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Is it me or does this suggest Jack has been dreaming of Elizabeth?

As Ted said the "why is the rum always gone" line only moments before is a cue as to what Jack has on his mind (Elizabeth)..and she's not there with him she's "gone from his life"

that is so weird, I have always thought that about that line!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think it does mean he has been dreaming if Liz, epically since he just said the line
why is the rum always gone and immediately we all think of Rum Runners Island w/ liz!!

all those rum refrences are not just lines I think they are calling back to Elizabeth every time

"Elizabeth!.....hide the rum"

"hide my emotions towards you"???

OMG!!! Dammit!! I was going to make a post about that!!! I had a thought about that for along time, but I thought it was a silly idea.

Great find LovelyOne....we've never touched on that line before...but it makes sense....on surface it just seems like Jack talking about rum as usual...but if you are analyzing the movie...then yes, cuz he's in the cabin, the compass is pointing to Port Royal and then as far from Port Royal as possible....then Jack says "Why is the rum always gone"...and immediately it brings back the memory of rum runners island from POTC 1, when he says "But why is the rum gone?"....then he goes down to get more rum, runs into Bootstrap and has that line....is this a dream, no it can't be, or there'd be rum....Jack and rum has come to symbolize Elizabeth....and we tie this end to when she shows up in Tortuga and he says "Elizabeth" and turns to Gibbs "Hide the rum"....then he offers Liz rum on the Pearl during the "mar-ri-age conversation......

i feel dumb now lol.

Thats great! haha

I love you sig LovelyOne!

I love it when they are in Tortuga and Liz says "i'm here to find the man i love" blah blah blah and then when she's like "I meant Will" he stops and says "ELIZABETH" it's like his hearts stops or skips a beat or something...it was quite funny!!

And yes i think that rum line does suggest he's dreaming bout elizabeth!!

so do I..oh and I love your siggy too, LovelyOne

after he says that line tho, doesnt bootstrap give him some rum?
sorry, just tryin remember the movie, i havent seen it in a while

i thought i heard where'd be rum. like wheres the rum. I dunno im slow lol

No, he asks Bootstrap if it's a dream and he says no and then Jack says "I thought not. If it were a dream, there'd be rum."

To be honest, I didn't think much of this line except that Bootstrap doesn't figure in to any of Jack's dreams. His dreams include a world where rum is plentiful. But it makes so much sense that he's been dreaming of Liz. He has to associate the two together now because that was probably the last eventful experience he had with rum....and her, lol.

Makes you wonder how often he looks back on the events that happened in COTBP. It can't be any ordinary adventure for him because it resulted in gaining back the Pearl and meeting new allies in Liz and Will. I have a feeling Jack doesn't make friends easily. Every time he walks the deck he has to think about what all happened there.

I'm sure someone has asked this before, but the dress Barbossa put Liz in...is it still on the Pearl? It's the one that she throws to him and he comments that it's warm (plothole because they're not supposed to feel anything, but whatever). I wonder what Jack would do if he knew she wore it.

jack did know that she wore it tho, didnt he? he was there when she took it off...we're talking about the same dress rite? (sry, im not the brightest.lol)

well jack asks why is the rum always gone remembering Liz. Then his perfect dream, for him, is a world with endless rum to share with Liz.

Yes because at this point the only way Liz losens up about her uptight feelings for Jack is when she's had a little Rum...And Liz also uses the RUM as an excuse to be closer to JAck....cause then if something happened she could blame it on the RUM...lol...it's like with the RUM they both enter their own little world where it only consists of LIZ AND JACK!!! Cause notice when they DRINK they are always alone!!!

and, BTW, first time he said about rum ("but why is the rum gone?!" it was with elizabeth on the island, so when he said "If this were a dream there'd be rum" he had to dreaming bout her cause he's connecting drinking rum with liz (drinking rum with pleasure, ya know )

exactly^^ its the thing he most remembers her for..screwing him over with the rum..Its why he's infatuaded with her in the first place..so it would make perfect sense that he says that and has basically been dreaming of Elizabeth.

Also at the end..Liz smells the rum and wont drink it..Its like it reminds her of how Jack tastes and smells...she then grasps the cup as if she's trying to squeeze it and she cries a fresh batch of tears as if its too painful..and just gives a significant "**** moving on in life, I want Jack BACK!" look

you guys always think there's these little..."give aways" in the 2nd movie, I really don't think the writers would put that mush thought into it. It was probably just to give Jack a reason to get up and discover Bootstrap. I love Pirates of the Caribbean but you guys are thinking to hard

yet they put that much thought into the "why is the rum always gone line" didnt they..

so why not do what with any other lines when it comes to rum..or any other line that is random and out of place?

