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I'm so sick and tired of "prefect human", Cap does superhuman things so often that I actually think Marvel believes us retarded.

Seriously, it's heart warming to see a human with no powers somehow ends up leading the most powerful team on the planet, but it's not realistic at all.

Cap needs a strength upgrade, possibly 4-5 tons.
He needs a speed upgrade. He should have instantaneous reflexes and near low in speeder moving/dodging speed (not running).
He needs something like a healing factor, not like wolvie's, but he can heal a broke bone is a few hours..His intelligence should be higher.

Basically, make cap better, and in doing so, you'll be ore realistic and people buy that crap.

**** no. That'll just lead to Cap doing even more impossible crap. It's not as if he's the only character that does things that shouldn't be possible given his stated abilities and powerset.

Just give him a healing factor, and watch him take down cosmic beings.... it worked for Wolverine...

I disagree.

Captain is Marvel's Superman..except Superman is a boyscout and Cap is a soldier.

What I'm getting at is that Cap should get an ungrade so that he can be a true leader instead of a guy who can get killed by a sharp stick.

So, give Cap Deathstroke's abilities?

I don't think he ever needs to be powered-up.

Cap's fine where he is. He was taking Class 90 punches in Civil War 3, so I think he's hardcore enough.

A power up for Captain? Does that mean a proportional increase of his jobber aura? I can only imagine what will happen then.....

Originally posted by Validus
**** no. That'll just lead to Cap doing even more impossible crap. It's not as if he's the only character that does things that shouldn't be possible given his stated abilities and powerset. I don't think so, he's fine being overhyped as it is...

Regardless, what he does is what makes him "Captain America".

Originally posted by bigbran
Just give him a healing factor, and watch him take down cosmic beings.... it worked for Wolverine... cap can do that now

Originally posted by bigbran
Just give him a healing factor, and watch him take down cosmic beings.... it worked for Wolverine...

Originally posted by long pig
I'm so sick and tired of "prefect human", Cap does superhuman things so often that I actually think Marvel believes us retarded.

Seriously, it's heart warming to see a human with no powers somehow ends up leading the most powerful team on the planet, but it's not realistic at all.

Cap needs a strength upgrade, possibly 4-5 tons.
He needs a speed upgrade. He should have instantaneous reflexes and near low in speeder moving/dodging speed (not running).
He needs something like a healing factor, not like wolvie's, but he can heal a broke bone is a few hours..His intelligence should be higher.

Basically, make cap better, and in doing so, you'll be ore realistic and people buy that crap. Batman does stuff easily as crazy.

Hell no. Definitely not.

Cap is all about human potential. He is what people in the Marvel universe strive to be like. He's an icon to millions of people, not only in America but around the world. Think he got that respect because of his colour scheme? No, its cause of his will. Cause of how he continually battles opponents that should destroy him. Cause he nevers gives up and always pushes. Cause he never backs down no matter what the challenge is. Captain America personifies human will, embodies the human spirit. The reason he's loved by so many is because he accomplishes all that he has with his human abilities. Its his humanity that speaks volumes to humans, aliens and even gods. Giving him powers strips him of all of that

Heck no! He is oerpowered as he is.

Gotta agree with marvelprince on this one

Originally posted by marvelprince
Hell no. Definitely not.

Cap is all about human potential. He is what people in the Marvel universe strive to be like. He's an icon to millions of people, not only in America but around the world. Think he got that respect because of his colour scheme? No, its cause of his will. Cause of how he continually battles opponents that should destroy him. Cause he nevers gives up and always pushes. Cause he never backs down no matter what the challenge is. Captain America personifies human will, embodies the human spirit. The reason he's loved by so many is because he accomplishes all that he has with his human abilities. Its his humanity that speaks volumes to humans, aliens and even gods. Giving him powers strips him of all of that

Er I was going to say something like that but you sumed it up quite well.

I think what they should do is elaborate on what peak human is. I have said some of this stuff before and im going to say it again....

Peak human can be enhanced.....

Kang

While Kang does not possess super-human abilities per se, he appears to be on a strength and endurance level roughly similar to Captain America, as he is able to take him on in a fairly evenly matched battle- this suggests at least some enhancement.

