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Somewhat lengthy, so i apologize in advance

So, i was at work today, and as usual due to the boreing nature of my job i slipped into some thought. And i had an idea. Kinda. im sure alot of you have probably pondered this every now and then. And im sorry mods if this is not the correct place to put this thread but i think this is probably the best possible place, or rather one that would give the most feedback. I also feel perhaps we can all have a disgussion about this? I hope atleast, so again i apologizwe.

Anyways, the recent but very small resurge of Game-Comic related versus threads has prompted me to wonder if it is possible to SLIGHTLY integrate some video game characters into this thread. I know 'on paper' it sounds rather messy, and to some extent i agree it could potentially cause some messyness if incorrectly implimented. But the way i see it, the thread is allready regulated in a way that technically excludes some comic-iterations (did i use that word right) of characters (IE banned manga.. star wars.. etc). So the mods here, and everyone else as a general concensus has for the most part, shown the ability to excorsize disgression in createing threads. And i think there could be some potentially interesting debates in this fourm in addition to the ones that allready exist.

Now i know some of you might say, "well why dont you just go to the game versus thread?"

Im sure some of you have tried to have a good debate in there and have come to realize they are few and far between. Not to mention the fourm is absolutely dead.
The grande total posts from the game versus fourm is a dissappointing 49,663; versus this fourms outstanding 700k+ (Which i think is also the most active in the entire fourms, aside from the MISC threads)

Ive tried to have a decent debate in the game versus fourms, and the only one i ever remember having was the Goku versus superman one which innevitabely got closed. But anyways, back on topic.
There are some INCREDIBLE debaters on this thread, wether you all realize it or not and you are all very knoweldgeable on a large spectrum of characters. And of coruse if your debateing here, you probably are into videogames and alot of other "nerdy" things ("nerds" are a superior race :] so i mean that as a compliment). So i mean, why not?
Granted there should be some restrictions, and i think only characters with.. "content" for lack of a better word, should be integrated. By content i for instance a character like mario should not be allowed. because of a somewhat shallow explination of his "powers" and the fact that one cannot contrast him to a realistic incarnation, or rather parallel him to another fictional character. Ide be hard pressed to argue that mario could beat thor on merit of jumping on Thor's skull. A sort of ambiguous character per-say should not be allowed, nor should a character with an small and relatively "insignificant" or "support" role in a game, if that makes sense. A character that should be allowed would be on the other hand. i guess since he was recently in a thread ill use Kratos as an example. From playing the game and having a general understanding of greek mythos (or roman?) you can have a pertty good idea what he is capable of and i feel you can logically debate his attributes with another person. Another character that comes to mind would be Kain from soul reaver. His persona has alot of depth, his capabilities are pertty clearly addressed from playing some of the games in the Legacy of Kain series. Solid snake has been in here a few times (but i do understand thier is also an MGS comic.) I think the majority of people are are capable of discerning between who you could have a sound debate with and who you could not, and at the same time i understand that some of you may not be as good at determing who you should put in a thread.

Perhaps its just me & i do understand that even how the thread is now, there are still PLENTY of combinations for character matches. But at the same time, lately ive been seeing alot of resurrected threads, recycled threads (which do get closed) and multiple threads like "Daredevil & Batman vs captain america & nightwing", on the same page as "Wolverine & Daredevil vs Batman & Captain america". In this case wolverine would infact add a different aspect to the thread, but i feel Overall those two threads have extremely similar qualities. and i duno, at times its just a little uninteresting. Please dont take this as me complaining becuase i love debateing on these threads and there are still plenty of fresh ideas as well as seldomly used characters. It just seems as if tehse fresh ideas are gradually, if only very gradually becomeing more and more sparse. And i also understand this is a pertty monumental change in this fourm if in the rare and unlikely chance it does get allowed. I guess im just wondering if any of you feel the same way or have been perhaps having the same delima, or if its just my personal fantasy or something. lol

anyways, ide like to disguss this matter with you guys, and perhaps the mods can look at this and provide some imput. maybe we can all come to a conclusion. or maybe i just wasted alot of time

but regardless of what happens, this fourm is golden and it wont deterr me from coming here, not that that matters anyway though. lol


disguss?

