Please stop with the Full-Power Galactus Nonsense!!

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leonidas
not sure why i've heard so much of this recently but it's getting ridiculous. seems people are thinking galactus has been shown to be at full power at some point.

HE. HAS. NOT.

someone brought up doom had his 'full power' after g absorbed his 'world ship', the ship that 'perhaps' was the greatest energy source in the universe. how the hell could the worldship have more energy than the entire universe!!? simple: it couldn't. ergo, that wasn't full power. no one has ever seen ful power g. after absorbing the world ship he was expected to next absorb war world then absorb the sun. he wanted all the power he could get to fight the beyonder. if he was still planning to absorb more AFTER the world ship, how in the hell could he have reached full power?? and doom's claim of 'omniscience' certainly is not enough to justify 'full' power, or his being 'equal to eternity'. compared to his limited mortal percpetions, OF COURSE having galactus's perceptions would seem like omniscience to doom.

full power galactus is a HYPOTHETICAL being. given that the non-canon (and INCREDIBLY CRAPPY) last planet standing had g ready to create a new big bang so he could achieve the 'next evolution of his power' (notice not 'full power', or even the 'LAST stage of his evolution') it seems to stand to reason that we will never SEE a full power g -- at least not in THIS universe.

what is the most powerful version of g we have seen? that's up for debate. when he absorbed the dreaming celestial THAT was impressive, even though he wasn't really in his right mind it shows what he IS capable of. destroying (supposedly) galaxies in battle with tyrant is a strong showing as well. i'm sure he was powerful after the worldship, but not AS powerful as he would have been had he absorbed the planet and its sun. he had some good feats in the first few issues of thanos's series, trying to get things to end his hunger.

i'm sure i've forgotten others.

just please, end the madness of this 'full power galactus' crapola. we don't even know for CERTAIN full-power=eternity. that is pure speculation and IF he ever reaches that level, he may well be shown to be something quite different.

he has never been shown to be at full power, and he probably never will be shown.

sorry this was lengthy.

end rant. big grin

Sparkz
It was said that his ship was the greatest energy source, that dosen't mean it would fully charge Galactus, come to think of it, do we know if Galactus has an upper limit to the amount of energy he can "eat"?

leonidas
no we don't. and it was said that his ship was PERHAPS the greatest energy source. which, in retrospect, is a very stupid claim and has been shown to clearly be wrong given what has been discovered SINCE that time. unless we say the gems, the hotu, the starbrand and all these other uber power sources came into being AFTER galactus's ship was destroyed . . .

no such thing as full power galactus. no one even knows 'for certain' exactly what he will be if he ever DID attain this mythical level of power.

Kid Kurdy
I have said the same thing about the Full Power Galactus for quite some time... but some people just don't want to understand it.

newjak86
Good rant Leo

leonidas
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
I have said the same thing about the Full Power Galactus for quite some time... but some people just don't want to understand it.

i hear ya. and given that i know you to be a logical and knowledgeable chap, glad to see you agree.

wink

leonidas
Originally posted by newjak86
Good rant Leo

merci. i just got finished admiring your own little rant in the wand/white phoenix thread.

wink

Kid Kurdy
Originally posted by leonidas
i hear ya. and given that i know you to be a logical and knowledgeable chap, glad to see you agree.

wink
You just earned an extra point.

newjak86
Originally posted by leonidas
merci. i just got finished admiring your own little rant in the wand/white phoenix thread.

wink Thank you

leonidas
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
You just earned an extra point.

laughing out loud

King Kandy
I'm glad this thread was made... There were some propostrerous claims...

bigbran
We may never see him at that level.
But to know there is a upper limit to the countless galaxy destroying, stalemating In-Betweener (at a hungry level), makes him quite the force.

Hell every time he has fought Surfer to my knowledge, he has one shotted him. (when he hits him)

He has also been said to be an equal to one side to the triangle, by Death herself. He has been humbeled by Eternity.

Mr Master
This is why we equate FP Galactus to Eternity.

Or you can look it at like World SHIP = Eternity, and he wanted more Energy to be even more powerful against the Beyonder.


http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/8286/doomabsorbsbiggshipki1.th.jpg

"Perhaps the greatest Energy Source in the Universe"

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/930/doomabsorbsbiggship3yh7.th.jpg



Wonder how Doom did this?

Molecule Man wants to attack Doom
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/6913/bze9.th.jpg

NEXT Panel, Doom WAPRS Space and Time, and with Molecule Man goes from Battleworld to a Plane where the Fabric of the Universe is naked in ONE Instant.

"Behold, the Foundations of ETERNITY, the intertwining of Energies which is the basis of ALL THAT IS"

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2672/doomuniversalawarenessiy7.th.jpg

"Of all the mighty in the Universe, You are the mightiest, SAVE for DOOM" (actually Molecule Man was more powerful than Eternity, but he didn't know it yet.)


"What could Beyonder give me that is not already within my power"?

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/4130/d1dp9.th.jpg


Why is anyone so surprised that Galactus's World Ship equals the Eternity?

When an Aspect of Galactus (the Ultimate Nullifier) can RECREATE the 616 Multi-verse.

Mindship
Originally posted by leonidas
not sure why i've heard so much of this recently but it's getting ridiculous. seems people are thinking galactus has been shown to be at full power at some point.