Also its not as simple as Cap just being one of the best combatants in the world what does this mean? Cap has heightened sense he was able to detect someone trying to ambush him by sensing a shift in the breeze. It took him one day to learn and alien martial art, this suggests that he may have taskmaster type abilities. This possibly means he can study opponents from earth in alot less time.

They need to stop saying he can only lift 800lbs. He can most likely lift a ton, 2 tons with extreme duress.

Futhermore there needs to be some consistency. The fact that Cap is peak human does not mean he cant hurt 70 toners because....

Mantis

Strength Level: Mantis possessed the normal human strength of a woman of her age, height, and build who engages in intensive regular exercise.

Mantis had extraordinary ability in the martial arts that have been developed and perfected over thousands of years by the Priests of Pama. These fighting methods place particular emphasis on the manipulation of pressure points and nerve endings on the bodies of one's opponents. Thus, by knowing the right areas of the body to strike, Mantis could stun even a being as powerful as Thor even though she herself had no superhuman strength.


Cap is not that good, but the fact of the matter is if she can do it there is nothing wrong with Cap knocking people like The Wrecker and Mr Hyde out.

I want Marvel to stop messing around and put it in black and white that his fighting skills give him the ability to stun 70 toners. If he has the ability to stun them there is also nothing wrong with him having the ability to use his skill to somehow sustain damage from them.

^Agreed. Nicely summed up. Marvel needs to clearly define these things

Oh yeah slightly OT. Nice sig Validus LOL.

No

Its more important to tell a good story than to upgrade characters or give them good showings

Thats why the 90's crashed comics.

The fights and whatnot were more important than the story

Originally posted by Grimm22
No

Its more important to tell a good story than to upgrade characters or give them good showings

Thats why the 90's crashed comics.

The fights and whatnot were more important than the story I like the early 90s era in comics. From about 90- 94/95. Thats where the IG saga and the maximum carnage thing was popular. It was around the the mid to late 90s that did it for me for a while.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Hell no. Definitely not.

Cap is all about human potential. He is what people in the Marvel universe strive to be like. He's an icon to millions of people, not only in America but around the world. Think he got that respect because of his colour scheme? No, its cause of his will. Cause of how he continually battles opponents that should destroy him. Cause he nevers gives up and always pushes. Cause he never backs down no matter what the challenge is. Captain America personifies human will, embodies the human spirit. The reason he's loved by so many is because he accomplishes all that he has with his human abilities. Its his humanity that speaks volumes to humans, aliens and even gods. Giving him powers strips him of all of that

Co-signed

Originally posted by long pig
I'm so sick and tired of "prefect human", Cap does superhuman things so often that I actually think Marvel believes us retarded.

Seriously, it's heart warming to see a human with no powers somehow ends up leading the most powerful team on the planet, but it's not realistic at all.

Cap needs a strength upgrade, possibly 4-5 tons.
He needs a speed upgrade. He should have instantaneous reflexes and near low in speeder moving/dodging speed (not running).
He needs something like a healing factor, not like wolvie's, but he can heal a broke bone is a few hours..His intelligence should be higher.

Basically, make cap better, and in doing so, you'll be ore realistic and people buy that crap.

Those power stats you want seem present in Ultimate Captain America, which is fine. Let him have a little more, and keep 616 Cap the way he is.

Originally posted by roughrider
Those power stats you want seem present in Ultimate Captain America, which is fine. Let him have a little more, and keep 616 Cap the way he is.
I'm fine with this idea. Keep 616 Cap the way he is. Upgrading him would be almost as bad as giving Batman powers.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Oh yeah slightly OT. Nice sig Validus LOL.
Yeah, I'm wondering where that came from any way. The same source as Jug6666's CW scans?

Originally posted by Accel


Yeah, I'm wondering where that came from any way. The same source as Jug6666's CW scans?

Thats not the point. Its the humour, read Civil War 4 in Civil War scans, its a joke based on something that happened in the issue. Thats what makes the sig so good.

