Who can dodge bullets?

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Darth Martin
This was inspired by the Scoobless thread. So who can dodge bullets? Can any street-levelers do it succesfully? List em. Explain why you think they can or cannot if you like.

Dreampanther
I think it would help if we could figure out if Captain America can dodge bullets - because as far as I know, he is peak human, but not super human. Therefore, if he cannot dodge bullets, it would make sense that none of the other characters, no matter how good they are, would not be able to dodge bullets either - unless they can get enhanced, like Black Panther when he drinks that magic potion stuff.

So really, the question for me, is: Can Captain America dodge bullets?

Unfortunately, I don't have many Captain America comics, so I can't answer that question...

Endless Mike
Spider-man can.

Dreampanther
Yeah, but we already know that - and he is definitely no mere street-level character!

Alfheim
Originally posted by Dreampanther
I think it would help if we could figure out if Captain America can dodge bullets - because as far as I know, he is peak human, but not super human. Therefore, if he cannot dodge bullets, it would make sense that none of the other characters, no matter how good they are, would not be able to dodge bullets either - unless they can get enhanced, like Black Panther when he drinks that magic potion stuff.

So really, the question for me, is: Can Captain America dodge bullets?

Unfortunately, I don't have many Captain America comics, so I can't answer that question...

Remember Captain America can be considered to be enhanced as well.

Kang

While Kang does not possess super-human abilities per se, he appears to be on a strength and endurance level roughly similar to Captain America, as he is able to take him on in a fairly evenly matched battle- this suggests at least some enhancement.

Kang's profile implies that Cap has enhanced stats and not only that, if it says Kang has at least some enhancement, that means if enhanced is a level Cap is not on the bottom end of it!

When Cap's bio says Cap is as powerful as a human can be without being sueprhuman they can mean exactly that. For exammple 3 tons is minium superhuman strength. Cap can lift a ton, but he could lift 2 under extreme duress.

The same goes for reflexes but it is harder to quantify.

I read in one Marvel RPG, that Cap could dodge one bullet but not multiple, but I have only read this in one place.

Dreampanther
Ah, OK - as I said, I don't really have enough Captain America comics to be able to say with conviction what he can and cannot do - that's why I base my suppositions on his bio smile

I still think he would be considered a better measuring staff than for instance Spiderman or Wolverine, as if it can be proven that Captain America cannot dodge bullets, then I think we would be able to say with some conviction that NONE of the other street level characters would be able to dodge bullets, either.

If somebody CAN prove that Cap can dodge bullets, however, we are back to square one, I guess... roll eyes (sarcastic)

marvelprince
I don't have any scans or anything, but as far as I know Cap can't dodge bullets. I've seen him shot (his chain mail protects him) so I don't think he can dodge. I know he mentioned before that he sees things in s sort of slow mo, but its not to the extent of Spider-man. I have not seen him demonstrate he's fast enough to dodge bullets after they've been fired

Alfheim
Originally posted by Dreampanther


I still think he would be considered a better measuring staff than for instance Spiderman or Wolverine,

What are you saying that Wolverine has better relexes than Cap, as far as im concerned Wolverine's in general is slightly slower. Im not even entirely convinced that Spiderman can either

Originally posted by Dreampanther


If somebody CAN prove that Cap can dodge bullets, however, we are back to square one, I guess... roll eyes (sarcastic)

Sorry cant help. All I can say is that Cap is The Mighty Thor of street levellers. Eventhough Cap is not as fast as Spiderman he has some reflex feats not far off. This link might help.

http://herochat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=100779

Dreampanther
Well, then I would suppose that Cap forms more or less the border between those who can and those who can't dodge bullets - because as far as I know, Batman is more or less on the same level as Cap, and between those two they have taken out a LOT of street level characters, so I would argue that nobody below their level would be able to dodge bullets, either.

So who would form the bottom level of those who CAN dodge bullets? Can Black Panther dodge bullets? I have never heard of him dodging bullets, but I don't have a lot of Black Panther comics. I have become half-convinced that Wolverine MIGHT be able to dodge bullets, but I am not sure everybody would agree.

Anybody else, you guys can think of, somewhere below Spiderman's level, more or less Wolverine's level, maybe just a bit higher than Captain America's level?

I know for a fact that Daredevil can't dodge bullets, as he has admitted it himself.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Dreampanther
Wolverine MIGHT be able to dodge bullets, but I am not sure everybody would agree.

