Maybe Im missing Something...

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Pirates life fo
I am hoping people can come up with a list of 'facts' from the movies that prove Jack and Liz will end up together. Everyone is sure that it will happen and maybe I am just missing something. What clues have been given to us?

Mistypirate
What's your interest in this? Go watch the movie again.

Pirates life fo
I have seen the movie. I just dont see how everything is pointing to Jack and Liz. Is there an interest there? Sure there is. Jack is the older, brave, daring pirate. Liz is the young fresh noble lady. Does that mean that it's now destiny that they get together?

Mistypirate
You re welcome to browse around this site, there are a bunch of threads that talk about specific scenes that suggest the J/L characters have feelings for each other. I don't say that they are going to end up together, they may or they may not. But there were to many hints in DMC that suggested that these two characters felt something for each other. And there are to many facts that pointed to this, that it would be impossible to leave it unnoticed in the 3rd movie.

savvysparrow
No one is certain, but I think if you've seen the movie, you ought to be aware of some things. The first is that the writers made use of a lot of heavy foreshadowing and symbolism. (They foreshadowed Jack's impending death more than once during the course of DMC).

There are other symbols, such as the compass, (if you haven't read the writers explanation of the compass, I suggest you see that as a point of reference as well). Also, there is a matter of the camera work. Whenever Elizabeth gazes upon Jack through the camera's eyes, the angle is always tilted up, symbolically, it's meant to state that she admires him. Also, there is the foreshadowing/symbolism of the wedding, or lack there of. First, it was raining on Will and Elizabeth's raining day, which is a sign of bad luck in Western culture.....

I could go on and on, but I think it would be more beneficial for you to watch the movie again with a more analytical frame of mind. That will lead you to a different interpretation. Some people think they're destined to be together, that there will be this mushy declaration of love.
I'm skeptical because that's not what the relationship is about. But it does seem as though the writers are heavily implying that Jack and Elizabeth are a better match for each other. Also, you might want to think about also reviewing the first movie's deleted scenes for a frame of reference for the second.

And, if you're still doubtful, I have other information that may in fact enlighten you from a more impartial judge.

It's not so much that it seems like d

Pirates life fo
Well for one I started the thread so I wouldnt have to browse through several thousand posts. And it wont be left unnoticed in PTOC 3. It wont just be forgotten but we cant say what brilliant writing may be done to change that. Nothing may change. It might end up being extremely predictable and everyone is right.

akanai
look at Mistypirate's image under her "peas in a pod love" wink

savvysparrow
No one is certain, but I think if you've seen the movie, you ought to be aware of some things. The first is that the writers made use of a lot of heavy foreshadowing and symbolism. (They foreshadowed Jack's impending death more than once during the course of DMC).

There are other symbols, such as the compass, (if you haven't read the writers explanation of the compass, I suggest you see that as a point of reference as well). Also, there is a matter of the camera work. Whenever Elizabeth gazes upon Jack through the camera's eyes, the angle is always tilted up, symbolically, it's meant to state that she admires him. Also, there is the foreshadowing/symbolism of the wedding, or lack there of. First, it was raining on Will and Elizabeth's raining day, which is a sign of bad luck in Western culture.....

I could go on and on, but I think it would be more beneficial for you to watch the movie again with a more analytical frame of mind. That will lead you to a different interpretation. Some people think they're destined to be together, that there will be this mushy declaration of love.
I'm skeptical because that's not what the relationship is about. But it does seem as though the writers are heavily implying that Jack and Elizabeth are a better match for each other. Also, you might want to think about also reviewing the first movie's deleted scenes for a frame of reference for the second.

And, if you're still doubtful, I have other information that may in fact enlighten you from a more impartial judge.

It's not so much that it seems like it's destiny, but almost as though the writers have made it inevitable.

savvysparrow
Originally posted by savvysparrow
No one is certain, but I think if you've seen the movie, you ought to be aware of some things. The first is that the writers made use of a lot of heavy foreshadowing and symbolism. (They foreshadowed Jack's impending death more than once during the course of DMC).

There are other symbols, such as the compass, (if you haven't read the writers explanation of the compass, I suggest you see that as a point of reference as well). Also, there is a matter of the camera work. Whenever Elizabeth gazes upon Jack through the camera's eyes, the angle is always tilted up, symbolically, it's meant to state that she admires him. Also, there is the foreshadowing/symbolism of the wedding, or lack there of. First, it was raining on Will and Elizabeth's raining day, which is a sign of bad luck in Western culture.....

I could go on and on, but I think it would be more beneficial for you to watch the movie again with a more analytical frame of mind. That will lead you to a different interpretation. Some people think they're destined to be together, that there will be this mushy declaration of love.
I'm skeptical because that's not what the relationship is about. But it does seem as though the writers are heavily implying that Jack and Elizabeth are a better match for each other. Also, you might want to think about also reviewing the first movie's deleted scenes for a frame of reference for the second.

And, if you're still doubtful, I have other information that may in fact enlighten you from a more impartial judge.

It's not so much that it seems like d

So you're saying that you think the J/E ending is predictable?

Pirates life fo
Dont tell me I need to be more analytical about it. I know symbolism and can read clues just fine. It wont lead me to a different interpretation. Yes they are showing an interest between the two characters. All I have been saying all along is that life happens and writers know that. Just because two people are interested in eachother doesnt mean its destiny. Maybe something will happen to Jack in the movie that partly changes who Jack Sparrow is.

savvysparrow
Well for one I started the thread so I wouldnt have to browse through several thousand posts. And it wont be left unnoticed in PTOC 3. It wont just be forgotten but we cant say what brilliant writing may be done to change that. Nothing may change. It might end up being extremely predictable and everyone is right.


So you're saying that the J/E ending is predictable?

savvysparrow
Something already did happen in the movie that changes who Jack Sparrow is. Have you even looked in depth at the character?

Chiki Mina
you know why these 2 wil end up together....bc they are peas in a pod..nuff said lol

ok serioulsy. By the patterns we see, and so far through the clues and mostly our instincts tell us that it will definitely be j/l. The only confirmation we could get is when the movie starts.

There are alot of things that points to j/l.

By the way, I wonder if the compass is also going to be important in movie 3.

Pirates life fo
Originally posted by savvysparrow
Something already did happen in the movie that changes who Jack Sparrow is. Have you even looked in depth at the character?

I was refering to something happening in movie 3.

Mistypirate
What do you think it will happen to him? roll eyes (sarcastic)
what kind of facts do you go by that suggest something is going to happen to him?

Pirates life fo
Im not saying anyone is wrong. I was just playing devil's advocate. Almost everyone on this board 'knows' it's going to be J/L and feels that they will have wasted their money and the movie is crap if it turns out otherwise. Until you have seen the movie or read the script then you cant be so sure. And until that happens, why be rude and demeaning to people who feel otherwise?

Pirates life fo
Originally posted by Mistypirate
What do you think it will happen to him? roll eyes (sarcastic)
what kind of facts do you go by that suggest something is going to happen to him?

Im not talking about facts. The movie isnt out so how can you talk about facts from it. What I am saying is that we dont know.

akanai
yeah, thay can still change things.

savvysparrow
We're not being rude or demeaning. If that was your impression than I apologize whole heartedly. You sounded as though you were curious as to why we felt the way we did, so we were offering you suggestions on how to come to our conclusions. It's just that there is a lot of evidence to suggest that this will be the case.

Personally, I don't want a sappy ending. I would be happy if they at least implied J/E, but didn't have them outwardly declare it. Or, I would be content to see Jack sail off into the distance if it meant character development for him.