Nope

Several reasons

1. You already stated the messiness , and it wouldn't ease up. Dumbasses would make Mario threads and such and such , as well as the difficulty in trying to enforce the rules you described

2. Unlike comics games cheat. Take the Dante thread , a few DMC obsessed numbskulls continuously made 'Dante-Threads' stating that he was' Skyfather' simply because he defeated Mundus who shows SOME sky-fatherish power. Or to put it more loosely , a VG characters power is never defined

Originally posted by grey fox
Nope

Several reasons

1. You already stated the messiness , and it wouldn't ease up. Dumbasses would make Mario threads and such and such , as well as the difficulty in trying to enforce the rules you described

2. Unlike comics games cheat. Take the Dante thread , a few DMC obsessed numbskulls continuously made 'Dante-Threads' stating that he was' Skyfather' simply because he defeated Mundus who shows SOME sky-fatherish power. Or to put it more loosely , a VG characters power is never defined

I agree about the messiness part, INITIALLY

I mean clearly i could be wrong but i think after people got the idea, the messiness would start to ease up. And plus i think its moreso of the people taht alrleady post repeat threads and such that would be causing the messiness, not the more expirenced people here which accounts for alot of us.

And yes, i understand some aspects of games are different, Ie last bosses and stuff like that, makeing some feats hard to assess. I do firmly agree with that and i understand that would be a problem, but i think it is a problem that can be solved

Not to mention, superman has some feats that eclipse human comprehension, far beyond the level of the Dante vs Mundus example

Hulk vs. Tetris, the ultimate stalemate.

Honestly? I think it has potential. But it has to be done PERFECTLY, or people will either cry, yell (if you can call it that in text form), or b****. <==(Dammnit, stop censoring me, KMC!)

Basically, what I mean is that there will have to be very well-defined stipulations against the game character in order for certain matches to make sense. Know what I mean?

Like I said, if done right, it can definitely work. And it can work well, too.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Hulk vs. Tetris, the ultimate stalemate.

Wolverine wins.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Honestly? I think it has potential. But it has to be done PERFECTLY, or people will either cry, yell (if you can call it that in text form), or *****.

Basically, what I mean is that there will have to be very well-defined stipulations against the game character in order for certain matches to make sense. Know what I mean?

Like I said, if done right, it can definitely work. And it can work well, too.


(LOL c-master)

Anyways, yes i fully agree. the Overwhelming majority of us here are sensable enough to understand what would work and what wouldent. For the most part atleast, and even still alot of the problems that could arise are allready problems that existed and were solved withinn this thread as it is now.

For isntance, a certian level of PIS could also be applied to video game characters as in, Like the example Grey fox used. You could classify that as i duno, GIS? or some acronym. Things that are supposed to seem "impossible" but were used in the context of the game because you know, its a game

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
(LOL c-master)

Anyways, yes i fully agree. the Overwhelming majority of us here are sensable enough to understand what would work and what wouldent. For the most part atleast, and even still alot of the problems that could arise are allready problems that existed and were solved withinn this thread as it is now.

For isntance, a certian level of PIS could also be applied to video game characters as in, Like the example Grey fox used. You could classify that as i duno, GIS? or some acronym. Things that are supposed to seem "impossible" but were used in the context of the game because you know, its a game

Exactly.

Few things:

1. Besides the OTF, this is the busiest forum on KMC. Allowing game characters in would just open the proverbial flood-gates for even more threads than we have already.

2. We're already rather lenient with quite a few characters. Characters are supposed to be "primarily comics" so even people like Master Chief and Snake (which we have allowed) could be closed by those rules. If there's a lot of interest, generally I allow it.

3. But if we set a precedent with a few characters, there's no way to draw a line. It would end up being a nightmare, and either Tron or I would get pissed and close down a bunch of threads. I'd rather stop itnow before that happens.

4. There's no comon ground between most games and comics. It won't result in good discussion a lot of the time, and more often than not cross-genre battles end in shouting matches that need to be dealt with. More work for me.

5. These forums are a privilege, not a right. I understand that occasionally there's desire for more than the comic vs. forum has to offer, but I'd advise you to be happy with what there is. There's no good way (other than using the game forum, which many don't want to) to provide an outlet for everything that everyone wants to talk about, so try to make the best of what we do have....since it's really pretty good, as discussion forums go.

...

Hopefully that clears the situation up. My apologies for not offering a response you wanted to hear, but that's where we stand, both me personally and KMC in general.

I'll let this go for a bit, but will close it eventually.

this shit is stupid

Originally posted by great_dane
this shit is stupid

Why was my "b****" censored...and yet great_dane's "shit" is left untouched? Digi? Do you happen to know the answer to this?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Why was my "*****" censored...and yet great_dane's "shit" is left untouched? Digi? Do you happen to know the answer to this?

Because you touch yourself at night.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Because you touch yourself at night.





Damn. Good answer.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Few things:

1. Besides the OTF, this is the busiest forum on KMC. Allowing game characters in would just open the proverbial flood-gates for even more threads than we have already.

