2007 Rapture?

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



JesusIsAlive
http://www.2007rapture.com/vision/

I already know what true believers in Jesus Christ are thinking that no person knows the day nor hour of the catching away (i.e. rapture) of the church. I was very cautious reading the articles from this link because I know that there are many false prophets in these last days. All I ask you to do is to read this women's testimony and judge this prophetic word by the Bible. Prayerfully study every Scripture on the subject of the rapture. Ask the Father God to reveal to you whether this woman's prophecy is true or false.


She mentions something that I have never thought of. She states that Jesus said that no one (not even Jesus) knows the day nor hour of the rapture. But here is what she said that riveted my attention: she said that no one knows the day or hour but that Jesus said nothing about year or season. She states that God gave her the year and season but not the day nor hour of the rapture. She said that Jesus will catch away His church in the summer of 2007 (June 21-September 21).


Folks, I am the most Scripturally sound, based, accurate, person that I know. I do not deviate from the Scriptures. But when she said that God gave her the year and season I was somewhat dumbfounded because it was something that I never thought about. I will let you all judge this prophecy by the Bible, for the Scriptures instruct us to judge all prophecies by the Word of God for verification.


I urge all of you to read the whole thing before coming to a conclusion. You always have the option of disregarding this article. But give it equal time.


http://www.2007rapture.com/vision/

crazy
Well at least it's after my graduation.

Scythe
Hahahahaahahahaha! Where's my sock!

RocasAtoll
Point?

Scythe
Not taken...

Robtard
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
http://www.2007rapture.com/vision/

I already know what true believers in Jesus Christ are thinking that no person knows the day nor hour of the catching away (i.e. rapture) of the church. I was very cautious reading the articles from this link because I know that there are many false prophets in these last days. All I ask you to do is to read this women's testimony and judge this prophetic word by the Bible. Prayerfully study every Scripture on the subject of the rapture. Ask the Father God to reveal to you whether this woman's prophecy is true or false.


She mentions something that I have never thought of. She states that Jesus said that no one (not even Jesus) knows the day nor hour of the rapture. But here is what she said that riveted my attention: she said that no one knows the day or hour but that Jesus said nothing about year or season. She states that God gave her the year and season but not the day nor hour of the rapture. She said that Jesus will catch away His church in the summer of 2007 (June 21-September 21).


Folks, I am the most Scripturally sound, based, accurate, person that I know. I do not deviate from the Scriptures. But when she said that God gave her the year and season I was somewhat dumbfounded because it was something that I never thought about. I will let you all judge this prophecy by the Bible, for the Scriptures instruct us to judge all prophecies by the Word of God for verification.


I urge all of you to read the whole thing before coming to a conclusion. You always have the option of disregarding this article. But give it equal time.


http://www.2007rapture.com/vision/

Hello JIA,

I have a few question if you do not mind:

1) If Jesus and God are indeed one and the same, how could Jesus not have known? That's like the chef not knowing when the meal is ready.

2) Summer 2007 is vague, is it supposed to be when we N. Americans have our summer or when it is summer somewhere else?

3) I was once told by a Christian/End of Day person that when the rapture comes, one must have coins in his/her pocket otherwise be left standing on the side lines, is this true?

4) On September 22nd 2007, what will you say when you're still standing on at the corner with your bags packed and the rapture bus hasn't yet come to spirit you off to Jesus land? Hypothetically speaking.

Regret
Originally posted by Robtard
I have a few question if you do not mind:

1) If Jesus and God are indeed one and the same, how could have Jesus not known? That's like the chef not knowing when the meal is ready. All I have to say is, Dissociative Identity Disorder...

Draco69
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
http://www.2007rapture.com/vision/

I already know what true believers in Jesus Christ are thinking that no person knows the day nor hour of the catching away (i.e. rapture) of the church. I was very cautious reading the articles from this link because I know that there are many false prophets in these last days. All I ask you to do is to read this women's testimony and judge this prophetic word by the Bible. Prayerfully study every Scripture on the subject of the rapture. Ask the Father God to reveal to you whether this woman's prophecy is true or false.


She mentions something that I have never thought of. She states that Jesus said that no one (not even Jesus) knows the day nor hour of the rapture. But here is what she said that riveted my attention: she said that no one knows the day or hour but that Jesus said nothing about year or season. She states that God gave her the year and season but not the day nor hour of the rapture. She said that Jesus will catch away His church in the summer of 2007 (June 21-September 21).


Folks, I am the most Scripturally sound, based, accurate, person that I know. I do not deviate from the Scriptures. But when she said that God gave her the year and season I was somewhat dumbfounded because it was something that I never thought about. I will let you all judge this prophecy by the Bible, for the Scriptures instruct us to judge all prophecies by the Word of God for verification.


I urge all of you to read the whole thing before coming to a conclusion. You always have the option of disregarding this article. But give it equal time.


http://www.2007rapture.com/vision/

Yay. Another Rapture prophecy. This is new....

roll eyes (sarcastic)

Darth Kreiger
So what's the Rapture again? Armegeddon?

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
http://www.2007rapture.com/vision/

I already know what true believers in Jesus Christ are thinking that no person knows the day nor hour of the catching away (i.e. rapture) of the church. I was very cautious reading the articles from this link because I know that there are many false prophets in these last days. All I ask you to do is to read this women's testimony and judge this prophetic word by the Bible. Prayerfully study every Scripture on the subject of the rapture. Ask the Father God to reveal to you whether this woman's prophecy is true or false.


She mentions something that I have never thought of. She states that Jesus said that no one (not even Jesus) knows the day nor hour of the rapture. But here is what she said that riveted my attention: she said that no one knows the day or hour but that Jesus said nothing about year or season. She states that God gave her the year and season but not the day nor hour of the rapture. She said that Jesus will catch away His church in the summer of 2007 (June 21-September 21).


Folks, I am the most Scripturally sound, based, accurate, person that I know. I do not deviate from the Scriptures. But when she said that God gave her the year and season I was somewhat dumbfounded because it was something that I never thought about. I will let you all judge this prophecy by the Bible, for the Scriptures instruct us to judge all prophecies by the Word of God for verification.


I urge all of you to read the whole thing before coming to a conclusion. You always have the option of disregarding this article. But give it equal time.


http://www.2007rapture.com/vision/

Well then you better get your emergency rapture kit together. Essential in every kit? Your bible, several bottles of holy water, a travel pack of communion waffers and at least 6 D batteries. And if you're a true christian, a copy of Jesus Camp on DVD. It should be out by then.

Draco69
Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
So what's the Rapture again? Armegeddon?

Kinda. Jesus teleports us nude to heaven leaving our clothes and hard-earned Ipod behind. And the rest who don't believe in Jesus are going to suffer the Apoc. of hellfire and demons eating them alive for eons on Earth.

I personally would prefer to stay on Earth. I would rather not be naked in crowd of a naked people with warts on their asses...

sick

Darth Kreiger
Originally posted by Draco69
Kinda. Jesus teleports us nude to heaven leaving our clothes and hard-earned Ipod behind. And the rest who don't believe in Jesus are going to suffer the Apoc. of hellfire and demons eating them alive for eons on Earth.

I personally would prefer to stay on Earth. I would rather not be naked in crowd of a naked people with warts on their asses...

sick

So wait, if there's like Babies on Earth, who have no knowledge of God, do they get raped by Demons? And is it really our fault for not believing?

Strange questions.....

And hell yes, Earth is mine!(No pun intended)

Draco69
Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
So wait, if there's like Babies on Earth, who have no knowledge of God, do they get raped by Demons? And is it really our fault for not believing?

Strange questions.....

And hell yes, Earth is mine!(No pun intended)

Um. I think the babies go to purgatory where they float around as baby heads with wings on the sides of them for all eternity...

Seriously, I'm not making this up....

sad

Darth Kreiger
Originally posted by Draco69
Um. I think the babies go to purgatory where they float around as baby heads with wings on the sides of them for all eternity...

Seriously, I'm not making this up....

sad

So Christians go fly around in Clouds

Non-Religious burn in Firey Hell, or stay on Earth raped by Demons

Babies float in Purgatory


What a bleak future, if I am sent to Hell, I'll be a thorn in God's side for so long, he'll have to blink me from existence =P

Alliance
Hooray. no expression Chirstians have been proclaiming the rapture since Christ died.


JIA, when was the last time you read the Sermon on the Mount?

Atlantis001
There is no rapture..... you have to work if it is salvation what you want, and that require you to discriminate between real and false spirituality....

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
http://www.2007rapture.com/vision/
I already know what true believers in Jesus Christ are thinking that no person knows the day nor hour of the catching away (i.e. rapture) of the church. I was very cautious reading the articles from this link because I know that there are many false prophets in these last days. All I ask you to do is to read this women's testimony and judge this prophetic word by the Bible. Prayerfully study every Scripture on the subject of the rapture. Ask the Father God to reveal to you whether this woman's prophecy is true or false.

Like any other prophesy I doubt it. The world was meant to end numerous times. 2007 will be another year without Jesus swanning about. People have theorises the end of the world for pretty much forever. Heavens the Aztects thought if they didn't keep sacrificing the world would end.

And besides - the Bible has the end of times, Rapture and all that jazz as a big thing - it has a massive lead up. It wont just be BANG and it's over. Unless all those events are going to be compressed into little over a year I doubt it will happen.



The it is hard to believe Jesus is God if Jesus doesn't know God's plan.



Pride is a sin.

And so because of vague conditions (no day or hour which leaves year and season) in the Bible you think her prophesy could be biblically accurate?

Ooooo... I am having a revelation. The actual rapture will take place in the winter of 2006! Wait... Australia is entering summer now...