Mistypirate
exactly like Mina is saying, something is making his character change, It happened in DMC. We still got a taste of Jack Sparrow, but there was something different about this character. And it clearly points out what has this character so changed. You don't have to over analyzed it. It's right in front of your face. It's clearly letting you know what's the problem with this character.

Pirates life fo
Of course maybe I do know exactly what is going to happen and I am throwing people off. ;-)

Mistypirate
Originally posted by Pirates life fo
Of course maybe I do know exactly what is going to happen and I am throwing people off. ;-)

who are you???? what is your interest in this forum??? confused
You got me wondering now

Chiki Mina
theres so much depth into this movie. Ted/Terry gaves us clues and patterns right there under our noses. If it isnt gonna be j/l. then who? Willl is gonna die Tia pointed out that WIll has a destiny. And mentioned again when she was looking for the flying dutchman.

All characters have to change for the good or bad. In this case it changed for the good. Jack has died and reborn as a new man. YOu can have Jack sleeping with hookers all the time catching herpes and ghonorrea. All characters must change in a certain point. There are many conflicts throughout this movie and each character faces these inner battles within themselves.

Our main character is Jack-dont matter whos ur fave character, our main character is Jack. When we see Jack become the hero by the end of DMC he got the girl. In this case the hero always gets the girl bc we're talking about disney. That certainly hit it for all of us and of course the box office. Jack finally got what he wanted and Jacks happiness is surely the audience satisfaction of seeing Jack get the girl. Because he is now Liz hero and our hero.

Pirates life fo
Originally posted by Mistypirate
exactly like Mina is saying, something is making his character change, It happened in DMC. We still got a taste of Jack Sparrow, but there was something different about this character. And it clearly points out what has this character so changed. You don't have to over analyzed it. It's right in front of your face. It's clearly letting you know what's the problem with this character.

Ok once again. I am not talking about changes that have already happened from DMC. I am saying that something may happen in AWE that changes him again. We cant put all of our apples into one basket (Barbossa may get them) with the J/L thing. We have to keep an open mind about what can still happen to the characters that takes them on a different path than we are expecting.

Mistypirate
Box office hit :COUGH: 1 BILLION very well put chiki, you couldn't have said it better.

savvysparrow
Such as?

Pirates life fo
My interest is that I have been here for about a month now and almost every thread becomes a J/L thing. People got offended and aggressive when something is posted to go against that. Im not for or against it. I'm simply for an entertaining film with strong characters, strong plot lines and good action.

Mistypirate
Originally posted by Pirates life fo
Ok once again. I am not talking about changes that have already happened from DMC. I am saying that something may happen in AWE that changes him again. We cant put all of our apples into one basket (Barbossa may get them) with the J/L thing. We have to keep an open mind about what can still happen to the characters that takes them on a different path than we are expecting.

ok, so what your saying is that, J/L may have or have feelings for each other, but there could be a conflict among them in AWE that could take them on a different path. Is that what your suggesting?

Pirates life fo
Yes its a box office hit. POTC 1 was a phemominal movie that started a craze. Is it because of the J/L thing? Party sure. Or does it make more sense that it has to do with a great cast, great writing, strong characters...

Pirates life fo
Originally posted by Mistypirate
ok, so what your saying is that, J/L may have or have feelings for each other, but there could be a conflict among them in AWE that could take them on a different path. Is that what your suggesting?

Yes...I am suggesting that anything may happen and we dont know until it comes out. Theories all day long are wonderful. Keeps forums like this alive. But they are just that....theories.

Chiki Mina
Jack Sparrow character was already concentrated on DMC. The concentration of DMC was why jack was acting so strange lately. THe it was resolved by the end of the movie. The only changes that may ocur in his character is some regret when he supposely trades sao feng with Liz. But I digress, I believe that DMC did its part in changing Jack. Now for AWE will be concentrated on the relationship of Will/Liz. Bc that relationship has to go somewhere and end it. They have to resolve that ship bc Liz kissed jack. Now its going to be concentrated on liz/wills character and how they have changed during DMC and will change during AWE. Like i said in one post, I think AWE is dedicated to Will/Liz bc its lke a farewell tribute to a relationship that was and is not meant to be. They have to end it somehow if its Wills destiny to become captian fish face, ok kidding lol, Immortal taking Daveys place. Since Tia is calypso and she saw Wills destiny in him theres certainly a connection. Oh and the knife that Bootstrap gave him.

I believe Jacks character is done in DMC. Now its liz/wills turn to face their conflicts bc jack already did his in dmc.

Mistypirate
Originally posted by Pirates life fo
Yes its a box office hit. POTC 1 was a phemominal movie that started a craze. Is it because of the J/L thing? Party sure. Or does it make more sense that it has to do with a great cast, great writing, strong characters...

Of course all of this comes in to play. Nobody is saying otherwise

savvysparrow
Everyone has their own opinion on what their favorite aspect of the Pirates movies are. For most people, it's the brillant combination of all those things that draws them into the theaters over and over again. And for some people its the great writing and believablity of the characters/triangle that get them enthusastic about the films.


What is it that has you certain things will change in AWE?

Chiki Mina
Of course things wil change in AWE anybody can see that. If not then it will be oh so boring having the same characters all the frigging time.

Pirates life fo
That is a very well thought out idea. I think that Jack will still play a part in the Will/Liz conflict of course but that story line has to end. Does that mean that she will end up with will? Perhaps. Does it mean that they will be done? Maybe.

Pirates life fo
Im not going to say what it is that has me certain things will change in AWE. Im not here to give anything away at all. The last few posts have been some of the most well thought out and intelligent I have seen simply because it shows that people here do have an open mind to things. A lot of other posts here seem like they are written by people with blinders on. Its great to be passionate about a theory of course. Just have an open mind to what might happen. I still want Liz to end up with the monkey but Im not going to bash anyone that feels otherwise.

Chiki Mina
It means that Will is no longer in the picture. Bc Wills destiny is to become the next davey or immortal. Not necessarily a tentacle head.

Plus Orlando isnt going to be in the other potc sequels PLUS Johnny/Keira are really looking forward for the jack/liz relationship. Johnny himself said that he loves the wa liz makes him look and feel. Liz is like jacks weakness and strength at the same time.

Surely Will will ask liz to marry her bc its the last thing he will ever do on earth whilst alive. Liz marries him of course as a favor bc she loves Will but isnt in love with him. Will will also face that conflict of finally accepting that Liz really loves Jack. Im sure he wants her to be happy.

He knows by the time he "dies'' that liz will straighten her life and go with Jack. "Till death do us apart"

savvysparrow
Just from a writing perspective, you're right: the conflict does have to end somewhere. But they won't resolve it until the end of the movie. That's pretty much pretty obvious not only from the leaked rough draft of the script. Their hook in DMC was the unresolved ending between W/E/J. The writers are too clever to be stupid enough to resolve that tension in the first five minutes of the film.

The end of DMC brought change in all of the characters--Will included. If you look closely at the rough draft script, his change is no t necessarily for the better. His jealousy brings out the negative aspects of his character, such as his tendency to rush out to rash action rather than giving his situation some thought. Also, he never thinks to question Elizabeth's motivations, and blames his situation solely on Jack. He assumes that Elizabeth shares no guilt in the situation. He's willing to commit murder on an assumption.

So yes, the storyline has to end, but it is Will who must and should change, in addition to Jack and Elizabeth. Perhaps the ending will be that Will and Elizabeth realize that they are flawed people but are willing to accept those flaws. Or maybe Jack realizes that Will needs Elizabeth more than he does and unselfishly he gives her up. Anything is possible.

