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The Battle of two of the strongest Sith shall begin!

In the halls of the sacred Jedi Temple, Darth Revan and Darth Sidious confront each other. They ignite their lightsabers and call the power of the Dark Side to aid their cause. That cause: to defeat the other and call mastership.

Which Dark Lord will win?

Revan, if he can kill him before Saber Combat, he probably wins in terms of Force Powers, in Lightsaber, he has a chance

firstly exar is above revan or prehaps equally as strong.
sidious wins revan goes down

What does exar have to with Revan and Sidious?

exar is stronger than revan, so its not "the most 2 powerful sith" more of "the strongest sith palpatine" vs "revan"

Exar is weaker then Revan, Path of Destruction showed this.

Palpatine demolishes Revan.

First of all, I said "two OF THE strongest Sith" NOT "the two strongest Sith". Learn English my friend.

Second, how about it's ROTS Sidious not DE Sidious, since DE Sids > Revan for sure.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Second, how about it's ROTS Sidious not DE Sidious, since DE Sids > Revan for sure.

Not really, not in a real fight, DE Sidious' leetness only came from Force Storm, and good luck using that on someone that isn't Miles away

And his mastering every sith or Jedi technique, and his speed, and his sheer force powers....

Well if you guys believe Revan is on level with DE Sidious, then go ahead....talk.

Or, you guys can assume ROTS Sidious.

Whatever, discuss.

Sidious, but it's close.

Sidious is probably the only sith stronger than Revan. Since this is ROTS Sidious I'd give the fight to either one of them. If it was DE Sidious then he would definitely win.

DE Siidous > Revan > ROTS Sidious. Revan is alot closer to DE Sidious than he is to ROTS Sidious. IMO Revan might be able to take DE Sidious, I know Sidious is the top Sith but that doesn't necessairly mean he's ther storngest in a fight, it could also be because he has wicked manipulation abilities and is a master strategiest, which won't help him much in a one on one fight. But he could probably beat Revan.

What puts Revan above ROTS Sidious now? Everything Revan was said to have, Palp would've had from first hand experience

Originally posted by Lightsnake
What puts Revan above ROTS Sidious now? Everything Revan was said to have, Palp would've had from first hand experience
You're assuming Revan didn't learn from the ancients while on Korriban or Malachor. Because Sidious learned from the ancients, he's suddenly going to slaughter Revan? Please..

One is proven, the other is total conjecture. The Ancients didn't pop out to aid everyone who came knocking, Sidious literally summoned them

Well so did Revan. Otherwise he made up the abilities, or he accessed a bunch of holocrons and recieved a good deal of Sith powers.

And conjectures is what we have. Revan is not an unknown, and he taugh Bane all his super-powers. Revan obviously knows them. Where did he get it? Probably from the ancients.

He got the Holocrons or he summoned them up, there is a MAJOR difference...And made them up? Unsupported

And yet again, nothing suggest Sidious is going to come close to curbstomping Revan

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He got the Holocrons or he summoned them up, there is a MAJOR difference...And made them up? Unsupported

Again where does it say he summoned Ancient Sith? Sidious had to of known these powers in ROTJ, waiting for about 20 years would more likely than not weaken you, not strengthen you


As to Revan, I think Kreia's description of Revan"Looking into his eyes was like looking into the Heart of The Force" was more literal than not, he might very well be past any Sith, including Sidious

Oh, right, so why don't we take that Palpatine was 'darkness beyond darkness' literally? Or the numerous metaphors in relation to him...The devouring Darkness in the Force, the antithesis of light....

And again: It shows him summoning them in Visioaries and confirms him in the Visual Guide. Clear enough?

lightsnake, your irrelevant quotes don't exactly state how Sidious is going to curbstomp Revan.

Lol.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oh, right, so why don't we take that Palpatine was 'darkness beyond darkness' literally? Or the numerous metaphors in relation to him...The devouring Darkness in the Force, the antithesis of light....

And again: It shows him summoning them in Visioaries and confirms him in the Visual Guide. Clear enough?

Darkness beyond Darkness? That doesn't mean POWER, that means he's Evil which he was, Revan was not. The Exile was considered "The Death of the Force" because she had been cut from it, and could possibly kill the Force. All those things describe how Evil he was.