HE. HAS. NOT.

someone brought up doom had his 'full power' after g absorbed his 'world ship', the ship that 'perhaps' was the greatest energy source in the universe. how the hell could the worldship have more energy than the entire universe!!? simple: it couldn't. ergo, that wasn't full power. no one has ever seen ful power g. after absorbing the world ship he was expected to next absorb war world then absorb the sun. he wanted all the power he could get to fight the beyonder. if he was still planning to absorb more AFTER the world ship, how in the hell could he have reached full power?? and doom's claim of 'omniscience' certainly is not enough to justify 'full' power, or his being 'equal to eternity'. compared to his limited mortal percpetions, OF COURSE having galactus's perceptions would seem like omniscience to doom.

full power galactus is a HYPOTHETICAL being. given that the non-canon (and INCREDIBLY CRAPPY) last planet standing had g ready to create a new big bang so he could achieve the 'next evolution of his power' (notice not 'full power', or even the 'LAST stage of his evolution') it seems to stand to reason that we will never SEE a full power g -- at least not in THIS universe.

what is the most powerful version of g we have seen? that's up for debate. when he absorbed the dreaming celestial THAT was impressive, even though he wasn't really in his right mind it shows what he IS capable of. destroying (supposedly) galaxies in battle with tyrant is a strong showing as well. i'm sure he was powerful after the worldship, but not AS powerful as he would have been had he absorbed the planet and its sun. he had some good feats in the first few issues of thanos's series, trying to get things to end his hunger.

i'm sure i've forgotten others.

just please, end the madness of this 'full power galactus' crapola. we don't even know for CERTAIN full-power=eternity. that is pure speculation and IF he ever reaches that level, he may well be shown to be something quite different.

he has never been shown to be at full power, and he probably never will be shown.

sorry this was lengthy.

end rant. big grin

Galactus needs more of his Awe Mojo back. Good job.

AcousticDoc
I have a feeling we will see a Fully powered Galactus by the time Annihilation is over.

Galan777
Originally posted by AcousticDoc
I have a feeling we will see a Fully powered Galactus by the time Annihilation is over. I think Big G will have some impressive feats, but i doubt we will ever see him at FULL power as in equal to Eternity.

leonidas
Originally posted by Mr Master
Or you can look it at like World SHIP = Eternity, and he wanted more Energy to be even more powerful against the Beyonder.

full-power implies he has reached his potential and cannot get 'stronger'. be like pouring more water into an already full cup. fp galactus is alleged to put him AT eternity's level, not 'at eternity's level but if he wants he can keep absorbing energy to go way BEYOND eternity.' regardless of what doom's reactions were to g's power, all we can say with any certainty is that the worldship made him 'really powerful', but not powerful enough that he was beyond the ability to take in even MORE power. as well, we've never been privvy to galactus's perceptions before, but as a powerful cosmic entity his perceptions would/should seem omniscient compared to doom's own perceptions.

PERHAPS that scene depicts the most power galactus WOULD have wielded, but even that is impossible to say.

leonidas
Originally posted by Mindship
Galactus needs more of his Awe Mojo back. Good job.

smile

thanks, bro. and i agree -- whole-heartedly. i'd LOVE to see galactus go off and wipe out a few of the newer cosmic big-wigs, rather than repeatedly be made the whipping boy of any cosmic being who needs to be shown to be powerful. sad

Validus
Originally posted by Galan777
I think Big G will have some impressive feats, but i doubt we will ever see him at FULL power as in equal to Eternity.
Would that be impressive? Eternity's the only cosmic who gets slapped down more than Galactus.

leonidas
Originally posted by Validus
Would that be impressive? Eternity's the only cosmic who gets slapped down more than Galactus.

yes

King Kandy
Originally posted by Validus
Would that be impressive? Eternity's the only cosmic who gets slapped down more than Galactus.
Absolutely true. But at least Galactus doesn't ***** to LT whenever anything goes wrong.

GalacticStorm
Excellent thread Leo. I agree 100% smile

long pig
I've only saw Galactus at high power once, right after he'd eaten a planet and then he visited Earth. He stalemated Agga' then, which is where I place Galactus in power. He's as power as any one of the Vishanti, but not as powerful as them all together.

long pig
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Excellent thread Leo. I agree 100% smile
I 101% agree.

Ha, you limey bastards didn't know we could agree with such gusto, didja?

Juntai
Agreed.
We'll never really see the upper limit of any comic character.

We just go by showings. That's what Galactus is.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by long pig
I 101% agree.

Ha, you limey bastards didn't know we could agree with such gusto, didja?

Watch your mouth sonny!! big grin

Galan777
Everyone thinks Galactus is equal to Eternity when his "full power" was only shown in Secret Wars (which was retconned btw)...

other then that the only evidence we have that Big G and Eternity at least treat each other as equals are these pannels:

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/7398/ge1gz6.th.jpg

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/4671/ge2fo9.th.jpg

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/2025/ge3bi3.th.jpg

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2619/ge4bg1.th.jpg

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/1585/ge5qj0.th.jpg

Though they appear to have a great ammount of respect for each other, this dosent necessarily mean that they are equal in terms of power.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Galan777


Though they appear to have a great ammount of respect for each other, this dosent necessarily mean that they are equal in terms of power.

Very objective. Good for you. Some members would do well to follow your example. wink

leonidas
Originally posted by long pig
I 101% agree.

Ha, you limey bastards didn't know we could agree with such gusto, didja?

lp, it's been too long, m'man! good to know you're lurking . . .

ninja

and galan -- i MOSTLY agree with you. except . . . galactus was NOT at full power in secret wars. after the world ship he STILL needed MORE energy.

full=FULL ie -- he can't get more powerful/is maxxed out at 'full'. makes no sense to suppose he was at full power (equal to eternity) but was then able to absorb MORE power. was he then able to become MORE powerful than eternity??

the only real way to resolve the issue to to say that the worldship made him powerful, but was not enough to get him to full power. i doubt very highly that absorbing war world and its sun would have had him at full either.

full is hypothetical and remains that way.