Anybody else, you guys can think of, somewhere below Spiderman's level, more or less Wolverine's level, maybe just a bit higher than Captain America's level?



No I cant, but Wolverine does not have better reflexes than Cap, the same maybe but not better.

Dreampanther
Originally posted by Alfheim
What are you saying that Wolverine has better relexes than Cap, as far as im concerned Wolverine's in general is slightly slower. Im not even entirely convinced that Spiderman can either

http://herochat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=100779

I know I am sticking my head into a hornet's nest here, but yes, that is EXACTLY what I have come to believe: That Wolverine has better reflexes than Cap. I cited Wikipedia as my source, in the thread Scoobless started, to support my argument, but I will quote it my argument here again:

"I have to admit, according to Wikipedia, Wolverine has "Superhumanly acute senses, Superhuman stamina, agility, and reflexes", which I do believe will support the argument that Wolverine might just be categorised as a "bullet-dodger", especially in conjunction with his martial arts training, which, as I have stated earlier, was proven by National Geographic to enhance even normal human beings' reflexes to an astonishing degree.

Here is a quote from Wiki: "Wolverine has also demonstrated that his agility and reflexes are also enhanced to levels that are beyond the human body's natural limits, displayed by dodging Cyclops' optic energy beams at point blank range in Wolverine: Origins #5."

Now while I am not stating that Wiki is the ultimate source of knowledge on all matters comics-related, I do believe there is enough evidence to support the argument that Wolverine might be able to dodge bullets, even while we would all agree, I am sure, that he is not quite in Spiderman's class of speed and agility.

I know that Wolverine is the cause of a lot of controversy in these forums, but while I do not wish to exaggerate his stature even more than it has already been, nor do I wish to take away from him what he has earned and rightfully deserve.

Therefore, unless somebody can PROVE that Wolverine can NOT dodge bullets, I am going to go out on a limb here and argue that yes, it is feasible that Wolverine might be able to dodge bullets."

Alfheim
Originally posted by Dreampanther

"I have to admit, according to Wikipedia, Wolverine has "Superhumanly acute senses, Superhuman stamina, agility, and reflexes", which I do believe will support the argument that Wolverine might just be categorised as a "bullet-dodger", especially in conjunction with his martial arts training, which, as I have stated earlier, was proven by National Geographic to enhance even normal human beings' reflexes to an astonishing degree.

It doesnt work like that , but I see what you mean. Spiderman really should be bullet proof because a persons strength is usually equivalent to durability. Spiderman can lift the back end of train, he should be bulletproof but hes not. Captain America really should have enhaced senses as well, he was able to detect he was going to get ambushed by a shift in the breeze.

Originally posted by Dreampanther

Here is a quote from Wiki: "Wolverine has also demonstrated that his agility and reflexes are also enhanced to levels that are beyond the human body's natural limits, displayed by dodging Cyclops' optic energy beams at point blank range in Wolverine: Origins #5."


Cap has dodged lasers in zero gravity. I think Origins was bad writing. Wolverine is not stupid but he should not have been able to beat Cap like that. Also Cap was behaving like Wolverine and Wolverine was behaving like Cap. Cap is usually the calm one not Wolverine. Dodging Cyclops optic blast just proves he is faster than Cyclops.

Originally posted by Dreampanther

Now while I am not stating that Wiki is the ultimate source of knowledge on all matters comics-related, I do believe there is enough evidence to support the argument that Wolverine might be able to dodge bullets, even while we would all agree, I am sure, that he is not quite in Spiderman's class of speed and agility.

I know that Wolverine is the cause of a lot of controversy in these forums, but while I do not wish to exaggerate his stature even more than it has already been, nor do I wish to take away from him what he has earned and rightfully deserve.

Therefore, unless somebody can PROVE that Wolverine can NOT dodge bullets, I am going to go out on a limb here and argue that yes, it is feasible that Wolverine might be able to dodge bullets."

Sorry theres not enough evidence to support that. Furthermore both DD and Cap tend to better when they fight Spiderman, Wolverine usually gets chumped;

jrodslam
Daredevil can dodge bullets.

juggernaut66666
Taskmaster can catch them

Alfheim
Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Taskmaster can catch them

I dont think he can do that anymore. He had powers given to him by the Albino, but he does not ahve them anymore.

juggernaut66666
Originally posted by Alfheim
I dont think he can do that anymore. He had powers given to him by the Albino, but he does not ahve them anymore.
he copied a movement not a power

Alfheim
Originally posted by juggernaut66666
he copied a movement not a power

The movement was a power because you need to have superhuman reflexes to catch a bullet no amount of training will teach you how to do it if you are peak human.

