Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

It seems that alot of people here don't understand what it's like to be atheist, or even, what it is. It's not a religion. And here's why.

Every religion has a belief system that can't be explained or proven by true science. An example is god. Another thing religion has is a prophet, someone who started the belief, or who believed it first. The third is a book, or a set of rules, something that the followers read to be "good". Another thing they have is a house, or a building in which the follwers go to to show respect. Teachers who adress the religion, (priests, bishops, mullars etc.). And lastly, a symble that represent their faith to it.

Christianity

Supernatural Beliefs: God, The Trinity, the life of Jesus, Moses, angels, the devil, heavan n hell, noah, Adam n Eve etc.
Prophet: Jesus (and possibly the very first people who actually wrote the Bible)
Book: Bible
Building: Church/Chaple
Teachers: Priest/Vicar < Bishop < Pope/Ruler of England
Symbol: Cross

Judaisism

Supernatural Beliefs: God, Adam n Eve, Moses, David, the devil, heavan n hell, Noah etc.
Prophet: Moses (I think)
Book: Torah
Building: Synagogue
Teacher: Rabbi
Symbol: 6 pointed star

Islam

Supernatural Beliefs: God, Heaven n Hell, The Earth being the centre of the world and no one able to leave it, Adam n Eve, the devil etc.
Prophet: Muhammed
Book: Quran
Building: Mosque
Teacher: Mullar < Cleric
Symbol: The moon n star

Sikhism

Supernatural Beliefs: God, the life of the ten gurus
Prophet: Guru Nanak
Book: Guru Granth Sahib
Building: Gurdwara
Teacher: Guru
Symbol: Khanda

Hinduism

Supernatural Beliefs: God, Shiva, Vishnu, Shakti, reincarnation etc.
Prophet: Unknown
Book: Karma
Building: Temple
Teacher: Guru
Symbol: Aum, Swastika

Buddhism

Supernatural Beliefs: Karma, Reincarnation, the life of Buddha
Prophet: Buddha
Book: Dhamma
Building: Temple
Teacher: Monks
Symbol: The Conch Shell, the Lotus, the Wheel, the Parasol (Umbrella), the Endless Knot, the Pair of Golden Fishes, the Banner, Proclaiming Victory, the Treasure Vase

Atheism

Supernatural Beliefs: None.
Prophet: None.
Book: None.
Building: None.
Teacher: None.
Symbol: None.

As you can see, Atheists have no book, beliefs, prophets etc. Atheism is not the disbelief of anything. It's the abscence of belief. It's not an organised alternative teaching method to youngens. It's not a religion. Don't treat it as one. Because that's where the problem stasts.

Excellent Thread....

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Excellent Thread....


Wow, we're on the same page here!

Great point(s) made.

That's it in a nut shell...

Yup. That about waxes it there.

But what about the brotherhood of athiesm!!!!

Glad to know I've made atleast one sensible thread.

Originally posted by lord xyz

Buddhism

Supernatural Beliefs: Karma, Reincarnation, the life of Buddha
Prophet: Buddha
Book: Dhamma
Building: Temple
Teacher: Monks
Symbol: The Conch Shell, the Lotus, the Wheel, the Parasol (Umbrella), the Endless Knot, the Pair of Golden Fishes, the Banner, Proclaiming Victory, the Treasure Vase

Few Misconceptions - Karma is not a supernatural beleif. Its a cause and effect.
Buddhists don't beieve in reincarnation, but re-birth.
How is life of Buddha supernatural?

You are not required to believe in the Life of buddha. I don't quite understand that...?

Buddha was not a prophet. He never claimed to be one and he is not deemed as one.

If you call Buddha prophet, you must call Karl Marx a prophet, Aristotle a prophet, Plato a prophet or any other philosopher who had a following would automatically become a prophet.

Buddhism is a philosophical view of life - Buddhists are people who agree with the basics of Buddhism and it can never be grouped in the all the other you posed.

Some Buddhists greatly ditest Buddhism to be a religion.

The symbols you talk about are not supernatural sumbols of any kind, they simply illustrate the philosophy. The wheel for example illustrates the basics of the enlightened path.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Few Misconceptions - Karma is not a supernatural beleif. Its a cause and effect.
Buddhists don't beieve in reincarnation, but re-birth.
How is life of Buddha supernatural?

You are not required to believe in the Life of buddha. I don't quite understand that...?

Buddha was not a prophet. He never claimed to be one and he is not deemed as one.

If you call Buddha prophet, you must call Karl Marx a prophet, Aristotle a prophet, Plato a prophet or any other philosopher who had a following would automatically become a prophet.

Buddhism is a philosophical view of life - Buddhists are people who agree with the basics of Buddhism and it can never be grouped in the all the other you posed.

Some Buddhists greatly ditest Buddhism to be a religion.

The symbols you talk about are not supernatural sumbols of any kind, they simply illustrate the philosophy. The wheel for example illustrates the basics of the enlightened path. hmm You make an interesting point. I myself have also wondered how Buddhism fell into the religion catagory.

Wait, isn't it said that Buddha sat under a tree for 20 years or something?

Atheism is "the doctrine or belief that there is no God" and "disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings."

Religion is "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs" and "something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience."

So, technically, atheism is a religion. Of course, that's being annoying and adhering to the strictest of definitions (something that some members of KMC have difficulty with in the first place).

