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Who win's?

Spiderman IMO

Spider-Man's got this.

I don't think Ult. Cap has a single skill superior to Spidey, besides maybe fighting skills.

Ditto

spiderman got handeled by 616 cap in civil war, hows he gonna beat Ult cap

By actually fighting him instead of holding back. And PLEASE tell me how Spider-Man got handled by Cap when at the fights end Cap was on the ground, shieldless and Spider-man had the advantage with his mech arms.

Anyway 616 Spider-man wins. He outclasses Cap in every physical capability and his superior speed and strength more than make up for Cap's fighting skill

I made very sound arguments for 616 Cap versus 616 Spiderman. However, most of those arguments rested on 616 Cap's INSANE fighting skill, and the fact that he'd studied Spiderman. Ultimate Cap definitely HASN'T studied Spidermna, and he also hasn't shown the same level of skill as 616.

Spiderman. Pretty damned often.

Originally posted by jasonk3
spiderman got handeled by 616 cap in civil war, hows he gonna beat Ult cap

*sigh*

...nah, I don't feel like it this time...

Originally posted by DigiMark007
*sigh*

...nah, I don't feel like it this time...

LOL

Originally posted by DigiMark007
*sigh*

...nah, I don't feel like it this time... What were you going to say?

As soon as Spidey realises that Ult Cap is a killer he'll knock the sh!t out of him

If he didn't hold 616 Cap in such high regard he would've put him through a dozen walls during their fight

Spiderman wins

Originally posted by marvelprince
By actually fighting him instead of holding back. And PLEASE tell me how Spider-Man got handled by Cap when at the fights end Cap was on the ground, shieldless and Spider-man had the advantage with his mech arms.

Anyway 616 Spider-man wins. He outclasses Cap in every physical capability and his superior speed and strength more than make up for Cap's fighting skill

Actually Cap landed 3 punches, while all spideman managed to do was scratch his face

http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cw3p3hr4.jpg

this is the other figth in CW they had, where Cap successfully knocked him out

Originally posted by jasonk3
Actually Cap landed 3 punches, while all spideman managed to do was scratch his face

Actually the last shot he handled cost him his shields. If the fight would have continued, he would've gotten slaughtered.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Actually the last ones he handled cost him his shields. If the fight would have continued, he would've gotten slaughtered.

That is speculation, they were standing away from eachother at the end of the fight nobody had the upperhand.....

In this fight I think Spider-Man has a better chance against Ult Cap than he does with 616 Cap (Who is more skilled). I give this to Spider-man 6-7/10.

Lets see.....

Ult cap = 2 tonner and high fighting skills.

Spiderman - 15-20 Tonner , 40 X human reflexes , Danger sense , Superhuman speed , Superhuman durability , stingers , ability to communicate with insects , wall crawling and organic webs.

Yeah Cap is F*cked.

Originally posted by thedude1948
That is speculation, they were standing away from eachother at the end of the fight nobody had the upperhand.....

In this fight I think Spider-Man has a better chance against Ult Cap than he does with 616 Cap (Who is more skilled). I give this to Spider-man 6-7/10.

Captain America = Shieldless vs. Spider-man

how is that a no advantage?

Add to the fact that spider-man was just beggining to fight smartly before the bout was interrupted.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Captain America = Shieldless vs. Spider-man

how is that a no advantage?

Add to the fact that spider-man was just beggining to fight smartly before the bout was interrupted.

And Spider-Man just got up after his lower body was numb from Captain America punching him. Cap being shieldless evens out with the damage that Spider-Man took in the fight. Remember Captain America knew he was going to lose the shield but felt that it was worth it for an opening to be able punch Spider-Man. Spider-Man didnt have any type of positional advantage, they were both standing away from eachother in about the same position, any other type of advantage either had is just speculation.

Originally posted by thedude1948
any other type of advantage either had is just speculation.

So Spidey being fifteen times stronger then Cap is speculation as well

Originally posted by jasonk3
http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cw3p3hr4.jpg

this is the other figth in CW they had, where Cap successfully knocked him out



A scene in the distance where Cap may or may not have even landed a punch is not a KO.