Mistypirate
Originally posted by Pirates life fo
Yes...I am suggesting that anything may happen and we dont know until it comes out. Theories all day long are wonderful. Keeps forums like this alive. But they are just that....theories.

Ok maybe the writers would try to keep both ships happy, maybe they could careless and don't give a crab. But, I would be happy if the J/L has some kind of resolution. I wouldn't mind if for some reason they won't end up together, but I would like to see something that suggests both characters have feelings for each other. Maybe your right, maybe there's a reason why these two can't be together at that moment. That would leave it open for a 4th film.

Pirates life fo
Of course they have feelings for eachother. How deep who knows. Are they for the right reasons. Who knows. Im sure there will be a resolution either way. The writers wouldnt just completely drop it. Honestly I dont think anything written in any forums has swayed T&T in the least. They probably knew how the story was going to go for the most part and are sticking to that.

Chiki Mina
Anything is possible but not probable. In WIlls character will definitely changed but in a negative way like savvysparrow mentioned. His jelousy will blind him and deny the fact that Is Jack that Liz wants.

I believe, maybe just maybe, that liz will do something for Jack or vice versa that will make William realize that these to are willing to do anything for eachother and that thier destiny lies with eachother to be together. IMO

Like the plot outline said for AWE: There will be alot of betraying and yada yada yada we already know! lol There was also betrayels in cotbp and dmc-they are pirates hello not monks.

We're certainly gonna face some backstabbers, but its all about being pirates. Will has certainly done it and he will in AWE. I believe IMO that Will will do something very drastic maybe not deadly, hopefully, but something that you kind of wouldnt expect of him. Its al about teh process of changing the characters. Like what happened to Jack, you dont expect him to fall for a girl and sacrifice himself for liz and not for the ship. Thats something that the audience did not expect and i definitley hit the billion mark.

Mistypirate
I don't understand, what do you mean when you said, they have feelings for each other, are they for the right reasons? I don't get it.

savvysparrow
The writers have implied pretty heavily that the feelings are intense on Jack's side, and there is a lot of evidence to support that. But they've yet to mention Elizabeth's feelings on the subject, other than that she's confused. No one has said if Will and Elizabeth's feelings for each other are for the right reasons, either, which is part of the beauty of the triangle, because it literally can go both ways.

And I agree, the writers have had this idea in mind for a while. They've had the idea of the love pyramid in mind as far back as the rough draft of the first movie.

So they knew how they wanted to resolve it when they started the trilogy. That doesn't mean, however that external factors aren't involved. They may not have been certain of the popularity of the character pairings when they wrote DMC. Disney also has a heavy say in how things are written. They're out to write an ending that is both satisfying, and as cynical as it sounds, to make as much money as possible.

Pirates life fo
Originally posted by Mistypirate
I don't understand, what do you mean when you said, they have feelings for each other, are they for the right reasons? I don't get it.

What I meant was. if Liz was falling for Jack beacuse he was the dirty, older, pirate type that daddy wouldnt approve of. Falling for a guy just to rebel. Or if Jack only showed enotions towards Liz to piss off Will.

savvysparrow
Or, more likely, she was interested in Jack because they're more compatiable with each other in terms of intelligence, and the way that they view the world? She already rebelled against what her father in the first movie by agreeing to marry Will.

And Jack can do plenty of other things to piss off Will than to show inclinations towards Elizabeth.

Pirates life fo
I was just using those situations as examples of what the 'wrong reasons' would be.

Chiki Mina
Disney isnt dumb. Its like the Donald Trump of all cartoons. It surely noticed on what hit the billion mark. It was the satisfaction that Jack got the girl, apart fromt that the movie was just AWESOME.

first movie:
Will kisses Elzibeth...it certainly didnt hit the billlion mark. Never surpirsed us that WIll was gonna get the chick.

second movie:
Elizabeth kisses Jack...BOOM Billion mark. Sealed that movie with a golden button.

Im pretty sure Ted/Terry and Disney figured that out. That what made the box sky rocketing was the fact that the audinece was pleased to see jack finally get what he wants(hero gets the girl) and excepting liz in his life. We rather see Jack get the girl bc hes ahppy with her than Jack get STDS from Gissele and Scarlett.

Mistypirate
Originally posted by Pirates life fo
What I meant was. if Liz was falling for Jack beacuse he was the dirty, older, pirate type that daddy wouldnt approve of. Falling for a guy just to rebel. Or if Jack only showed enotions towards Liz to piss off Will.

yes, but the movie doesn't suggest that, I remember reading something from the writers that stated, that Jack wanted to be as close and as far as possible from Elizabeth. He was having those emotions right before he met Will in the cannibal island. So how could he have those feelings to pissed off Will's character, if they weren't even close. And as for Liz she did it in movie 1, IMO she wanted to be w William because he supposedly was a pirate. Daddy wasn't happy at the end of 1 after all he was a blacksmith.

savvysparrow
And I was using my examples to show that those examples don't work with the story. They're attracted to each other, more than likely not for the wrong reasons, but for the right.

They have a very similar nature, and both have a habit of seeing each other's inner qualities, both the good and the bad.

Pirates life fo
They dont have to work with the story. I wasnt using them because I thought they worked. They were simply examples. I could have used Dick and Jane instead of Jack and Liz.

Chiki Mina
i agree misty..well my fingers hurt from typing too much and my eyes are all crossed from reading too much lol. Im running off to bed. Love all my chikis in here!
KEEP THE FAITH XOXO

Pirates life fo
You could say the same for Will and Liz. They should be togther for this or that reason and they shouldnt be together also for whatever reason.

Mistypirate
I must admit that you are making this discussion rather interesting big grin

Chiki Mina
"Fate intervenes" simple as that lol im too lazy to expand that theory lol buenas noches
KEEP THE FAITH xoxo

Pirates life fo
That's what Im trying to do. Play devil's advocate. All of you may be right. You may also be wrong. I might not even know how it ends if a new copy of the script has revisions that change everything.

Mistypirate
Originally posted by Chiki Mina
i agree misty..well my fingers hurt from typing too much and my eyes are all crossed from reading too much lol. Im running off to bed. Love all my chikis in here!
KEEP THE FAITH XOXO

Ok chiki you have agood nite girl or good morning.. smile
xoxoxo

Pirates life fo
All I was wanting to know is what die hard proof was there that pointed to who Liz would end up with. I write pretty much the same stuff on a Will/Liz biased board. And both groups think that it's going to be there way and that's it.

Mistypirate
Originally posted by Pirates life fo
That's what Im trying to do. Play devil's advocate. All of you may be right. You may also be wrong. I might not even know how it ends if a new copy of the script has revisions that change everything.

I'm aware that the movie can go in a million directions, but there are to many symbolisms in the movie that cannot be denied.

Pirates life fo
Ok an example of what might change Jack. His feelings for Liz came about before he died on the Pearl to the Krakken. Who is to say that when he is rescued and brought back he wont be a changed man and not give a damn about Liz?

savvysparrow
Not every one thinks it's their way or the high way. A lot of us would begrudge the W/E ending if it made sense with the overrall development of the story. (There are fewer people on the other side of the line that would be so generous).

As I've said, it can go both ways, depending on a person's bias. I'm more in the middle in that I don't see how you can loose when there's Johnny Depp on one side and Orlando Bloom on the other. It's win win.

There's no die hard proof. If there were die hard proof, none of us would be here on the discussion board. But, there are the facts, there are the symbols and the rest is pretty acurate interpretation.