They also say its significant that she chooses not to drink the rum at the end.

Also its not uncommon for there to be hints/symbolism in the mise en scene, dialogue, camera angles and even music in a movie..heck a movie isnt a good movie unless it has hints and symbolisms in it.

Its just like a piece of art..and how an artist paints with meaning..Movie making is an art form. And I would say T&T and Gore are very much auteurs when it comes to movie writing and directing.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
yet they put that much thought into the "why is the rum always gone line" didnt they..

so why not do what with any other lines when it comes to rum..or any other line that is random and out of place?

They also say its significant that she chooses not to drink the rum at the end.

Also its not uncommon for there to be hints/symbolism in the mise en scene, dialogue, camera angles and even music in a movie..heck a movie isnt a good movie unless it has hints and symbolisms in it.

Its just like a piece of art..and how an artist paints with meaning..Movie making is an art form. And I would say T&T and Gore are very much auteurs when it comes to movie writing and directing.

Spoken like a pro, Lovelyone!

I did two years at college doing media studies and they taught us exactly the same thing...

i actually did my final exam on POTC....they showed us a clip of it and we had to analyse it...it was the beginning of POTC when the camera pans up and we see jack from a worms-eye-view looking like the hero.

we analysed POTC to death in college in media studies and it was a favourite with my teacher because he said it had ALOT of symbolism and metaphors...and the mise-en-scene was really important.

Weirdly enough we analysed SHREK in school for coursework...and there are ALOT of symbolisms there too...u have no idea how deep we had to go lmao.

at the end of the day it depends what side of the coin you look at...

1. you either take things at face value.... Jack's a pirate and likes shiny treasure and apparently has a bit of a thing for jars of dirt....

2. or you look deeper than the facade... Jack doesn't like shiny treaure, he just hides behind it just like he does with his jar of dirt...and its because this is what should make him a pirate...and if he isnt a pirate then for some reason he thinks he has nothing...

Writers HAVE to have hidden meanings to things...sometimes these hidden meanings dont always show and the audience are un aware of them...
but sometimes the audience catch on, and it helps the audience to really understand the character and the way they are progressing through the story....

Now im not saying that we should or should not dig too deep into things... some people could argue that digging too deep could disappoint us incase we were infact wrong....
and some people could argue that if we dont dig then we won't really find a decent conclusion for the characters actions/thoughts/feelings....

its all based on opinions at the end of the day, and you either agree or you don't...

But everyone here has a level head and have very good theories that aren't completely 'out there' ...and they make VERY good sense

Thank you T.Maria. I agree with you on everything you say. You are far better with words than I am

I think..what ever happens at the end of the Trilogy will show us if we interpreted what we saw in DMC the right way or not.

Its because there is no answer yet that we seem to come across as desperate fools scraping for answers..that "aren't there" Oh yes they are..and by the end of it all, we will see if we were right or wrong with how we saw and interpreted the hints/symbolic messages, sexual innuendo's of DMC

I agree. so many people don't understand that damn Jar of Dirt..its so very clear why they added that in..and it wasn't really just for a measly joke It was to show us AND Jack himself how much how dangerously he clings onto material things for comfort and safety...grr its so irritating when people just don't understand why things are added in like that and then they laugh at us for "thinking too deep" well go and tell that to Ted and Terry/Gore.

Ted/Terry/gore have all become directors/writers because they took a passion to movies like we did..they studied movies like we have in uni and college and how important symbolism and deeper meaning is to a movie's success etc..so they don't just add random jokes and lines into movies like that which have no meaning..there is meaning to everything added into a story. EVERYTHING be it deeper or just plain straight forward

..people don't have to accept that but people who studied movies (ted/Terry and Gore included) Know not to just make lots of meaningless crap on screen...they have studied movies after all.

People think Spielberg is a great director because he is lucky? Or because he has studied the ins and outs of movies in his youth and what makes them successful and meaningful?