Originally posted by Juntai
Batman does stuff easily as crazy. *sigh* I know.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Thats not the point. Its the humour, read Civil War 4 in Civil War scans, its a joke based on something that happened in the issue. Thats what makes the sig so good.
I know, but I've seen similiar scans also making fun of CW #4 and I was wondering if they all came from a certain place.

Cap is Marvels true answer to Superman.

Superman represents what humanity can achieve in morality and character.

Cap is basically Marvel flipping the bird to Superman, saying we already have the best in humanity in Cap. We don't need an alien to show us the way.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Hell no. Definitely not.

Cap is all about human potential. He is what people in the Marvel universe strive to be like. He's an icon to millions of people, not only in America but around the world. Think he got that respect because of his colour scheme? No, its cause of his will. Cause of how he continually battles opponents that should destroy him. Cause he nevers gives up and always pushes. Cause he never backs down no matter what the challenge is. Captain America personifies human will, embodies the human spirit. The reason he's loved by so many is because he accomplishes all that he has with his human abilities. Its his humanity that speaks volumes to humans, aliens and even gods. Giving him powers strips him of all of that
For a minute, I really thought this was written by Captain America's personal PR manager.

cause he never gives up... never backs down... personifies human will...

Can't we say exactly the same thing about 98 % of the Marvel and DC universe ? I thought so.

Human abilities ? Feat wise, CA is far above a human, peak human or no peak human.

Originally posted by Accel
I know, but I've seen similiar scans also making fun of CW #4 and I was wondering if they all came from a certain place.

Oh, dunno.


Originally posted by Tha C-Master
*sigh* I know.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
For a minute, I really thought this was written by Captain America's personal PR manager.

cause he never gives up... never backs down... personifies human will...

Can't we say exactly the same thing about 98 % of the Marvel and DC universe ? I thought so.



*sigh* Always got to put a downer on things. Anyway not exactly. He may be far above human but its the fact that he is still considered "human" and still does the things that other superhumans can do.

There is a sense of purity about him that seems to get him to places that other heroes cant. Cap can lift Thor's hammer, he was I think the first to be recruited by the Godess. People dont just pick him as a leader because of his brains its his determination as well, if he was just another hero he wouldnt be leader. Also in Secret Wars it was Cap who had to fight omnipotent Dr Doom, not the others.

Originally posted by Alfheim
*sigh* Always got to put a downer on things.
So ?

And you don't see the contradiction ?

Hmm, to "fight", you mean to be destroyed a few times by Doom... wasn't exactly a fight, was it ?

Back to topic : why would he need an upgrade ? He already does crazy stuff he shouldn't be doing.

Can't we just have well written stories that take into account
what everybody's powers and limitations are?
If a writer has to "upgrade" a character to sell more units,
then they're not much of a writer now....

Originally posted by Accel
I know, but I've seen similiar scans also making fun of CW #4 and I was wondering if they all came from a certain place.
Yeah, they're all from the same parody issue. I can host the file if you want it.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
I like the early 90s era in comics. From about 90- 94/95. Thats where the IG saga and the maximum carnage thing was popular. It was around the the mid to late 90s that did it for me for a while.

Some things in the 90's were cool

A lot of the art was good in the 90's

The problem was corporate greed and no inventiveness

For years I used to hate Captain America(the character) but after I started reading Avengers and some of his comics I found out that my hatred was unjustified. He is a great character. That said, I really dont think he needs an upgrade, his character is fine the way it is.

Originally posted by Validus
Yeah, they're all from the same parody issue. I can host the file if you want it.
Does that mean it's all from a printed parody issue (i.e. not just from a parody website)?

If so, you don't have to host it, but I would appreciate it if you told me where it came from specifically.

Originally posted by Validus
**** no. That'll just lead to Cap doing even more impossible crap. It's not as if he's the only character that does things that shouldn't be possible given his stated abilities and powerset.

Agreed.

i remember he got an upgrade. once but in an alternate Universe. where some one mucked with the serum later on in his life and he was strong as classic spidey....but all i can say is.....*puts on a totally gay voice* HATED IT!!

Originally posted by Validus
Yeah, they're all from the same parody issue. I can host the file if you want it. do it or PM me a website por favor

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
For a minute, I really thought this was written by Captain America's personal PR manager.