Mistypirate
Originally posted by Pirates life fo
All I was wanting to know is what die hard proof was there that pointed to who Liz would end up with. I write pretty much the same stuff on a Will/Liz biased board. And both groups think that it's going to be there way and that's it.

Maybe she wont even end up with anyone, maybe she'll go solo as a pirate. All i'm saying is that there has to be some kind of resolution for J/L. Hopefully for the best. I wouldn't mind if they don't end up together, as I said it would leave it open for more Pirate movies.

savvysparrow
That may be true, but even in the rough draft script of AWE, there are scenes that would suggest otherwise. Also, that would make the entire movie of DMC void, which would be a stupid thing to do from a writing perspective.

Pirates life fo
When I first came to these boards I read SEVERAL posts saying that if it wasnt Jack and Liz then they will have wasted not only money on AWE but also DMC. Disney sucks if it doesnt happen etc... That is what I am basing most of this on. It wasnt only one or two people. It was several threads all saying that same thing

Mistypirate
Originally posted by Pirates life fo
Ok an example of what might change Jack. His feelings for Liz came about before he died on the Pearl to the Krakken. Who is to say that when he is rescued and brought back he wont be a changed man and not give a damn about Liz?


I'm gonna have to disagree on that, his feelings for Liz didn't came before dying to the Kraken. He was having feelings way before that. I don't think his feelings for Liz are going to disappear that easy, he seemed proud of her actions when she left him shackled to the mast at the end.

savvysparrow
And the same is more than likely being said in the W/E camp. The thing with the triangle is that there's no way it can be resolved with out miffed feelings on one side or the other.

I think people are exagerating a little. More than likely, the writing will be strong enough to leave both sides at least midly content, and so that no one will go without seeing AWE at least twice.

What I think they may have been trying to say that J/E makes a lot of sense to them, and that if DMC was nothing but a marketing ploy, then they'll be severely disappointed.

savvysparrow
By the way, the whole thing with Jack and the Kracken. It wouldn't make sense for his feelings to disappear so quickly, and they don't, not even in the rough draft of the script.

There's a great scene where Jack is looking at the Kracken and mourning its death. Will asks Jack how it is that he can mourn the death of something that tried to kill him, to which he replies that the Kracken was a magnificent creature.

This is symbolic of Jack's feelings towards Elizabeth. She sent him to his death, and yet he's capable of not only forgiving her, but admiring her all the more for it. So no, his feelings don't change much.

Pirates life fo
Originally posted by Mistypirate
I'm gonna have to disagree on that, his feelings for Liz didn't came before dying to the Kraken. He was having feelings way before that. I don't think his feelings for Liz are going to disappear that easy, he seemed proud of her actions when she left him shackled to the mast at the end.

When I said 'before dying to the Krakken', I didnt mean the second before. It may have been the first time he laid eyes on her or it may have been stranded on the island with her.

Pirates life fo
Originally posted by savvysparrow
By the way, the whole thing with Jack and the Kracken. It wouldn't make sense for his feelings to disappear so quickly, and they don't, not even in the rough draft of the script.

There's a great scene where Jack is looking at the Kracken and mourning its death. Will asks Jack how it is that he can mourn the death of something that tried to kill him, to which he replies that the Kracken was a magnificent creature.

This is symbolic of Jack's feelings towards Elizabeth. She sent him to his death, and yet he's capable of not only forgiving her, but admiring her all the more for it. So no, his feelings don't change much.

Ok that is my point. Why does it HAVE to be symbolic of Jack's feelings towards Liz? That is just you reading into something not proof. That may be the reason but we cant get into T&T's minds to know what they were thinking when they wrote it

Mistypirate
Originally posted by Pirates life fo
When I first came to these boards I read SEVERAL posts saying that if it wasnt Jack and Liz then they will have wasted not only money on AWE but also DMC. Disney sucks if it doesnt happen etc... That is what I am basing most of this on. It wasnt only one or two people. It was several threads all saying that same thing


All I'm saying is that if they plan to make more sequels the J/L wont happen at the end of AWE. I'm pretty aware of it.
ok I have a question for you, why do you think DMC was such a box office hit?

savvysparrow
Why doesn't it have to be that way? Things don't have to be straight forward, now do they? With any literature or film, things are open to intrepretation. That's how it works.
Given the other things from DMC that were foreshadowed with lines and symbolism, I'd say that it's ok to interpret things in that manner. Maybe I'm not correct, it's possible.

Pirates life fo
Originally posted by Mistypirate
All i'm saying is that if they plann to make more sequels the J/L wont happen at the end of AWE. I'm pretty aware of it.
ok I have a question for you, why do you think DMC was such a box office hit?

The first movie was phenominal. It sparked increased interst in the second movie. There were a lot of plots and sub plots that people wanted to see again to catch. That is why my group of friends saw it twice. Part of it is the relationship but how can you base the total success of the movie on 1 theme.

savvysparrow
There are other people, who have no J/E bias what-so-ever, who have worked in the film industry who have come to the same conclusions that I have, so it's not just me. But you do make a valid point, sometimes interpretations can be a deadly thing.

Mistypirate
Originally posted by Pirates life fo
Ok that is my point. Why does it HAVE to be symbolic of Jack's feelings towards Liz? That is just you reading into something not proof. That may be the reason but we cant get into T&T's minds to know what they were thinking when they wrote it

I think thats the beauty of being a writer, when you see something that has been written, no matter if you are reading a book or watching a movie..IMO you can see the writers thoughts through their work.
You are correct we don't know whats going to happen in AWE, but we clearly noticed were the writers were taking the characters in DMC.

Pirates life fo
You will have to refresh my memory. Why was it that Liz chained Jack to the rail? Was it because she wanted him to die? If so did she want him to die because she realized that her feelings for Jack were growing but she loved Will and was trying to kill those feelings for him?

savvysparrow
That's a pretty good interpretation. You might also say that she realizes that she is in fact a pirate, and therefore not compatiable with Will any longer. So in killing Jack, she's destroying that part of herself that's unsutiable. But you're right in assuming that she chained Jack to the mast for more than the reasoning that she was trying to save the life of the crew and Will.

Mistypirate
Don't get me wrong I just wanted to know your opinion, I'm not basing the success of the movie in just one theme. There has to be a plot and sub plots to make a movie successful. It wouldn't be a movie at all.

Pirates life fo
On a side note, an acquaintance of mine that worked on 2 was the Pirate that grabbed the gun to shoot the Krakken just before Jack got it. He was snatched up by the Krakken and dropped the gun. Let's have a moment of silence for poor old LeJon who didnt get to be in 3

savvysparrow
Personally, I think what gives the Pirates movies such life is that they have such rich characters. I can't think of one character that doesn't have some sort of depth. There's not one character that doesn't have an interesting story to tell. I'd go to the movie just to see them resolve Norrington's story alone. In this day and age of expensive blockbusters, it's rare to see a movie about interesting characters. They aren't all cookie cutter, made to order people.

Pirates life fo
Plus the sets are amazing. The CGI is seamless and doesnt take away from the story. And the costumes are exquisite. Penny Rose, the costume designer, is brilliant!

Mistypirate
Originally posted by Pirates life fo
On a side note, an acquaintance of mine that worked on 2 was the Pirate that grabbed the gun to shoot the Krakken just before Jack got it. He was snatched up by the Krakken and dropped the gun. Let's have a moment of silence for poor old LeJon who didnt get to be in 3


Thats sad

savvysparrow
True, part of the great thing about the production is that they spent so much time in doing it well. There is so much love and dedication that went into these movies, and it shows. That's part of why they're so successful. They chose to make them the right way. I wish Hollywood would pay more attention to their example. I actually thought it was a shame that Elizabeth's wedding dress spent so much time in the water. It was really beautifully made.