Originally posted by Scoobless


A scene in the distance where Cap may or may not have even landed a punch is not a KO.



I agree that it's not a KO, but I can't believe you would be one of the ones to jump on the band wagon of "That wasn't Spidey getting LAUNCHED into the air! That was him dodging. Spread Eagle. With his head cocked back like he just got a bout of whiplash....."

Thats Spiderman getting hit. But so what that's 616 Cap he's more skilled then U.Cap.


Spiderman wins easier against Ult. Cap.

Take away the PIS and that would never have happened. Remember, PIS is cap's primary power.

Nope skill is.

Besides many martial art fighters give Spidey problems. Daredevil, Wolverine, Shang-chi, the Cat.

Skill will do it.

in comics, yes. But Spiderman is a jobber. He doesn't go all out against Daredevil and certainly not Felicia.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
in comics, yes. But Spiderman is a jobber. He doesn't go all out against Daredevil and certainly not Felicia.

he was Talking about the cat not black cat.

Tigra?

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Tigra?

No he means Shen Kuei, he kicked the crap out of Deadpool a while back...

I can't believe people actually believe that Spidey got the best of Cap in the Civil War fight. Good god. Three hits to one scratch? What kind of possible fanboyism could possibly make people think that Spidey got the better in that fight? Gimme a break.

I also can't believe how many people think Ult. Cap is only a 2 tonner. No matter how many idiots think Ult. Hulk was a pussy and Ult. Cap beating him up was not an indication of Ultimate Super Soldier Serum potency, Ult. Cap has held up trees for goodness sake. How can he be merely 2 ton strength?

616 Cap handles 616 Spidey without his Iron Man joytoy costume. 616 Cap matches Spidey with his Iron Man joytoy costume. Ult. Cap's strength and ruthlessness really should increase Ult. Cap's odds, but I don't think they would be much of a factor. Cool headed strategy and timing is what matters against 616 Spidey w/ his Iron Man tech.

7/10 Ult. Cap same as 616 Cap IMHO.

Spider-Man 7/10.

Originally posted by Soljer
I agree that it's not a KO, but I can't believe you would be one of the ones to jump on the band wagon of "That wasn't Spidey getting LAUNCHED into the air! That was him dodging. Spread Eagle. With his head cocked back like he just got a bout of whiplash....."

C'mon, the guy weighs around 165lbs, most characters are strong enough to knock him off his feet, if they could land a decent punch ... doesn't mean they are going to hurt him much

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I can't believe people actually believe that Spidey got the best of Cap in the Civil War fight. Good god. Three hits to one scratch? What kind of possible fanboyism could possibly make people think that Spidey got the better in that fight? Gimme a break.

I also can't believe how many people think Ult. Cap is only a 2 tonner. No matter how many idiots think Ult. Hulk was a pussy and Ult. Cap beating him up was not an indication of Ultimate Super Soldier Serum potency, Ult. Cap has held up trees for goodness sake. How can he be merely 2 ton strength?

616 Cap handles 616 Spidey without his Iron Man joytoy costume. 616 Cap matches Spidey with his Iron Man joytoy costume. Ult. Cap's strength and ruthlessness really should increase Ult. Cap's odds, but I don't think they would be much of a factor. Cool headed strategy and timing is what matters against 616 Spidey w/ his Iron Man tech.

7/10 Ult. Cap same as 616 Cap IMHO. Trees weigh less than two tons.

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Trees weigh less than two tons. Some trees do. The one that Ult. Cap was holding up was definitely more than two tons. I don't have a scan, but you can search for the Ult. Cap respect thread to see it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Some trees do. The one that Ult. Cap was holding up was definitely more than two tons. I don't have a scan, but you can search for the Ult. Cap respect thread to see it.

At best Ult Cap is a 4-5 tonner. Spidey STILL rams his fist through the guy's chest.