2. We're already rather lenient with quite a few characters. Characters are supposed to be "primarily comics" so even people like Master Chief and Snake (which we have allowed) could be closed by those rules. If there's a lot of interest, generally I allow it.

3. But if we set a precedent with a few characters, there's no way to draw a line. It would end up being a nightmare, and either Tron or I would get pissed and close down a bunch of threads. I'd rather stop itnow before that happens.

4. There's no comon ground between most games and comics. It won't result in good discussion a lot of the time, and more often than not cross-genre battles end in shouting matches that need to be dealt with. More work for me.

5. These forums are a privilege, not a right. I understand that occasionally there's desire for more than the comic vs. forum has to offer, but I'd advise you to be happy with what there is. There's no good way (other than using the game forum, which many don't want to) to provide an outlet for everything that everyone wants to talk about, so try to make the best of what we do have....since it's really pretty good, as discussion forums go.

...

Hopefully that clears the situation up. My apologies for not offering a response you wanted to hear, but that's where we stand, both me personally and KMC in general.

I'll let this go for a bit, but will close it eventually.

And thats another thing, i understand that its pertty much you and Tron here moderateing and i could see it getting slightly overwhelming. Ide say more mods, but i know taht entails alot. So for now ill just set that aside.

Anyways, I know it seems daunting to set a standard for game characters that would be allowed but i really think that it can be done. There are allready some regulants on the characters that exist here, and granted this fourm has been around for ages its a little easier to understand why they are so firmly in place. Not to mention coming into this thread and seeing how its titled "Comic book versus fourms", most people came with an understanding of what is and what is not allowed here. So in that aspect, i could see why it would be difficult to <i> initially</i> enforce new rules.

but with time i think it could turn out very well. there are obviously alot more game charaacters than there are comic book characters, which poses another interesting problem but i think IF we all thought about it long enough, we could come to some sort of consensus of what should and shuoldent be allowed here. I just strongly, strongly feel that there is alot of interesting content in the more Noteable <b>main</b> characters.

again i hope this doesnt sound ungreatful becuase its not about that at all. i really like these threads. i just think its worth a try, if we all
work togehter

cheesy
:d

I have another proposal: Why not make a running list of the characters who may not be primarily comic characters, but are acceptable this forum, and sticky it at the top of the forum? Then, the power will reside with DigiMark and Tron as to who to let in, and there will be a very clear "line" drawn between who's allowed and who isn't.

For example, someone like Master Chief could be included in the list. And Solid Snake. Basically, whoever DigiMark/Tron can agree on, is fair game.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Damn. Good answer.

Originally posted by H. S. 6
I have another proposal: Why not make a running list of the characters who may not be primarily comic characters, but are acceptable this forum, and sticky it at the top of the forum? Then, the power will reside with DigiMark and Tron as to who to let in, and there will be a very clear "line" drawn between who's allowed and who isn't.

For example, someone like Master Chief could be included in the list. And Solid Snake. Basically, whoever DigiMark/Tron can agree on, is fair game.


WOW!
i was thinking that too actually!!!

why not set up a sticky of What game characters are allowed??

that would solve alot of problems instantly


and withinn the thread we could perhaps deabte who should be allowd and who shouldent. It would absolutely work

geniuis!!

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Because you touch yourself at night.





That's MY line. cry

Unlike OTF people are on here all the time, they just think more before they post.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
WOW!
i was thinking that too actually!!!

why not set up a sticky of What game characters are allowed??

that would solve alot of problems instantly


and withinn the thread we could perhaps deabte who should be allowd and who shouldent. It would absolutely work

geniuis!!

I absolutly agree !!!

Originally posted by complexbrother
I absolutly agree !!!


yes

and i sincerely hope the mods reconsider this
or atelast give it some thought. I think taht might be the best possible way to keep things undercontrol

By the way guys, I don't know what you consider "dead" but since I logged on a few hours ago, about 20 threads in the games vs. forum have had new posts.

Just because a forum isn't flooded with a page of new threads a day doesn't mean it's dead. I appreciate the intelligent discussion about this matter, but the fact remains that the large majority of these characters are not going to be allowed in this forum.

And it's not just about Mods having more work. With the number of threads we get anyway, it would become overly messy and cluttered for every member. I have to think about forum upkeep, not just myself.

...we don't really need a list because the list isn't that long. Godzilla, Snake, Master Chief, Predator. That's about all I can think of. And there can't be more than 2-3 others besides those, and these are all fairly well-known.