Originally posted by lord xyz
As you can see, Atheists have no book, beliefs, prophets etc. Atheism is not the disbelief of anything. It's the abscence of belief. It's not an organised alternative teaching method to youngens. It's not a religion. Don't treat it as one. Because that's where the problem stasts.

I agree with you on that note, however, some atheists I know would dare to go as far and call Madalyn O'Hair the "prophet" of atheists. While she did dedicate her life to atheism and helped pave the road, she tried to make it into a religion of sorts. O'Hair's good friend Larry Flynt is quoted as saying, "If I could fault Madalyn for anything, it would be her making her atheism her religion. She was as feverish as they would be." We (Atheists) don't have a prophet or texts nor do we need them. However, I do hold a respect for O'Hair and what she did for atheism.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Atheism is "the doctrine or belief that there is no God" and "disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings."

Religion is "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs" and "something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience."

So, technically, atheism is a religion. Of course, that's being annoying and adhering to the strictest of definitions (something that some members of KMC have difficulty with in the first place). Only a Fundamentalist would say something like that. sadyes

Atheism is not the belief there is no god, most atheist don't know or understand the concept of god. Also, in religion, these beliefs have to be about something not the denial of something.

Originally posted by lord xyz
It seems that alot of people here don't understand what it's like to be atheist, or even, what it is. It's not a religion. And here's why.

Every religion has a belief system that can't be explained or proven by true science. An example is god. Another thing religion has is a prophet, someone who started the belief, or who believed it first. The third is a book, or a set of rules, something that the followers read to be "good". Another thing they have is a house, or a building in which the follwers go to to show respect. Teachers who adress the religion, (priests, bishops, mullars etc.). And lastly, a symble that represent their faith to it.



As you can see, Atheists have no book, beliefs, prophets etc. Atheism is not the disbelief of anything. It's the abscence of belief. It's not an organised alternative teaching method to youngens. It's not a religion. Don't treat it as one. Because that's where the problem stasts. While not a religion, it is a stance on the subject of religion. An atheist is not an unbiased entity. I believe the reason that religious individuals erroneously label atheism as a religion is due in part to the claim to it being an unbiased stance that has scientific support. Atheism does not have scientific support, theism has a lack of scientific support. The lack of support for the opposition cannot be taken as support for one's own position. It is an anti-religious stance, so it can be an anti-religion, dependant on the behavior of the individual/group.

Atheists that organize in any manner have in essence attained many of the aspects that define a religion. They do have a dogma based on antithesis to theist claims. There are teachers of atheism, I have attended lectures given by educated individuals on the subject of God that were entirely based on an atheist stance. There are sets of rules governing atheist behavior, they may not be as solid or well documented, but they do exist.

Atheism is the denial or disbelief in any form of deity. It is the definition. The claim to the absence, or lack, of belief being atheism is fallacious. Atheism is a stance on the subject of deity, it is not a position of ignorance on the subject.

Originally posted by lord xyz
hmm You make an interesting point. I myself have also wondered how Buddhism fell into the religion catagory.

Wait, isn't it said that Buddha sat under a tree for 20 years or something?

Nah. Overexaggagerated story.

There is another one, that Buddha started walking as soon as he was born and the lotus was blooming undeneath his feet.

Also, not true...or believed. As far as I know anyway.

Originally posted by Impediment
I agree with you on that note, however, some atheists I know would dare to go as far and call Madalyn O'Hair the "prophet" of atheists. While she did dedicate her life to atheism and helped pave the road, she tried to make it into a religion of sorts. O'Hair's good friend Larry Flynt is quoted as saying, "If I could fault Madalyn for anything, it would be her making her atheism her religion. She was as feverish as they would be." We (Atheists) don't have a prophet or texts nor do we need them. However, I do hold a respect for O'Hair and what she did for atheism. Talking about atheist prophecies, I believe that if anyone should be called "The prophet of atheism", it would be the englishman known as Sir Francis Bacon (1561 - 1626). Because it was he who thought of the philosophy where people aren't to serve god, rather they are to serve themself.

http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/bacon/

Originally posted by lord xyz
the philosophy where people aren't to serve god, rather they are to serve themself.

The Satanist also shares similar views, that self gratification and happiness during your time on Earth is better than serving a mythological figure.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Hinduism

Supernatural Beliefs: God, Shiva, Vishnu, Shakti, reincarnation etc.
Prophet: Unknown
Book: Karma Bhagavad Gita
Building: Temple
Teacher: Guru
Symbol: Aum, Swastika That was a typo. Karma was supposed to go in the beliefs section.

Talking about atheist prophets is sort silly no matter who you choose.

I think that some schools of Buddhism can definitely be clasified as religious; at it's root, it's just a philosophy.

Originally posted by Impediment
The Satanist also shares similar views, that self gratification and happiness during your time on Earth is better than serving a mythological figure. Personally, I agree. I'm my own man, I was created by sex, not a wizard in the sky.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Atheism is "the doctrine or belief that there is no God" and "disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings."

Here's your problem. There is no "doctrine."

If the only thing unifying a group of people is one principle, then poltical parties are more religious than atheism.

Originally posted by lord xyz
hmm You make an interesting point. I myself have also wondered how Buddhism fell into the religion catagory.

Wait, isn't it said that Buddha sat under a tree for 20 years or something? Oh yeah, Hinduism is also a kind of philosophy/religion mix. Meaning it's philosophical aswell as religious. Things like Karma for example.
Originally posted by Gregory
Talking about atheist prophets is sort silly no matter who you choose.