Originally posted by grey fox
At best Ult Cap is a 4-5 tonner. Spidey STILL rams his fist through the guy's chest.

Yup.

Originally posted by Scoobless
C'mon, the guy weighs around 165lbs, most characters are strong enough to knock him off his feet, if they could land a decent punch ... doesn't mean they are going to hurt him much

Didn't mean to say it hurt him. In fact, I don't believe I ever mentioned that Spidey was hurt, just that he WAS hit.

You referred to the action in the scan as "a scene ... where Cap may or may not have landed a punch."

Which I can't agree with - he definitely landed a punch - I've never seen Spidey dodge something like that, .

Did it hurt him? Thats where speculation comes in. Maybe, maybe not, but he was hit nonethless.

I'm gonna agree with MetalMan on this one, Spidey will probably win 7/10 (unless I see some more impressive Ultimate Captain America feats - so far, he's MUCH stronger, but not nearly as skilled). About the same win rate I give 616 Cap. The strength and skill differences balance each other out, in my opinion.

Originally posted by grey fox
At best Ult Cap is a 4-5 tonner. Spidey STILL rams his fist through the guy's chest. If you think Ult. Cap is at best a 4-5 tonner and can't take a hit from Spiderman, it's clear you don't read Ultimates or you would have seen this following scene. This is Ultimate Abomination, easily a 100 tonner, double fist pounding Cap by surprise. There's no rolling with the blow, no shield, no nothing. Does he get splattered? Does he get smooshed? Nope. He gets up to fight Abdul. Let the scan speak for itself and now you can tell yourself that you and your little friend learned something today, Ultimate Cap is far more than you give him credit for:

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If you think Ult. Cap is at best a 4-5 tonner and can't take a hit from Spiderman, it's clear you don't read Ultimates or you would have seen this following scene. This is Ultimate Abomination, easily a 100 tonner, double fist pounding Cap by surprise. There's no rolling with the blow, no shield, no nothing. Does he get splattered? Does he get smooshed? Nope. He gets up to fight Abdul. Let the scan speak for itself and now you can tell yourself that you and your little friend learned something today, Ultimate Cap is far more than you give him credit for:

No doubt. Not to mention him catching and supporting that tree that looked to be hundreds of feet tall. Trees like that can get into hundreds of tons, easy.

Not saying that Ultimate Cap is anywhere NEAR a hundred tonner. Just that the tree was DEFINITELY heavier than 5 tons.

Originally posted by Soljer
No doubt. Not to mention him catching and supporting that tree that looked to be hundreds of feet tall. Trees like that can get into hundreds of tons, easy.

Hundreds of feet tall?... looks more like 40 - 50 ft max

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/7703/untitledscanned15ty8.th.jpg

Originally posted by Scoobless
Hundreds of feet tall?... looks more like 40 - 50 ft max

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/7703/untitledscanned15ty8.th.jpg

I'll admit that I over-estimated the height of the tree (quite a bit) and would say it would probably be closer to 75 feet tall or so. I also did a little calculation, based on the height of the truck, versus the height of the tree (about 1.25 inches versus 8 inches), and assuming that truck was about 12 foot tall, that would also make the tree around 75 feet long.

Regardless, I looked around, and found a tree that had a fourteen inch diameter, and was 33 feet tall. Guess how much it weighed?

Approximately FOURTEEN tons!

Look at the three in the picture! It's wider than friggin Captain America! The diameter appears to be AT LEAST thirty inches. Likely many more.

There is no way the tree only weighed five tons. No way it weighed even as few as TEN. That thing was thirty, minimum.

Originally posted by jasonk3
http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cw3p3hr4.jpg

this is the other figth in CW they had, where Cap successfully knocked him out number_wtf what does this fight have to do with anything?