Galan777
Originally posted by leonidas
and galan -- i MOSTLY agree with you. except . . . galactus was NOT at full power in secret wars. after the world ship he STILL needed MORE energy.

full=FULL ie -- he can't get more powerful/is maxxed out at 'full'. makes no sense to suppose he was at full power (equal to eternity) but was then able to absorb MORE power. was he then able to become MORE powerful than eternity?? Doom is the one that absorbed Big G's power/ship in Secret Wars, but it dosent matter either way, because it was all retconned...... The only thing that came out of Secret Wars was Spidey's black suit, nothing more.

All we really have to go on as far as Galactus being "equal" to Eternity are the scans I posted.....

Which only shows that the 2 of them respect each other. It dosent show that their powers' are equal by any means

leonidas
i think there was another connection established between g and eternity, but i can't recall off-hand where. it was NOT in a direct interaction between g and eternity, but was hinted at by other characters in a conversation.

nothing conclusive exists to say say that g WILL equal eternity though -- on that score you are absolutely correct. it's all speculation -- even by the characters involved. it is equally feasible that in the end he may NOT equal eternity, or may EXCEED him.

Turok16
You my friend are obviously very smart. Agreed completely.

Mr Master
The reason why Eternity shows Galactus respect is because without Galactus, Eternity would DIE.

And that's it.

Mr Master
Originally posted by leonidas
and galan -- i MOSTLY agree with you. except . . . galactus was NOT at full power in secret wars. after the world ship he STILL needed MORE energy.

full=FULL ie -- he can't get more powerful/is maxxed out at 'full'. makes no sense to suppose he was at full power (equal to eternity) but was then able to absorb MORE power. was he then able to become MORE powerful than eternity??

the only real way to resolve the issue to to say that the worldship made him powerful, but was not enough to get him to full power. i doubt very highly that absorbing war world and its sun would have had him at full either.

That was Reed Richards speculating he would do that, in the issue the WRITERS NEVER said he NEEDED to or even COULD absorb more.

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/6698/gqp1.th.jpg

And when Doom had the Power, Doom was ONE with ETERNITY and he was able to strip the Fabric of the Universe like child's play (without the Sun or Battleworld)

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2672/doomuniversalawarenessiy7.th.jpg


So perhaps it wasn't ALL he could absorb, but,

Galactus's Ship = Eternity

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by Mr Master
That was Reed Richards speculating he would do that, in the issue the WRITERS NEVER said he NEEDED to or even COULD absorb more.

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/6698/gqp1.th.jpg

And when Doom had the Power, Doom was ONE with ETERNITY and he was able to strip the Fabric of the Universe like child's play (without the Sun or Battleworld)

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2672/doomuniversalawarenessiy7.th.jpg


So perhaps it wasn't ALL he could absorb, but,

Galactus's Ship = Eternity
Agreed.
The foundations of Eternity.

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Agreed.
The foundations of Eternity.
But of course, why make full power Galactus matches and not Eternity?
It's like making: Infinity versus someone.

leonidas
Originally posted by Mr Master
That was Reed Richards speculating he would do that, in the issue the WRITERS NEVER said he NEEDED to or even COULD absorb more.

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/6698/gqp1.th.jpg

And when Doom had the Power, Doom was ONE with ETERNITY and he was able to strip the Fabric of the Universe like child's play (without the Sun or Battleworld)

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2672/doomuniversalawarenessiy7.th.jpg


So perhaps it wasn't ALL he could absorb, but,

Galactus's Ship = Eternity

sorry, not buying it. where exactly does it say doom was "ONE with ETERNITY"? confused

you're making an unfounded leap. just because doom had power to SHOW mm the intricacies of the universe, to look into various levels of the universe, absolutely does NOT equate to him to eternity. strange can look into different dimensions and see similar things. galactus did something similar when he was regaining the infinity gems in the thanos series. he was peeling back layers of 'reality' to get the gems, opening interdimensional aperatures. even in IG he has traversing various levels of eternity. why is showing a layer to mm so impressive to you?

in fact, the fallacy of doom's 'omnipotence' is made apparent when he states he is mightier than mm. doom wouldn't even have been as powerful as galactus would have been had galactus KEPT the power.

clearly worldship+doom<worldship+galactus

the world ship made him tough, but not equal to eternity.

Mr Master
Originally posted by leonidas
sorry, not buying it.

I never expected you to, this is for anyone who enters into this thread.


Originally posted by leonidas
where exactly does it say doom was "ONE with ETERNITY"?

If you can't tell from that scan what Doom is, I won't go any further into it.

As you wish.


Originally posted by leonidas
you're making an unfounded leap. just because doom had power to SHOW mm the intricacies of the universe, to look into various levels of the universe,

This is an unfounded leap.

He isn't showing him different levels of Eternity.

He STRIPPED the Fabric of the Universe.


Originally posted by leonidas
strange can look into different dimensions and see similar things.

Please do show me when Strange has STRIPPED the Fabric of the Universe bare.

Also show me when Strange has done this:

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/2152/doomfullgalactusrr7.th.jpg

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/4957/doomfullgalactus1cx6.th.jpg

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/9328/doomfullgalactus2db9.th.jpg


Originally posted by leonidas
galactus did something similar when he was regaining the infinity gems in the thanos series. he was peeling back layers of 'reality' to get the gems,

Again, show me where Galactus STRIPPED the Fabric of the Universe.


Originally posted by leonidas
opening interdimensional aperatures. even in IG he has traversing various levels of eternity. why is showing a layer to mm so impressive to you?

You equate travelling past different Universes in order to reach Magus's lair to UNFOLDING the very FABRIC of the Universe.

ok.


Originally posted by leonidas
in fact, the fallacy of doom's 'omnipotence' is made apparent when he states he is mightier than mm.

He was mightier than him,

Molecule Man had imposed mental blocks on himself limiting his ability.

It was Doom, in that same issue that unleashed MM full potential.


Originally posted by leonidas
clearly worldship+doom<worldship+galactus

"clearly"?