Because that is something that was forgotten.... not all nations have the same seasons! Is God going to take humanity in installements? While Australia is in winter you will be in Summer. There is no "global season."



I hereby pronounce this article.... disregarded after reading it.



No, unChristened babies are said to go to Limbo by the Catholic Church -though this wont be for much longer as the Pope has decided to scrap the whole limbo doctrine.

Purgatory is where all good people who lived before Jesus went, and they will have the chance to get to heaven when it all ends.

JesusIsAlive
http://www.spiritlessons.com/

To those who reject Jesus Christ (His love, His salvation) once the church is raptured (caught up into Heaven) tribulation (God's wrath against sinners on earth) will immediately follow. Don't accept the mark of the beast (666). If you do accept satan's mark your fate is sealed for eternity. You are a spirit and your spirit will never cease to exist. All people who have died and come back to life can attest to this. You only go to one of two places when you die: Heaven or Hell. I know that you have heard this a million times. Again, don' t accept the mark of the beast (666). If you refuse to accept satan's mark you will be tortured (to get you to accept it). If you do not accept satan's mark you will be beheaded. But if you refuse to accept satan's mark you will receive eternal life. Don't wait until after the church is gone to receive Christ into your heart and life. It will be harder for you to receive Christ once the church is gone. It will cost you immense suffering, pain, and ultimately death. Again, don't accept the mark of the beast (666).


So how do I receive Jesus so I can be forgiven for all of my sins, made righteous in God's eyes (or good enough to go to Heaven), and so I can receive everlasting life?

Romans 10:9-10,13
that IF YOU CONFESS WITH YOUR MOUTH THE LORD JESUS AND BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART THAT GOD HAS RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD, YOU WILL BE SAVED. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 10:13
FOR "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED."

1. God says you must confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and believe in your heart that He (God) has raised Him (Jesus Christ) from the dead, and you will be saved. You will be forgiven for all your sins, and declared to be righteous to go to Heaven.

2. Whoever calls on the Name of Lord Jesus Christ for salvation shall be saved. Whoever sincerely believes in, depends on, and trusts in Jesus Christ with all their heart will be saved. Ask Jesus Christ to save you from your sins, to declare you to be righteous, and to give you everlasting life. Thank Jesus for forgiving you for all of your sins, for declaring you to be righteous, for making
you good enough to go to Heaven, and for dying to pay for your sins.

Say this prayer from your heart:

Lord Jesus, I confess that You are Lord, and I believe with all of my heart that God raised You from the dead. I call upon Your Name for salvation. Also Lord Jesus, I repent from all of my sins. Thank You for saving me and giving me everlasting life now.

Imperial_Samura
Ummm... so you start a thread on a rapture prophasy... people come and give reasons why it is dubious... so you post something that has nothing to do with your topic and is merely a bit of preaching - "Jesus will svae you etc etc etc."

JesusIsAlive

Imperial_Samura
Exactly as I said above, but now with the "What does this have to do with supporting raputre womens amazingly unlikely sounding theory?

Jim Reaper
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
http://www.spiritlessons.com/

To those who reject Jesus Christ (His love, His salvation) once the church is raptured (caught up into Heaven) tribulation (God's wrath against sinners on earth) will immediately follow. Don't accept the mark of the beast (666). If you do accept satan's mark your fate is sealed for eternity. You are a spirit and your spirit will never cease to exist. All people who have died and come back to life can attest to this. You only go to one of two places when you die: Heaven or Hell. I know that you have heard this a million times. Again, don' t accept the mark of the beast (666). If you refuse to accept satan's mark you will be tortured (to get you to accept it). If you do not accept satan's mark you will be beheaded. But if you refuse to accept satan's mark you will receive eternal life. Don't wait until after the church is gone to receive Christ into your heart and life. It will be harder for you to receive Christ once the church is gone. It will cost you immense suffering, pain, and ultimately death. Again, don't accept the mark of the beast (666).

.

So if I wait and refuse "the mark" i'm still golden right? It will be harder, but still possible to get past those pearly gates I assume...
Sweet, another year of decadence and sin! Thx JIA. rock

Ushgarak
JIA, if you keep on simply ignoring posts and any attempt at discussion simply to regurgitate your beliefs onto threads in this forum, you are going to end up with a ban. You've already been warned. Now cut it out for good.

Robtard
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Exactly as I said above, but now with the "What does this have to do with supporting raputre womens amazingly unlikely sounding theory?

He's not really here to debate, I asked him a few questions based on his original post, you asked him a few questions based on his original post and he ignores them. Oh well.

What's funny, we asked very similar questions, I guess skeptics think alike.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by Robtard
He's not really here to debate, I asked him a few questions based on his original post, you asked him a few questions based on his original post and he ignores them. Oh well.

What's funny, we asked very similar questions, I guess skeptics think alike.

Skeptics, great minds.

Lord Urizen
JIA, the Rapture is a myth....get over it.

! RAGNOROK !

sithsaber408
This is bollocks!

JIA, you said it in the beginning, no Christian will believe this, and will point out to you:

NO MAN knows the hour of the rapture.

Don't let that statement be taken literally, so that you think you can predict the year or season. (or let this woman tell you that she's predicted it)



It means simply: Live your life for the Lord, do His will and try to save others, since you don't know how long you have here.
Or to an unbeliever: Accept me and live fullfilled, don't put it off since you don't know how long you have here.


Knowing the year and season would kinda defeat the purpose of faith, and go against the word of the Lord that people should accept him now, since they don't know when he'd come back.



And scripture says anything that goes against a bible teaching, but claims to be from God, is a false teaching.

Jesus not knowing the plans of the Father is also scripturally innacurate.



Go take a hot bath or something.

Mindship
So what's the Rapture again?
A new hip-hop CD.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by sithsaber408


Go take a hot bath or something.

Shouldn't it be cold shower?

sithsaber408
Whatever will wash this lady's crap off of him.

MyOwnMuse
Well, at least I'll be able to see Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix before the end...

sithsaber408
But not The Dark Night.


What a pisser. mad

lord xyz
This rapture stuff, isn't it just another way for us atheists to do what you tell us?

crazy
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Lord Jesus, I confess that You are Lord, and I believe with all of my heart that God raised You from the dead. I call upon Your Name for salvation. Also Lord Jesus, I repent from all of my sins. Thank You for saving me and giving me everlasting life now.

What happens if I say the prayer backwards!?!?!?!

Alliance
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Go take a hot bath or something.

droolio

Nellinator
Originally posted by crazy
What happens if I say the prayer backwards!?!?!?!
I tried. It almost makes sense actually.

Alliance
word-for-word backwards or letter-for-letter backwards?

debbiejo
Jesus never talked about a secret rapture.........and since then there have been views of a pre, mid, and post rapture ( oh, and that would be the 2nd coming...post).............Mr. Paul strikes again!.......Yeah through in this little verse from 2nd Thess. I think along with other texts taken out of context................

edit.........also certain denominations said the secret rapture happened in 1844.

Why is the verse saying "one will be left and the other be left behind?"........maybe the ones left behind are the worthy ones......it never says does it.

crazy
Originally posted by debbiejo
Jedit.........also certain denominations said the secret rapture happened in 1844.

Why is the verse saying "one will be left and the other be left behind?"........maybe the ones left behind are the worthy ones......it never says does it.

Care to elaborate further on the 1844 rapture? Sounds interesting.

Strangelove
The rapture has been predicted ever so frequently ever since year 100, I believe. Pardon me for not caring erm

Alliance
erm

Ok...but only this time.

Strangelove
Your generosity is astounding

Alliance
ninja

debbiejo
Originally posted by crazy
Care to elaborate further on the 1844 rapture? Sounds interesting. Secret Rapture stated by Seventh Day Adventist, though they changed their view, but by the Jehovah's Wittiness for sure.......and there are a few others.

Storm
Originally posted by debbiejo
Jesus never talked about a secret rapture.........and since then there have been views of a pre, mid, and post rapture ( oh, and that would be the 2nd coming...post).............Mr. Paul strikes again!.......Yeah through in this little verse from 2nd Thess. I think along with other texts taken out of context................

edit.........also certain denominations said the secret rapture happened in 1844.

Why is the verse saying "one will be left and the other be left behind?"........maybe the ones left behind are the worthy ones......it never says does it.
*Nods.*

The term 'rapture' is not found in the Bible, but the theory is firmly based on scripture. Acceptance of this doctrine is indeed based upon a passage in Paul' s first letter to the Thessalonians.

lord xyz
I thought the rapture was this year. It said so in those bible codes.

Storm
All of these Bible codes claims are strongly denied by skeptics and many religious groups as well.

lord xyz
Originally posted by Storm
All of these Bible codes claims are strongly denied by skeptics and many religious groups as well. But I thought they were true. Why would they lie like that. cry

Robtard
Originally posted by lord xyz
But I thought they were true. Why would they lie like that. cry

Bible codes have been utterly disproved... I forgot the guys name, but he proved that if you take a large enough book like the Bible you can find any code you are looking for. He went ahead and used Herman Melville's Moby Dick as an example. He put the entire book in computer program like they do with the Bible and he found everything that Bible Code freaks found, from WW1 to the rise of Hitler to the Twin Towers & 9/11 etc. etc. etc.

It isn't hard to claim to have found a secret code after the fact that it has happened. If people insist that the Bible Codes are proof of the Bible being divine in origin than they must also accept that Moby Dick is divine in origin and just about any other 'thick' book.

Alliance
Originally posted by Robtard
Bible codes have been utterly disproved... I forgot the guys name, but he proved that if you take a large enough book like the Bible you can find any code you are looking for. He went ahead and used Herman Melville's Moby Dick as an example. He put the entire book in computer program like they do with the Bible and he found everything that Bible Code freaks found, from WW1 to the rise of Hitler to the Twin Towers & 9/11 etc. etc. etc.