This just shows Ironman beating on 616 cap, neither of the characters in this scan are even in this debate

Ive seen alot of people saying that a punch from Spidey would "splatter" Ult. Cap, this is untrue. Cap was able to land some very impressive punches, that even brought Hulk to the ground:

http://img335.imageshack.us/img335/8417/ult05p146vq.th.jpg

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1388/ult05p150id.th.jpg

Don't think I'm implying that cap can outright beat the Hulk, because after this point Cap got a severe beatdown, but not even punches to the head from the Hulk "splattered" Cap:

http://img307.imageshack.us/img307/2634/ult05p161ts.th.jpg

http://img314.imageshack.us/img314/4407/ult05p214tz.th.jpg

Im not saying who wins either way, but lets give credit where credit is due, it would be a very close fight...

Originally posted by Soljer
I'll admit that I over-estimated the height of the tree (quite a bit) and would say it would probably be closer to 75 feet tall or so. I also did a little calculation, based on the height of the truck, versus the height of the tree (about 1.25 inches versus 8 inches), and assuming that truck was about 12 foot tall, that would also make the tree around 75 feet long.

Regardless, I looked around, and found a tree that had a fourteen inch diameter, and was 33 feet tall. Guess how much it weighed?

Approximately FOURTEEN tons!

Look at the three in the picture! It's wider than friggin Captain America! The diameter appears to be AT LEAST thirty inches. Likely many more.

There is no way the tree only weighed five tons. No way it weighed even as few as TEN. That thing was thirty, minimum.

...Think about what you just said, my friend.

A 33 foot tall, 14 inch diameter tree weighting 14 tons? Unless this tree was composed of solid lead, you are horribly mistaken.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
...Think about what you just said, my friend.

A 33 foot tall, 14 inch diameter tree weighting 14 tons? Unless this tree was composed of solid lead, you are horribly mistaken.

Some woods can have densities of up to fifteen hundred kilograms per cubic meter. Lead is closer to eleven thousand kilograms per cubic meter.

If you really want to go the mathematical route - let's do it.

Say my estimations were correct, and the tree was 75 feet tall. That's 22.86 meters. Cap is a pretty broad guy, I'm sure, from shoulder to shoulder he's at least around 30 inches, if not more. And the tree's width DWARFED his own. Meaning the tree's diameter was probably around 1-2 meters. Let's go with the average - 1.5.

The volume of the tree would then be (approximately) pi*r^2 * h

or
40.40 cubic meters. Fifteen hundred kilograms per cubic meter? Thirty tons.

(It would be 230 tons if it were made of lead, )

Is any of this to mean that Cap is a constant thirty-tonner? No. Not exactly.

Just that he is sure as HELL stronger than a five tonner.

Not to mention putting the Hulk down with some strikes, taking out Pym while Pym was sixty foot tall, and being relatively unaffected by a double hammer fist from the abomination.

There's no denying it - Ultimate Cap is a hoss.

Originally posted by jasonk3
http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cw3p3hr4.jpg

this is the other figth in CW they had, where Cap successfully knocked him out
Looks more like a LIE to me.

wolviefanboysayswhat?

Originally posted by Zahit
Looks more like a LIE to me.

wolviefanboysayswhat?

yeah definitely a lie, I bet that isnt even Captain America in the scan

Also by my calculations the tree weighs approximately 7000 tons putting Ult. Cap clearly in the 100+ ton class.

Originally posted by thedude1948
yeah definitely a lie, I bet that isnt even Captain America in the scan

Also by my calculations the tree weighs approximately 7000 tons putting Ult. Cap clearly in the 100+ ton class.

Is that a joke, making fun of me, or did you actually somehow calculate that the tree would weigh seven thousand tons?

If the former - I don't think your motives are exactly clear, because I very well defended my position. Throwing random insults out isn't going to invalidate it.

If the latter - ...well...how?

Originally posted by Soljer
I looked around, and found a tree that had a fourteen inch diameter, and was 33 feet tall. Guess how much it weighed?

Approximately FOURTEEN tons!

Perhaps (I'm not gonna search around the net to disprove you ) but Cap wasn't holding up the whole tree... it was still on the ground, meaning he was probably holding less than half it's full weight

Originally posted by Soljer
Some woods can have densities of up to fifteen hundred kilograms per cubic meter. Lead is closer to eleven thousand kilograms per cubic meter.