Mistypirate
Originally posted by Pirates life fo
You will have to refresh my memory. Why was it that Liz chained Jack to the rail? Was it because she wanted him to die? If so did she want him to die because she realized that her feelings for Jack were growing but she loved Will and was trying to kill those feelings for him?

How funny, the W/E would answer you the 1st question. But for what reason did she wanted him to die? but the second question sounds more suitable.(for us) and more convincing after seeing all those hints that were given to us through the entire movie

savvysparrow
Also, if she had wanted him to die, then why would she have agreed to go on this quest to bring him back to life? So, she sent him to his death for a purpose beyond that she thought his lack of hygeine was getting out of control.

Mistypirate
It looks like Mr Pirates Life doesn't have an answer for that.

savvysparrow
Ha! Well, I guess not. It is pretty late in California. I know my brain is lagging a little. Maybe he's waiting for the opportune moment, though I think he hit his stride a few posts back.

He did have a point about interpretation though. Sometimes it's easy to leap to conclusions. At the same time, he was essentially saying that we should all just take things at face value. There's no movie worth its salt that you can take at face value.

Mistypirate
Originally posted by savvysparrow
Ha! Well, I guess not. It is pretty late in California. I know my brain is lagging a little. Maybe he's waiting for the opportune moment, though I think he hit his stride a few posts back.

He did have a point about interpretation though. Sometimes it's easy to leap to conclusions. At the same time, he was essentially saying that we should all just take things at face value. There's no movie worth its salt that you can take at face value.


Its way pass bedtime here in Fl, I got his point as well, he is right he does have a point. Oh well I'm off to bed. Have a good morning.

Mistypirate
Oh one thing before I go, It was funny how he posted those questions, and didn't manage to answer them, and I'm curious how he put that she loved Will, as in past tense. Oh that dude is weird I'm going to bed.

LovelyOne
Originally posted by Pirates life fo
I am hoping people can come up with a list of 'facts' from the movies that prove Jack and Liz will end up together. Everyone is sure that it will happen and maybe I am just missing something. What clues have been given to us?

Mainly the things Ted and Terry have said.

I'm not saying they will end up together but because I used to learn film studies I had to study the basic structrures of stories etc..and everything is pointing to it.

there is a quote from Ted somewhere on boxofficemojo that suggests why Elizbabeth did that to Jack at the end

because he came back for her and in doing so basically wanted to be with her on a long term basis and this is why Liz did what she did. apparently..

Wouldn't you think that was a really cold hearted way to just say no to someone?

Or did she really want him and simply removed the temptation?

the second would make morse sense of the emtions she showed whenever her felings for Jack get called into question in DMC..when ever they do..all she shows is fear, denial, anger etc.

LovelyOne
maybe this is the only thing we need to know how the trilogy will end Pirates life fo smile




The closure to the love triangle is supposed to be there and its only the plot ends that need be cleaned up.

When you look at first glance..you will think its one thing..but look past the climactic moment to the very last scene for each character in the movie.

Its clear where each character's heart truly lies.

I would also say that will/Liz ended up further apart emotionaly than ever before when it ended. Jack/Liz however? much, much closer.

What I notice is..Will and Jack are both miles ahead of Elizabeth in terms of emotional development, they have both taken many steps when it comes to accepting the new obstacle in their life..yet Elizabeth? It only happens right at the end. through out much of the movie she is just stuck in this horrible limbo where she's slowly becoming more and more terrified of her feelings for Jack.

LovelyOne
hey guys please dont be hostile towards Pirates life fo..he's a nice guy..and he knows lots about the pirates movies..He knows what he's talking about smile

but Jack did have feelings long before he even bumped into Liz again..but they were "vexing" him. His compass is pointing at her then furthest away then at her again according to Ted.

Tia even picked up on it

Naomi said in an interview "She has the ability to look through people and see thier true hearts and true desires"

she knows that Jack is thinking of Elizabeth but is "loath to claim it for his own"..meaning he is "wary/afraid" to claim it..if it was just for sex why would he be so afraid? Its not..he's afraid of making anyone else an obligation in life instead of himself and his material possessions

this is just me guessing but they seem to have tied in the start of movie 2 to the end of movie 1..where Elizabeth is on Jack's mind (singing the song she taught him on the beach) "he realises what he's doing and smiles"(script) Then he looks at his compass, snaps it shut..smiles "drink up me hearties YO HO!" and heads in the oppsosite direction to "uncharted waters" according to the script that is. What the heckaroo does that mean?

Does it mean Jack has actually began to take his step into unknown places by the end of movie 1? For example leaving a woman and her STILL being on his mind?

had they left in that peas in a pod scene in movie 1..that little moment at the end wouldnt have gone past our heads so much..we would realize that Jack leaves with a little more than just the horizon on his mind..and thus it opens for how he feels in movie 2 perfectly..a year later and she's still there..haunting him.

katelovespirate
Originally posted by Pirates life fo
I am hoping people can come up with a list of 'facts' from the movies that prove Jack and Liz will end up together. Everyone is sure that it will happen and maybe I am just missing something. What clues have been given to us?

wow i missed a lot this morning.

i think this is a great question, and everyone has done a good job answering it.

if i were gonna answer it, i'd say this: we dont have any facts. no one does, really. we have theories, we have ideas, we have opinions. a lot of people strongly feel they are going to end up together based on various hints.

but these are just hints. ya know?

for me, i am not "so sure" they are going to end up together, but i am very hopeful!!! smile

LovelyOne
Its not just hints..its the structure of a story..people go to a movie expecting to see something familiar in terms of story telling..and its usually those 12 structual steps..that is the single most successful way to tell a captivating story in the history of the planet DMC is doing it I can see it..DMC/AWE are one story..and Jack is following the steps, as is Elizabeth and Will at their own paces..some some are way behind others

Stories have been done like that for thousands of years..Its human nature to reject the unknown (which funnily enough is step 3) and if the story messes with the structure that people are familiar with it screws up the box office takings..I've been taught this..its statistical fact.

and if they end up in a weird way that makes no sense to what we see the story appear to amount to in DMC/AWE..then it will probably be out done by Spiderman at the box office..a movie franchise that doesnt mess up the familiar pattern of story telling.

its a blockbuster not an art house movie/independent movie..they cant afford to be "different" in terms of structure and story telling.

Movie 2 appears to be hints because its only the first half of the overall story..this is the point where we are supposed to start seeing how things will end up...but cuz its one movie its hints and not straight forward facts.

movie 3 will be the moment when we see whats really going on..it will be a fact when we watch it..and we do actually see that Jack is in ove with Elizabeth.

by the end we should be able to look back at DMC and say "yes that makes sense"

katelovespirate
sweetheart i wasnt arguing with you lol. i know we have facts for movie 2 and 3. i was just saying we dont have facts for movie 3 since it isnt out yet or even done filming. lol. i am just of the opinion it could still swing either way, though i love your idea/theory of the end scene.

LovelyOne
I know lol..I was just kinda making another point lol

katelovespirate
oh gee i am so out of it this morning. above i meant we have the facts for movie 1 and 2. LOLLLLLL

sometimes i try to think about the story the way the writer's intended it to come across, versus to way it obviously came across to us from the final product. a lot of times what they are saying doesnt exactly match up with what we see... ya know? because they have such a different view of things--- the first version of every scene and what it was meant to be in their minds--- and probably what came across on screen is slightly different most of the time. right?