I think that some schools of Buddhism can definitely be clasified as religious; at it's root, it's just a philosophy. Agreed.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Only a Fundamentalist would say something like that. sadyes

Atheism is not the belief there is no god, most atheist don't know or understand the concept of god. Also, in religion, these beliefs have to be about something not the denial of something.
I guess the dictionary was written by fundamentalists.
Originally posted by Alliance
Here's your problem. There is no "doctrine."

If the only thing unifying a group of people is one principle, then poltical parties are more religious than atheism.
Don't blame me, blame the dictionary.

Atheism is not a belief system. It doesn' t consist of an integrated system of doctrines, beliefs, and ideas that are used to provide guidance and stability in people' s lives. Atheism implies no further belief system. It implies no beliefs about politics, no philosophy, no beliefs about society, no beliefs about science, no beliefs about religion. If you know that a person is an atheist, then you know that he or she lacks belief in gods. Nothing more, nothing less. Atheism can be part of a religion, but it can' t be a religion by itself.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheism

kthx

Atheism is disbelief. Agnosticism is lack of belief.

Originally posted by FeceMan
I guess the dictionary was written by fundamentalists.

Don't blame me, blame the dictionary.

Its well known that dictionaried give populist and common definitions of terms. Dictionarty defintinons are rearely used in scholarly research because they are simply inadequate.

I'd never use a dictionary for a defintion fo a scientific or philisophical concept. You instead use the true definiton created by researchers in the field.

Originally posted by Alliance
Its well known that dictionaried give populist and common definitions of terms. Dictionarty defintinons are rearely used in scholarly research because they are simply inadequate.

I'd never use a dictionary for a defintion fo a scientific or philisophical concept. You instead use the true definiton created by researchers in the field.
kk

Tell that to the people here who cite the dictionary like it's Scripture itself.

And I already said that atheism isn't a religion, by the way.

I know.

The elitst in me says that the average man is dumb. I've done the dictionary battle before. 13 year olds just dont get it, do they?

Dictionary.com is just a website, it could say that poo means chinese food, that doesn't make it true, does it?

Originally posted by lord xyz
Dictionary.com is just a website, it could say that poo means chinese food, that doesn't make it true, does it?
Don't even try that. It's an online dictionary; I even count Wikipedia as being valid.

Wikipedia is only a semi-credible source.

Originally posted by Alliance
Wikipedia is only a semi-credible source. yep.

So wait ... if you don't think dictionaries are authoratative for philosophical beliefs, and you don't think atheism is a religion even though you found a dictionary definition that might connceivible support claiming that it is, then what ... I mean ...

If you don't think the dictionary is accurate for philosophical definitions, and you disagree with the implications of the definition you're quoting, then why, exactly, are you letting us know dictionary.com's take on this matter?

Valid question.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Atheism is "the doctrine or belief that there is no God" and "disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings."

Religion is "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs" and "something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience."

So, technically, atheism is a religion. Of course, that's being annoying and adhering to the strictest of definitions (something that some members of KMC have difficulty with in the first place).
The best definition of religion I have seen is in The Encyclopedia of Philosophy. It lists traits of religions rather than declaring religion to be one thing or another, arguing that the more markers present in a belief system, the more "religious like" it is:
Belief in supernatural beings (gods).
A distinction between sacred and profane objects.
Ritual acts focused on sacred objects.
A moral code believed to be sanctioned by the gods.
Characteristically religious feelings (awe, sense of mystery, sense of guilt, adoration), which tend to be aroused in the presence of sacred objects and during the practice of ritual, and which are connected in idea with the gods.
Prayer and other forms of communication with gods.
A world view, or a general picture of the world as a whole and the place of the individual therein. This picture contains some specification of an over-all purpose or point of the world and an indication of how the individual fits into it.
A more or less total organization of one's life based on the world view.
A social group bound together by the above.

Yes, but it consistantly amazes me that the most basic research isn't taught in schools.

Originally posted by Storm
The best definition of religion I have seen is in The Encyclopedia of Philosophy. It lists traits of religions rather than declaring religion to be one thing or another, arguing that the more markers present in a belief system, the more "religious like" it is:
Belief in supernatural beings (gods).
A distinction between sacred and profane objects.
Ritual acts focused on sacred objects.
A moral code believed to be sanctioned by the gods.
Characteristically religious feelings (awe, sense of mystery, sense of guilt, adoration), which tend to be aroused in the presence of sacred objects and during the practice of ritual, and which are connected in idea with the gods.
Prayer and other forms of communication with gods.
A world view, or a general picture of the world as a whole and the place of the individual therein. This picture contains some specification of an over-all purpose or point of the world and an indication of how the individual fits into it.
A more or less total organization of one's life based on the world view.
A social group bound together by the above.
That is a good definition.

However, so many people seem to think that what the dictionary says is infallible. It's a lot like playing D&D with the rules-as-written--interpreting the rules exactly as they are written leads to retarded things.

Originally posted by Storm
The best definition of religion I have seen is in The Encyclopedia of Philosophy. It lists traits of religions rather than declaring religion to be one thing or another, arguing that the more markers present in a belief system, the more "religious like" it is:
Belief in supernatural beings (gods).
A distinction between sacred and profane objects.
Ritual acts focused on sacred objects.
A moral code believed to be sanctioned by the gods.
Characteristically religious feelings (awe, sense of mystery, sense of guilt, adoration), which tend to be aroused in the presence of sacred objects and during the practice of ritual, and which are connected in idea with the gods.
Prayer and other forms of communication with gods.
A world view, or a general picture of the world as a whole and the place of the individual therein. This picture contains some specification of an over-all purpose or point of the world and an indication of how the individual fits into it.
A more or less total organization of one's life based on the world view.
A social group bound together by the above. And surpirse surprise, none of those things are what Atheists do.