If you really want to go the mathematical route - let's do it.

Say my estimations were correct, and the tree was 75 feet tall. That's 22.86 meters. Cap is a pretty broad guy, I'm sure, from shoulder to shoulder he's at least around 30 inches, if not more. And the tree's width DWARFED his own. Meaning the tree's diameter was probably around 1-2 meters. Let's go with the average - 1.5.

The volume of the tree would then be (approximately) pi*r^2 * h

or
40.40 cubic meters. Fifteen hundred kilograms per cubic meter? Thirty tons.

(It would be 230 tons if it were made of lead, )

Is any of this to mean that Cap is a constant thirty-tonner? No. Not exactly.

Just that he is sure as HELL stronger than a five tonner.

Not to mention putting the Hulk down with some strikes, taking out Pym while Pym was sixty foot tall, and being relatively unaffected by a double hammer fist from the abomination.

There's no denying it - Ultimate Cap is a hoss.

Really, dude. I understand what you're saying, and I LOVE that you're bringing math and logic into this, but it's just that it's a bit flawed. For one, that tree is 3-4 feet in diameter at the most.

1 ton is a lot. 5 tons is obviously much more. I don't see that tree being anywhere near 30 tons (60,000 lbs).

A legal, fully-loaded 18-wheeler's max weight is 40 tons (80,000 lbs.). A regulation-sized bus is anywhere between 9.5-10 tons (19,000-20,000 lbs). I just can't see that tree, even being as big as it is (looks to be about 55-60 feet long), weighing even as much as a bus and coming nowhere near an 18-wheeler. Otherwise, an 18-wheeler couldn't transport as many large logs at once like it does.

And honestly, I never denied that Ult. Cap isn't hardcore. Cuz he is. In fact, I think he beats a lot of street levelers. But I just feel that Spider-Man is in another league, able to pretty much hand Cap his ass. He's far superior to Cap in every single category except for fighting skills. But when you're abilities far outshine your opponent's, you don't need to have amazing fighting skills.

Spider-Man wins 7/10.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Really, dude. I understand what you're saying, and I LOVE that you're bringing math and logic into this, but it's just that it's a bit flawed. For one, that tree is 3-4 feet in diameter at the most.

1 ton is a lot. 5 tons is obviously much more. I don't see that tree being anywhere near 30 tons (60,000 lbs).

A legal, fully-loaded 18-wheeler's max weight is 40 tons (80,000 lbs.). A regulation-sized bus is anywhere between 9.5-10 tons (19,000-20,000 lbs). I just can't see that tree, even being as big as it is (looks to be about 55-60 feet long), weighing even as much as a bus and coming nowhere near an 18-wheeler. Otherwise, an 18-wheeler couldn't transport as many large logs at once like it does.

And honestly, I never denied that Ult. Cap isn't hardcore. Cuz he is. In fact, I think he beats a lot of street levelers. But I just feel that Spider-Man is in another league, able to pretty much hand Cap his ass. He's far superior to Cap in every single category except for fighting skills. But when you're abilities far outshine your opponent's, you don't need to have amazing fighting skills.

Spider-Man wins 7/10.

I'm not saying that Ultimate Captain America wins this fight, Metalman. Look back to my original post, I gave Spidey the majority. I'm just pointing out (and proving, really) that the tree was quit a bit more than 5 tons. The eighteen wheelers, for one, rarely carry logs that are wider than a man. They usually carry FAR more smaller logs. Also, it isn't uncommon for a loaded eighteen wheeler to be twice (or more) the weight of an unloaded one. They can haul many times their own weight - that is why they are efficient.

Besides that, you said that the tree was 3-4 feet? Well, in my calculations, I assumed that the tree was only about 4.5. I don't see how the six inch discrepancy has gotten you so riled up, .