It isn't hard to claim to have found a secret code after the fact that it has happened. If people insist that the Bible Codes are proof of the Bible being divine in origin than they must also accept that Moby Dick is divine in origin and just about any other 'thick' book.

yes

FeceMan
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
http://www.2007rapture.com/vision/

I already know what true believers in Jesus Christ are thinking that no person knows the day nor hour of the catching away (i.e. rapture) of the church. I was very cautious reading the articles from this link because I know that there are many false prophets in these last days. All I ask you to do is to read this women's testimony and judge this prophetic word by the Bible. Prayerfully study every Scripture on the subject of the rapture. Ask the Father God to reveal to you whether this woman's prophecy is true or false.


She mentions something that I have never thought of. She states that Jesus said that no one (not even Jesus) knows the day nor hour of the rapture. But here is what she said that riveted my attention: she said that no one knows the day or hour but that Jesus said nothing about year or season. She states that God gave her the year and season but not the day nor hour of the rapture. She said that Jesus will catch away His church in the summer of 2007 (June 21-September 21).


Folks, I am the most Scripturally sound, based, accurate, person that I know. I do not deviate from the Scriptures. But when she said that God gave her the year and season I was somewhat dumbfounded because it was something that I never thought about. I will let you all judge this prophecy by the Bible, for the Scriptures instruct us to judge all prophecies by the Word of God for verification.


I urge all of you to read the whole thing before coming to a conclusion. You always have the option of disregarding this article. But give it equal time.


http://www.2007rapture.com/vision/
I'm not even reading this. People have predicted crap like this for centuries, and they were all wrong.

Alliance
Originally posted by FeceMan
I'm not even reading this. People have predicted crap like this for centuries, and they were all wrong.

Its amazing how simple this is.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Robtard
Bible codes have been utterly disproved... I forgot the guys name, but he proved that if you take a large enough book like the Bible you can find any code you are looking for. He went ahead and used Herman Melville's Moby Dick as an example. He put the entire book in computer program like they do with the Bible and he found everything that Bible Code freaks found, from WW1 to the rise of Hitler to the Twin Towers & 9/11 etc. etc. etc.

It isn't hard to claim to have found a secret code after the fact that it has happened. If people insist that the Bible Codes are proof of the Bible being divine in origin than they must also accept that Moby Dick is divine in origin and just about any other 'thick' book.
Not true. The author of the Bible Codes, Michael Drosnin was a complete idiot who found a few curious thing that could be reproduced. Drosnin, however, did not do an in depth search nor did he back it up with enough ELS intervals and nor did he show enough statistical proof. However, the Moby Dick codes are not nearly as profound or vast as the true Bible Codes. Michael Drosnin used the Masocretic text which lacks many of the codes because of minor errors and a few missing letters. Furthermore, Drosnin tried to use the Bible Codes to divine the future which forbidden in the Bible, and therefore should be invalidated However, the Dead Sea Scrolls reveal the true Bible Codes which Moby Dick is no match for. Real Bible Code researchers have found many things beyond the scope of Moby Dick or War and Peace.

A great example would be within the limitation of Isaiah 52-53 which contain the messianic prophecies of the 'suffering servant'. Ironically in a passage that specifically refers to Christ is encoded the names of all twelve disciples with the words 'The Disciples' (interestingly Judas Iscariot is not encoded there, but Matthias is), the three Marys, Joseph, Jesse, Obed, the priests who had him condemned (Annas and Caiaphas), Passover (when Christ was crucified), 'Let Him Be Crucified' is also found, 'cross', 'pierced', 'the Atonement Lamb' (Jesus as the fulfillment of the Passover), 'bread', and 'wine' (the Last Supper), and still other related words that could see as coincidence. But the what I have written shows an unbelievable amount of reference to Jesus within a very small amount of space which is ironically the most major messianic prophecy in the OT. Even Jewish rabbis have confirmed the validity of the Yeshua Codes I mentioned. Moby Dick has nothing close to that. Also, every messianic prophecy has the name of Jesus encoded within it several times.

Gregory
You're gibbering. Let's just take one example: "Michael Drosnin used the Masocretic text which lacks many of the codes because of minor errors and a few missing letters." I hate to break your bubble, but there is no "correct" text of the Bible. The Massocretic text is by far the most standard text we have, however, and to throw it out and use another text (and which text do you think would be more appropriate, hm?) is an act of pure desperation.

The rest of your post is basically just vague handwaving ("this prophesy is so much better then any of the Moby Dick ones!"wink, so there's really nothing to be said for it. Your bringing up the Dead Sea scrolls is sort of cute, though. You've read them, right? Which of the scrolls do you think gives the secret of the Bible codes? If you mean that you should perform "code analysis" on them instead of the Massocretic, good luck with that. If "a few missing letters" made using the Massocretic a bad idea, then how you could use texts as fragmented as the Dead Sea Scrolls ... the mind boggles.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Gregory
You're gibbering. Let's just take one example: "Michael Drosnin used the Masocretic text which lacks many of the codes because of minor errors and a few missing letters." I hate to break your bubble, but there is no "correct" text of the Bible. The Massocretic text is by far the most standard text we have, however, and to throw it out and use another text (and which text do you think would be more appropriate, hm?) is an act of pure desperation.

The rest of your post is basically just vague handwaving ("this prophesy is so much better then any of the Moby Dick ones!"wink, so there's really nothing to be said for it. Your bringing up the Dead Sea scrolls is sort of cute, though. You've read them, right? Which of the scrolls do you think gives the secret of the Bible codes? If you mean that you should perform "code analysis" on them instead of the Massocretic, good luck with that. If "a few missing letters" made using the Massocretic a bad idea, then how you could use texts as fragmented as the Dead Sea Scrolls ... the mind boggles.
The missing of but a few letters from the Masocetic text throws off all the ELS intervals. These were mostly due to changes in spelling. However, the Dead Sea Scrolls predate the Masocretic text and are therefore, the most accurate text available to us. This is not desperation at all. Masocretic text is more available, but it is fact that the Dead Sea scrolls are more accurate. If we found an older text I am confident we would find more codes. My claim stands: Moby Dick does not have the detail or volume of codes as the Dead Sea Scrolls. Nor does it use as short of intervals.

Gregory
Ah, so you haven't read the Dead Sea Scrolls, then. Never mind that they don't contain passages from all of the books of the Torah. They are too fragmented to do the analysis you want to do on them? The Masocretic have bad spelling? Missing letters? My God, if that's enough to throw off analysis, the idea of using the Dead Sea scrolls instead is beyond desperate.

(The idea that they must be more authoritative because they're earlier also deserves comment, but I have a class right now, so later.)

Nellinator
Originally posted by Gregory
Ah, so you haven't read the Dead Sea Scrolls, then. Never mind that they don't contain passages from all of the books of the Torah. They are too fragmented to do the analysis you want to do on them? The Masocretic have bad spelling? Missing letters? My God, if that's enough to throw off analysis, the idea of using the Dead Sea scrolls instead is beyond desperate.

(The idea that they must be more authoritative because they're earlier also deserves comment, but I have a class right now, so later.)
Too fragmented?
The entire book of Isaiah from which I pulled the codes is present in the Dead Sea Scrolls, unfragmented. Yes, some are fairly badly fragmented, but enough isn't.
The Masocretic Text does not mispell, the spelling in the Hebrew language changed over time just like they started adding spaces between words.
And it is easy to throw off the analysis with one missing letter. The Masocretic text can be used to find a lot of codes, but one letter missing in an ELS can make new words thereby destroying the code.
And actually the Masocretic and Dead Sea Scrolls are basically equally authoritative. There is only a difference of 169 letters between the two.

Gregory
Perhaps an example is in order. You say that the Dead Sea Scrolls are older then the Masocretic texts. This is, of course, nothing but the truth. You say that we should use the Dead Sea scrolls to do Bible Code stuff with. Well...

Did you know that the Dead Sea scrolls contain two different versions of Jeremiah? You do now. One of them is essentially the Masocretic text. The other is significantly different; it is shorter, and events happen in different order. So how, exactly, do you propose to perform analysis on the Dead Sea variant of Jeremiah when even the Essenes couldn't agree on what Jeremiah was supposed to look like?

Well, that's probably an exception. Let's use the Dead Sea Scrolls to do analysis on Job! What's that you say? There is no complete copy of Job in the Dead Sea scrolls? The most complete document of Job consists of six small fragments? ... oh.

Deutronomy! I mean, hell, there are over thirty three Deutronomy scrolls in the Dead Sea collection! ... and if you put all thirty-three of them together, the results are still fragmented. Hm.

You've got better luck with Genesis, and phenominal luck with Isaiah; I know that we have a complete copy of Isaiah among the Dead Sea Scrolls, and I think we have a complete copy of Genesis.

Samuel? Interesting scroll. We've got one really big fragment of it, and hundreds of smaller fragments.

Kings? Ezekial? Fragments. Proverbs? Scraps here and there.

Ezra? One tiny scrap? Chronicles? One scrap.

Song of Songs? Well, we have two good copies. And what does "good" mean in the context of the Dead Sea Scrolls? Well, one contains 3:4-5, 7-11; 4:1-7; 6:11-12:7:1-7. The other contains 2:9-17; 3:1-2, 5, 9-10; 4:1-3, 8-11, 14-16; 5:1.

That's the Dead Sea Scrolls for you. My God! We can't use the Masocretic texts because they have "incorrect" words and different spellings, but using fragmented texts where entire pages are missing won't cause any problems? The ELS won't be be thrown off at all by that?