Dreampanther
Originally posted by jrodslam
Daredevil can dodge bullets.

No, he can't - not Ultimate DD, anyway - see the scans posted where he admits it himself, as Punisher is shooting at him, and deliberately missing, in Ultimate Team-Up. Can't remember the issue, but here is the link http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=424776&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=3

Sam Z
Originally posted by jrodslam
Daredevil can dodge bullets.
Daredevil himself said that he can't...

Alfheim
Originally posted by Dreampanther
No, he can't - not Ultimate DD, anyway - see the scans posted where he admits it himself, as Punisher is shooting at him, and deliberately missing, in Ultimate Team-Up. Can't remember the issue, but here is the link http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=424776&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=3

Well if you are comparing Ultimate to the mainstream this does not count. For example Ultimate Cap is stronger and not a good fighter as the mainstream Cap, also Ultimate Wolverine is not as durable as the mainstream Wolverine.

If street levllers can actually dodge bullets after they have been fired I dont have a problem. The MU is a diferent reality to this one, bare in mind the human race has been experimented on by the Celestials, so human beings in the MU are different.

Dreampanther
Originally posted by Alfheim
Cap has dodged lasers in zero gravity. I think Origins was bad writing. Wolverine is not stupid but he should not have been able to beat Cap like that. Also Cap was behaving like Wolverine and Wolverine was behaving like Cap. Cap is usually the calm one not Wolverine. Dodging Cyclops optic blast just proves he is faster than Cyclops.

Do you have any scans of that? I am not arguing with you, as I said, I don't have many Cap comics, therefore I cannot really argue convincingly either for or against him. I do have scans of DD (Ultimate DD) admitting he cannot dodge bullets, therefore I know he can be disqualified.

As for Wolverine, as I stated, I am citing Wikipedia as my source, which while it did not CONVINCE me that he can dodge bullets, it did make me consider the argument in a more favourable light. And I haven't read Origins yet, I was halfway through when I found out I didn't have all the issues, so I am waiting until I get everything before I continue.

But I'd like to see some scans of Cap's feats - is there a Respect thread for him?

Dreampanther
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well if you are comparing Ultimate to the mainstream this does not count. For example Ultimate Cap is stronger and not a good fighter as the mainstream Cap, also Ultimate Wolverine is not as durable as the mainstream Wolverine.


Are you saying Ultimate DD is slower than mainstream DD? I am a bit far from civilisation (read Africa stick out tongue ) so I get my comics very irregularly, and they are VERY expensive, because everything has to be imported, therefore I did not think there was much difference between Ultimate DD and mainstream DD.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Dreampanther
No, he can't - not Ultimate DD, anyway - see the scans posted where he admits it himself, as Punisher is shooting at him, and deliberately missing, in Ultimate Team-Up. Can't remember the issue, but here is the link http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=424776&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=3

Id assume that Ultimate DD isnt as skilled as 616 DD then. I dont have many Ultimate DD appearances, but 616 DD has made it clear that he sees the bullets while they are already fired as they cut throught the air which makes it easy to dodge between the bullets.

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/6085/ddandbulletsex4.th.png

Gotta love that radar.

jrodslam
Couple of other examples.

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7479/daredevil27216we6.th.jpg

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/4691/daredevil19806xr7.th.jpg

inamilist
comics arent reality folks

any hero CAN dodge bullets, and for the most part, guns are useless (underpowered?) in comics.

Put this into the real world, and no, most of the heros listed couldn't dodge (in the traditional sense) a bullet that reacts according to the known laws of physics.

That also means that catching or deflecting or any of that stuff is bogus as well.

However, comics, not reality, so it really doesnt matter.

Who wants to read a book about a sniper capping Batman with a headshot from over a mile away? nobody, because its lame. If captain america got shot up by a REAL soldier with REAL skills with a m4 or whatever, it wouldn't be the comic you want to read.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Alfheim
The movement was a power because you need to have superhuman reflexes to catch a bullet no amount of training will teach you how to do it if you are peak human.