So once again, it's not the popular answer, so I apologize for that, but expanding the forum to include characters that are acceptable and encouraged in another forum is pretty much out of the question.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
...we don't really need a list because the list isn't that long. Godzilla, Snake, Master Chief, Predator. That's about all I can think of. And there can't be more than 2-3 others besides those, and these are all fairly well-known.

Also a few anime characters like Guyver and Vash (it's a very short list there too.

On the main subject, Digi pretty much summed it up for me. But to add on, it's a decent idea, IN THEORY. But, I've modded this forum long enough to know that it wouldn't work, regardless of what we try. Trust us, it's hard enough keeping this forum tolerable as it is, imagine if we added even more to it (another reason why I think a general VS forum is a bad idea too). I'd like to see it work out, but I already know that it wouldn't. Sorry to disappoint.

As soon as I made a thread in the Game vs Forum(Wolverine/Sabrtooth vs Scorpion/Sub Zero) they closed it. So you can't go to the Game Forum. Meybe we should make an Ultimate Vs. Forum for mixed threads like Superman vs Goku vs Harry Potter vs Darth Vader. I don't know, just an idea.

Originally posted by grey fox
Nope

Several reasons

1. You already stated the messiness , and it wouldn't ease up. Dumbasses would make Mario threads and such and such , as well as the difficulty in trying to enforce the rules you described

2. Unlike comics games cheat. Take the Dante thread , a few DMC obsessed numbskulls continuously made 'Dante-Threads' stating that he was' Skyfather' simply because he defeated Mundus who shows SOME sky-fatherish power. Or to put it more loosely , a VG characters power is never defined yes

it's a good idea and has some potential but like stated before the level of contorl would be quite difficult..... if i may i have a suggestion why not try out a small scaled experimental trial run? create a seperate private forum and invite only a select few amout of users in the ones we know to be fairly reasonalbe good debaters and unbias with there character stance you let this little project run for about a month or 2 to work out the kinks and if it proves to work the next step is intergration this would naturally be a long and slow process allowing small amounts of new posters on at a time going at a slow but steady pace untill atlast the whole forum gets updated. a good starting number for this experiment would be about 20 posters, seeing how this is extra's idea it would also be a good idea to put him in charge of this forum as a sort of acting monitor.... this is just an idea though

Originally posted by lando005
it's a good idea and has some potential but like stated before the level of contorl would be quite difficult..... if i may i have a suggestion why not try out a small scaled experimental trial run? create a seperate private forum and invite only a select few amout of users in the ones we know to be fairly reasonalbe good debaters and unbias with there character stance you let this little project run for about a month or 2 to work out the kinks and if it proves to work the next step is intergration this would naturally be a long and slow process allowing small amounts of new posters on at a time going at a slow but steady pace untill atlast the whole forum gets updated. a good starting number for this experiment would be about 20 posters, seeing how this is extra's idea it would also be a good idea to put him in charge of this forum as a sort of acting monitor.... this is just an idea though

Forums don't just pop up. It requires a ton of interest, a ton of mod approval, then a bunch of work by Raz to set it up.

In other words, nothing experimental would be possible, simply because it's too much work for something that will likely be temporary.

And like I said, the games forum isn't nearly as dead as you people think. And they normally welcome cross-genre battles much more than we do here because they get less traffic.

...

So please just read my other posts in this thread. I can sympathize with the desire for this, but there's really very little that you can't do right now if you use the proper forums on KMC.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Forums don't just pop up. It requires a ton of interest, a ton of mod approval, then a bunch of work by Raz to set it up.

In other words, nothing experimental would be possible, simply because it's too much work for something that will likely be temporary.

And like I said, the games forum isn't nearly as dead as you people think. And they normally welcome cross-genre battles much more than we do here because they get less traffic.

...

So please just read my other posts in this thread. I can sympathize with the desire for this, but there's really very little that you can't do right now if you use the proper forums on KMC. So would this mean that we can't have a comic vs games forum?
We have a damn Terminator forum, a Lost forum, etc.
I'm not saying to do it, but it would get traffic. People from the games forum, and people from the Comic forums would come together.

I understand that it would be hard, but the payoff would be worth it, you know what I mean? Look at how many Games vs Comic charatcers there are now, people just can't wait to debate Sephiroth vs Silver Surfer.
Plus, Raz could appoint some new mods in that forum, if some mods don't want to do it.

Originally posted by bigbran
So would this mean that we can't have a comic vs games forum?
We have a damn Terminator forum, a Lost forum, etc.
I'm not saying to do it, but it would get traffic. People from the games forum, and people from the Comic forums would come together.