You mean in your opinion.

Doom absorbed Galactus's Power plus his SHIP'S Energy.

How Galactus would have had more power, I can't imagine.

leonidas
Originally posted by Mr Master
And when Doom had the Power, Doom was ONE with ETERNITY and he was able to strip the Fabric of the Universe like child's play (without the Sun or Battleworld)

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2672/doomuniversalawarenessiy7.th.jpg


So perhaps it wasn't ALL he could absorb, but,

Galactus's Ship = Eternity

sad

uh, mm, not sure how to say this without . . . making you look . . . well . . . not very good, but that scan you been passing around, the one with mm and doom in it you used to tell everyone that doom with galactus's powers=eternity is . . . a "tiny" bit misleading.

that above scan is actually from secret wars #11. that scan of yours shows doom while he is wielding the BEYONDER'S power!!!

now i'll assume that was an oversight, rather than a deliberate attempt at misleading people, and go on to your reply to my post knowing that any conclusions you've drawn from that scan are obviously null and void.

Originally posted by Mr Master
This is an unfounded leap.

He isn't showing him different levels of Eternity.

He STRIPPED the Fabric of the Universe.

what exactly does that mean to you? 'stripped the fabric of the universe' means what exactly? and WHERE exactly did you see this phrase? regardless, you are caught up in terminology. i showed scans once from the defenders mini that tells us that OUR (not multi) eternity is made up of MANY 'realities' and 'universes'. the watcher peels back layers of reality to look into different universes -- he looks BEYOND the fabric of eternity. i'm very unclear where you are getting the notion that just because he can peel back layers/fabric of the universe that he is . . . eternity? seriously, not picking a fight, i just really don't get that. in the scan where doom has GALACTUS'S power he says that he can sense everything around him -- not everything in the UNIVERSE. his senses expand to the planet, no where does it go beyond that.



you're stuck again on terminology, so obviously i can't show a scan that says 'strange stripped the fabric of the universe'. but i don't understand why i would need to. doom with g's power could apparently warp reality in the area around him. given that he could raise the dead with ss's power cosmic and that the ss has shown the ability to GLOBALLY affect things on a planetary scale, that . . . isn't that impressive. erm



again with the quote, but again . . . i don't get why you're so hung up on it. it seems to be the sole reason why you're equating doom and eternity. knowing now that doom had beyonder's power in the scene with mm, does that mean you're willing to drop this notion of a full-power galactus?



how did they GET to the different levels they traveled through? they must have . . . peeled away/stripped/opened holes in the universe.



obviously a noon-issue because he had beyonder's power, not galactus's.



touche, however:



is speculatory, as i admit mine is. galactus lived, so not ALL his energy was pulled from him, and even if he had only a fragment left he would STILL be far greater than just doom.



easy -- he gets the beyonder's power too. wink

hopefully, given the inappropriateness of that molecule man scan, we can lay this issue to rest. smile

Mr Master
Originally posted by leonidas
that above scan is actually from secret wars #11. that scan of yours shows doom while he is wielding the BEYONDER'S power!!!

No biggi,

an honest mistake in a mass overload of cropped scans I have.

Whether I look good or not means not little, but nothing actually.

I always said I have been wrong and will continue to be wrong, as you have been before too. (I'm not perfect)

Some cats around here always overlook when they're proven wrong, not me though, I admit it like a man.


I went back, flipped pages and noticed I was wrong about that ONE Scan, I won't try to yip yap my way out of it, or overlook it like others do when I'm the one doing the disproven.


On the other hand, isn't it intersting that you thought that Scan didn't mean much towards the idea that FP Galactus = Eternity, now we realize that's Doom with the Beyonder's Power, which means what Doom did was FAR beyond the scope of all the comparisons you match him with.


So I was wrong, but you were wrong in comparing that Feat in the Scan with Galactus, Strange and whoever else you threw into the mix. cool

leonidas
Originally posted by Mr Master
No biggi,

an honest mistake in a mass overload of cropped scans I have.

Whether I look good or not means not little, but nothing actually.

I always said I have been wrong and will continue to be wrong, as you have been before too. (I'm not perfect)

Some cats around here always overlook when they're proven wrong, not me though, I admit it like a man.


I went back, flipped pages and noticed I was wrong about that ONE Scan, I won't try to yip yap my way out of it, or overlook it like others do when I'm the one doing the disproven.


On the other hand, isn't it intersting that you thought that Scan didn't mean much towards the idea that FP Galactus = Eternity, now we realize that's Doom with the Beyonder's Power, which means what Doom did was FAR beyond the scope of all the comparisons you match him with.


So I was wrong, but you were wrong in comparing that Feat in the Scan with Galactus, Strange and whoever else you threw into the mix. cool

glad you owned the error. cool

but . . . regardless of who did it, i still don't see what he did as being that great (after all we DID confuse it with a galactus level feat . . .) for all the reasons i mentioned. being the beyonder's power i suppose it's reasonable to say he is showing him layers galactus (perhaps even eternity) could not, but . . . with the beyonder's power he shows him that? erm meh, maybe that's the foundation of multi-eternity. don't matter much. just glad the issue is resolved.

with a minimum of bloodshed. smile

Mr Master
Originally posted by leonidas
glad you owned the error. cool

I've made them before.

Remember the time when I thought Death was unfased by the IG, you wisely pointed out that Thanos wasn't trying to hurt her.

She did however, shield Starfox and a rotting Nebula.

Originally posted by leonidas
meh, maybe that's the foundation of multi-eternity. don't matter much. just glad the issue is resolved.

You know, I think that was the Multi-verse, just because the name Multi-Eternity wasn't used doesn't change the possibility.