Heart of The Force is a symbol of power, Heart=What Pumps the life through you, put that into Force Terms, what keeps the Force Alive, what gives the Jedi power, who knows

Could you provide a link?

Oh, so heart of the force means power? Could it just mean he was a great Jedi, which he was? Darkness beyond darkness would mean Palpatine has dark powers greater than any other, think of that?

Hypocrisy, thanks. how about a 'titan' or 'divinity' in regards to power?

And can I provide a link to printed sources when you could go to the store, open up a book and read? No, I gave you the source, do the rest.

for the millionth time lightsnake, stick to relevant posts. "Guy X was blah blah and blah" does NOT illustrate his power compared to guy Y, and how guy X is going to defeat guy Y.

I know that, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy with him

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oh, so heart of the force means power? Could it just mean he was a great Jedi, which he was? Darkness beyond darkness would mean Palpatine has dark powers greater than any other, think of that?

Hypocrisy, thanks. how about a 'titan' or 'divinity' in regards to power?

And can I provide a link to printed sources when you could go to the store, open up a book and read? No, I gave you the source, do the rest.

Heart of The Force would = Powerful

Break it down, Heart=Pumps blood(life) through the body, Force=Body

Think about it, if Kreia was just saying he was a "Great Jedi" she would have said so, or something closer to it, like "Champion of the Force" would be closer, Heart of The Force implies a lot of power by the name alone

"Darkness beyond Darkness" how does that imply he has Dark Powers beyond every other Dark Lord? Darkness = Evil, and always has, not Power.

Funny how you accuse me of Hypocrisy when you do the same exact thing, hmmm

What a way to win a debate "Go down to the Store and Read a Book! Instead of trying to find a Link online, I'm going to have you go to the store to win an online Arguement!"

heart of the force = powerful?
sidious = the dark side of the force

I don't see how Revan can take this fight, givin the uber leetness of Palpatine. Revan was good, as we now know (much better then we thought) but he's still no Palpatine. (DE Palpatine anyways)

Kreiger: Is it my job to scan in the book for you? No. It's in the book, just like Kas'im's martial prowess in PoD

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Kreiger: Is it my job to scan in the book for you? No. It's in the book, just like Kas'im's martial prowess in PoD

no You had all of last night and today, and did not look for Proof to back that up?

Here's my proof: The Ultimate Visual Guide.

Now, you can find it. Kthx

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Here's my proof: The Ultimate Visual Guide.

Now, you can find it. Kthx

You don't know how to debate do you? You don't have 1 side find both sets of Proof....

Until I see proof of that from YOU, that won't be counted, Revan had a much larger archive of Holocrons, as over what 2000 years, you're going to lose a few, and it's safe to assume he knew everything Bane did, as that's where Bane learned them from

Oh, give me a break...you're too lazy to open a book of something that doesn't exist on the internet, so it's my fault?

Ok, show me a link of Revan owning a Holocron. Prove he had an archive, too.

Well there's no proof Revan had an "archive" persay, but he did write books, as illustrated in POD, and he did create his holocron.

My point example: Where're the links? All he can tell me is to go read PoD

Darth Kreigur, here's the beginning of the story that Lightsnake is talking about in Visionaries (http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=176&page=045), and he summons them here - (http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=176&page=050).

ok what to know something? palpatine showed us how powerful he is, revan did not, only bane did,

Originally posted by Kas'Im
Darth Kreigur, here's the beginning of the story that Lightsnake is talking about in Visionaries (http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=176&page=045), and he summons them here - (http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=176&page=050).

Not a single person has gotton my name right.....

Thanks for the links, but I'd prefer Words, not pictures.

We did see what Bane did, Revan is where he learned that from, that allows us to easily assume Revan > Bane

and did revan use them as much as sidious uses lightning? no,

and just because revan was the one who created it doesnt mean hes better than bane whom did it on super scales, bane > revan

so does that mean that plagueis > sidious because plagueis taught him?

Prove where he learned it from. Bane learned everytihng Revan knew...just because Revan knew the knowledge first doesn't mean Bane didn't take it to other levels

I assume you have a link proving this now

well, if plagueis really knew how to cheat death, then yea he is better than Palps...i say this only cause we don't know the extent of that power. If he could use it in battle, he'd be virtually unstoppable. The fact that Palps killed him by surprise in his sleep is probably why he couldn't save himself. We don't know anything else about Plagueis...he could have been uber powerful. But on the flip side, just cause someone teaches you something doesn't mean that you;ll never be better than them. If that were the case, our technology would never get better. I don't see why Sidious cant take this.