LovelyOne you speak the kind of truth that doesnt come along evryday lol

I so completely agree with what you said;


Ted/Terry/gore have all become directors/writers because they took a passion to movies like we did..they studied movies like we have in uni and college and how important symbolism and deeper meaning is to a movie's success etc..so they don't just add random jokes and lines into movies like that which have no meaning..there is meaning to everything added into a story. EVERYTHING be it deeper or just plain straight forward.

SO TRUE!!

Lets put it like this;

Have you EVER watched a film that you DISPISED so much it made you want to hit the television screen when it came on???

And if you did....WHY did you dispise it??

I betcha i can answer that question;

Depth

For a film/television show to work well it needs to have characters with dimensional personalities....

see, EVERYONE has hidden meanings that other people will not completely understand. It is part of their personality...it is what makes them Unique....characters need this for the audience to believe in them...

THE MATRIX (not just for the special effects) was a brilliant film for me because the characters had their own personal demons...they dealt with things ordinary people deal with (in a way)...they made choices...the characters had 'depth'.

Buffy did this aswell...even though spike was a fictional vampire he was still brought to life by his actions and the things that he did sometimes meant something else....and people LOVED this character because of this.

POTC is the one set of films that tick all of the boxes because there is so much to discuss...not just with other people, but internally also.

The story and the characters have depth, sometimes you can identify with the characters because of their actions/feelings....

and the same goes for the depth of the story...stories need depth if they're going to work.
hints and clues...different opinions on them dont matter, aslong as people acknowledge that they are there....

My most hated film was 'the faculty'...the story had no depth and neither did the characters...it as 2 dimensional and even josh hartnett did not manage to save it for me...
there were no hidden signs and everything was laid out for the audience to realise....

POTC digs that little deeper to get the audience thinking.
IT DEMANDS AN ACTIVE AUDIENCE....
the audience are given the chance to think for themselves...and it works so well because the clues are there for you to pick up...

its just upto you if you want to look into them or not

sorry its long lol

While we seem to have discovered a lot of the symbolism in POTC, I was wondering what was discussed in that class someone was talking about. The one that also did Shrek. Can that person (I'm so sorry, I don't remember who it was) enlighten us?

I think the writers did use rum as an excuse for Jack to be up and about late at night to run into Bootstrap, but even if he wasn't thinking about Liz at the time, the audience now is. We remember his last big experience with rum and it prepares us for watching further scenes with Liz and Jack playing against one another. If it's not a character development line, then it's meant to trigger the audience to think a certain way or remember something specific.

Or willofthewisp, they used it as an excuse to have jack wander downstairs and then decided to add in another rum/liz refrence whist they are at it. Kill two birds with one stone. I had to do that when writing my screenplay in college. (I made a screenplay for th Odyssey lol)

I agree with you so much! T.Maria

See its people like me and you who will could make movies in the future if we ever get the chance cuz we understand what they are all about and how they should be laid out because we have been taught how. As did Ted/Terry and Gore at our age because they basically studied the same subjects as us in college and we understand narrative terms and techniques just as they did. (except they are now pros at it lol)

I would like to see some of these people who aren't interested in this kind of media try and make a standard screenplay. ITS HARDER than you think it is peeps..you have to follow certain layout rules for a screenplay to even work well on paper let alone the big screen..also if you want it to be good..you characters need to be dimensional not just what you see on the surcface..of course you cant do this with mere dialogue and acrions..so what do you do do add depth? ADD SYMBOLISM of course!..its not like a book where you can go into huge depth about what a character is feeling at one moment in time..You need to symbolize certain things or use mise en scene to express things...

YES there is one movie I hate..but its one I had to study endlessly in film studies..."Michael Collins"..to this day i despise my teacher for making us sit through hours and HOURS of that CRAP..utter crap lmao..I tried to be interested but there was like one theme and that was it..nothing interesting about the characters etc

Willofthewisp

in order for Jack to go downstairs..they need to raise a reason for him to in the first place..at the same time they add in something that calls back to Elizabeth and how he misses her.

and that line to bootstrap on its own is very pointless, heck even adding in the fact he goes downstairs is pointless unless it has something else behind it.

so again it goes back to what he said earlier.

script writing is a tricky business everything has to have meaning, never add in an line unless it can be tied in some way to the overall theme/plot of the movie.

Willofthewisp,

t'was i who had to analyse SHREK to death in school....(year 9 if i am correct....so i was14/15 at the time).

It takes the shine off it, i tell you!

We did allkinds to it, right down to the colour of fiona's hair (which is red) and therefore she has a 'firey' personality....

erm...Lord Farquad is small, and therefore he needs to feel 'big' ...and the teacher hinted at a dig at his erm....personal size?