Except for the fact that it's Taskmaster. He was able to move twice as fast the human body allowed, just by tweaking his training technique a bit. He can catch bullets if he wants.

manjaro
What? DD cant dodge bullets? R U f ****ing insane?..look here ppl. when it comes to dodging projectiles DD is the boss of all f ****ing bosses. i dont know about ulitmate DD but with 616 if there is something to dodge, catch or swat out of mid air he's your guy trust me> P.S i was gonna save this for scoob's thread but here is as good as any place

manjaro
get that shit outta here

manjaro
3

manjaro
dodging tank fire

manjaro
doing his thing

manjaro
bleh

manjaro
dodging something fired by bullseye...yeah that bullseye

manjaro
yeah that bullseye

manjaro
multiple arrows are nothing either

manjaro
multiple speary things are nothing

Alfheim
Originally posted by Dreampanther
Do you have any scans of that? I am not arguing with you, as I said, I don't have many Cap comics, therefore I cannot really argue convincingly either for or against him. I do have scans of DD (Ultimate DD) admitting he cannot dodge bullets, therefore I know he can be disqualified.

As for Wolverine, as I stated, I am citing Wikipedia as my source, which while it did not CONVINCE me that he can dodge bullets, it did make me consider the argument in a more favourable light. And I haven't read Origins yet, I was halfway through when I found out I didn't have all the issues, so I am waiting until I get everything before I continue.

But I'd like to see some scans of Cap's feats - is there a Respect thread for him?

Yeah theres a Captain America respect thread. Click on this link below.

http://herochat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=100779


Originally posted by Dreampanther
Are you saying Ultimate DD is slower than mainstream DD? I am a bit far from civilisation (read Africa stick out tongue ) so I get my comics very irregularly, and they are VERY expensive, because everything has to be imported, therefore I did not think there was much difference between Ultimate DD and mainstream DD.

Well I was saying that some Ultimate characters are either stronger or weaker than there mainstream counterparts. According to what jordlsam showed in his scans the mainstream DD can dodge bullets.


Originally posted by Metalmanx
Except for the fact that it's Taskmaster. He was able to move twice as fast the human body allowed, just by tweaking his training technique a bit. He can catch bullets if he wants.

Ok but dont complain next time a street leveller is able to hurt Spiderman and fool spider man senses.

manjaro
oh where was i? ah yes DD playing baseball with bullets...get that shit OUTTA HERE!!

manjaro
BATTER UP

manjaro
dodging more bullets

Alfheim
I've forgotten how cool DD is.

manjaro
machine gun who?

manjaro
machine gun Who? #2...im so fast i leave after images

Alfheim
Ok we get the point! LOL

manjaro
edit

Alfheim
HOLD HIM BACK!!!! DD FAN ON THE RAMPAGE!!!

manjaro
machine gun Who? #3

manjaro
ya darn rightbig grin im running on pure adrenaline now

ahem! machine gun Who? #4

manjaro
machine gun Who? #5

manjaro
last one for the road...so all you bow down to DD. ad suckel at his teet...the one nestled snuggly betwenn his legsbig grin BOW DOWN DAMN YOU!!

Soljer
As someone before me mentioned....almost ALL street-levellers can dodge bullets. In the comics, and, therefore, on the forums? Yeah, every last one of them can dodge bullets - Captain America has done it, Daredevil has (obviously) done it, Wolverine has done it, they've all done it too many times, and then did it again for good measure.

In real life, with their perscribed powers, SHOULD they be able to? Hell no! But, as the other poster mentioned, reality means shit-all here. Comics are what matters.

H. S. 6
Manjaro, learn how to upload images. You just spammed half a freakin thread with redundant images. erm

Validus
Originally posted by Soljer
As someone before me mentioned....almost ALL street-levellers can dodge bullets. In the comics, and, therefore, on the forums? Yeah, every last one of them can dodge bullets - Captain America has done it, Daredevil has (obviously) done it, Wolverine has done it, they've all done it too many times, and then did it again for good measure.

In real life, with their perscribed powers, SHOULD they be able to? Hell no! But, as the other poster mentioned, reality means shit-all here. Comics are what matters.
thumb up

Accel
Originally posted by Alfheim
I've forgotten how cool DD is.
He's the man. thumb up

King_Mungi
Classic Puck prior to his upgrade was dodging machine gun fire

1. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/A_Flight2/AlphaFlight23-10.jpg

Darth Martin
So do we all agree Deathstroke can dodge bullets?

manjaro
Originally posted by H. S. 6
Manjaro, learn how to upload images. You just spammed half a freakin thread with redundant images. erm

actually i rather prefer to post this way...that way no annoying pop ups from imageshack thats gonna send my anti-spyware app into over drive..yeah its old school but hey it beats pop ups

manjaro
Originally posted by Darth Martin
So do we all agree Deathstroke can dodge bullets?
yes, he's been dodging projectiles for quite some time now