ROTS Sidious, yes he wins.

Against DE Sidious, not quite.

Originally posted by zephiel7
ROTS Sidious, yes he wins.

Against DE Sidious, not quite.

But there arn't really any deadly Powers Sidious can use that won't affect himself. So Revan can very well take this

ROTS sidious is already considered one of the most powerful sith lords, DE sidious is only better due to him having free time reading books and holocrons mastering more techniques, ROTS and DE palpatine power levels are frankly the same, just by DE he learnt more stuff

ROTS sidious > revan

I don't think so. ROTS Sidious and DE Sidious are not frankly the same. There is a noticable difference between the two personalities. DE Sidious I will admit can defeat Revan. However, the movies, which chronicles the power of Palpatine/Emperor, shows that his Force abilities are:

- Force Lightning

- Force Whirlwind

- Force Pull

- Force Push

Now Revan, from Path of Destruction, is shown to be a master of the Dark Side. He knows obviously knows to rule and know power. Bane becomes uber cuz of him. In terms of the saber, ROTS Sidious is greater, even though Revan must be quite impressive himself. In addition, in the Force, Revan wil win.




This is ridiculous! Revan must have spent years perfectly his Dark Side techniques. He is the Heart of the Force. If that doesn't mean powerful to you, then you are quite idiotic.

You can't say Bane does it on super scales, and say Revan doesn't. That is an illogical assumption. Your analogy is stupid is well. Yes, Plageuis is weaker than Sidious. Thus, I could say Mace Windu < Depa Billaba because Mace taught Depa.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
I don't think so. ROTS Sidious and DE Sidious are not frankly the same. There is a noticable difference between the two personalities. DE Sidious I will admit can defeat Revan. However, the movies, which chronicles the power of Palpatine/Emperor, shows that his Force abilities are:

- Force Lightning

- Force Whirlwind

- Force Pull

- Force Push

Now Revan, from Path of Destruction, is shown to be a master of the Dark Side. He knows obviously knows to rule and know power. Bane becomes uber cuz of him. In terms of the saber, ROTS Sidious is greater, even though Revan must be quite impressive himself. In addition, in the Force, Revan wil win.
He imparts knowledge, not power, actually. How long's he studied the Ds for? Oh, right...four years? How long has Palpatine? Oh, right, five decades? And Palpatine>Revan with the Force...c'mon, what's Revan shown us? Even Palpatine's force lightning and force crush will destroy Revan




No, he didn't. He had four years. Palpatine is Darkness beyond Darkness and a Divinity in the Dark Side. If that doesn't mean power to you, than you're an idiot

Except we see Bane do it in a far more impressive manner. He got the knowledge from Revan, the power was his own.

So what if Palpatine has decades compared to half a decade Revan had? Dooku has been mastering the saber and Force for eight decades, Anakin pefected himself in three years. Guess who wins, Anakin!

Yeah right, Palps Force Lightning CANNOT destroy Revan. Revan has been shown to impart powerful DS techniques to Bane. This means that KOTOR DS Side could actually been some of the moves Revan knew during his tenure as the DLOTS. Revan is much stronger to lose to a Force Crush.



Where does it say Palps is a Darkness beyond Darknes...

Revan is Heart of the Force. I would Heart of the Force > Divinity of Darkness.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Revan is Heart of the Force. I would Heart of the Force > Divinity of Darkness.

No, Revan - according to Kreia - is the "Heart of the Force". Ambiguous quotes like that have no relevance over fights, so it doesn't really matter. And for all you know, what Kreia said was an aggrandizement, which amounts to jack shit on the grand scale of things (not that a quote by a fallible, third party character even matters).

In any case, when has she ever even seen the "Heart of the Force"? And prove the "Heart of the Force" means "power". Is the "Heart of the Force" actually power? Have we ever even seen it? Could it mean in spirit? And again, it could've simply been aggrandizing description. Basically an over exaggeration.

show me one powerful technique Revan imparted to Bane. Just one. Thought Bomb isn't a technique, it's a suicidal ritual. PRove Revan's too strong to lose to a Force Crush.