I wonder which way Gore ships. anyone got any info? wink

LovelyOne
I know Johnny seems to ship J/E so does Keira..Orlando?? no clue.

laughing out loud

gore?? NO idea

savvysparrow
Wait, Johnny ships J/E?


And I wasn't intending to be rude to Pirate's Life. Far from it. I should have realized that the poor attempt at humor I was trying to make wouldn't succeed. It's all about delivery, and unfortunately, the internet isn't conducive to conveying tone of voice. I should have put in a wink or something to that affect.

Anyway, sorry Pirate Life and to others who were miffed.

Back to the task at hand, Johnny ships J/E?

LovelyOne
yes he seems to like the idea of his character being infatuated with a female..one that is able to beat him at his own game. he siad it was his favorite part of Jack Sparrow in movie 1 on the beach with Elizabeth..its the "most revealing" for his character and he seems to like it in movie 2 aswell...hence the fact we see the theme continue

katelovespirate
personally, i think the writers and gore secretly ship j/e just cause they are horny. wink w/l was obviously not doing it for them, or they wouldnt have thrown in the hott j/l element.

disney as a coorporation definately ships w/l. they try to make will look manly on their merchandise. its kind of cute how hard they try to make him look tough.

meanwhile, that super cheesy jewelry store Claire's has pirate mediallions that actually look quite real now.

LovelyOne
again^^ Disney the co operation seem to realy be slightly backwards when it comes to selling a movie..hence the fact they are going so poorly latley with all of their own movies...They needed Pixar to make good animations..now they have lost them...Chicken Little? I mean WTF.

If gore etc want J/L then it will probably happen..they were stubborn when it came to keping jack in the story during the first movie and if they know J/L is the right path they will be allowed to do it me thinks.

LovelyOne
I mean how STUPID would it be of them to end it Will/Liz as a certainty after what DMC did for movie sales??

Its crazy to think that IMO..

movies only get to 1 billion when SOMETHING is working really well on screen..jack is the money of the movie..thats all people need to think of..and what do we see with Jack in DMC?

katelovespirate
yeah i think they will get what they want.

t and t made this big post on their site about how when they originally came to disney (and Gore, actually) with the idea for the ending of 3, both of them totally rejected it. but within a few weeks, they had come around and they ended up keeping that ending (whatever it was!!!!!) so i do think they will get their way.

however, i am concerned they will try to get all artistic and epic and give it one of those tragic endings. blech. i am afraid they will start taking themselves too seriously, ya know???

LovelyOne
Those only get to 1 billion when you already expect tragedy in a movie

Like Titanic or to a lesser extent Romeo and Juliet, or Phantom of the Opera. (we all expect tragedy)

when it ends on tragedy and you dont expect it..usually you dont get to 1 billion. You usually dont get a very successful movie at all.

PotC is a feel good movie..if they are wise they wont end it really horribly for any character. I dont even think Will's ending is a bad one really..he wants to die. Me thinks he gets Tia too.

LovelyOne
you know what Kate.I bet that ending was the one with the kid in the future laughing out loud

I can imagine everyone shouting NO! when they first hear it but when you really think about it..Its pretty cool if they do a prequel to it kinda thing...

would people really shout NO! to it being Will's son? laughing out loud

Lots of people here were like "no way would it be Jacks kid it ruins the movie" but IMO it wouldnt...when you think about it at first its a bad idea..but it becomes kinda cool..

savvysparrow
They're not taking themselves too seriously, in my opinion. They're excellent writers and have an excellent understanding of character. The artistry exemplified in DMC, was actually present in the first movie from a certain point of view.
Though Jack's character may have been considered comedic in the first film, there is an element of tragedy about him that transcends the lighter moments. If you think about the deleted scenes on the island, and how his facade is essentially dropped, you'll see what I mean. Also, if you apply the knowledge of Jack's past with the EITC and all that he lost, you'll see a very different movie.

The real tragedy of the characters is that they're all struggling to find themselves in a world where they've all had to deny who they truly are. So, it wouldn't be so artistic if, that in their struggle to finally come to terms with their "touch of destiny" the characters stand to loose something of value.

That's the beauty of the series. That even though it's a blockbuster, at it's heart, the movies are about the characters.

LovelyOne
Jack is rather tragic underneath I have always thought so too..he's a weak man without his material possessions there to make him feel strong and brave..When he's totally laid bare..there is nothing. He's a shell of a person in movie 1..Elizabeth basically saw him naked and she didnt laugh

which is true of many people who cling onto material things for security. You see them pretend to be brave etc but underneath they are crumbling as people.

Money cant buy happiness..its the oldest saying in the book.

Jack deserves some close human companionship

movie 2 we see him begin to become the legend he always boasts to be..and it was because of Elizabeth.

usually with characters like Jack in movies..in the end they get a decent woman by their side..Its one of the best loved romances people see on screen..where someone pretends to feel like they have everything they need..but deep down they are crumbling away because they secretly yearn for love. They have prostitutes..all the material things they ever wanted..but can they ever make you feel loved back? sure you can love them but inanimate objects are just that..inanimate. How can that possibly satisfy Jack for an eternity?

can people honestly tell me that Jack was perfectly happy as a man with no one in his life but material things? even after what we saw him reduced to on the beach i movie 1?

If you were that kind of person who had nothing but material things..would you give them up in order have human companionship in your life?

Why do some people not like the thought of Jack actually having what most people crave? Is Jack not human like you?

Why should Jack be left on his own a weak and crumbling man? Poor Jack. sad

katelovespirate
Originally posted by LovelyOne
Jack is rather tragic underneath I have always thought so too..he's a weak man without his material possessions there to make him feel strong and brave..When he's totally laid bare..there is nothing. He's a shell of a person in movie 1..Elizabeth basically saw him naked and she didnt laugh

which is true of many people who cling onto material things for security. You see them pretend to be brave etc but underneath they are crumbling as people.

Money cant buy happiness..its the oldest saying in the book.

Jack deserves some close human companionship

movie 2 we see him begin to become the legend he always boasts to be..and it was because of Elizabeth.

yes, yes, YES!!!! smile

i think in a lot of ways, the 13 years Jack was granted as captain of the pearl was also a sort of 13 years of freedom, 13 years of being selfish, alone, independent, and without a clear moral landscape. in 13 years Jack hasnt fallen hard for any girl, he hasnt had any real strong ties to anyone. but now, that has to change. the 13 years is up--- not just his 13 years as captain, but his whole lifestyle is in to change. and it is... without him even trying... he has fallen for someone, he's acting all heroic, he's no longer carefree, suddenly his priorities are changing.

its like, 13 years of faking it and suddenly he sees who he is--- and that person is just freaking amazing, IMO.

i think Jack has a lot more tricks in the bag to whip out in 3. i cant wait. im just rambling now. lol.

savvysparrow
The writers have very clearly stated more than once that it's not so much that the character of Jack Sparrow has changed, but that's he's been revealed.

I think there's strong evidence to support that Jack didn't begin his life as a pirate. That he wasn't always a selfish man who lived for himself. That wasn't a choice that he made necessarily--it was made for him by Beckett and others around him. AWE will reveal what it takes to make a man a pirate--that sometimes doing the right thing DOES involve an act of Piracy.

His facade that he's created to survive in this morally ambiguous pirate world has gotten in the way of forming relationships. I think the writers have also said somewhere that this is in fact Jack's struggle. You can't be truly "free" and expect to have relationships. He's not necessarily a man motivated by material wealth though. If you look at his past with Beckett. If he were to have been a man driven by material posessions, he would have never set upon a mission to return the slaves he had been carrying as cargo back to Africa. He'd have delivered them.