Originally posted by lord xyz
And surpirse surprise, none of those things are what Atheists do.
They do organize their life around their worldview in many ways though. I tend to define religion as a worldview and that would classify atheism as a religion. However, classically, I suppose that it isn't.

There is a difference between religion and a religous philosophy.

Literalism is a religous philosophy (it can be aplied to all relgions and things outside). It is a way of thinking.

Athiesm is similar to a religous philosophy.

Originally posted by Alliance
There is a difference between religion and a religous philosophy.

Literalism is a religous philosophy (it can be aplied to all relgions and things outside). It is a way of thinking.

Athiesm is similar to a religous philosophy.
Basically.

Originally posted by Nellinator
They do organize their life around their worldview in many ways though. I tend to define religion as a worldview and that would classify atheism as a religion. However, classically, I suppose that it isn't. I guess Socialism is also a religion then, huh?

Originally posted by lord xyz
I guess Socialism is also a religion then, huh?
For some people.

No, not for anyone.

Only for morons.

Originally posted by Alliance
No, not for anyone.
Some people are fantasically devoted to socialism, would die for it, kill for it. Pretty "religious" if you ask me. It really depends on how loose your definition of religion is.

No, thats called devotion. You can be religious and not be devoted. You can like anything a lot.

Then any government could be considered a religion. Thats clearly not the case.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Some people are fantasically devoted to socialism, would die for it, kill for it. Pretty "religious" if you ask me. It really depends on how loose your definition of religion is. hmm Interseting. did you know that most of Hezbullah are socialist and/or communist?

Originally posted by lord xyz
hmm Interseting. did you know that most of Hezbullah are socialist and/or communist?
No.

Originally posted by Nellinator
No. Well, they are! But that doesn't make socialism a religion.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Well, they are! But that doesn't make socialism a religion.
I never said it did.

Well most religions can also be considered a cult as well.

Originally posted by Regret
I do hope that was supposed to be physics... duuuh

one of my common messups like form and from and fourm

Originally posted by ThePittman
duuuh

one of my common messups like form and from and fourm Don't worry about it, I read it as physics.

edit: I also read fourm as forum.

Originally posted by ThePittman
duuuh

one of my common messups like form and from and fourm Np. There are some that post in these forums that would think psychics were a valid educational topic... Had to make you clear for them

Originally posted by Regret
Np. There are some that post in these forums that would think psychics were a valid educational topic... Had to make you clear for them I'm better at art then spelling

Originally posted by lord xyz
Only a Fundamentalist would say something like that. sadyes

Atheism is not the belief there is no god, most atheist don't know or understand the concept of god. Also, in religion, these beliefs have to be about something not the denial of something.

So atheists DO believe in a god? so then they ARE a religion!

You either do or ou don't, that what i say

Originally posted by Emo?
So atheists DO believe in a god? so then they ARE a religion!

You either do or ou don't, that what i say

No.

Then you have a very one dimensional view of the world.

Atheism is simply the rejection of all other religions. So no, it's not a Religion.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
No.

Then you have a very one dimensional view of the world.

Atheists think they are god in their own special way. They only do things THEY want themselves to do(replacing a god telling them), which isn't always the right way, leading to greed, jealousy, murder even, because they only think about themselves unless they want to think about others. Meaning all that controls them is someone else forcing them.

Originally posted by Emo?
Atheists think they are god in their own special way. They only do things THEY want themselves to do(replacing a god telling them), which isn't always the right way, leading to greed, jealousy, murder even, because they only think about themselves unless they want to think about others. Meaning all that controls them is someone else forcing them.

Wow. Shut up. Please. You're offending half the forum here and alot of my friends by overgeneralizing.

Originally posted by Emo?
Atheists think they are god in their own special way. They only do things THEY want themselves to do(replacing a god telling them), which isn't always the right way, leading to greed, jealousy, murder even, because they only think about themselves unless they want to think about others. Meaning all that controls them is someone else forcing them.

1. This doesn't even make logical sense even if you accept all your assertions are true.

2. Your assertions aren't true.

What is your evidence for this, or are you just here to spew unbased opinons all over the web?

Originally posted by Alliance
1. This doesn't even make logical sense even if you accept all your assertions are true.

2. Your assertions aren't true.

What is your evidence for this, or are you just here to spew unbased opinons all over the web?

Ok, when you see a poor person on the street, you could help them, who's rules do you follow, yours? or gods?

Originally posted by Emo?
Atheists think they are god in their own special way. They only do things THEY want themselves to do(replacing a god telling them), which isn't always the right way, leading to greed, jealousy, murder even, because they only think about themselves unless they want to think about others. Meaning all that controls them is someone else forcing them. Athiest's don't think their God... The whole point of Athiesm is to reject the idea of God(s)... Therefor your post just isn't logical.

Originally posted by Emo?
Ok, when you see a poor person on the street, who's rules do you follow, yours? or gods?

Yours. That means charity. Charity does NOT only stem from God.

Originally posted by Emo?
Ok, when you see a poor person on the street, you could help them, who's rules do you follow, yours? or gods?

