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Anything goes, Kas'im is using a double bladed saber but can switch to single whenever he wishes.

Niether can use any insta-kill force

This is Rots Windu, btw.

Kas'Im wins. He has mastered the wielding of the single saber, dual sabers and the saber staff, and has mastered all 7 forms. His reflexes were noted as being exceptional as well, and he was in prime physical condition.

But Mace Windu has shatterpoint, which could prove to be the difference..

And Vaapad which Kas'Im has never heard of or seen. Mace is also in damn good physical condition.

The only edge over Kas'Im I would give Mace would be his Shatterpoint ability (which imo is way overrated), his Vaapad which Kas'Im is unfamiliar with, and possibly physical strength (enhanced via the force).

I still think Kas'Im is just too damn good, the perfect warrior.

no, mace windu is far better than he is, firstly he doesnt know what vaapad is, secondly there is shatterpoint, kasim goes down after a long fight.

and no kasim doesnt know trakata i believe

Mace Windu. Kas'Im is good, but not good as Windu.

Again it's a tough fight. Mace DOES have Vappad and shatterpoint, but Kas'im DID master ALL 7 forms of lightsaber combat, like Yoda. I would give it to him based on that and the quotes of him being the best in the Sith order and possibly ever.

So what? Cin Drallig mastered all forms, and he got his ass handed to by Skywalker. I am not saying Kas'Im is equal to Drallig, I know he's better but even though he was said to be the best, so is Windu. I mean, besides Yoda, he's the best in PT Jedi Order. And him and Yoda are bothr really close as well.

With Vapaad, and Shatterpoint, both with Kas'Im doesn't expect, he'll lose.

It'll be a bit close, but Kas'Im loses. I rank the Twi'lek as maybe being on par with Obi-Wan Kenobi as in terms of dueling.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
So what? Cin Drallig mastered all forms, and he got his ass handed to by Skywalker. I am not saying Kas'Im is equal to Drallig, I know he's better but even though he was said to be the best, so is Windu. I mean, besides Yoda, he's the best in PT Jedi Order. And him and Yoda are bothr really close as well.

With Vapaad, and Shatterpoint, both with Kas'Im doesn't expect, he'll lose.

It'll be a bit close, but Kas'Im loses. I rank the Twi'lek as maybe being on par with Obi-Wan Kenobi as in terms of dueling.

So Kas'im who mastered every form, is on par with Obiwan? You're going to have to provide a convincing argument for that situation. You're basically saying that Obi wan>New Sith Order in terms of dueling, and that's very innacurate.. I would put Kas'im on par with Yoda.

Obi Wan Kenobi:

- The GREATEST Practicioner of Soresu ever. Said to have the greatest defense among a Jedi


Kas'Im:

- The Battlemaster of the New Sith Order and said to be the greatest lightsaber user in the Order.



Whether Kas'Im is powerful or not, do you believe he can break through the barriers of Kenobi?

And Kas'Im is DEFINATELY NOT on par with Yoda. Yoda is several times faster and the greatest user of Ataru (along with Sidous I guess). There is no way Kas'Im can defeat him.

Kas'Im is getting overrated these days. Yes, I know he is powerful. But people keep saying "Oh Kas'im is the BEST. He can take out Mace Windu (who's a lightsaber prodigy and a master of Vapaad) and is on par with Yoda, etc etc. " It's ridiculous.

I mean, fine I can accept he can beat Kenobi if there is solid proof, but there's no way he's better than Anakin, Dooku, Mace, Yoda, and Sidious.

Hmm. Kas'Im would prove to be a deadly opponent in lightsaber combat, however, Mace is a master of Vaapad, a form that Kas'Im is completely clueless about - and which works well against Dark Side users - by channeling their darkness into Mace's advantage.

Then, factor in Mace's Shatterpoint ability and his superior Force powers, and I'd guess that Kas'Im bites the big one. Not without a bit of a fight, of course.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Obi Wan Kenobi:

- The GREATEST Practicioner of Soresu ever. Said to have the greatest defense among a Jedi
Please show me what source(if any), consider Obiwan the GREATEST practioner of Soresu ever, because I call bullshit.