I said that the idea that the oldest documents were necessarily "better" deserved to be commented on. In this case, it's clearly nonsense. The Dead Sea Scrolls, as you probably know, were the religious texts of a Jewish group called the Essenes. They were, essentially, an apocalyptic cult that hung out in the desert. Now, all of the OT books were written before even our oldest fragments of them. There's no questtion of that. Is your theory, perhaps, that when they were first written down, they most closely resembled the Dead Sea Scroll varients, and that all of the Jewish scribes and copyists who weren't part of a fringe issolationist doomsday cult got together and conspired to change them?

Doesn't that strike you as sort of silly?

Strangelove
Originally posted by lord xyz
I thought the rapture was this year. It said so in those bible codes. No! The Rapture is happening in 2014, because that's when the Mayan calendar stops! man

S.C.U.D DF
These are sad forum's.

Well JesusIsAlive. I dont know If I agree with 100% of what you preach. But I follow God. I support God. I support the Christian faith. I know the truth about Jesus. I have Proof of Jesus, his faith. His father. I talk to and have found God in my life.

All I have to say to the christian people is Keep trying. Our job aint over. Hopfully soon some of these people will realize that they make " NO F*CKING SENSE" of anything in life. If you people cant stand united with fellow christian's, and other beliefes. then get the **** out.

Gregory
Ah yes. "And verily, Jesus said to them, 'I don't like you. Get the **** out.'" Luke, isn't it?

Well, maybe he didn't say that exactly. Paul, on the other hand, said that if people weren't receptive to your teachings, you should go away and leave them alone, something JIA could learn from.

Storm
You' re free to leave.

Don' t assume that you know our views. You can make guesses, but try not to act on or base much on them. The more you assume about us, the more likely it is that some of your assumptions will be wrong. The most of us are open to a wide variety of religious and spiritual ideas. What right do you think you have to tell others to get out?

Strangelove
Originally posted by Storm
You're free to leave.

Alliance
Originally posted by S.C.U.D DF
These are sad forum's.

Well JesusIsAlive. I dont know If I agree with 100% of what you preach. But I follow God. I support God. I support the Christian faith. I know the truth about Jesus. I have Proof of Jesus, his faith. His father. I talk to and have found God in my life.

All I have to say to the christian people is Keep trying. Our job aint over. Hopfully soon some of these people will realize that they make " NO F*CKING SENSE" of anything in life. If you people cant stand united with fellow christian's, and other beliefes. then get the **** out.

I agree with Storm. These forum were not created to serve your narrow sense of "truth." If you hate it so much here, please leave. Unproductive and unhappy members are not good for the forum.

Robtard
Originally posted by Nellinator
Not true. The author of the Bible Codes, Michael Drosnin was a complete idiot who found a few curious thing that could be reproduced. Drosnin, however, did not do an in depth search nor did he back it up with enough ELS intervals and nor did he show enough statistical proof. However, the Moby Dick codes are not nearly as profound or vast as the true Bible Codes. Michael Drosnin used the Masocretic text which lacks many of the codes because of minor errors and a few missing letters. Furthermore, Drosnin tried to use the Bible Codes to divine the future which forbidden in the Bible, and therefore should be invalidated However, the Dead Sea Scrolls reveal the true Bible Codes which Moby Dick is no match for. Real Bible Code researchers have found many things beyond the scope of Moby Dick or War and Peace.

A great example would be within the limitation of Isaiah 52-53 which contain the messianic prophecies of the 'suffering servant'. Ironically in a passage that specifically refers to Christ is encoded the names of all twelve disciples with the words 'The Disciples' (interestingly Judas Iscariot is not encoded there, but Matthias is), the three Marys, Joseph, Jesse, Obed, the priests who had him condemned (Annas and Caiaphas), Passover (when Christ was crucified), 'Let Him Be Crucified' is also found, 'cross', 'pierced', 'the Atonement Lamb' (Jesus as the fulfillment of the Passover), 'bread', and 'wine' (the Last Supper), and still other related words that could see as coincidence. But the what I have written shows an unbelievable amount of reference to Jesus within a very small amount of space which is ironically the most major messianic prophecy in the OT. Even Jewish rabbis have confirmed the validity of the Yeshua Codes I mentioned. Moby Dick has nothing close to that. Also, every messianic prophecy has the name of Jesus encoded within it several times.

You are forgetting the most important fallacy about the Bible Codes... It isn't hard to find something you are specifically looking for, especially if it has already happened. I am certain you could mix and match and find the word combination 'Jesus died for our sins' or 'George W. Bush wins in 2004' in just about any thick book.

Alliance
Lets be intelligent...


If the "Bible Codes" are so "right..." who will win the US presidency in 2008.

And I wnat to know now, not AFTER it happens.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Alliance
Lets be intelligent...


If the "Bible Codes" are so "right..." who will win the US presidency in 2008.

And I wnat to know now, not AFTER it happens.

exactly! I've always wondered why none of these codes predict things before they happen

debbiejo
They are cool though especially the ones in the Torah......first five books of the bible.........And yet didn't the Bible say not to take every spirit as truth.........couldn't this just be another spirit Jesus talked about if you're going by the bible.........

Alliance
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
exactly! I've always wondered why none of these codes predict things before they happen

It is interesting, isn't it?

debbiejo
The Rapture happened already in 1844. Get over it........We all missed it....... sad

lord xyz
Originally posted by debbiejo
The Rapture happened already in 1844. Get over it........We all missed it....... sad What about the one in 1988 and the one in 1999? Oh, and the one that'll happen thiws year aswell.

Robtard
Originally posted by Alliance
Lets be intelligent...


If the "Bible Codes" are so "right..." who will win the US presidency in 2008.

And I wnat to know now, not AFTER it happens.

That's the magical catch, the Bible Code people can't foretell the future with the Bible since it hasn't happened yet. They can only find things that happened already by mixing and matching words and letters then claim "Ah ha, the Bible predicted it thousands of years ago and it has come to pass!"

Like I said, go get Moby Dick or any other word heavy book and you can 'predict' the future all day long, make a messiah out of Herman Melville or any other author you like. I am certain you could find the phrase 'Rapture going down July 14th 2009' if you looked hard enough.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by S.C.U.D DF
These are sad forum's.

Well JesusIsAlive. I dont know If I agree with 100% of what you preach. But I follow God. I support God. I support the Christian faith. I know the truth about Jesus. I have Proof of Jesus, his faith. His father. I talk to and have found God in my life.

All I have to say to the christian people is Keep trying. Our job aint over. Hopfully soon some of these people will realize that they make " NO F*CKING SENSE" of anything in life. If you people cant stand united with fellow christian's, and other beliefes. then get the **** out.

You need to get laid yes

Alliance
laughing out loud

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by S.C.U.D DF
These are sad forum's.

Because everybody shows you up as wrong? Yes, I can see how that makes you sad.



You don't know if you agree with what he is saying? The rest of that section makes you sound like an JIA clone, only an offensive war-mongering one.



Keep on trying? What job do the Christians have? As far as I know Christians are not: a. the world police, b. the global authority on morality, c. the one true religion, d. somehow exceptional when compared to other religions e. responsible for anybody but themselves.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Robtard
You are forgetting the most important fallacy about the Bible Codes... It isn't hard to find something you are specifically looking for, especially if it has already happened. I am certain you could mix and match and find the word combination 'Jesus died for our sins' or 'George W. Bush wins in 2004' in just about any thick book.
Thats just not true. The fact that so much is in a small area is what makes it so impossible. The codes within Moby Dick have nowhere near the abundance, nor are the relevant terms contained within such a small area. Nor do they use nearly as short of intervals. The ELS is the most significant part of the true Bible Codes. Moby Dick can not stand up to a true analysis. If 'Jesus died for our sins' was in a thick book it would not be significant unless it was by short intervals and grouped with other words pertaining to Jesus like the wealth of relevant information contained within Isaiah 52-53. What are the odds that the names of the twelve disciples (ironically discluding Judas and including Matthias) would be contained within such a short passage, especially one pertaining to the coming Messiah? It is absolutely astronomical. Combine that with all the other codes discovered that I would be happy to divulge if need be and it should be obvious that this is no thing of chance. It is an impossibility.

And the Bible Codes should not be used to determine the future because the Bible forbids it. Also, it is extremely hard to predict certain events before they happen.

The people here that have read 'The Bible Codes' by Michael Drosnin should disregard it as he does not use scientific method nor enough in depth research. Try 'The Signature of God' or my reference book 'The Mysterious Bible Codes' both by Grant R. Jeffrey. It is reliable and peer reviewed work that stands up to scrutiny.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Nellinator
Moby Dick can not stand up to a true analysis.

NEITHER CAN THE BIBLE YOU ONE-SIDED NUTJOB!

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Keep on trying? What job do the Christians have? As far as I know Christians are not: a. the world police, b. the global authority on morality, c. the one true religion, d. somehow exceptional when compared to other religions e. responsible for anybody but themselves.

Someone needs to tell them that. Because their religion contradicts you.

Alliance
Nellinator. Can you please respond?

Originally posted by Alliance
If the "Bible Codes" are so "right..." who will win the US presidency in 2008.

And I want to know now, not AFTER it happens.

Convince me its real by predicting a specific future event.

Slyððering
Isn't it regarded as fact by most theologians that "the rapture" was simply something amped up by the Catholic Church, based on certain statements in the Old Testament? confused

And, to answer the thread, I'm not convinced. Christians have been predicting the end of the world since the time of Christ himself. And guess what: It's never happened! eek!

But seriously, I just don't believe in a rapture....and, to be honest, I don't know many people who wouldn't be left on Earth to face the end during a rapture....

