears and ice boulders(or mountains) at him in all directions at superspeed before he can react.

qqqqqqq
Originally posted by h1a8
Yet that has nothing to do with his reflexes (which are peak human at best). FP iceman attacks are faster than he can comprehend. He can instantly freeze Gambit into a block of ice by instantly willing the air around him to freeze. Or simply shooting millions of ice spears and ice boulders(or mountains) at him in all directions at superspeed before he can react. gambit powers are by thoughts or whaT?

Soleran
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Where was it stated he had complete control over kinetic energy, I tend not to avoid things that focus too much on Gambit. Was this a universal control of energy?


Here is a description of him.


http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/characters/showquestion.asp?fldAuto=748


I also believe he wiped out his universe learning to control his powers and was able to travel to 616 on his own command of his powers.

LOL New Son also killed his realities Phoenixsmile

ThePittman

superbatman86
Originally posted by Soljer
1. Having unlimited potential in one dimension doesn't mean you have unlimited power. The Hulk has unlimited strength, but versatility kills him. If a mutant's only power was to turn things blue, but he was Omega, I could still kill him with a rock.

Iceman can control all the water molecules in the universe if he so pleases, a being that controls all the kinetic energy will be superior. (Also note that it was only THEORIZED that Iceman worked on a kinetic energy level, it was CERTAIN with New Sun).

But anyways, if we are to assume that Iceman at full potential can control kinetic energy, then he wins this. If we are to assume that Iceman is still restricted to water, I'd give it to New Sun.

And, lastly, unlimited potential does not mean unlimited power! mad

I could kill the Omega-Turn-Things-Blue-Mutant with my bare hands. Just because he has 'no quantifiable limit' to his turn shit blue power, does NOT mean diddly squat. stick out tongue.

Okay, I lied, that wasn't last; this will be. Out of curiosity, how are we to be certain that Omega mutants DO have unlimited potential, anyways? Is it because professor X said so? I'm not so easily convinced. I mean....maybe to a primitive HUMAN mind, there is no real limit to the potential, but on a cosmic scale? How unlimited is unlimited? Could full potential Iceman mess around with water molecules if...say...the LIVING TRIBUNAL judged that he shouldn't?

erm. Uh Iceman HAS to control kinetic energy or else he couldn't be able to affect the temperature around him.

my2cents
Iceman FTW

Soleran
The day IM controls kinetic energy like New Son and can time travel and work on remaking universe's I'll vote for him, until then New Sonwrecks him.

Soljer
Originally posted by superbatman86
Uh Iceman HAS to control kinetic energy or else he couldn't be able to affect the temperature around him.

What the f**k?

Not true. Not in the least.

That's like saying that ICE controls kinetic energy, because it acts as a heat sink.

By extension, that's like saying that _I_ control kinetic energy because I can arrange ice cubes.

There is a difference between being able to AFFECT kinetic energy, and being able to control it directly.

xmarksthespot
Remaking universes? messed

Can somebody who read this Gambit series tell me when and in what manner he did this?

ThePittman

ThePittman
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Remaking universes? messed

Can somebody who read this Gambit series tell me when and in what manner he did this? I plan on getting these issues this weekend if I can; this was during my non collecting time. If I get them I post the scans, from what I know is what I have seen posted and read about on the net.

Soleran
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Remaking universes? messed

Can somebody who read this Gambit series tell me when and in what manner he did this?

I said work on remaking universes then New Son goofed and entered into a time travel.

New Son destroyed his universe's Phoenix also apparently eek!

753
Yup, new sun wins.

BlackZero30x
Originally posted by Soleran
I said work on remaking universes then New Son goofed and entered into a time travel.

New Son destroyed his universe's Phoenix also apparently eek!

Indeed....in fact it never came out and said it but the artwork made it look as if he beat apoc as well

@753

im currently getting you that scan.

iceman24567
New Sun wins a big cold pimp slap

BlackZero30x
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt240/ScarletSpeed/Gambits_024_008.jpg

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt240/ScarletSpeed/Gambits_024_009.jpg

here's the scans showing new son was created via magical amp.

StyleTime
It's been years since I read that arc, but I am like 99% sure that the magic only started a chain reaction that blew the planet up. The powers were still inherent to Gambit. He wasn't amped in the conventional sense.

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