Fanboyism much? I think so

Since when does Palpatine have force crush? What kind of idiotic statement is this lightsnake? "Prove Revan won't die with force crush". Uh prove that Sidious has it, and that he could use it on anybody. Guess what, guy X can't use anything on guy Y, it doesn't work that way. Prove Sidious could withstand a force storm from Revan. Stop parading around Sidious' force abilities asking someone to prove they can withstand attack X. This isn't an argument.

he;s throwing idiotic statements over the place, I'm throwing his hypocrisy back at him.

And Palpatine uses Force Crush on Sedriss to force him into servitude

Originally posted by Lightsnake
he;s throwing idiotic statements over the place, I'm throwing his hypocrisy back at him.

And Palpatine uses Force Crush on Sedriss to force him into servitude

You do realise Force Crush = Kill, right?

Anycrap, Advent, the backup for Heart of the Force meaning Power, is the crap Bane learned from Revan.

And as to Revan learning the Dark Side in only 4 Years, want to know where he went to learn? Unknown Space, the Remains of the Sith Empire, and the Starforge, all created by the most powerful people. I'd assume you'd learn a LOT more there in 4 Years, than Palps from any Holocrons/by himself

Oh, how about all the crap Vader and Luke learned from Palpatine?

and Palpatine went to the Sith Empire, too. In fact, Palpatine learned directly from the Ancient Sith and Plagueis. That's above anything Revan could hope to achieve

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oh, how about all the crap Vader and Luke learned from Palpatine?

and Palpatine went to the Sith Empire, too. In fact, Palpatine learned directly from the Ancient Sith and Plagueis. That's above anything Revan could hope to achieve


Umm what?

This is your point crumbling around you.

Bane learns from revan...so heart of the Force= Power?

mmmhmm

Originally posted by Lightsnake
This is your point crumbling around you.

Bane learns from revan...so heart of the Force= Power?

mmmhmm

It is?

Bane's POWERS were the point of my debate, he did not become uber until he learned from Revan's Holocron

THEREFORE, from that, I said Kreia was more likely than not being literal about Heart of The Force.

Where the hell are you pulling this random shit from?

No, he was uber WELL before that. He owned Sirak and Fohargh readily enough and Qordis was terrified of him.

And Kreia's quote is still a metaphor, it won't be literal just because you want it to be

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No, he was uber WELL before that. He owned Sirak and Fohargh readily enough and Qordis was terrified of him.

And Kreia's quote is still a metaphor, it won't be literal just because you want it to be

He wasn't Collapsing Rooves and whatnot before he found Revan

I have Evidence backing it up that it is literal, you're just spewing random stuff around

he never had a reason to, anyways, your point.

And no, you have nothing but a single quote heavily outweighed by Palpatine's own. Is Revan a divinity or a titan? Palpatine is. Must be literal.

You have stupid hypocrisy, that's all your argument is

'Heart of the Force' clearly translates into great strength in The Force.
Think of the Exile, we all know that she was a hole in The Force, and Kreia describes looking into her eyes as looking into The Death of the Force.
In other words, Kreia sensed the lack of the force in the Exile, and thus described her as the death of the force, as she was living proof that the force could be destroyed.
Now by describing looking into Revan's eyes as looking into The Heart of the Force, the most likely explanation is that he has the greatest force presence and was the strongest in the force that she had ever met.

Even if it translates great strength in the force, Palpatine is said to be THE Darkside himself.. Kinda beats out the 1st one. Now as a Jedi, Revan COULD be more powerful than Sidious or Sidious' equal.

Since Sidious is Yoda's equal at his worst and Yoda is above Revan, I doubt that

Oh yes, I know. I was just stating that Revan being described as such probably translates into that.



Oh I doubt that.



Yoda's above Revan? Since when?

Since the ROTS novelization confirmed him as the strongest Jedi? Or logic since Yoda's shown far more than Revan?

Quote please. Or at least supply the page number.

And what has Yoda shown, really.

Yoda has...dismantled droid armies, has had 'legion' of triumphs over the Dark Side, his ability to bind the Dark Side alone, lifted the temple of Ilum, blocked force lightning with his bare hands...