Jim Reaper
Originally posted by S.C.U.D DF
. If you people cant stand united with fellow christian's, and other beliefes. then get the **** out.


laughing out loud Yes! Give in to that hate...turn to the darkside. evil face

Gregory
Originally posted by Nellinator
'The Signature of God' or my reference book 'The Mysterious Bible Codes' both by Grant R. Jeffrey. It is reliable and peer reviewed work that stands up to scrutiny.

And if something's peer reviewed it must be reliable. Because certainly no peer-reviewed article journal would publish an article on this subject whose conclussion they didn't support. Right?

Is Jeffrey the one who wants to perform analysis on texts that are missing entire pages, but thinks that you can't perform analysis on texts with a few incorrect letters? Or is that just you?

Dear old Grant Jeffrey. His works certainly do stand up to scrutiny, don't they?

Nellinator
Originally posted by Alliance
Nellinator. Can you please respond?

Convince me its real by predicting a specific future event.
Perhaps. But I wouldn't use the Bible Codes to predict future events. As I have said it is against the Bible to do that. I also think God would have planned against anyone ever successfully using it in that way.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
Perhaps. But I wouldn't use the Bible Codes to predict future events. As I have said it is against the Bible to do that. I also think God would have planned against anyone ever successfully using it in that way.

Then by your own submission, the Bible codes are bull$hit...if God didn't want them to be figured out, he wouldn't have put them there.

Gregory
Where? People fortell the future all the time in the Bible.

Robtard
Originally posted by Nellinator
Perhaps. But I wouldn't use the Bible Codes to predict future events. As I have said it is against the Bible to do that. I also think God would have planned against anyone ever successfully using it in that way.

Great way to debate, when someone questions and puts you to the test, you claim it shouldn't be done. Can you point out where in the Bible God forbids us to foretell the future? Bible Codes are just another hoax, smoke and mirrors.

Alliance
Originally posted by Nellinator
Perhaps. But I wouldn't use the Bible Codes to predict future events. As I have said it is against the Bible to do that. I also think God would have planned against anyone ever successfully using it in that way.

Ok, then by your own claims, the future cannot be predicted using the bible. Your claim is not testable or accurate.

Basically, people find what they want and then make up algorithms to attempt to make it seem like prophecy.

Robtard
Exactly... And to be a true prophecy, it needs to be foretold BEFORE the event happens.

Alliance
yup.

lord xyz
Originally posted by Robtard
Exactly... And to be a true prophecy, it needs to be foretold BEFORE the event happens. It's the same with Nostradamus.

Alliance
Yup.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Robtard
Exactly... And to be a true prophecy, it needs to be foretold BEFORE the event happens.
Exactly. Prophecy is man declaring the future revealed to him the Lord. Prophecy is not the same as divining the future. The Bible Codes are much different than prophecy. I suppose they could be used to tell the future, but you would have to know what you are looking for. Michael Drosnin tried and failed, that is one reason why I wouldn't.

Divination (the Hebrew word involves foretelling the future) is condemned. Deuteronomy 18:10-11, Leviticus 19:26, and Isaiah 47:12-13 are a few examples.
Also, there is lots of stuff about false prophets (Jeremiah 23:25-40 as the best example I can think of) and the idiocy of being one. I'm not going to be one. If I were to prophecy it would have to be in the Holy Spirit, but I do not seem to have received that gift. Therefore, I do not prophecy.

This does not disqualify the Bible Codes, however, as they merely show evidence of divine authorship. I do not consider the Bible Codes to be the end all of the discussion of God, but I believe that they provide some very good evidence of divine authorship. I would convinced if I were presented with proof that another book had codes approaching the magnitude of the Bible (and at short ELS intervals) that Bible Codes are false, but I haven't seen other codes stand up to the scrutiny the Bible has.. I gave you an example of Bible Codes, but you have failed to produce a counter example from Moby Dick. I would actually like to see one.

Gregory
So, which version of Jeremiah do you think we should perform analysis on?

Do you agree with Grant Jeffrey's interpretation of the Second Law of Thermodynamics?

Nellinator
Originally posted by Gregory
So, which version of Jeremiah do you think we should perform analysis on?

Do you agree with Grant Jeffrey's interpretation of the Second Law of Thermodynamics?
I agree that the Masocretic text is extraordinarily accurate. The differences are so few and small that I consider the Masocretic to be canon. However, since I believe that the Masocretic text and the Dea Sea Scrolls are derived from the same sources, both should be carefully considered. I haven't researched enough or put enough thought into it to decide my position on the matter, so I can't really comment.

And I agree that Grant Jeffrey is too biased and sometimes twists words. He is also not really qualified to be commenting on the implications. However, when I read the book I ignored what he wrote and went straight to the pages with the Hebrew showing the intervals and words. This is what I base my beliefs on the matter on, not on what Grant Jeffrey said.

Gregory
Speaking of Hebrew .. you remember that there are no vowls in that language, right? (Maybe you even read it?) When you brought up the Isaiah passage, you mentioned how the intervals were lower then anything in Moby Dick; isn't it plausible that if the Torah contains more seemingle impressive codes, it's because the people doing the analysis can stick in vowles wherever they want, whereas people doing the same with Moby Dick or War and Peace can't?

There's also the dedication issue to consider. These people devote their lives to the Bible Code; they can afford to scower the Bible both by computer and by hand looking for the most impressive results; whereas skeptics are much more likely to find a few results and declare, "Well, that's enough of that." (in other words, the people who think they're looking for God's word will devote more time to it then the people who think they're debunking a few harmless crackpots).

debbiejo
Originally posted by lord xyz
It's the same with Nostradamus. I don't believe people can really make prophecies since every action of someone can alter the reality. Every word, action, and thought. Though I do believe that people can or may get glimpses of the Now.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Gregory
Speaking of Hebrew .. you remember that there are no vowls in that language, right? (Maybe you even read it?) When you brought up the Isaiah passage, you mentioned how the intervals were lower then anything in Moby Dick; isn't it plausible that if the Torah contains more seemingle impressive codes, it's because the people doing the analysis can stick in vowles wherever they want, whereas people doing the same with Moby Dick or War and Peace can't?

There's also the dedication issue to consider. These people devote their lives to the Bible Code; they can afford to scower the Bible both by computer and by hand looking for the most impressive results; whereas skeptics are much more likely to find a few results and declare, "Well, that's enough of that." (in other words, the people who think they're looking for God's word will devote more time to it then the people who think they're debunking a few harmless crackpots).
Yes, but it doesn't change the words that appear. In Hebrew you don't just stick in vowels. Letters in a certain order form words in Hebrew. That is what was used, they didn't insert vowels. What are you talking about?
The use of computers didn't take that long to unravel many Bible Codes. The people who devoted their lives to it were doing it without computers. The fact is the same method was tried on Moby Dick as was used on the Bible and it failed to provide the same magnitude and grouping of codes.
Originally posted by debbiejo
I don't believe people can really make prophecies since every action of someone can alter the reality. Every word, action, and thought. Though I do believe that people can or may get glimpses of the Now.
Actually true. God was known to withhold his prophecied wrath when people repented.

Alliance
So then its not a prophecy...its arbitrary attempts by Christians to justify their mythology.

Gregory
Ancient Hebrew does not have vowels; you don't "randomly stick them in," no, but different strings of consanents can form different words. sheva ("seven"wink and sava ("he is satisfied"; and no, I don't speak Hebrew, so I'm taking Dr. Strouse word on these interpretations) are differentiated only by Hebrew vowel points. So what I'm talking about is, it's a hell of a lot easier to form words and sentences when you have no context and can stick in vowel markers where you want them.

And I believe that your example from Isaiah was found by hand, as a matter of fact. Certainly one of the major Isaiah "code passages" was.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Gregory
Ancient Hebrew does not have vowels; you don't "randomly stick them in," no, but different strings of consanents can form different words. sheva ("seven"wink and sava ("he is satisfied"; and no, I don't speak Hebrew, so I'm taking Dr. Strouse word on these interpretations) are differentiated only by Hebrew vowel points. So what I'm talking about is, it's a hell of a lot easier to form words and sentences when you have no context and can stick in vowel markers where you want them.

And I believe that your example from Isaiah was found by hand, as a matter of fact. Certainly one of the major Isaiah "code passages" was.
This is why the Dead Sea Scrolls are better for the codes. Ancient Hebrew did not use vowel points at all if I remember correctly. Also, I've seen these codes in the original Hebrew and no vowels were added to them.

And I think the ones I mentioned were done with a computer by Yacov Rambsel.

Gregory
About Rambsel, maybe; I was just going off memory.

Regarding vowles, I didn't mean they were added into the Hewbrew (which doesn't use them; you're right). I mean ... let's take an example in English, because it's easier when we have a language we both speak. Suppose that you tell your computer to start somewhere and take every fifth vowel, and you get, "Jesus is lord."

Now suppose that you're dealing with the same example, except that you don't have any of the English vowles thrown in. You're computer spits out, "Jss s lrd." Jesus is lord? Jess is Lord? Jesus is lard? Any of these phrases are valid readings; but you get to pick the one you want.

And that's why it's easier to find messages in Hebrew then in English.

(There's no real reason you would know this, but I've gotten sort of curious; has anybody subjected nonChristian holy books to this sort of scrutany, and what have they turned up if they have?)

Nellinator
Originally posted by Gregory
About Rambsel, maybe; I was just going off memory.

Regarding vowles, I didn't mean they were added into the Hewbrew (which doesn't use them; you're right). I mean ... let's take an example in English, because it's easier when we have a language we both speak. Suppose that you tell your computer to start somewhere and take every fifth vowel, and you get, "Jesus is lord."

Now suppose that you're dealing with the same example, except that you don't have any of the English vowles thrown in. You're computer spits out, "Jss s lrd." Jesus is lord? Jess is Lord? Jesus is lard? Any of these phrases are valid readings; but you get to pick the one you want.