I do try to get him on the best late night shows

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
cause he never gives up... never backs down... personifies human will...

Can't we say exactly the same thing about 98 % of the Marvel and DC universe ? I thought so.
.

You could, it just wouldn't be true. You'd be hard pressed to find someone more resilent than Cap.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Human abilities ? Feat wise, CA is far above a human, peak human or no peak human.

So are Daredevil, Batman, Green Arrow, etc. I mean in terms of the comics. You know, the books where humans can achieve the feats those guys can.

Anyway, whats the point of this. Do you disagree with my stance or just couldn't pass up the opportunity to try to pick apart a post?

Originally posted by marvelprince
Anyway, whats the point of this. Do you disagree with my stance or just couldn't pass up the opportunity to try to pick apart a post?
I read your post and didn't agree with it because I thought you were exaggerating. I replied to your post in a normal way with good arguments, and suddenly I have to justify myself why I post here ?

Sad.

I still say give him a healing factor, and he can be taking down Hulk with his hands too....

Exactly, he does crazy stuff he shouldn't be able to do. Give him an upgrade and then he'll have an excuse.

I'm tired of seeing Cap fight friggin' cosmics when he's just peak human.

Originally posted by long pig
Exactly, he does crazy stuff he shouldn't be able to do. Give him an upgrade and then he'll have an excuse.

I'm tired of seeing Cap fight friggin' cosmics when he's just peak human.

Right after, we give Batman an upgrade...

Originally posted by Draco69
Right after, we give Batman an upgrade...
D.C streetlevelers are different. They almost always are more powerful simply because they have to compete with higher tier superhumans.

I'm ok with D.C being that way, Marvel shouldn't be that way. Cap has no reason to be doing the stupid shit he does with his powerscale.

Originally posted by long pig
D.C streetlevelers are different. They almost always are more powerful simply because they have to compete with higher tier superhumans.

I'm ok with D.C being that way, Marvel shouldn't be that way. Cap has no reason to be doing the stupid shit he does with his powerscale.

Whatcha mean?

It's universal for BOTH universes for streetlevelers like Cap and Bat to be (most of the time) at their correct powerlevels when they're in their own environment.

However when they interacted with superpowered people, their power levels rise rapidly.

Both Bats and Cap are victims of this notion. And they're not alone. Nightwing rises in power when he's with the Outsiders. Daredevil can suddenly take Thor's hammer and Iron Man's sonic attacks when he's working with the Avengers.

It goes both ways....

Originally posted by Draco69
Whatcha mean?

It's universal for BOTH universes for streetlevelers like Cap and Bat to be (most of the time) at their correct powerlevels when they're in their own environment.

However when they interacted with superpowered people, their power levels rise rapidly.

Both Bats and Cap are victims of this notion. And they're not alone. Nightwing rises in power when he's with the Outsiders. Daredevil can suddenly take Thor's hammer and Iron Man's sonic attacks when he's working with the Avengers.

It goes both ways....
Nah, have you ever read the old Cap comics? His average showings there were way above his Avenger showings.

I see it as either give the bastard an upgrade, or stop making him out to be a superhuman.

Originally posted by marvelprince


Anyway, whats the point of this. Do you disagree with my stance or just couldn't pass up the opportunity to try to pick apart a post?


You know what I mean? Im glad im not the only one who noticed.


Originally posted by long pig
Nah, have you ever read the old Cap comics? His average showings there were way above his Avenger showings.

I see it as either give the bastard an upgrade, or stop making him out to be a superhuman.

Yeah but why are you worrying about old stuff for?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah but why are you worrying about old stuff for?
Agree. I'm halfway through the current Cap series and he seems pretty down to Earth in power. At least as far as being human goes for comic book characters in general.

Originally posted by Accel
Does that mean it's all from a printed parody issue (i.e. not just from a parody website)?

If so, you don't have to host it, but I would appreciate it if you told me where it came from specifically.
It's from a website but its down these days.

Here's a torrent link for it though.

http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/482103/1154724/

A power upgrade?

Why? Because he got his ass handed to him by Iron Man?