And fact is, I used (sound) logic and mathematics to show that the tree WOULD have weighed around that. Hell, sequoias really can weigh THOUSANDS of tons. That wood adds up! And as a tree gets larger, it actually becomes DENSER. Regardless of whether YOU think the idea of a thirty thousand ton tree is logical, it is. Quod Erat Demonstrandum. .

Anywho, none of that is really the point in the thread. Like I said at the start of this post - I agree that Spiderman will take a majority. But not due to VASTLY superior strength; rather due to VASTLY superior speed, and the fact that Ultimate Captain America has no idea how Spiderman fights or acts. Not to mention the lax skills compared to his 616 counterpart.

Ultimate Cap won't be winning...but he isn't getting a fist shoved through his chest, and he isn't being radically overpowered by Spidey's strength. It's all about his speed.

Originally posted by Soljer
Is that a joke, making fun of me, or did you actually somehow calculate that the tree would weigh seven thousand tons?

If the former - I don't think your motives are exactly clear, because I very well defended my position. Throwing random insults out isn't going to invalidate it.

If the latter - ...well...how?

Yeah I was being sarcastic, but I didnt mean for it to be a jab at you. I actually do agree with your take on it, In the panel with the guy saying "Oh, $^*@!" you can see that the diameter of the tree is still huge and that is just the diameter from about 30 feet up the tree.

Originally posted by thedude1948
Yeah I was being sarcastic, but I didnt mean for it to be a jab at you. I actually do agree with your take on it, In the panel with the guy saying "Oh, $^*@!" you can see that the diameter of the tree is still huge and that is just the diameter from about 30 feet up the tree.

Too true. In that particular panel, it looks like the tree is as wide as two or three Soldiers. Easily 2 meters, judging by that panel.

I was going with the one where Cap is actually shown holding it, but it is vague, because it looks like he is supporting one side of it, while the other is hanging off of his body.

. Regardless, I think it's now obvious that the friggin tree was a little larger than five tons.

Not to mention the impulse that something that large would be carrying as it whacks the ground...

Originally posted by Soljer
I'm not saying that Ultimate Captain America wins this fight, Metalman. Look back to my original post, I gave Spidey the majority. I'm just pointing out (and proving, really) that the tree was quit a bit more than 5 tons. The eighteen wheelers, for one, rarely carry logs that are wider than a man. They usually carry FAR more smaller logs. Also, it isn't uncommon for a loaded eighteen wheeler to be twice (or more) the weight of an unloaded one. They can haul many times their own weight - that is why they are efficient.

Besides that, you said that the tree was 3-4 feet? Well, in my calculations, I assumed that the tree was only about 4.5. I don't see how the six inch discrepancy has gotten you so riled up, .

And fact is, I used (sound) logic and mathematics to show that the tree WOULD have weighed around that. Hell, sequoias really can weigh THOUSANDS of tons. That wood adds up! And as a tree gets larger, it actually becomes DENSER. Regardless of whether YOU think the idea of a thirty thousand ton tree is logical, it is. Quod Erat Demonstrandum. .

Anywho, none of that is really the point in the thread. Like I said at the start of this post - I agree that Spiderman will take a majority. But not due to VASTLY superior strength; rather due to VASTLY superior speed, and the fact that Ultimate Captain America has no idea how Spiderman fights or acts. Not to mention the lax skills compared to his 616 counterpart.

Ultimate Cap won't be winning...but he isn't getting a fist shoved through his chest, and he isn't being radically overpowered by Spidey's strength. It's all about his speed.

Okay, I guess we were in agreement all along then. I think I just missed the part where you said Spidey gets the majority. I also never said Spidey would shove his fist through Cap's chest, never thought that would even happen.

But yea. Spidey's versatility is what wins this fight.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Okay, I guess we were in agreement all along then. I think I just missed the part where you said Spidey gets the majority. I also never said Spidey would shove his fist through Cap's chest, never thought that would even happen.

But yea. Spidey's versatility is what wins this fight.

I know that you didn't say that it would be the outcome of the fight. Someone else posted that, and I contend that Ultimate Cap is outlcassed in neither strength nor durability.