And that's why it's easier to find messages in Hebrew then in English.

(There's no real reason you would know this, but I've gotten sort of curious; has anybody subjected nonChristian holy books to this sort of scrutany, and what have they turned up if they have?)
I'm not sure that vowel thing is right. I don't think the letter combination of Jesus can be used to make other words. I'm pretty sure the four letters mean Yeshua every time. Its actually easier to make meaningful words in code within the English language than it is in Hebrew I think I remember reading because of the presence of vowels and the simplicity of our word structures.

I think Rambsel is doing research on the Talmud and the Quran if I remember correctly. I'm pretty sure the Nag Hammadi library is being looked at as well as is the canonical NT. However, that research is still imcomplete if memory serves me.

Gregory
Jesus may mean Jesus every time, but I believe that the word "God," for example, is only differentiated from "to" and "no" by vowles (or context, in ancient Hebrew, but of course, the Bible code eliminates context). I don't know why English having vowles should make things easier; it makes it harder, as far as I can tell

debbiejo
I think it was in the year 1000 that everyone sold what they had, gave it to the poor and waited for Jesus......Some people stood up high on hills and such....... sad

Nellinator
Originally posted by debbiejo
I think it was in the year 1000 that everyone sold what they had, gave it to the poor and waited for Jesus......Some people stood up high on hills and such....... sad
That was dumb of them.

Alliance
Hell, Christians started out sitting on wooden poles.

The religion isn't exactly brimming with credibility.

Gregory
In the year 1000? Something like that happened much more recently, I think. The Jehovas' Witnesses, maybe?

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Robtard
Hello JIA,

I have a few question if you do not mind:

1) If Jesus and God are indeed one and the same, how could Jesus not have known? That's like the chef not knowing when the meal is ready.

2) Summer 2007 is vague, is it supposed to be when we N. Americans have our summer or when it is summer somewhere else?

3) I was once told by a Christian/End of Day person that when the rapture comes, one must have coins in his/her pocket otherwise be left standing on the side lines, is this true?

4) On September 22nd 2007, what will you say when you're still standing on at the corner with your bags packed and the rapture bus hasn't yet come to spirit you off to Jesus land? Hypothetically speaking.

How are you doing Robtard?
1) I believe that when the Lord Jesus Christ walked the earth that He temporarily laid aside His divine attributes. One of God's attributes is omniscience (i.e. knowledge of all things). Now that the Lord Jesus has been restored to the glory that He shared with the Father God before the world was, I believe that He does know when He will catch away His church.

2) I can only say that that is what the woman claims that the Lord God revealed to her as to when Jesus will catch away His church.

3) The whole coins in a pocket thing is easy for you to decide whether it is true or not, just use common sense. I don't mean to offend you but if something sounds ridiculous, most likely it is.

4) What rapture bus? I didn't say that I believed whether the woman's claim was true or not, I said that we should judge her prophecy by the Bible, and give it equal time like we do everything else.

Any more questions?

xmarksthespot
If god is omniscient then why did he mythologically create humans and the tree of knowledge in a garden, and being omniscient know they would eat from it, which he had forbade them from doing, then subsequently get angered and cast them out of the garden, despite already knowing that they would do so before he even made them, the garden and the tree.

Robtard
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
If god is omniscient then why did he mythologically create humans and the tree of knowledge in a garden, and being omniscient know they would eat from it, which he had forbade them from doing, then subsequently get angered and cast them out of the garden, despite already knowing that they would do so before he even made them, the garden and the tree.

Sounds sadistic doesn't it...

Robtard
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
How are you doing Robtard?
1) I believe that when the Lord Jesus Christ walked the earth that He temporarily laid aside His divine attributes. One of God's attributes is omniscience (i.e. knowledge of all things). Now that the Lord Jesus has been restored to the glory that He shared with the Father God before the world was, I believe that He does know when He will catch away His church.

2) I can only say that that is what the woman claims that the Lord God revealed to her as to when Jesus will catch away His church.

3) The whole coins in a pocket thing is easy for you to decide whether it is true or not, just use common sense. I don't mean to offend you but if something sounds ridiculous, most likely it is.

4) What rapture bus? I didn't say that I believed whether the woman's claim was true or not, I said that we should judge her prophecy by the Bible, and give it equal time like we do everything else.

Any more questions?

What makes you believe that Jesus put away his divine powers? By the Bible's account, Jesus performed miracles (i.e. healed the sick, turned water to wine etc.)?

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Robtard
Sounds sadistic doesn't it... Or retarded depending on how you look at it.

JesusIsAlive

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
If god is omniscient then why did he mythologically create humans and the tree of knowledge in a garden, and being omniscient know they would eat from it, which he had forbade them from doing, then subsequently get angered and cast them out of the garden, despite already knowing that they would do so before he even made them, the garden and the tree.

First, xmarksthespot, there is nothing mythological about the events described in the Bible. Second, Do you personally have children or do you know of someone that has children? Has your child or the child of someone that you know always obeyed his/her parents? Every parent takes a risk in bringing a child into the world. There are no guarantees that that child will obey its parents in all things, grow up completely responsible, and ultimately become a law-abiding citizen. But yet people knowingly bring children into this world (some of which end up on death row, in prison for life, or as serial killers or terrorists). Some children come into the world with disabilities and other health problems. Some children are born with behavioral problems or severe genetic defects and abnormalities. Some children are born pygmies or abnormally tall. Some are born hermaphrodites (possessing characteristics of both genders). In spite of all of these possibilities people continue to have children with full knowledge that all of these adverse circumstances may befall one or more of their offspring. So let me turn the question back on you. Why would you or someone that you know knowingly bring a child into the world with the possibility that that child might become the next Hitler? Why would you or someone that you know bring a child into the world with the possibility that that child might become a pedophile, rapist, murderer, thief, terrorist, racist, etc. Can't you see the fallacy in this line of thinking? People that have children don't worry about these things for the joy of bringing a life into the world. I said all that to say this: I surmise that God created Adam and Eve because He wanted children. But God knew that His children were going to be capable of disobeying Him (the same is true of earthly parents and their children). I conjecture that God wanted children that had the power to choose whether or not to love and obey Him. I don't believe that God wanted a couple of automatons (i.e. robots) that simply do what they are programmed to do. Do you want your children to be robots? Do you want your children to love you because they have no other choice or alternative? Your children have a free will (just like Adam and Eve) and they can decide for themselves whether to love you or to hate you. If your children did not have a will then they could not truly love you out of a heart of genuine love for you. They would be doing so because they have no other choice. I believe that God wanted to have children who were created in His image and likeness and have the power to choose (just like God) whether to love Him or not to love Him. God made Adam and Eve with wills so that they could make a decision on their own and not be forced to do anything. If you love you parents then the best way to demonstrate this is through your obedience to their commands (i.e. instructions). Children who truly love their parents are first and foremost obedient to their parents. This is a fundamental principle that all of us recognize. It is no different with Adam and Eve. God put that tree in the garden for no other reason that to give Adam and Eve an opportunity to obey Him of their own free will. Just like children today, Adam and Eve chose (i.e. willingly exercised their free wills in spite of the consequences) to disobey their Heavenly Father. What they did is no different than what children do all day long everyday. The only difference is that their consequence was death because they loosed the law of sin and death into the human race and into the world corrupting everything with sin. It is not God's fault that His children disobeyed Him. You can train, instruct, and instill values into your children but that is not an iron-clad, full-proof guarantee that your children will never disobey you. The onus is not on God at all. There are children that have grown up in homes where their parents were paragons of virtue and have lived exemplary lives for their children to emulate. But yet and still those children rebelled. Some children's rebellion is just a phase or a reaction to peer pressure and so forth. But the point is that their parents did everything that they could for them and yet they still rebelled. Now, those children may have eventually came to their senses and are now living their lives responsibly before God, their parents, and their fellow man/woman. So, don't blame God for Adam and Eve's mess, it is not His fault any more than it is your fault that your children's infractions are necessarily your fault. Don't you remember all of the stupid, ignorant, disobedient things that you did? We all do but we don't necessarily blame our parents for our foolishness do we? So don't blame God for Adam and Eve's foolishness.

Alliance
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
First, there is nothing mythological about the events described in the Bible.