I'll give you an example:

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/4171/beyondertalkingtodeathxu1.th.jpg

"I could rend this Universe from end to end with a gesture"

In the same paragraph he also say's, " I could lay ALL Eternity at your feet"

I believe he's implying the Multi-verse when he says " ALL Eternity"


Originally posted by leonidas
with a minimum of bloodshed. smile

smile

leonidas
cool. let's leave it at that and call it problem solved and case closed.

smile

King Kandy
I really wanted to point that out, but I was to much of a lazy ass.

leonidas
Originally posted by King Kandy
I really wanted to point that out, but I was to much of a lazy ass.

yah, yah . . .

well, next time get off your lazy ass! i wouldn't mind a hand once in a while!


big grin

King Kandy
I tried to debunct that ludicris "Multi-Eternity" scan he was shoving...

leonidas
not sure what scan you're talking about.

King Kandy
The one where Warlock meets "Multi-Eternity". How did Mr.M logicaly justify that this wasn't plain Eternity? Because he acted like he was pissed at Warlock.

I own the issue. It's Bull. Nothing that would make it be "Multi-Eternity".

Roldz
Originally posted by King Kandy
The one where Warlock meets "Multi-Eternity". How did Mr.M logicaly justify that this wasn't plain Eternity? Because he acted like he was pissed at Warlock.

I own the issue. It's Bull. Nothing that would make it be "Multi-Eternity".
It actually says Multi-Eternity on Panel... As far as i can recall it..

leonidas
Originally posted by King Kandy
The one where Warlock meets "Multi-Eternity". How did Mr.M logicaly justify that this wasn't plain Eternity? Because he acted like he was pissed at Warlock.

I own the issue. It's Bull. Nothing that would make it be "Multi-Eternity".

i have the issue, but don't recall exactly. i'd need to look it up, or someone would need to -repost the scan . . . whistle

Mr Master
Originally posted by King Kandy
The one where Warlock meets "Multi-Eternity". How did Mr.M logicaly justify that this wasn't plain Eternity? Because he acted like he was pissed at Warlock.

My logic stems these FACTS...

Eternity and Infinity (the Single Universe) are the ASPECTS of Multi-Eternity, the Multi-verse

And this is what they look like when they UNITE:

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9416/21616484041cz7.th.jpg
"The ASPECT of ALL There Is".....


NOW...


When Warlock meets the Multi-verse for the first time, this is what they look like UNITED

"An ASTRAL UNION of ALL, I NEVER DREAMT"
http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/1013/w3se5.th.jpghttp://img161.imageshack.us/img161/1540/w4rg7.th.jpg
"You interrupt MORTAL, Speak your piece quickly and BE GONE"

QUITE DIFFERENT, wouldn't you say?


"We cannot be overly Preoccupied by ANY ONE ASPECT of OUR Reality"
http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/1623/multiverse2co.th.jpg
"WE are ALL, NO ONE PART of the WHOLE is absolutely indispensable"


1. "By ANY ONE ASPECT of their Reality"

ONE of their ASPECTS is ONE Universe,


2. "We are ALL"

and WHAT?

And "NO ONE PART of the WHOLE is indispensible"


"the Embodiment of ACTUALITY, WE Exist in MYRIAD Fashions"
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/5109/multiverse28yb.th.jpg
"Do NOT pester US, UNLIKE OURSELVES, OUR patience is not without limits"


"Embodiment of ACTUALITY"

Thanos used that term for the Multi-verse he absorbed.

"We EXIST in MYRIAD Fashions"

"MYRIAD" means a countless or extremely great number.

Countless Universes in a Multi-verse.

"UNLIKE OURSELVES our patience is not without limits"

OURSELVES?

WHO is OURSELVES that has more patience than them?


The relationship between Warlock & Eternity, they know each other well, even bicker at each other like children sometimes.

Warlock & Eternity(the single universe)know each other well
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/9330/eternityaspectwarlock8jz.th.jpg

As you can see..they treat each other with confidence
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/204/eternityaspectwarlock24oy.th.jpg

This is called the Eternal Orb...Eternity (single universe) gave it to Warlock to contact him when the universe is in danger
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/935/eternityaspectisall14jf.th.jpg


When Warlock found the Multi-verse, he used the ORB but it opened a doorway he had never seen before, and it took him to a place he had never been before:
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/5025/warlockcontactsthemultiverse3i.th.jpg

"The BUILDING BLOCKS of Reality"
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6823/w1uo8.th.jpg

Then Warlock found the Mullti-verse in the above scans.


Leon, be a pal and explain it to him.


Originally posted by King Kandy
I own the issue. It's Bull.

Not being able to comprehend something, doesn't make it incorrect.


Originally posted by King Kandy
Nothing that would make it be "Multi-Eternity".

Leon will explain it to you.

leonidas
Originally posted by Mr Master
Leon will explain it to you.

laughing out loud

ahh, THAT issue . . .

now, lord knows mr m and i don't see eye-to-eye on everything -- okay, MOST things ( big grin ) -- but in this case kk, i agree with his interpretation. i remember having a similar interpretation when i read the book for the first time. it was the -- "We cannot be overly Preoccupied by ANY ONE ASPECT of OUR Reality" that sort of implied this was a being beyond the 'standard' version of eternity.

thedude1948
Originally posted by leonidas
laughing out loud

ahh, THAT issue . . .

now, lord knows mr m and i don't see eye-to-eye on everything -- okay, MOST things ( big grin ) -- but in this case kk, i agree with his interpretation. i remember having a similar interpretation when i read the book for the first time. it was the -- "We cannot be overly Preoccupied by ANY ONE ASPECT of OUR Reality" that sort of implied this was a being beyond the 'standard' version of eternity.