Simply speed, agility, and webbing. Really clinches the match for Spiderman.

Not to mention his armor's cloak! .

Originally posted by Soljer
I know that you didn't say that it would be the outcome of the fight. Someone else posted that, and I contend that Ultimate Cap is outlcassed in neither strength nor durability.

Simply speed, agility, and webbing. Really clinches the match for Spiderman.

Not to mention his armor's cloak! .

Well, honestly, as strong and as durable as Ult. Cap is, Spider-Man actually DOES still outclass him in these categories as well. Just not as much as the other ones.

And yes, the armor's cloak. I always forget about that in debates.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Well, honestly, as strong and as durable as Ult. Cap is, Spider-Man actually DOES still outclass him in these categories as well. Just not as much as the other ones.

And yes, the armor's cloak. I always forget about that in debates.

I'm not confident that Spiderman outclasses his durability. Taking several shots from the hulk like they were nothing, jumping out of planes without a parachute, survivng a nuclear explosion, taking hits from abomination....Ultimate Captain America is pretty friggin durable.

Strength, I would likely give a (small) edge to Spiderman. I know that Spidey is RUMORED to have increased his strength, but he hasn't any feats yet to put him above 15-20 tons, at most. I figure Ultimate Cap is at least 10-15, so he isn't radically outclassed. He's beaten, sure, but not outclassed. :-D.

Now...how about Ultimate Cap's strength and durability, with 616 Cap's skills and knowledge, and whoever has superior speed's speed?



I'm tempted to say that Captain America would manage a majority in such a situation, .

Originally posted by Soljer
I'm not confident that Spiderman outclasses his durability. Taking several shots from the hulk like they were nothing, jumping out of planes without a parachute, survivng a nuclear explosion, taking hits from abomination....Ultimate Captain America is pretty friggin durable.

Strength, I would likely give a (small) edge to Spiderman. I know that Spidey is RUMORED to have increased his strength, but he hasn't any feats yet to put him above 15-20 tons, at most. I figure Ultimate Cap is at least 10-15, so he isn't radically outclassed. He's beaten, sure, but not outclassed. :-D.

Now...how about Ultimate Cap's strength and durability, with 616 Cap's skills and knowledge, and whoever has superior speed's speed?



I'm tempted to say that Captain America would manage a majority in such a situation, .

Unfortunately, I'm not.

I love Cap, both 616 and Ult., but Spidey is just in another league.

And I really wouldn't, no matter how strong Ult. Cap appears to be, put him anywhere near the 10-15 ton range. The only strength feat he has is that tree. If he were that strong, he'd be tossing cars around and literally knocking Hulk hundreds of feet away with each punch.

Ult. Cap taking punches from Ult. Hulk like they were nothing???
He looked pretty banged up from what I could tell......

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I also never said Spidey would shove his fist through Cap's chest, never thought that would even happen.


That would be me

I still can't believe how people believe Spidey is above Ult. Cap in strength or durability. Simply amazing. This just flat out ignores everything Ult. Cap has done and endured. Strength-wise, read Soljer's calculations. That's pressing strength. How about leaping ability? Ult. Cap jumps what looks to be around fifty feet in the air in Ultimates #12 when he crashes a jet into Herr Kleiser. Strength without leverage? He throws off Liberator footsoldiers in Ultimates Vol 2 #12, the very same Liberator footsoldiers who toppled the friggin Statue of Liberty on their own. Those f()ckers were strong and they were literally blowing right through Giant-men.

Durability wise? He's jumped out of a helicopter 600 feet from the air into water without so much as a pause. I'd like someone to throw Spiderman out of a helicopter from 600 feet high and see how he deals with it. This just gives more credence to the quote from Ultimates #1 where Bucky comments how Ult. Cap thinks parachutes are for sissies. He really did not have a parachute and was going to jump out, had his plans not changed in that raid. Then lets not forget how Ult. Cap continues to take full blown shots from 100 tonners straight on. Can Spidey take a full blown double fist pound from even Thing? F()ck no.