HAH! Gods are myhtological.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
First, xmarksthespot, there is nothing mythological about the events described in the Bible. Second, Do you personally have children or do you know of someone that has children? Has your child or the child of someone that you know always obeyed his/her parents? Every parent takes a risk in bringing a child into the world. There are no guarantees that that child will obey its parents in all things, grow up completely responsible, and ultimately become a law-abiding citizen. But yet people knowingly bring children into this world (some of which end up on death row, in prison for life, or as serial killers or terrorists). Some children come into the world with disabilities and other health problems. Some children are born with behavioral problems or severe genetic defects and abnormalities. Some children are born pygmies or abnormally tall. Some are born hermaphrodites (possessing characteristics of both genders). In spite of all of these possibilities people continue to have children with full knowledge that all of these adverse circumstances may befall one or more of their offspring. So let me turn the question back on you. Why would you or someone that you know knowingly bring a child into the world with the possibility that that child might become the next Hitler? Why would you or someone that you know bring a child into the world with the possibility that that child might become a pedophile, rapist, murderer, thief, terrorist, racist, etc. Can't you see the fallacy in this line of thinking? People that have children don't worry about these things for the joy of bringing a life into the world. I said all that to say this: I surmise that God created Adam and Eve because He wanted children. But God knew that His children were going to be capable of disobeying Him (the same is true of earthly parents and their children). I conjecture that God wanted children that had the power to choose whether or not to love and obey Him. I don't believe that God wanted a couple of automatons (i.e. robots) that simply do what they are programmed to do. Do you want your children to be robots? Do you want your children to love you because they have no other choice or alternative? Your children have a free will (just like Adam and Eve) and they can decide for themselves whether to love you or to hate you. If your children did not have a will then they could not truly love you out of a heart of genuine love for you. They would be doing so because they have no other choice. I believe that God wanted to have children who were created in His image and likeness and have the power to choose (just like God) whether to love Him or not to love Him. God made Adam and Eve with wills so that they could make a decision on their own and not be forced to do anything. If you love you parents then the best way to demonstrate this is through your obedience to their commands (i.e. instructions). Children who truly love their parents are first and foremost obedient to their parents. This is a fundamental principle that all of us recognize. It is no different with Adam and Eve. God put that tree in the garden for no other reason that to give Adam and Eve an opportunity to obey Him of their own free will. Just like children today, Adam and Eve chose (i.e. willingly exercised their free wills in spite of the consequences) to disobey their Heavenly Father. What they did is no different than what children do all day long everyday. The only difference is that their consequence was death because they loosed the law of sin and death into the human race and into the world corrupting everything with sin. It is not God's fault that His children disobeyed Him. You can train, instruct, and instill values into your children but that is not an iron-clad, full-proof guarantee that your children will never disobey you. The onus is not on God at all. There are children that have grown up in homes where their parents were paragons of virtue and have lived exemplary lives for their children to emulate. But yet and still those children rebelled. Some children's rebellion is just a phase or a reaction to peer pressure and so forth. But the point is that their parents did everything that they could for them and yet they still rebelled. Now, those children may have eventually came to their senses and are now living their lives responsibly before God, their parents, and their fellow man/woman. So, don't blame God for Adam and Eve's mess, it is not His fault any more than it is your fault that your children's infractions are necessarily your fault. Don't you remember all of the stupid, ignorant, disobedient things that you did? We all do but we don't necessarily blame our parents for our foolishness do we? So don't blame God for Adam and Eve's foolishness.

The problem with the whole "parent/child" analogy is that, simply put, it doesn't work.

If it was true God would be be considered negligent by the law.

Oh wait, I forgot God doesn't obey the law. God is a parent? When he drowned the world and killed all those "evil people" - was that something a parent usually does, kill their children? And the Egyptian children. And I know few parents who would see their children suffer terribly - even the ones who actually have done something wrong let alone the ones who simply "believed the wrong thing." Yet God will let the Atheist burn, and the Hindus and Buddhists and Muslims and Catholics and everyone else who found more truth in teachings other then he, or those who believed in him but believed wrong.

So much for a proud father, proud of our free will, doing what out hearts and minds tell us is right. I mean it might be understandable if it was just really bad people. But the people who society doesn't classify as bad? Like some father sending his son or daughter to hell because she wanted to be a doctor instead of a lawyer. "I know I said you should use your free will and do what you think is right... but by that I meant follow me complelty. Sorry, off to hell with you my child. But remember while you suffer I will still love you."

And parents are meant to educate and answer questions... ooops, looks like God forgot that one. He just left a book and nothing else, and that book is far from perfect.

And parents who leave poisons in reach of children are bad parents. Whats this... God left the tree that would lead to sin within reach of the children! Bad Parent! Bad God!

And parents are meant to protect their children from harm and bad people... lets see, open up the paper... and whats this? There are children dying somewhere. A house fire... faulty wiring. Flames to hot for it to be rescued. Well, thank heavens its parent God was looking out for it. Its horrible fiery death is understandable when one has God as a parent.

And whats this? The ultimate bad man Satan... yes, God certainly protects us from him, doesn't he? Just let Satan whisper in our ears and then gives him our eternal souls if we don't live up to God's expectations.

Etc etc etc.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
The problem with the whole "parent/child" analogy is that, simply put, it doesn't work.

If it was true God would be be considered negligent by the law.

Oh wait, I forgot God doesn't obey the law. God is a parent? When he drowned the world and killed all those "evil people" - was that something a parent usually does, kill their children? And the Egyptian children. And I know few parents who would see their children suffer terribly - even the ones who actually have done something wrong let alone the ones who simply "believed the wrong thing." Yet God will let the Atheist burn, and the Hindus and Buddhists and Muslims and Catholics and everyone else who found more truth in teachings other then he, or those who believed in him but believed wrong.

So much for a proud father, proud of our free will, doing what out hearts and minds tell us is right. I mean it might be understandable if it was just really bad people. But the people who society doesn't classify as bad? Like some father sending his son or daughter to hell because she wanted to be a doctor instead of a lawyer. "I know I said you should use your free will and do what you think is right... but by that I meant follow me complelty. Sorry, off to hell with you my child. But remember while you suffer I will still love you."

And parents are meant to educate and answer questions... ooops, looks like God forgot that one. He just left a book and nothing else, and that book is far from perfect.

And parents who leave poisons in reach of children are bad parents. Whats this... God left the tree that would lead to sin within reach of the children! Bad Parent! Bad God!

And parents are meant to protect their children from harm and bad people... lets see, open up the paper... and whats this? There are children dying somewhere. A house fire... faulty wiring. Flames to hot for it to be rescued. Well, thank heavens its parent God was looking out for it. Its horrible fiery death is understandable when one has God as a parent.

And whats this? The ultimate bad man Satan... yes, God certainly protects us from him, doesn't he? Just let Satan whisper in our ears and then gives him our eternal souls if we don't live up to God's expectations.

Etc etc etc.
You seem to ignore the idea that God told us how to get to heaven. If we choose not to follow him its our own fault.
You can be a child of God without being a child. Should God need to keep the tree out of the reach of grown children. No, we should be responsible enough to know better and to get help when we OD. And God does still instruct us. It is called the Holy Spirit. "I will write the Law in their heart" or something to that effect in Jeremiah.

A father instructs his son how to be a good Christian, what is right and wrong, and that Jesus is the Savior. The Son decides becomes hooked on drugs and constantly brings the issues involved with it into the home. He eventually leaves home and ends up on the street addicted to drugs. The father still loves him and the son can return home at any time and the father will help him become well again. But its entirely up to the son whether or not he returns. That is how I see God.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Nellinator
If we choose not to follow him its our own fault.

Exactly, so shut the **** up. The burden of our souls is not your responsability.

Alliance
Originally posted by Nellinator
Should God need to keep the tree out of the reach of grown children.

GOing with this reference.

Why is the tree of "Knowledge" evil? Whats so bad about knowledge that we can't eat its fruit? What was God hiding from us?

Why is the serpent, a symbol of inellectualism, the form that the devil takes?

If the tree is so evil, why create it in the first place? Why have it in the garden?

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Alliance
GOing with this reference.

Why is the tree of "Knowledge" evil? Whats so bad about knowledge that we can't eat its fruit? What was God hiding from us?

Why is the serpent, a symbol of inellectualism, the form that the devil takes?

If the tree is so evil, why create it in the first place? Why have it in the garden?


excatly! It's like the bad guy spelling out the plot before the hero is dead. it's a lazy plot device designed to give teh hero a believable means of saving the day.

Alliance
laughing I don't really understand that, but it late and my mind is hazy.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Alliance
GOing with this reference.

Why is the tree of "Knowledge" evil? Whats so bad about knowledge that we can't eat its fruit? What was God hiding from us?

Why is the serpent, a symbol of inellectualism, the form that the devil takes?

If the tree is so evil, why create it in the first place? Why have it in the garden?
To give us the choice. We were given free will from the beginning. The knowledge was not evil, the act of disobeying God was the evil part.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Alliance
laughing I don't really understand that, but it late and my mind is hazy.

you know, how the bad guy in a movie explains how he's going to carry out his evil plot after he's captured the hero. And then that information is how the hero saves the day later in the movie, after he escapes from teh villains useless thugs. It's just poor planning on god's part. he's like the writer of a b movie.

Alliance
But how come there is only one way to disobey and everythign that concerns that infringement upon god's "innate" trust is a giant metaphor for intellectualism?

Nellinator
Knowledge of evil is not intellectualism. It is spiritualism. The ability to discern right from wrong cannot be determined scientifically.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Nellinator
Knowledge of evil is not intellectualism. It is spiritualism. The ability to discern right from wrong cannot be determined scientifically.

Yeah, religion has done a bang up job of it for us.

Alliance
Originally posted by Nellinator
Knowledge of evil is not intellectualism. It is spiritualism. The ability to discern right from wrong cannot be determined scientifically.

The point is why is knowledge synoymous with evil?

Nellinator
Originally posted by Alliance
The point is why is knowledge synoymous with evil?
It's not. The evil preceded the knowledge. Discerning evil is not bad.

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
The problem with the whole "parent/child" analogy is that, simply put, it doesn't work.

If it was true God would be be considered negligent by the law.

Oh wait, I forgot God doesn't obey the law. God is a parent? When he drowned the world and killed all those "evil people" - was that something a parent usually does, kill their children? And the Egyptian children. And I know few parents who would see their children suffer terribly - even the ones who actually have done something wrong let alone the ones who simply "believed the wrong thing." Yet God will let the Atheist burn, and the Hindus and Buddhists and Muslims and Catholics and everyone else who found more truth in teachings other then he, or those who believed in him but believed wrong.

So much for a proud father, proud of our free will, doing what out hearts and minds tell us is right. I mean it might be understandable if it was just really bad people. But the people who society doesn't classify as bad? Like some father sending his son or daughter to hell because she wanted to be a doctor instead of a lawyer. "I know I said you should use your free will and do what you think is right... but by that I meant follow me complelty. Sorry, off to hell with you my child. But remember while you suffer I will still love you."

And parents are meant to educate and answer questions... ooops, looks like God forgot that one. He just left a book and nothing else, and that book is far from perfect.