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
I read your post and didn't agree with it because I thought you were exaggerating. I replied to your post in a normal way with good arguments, and suddenly I have to justify myself why I post here ?

Sad.

Wow. Take it easy. I only asked cause I couldn't tell whether you disagreed with me or whether you agreed but thought I was going a little overboard with my metaphors, similies, etc.

Again, I can't tell where you stand on this. Do you think Captain America needs an upgrade or do you think he's fine the way he is?

Isn't it enough he's immortal, because of the super solider serum?

Originally posted by Validus
It's from a website but its down these days.

Here's a torrent link for it though.

http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/482103/1154724/
Shoot. I can never download torrents for some reason.

If it's all right with you, then I am now asking if you could host it for me, since it doesn't look like I'll be able to see it any other way.

This just proves that Peak human is strong in marvel.


Peak-human in Marvel does not mean just a man in his prime like say Batman or Muhumad Ali.


Peak human means Peak of human potential or the maximum human level. If you'd take the time to think about what that means, you'd know its something else.




First off even real life humans can do extreme feats like the old lady that lifted a car to save here child(adrenaline) or martial art masters that kick through lots of bricks and bend steel bars. And then there's the real-human always breaking new records in strength/speed.

Then there's already comic book humans like Batman or Shang-chi that destroy even real life human extreme feats.

Now take it too another level with a actual enhanced human with tons of physical train and martial arts. As the great Doctor that created the serum stated.....

Originally posted by Alfheim
You know what I mean? Im glad im not the only one who noticed.
Erm right. Whatever. Thanos wins
Originally posted by Marvelprince
Again, I can't tell where you stand on this. Do you think Captain America needs an upgrade or do you think he's fine the way he is?
No, no upgrade. He's fine the way he is. Being the best street level hero there is, is nothing to be ashamed of.

I'm not an upgrade fan by the way.

I always believed that Cap needs a healing factor.

Originally posted by long pig
I'm so sick and tired of "prefect human", Cap does superhuman things so often that I actually think Marvel believes us retarded.

Seriously, it's heart warming to see a human with no powers somehow ends up leading the most powerful team on the planet, but it's not realistic at all.

Cap needs a strength upgrade, possibly 4-5 tons.
He needs a speed upgrade. He should have instantaneous reflexes and near low in speeder moving/dodging speed (not running).
He needs something like a healing factor, not like wolvie's, but he can heal a broke bone is a few hours..His intelligence should be higher.

Basically, make cap better, and in doing so, you'll be ore realistic and people buy that crap.

No.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Erm right. Whatever. Thanos wins

No, no upgrade. He's fine the way he is. Being the best street level hero there is, is nothing to be ashamed of.

I'm not an upgrade fan by the way.

Ditto. If it ain't broke then fix it

Actually im getting pissed off by all these people like Wolverina and Elektra gettting upgrades. I like Cap the way he is but its like everyone is getting more powerful. Maybe thats why people say he has a joobber aura. If Cap has an upgrade hes not Cap anymore, but at the sametime he needs to keep up with rest of the MU.

Back in the 1970's Cap was given outright "superstrength." I thought it was a great addition to the character, but eventually they phased it out.

I agree, Captain America should have more in the way of "super" power rather than the old "peak of human perfection" thing, that would allow Thor to kill him with one punch.

No. Cap is peak human and virtually immortal; that's enough. The reason he and Batman consistently do so well punching above their weight class, is because both are such smart, decisive strategists who find the weak points in everything and exploit it. Plus, it's an unwritten rule that comic readers like seeing the underdog do well against an overpowered opponent.

We just have to live with the suspension of disbelief that comes with Cap's Shield and the Batkick, and how they seem to be reality warping attacks within the fragile logic of comics.

Originally posted by roughrider
No. Cap is peak human and virtually immortal; that's enough. The reason he and Batman consistently do so well punching above their weight class, is because both are such smart, decisive strategists who find the weak points in everything and exploit it. Plus, it's an unwritten rule that comic readers like seeing the underdog do well against an overpowered opponent.

We just have to live with the suspension of disbelief that comes with Cap's Shield and the Batkick, and how they seem to be reality warping attacks within the fragile logic of comics.