They were talking about Goddess at the time and it is implied that the "aspect" was Goddess. "No one part of the whole is absolutely indispensible.....Not even you, Adam Warlock." If this aspect they were referring to is a whole universe or "Single Eternity" why would they call Adam Warlock an aspect or "part of the whole" also? he isnt anymore of an "aspect" than Goddess is. You are right it wasnt the Standard version of Eternity it was Eternity and Infinity melded as one.

leonidas
hmm, i'm not following your reasoning completely. you mean they were referencing the goddess as an 'aspect' of warlock? that's . . . a bit convoluted for my liking. it's my thinking that they were saying that as vital a role as adam has played in a cosmic sense, even HIS wishes aren't enough to get things done in this case.

then too, there are these bits:

"We EXIST in MYRIAD Fashions"

and

"UNLIKE OURSELVES our patience is not without limits"

who is 'ourselves' and all these 'others' if not counterparts of these 'larger' entities? it is obvious that this was a combination of infinity and eternity, but we've seen them before this. are you saying the only difference this time is that they are together? weren't they shown together in a quasar arc at some point?

thedude1948
What I mean is in this sentence "We cannot be overly Preoccupied by ANY ONE ASPECT of OUR Reality." the "ONE ASPECT" refers to Goddess, and Goddess is just one aspect of Eternity and Infinity's reality, just like Adam Warlock is.

Originally posted by leonidas
it's my thinking that they were saying that as vital a role as adam has played in a cosmic sense, even HIS wishes aren't enough to get things done in this case.
Yeah I agree, what I was trying to say is that Adam Warlock is just another aspect of reality just like Goddess is an aspect of reality.

I do think when they are referring to themselves as "our" or "ourselves", it is just Eternity and Infinity speaking as one talking about themselves. I dont think Eternity is out of character either since Warlock asked Eternity about Goddess before and he said that she held no significance to him.

leonidas
Originally posted by thedude1948
What I mean is in this sentence "We cannot be overly Preoccupied by ANY ONE ASPECT of OUR Reality." the "ONE ASPECT" refers to Goddess, and Goddess is just one aspect of Eternity and Infinity's reality, just like Adam Warlock is.


Yeah I agree, what I was trying to say is that Adam Warlock is just another aspect of reality just like Goddess is an aspect of reality.

I do think when they are referring to themselves as "our" or "ourselves", it is just Eternity and Infinity speaking as one talking about themselves. I dont think Eternity is out of character either since Warlock asked Eternity about Goddess before and he said that she held no significance to him.

the goddess is an aspect of warlock, though, not eternity or reality. i see where you're coming from with the interpretation, but it seems to me there WAS a difference in the interaction between warlock and this being, and warlock and eternity. you're likely thinking it's because in this case eternity is coupled with infinity, correct? but how do you reconcile the 'myriad fashions' they say they exist in?

Mr Master
Originally posted by leonidas
but how do you reconcile the 'myriad fashions' they say they exist in?

He can't.

I had this debate with the dude a while ago, I see he never got it.


For the record:


The Goddess is an Aspect of Adam Warlock

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/618/as2id3.th.jpg

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6074/asah5.th.jpg

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/2386/as3fz6.th.jpg

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/3681/gnw6.th.jpg


But if anyone wants to dream that the Goddess is an Aspect of the Universe, go right ahead.

thedude1948
I know Goddess is the good side of Adam Warlock I was never arguing that. Eternity is the embodiment of the universe right? (Everything that is in the universe is a part of him), and Goddess and Infinity Crusade took place in the Universe so it is an "aspect of reality" if it wasnt that would mean Goddess and Infinity Crusade existed outside of the Universe (which it didnt).

"No One part of the whole is absolutely indispensible.... Not even you Adam Warlock."
If that is Multi-Eternity/Infinity what does this mean? is Adam Warlock a part of Multi-Eternity?

Mr Master
Originally posted by thedude1948
I know Goddess is the good side of Adam Warlock I was never arguing that.

The Goddess is the good ASPECT of Adam Warlock.


Originally posted by thedude1948
"No One part of the whole is absolutely indispensible.... Not even you Adam Warlock."

This is what's confusing you I see.

When the Multi-verse tells Warlock, "Not even you Warlock" it's telling Warlock he's not indespensible just LIKE an ASPECT of themselves isn't either.

King Kandy
No, they mean Warlock is an aspect. Anything in the universe is an aspect of the universe.

Warlock is an aspect, or a certain view or facet of something. If he is part of the universe, then he is a facet of the universe, and thus an aspect. The Godess is an aspect, or facet of him, but is also part, or an aspect, of the universe. agreed?

Mr Master
Originally posted by King Kandy
No, they mean Warlock is an aspect. Anything in the universe is an aspect of the universe.

Warlock is an aspect, or a certain view or facet of something. If he is part of the universe, then he is a facet of the universe, and thus an aspect. The Godess is an aspect, or facet of him, but is also part, or an aspect, of the universe.

Well, I can see this is going nowhere.

As you wish.


Originally posted by King Kandy
agreed?

NO!

thedude1948
Originally posted by King Kandy
agreed? Okay.... Fine I agree with your take of it. wink

King Kandy
Originally posted by Mr Master
Well, I can see this is going nowhere.

As you wish.




NO!
I think my respect for you just went down a notch. You can't grasp such simple concepts as the definition of "Aspect".

GalacticStorm
Forget all of the other unrelated Eternity scans from other titles which hold no relevance to this one.

Here the subject matter is the GODDESS.

Adam approaches Eternity/Infinity about her and they say she is of no concern to them basically and they dismiss him.

Puzzled, Adam concludes that they were aware of her existence and questions why then did they not inform him of her existence if they knew all along.

E/I cuts him off thereby finishing the question saying no they saw no reason to inform Adam about the Goddess or concern themselves over her.