How about his insane healing ability? Yeah he gets f'ed up in fights but remember in Ultimates Vol 2 #9 where SHIELD attacks him? He gets hit with half a pint of tetradotoxin. Tetradotoxin is a real poison found in blowfish and a single milligram placed on the head of a pin kills a fullgrown man. Source from this website: http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/ttx/ttx.htm. He gets up in the 15 seconds Fury scolds him and proceeds to stomp everyone's a$$. Half a pint is 240 times 1 milligram.

I sometimes feel like people just refuse to see Ult. Cap is truly this strong because they're used to 616 Cap who can do all sorts of great stuff without the strength. Either that, or they're just completely ignorant. Ult. Cap is far above Spidey in strength and durability. I think its an undue assumption to say he's outclassed in agility also. He runs through and leaps through hails of bullets just like good ole Cap. He runs up steel girders Matrix-style and walljumpkicks people in the face. Personally, I haven't seen anything that makes me believe he's only peakhuman agility. He might not be Spidey-level agility since I consider his to be nearly top-classed in that department, but he isn't supremely outclassed either.

Besides, we've seen what 616 Cap can do to Spidey at peakhuman agility. 3 solid hits to one nick on the face? Apparently superhuman agility doesn't truly determine every fight when it comes to pure skill.

And that's the only caveat. Ult. Cap appears to be more of a tactician and man-up macho fighter who half the time trades blows and half the time fights maliciously quick and dirty. 616 Cap is a 'always finds a way' master H2H combatant who continues to fight people who completely outclass him stat-wise with pure skill. However, it would be a similarly bad assumption to conclude Ult. Cap's fighting skills are far below Cap's or even Spidey's. Guy's got martial art moves and acrobatics in his fights. As far as I can tell, Ult. Cap's only poor showing was against Ult. Nightowl in a straightup brawl in what appaeared to be a fight written for pure humor. That could certainly say a lot, but I have no idea how strong Ult. Nightowl was or how good a fighter he was. If anything, I'd chalk up the fight to Ult. Cap underestimating his opponent and just going man up against him to be macho.

That's his one true weakness. He mans up sometimes instead of using strategy when he wants to stomp someone. Spidey could take advantage of that. In fact, he might use his good ole humor to make Ult. Cap lose his cool. That's why I say that even though Ult. Cap is way up there in strength and durability, those advantages only offset his cocky attitude and bring him back on even-keel with good ole 616 Cap.

Ult. Cap 7/10

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Unfortunately, I'm not.

I love Cap, both 616 and Ult., but Spidey is just in another league.

And I really wouldn't, no matter how strong Ult. Cap appears to be, put him anywhere near the 10-15 ton range. The only strength feat he has is that tree. If he were that strong, he'd be tossing cars around and literally knocking Hulk hundreds of feet away with each punch.

Ult Cap's strength and durability combined with 616's skill and shield?

Yeah. He could get a majority off of Spidey.

Originally posted by Soljer
Ult Cap's strength and durability combined with 616's skill and shield?

Yeah. He could get a majority off of Spidey.

I don't see it. Ult. Cap is 5 tonner...10 tonner at the most. Spider-Man is still a 20+ tonner, who is faster and far more agile than Cap. Also has better reflexes, spider-sense, durability, etc.

Enemies have broken their hands when punching Spider-Man. Scorpion (who is stronger than Spidey) nearly broke his hands when punch Spidey in the gut several times. Same goes for other instances of durability. They're all in the Spidey respect thread if you'd like to find them.

616 Cap is highly skilled and has the superior shield. Ult. Cap is stronger, faster, and more durable. Together, they would make a highly-powerful character. And even still, Spider-Man would be able to beat him.

Until I see Ult. Cap perform some of the strength feats of Spider-Man, I count that tree thing as a random high-end feat.

Ult. Cap is no were as strong as 616 Spiderman.

Heck that tree catch doesn't even out-due 616 Cap feats.