Lovelyone i agree with you so much! lol

Screenplays are so hard to understand...but one thing that helps me are the camera angles...

Like, in DMC when jack stands on the sword and liz looks up and the light is shining on Jack and he's all 'heroic'...the camera SHOWS the audience the symbolism behind this....

Damn its so hard to understand HOW or WHY you need to look into everything in detail....but at the end of the day once you do it, you kind of figure out exactly what it is that a character/storyline is all about...

ok i admit, maybe because we want jack/liz so much that we're looking into it more than usual....but at the end of the day, people would not believe in this couple in the way that they do if SOMETHING had not of triggered it first....

at the end of the day you dig deeper for more evidence that backs up your theories....and very unsurprisingly, everyone seems to find ALOT of extra stuff to add in because there is SO MUCH there!!!

Why does eerybody say we THINK TOO HARD??? Isnt that a good thing lol. Why does everybody think that what we say is what we want to believe and see, that we are just saying it to add a little spice, some sugar some this and that. We enjoy the movy yes of course! But whats the point enjoing when you cant understand it. When you annalize, understand, put the pieces together, the movie seems more exciting!

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
Why does eerybody say we THINK TOO HARD??? Isnt that a good thing lol. Why does everybody think that what we say is what we want to believe and see, that we are just saying it to add a little spice, some sugar some this and that. We enjoy the movy yes of course! But whats the point enjoing when you cant understand it. When you annalize, understand, put the pieces together, the movie seems more exciting!


SO TRUE!!!

You are no longer just Chikimina to me now....you are;

ChikiMina; The Voice Of Reason



you just put into one paragraph EVERYTHING i was trying to say lmao!

not anymore...everyone hates me now.

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
not anymore...everyone hates me now.

what?!!

How could anyone hate you?!!

Your one of the nicest people on this board!!!!

no i drove pirates life fo away. Im not nice anymore

when??

that doesnt mean to say your not nice!

Theres two sides to every story hun, i still luv ya!!

well alot of ppl are pissed at me rigt now, I dont blame them Im sorry.

I dont hate ya chiki come ere *hugz*

same here lovelyone!

*hugs both lovelyone and chiki*

thanx, I dont deserve you guys..

we've all got to stick together!

thats why i love it here...everyone is so friendly and welcoming and we seem to take care of eachother pretty well...

god bless POTC....because if it hadnt of been created then i wouldnt have met all you lovely people lol

EDIT - moved this to a thread of its own..it could be an interesting discussion thread.

.....lovely, can you rephrase your question i dont understand

"We did allkinds to it, right down to the colour of fiona's hair (which is red) and therefore she has a 'firey' personality....

erm...Lord Farquad is small, and therefore he needs to feel 'big' ...and the teacher hinted at a dig at his erm....personal size?"-----T. Maria

You know what they say about small men....EVERYTHING about them is small.

Chiki, I have to agree. You're one of the nicest, most gentle humored, people on the board. I like hearing from you.

As for Jack and his rum, I do feel without a doubt that line was meant to make the audience think of Liz and wonder if he was thinking about her too, but I had a more literal idea...what if he's drinking even more than he used to because of her? Or did someone mention that? You know? Like he can't be with her so he drinks to forget but she's always on his mind and it's because of her he runs out of rum. Oh! Someone should do a video to Whisky Lullaby by Allison Krauss and Brad Paisley. It would be a little sad, but it's really fitting.

She put him out like the burnin' end of a midnight cigarette
She broke his heart he spent his whole life tryin' to forget
We watched him drink his pain away a little at a time
But he never could get drunk enough to get her off his mind
Until the night

1st Chorus
He put that bottle to his head and pulled the trigger
And finally drank away her memory
Life is short but this time it was bigger
Than the strength he had to get up off his knees
We found him with his face down in the pillow
With a note that said I'll love her till I die
And when we buried him beneath the willow
The angels sang a whiskey lullaby

(Sing lullaby)

The rumors flew but nobody knew how much she blamed herself
For years and years she tried to hide the whiskey on her breath
She finally drank her pain away a little at a time
But she never could get drunk enough to get him off her mind
Until the night

2nd Chorus
She put that bottle to her head and pulled the trigger
And finally drank away his memory
Life is short but this time it was bigger
Than the strength she had to get up off her knees
We found her with her face down in the pillow
Clinging to his picture for dear life
We laid her next to him beneath the willow
While the angels sang a whiskey lullaby

Farquad is such a funny name.