And parents who leave poisons in reach of children are bad parents. Whats this... God left the tree that would lead to sin within reach of the children! Bad Parent! Bad God!

And parents are meant to protect their children from harm and bad people... lets see, open up the paper... and whats this? There are children dying somewhere. A house fire... faulty wiring. Flames to hot for it to be rescued. Well, thank heavens its parent God was looking out for it. Its horrible fiery death is understandable when one has God as a parent.

And whats this? The ultimate bad man Satan... yes, God certainly protects us from him, doesn't he? Just let Satan whisper in our ears and then gives him our eternal souls if we don't live up to God's expectations.

Etc etc etc.


Why do you sound so cynical and bitter? God is righteous, holy, and just. It is abundantly indicative in your tone that you don't know God personally, which is perhaps why I perceive that you sound so hurt or frustrated with God. You seem to want to know and understand God but your anger (which is cause by your lack of knowledge about God's ways) is an impediment for you. God can and will get rid of your anger if you allow Him to love you. Maybe your earthly father failed you in some way and perhaps this is the root of your rancor towards God. But God is not your problem, I assure you of this. God has never done anything to you but good. Your enemies are satan, demons, and other people who are not fully submitted to God.

God and His ways are so past finding out (i.e. they are so profoundly mysterious except where God wills and chooses to make His ways known) that one illustration is not sufficient to adequately describe His multi-faceted ways (remember God is infinite). I used the parent-child analogy to describe the guiltlessness of God in terms of His children's behavior. But I have only dealt with one aspect of God's dealings with His creation. But you see God wears more than one hat as it were. God is not just our true Father, but He is our Judge as well. Hence, God must judge sinners for their sins. God is righteous and just. He does not take bribes and cannot be persuaded to adjudicate corruptly. That is why Adam and Eve died because they were separated from God (i.e. the Source of all life). God will not violate your free will. As much as God wants you to be saved and spend eternity at His feet learning from Him all of His mysteries, He will not override your free will. Did your parents not give you options as you grew up in their home? They gave you certain parameters (if they were good parents). They didn't just say, "Alright son, you are two years old now, you are on your own. We will let you do your own thing because we don't want to force you to do something that you don't want to do. We don't want to hinder or repress you in any way. We want you to prosper and flourish, so express yourself as you see fit." I am sure that is what your parents told you. No, that is not what they told you. I am positive that your parents laid down some ground rules to guide you and keep you headed in the right direction. So I said all that to say this: God has set boundaries for His creation but there is still ample room within the scope of God's will for us to express ourself and be full of joy unspeakable and full of glory. Furthermore, God has to allow every single person to exercise their free will. As a result, there are times when in the process of folks exercising their free will, that what they do encroaches on our lives personally. For example, has someone ever cut you off in traffic? Has someone ever spread malicious rumors about you behind your back? Have you ever been in a physical altercation? Have you ever had something stolen from you? Has someone ever verbally abused you? These are all examples of other people exercising their free will even to your detriment. But here is the good news: God will protect you from certain things that people attempt to do against you. Now, why some people are protected and others are not, is all in the wisdom, purpose, plan, and counsel of Almighty God. Some people believe that if they just have enough faith that they will not go through certain things. This is partly true. But friend, there are just some things that not even faith will override because it may just be the will of God for you to experience that. For instance, we all have an appointment with death. So when that time comes there is nothing we can do to escape it. Am I going off on a tangent here?

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Nellinator
To give us the choice. We were given free will from the beginning. The knowledge was not evil, the act of disobeying God was the evil part. Yeah the whole give people choice but not the knowledge to discern between correct and incorrect choices thing was really clever of him. Omniscient you say?

debbiejo
Originally posted by Gregory
In the year 1000? Something like that happened much more recently, I think. The Jehovas' Witnesses, maybe? That was 1844 and when Jesus didn't show they called it the invisible Rapture...

Robtard
Originally posted by debbiejo
That was 1844 and when Jesus didn't show they called it the invisible Rapture...

The more and more I think about it, this whole Rapture business sounds like alien aduction.

Mr. Sandman
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura

No, unChristened babies are said to go to Limbo by the Catholic Church -though this wont be for much longer as the Pope has decided to scrap the whole limbo doctrine.


I love how the Pope can just up and decide that.

debbiejo
Originally posted by Robtard
The more and more I think about it, this whole Rapture business sounds like alien aduction. I believe some think it is some DIVINE alien abduction.. That we are really not from here originally.

Robtard
Originally posted by debbiejo
I believe some think it is some DIVINE alien abduction.. That we are really not from here originally.

Sadly, alien intervention sounds more reasonable than a magical disembodied voice in the clouds controlling all.

Alliance
yes

debbiejo
Is truth in some beliefs..........Look at Haley's Comet.

Alliance
What about it?

debbiejo
Well my dear some believe that the Rapture is some sort of Odd of Cosmic coming to get them.

Alliance
Oh. But then again...I guess people believe anything?

Zero25
Originally posted by debbiejo
I believe some think it is some DIVINE alien abduction.. That we are really not from here originally.

Its possible...I mean how do some of the worlds greatest civilizations up and disappear?

debbiejo
They do??

spencerspider
lol yea they do?

Alliance
they do?

Naz
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
http://www.2007rapture.com/vision/

I already know what true believers in Jesus Christ are thinking that no person knows the day nor hour of the catching away (i.e. rapture) of the church. I was very cautious reading the articles from this link because I know that there are many false prophets in these last days. All I ask you to do is to read this women's testimony and judge this prophetic word by the Bible. Prayerfully study every Scripture on the subject of the rapture. Ask the Father God to reveal to you whether this woman's prophecy is true or false.


She mentions something that I have never thought of. She states that Jesus said that no one (not even Jesus) knows the day nor hour of the rapture. But here is what she said that riveted my attention: she said that no one knows the day or hour but that Jesus said nothing about year or season. She states that God gave her the year and season but not the day nor hour of the rapture. She said that Jesus will catch away His church in the summer of 2007 (June 21-September 21).


Folks, I am the most Scripturally sound, based, accurate, person that I know. I do not deviate from the Scriptures. But when she said that God gave her the year and season I was somewhat dumbfounded because it was something that I never thought about. I will let you all judge this prophecy by the Bible, for the Scriptures instruct us to judge all prophecies by the Word of God for verification.


I urge all of you to read the whole thing before coming to a conclusion. You always have the option of disregarding this article. But give it equal time.


http://www.2007rapture.com/vision/

Oh. My. God. Leave it to the dumbass protestants to try and take Revelation literally. You know what Revelation is? Some wack-story about one guy's dream. Pretty much all it means is that one day the world will come to an end and everyone will be judged. The End. Pretty much what Jesus said. Revelation does not reveal to you when, not season or year either, the end of the world will be, so stop trying to figure it out, you're not supposed to know! I mean, didn't you just say that God said that no one shall know the day or hour (meaning when in general, doesn't exculde year or season). That means you're not supposed to know! So stop trying figure it out!

And by they way, there is no such thing as a rapture. That's some bull that the protestants came up with to brainwash all of their followers into believing that Catholics are the scum of the earth.

Robtard
Originally posted by Zero25
Its possible...I mean how do some of the worlds greatest civilizations up and disappear?

I think you're confusing fact with fiction... Atlantis has yet to be proven and then again, it is said to have sunken under the seas which wouldn't necessarily mean aliens did it.

Alliance
300 droolio

Robtard
Originally posted by Alliance
300 droolio

I take it you're drooling over the kick-ass action like I am and not the 300 half naked Greek guys?

FeceMan
Originally posted by Naz
Oh. My. God. Leave it to the dumbass protestants to try and take Revelation literally. You know what Revelation is? Some wack-story about one guy's dream. Pretty much all it means is that one day the world will come to an end and everyone will be judged. The End. Pretty much what Jesus said. Revelation does not reveal to you when, not season or year either, the end of the world will be, so stop trying to figure it out, you're not supposed to know! I mean, didn't you just say that God said that no one shall know the day or hour (meaning when in general, doesn't exculde year or season). That means you're not supposed to know! So stop trying figure it out!

And by they way, there is no such thing as a rapture. That's some bull that the protestants came up with to brainwash all of their followers into believing that Catholics are the scum of the earth.
Damn, you're dumb.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive


From...not one god damned thing. He hasn't protected me when I believed, and he hasn't since I stopped believing. Where is your evidence of god? When was the last time you asked him for something and you got it? When was the last time he showed up on your behalf?

By all means, explain to us where this fanatacism come from, because we're all wondering. Where is this "good news" that has changed your life? Or are you one of those types that was all buisness in the front and party time in the back, that got "saved" (from nothing) when you were five because you were looking for something more?

Tell us where your faith comes from. When were you filled with the holy spirit? At what moment did you recieve absolute proof that your perspective was right, and 5 billion other's was wrong?

Robtard
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
From...not one god damned thing. He hasn't protected me when I believed, and he hasn't since I stopped believing. Where is your evidence of god? When was the last time you asked him for something and you got it? When was the last time he showed up on your behalf?

By all means, explain to us where this fanatacism come from, because we're all wondering. Where is this "good news" that has changed your life? Or are you one of those types that was all buisness in the front and party time in the back, that got "saved" (from nothing) when you were five because you were looking for something more?

Tell us where your faith comes from. When were you filled with the holy spirit? At what moment did you recieve absolute proof that your perspective was right, and 5 billion other's was wrong?

Dude, you're talking to a guy who thinks he can heal people by laying hands and speaking in tongues is valid proof that Jesus is God. You might as well try and convince the Grand Wizard of the KKK circa 1952 that black people are indeed humans too.

<< THERE IS MORE FROM THIS THREAD HERE >>