Mindship
If DD's fast enough to dodge bullets, and bullets can be supersonic, how come he doesn't make a mini sonic boom when he moves?
blowup

Scoobless
Originally posted by manjaro
actually i rather prefer to post this way...that way no annoying pop ups from imageshack thats gonna send my anti-spyware app into over drive..yeah its old school but hey it beats pop ups

No it doesn't, your uploads are space consuming, badly edited and too small to make out the words

I've never had any pronblems with imageshack or any of the other free upload sites I've used and they are far superior to KMC's attach file option

Scoobless
Originally posted by Mindship
If DD's fast enough to dodge bullets, and bullets can be supersonic, how come he doesn't make a mini sonic boom when he moves?
blowup

Because he doesn't dodge bullets, he evades the aim of the person firing them

yes

Accel
Originally posted by Mindship
If DD's fast enough to dodge bullets, and bullets can be supersonic, how come he doesn't make a mini sonic boom when he moves?
blowup
Probably the same reason actual super-speedsters (Superman, Quicksilver, Wonder Woman, Orion, etc) don't do so when they dodge/catch/deflect bullets.

Writers don't dwell on that sort of stuff.

NiņoAraņa
Originally posted by Accel
Probably the same reason actual super-speedsters (Superman, Quicksilver, Wonder Woman, Orion, etc) don't do so when they dodge/catch/deflect bullets.

Writers don't dwell on that sort of stuff. wonder woman is a speedster? confused

Accel
Any one that can actually fly fast enough to create a sonic boom and deflect machine gun fire is a speedster in my mind, yes.

manjaro
Originally posted by NiņoAraņa
wonder woman is a speedster? confused
yes she is cuz in a JLA issue she, supes and flash ahd to search for somebody all over the world and she said somehing to the eefect of only we can move faster than human eyes can see and the all went in separate direxctions and she was actually running....also in the Trial by Fire arc , she and flash went to put out a forrest fire(J'onn cuased it but they didnt know that yet) and they had a foot race to the site

manjaro
Originally posted by Scoobless
No it doesn't, your uploads are space consuming, badly edited and too small to make out the words

I've never had any pronblems with imageshack or any of the other free upload sites I've used and they are far superior to KMC's attach file option


well....WELL YOURE JUST MAD CUZ YOU SAID DD COULDNT DODGE BULLEST SO THERE!!!!!! mad

but seriously tho whenever someone would do something like post an entire issue, and i click on it.... its like every other pic produces a pop up about party poker, find long lost school mates, or youve just won a free xbox

jrodslam
Originally posted by Scoobless
Because he doesn't dodge bullets, he evades the aim of the person firing them

yes

no

DD dodges bullets indeed.

long pig
Deathstroke can.

His reflexes are supersonic, he's sidestepped sunfires super-sonic blasts a couple times and she was amazed at how fast he is. She even said kid Flash couldn't do that.

long pig
Originally posted by jrodslam
no

DD dodges bullets indeed.
Not only does he dodge them, he has chased them down and punted them away from their target.

long pig
Originally posted by manjaro
yes she is cuz in a JLA issue she, supes and flash ahd to search for somebody all over the world and she said somehing to the eefect of only we can move faster than human eyes can see and the all went in separate direxctions and she was actually running....also in the Trial by Fire arc , she and flash went to put out a forrest fire(J'onn cuased it but they didnt know that yet) and they had a foot race to the site
Hahaha I have that comic and this is what happened:

Flash went to egypt, I think, Superman went to scotland or something and wonder woman....went to the park across the street.

Seriously, she went like a a quarter mile or something. lol

long pig
It looks like Superman said "I'll search in China!" Flash said "I'll search in Egypt" Wonder Woman said "I'll look behind this tree, here.".


http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/8830/jla033122em9ng.jpg

manjaro
yeah cuz she was running to whereever the hell she was going dudebig grin then why would superman say that then

Scoobless
He was just humouring her

stick out tongue

Accel
Originally posted by manjaro
yeah cuz she was running to whereever the hell she was going dudebig grin then why would superman say that then
When he said, "Only the speeds we can reach," he wsa referring to Flash and himself. WW was just standing in the background thinking "what about me?"

Darth Martin
Originally posted by long pig
Deathstroke can.

His reflexes are supersonic, he's sidestepped sunfires super-sonic blasts a couple times and she was amazed at how fast he is. She even said kid Flash couldn't do that. smile

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