"He, the fiercest, strongest, most implacable foe the darkness had ever known.' Btw, and his direct reference to the most powerful Jedi the Order had produced in the AOTC novel....Dark Rendevous, too

Lightsnake nobody is arguing about this novelization, but what makes you think that it's not possible Revan could have been just as strong as Yoda? I don't know if this quote included EU but even if it didn't, it's possible that judging by Revan's path, he might have been as strong as Yoda, at his peak.

Why wouldn't it be? The novelization is a G-canon source, meaning it overwrites C-canon. Plus the novelization incorporates many Eu elements.

Many? So you can't tell me for a fact which elements those are? So for all you know, Revan could be stronger than Yoda? In fact I only saw one source calling Sidious the most powerful sith lord. How do you know this includes all of the EU?

Why wouldn't it? In an EU source, if it says one thing, then that's what it is. Why wouldn't it include all of the EU? It's not a pick and choose.

In the ROTS novelization-and I've told you this before- we have Ventress, Boz Pity, Saluecami, Haruun Kal, Vaapad, Darth Bane, Grievous's crimes, among others...it's also G-canon, meaning it's a higher level than another EU source

Actually Novelizations arn't G-Canon, as they interfere with the movies. Oh and btw, the only G-Canon is stuff created by Lucas.



Lightsnake, you are terrible at debating, you accuse me of Hypocracy, but you are the only one practicing it.

Another thing "he never had a reason to" has to be the WORST point I've ever heard spoken.

Actually, novelizations are g-canon and are approved by GL rather personally. You override the canon policy now?

Oh, and when would Bane be collapsing temples when he was at Korriban? Does that mean we should discount yoda's saber skills because he never uses them at Dagobah? Maybe because Mace doesn't periodically sue Vaapad to slaughter bystanders he's weaker?

Bane happened to use the move when he actually HAD to, what's your point?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Actually, novelizations are g-canon and are approved by GL rather personally. You override the canon policy now?

Oh, and when would Bane be collapsing temples when he was at Korriban? Does that mean we should discount yoda's saber skills because he never uses them at Dagobah? Maybe because Mace doesn't periodically sue Vaapad to slaughter bystanders he's weaker?

Bane happened to use the move when he actually HAD to, what's your point?

So despite the MASSIVE contradictions inside them, you say they're G-Canon, they're not.

And the rest is you spewing out random shit.....you arn't making any point, at all

No, the canon policy says they're G-canon and since the part is non-contradictory and approved bvy Lucas...

Just looked that up, either way, there are several things in them that Contradict the Movies, Events that did not happen, lines spoken, etc etc etc.

And the things I refer to have no contradictions whatsoever. Anything that doesn't contradict the movie is fine

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And the things I refer to have no contradictions whatsoever. Anything that doesn't contradict the movie is fine

So the only Canon parts of the Novelizations are those that don't Contradict? You don't make any sense

What's nonsensical about that?

if a part contradicts the whole book contradicts

Originally posted by Lightsnake
What's nonsensical about that?

Because you are calling the Novelizations Non-Canon now because they Contradict the Movies, and only saying PARTS are true.

revan wins sidious wins..........



fuget about it

Ummm....no. Parts contradict, but it's still a g-canon source and thus can well be used.
You're forgetting Lucas oes over and contributes to these. Hell, Darth Bane was first created in the TPM novelization

edit - nvm

well im not taking sides here at all, but novels are canon, UNLESS the movies contradict a certain part. So we can take the novel as canon which most of it is, but anything in the movie that deals with the same topic, is higher canon. So yes, essentially you can say parts of the novel are canon. Like TPM novel says that Maul does a back flip when fighting one on one with Qui Gon, but it didnt happen in the movie, so it didn't happen. But the fight, which obviously appeared in both, did happen.

I have to think Revan would win, for me he was a better Swordsman and had more knowledge of the force. But if Im wrong I dont mindstarwars

hanharr shows after their force is depleted and starts smackinem arond

Hanharr>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Chewbacca

Yeah right, Chewie is the best wookie. Revan still wins though. However, keep on debating.

You're quite a spammer aren't you.

Sorry just a very bead joke

Yeah, but it's all right. Just give your debate of who's better in the featured opponents.

So does Revan win????????

I'd still say Sidious.

Well I am not so sure either.