Which god? I don't actually give to people on the street because many of them are scammers. I prefer to donate my time cooking meals for homeless shelters and working at the Chicago food depository.

Originally posted by Emo?
Ok, when you see a poor person on the street, you could help them, who's rules do you follow, yours? or gods?

Since when are there rules to act to a homeless person? Just because a person is Athiest it doesn't mean they can't be kind and generous. They can do the "Christian" thing without actually believing in the religion.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
Yours. That means charity. Charity does NOT only stem from God.

Ok, that's good.

Lets say you have a burger in your hand, and you was far from anywhere else to get food, and you yourself was starving, nevermind the poor person. what then?

Originally posted by lord xyz
Then why did you say all other religions?

You got me there... Touche.

Originally posted by Emo?
So atheists DO believe in a god? so then they ARE a religion!

You either do or ou don't, that what i say WTF are you talking about, I didn't say that ****tard.

And whichever god you want.

Originally posted by lord xyz
WTF are you talking about, I didn't say that ****tard.

seesh, only joking.

Originally posted by Emo?
Atheists think they are god in their own special way. They only do things THEY want themselves to do(replacing a god telling them), which isn't always the right way, leading to greed, jealousy, murder even, because they only think about themselves unless they want to think about others. Meaning all that controls them is someone else forcing them. If only that was true.

Originally posted by Emo?
Ok, that's good.

Lets say you have a burger in your hand, and you was far from anywhere else to get food, and you yourself was starving, nevermind the poor person. what then?

What would a Christian do? They'd ignore them.

Me? I'd eat the burger. You? You would too.

Originally posted by Emo?
Ok, that's good.

Lets say you have a burger in your hand, and you was far from anywhere else to get food, and you yourself was starving, nevermind the poor person. what then?

I'd walk straight past...

I don't give food to homeless people... I sometimes buy a big issue but that's my limit... If you give food to one homeless person then you have to do it to everyone you walk past. If you never give any of them then you can't feel guilty.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
What would a Christian do? They'd ignore them.

Me? I'd eat the burger. You? You would too.

Does the bible say that? nonono i don't think so... "think of others before yourself".

So you was thinking yourself as a god then? thinking of yourself asthough you were more important than the poor person?

Originally posted by Emo?
seesh, only joking. Somehow I doubt that.

Originally posted by Emo?
Does the bible say that? nonono i don't think so... "think of others before yourself".

Do Christians follow the bible to the T? Nonononono.

Originally posted by Emo?
Does the bible say that? nonono i don't think so... "think of others before yourself".

**** the Bible, Think for yourself.

Originally posted by Emo?
Does the bible say that? nonono i don't think so... "think of others before yourself".

So you was thinking yourself as a god then? thinking of yourself asthough you were more important than the poor person? If that is an absolute, and the right thing to do, it would be an instinct. The way I see it, instincts are the only thing right because we do it without thinking.

Originally posted by lord xyz
If that is an absolute, and the right thing to do, it would be an instinct. The way I see it, instincts are the only thing right because we do it without thinking.

It isn't instinct, if we do the right thing without thinking, killing someone without thinking is right.

Originally posted by Emo?
It isn't instinct, if we do the right thing without thinking, killing someone without thinking is right.

It also isn't considered a damning sin.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
Do Christians follow the bible to the T? Nonononono.

They try to, they atleast TRY. Nobody is perfect.

Originally posted by Emo?
They try to, they atleast TRY. Nobody is perfect.

And again, a Christian would do the same as me, no matter how "devout" they were.

Originally posted by Emo?
They try to, they atleast TRY. Nobody is perfect.

Menaing that you are not perfect meaning that in a plural society, you do not have the right ot judge anyone because they don't conform to your relative standards.

Emo, did you read my first post?

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
And again, a Christian would do the same as me, no matter how "devout" they were.
Wait a second, there is a less chance if
1. The rules of the country say you shouldn't
2. a god says you shouldn;t

But with atheism there is only no1

Originally posted by Emo?
whatever

No. His point is that there is no correlation between morality and religion.

{edit} This used to make sense, but then Emo?s post changed.

true

Lol editted

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
And again, a Christian would do the same as me, no matter how "devout" they were.

No, a christian is more likely to help them than you, because you don't have to, i would atleast share it.

Originally posted by Emo?
No, a christian is more likely to help them than you, because you don't have to, i would atleast share it.

And why do you have to? Because you won't get into heaven if you don't? That seems kind of selfish to me. If you help someone for your own benefit, you aren't practicing what Jesus preached. You're only doing it for yourself. That would make Jesus ashamed.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
And why do you have to? Because you won't get into heaven if you don't? That seems kind of selfish to me. If you help someone for your own benefit, you aren't practicing what Jesus preached. You're only doing it for yourself. That would make Jesus ashamed.

You really think i'm doing this because of that? you can think what you like, but i wouldn't be trying to tell you this if i could simply get to heaven without doing so i don't need to be telling you this, i have been "hypocritical" on here before you know. I'm just doing this cause i believe that's what god wants me to do, even though it doesn't make any difference about going to heaven.

Originally posted by Emo?
You really think i'm doing this because of that? you can think what you like, but i wouldn't be trying to tell you this if i could simply get to heaven without doing so i don't need to be telling you this, i have been "hypocritical" on here before you know. I'm just doing this cause i believe that's what god wants me to do, even though it doesn't make any difference about going to heaven. You're a joke.