His love of the Black Pearl has less to do with that it's a posession and more to do with, in all likely hood, that a ship, unlike a person, cannot betray you. It's probably the most loyal thing in his life, which is terribly sad when you really think about it. But look at how many times his trusting nature has led him to disaster.

LovelyOne
I know I agree with you kate.

People who say Jack was always happy the way he was..did you not see movie 1? we saw the real Jack underneath everything and he's falling apart as a human being..Imagine buildng up this pftyress of falseness.."look at me I'm a captain..look at my hat..my style, my ship, my legend! I have all the women I ever wanted"

then why when all of these things are taken away from him in movie 1 do we see such an emotionally weak man? ..

He's weak because he has no reason to exist once you take all of that way..he has nothing else to live for apart from material objects..when they are gone there is a void that cant be filled by rum.

In DMC..he has everything he wants..but its not enough..He's thinking of Elizabeth..the one woman who saw him at his weakest and didnt laugh at him and what he has become over the years..she also out did him which I think sets her apart from many of the women he's been with. She left him speechless on the beach.

Johnny even loves how his character became speechless like that because of her.

in DMC..he has a reason to live....and we see him decide to gve up things that dont really matter to him anymore. Like the pearl for example...we see him give up putting himself before others in dangerous situations.

Jack would have probably gone back to the pearl anyway but because Elizabeth was on there in danger..this is why we see him totally kick ass when he returns.people only show confidence like that in dangerous situations if they are fighting for someone they really care about.

Cowards who have no one flee..we saw Jack do that..then he realises he has someone

LovelyOne
pftyress

was supposed to say *fortress* laughing out loud....dont ask

Chiki Mina
You cant have a character change dramitacally in one movie then change back to his old ways in the next. you cant have Jack again loving material possesions and holding on to them like a little coward. He dont need material tings to make him a legend or strong. He needs a woman to love and to hold. Elizabeth is his weakness and strength. Its waht makes him nervous and relax at the same time. Shes his everythin. Everything tat you dont expect Jack Sparrow to do. A man who is never settled wit his relationship and only depends on material things for happiness is now changed into a new man. Only treassure he needs is Liz. Not even his pearl... is only a ship, mate.

LovelyOne
If the closure to the triangle is in DMC (according to T&T) then I think its pretty obvious where everyone's heart now truly belongs in the story..and where it is going to belong in AWE..the building blocks have been formed now all there is is to tie up the plot ends.

In DMC:
Jack and Elizabeth grew closer

Will and Elizabeth grew apart

They are joined again..but Elizabeth gave up something she wanted most to do so..and when she's with who she wanted to save the most in this world..she feels empty AGAIN..and its about the 5th time in the story this appears to happen to her.

Elizabeth runs back to Jack. She gives up a happy ever after with Will in order to return to Jack.

Will gives up a happy ever after to pursue more important things than Elizabeth


and Jack?

1. He decided to make her an obligation in his life.

2. He dies for her..willingly..he is transformed as a man..he's brave he has something in his life to live for besides material objects

And is still very much in love with her even when she runs away. According to the Novel of the movie "Jack desired Elizabeth all the more, knowing her heart was as dark as his own" that smile is true to how he feels..in awe of Elizabeth...When Jack is silent. He is his most honest. Remember that smile

Pirates life fo
Hello again. Last night I didnt leave because I had run out of steam or because I couldnt answer a question posed. I crashed out. When you work 14-18 hour days and then come home and spend 4 hours online it happens. :-)

LovelyOne
hey smile^^^

lovethemtigers
Originally posted by Pirates life fo
I am hoping people can come up with a list of 'facts' from the movies that prove Jack and Liz will end up together. Everyone is sure that it will happen and maybe I am just missing something. What clues have been given to us?

Hello....I guess for us...it's not so much that we have "facts" that they will end up together...we just have "facts" or "clues" that point to Jack and Liz....as in, we BELIEVE that they should be together or end up together. We have no clue what T and T have in mind, but as we see it...it just seems like this is the way the story is moving

PirateDiva
^^ Exactly i dont think anyone here is saying that J/L ARE IN FACT going to end up together its just that we all have theories and clues and stuff that lead us to believe that that IS WHATS GOING TO HAPPEN!!! nO ONE knows for sure but we all have HIGH HOPES...that it goes in that direction!!!

Pirates life fo
Hiya Lovely. Hate to to come back then run off again but I have a busy day coordinating a big group gathering tonight. I hate being the coordinator since Im so lazy but Im the guy with everyone's phone number. Bleh!

Have a good day ladies

Chiki Mina
Our only fact is the movie. Our only hope is the movie, other than that we keep our faith.

Mistypirate
Originally posted by Pirates life fo
Hello again. Last night I didnt leave because I had run out of steam or because I couldnt answer a question posed. I crashed out. When you work 14-18 hour days and then come home and spend 4 hours online it happens. :-)


yea i know what your talking about sometimes i work 14 hours a day. It sucks
have a good one

LovelyOne
LOL apparently Brad Pitt has now started to talk about these Orlando dying in PotC 3 "rumors" laughing out loud

I'm wondering if they are gonna change the ending now cuz bloody crappy Keeptothecode..took all my info from here and spread it over there and some of Disney saw it.


notice how all of the comments to come out from Terry and Disney PR people actually DENY the rumors?? laughing out loud

funny stuff..

LovelyOne
Originally posted by Pirates life fo
Hiya Lovely. Hate to to come back then run off again but I have a busy day coordinating a big group gathering tonight. I hate being the coordinator since Im so lazy but Im the guy with everyone's phone number. Bleh!

Have a good day ladies

you are good at that kinda stuff though wink

is it octoberfest?

Is you know who gonna be there? If he does you gotta take drunken photos big grin

Chiki Mina
Originally posted by LovelyOne
LOL apparently Brad Pitt has now started to talk about these Orlando dying in PotC 3 "rumors" laughing out loud

I'm wondering if they are gonna change the ending now cuz bloody crappy Keeptothecode..took all my info from here and spread it over there and some of Disney saw it.


notice how all of the comments to come out from Terry and Disney PR people actually DENY the rumors?? laughing out loud

funny stuff..

You lost me about Arm-er Brad Pitt lol wink

LovelyOne
he was on a talk show or something talking about it lol

I really wish It never spread here now..notice how it was here first before loads of other stuff came out?

not saying it came from here but its just weird how we had the info first.

cuz now its spread about 10 million times

Mistypirate
No kidding Brad Pit talking about Orlie dying in potc3 laughing
Do you really believe that they would change the ending...? I don't think they would go to such great lengths and change the ending. I mean Orli dying in the movie is pretty much a fact. Do you think they are going to change it as to keep him alive and having him end happily ever after w/ Liz?

Chiki Mina
I know lol they couldnt start al over with the movie. if they try to change the ending then they will have to change the entire movie and dmc also lmao

LovelyOne
true they have probably filmed too much now that leads to it.

Chiki Mina
it would be a waste of ink and paper..those poor trees.

Surreal_44
This has been a great thread to read through, and I'm not even done yet. There are some very well thought-out theories and ideas here.


Off to eat. big grin I shall return. I know you're all excited about that. big grin big grin

LovelyOne
surreal44

I hope I didnt intimidate you or anything earlier. It was never my intent.

lovethemtigers
Originally posted by Pirates life fo
I am hoping people can come up with a list of 'facts' from the movies that prove Jack and Liz will end up together. Everyone is sure that it will happen and maybe I am just missing something. What clues have been given to us?

here's what I posted on another thread...but should have posted here:

Here's a list of clues that I think Disney puts in the movie on purpose for us (the audience) to take notice of the Jack/Elizabeth relationship (they may not be noticed the first time, but on a second viewing they are very evident):

1. Will and Liz's wedding is stopped due to them being arrested for helping _JACK. It's a horrible rainy day...Liz looks like she's at a funeral rather than a wedding....she looks like she is in mourning....