He's basically beckett in PotC, trying to rid the world of faury tale creatures *cough* PIRATES with davy's heart *cough*

Canniving, devious short man. (shivers)

I wonder if his wig bites...

No, but they left out a scene where he tortures a Gingerbread Man.

Beckett: Talk, you insufferable cookie!

Ginggy: I'll never tell you where the compass is! Jack is my friend!

Beckett: Fine. Then I'll get out the brand. (Pulls out the "P" brand)

Ginggy: What the hell is that supposed to be for?

Beckett: Pilsbury

Ginggy: Nooooooooo! I'll talk! I'll talk. Do you know the muffin man?

On a serious note and back on the subject of Jack, Liz, and their escapades with rum, I wonder if there is any significance to Jack offering her some on the steps before the Curiosity scene. I'm trying to pull purpose out of each scene and I'm wondering if Jack somewhat thought by giving her rum for a change they might get physically closer like what happened on the island when SHE gave HIM rum. Just thinking that he knows it kind of brings them closer. Or maybe just trying to recreate a pleasant memory. Or maybe he just wanted to share a drink with her.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
"We did allkinds to it, right down to the colour of fiona's hair (which is red) and therefore she has a 'firey' personality....

erm...Lord Farquad is small, and therefore he needs to feel 'big' ...and the teacher hinted at a dig at his erm....personal size?"-----T. Maria

You know what they say about small men....EVERYTHING about them is small.

Chiki, I have to agree. You're one of the nicest, most gentle humored, people on the board. I like hearing from you.

As for Jack and his rum, I do feel without a doubt that line was meant to make the audience think of Liz and wonder if he was thinking about her too, but I had a more literal idea...what if he's drinking even more than he used to because of her? Or did someone mention that? You know? Like he can't be with her so he drinks to forget but she's always on his mind and it's because of her he runs out of rum. Oh! Someone should do a video to Whisky Lullaby by Allison Krauss and Brad Paisley. It would be a little sad, but it's really fitting.

She put him out like the burnin' end of a midnight cigarette
She broke his heart he spent his whole life tryin' to forget
We watched him drink his pain away a little at a time
But he never could get drunk enough to get her off his mind
Until the night

1st Chorus
He put that bottle to his head and pulled the trigger
And finally drank away her memory
Life is short but this time it was bigger
Than the strength he had to get up off his knees
We found him with his face down in the pillow
With a note that said I'll love her till I die
And when we buried him beneath the willow
The angels sang a whiskey lullaby

(Sing lullaby)

The rumors flew but nobody knew how much she blamed herself
For years and years she tried to hide the whiskey on her breath
She finally drank her pain away a little at a time
But she never could get drunk enough to get him off her mind
Until the night

2nd Chorus
She put that bottle to her head and pulled the trigger
And finally drank away his memory
Life is short but this time it was bigger
Than the strength she had to get up off her knees
We found her with her face down in the pillow
Clinging to his picture for dear life
We laid her next to him beneath the willow
While the angels sang a whiskey lullaby you know what's incredibly creepy about that? is that i made POTC charatcers my self that i unknowingly based on jack and liz (abi alex...my versian any way) and the song s i think suit them you guys think suit jack and liz...it's like im a J/L shipper and didn't know it....lol ....i scare me sometimes....

Originally posted by willofthewisp
On a serious note and back on the subject of Jack, Liz, and their escapades with rum, I wonder if there is any significance to Jack offering her some on the steps before the Curiosity scene. I'm trying to pull purpose out of each scene and I'm wondering if Jack somewhat thought by giving her rum for a change they might get physically closer like what happened on the island when SHE gave HIM rum. Just thinking that he knows it kind of brings them closer. Or maybe just trying to recreate a pleasant memory. Or maybe he just wanted to share a drink with her.

I wrote this earlier but i'll put it again cause it relates to what ur saying Willo....but this is my opinion on the rum!!!:

Yes because at this point the only way Liz losens up about her uptight feelings for Jack is when she's had a little Rum...And Liz also uses the RUM as an excuse to be closer to JAck....cause then if something happened she could blame it on the RUM...lol...it's like with the RUM they both enter their own little world where it only consists of LIZ AND JACK!!! Cause notice when they DRINK they are always alone!!!