Originally posted by Emo?
No, a christian is more likely to help them than you, because you don't have to, i would atleast share it. And a christian is less likely to solve a cure for a disease.

It's a strong belief that can heal someones ailments...Not a certain god, but the belief in that thing....could be any strong belief.

Originally posted by lord xyz
It seems that alot of people here don't understand what it's like to be atheist, or even, what it is. It's not a religion. And here's why.

Every religion has a belief system that can't be explained or proven by true science. An example is god. Another thing religion has is a prophet, someone who started the belief, or who believed it first. The third is a book, or a set of rules, something that the followers read to be "good". Another thing they have is a house, or a building in which the follwers go to to show respect. Teachers who adress the religion, (priests, bishops, mullars etc.). And lastly, a symble that represent their faith to it.

Christianity

Supernatural Beliefs: God, The Trinity, the life of Jesus, Moses, angels, the devil, heavan n hell, noah, Adam n Eve etc.
Prophet: Jesus (and possibly the very first people who actually wrote the Bible)
Book: Bible
Building: Church/Chaple
Teachers: Priest/Vicar < Bishop < Pope/Ruler of England
Symbol: Cross

Judaisism

Supernatural Beliefs: God, Adam n Eve, Moses, David, the devil, heavan n hell, Noah etc.
Prophet: Moses (I think)
Book: Torah
Building: Synagogue
Teacher: Rabbi
Symbol: 6 pointed star

Islam

Supernatural Beliefs: God, Heaven n Hell, The Earth being the centre of the world and no one able to leave it, Adam n Eve, the devil etc.
Prophet: Muhammed
Book: Quran
Building: Mosque
Teacher: Mullar < Cleric
Symbol: The moon n star

Sikhism

Supernatural Beliefs: God, the life of the ten gurus
Prophet: Guru Nanak
Book: Guru Granth Sahib
Building: Gurdwara
Teacher: Guru
Symbol: Khanda

Hinduism

Supernatural Beliefs: God, Shiva, Vishnu, Shakti, reincarnation etc.
Prophet: Unknown
Book: Karma
Building: Temple
Teacher: Guru
Symbol: Aum, Swastika

Buddhism

Supernatural Beliefs: Karma, Reincarnation, the life of Buddha
Prophet: Buddha
Book: Dhamma
Building: Temple
Teacher: Monks
Symbol: The Conch Shell, the Lotus, the Wheel, the Parasol (Umbrella), the Endless Knot, the Pair of Golden Fishes, the Banner, Proclaiming Victory, the Treasure Vase

Atheism

Supernatural Beliefs: None.
Prophet: None.
Book: None.
Building: None.
Teacher: None.
Symbol: None.

As you can see, Atheists have no book, beliefs, prophets etc. Atheism is not the disbelief of anything. It's the abscence of belief. It's not an organised alternative teaching method to youngens. It's not a religion. Don't treat it as one. Because that's where the problem stasts.

There is no such animal as an absence of belief for even if an atheist does not believe, there decision to not believe constitutes a belief. Atheist do believe something: they believe (wholeheartedly and sincerely) that God does not exist. That is there belief. It is a negative belief but still a belief nonetheless.

Originally posted by Emo?
You really think i'm doing this because of that? you can think what you like, but i wouldn't be trying to tell you this if i could simply get to heaven without doing so i don't need to be telling you this, i have been "hypocritical" on here before you know. I'm just doing this cause i believe that's what god wants me to do, even though it doesn't make any difference about going to heaven.

Doing what? I've not seen you 'do' anything. I'm addressing your use of the phrase "you don't have to" in regards to helping someone. Which implies you feel you do have to help someone. Some where between "don't have to" and "doesn't make any difference about going to heaven" you've got to admit there's a bit of a disparity in your position.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Atheist do believe something: they believe (wholeheartedly and sincerely) that God does not exist. That is there belief. It is a negative belief but still a belief nonetheless.

Why is it negative, JIA? That would be like me saying that your belief in Jesus is negative. Say what you will, but calling another person's belief negative, to me, is very close minded and ignorant.

Originally posted by Impediment
Why is it negative, JIA? That would be like me saying that your belief in Jesus is negative. Say what you will, but calling another person's belief negative, to me, is very close minded and ignorant.


You haven't heard that one of my pet peeves if you would is being misquoted. I said that there belief is "a" negative meaning that it is the opposite. I did not say that it is negative. Believe it or not there is a difference pal. But since you brought up the subject atheism is negative. There is nothing good about it. The fool has said in his heart that there is no God.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
But since you brought up the subject atheism is negative. There is nothing good about it. The fool has said in his heart that there is no God.


Again, you're bashing beliefs, trying to make your beliefs superior to others than your own.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You haven't heard that one of my pet peeves if you would is being misquoted. I said that there belief is "a" negative meaning that it is the opposite. I did not say that it is negative. Believe it or not there is a difference pal. But since you brought up the subject atheism is negative. There is nothing good about it. The fool has said in his heart that there is no God. Fact 1) You understand nothing about the various forms of atheism.
Fact 2) Christianity is a based on ideas and rituals appropriated from other (pagan) religions. The current state of the Bible having undergone various translations, omissions and falsifications in no way resembles how it was originally written - you sanctify a false idol.
Fact 3) Your haughty attitude and preaching are sickening and you're a hypocrite.