2. Lord Beckett's comment to Liz when she has him at gunpoint making him sign the letters of marque...."Take into your calculations that you have robbed my of my wedding night," He says..."Ah yes, a wedding interupted...or fate intervenes...You seem to be taking great efforts to ensure the freedom of Jack Sparrow" Liz responds, "These are not for Jack", and Beckett says, "oh really? Then for Will Turners' freedom, either way I will still need that compass..." (okay, so here he is hinting that fate has intervened to stop her from marrying the wrong man)

3. We See Jack burst out of a coffin in the opening scene...then we learn from Marty that the Captain has been acting strang(er)...and Gibbs tells us "something's got Jack vexed...." Jack's compass is working...he should want to find the key to find the chest...but it's not what his heart wants most in this world...

4. When Jack is at the desk in his cabin aboard the Pearl...we see the compass spinning..I think we are to assume it stops on Port Royal (even Ted has told us this on KTTC), then it refers back to Movie 1 to let us know what Jack is thinking of...."why is the rum always gone"...movie 1 -"but why is the rum gone" - him and Liz on the island....

5. When the group visits Tia's cabin --Will tells her they need to find the key, Tia says to Jack "the compass you bartered from me, it cannot lead you to this?" and Jack says, "Maybe, Why?" Tia smiles and says, "Ahh, Jack Sparrow don't know what he want, or maybe he do know but is loath to claim it as his own....." (IMO, this means he wants Elizabeth but cannot claim her for his own..but at the same time doesn't want to want her - and Ted even told us this is true on KTTC)
then when she tells them of the story of Davy Jones, Tia says "He was a great sailor unitl he ran afoul of something that VEXED him." Tia says it is something that vexes all men, and Will asks "What vexes men?" Gibbs offers "The sea" and the other two pirates offer some answers and Jack says "A woman". Tia then says, "A woman. He fell in love with a woman. A woman as changing, as harsh and as untameable as the sea.....he couldn't live with the pain, yet he could not die, so he cut him heart out..." (It's kind of ironic that Jack knew that it would be a woman that would vex a man....and we knew from earlier from MR. Gibbs that something's got Jack vexed...these two lines are in here for a reason --they are clues)

6. When Norrington notices that Liz is smiling after her persuade me conversation with Jack...."Curious thing..there was a time when i would have given anything for you to look like that while thinking about me..", Liz responds, "I don't know what you mean." Norrie says, "Oh, I think you do." Liz responds "Don't be absurd I trust him that's all" and Norrie starts to walk off then turns back and says, "So you never wondered how your latest finace ended up aboard the Flying Dutchman in the first place." He shakes his head and laughs.

Here Elizabeth opens the compass and it points to Jack....earlier Jack tells Elizabeth point blank that the compass points to the thing you want most in this world....
and speaking of that scene..

7. The compass scene....the chemistry between Jack and Liz cannot be denied...I know they are talking about the compass...but when Jack says "it points to the thing you want MOST in this world" - he glaces down at her lips/LIZ herself....then she knows what he is refering to cuz she gets that giddy, flirty look on her face (not frustration) and says "Oh Jack, are you telling the truth"....."every word, luv"....then he holds her hand and places the compass in them....

8. On the beach, The compass once again points to Jack and she gets aggravated saying "This compass does not work and it certainly doesn't show you what you want most." Norrington knows the compass pointed to Jack and they show a shot of Norrington rolling his eyes with an expression that says "Oh Please, just admit that you want the guy and stop kidding yourself."

9. Back on the Pearl....Jack leaves in the longboat...we see that LIZ is the one who spots him out there...then we see his conscience get the best of him...he looks at his compass....and then there he is back on the Pearl..and the first person he sees is LIZ...she looks up to him and he surrounded by a halo of light...he picks up the rifle and she climbs up the stairs and clings to his leg...she doesn't run down the steps to check on Will and hold onto Will after he has taken a hard fall from the cargo net....

10. Jack is very solemn in this final scene..very serious, very sexy, very manly...very brave and very good.....he tells Gibb..."abandon ship into the longboat"....Gibbs says, "Jack, the Pearl." and Jack responds (about a ship he has risked his life for, that he fought through hell and high water to claim) "SHE"S ONLY A SHIP, MATE"...

11. Liz approaches Jack "THank you, Jack"...and he says, "We're not free yet, luv"....the serious, endearing way he is looking at her takes my breath away....so romantic....

12. She chains him to the mast....but she is torn up about it..she even moves in for a second kiss....I think that is the big clue that she is doing this to him to take away the temptation..it's a selfish impulse....

and this all reflects back to the curiosity conversation...

lovethemtigers
Oh and this video...it pretty much sums up all what we have been saying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vt5-mIeRoU

Watch it and you will see.....

Pirates life fo
Originally posted by LovelyOne
you are good at that kinda stuff though wink

is it octoberfest?

Is you know who gonna be there? If he does you gotta take drunken photos big grin

You know who might be there. havent gotten a chance to ask him about it yet. If he is, I will try and get some pics for you.

Pirates life fo
Originally posted by Mistypirate
No kidding Brad Pit talking about Orlie dying in potc3 laughing
Do you really believe that they would change the ending...? I don't think they would go to such great lengths and change the ending. I mean Orli dying in the movie is pretty much a fact. Do you think they are going to change it as to keep him alive and having him end happily ever after w/ Liz?

Scenes about what happens to Will have already been shot. To change it now would be to go back and reshoot a lot

LovelyOne
Originally posted by Pirates life fo
You know who might be there. havent gotten a chance to ask him about it yet. If he is, I will try and get some pics for you.

aww cool. ..the dude loves his drink laughing out loud.

I wanna see pics of you havin a good time too!..

I always wanted to see what Ocroberfest was like.

have a great time there BTW!

LovelyOne
Back on topic..I bet Liz is gonna do some desperate things again to try and save Will from that little fate..even if it hurts Jack in the process..but I still dont think thats the end of it..when she is safe with him she's going to go back to Jack. It keeps happening in DMC it will probably happen in AWE

Chiki Mina
i dont even know what october fest is...i need to update.

LovelyOne
tis a booze fest for beer I think..

Chiki Mina
I hate beer lol. Its probably bc I see my cousin drunk almost everytime I just cannot stand the beer odor and everytime he hugs me my clothes smells like beer all day. Smells like cat pee to me.

Surreal_44
No hard feelings luv. Besides, I don't intimidate easily. I can get irritated easily though, so I do apologize for harsh words from me earlier. As I said, you can say pretty much anything about me and I don't really care; you start saying stuff about other people (especially if they aren't present or able to defend themselves), that's when I get mad.


So like I said, no hard feelings, and let's try to keep a debate going where we aren't all getting mad at each other. big grin

willofthewisp
Oktober Fest is a traditional German holiday, famous for the amount of beer consumed. Many German Americans also celebrate Oktoberfest by having a festival and usually drinking. Think of a biergarten filled with drunk, singing German. Fun times. I'm of German heritage and it's a really fun atmosphere.

Chiki Mina
yea sounds like fun...same old beer and more beer. whats new.

LovelyOne
HOLY ish tigers you wrote an essay laughing out loud

awesome post BTW

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