I understand that it wouldn't be hard, but the payoff would be worth it, you know what I mean? Look at how many Games vs Comic charatcers there are now, people just can't wait to debate Sephiroth vs Silver Surfer.
Plus, Raz could appoint some new mods in that forum, if some mods don't want to do it.


i agree with this post completely. i know thers room for it somewehre and there are some incredible debaters in these fourms, thiers not much more i personalyl can say, but withinn certian guidelines, i think this can be a really good non-messy idea

Like the mods said, it would sound nice, but it would be hellish on large forums... I've dealt with fanboys for ages to know it would be a migrane, because most of the matches would be inconclusive. That and there are so many medias for some characters, like SF, that everyone has their on distinct perception of them, which makes it a pain to debate.

Originally posted by bigbran
So would this mean that we can't have a comic vs games forum?
We have a damn Terminator forum, a Lost forum, etc.
I'm not saying to do it, but it would get traffic. People from the games forum, and people from the Comic forums would come together.

I understand that it would be hard, but the payoff would be worth it, you know what I mean? Look at how many Games vs Comic charatcers there are now, people just can't wait to debate Sephiroth vs Silver Surfer.
Plus, Raz could appoint some new mods in that forum, if some mods don't want to do it.

Couple things:

Everyone outside the vs. forums hates the vs. forums. No joke. Getting a new vs. forum on KMC would be like convincing Mungi that Alpha Flight sucks. A new one definitely won't be happening...we've already tried with anime vs. and a couple others. This would be no different.

Second, C-Master put it well. Cross genre battles suck for everyone involved. 90% of the time it's inconclusive, and often you just get fanboys from both sides yelling at each other. Don't believe me? Open a comic vs. SW in the SW forums, then open the same one here. Then watch the fur fly. (...don't actually do this though). But it's a nightmare for everyone.

Third, do we really need to know if Surfer would beat Sephiroth? I mean, really? Comic battles at least make a bit more sense because they exist (largely) in the same context as one another.

And to reiterate: We already have a "non-messy" solution. Use the game forum when possible, and the few that have a lot of interest and a decent number of comics, we allow in this forum. It's really not a bad system, and we're really only talking about a very small percentage of threads that don't get allowed.

And this forum is busy enough...on busy days we rival the OTF. I won't have it expand, and a new forum isn't going to happen (not because of me personally, but because it just won't happen from an administrative perspective). Use the games forum, or this forum when you can for stuff like this, or don't. Your choice, really.

I know Digi you have said your words on the matter but I have an idea and I just want to say it.

Anyways stick a forum at the top stating Off-Topic debates
or something like that
Where people have to go in and request whether or not they can make a thread invloving all non comic characters.

You go through and PM to people the ones you approve that way you can limit the number of threads mad while not being overloaded with to many things to do.

Originally posted by newjak86
I know Digi you have said your words on the matter but I have an idea and I just want to say it.

Anyways stick a forum at the top stating Off-Topic debates
or something like that
Where people have to go in and request whether or not they can make a thread invloving all non comic characters.

You go through and PM to people the ones you approve that way you can limit the number of threads mad while not being overloaded with to many things to do.

This actually sounds doable. An all-emcompassing thread for "off-topic" battles, right? I'd rather not be approving or turning down numerous threads (that would get tiring in a hurry) but if we just sort of lumped them together into a thread or two.

I still say 90% of the fights they're complaining about would be allowed (and would also be intelligently discussed) in the games forum. But I'll keep this idea in mind.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
This actually sounds doable. An all-emcompassing thread for "off-topic" battles, right? I'd rather not be approving or turning down numerous threads (that would get tiring in a hurry) but if we just sort of lumped them together into a thread or two.

I still say 90% of the fights they're complaining about would be allowed (and would also be intelligently discussed) in the games forum. But I'll keep this idea in mind. Perhaps but it would have to be one debate going on at one time we couldn't have 40 going on.


And the approving thing would be eas jst scroll down the list and whatever you think could be made into a thread just PM the person and tell them its ok and anybody who doesn't get a PM in return was turned down.

Originally posted by grey fox
Nope

Good enough for me.

While it would be fun to argue, and while I am a HUGE fan of Devil May Cry's Dante, the arguments would be inconclusive, and ultimately frustrating, I expect...

Besides, the characters in games usually have counterparts in the comics anyway...

well its good to hear everyones opiniion on this matter, and atleast we got something otu there
ya knawess
and i appreciate it mods for responding

Yeah. I mean, I would love to write how Dinalfos the videogame character hacks everyone to pieces, but it wouldn't work. Sadly.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Yeah. I mean, I would love to write how Dinalfos the videogame character hacks everyone to pieces, but it wouldn't work. Sadly.
T'is true