The fool is the one who has said there is your god and only your god.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Fact 1) You understand nothing about the various forms of atheism.
Fact 2) Christianity is a based on ideas and rituals appropriated from other (pagan) religions. The current state of the Bible having undergone various translations, omissions and falsifications in no way resembles how it was originally written - you sanctify a false idol.
Fact 3) Your haughty attitude and preaching are sickening and you're a hypocrite.

The fool is the one who has said there is your god and only your god.

Haughty attitude? How so X-women? (Don't get bent out of shape I am just joking.) First off I didn't call you or any atheist a fool--God did so throw your rocks at God. Express your tantrums at God not me.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
There is no such animal as an absence of belief for even if an atheist does not believe, there decision to not believe constitutes a belief. Atheist do believe something: they believe (wholeheartedly and sincerely) that God does not exist. That is there belief. It is a negative belief but still a belief nonetheless.

Doesn't change the fact that they are not believing in a God and thus different from a religion.

Belief alone does not make a person religious. I believe England will win the Ashes again this cricket season. I believe Australia wont. That doesn't make me religious or Cricket a religion.

You believe ina God, you follow a religion. An Atheist doesn't, thus they aren't following a religion. Atheist is lack of belief in a God, and religion has never been defined as also including "lack of belief in a God" since it requires belief in something of a religious belief to be a religion.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Doesn't change the fact that they are not believing in a God and thus different from a religion.

Belief alone does not make a person religious. I believe England will win the Ashes again this cricket season. I believe Australia wont. That doesn't make me religious or Cricket a religion.

You believe ina God, you follow a religion. An Atheist doesn't, thus they aren't following a religion. Atheist is lack of belief in a God, and religion has never been defined as also including "lack of belief in a God" since it requires belief in something of a religious belief to be a religion.

Buddy ole pal, I didn't say that it did change anything did I? Neither did I affirm that a belief made an atheist religious did I? I simply settled the fact that there is not an absence of belief as your boy xyz asserted. Ecumenically speaking atheists do believe something that is all I endeavored to establish, and that I did.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Buddy ole pal, I didn't say that it did change anything did I? Neither did I affirm that a belief made an atheist religious did I? I simply settled the fact that there is not an absence of belief as your boy xyz asserted. Ecumenically speaking atheists do believe something that is all I endeavored to establish, and that I did.

Ok.

Originally posted by Impediment
Again, you're bashing beliefs, trying to make your beliefs superior to others than your own.

Tell me something Impediment: God says that the fool has said in his heart there is no God. If any person dies not believing that Jesus Christ is He (whatever Jesus meant by that) then according to the Bible they have died in their sins. Again, tell me what is good about dying in your sins? So to me atheism is negative.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Tell me something Impediment: God says that the fool has said in his heart there is no God. If any person dies not believing that Jesus Christ is He (whatever Jesus meant by that) then according to the Bible they have died in their sins. Again, tell me what is good about dying in your sins? So to me atheism is negative.

Assuming that your understand of the bible, and the bible its self, it true.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Tell me something Impediment: God says that the fool has said in his heart there is no God. If any person dies not believing that Jesus Christ is He (whatever Jesus meant by that) then according to the Bible they have died in their sins. Again, tell me what is good about dying in your sins? So to me atheism is negative.

At the risk of being accused at taking up someone else's argument...

To an atheist it isn't. An atheist doesn't believe there is a God, thus there are no sins - simply man made laws and concepts of right and wrong. For many Atheists religions are not right to them. Ergo they will not join them, as they believe they are doing what is right.

Someone once asked "but God might exist so why not cover all bases and just play along" - but to me that is intolerable. One should have conviction in what they are doing, as well as an open mind. The thought that there might be a Jesus is not reason enough to submit oneself to a religion that doesn't feel right and has moral and ethical problems in my view. Ergo an atheist is not dying in their sins in their eyes. They are living good full lives and then they will die and that will be it, and none of this is a negative. It is only by your definition that there is something wrong with atheism, something no atheist feels is justified.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Again, tell me what is good about dying in your sins?

umm...better than dying for other people's sins

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
umm...better than dying for other people's sins

Dying in sin or dying for another's sins makes sin into something bigger then it really is. Sin is not a condition or a thing you can batter with. Sin is simple making mistakes.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Dying in sin or dying for another's sins makes sin into something bigger then it really is. Sin is not a condition or a thing you can batter with. Sin is simple making mistakes.

if sins are simply mistakes, then how can anyone say God hasn't sinned?

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
if sins are simply mistakes, then how can anyone say God hasn't sinned?

That is kind of the point I was trying to make to JIA in another thread, but he dodges so much.

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
if sins are simply mistakes, then how can anyone say God hasn't sinned?

If God is everything, then sin would be part of God.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If God is everything, then sin would be part of God.

very confusing, this Christianity

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
very confusing, this Christianity

I'm not a Christian.

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
if sins are simply mistakes, then how can anyone say God hasn't sinned?

Friend, sin is not a "simple mistake". Sin is transgressing, violating, or breaking God's Word (or Law, they are tantamount). Sin is a trespass against God's standard of righteousness. The penalty is so severe that it alienates us from God's love and separates us from God (the Source of all life), thus causing death to the transgressor.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Friend, sin is not a "simple mistake". Sin is transgressing, violating, or breaking God's Word (or law, they are tantamount). Sin is a trespass against God's standard of righteousness. The penalty is so severe that it separates us from God (the Source of all life) thus causing death to the transgressor.