And MAYBE ever..




Dooku did, and I'd argue that Kas'im is superior to Dooku in saber combat.


I don't know where it's stated that Sidious is a "Great user of ataru". And I don't see why Kas'im CANT be on par with Yoda, considering they were both the greatest of their orders..


How is Kas'im overrated exactly? Your argument is that Mace Windu wins BECAUSE he has Vaapad and shatterpoint. Well in that case, he would pwn all no? But you failed to mention that his shatterpoint ability and Vaapad form aren't good enough to take on Yoda himself, so I don't believe those two traits of Mace Windu are prerequisites for guaranteed victory.


This is simply your opinion, which isn't backed up by any facts or arguments..

Kas'im wins. He outdueled Bane, right? And he knows all the forums of saber combat (did he master all of them?).

Originally posted by kamikz
And Vaapad which Kas'Im has never heard of or seen. Mace is also in damn good physical condition.
Of course he has. After all, who else could have taught Sirak Vaapad?

Vaapad was created by Mace.

It is possible that Vaapad might have been known their sith order.

Originally posted by Escape81
Vaapad was created by Mace.

So it would seem but Sirak appparently learned it before it was even invented.

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
So it would seem but Sirak appparently learned it before it was even invented.

Exactly.

Originally posted by Kas'Im
It is possible that Vaapad might have been known their sith order.

Kas'Im, I don't know you that well, but I've got a really good reading off of you, after seeing you debate and then debating with you, myself.

a. You are a very good debator.
b. But you pull stuff out of your ass and try to pass it off as if it has some bearing on the argument.

In this case, it doesn't.

Mace invented Vapaad. Kas'Im didn't know it. Revan didn't know it. Bane didn't know it.

Accept it and move on. Kas'Im has no clue about it, and therefore, unless he's Grievous - wouldn't be able to mimic it or analyze it.

Originally posted by Escape81
Kas'Im, I don't know you that well, but I've got a really good reading off of you, after seeing you debate and then debating with you, myself.

a. You are a very good debator.
b. But you pull stuff out of your ass and try to pass it off as if it has some bearing on the argument.

In this case, it doesn't.

Mace invented Vapaad. Kas'Im didn't know it. Revan didn't know it. Bane didn't know it.

Accept it and move on. Kas'Im has no clue about it, and therefore, unless he's Grievous - wouldn't be able to mimic it or analyze it.

With the flow walking technique, it's certainly possible.

Before we continue, Kas'Im possesses the 'flow walk' ability?

If the sith learned from the Aing Tii, how come Kaan didn't go into the future and stop Bane or learn how to prevent his death after the thought bomb?

Originally posted by Escape81
Before we continue, Kas'Im possesses the 'flow walk' ability?

No my point is that when you consider techniques in the force such as flow walking, force visions, predicting the future etc., it makes the idea that someone could have learnt a technique that was invented after they learnt it much less ludicrous.

Originally posted by Kas'Im
No my point is that when you consider techniques in the force such as flow walking, force visions, predicting the future etc., it makes the idea that someone could have learnt a technique that was invented after they learnt it much less ludicrous.

Can you confirm that Sirak proved Vaapad? It specifically says Vaapad?

Well he is stated to know Vaapad, when you look deeply into how the force works and consider the possibilities, it doesn't quite count as a contradiction, so it's perfectly valid.

Yep

" At one moment SIrak seemed to be using the thrusts and jabs of Vaapad...."

Kas'im you are wrong. He is stated to know form 7, Juyo. There is NOTHING about him knowing Vaapad.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Kas'im you are wrong. He is stated to know form 7, Juyo. There is NOTHING about him knowing Vaapad.

He and i must have misprints then because my book says that he did.

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
He and i must have misprints then because my book says that he did.

Then the KotoR-fanboy-geek who wrote that book (he's a loser for crediting all the crap that Bane did - to Revan, the scumbag) is wrong. It is canon that Mace invented Vaapad.

Im pretty sure its Juyo.

lol, so true.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Mace Windu. Kas'Im is good, but not good as Windu.


Damn good point, Quinlan.

Im back BTW.
Went to Amsterdam to smoke some legal Hasheesh.

Anyways, from what I've read of Kas'Im, he sounds really, really, damned impressive. Like a total Master.

But, I'd still rate him somewhere below Windu, even with a lightsaber.

Mace also mastered all seven forms - and then took them all to an even higher level with his Vapaad.

Plus If Kas'Im used the Darkside in his fight with Windu, wich he would since he's a Sith Lord, then Windu would just use Kas'Im's own energy to fuel his attacks, and then anything else, he'd just redirect back into him.

So either way, he'd win.

And If he used Shatterpoint, Kas'Im would be dead in under a minuite.


Mace Windu Wins.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Obi-Wan Kenobi is the greatest user of Soresu. His mastery of it has been acknowledged by Mace Windu and even by the whole Jedi Order. With this mastery, he was able to take on the likes of Anakin Skywalker, Durge, Asajj Ventress, and General Grievous. Unless you can name a person who has better skill in Soresu than Obi-Wan, he is the greatest Soresu user.
No, you said he was called the greatest practitioner of Soresu while I asked you to prove it. Simply stating "you don't know anybody else", isn't grounds for calling him the best..


You're just throwing out speculation here. You used Drallig as an example of someone who mastered more than 1 form and was mediocre. In response to that, I will use Yoda..Not to mention Kas'im mastered the art of the double bladed saber, and the twin saber, while I highly doubt Yoda did that..


You're not really giving me an argument here. You're throwing around opinions and speculation. Do I believe Kas'im is greater than Sidious? Hell no. But a better saber duelist? Hell yea..I would easily rank him among the best ever.


How is that preposterous? It's more than likely. Mace was better than Anakin. So were Yoda and Mace? Why is it unrealistic for you to believe Kas'im is too?

Mace wins though.

Hey Sexy, why don't you give me proof why you think Kas'Im is better than Windu or even Kenobi for that fact? how are you assuming that Kas'Im's Jar'Kai is better than Obi-Wan's Soresu besides the fact Kas'Im beat Bane, who's not much of a lightsaber user.

Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Hey Sexy, why don't you give me proof why you think Kas'Im is better than Windu or even Kenobi for that fact? how are you assuming that Kas'Im's Jar'Kai is better than Obi-Wan's Soresu besides the fact Kas'Im beat Bane, who's not much of a lightsaber user.

Proof? Kas'im mastered all 7 lightsaber forms, the jar'kai form, and the double bladed lightsaber. Not even Yoda had mastered all of that. Now the ONUS is on you to prove that Obiwan was the best practitioner of Soresu, and could even stand on the same ground as Bane. With your logic, Obiwan>new sith order.
Bane's not much of a lightsaber user? He was the best in the academy..And Obiwan's Soresu was useless against Dooku, so what makes you think he'll be able to employ it against someone as superior as Kas'im.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Proof? Kas'im mastered all 7 lightsaber forms, the jar'kai form, and the double bladed lightsaber. Not even Yoda had mastered all of that. Now the ONUS is on you to prove that Obiwan was the best practitioner of Soresu, and could even stand on the same ground as Bane. With your logic, Obiwan>new sith order.
Bane's not much of a lightsaber user? He was the best in the academy..And Obiwan's Soresu was useless against Dooku, so what makes you think he'll be able to employ it against someone as superior as Kas'im.

because kasim has never heard of vaapad and yet shatterpoint

Kas'Im flails around like a fish for 30 seconds tops, trying to use his patterns against the unpredictable form of vaapad before Mace puts a boot to his face via shatterpoint.

lmfao.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Kas'Im flails around like a fish for 30 seconds tops, trying to use his patterns against the unpredictable form of vaapad before Mace puts a boot to his face via shatterpoint.


LOL.

AMEN.


Yeah, sorry but Mace wins this, without too much trouble.