E/I continues by saying they basically preside over the space/time continuum and they cannot be overly worried by any one aspect of that reality. (i.e the Goddess)

This is Eternity and Infinity talking in unison here (they are after all two sides of the same coin) but here as is often the case on panel they are represented as two entities. Hence the use of "OURSELVES"


To prove they mean the Goddess when they say "aspect" in this conversation, Adams very next line basically shows his surprise that that E/I are indifferent to the major threat (from his perspective) that the Goddess poses " You are not telling me the Goddess' intentions are benign are you?"

That proves conclusively that by aspect they mean Goddess. That is the matter Adam brought to E/I and their replies are in accordance with topic. As are Adams replies to their replies lol. Its all about the Goddess.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by King Kandy
I think my respect for you just went down a notch. You can't grasp such simple concepts as the definition of "Aspect".

He knows, hes not stupid, just very very stubborn and unwilling to even consider the notion that his interpretation is wrong. He does after all choose to interpret things in a way beneficial to his Pro Beyonder/Anti Phoenix campaign. big grin

GalacticStorm
As with everything that is OF the universe, the Goddess is an aspect of Eternity because he embodies everything within a reality.

In the same way even though a star is an aspect of Eternity, as Eternity is an aspect of Multi-Eternity, that star would just as much be a part of Multi-Eternitys being. An aspect smile

V for Valentine
Oh lord, time for the mind-boggling arguements that I end up not actually understanding and questioning why they are needed because the beings in question are so powerful it doesnt really matter confused Just confused myself, but eh smile Welcome back GS

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by V for Valentine
Welcome back GS

Thank u. I cant come on as regularly as i used to, due to work commitments, but i'll never stray too far. smile

leonidas
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As with everything that is OF the universe, the Goddess is an aspect of Eternity because he embodies everything within a reality.

In the same way even though a star is an aspect of Eternity, as Eternity is an aspect of Multi-Eternity, that star would just as much be a part of Multi-Eternitys being. An aspect smile

laughing out loud

masters AND i agreeing AGAINST you?? surely the end is upon us all!

laughing

guess i'll actually have to go back and check that issue. chronicles or watch? anyone recall the issue # off-hand? big grin

King Kandy
Originally posted by leonidas
laughing out loud

masters AND i agreeing AGAINST you?? surely the end is upon us all!

laughing

guess i'll actually have to go back and check that issue. chronicles or watch? anyone recall the issue # off-hand? big grin
I think it was either chronicals #1 or #2....

King Kandy
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
He knows, hes not stupid, just very very stubborn and unwilling to even consider the notion that his interpretation is wrong. He does after all choose to interpret things in a way beneficial to his Pro Beyonder/Anti Phoenix campaign. big grin
He admited he was wrong about some stuff just a few pages back...

But yeah, sometimes he is stubborn. I just don't think as much as you're atributing to him.

leonidas
Originally posted by King Kandy
I think it was either chronicals #1 or #2....

actually, it was issue #3, and it seems i owe you an apology kk -- and by extension, thedude. i just re-read that issue and it is amazing what re-reading and full context will cause you to recall!! (i should know better than to trust my rapidly faltering memory! sad )

in any event, i think you and the dude are quite correct. there is no real evidence IN THAT ISSUE that this was multi-eternity. i'd forgotten how things had begun in that issue and this is the second time in as many days where i failed to read all the scans presented because i thought i already KNEW what the scans were. frusty

before warlock finds the 'astral union moebius strip' he quite clearly states he was searching for eternity with the orb. i saw that when i re-read the issue, then looked back and noticed that mrm had even included that scan, just not in the order in which it was presented in the book.

i am a twit. sad

bottom-line is i seem to have f'd up the interpretation on account of my laziness. why WOULD the orb have opened a 'new door' and why would multi-eternity have allowed adam to find him if he/it didn't want to be disturbed in the first place? why bring him there if only to dismiss him so shortly? mrm presented all the scans for me to figure it out, i just didn't do so.

i believe the aspect eternity referred to WAS warlock, exactly as kk and dude said. and yes, gs, you too. big grin

meh, when 3 people's opinions whom i respect all say the same thing, i like to double check. sorry to reneg on you mrm, but upon rechecking i gotta say i was wrong. live and learn. erm

but damn, i f'n HATE being wrong . . .

leonidas
that said, i really don't know what they meant when they said they'd existed in myriad fashions. that line is puzzling to me. oi.

and now i think i'll take a brief vacation from the kmc . . .

King Kandy
Scince all things in the universe are facets of them, all beings are a "Form" of Eternity.

Mr Master
Originally posted by leonidas
sorry to reneg on you mrm, but upon rechecking i gotta say i was wrong. live and learn.

So, since Eternity and Infinity are,

"The ASPECT of ALL There Is".....

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9416/21616484041cz7.th.jpg


I suppose the puny Goddess is their equal, since she is it's Aspect too laughing

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Mr Master
So, since Eternity and Infinity are,

"The ASPECT of ALL There Is".....

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9416/21616484041cz7.th.jpg


I suppose the puny Goddess is their equal, since she is it's Aspect too laughing

Not really, cos theyre saying they are but an aspect of all that is, (either saying they are just MBodys of the universe or referring to them just being a part of a Multi-Eternity), the Goddess however is just an aspect of THEM. Thats totally different im afraid MM sad

Galan777
So whats this argument?

That Eternity isnt really the universe?

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Galan777
So whats this argument?

That Eternity isnt really the universe?

Nope. Whether that scene features Eternity and Infinity or some multiversal E/I.

Read the last two pages, it was quite a good debate.

leonidas
Originally posted by Mr Master
So, since Eternity and Infinity are,

"The ASPECT of ALL There Is".....

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9416/21616484041cz7.th.jpg


I suppose the puny Goddess is their equal, since she is it's Aspect too laughing

i said a long time ago goddess=warlock. but as was pointed out, warlock=eternity (in part, because warlock is OF the universe, hence an aspect OF the universe.)

more to the point: why are you using a scan from a book that has no relevence to the book we were discussing? just because they assumed a different shape (i'd say they could take on an infinity of shapes) why does that necessitate that they are different beings?

taking your scans out of context (as i did, and i've no one to blame but myself) i focused on the discussion scan alone. that was an error. you are trying to tie together too many disparate events and making loose connections BETWEEN books that do not exist WITHIN books.

it clearly says warlock is searching out eternity. because of this, he FINDS eternity, only this time when he finds him, eternity is in bed (so-to-speak) with infinity. that could explain both the way eternity spoke (he was now himself AND infinity) to adam AND the reason why the place looked different.

now the question i have is: is eternity+infinity>eternity alone? that would be seemingly at odds with eternity being the sun total of the universe. i thought a read somewhere that infinity is the temporal aspect, and eternity the spatial aspect, but that's not very satisfying as eternity has been repeatedly depicted as being the 'total' of the universe. if he is NOT, did thanos NOT gain control of ALL the universe? after all he supplanted only eternity, not infinity.

anyway, the bottom line is nothing in the book we are discussing supports a vision of multi-eternity. erm the only way you yourself can come to such a speculatory conclusion is by drawing connections from a number of sources NOT related to the book in question.

King Kandy
Originally posted by leonidas
i said a long time ago goddess=warlock. but as was pointed out, warlock=eternity (in part, because warlock is OF the universe, hence an aspect OF the universe.)

more to the point: why are you using a scan from a book that has no relevence to the book we were discussing? just because they assumed a different shape (i'd say they could take on an infinity of shapes) why does that necessitate that they are different beings?

taking your scans out of context (as i did, and i've no one to blame but myself) i focused on the discussion scan alone. that was an error. you are trying to tie together too many disparate events and making loose connections BETWEEN books that do not exist WITHIN books.

it clearly says warlock is searching out eternity. because of this, he FINDS eternity, only this time when he finds him, eternity is in bed (so-to-speak) with infinity. that could explain both the way eternity spoke (he was now himself AND infinity) to adam AND the reason why the place looked different.

now the question i have is: is eternity+infinity>eternity alone? that would be seemingly at odds with eternity being the sun total of the universe. i thought a read somewhere that infinity is the temporal aspect, and eternity the spatial aspect, but that's not very satisfying as eternity has been repeatedly depicted as being the 'total' of the universe. if he is NOT, did thanos NOT gain control of ALL the universe? after all he supplanted only eternity, not infinity.

anyway, the bottom line is nothing in the book we are discussing supports a vision of multi-eternity. erm the only way you yourself can come to such a speculatory conclusion is by drawing connections from a number of sources NOT related to the book in question.

As was explained in Infinity Wars, Infinity and Eternity were essentialy the same entity. When Magus mezmorized Eternity, he bound Infinity as well, and thus Gamora saw TWO beings when she freed Eternity.


"I suppose the puny Goddess is their equal, since she is it's Aspect too"

That is deeply flawed logic. Your streching to say that all aspects HAVE to be equal.

Heres an example:

There is a prism, that leans inward, thus one side is larger then the other. Both sides are aspects, but one is larger (Or in this case, more powerful.) then the other, so aspects aren't necesarily equal.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Mr Master
So, since Eternity and Infinity are,

"The ASPECT of ALL There Is".....

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9416/21616484041cz7.th.jpg


I suppose the puny Goddess is their equal, since she is it's Aspect too laughing
I'm really not trying to be a smartass when I say this, but at the time, the Goddess was MORE than universal Eternity's equal, because she had the cosmic egg.

Like I said, I'm not trying to be a smartass(I have no real opinion of whether it was Universal or Multiversal Eternity), I'm just pointing out an oversite.

leonidas
Originally posted by King Kandy
As was explained in Infinity Wars, Infinity and Eternity were essentialy the same entity. When Magus mezmorized Eternity, he bound Infinity as well, and thus Gamora saw TWO beings when she freed Eternity.


"I suppose the puny Goddess is their equal, since she is it's Aspect too"

That is deeply flawed logic. Your streching to say that all aspects HAVE to be equal.

Heres an example:

There is a prism, that leans inward, thus one side is larger then the other. Both sides are aspects, but one is larger (Or in this case, more powerful.) then the other, so aspects aren't necesarily equal.

confused

by "equal" i was saying that warlock and the goddess were part of (equal to) the same aspect. ie -- the goddess is part of warlock. warlock in turn is a part of eternity. of course they are not "equal" in terms of power nor did i state they HAD to be equals.

about the relationship between eternity and infinity: eternity has been overthrown a couple times with no mention of infinity. they have been shown to operate independently and infinity's opposite was initially shown to be oblivion. in fact, WHILE thanos had the IG, maelstrom (hyperstorm) was shown to be OUTSIDE thanos's power (and by extension eternity's??), and infinity was still operating as an opponent to oblivion whose agent hyperstorm was. even thanos was powerless to stop oblivion (and what was going to be the end of the universe) and maelstrom, but infinity and her champion quasar DID what even he could not.

i'm sure eternity and infinity must be inter-twined, but exactly how is still something of a question (at least to my mind, as that gamora scene seems to me to be the exception, as opposed to the rule for them) unless there has been some recent evidence.

King Kandy
I was quoting mister Master about the "Equal Entity" bit.

leonidas
doh

i think . . .? confused

King Kandy
Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm really not trying to be a smartass when I say this, but at the time, the Goddess was MORE than universal Eternity's equal, because she had the cosmic egg.

Like I said, I'm not trying to be a smartass(I have no real opinion of whether it was Universal or Multiversal Eternity), I'm just pointing out an oversite.
That is a good point... the cosmic egg was powerful.

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