This standard of righteousness is found in a book written my man.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Friend, sin is not a "simple mistake". Sin is transgressing, violating, or breaking God's Word (or Law, they are tantamount). Sin is a trespass against God's standard of righteousness. The penalty is so severe that it alienates us from God's love and separates us from God (the Source of all life), thus causing death to the transgressor.


but there is...forgiveness of sins, right?

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
very confusing, this Christianity

God is not everything Morgoths, that is defined as pantheism.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
God is not everything Morgoths, that is defined as pantheism.

Then there is something greater then your god.

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
very confusing, this Christianity

That is why I (and others who've confessed Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior) are here to help you Morgoths. We are here to help you and anyone else understand the gospel (i.e. the good news for this is what gospel means).

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Haughty attitude? How so X-women? (Don't get bent out of shape I am just joking.) First off I didn't call you or any atheist a fool--God did so throw your rocks at God. Express your tantrums at God not me. Oh be quiet you mindless plebian.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Haughty attitude? How so X-women? (Don't get bent out of shape I am just joking.) First off I didn't call you or any atheist a fool--God did so throw your rocks at God. Express your tantrums at God not me.
That' s a deliberate abdication of personal responsibility. You pick and choose, deciding how to best interpret and implement what you read based on your beliefs and prejudices. This makes you personally responsible for what you say.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Doing what? I've not seen you 'do' anything. I'm addressing your use of the phrase "you don't have to" in regards to helping someone. Which implies you feel you do have to help someone. Some where between "don't have to" and "doesn't make any difference about going to heaven" you've got to admit there's a bit of a disparity in your position.

I'm sticking up for my religion, and have done on here before, even if it was an attempt that i might not be good at, i still try. Also i'm doing this for other people (thinking about them), because i believe there is a god and i don't want people going to hell, so to try and make people think might change that. I don't HAVE to try and do this, i could simply just stop posting here right now.

Originally posted by Emo?
I'm sticking up for my religion, and have done on here before, even if it was an attempt that i might not be good at, i still try. Also i'm doing this for other people (thinking about them), because i believe there is a god and i don't want people going to hell, so to try and make people think might change that. I don't HAVE to try and do this, i could simply just stop posting here right now.

Then STOP POSTING please.

Originally posted by Emo?
I'm sticking up for my religion, and have done on here before, even if it was an attempt that i might not be good at, i still try. Also i'm doing this for other people (thinking about them), because i believe there is a god and i don't want people going to hell, so to try and make people think might change that. I don't HAVE to try and do this, i could simply just stop posting here right now. No one here wants or needs your "salvation".

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Friend, sin is not a "simple mistake". Sin is transgressing, violating, or breaking God's Word (or Law, they are tantamount). Sin is a trespass against God's standard of righteousness. The penalty is so severe that it alienates us from God's love and separates us from God (the Source of all life), thus causing death to the transgressor. And sinse we're all born with sin, we are all born against god, because our ancestors Adam and Eve were against god. And by confessing our sins we get to be with god when we die.

Wouldn't it make more sense that when we confess we automatically go to heaven?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
There is no such animal as an absence of belief for even if an atheist does not believe, there decision to not believe constitutes a belief. Atheist do believe something: they believe (wholeheartedly and sincerely) that God does not exist. That is there belief. It is a negative belief but still a belief nonetheless. It is not a belief it's the denial of a belief or a concept.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You haven't heard that one of my pet peeves if you would is being misquoted. I said that there belief is "a" negative meaning that it is the opposite. I did not say that it is negative. Believe it or not there is a difference pal. But since you brought up the subject atheism is negative. There is nothing good about it. The fool has said in his heart that there is no God. Now who is attacking who now.

I like you new way of insulting people then trying to cover it up saying it was a joke, very holy of you. If you say ā€œwith all due respect, your and a$$holeā€ you have still called them and ā€œa$$holeā€.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
That is why I (and others who've confessed Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior) are here to help you Morgoths. We are here to help you and anyone else understand the gospel (i.e. the good news for this is what gospel means).


Again with the name calling, JIA. You are truly a hippocrite. First it was Crosspatch, now it's Morgoth..............What would Jesus say?

I'm still shocked at how people can be this ****ed. Really, how can their minds be so damaged?

Originally posted by Impediment
Again with the name calling, JIA. You are truly a hippocrite. First it was Crosspatch, now it's Morgoth..............What would Jesus say?

He was not calling anyone names.

fvget

Originally posted by Impediment
Again with the name calling, JIA. You are truly a hippocrite. First it was Crosspatch, now it's Morgoth..............What would Jesus say?

But you were a crosspatch (i.e. a grouch). I call a spade a spade. There is such a thing as a grouch. Morgoth is a forum name.

Originally posted by ThePittman
Well most religions can also be considered a cult as well. I've always wondered what the difference was between a religion and a cult. If 100 million people join a cult, does it become a religion?

(I did in fact read the rest of the thread, don't worry)

Originally posted by Strangelove
I've always wondered what the difference was between a religion and a cult. If 100 million people join a cult, does it become a religion?

(I did in fact read the rest of the thread, don't worry) A religion is organised.

Originally posted by lord xyz
A religion is organised.

So are some cults.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So are some cults. Then I have no idea. srug

Originally posted by lord xyz
Then I have no idea. srug

Popularity... If you are small and a threat to the big religions, you are called a cult. However, if you become one of the big religions because everyone joins, you are no longer a cult.

Using dictionary.com (realizing the discussion previous):

Cult- a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
Religion- a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects