Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

So many people don't understand why this scene was added. I don't really know why either..

but looking back on it I notice a few things.

1. the dog is brought back (I know many of you don't believe me with that one lol)

2. Jack's luck

previously he managed to escape from prison

then the monkey threw his hat overboard, the Greeks picked it up and the Kraken thought it was Jack and this bought him some time

the cannibal island:

This whole scene showed us typical Jack. The one who runs between the raindrops and miraculously gets himself out of tight spots.

firstly they recognised him as a god and everyone else was put in a cage. If he remained sat there they probably wouldn't have eaten him.

he escapes from the fire.

All the fruit missed him and landed on separate ends of the poll

He flipped over the canyon thing (when I saw that I thought it was way too unbelievable lol)..he fell through about 4 bridges.. The fruit missed him when it landed, he dodged all the cannibals who were chasing him.

anything else?

Then WHY don't we see lucky Jack after he meets Tia?

Also Jack seems to mature in character after he meets Tia...the way Jack behaved on the cannibal island was kinda slowly fizzling away. The way he behaved on the island reminded me of Jack in movie 1 then later he starts to change in demeanor a tad wouldnt you agree?

It seems as if he wasn't able to just dodge things as easily as he once did in movie 1 and on that cannibal islan. Or did he?

well he died at the end so..

things just stopped working out for him....

then Will appears to be the one who has lucky escapes after he meets Tia..

I personally agree with your dog theroy 100%
and I never really thought that the cannibal island scene should not have been in the movie, I thought it was a very signifigant part of the movie, just for the reasons you have given, in COTBP Jack is extremly Luxky and gets out of everything, after canniblal Island, your right his luck seems to deminish, that is beacsue Elizabeth came back into his life and he began thinking of her more and more ( Compass not working for him, Jar of Dirt, Loosing his hat, saying while he tries to make the compass work I know what I want, I know what I want) he is truly vexed
Now when Will meets Tia, I think he is really curious about her, and wwhat she meant when she told him he had atouch of destiny about him, when Elizabeth begins to have persiatant feelins for jack and they both become Vexed with eachother, she is sort of leaving will, and his thoughts are not on her but on saving his father, there fore IMO Jacks pre Liz(Vexed) luck has moved to Will because Will in NOT vexed by Elizabeth, he is consumed with finding a way to save his father, just like Jack in COTBP he was consumed with what? getiing the Pearl back thats all nothing else

Thanks for believeing in ma dog thing

I'm not actually sure Liz is the bad thing here.

Its funny how its his 13 year as a pirate..bad luck..but it can also bring good luck

He meets Tia and she finds out that he is vexed by another woman..she even gives Jack something that brings him more pain than help. (or does she? )

I have a feeling Tia was giving Jack luck but now she's taken it away because he's in love with another woman...but her intentions are not bad. She's helping him gain Elizabeth it seems..the Jar od dirt was a major factor in him gaining Elizabeth

Liz is actually the thing Jack needs now if he's going to survive in a dangerous world where his luck has run out. I think its an important lesson to him.

People fight bravely when they are protecting someone they love (he learned this before he died) cowards will perish quickly..he needed that change from Elizbaeth.

that death is not really a bad thing IMO. Its time for Jack to be "baptised" and be reborn as a character, he NEEDS to be different now because the world is changing..but that cant happen unless he is cleansed of everything that was old..This signals a huge psychological shift his character You see this happen to major characters in movies all the time..and I'm not shipping here but its usually because of a female. and when they come back they are far better suited to the female...Its like a ritual rebirth..a wash away of sins..purification, time to reflect and learn (Jack's purgatory, talking crabs etc etc)..although there will probably be a mock death and rebirth stage for Jack later on in AWE..this usually shows us another symbolic purification before he can return to his ordinary world (but with a reward gained on the journey of course)

I also think Will and Liz as characters might go through this(but it wont be such a significant event)..they'll become different for the new world..Liz will have to return. Will is probably going to die.

you see it in various things like Star Wars, Buffy the vampire slayer, the odyssey..many more where a lead character actually dies and comes back different and purified.

Totally agree
I dont think Liz is a bad thing either, I just think that she is what Jack needs in his life to make him realize who is is, and that he has strngths not just material objects andgood luck to help him through life, she is the reason Jack had the courage to face the Kraken at the end

Will's character I think has made a 180, at the beginining of COTBP he hated pirates, and even turned around to rescue a Pirate(Jack) at the end of the film, now he is basically turning into a pirate just like jack told him ( pirate is in your bllod boy so you will have to square with that someday) he dosent exactlly need Elizabeth to realize his destiny and who he is. ( I keep the promises I make Jak, I intend to free my father) all the more reason to believe Will is going to stab the heart and free his father, th eproof of it is in DMC by that once quote made by Will

I am rambling sorry

I agree that it should have been left in the movie, but it wasn't as important a part. We need that comic relief, that "mindless" action to provide contrast and surprise for how dark the story will become. We need a break from character development and plot sometimes, so that's why I think it's in there.

To look at it a little deeper, it shows us more about Will than it does Jack. Jack is being typical Jack, trying to use his wits to get out of trouble and just barely making it out due to his bad luck and clumsiness. But it shows us Will's persistence and leadership abilities. The crew would have died in their bone cages and Jack may or may not have made it out if Will hadn't come. It is Will that gets the ball rolling (literally) on the cannibal island, and in a way, reinforces just how well he and Jack work together in spite of their annoyance with each other. It shows us that Will is a pretty capable, strong person who is capable of good (freeing Jack and his crew), but those abilities coupled with anger and rage could lead him down a dark path.

To quote Obi-Wan: Your insights serve you well. They do you credit, but they could be made to serve the Empire.

Good point, when you do really look at it, maybe the scene was meant to show heroic efforts of William Turner, maybe its sort of a way to prepare the audience for future heroic efforts to serve in his benifit, he nneds the compass, and he saw jack had it on his belt, helps free the crew, and as they are about to leave he says what about Jack, I wont leave without him, what hes saying is I wont leave without the compass, so maybe the scene was meant to show how badly Will wants the compass, not the friendship of Jack
he said it himself at the beginning of the movie
he and jack are more aquantiences than friends

lol willofthewisp this is where we just wont agree. Nothing in a movie should be pointless and a break from character development/plot even if its for comic relief that is like the single biggest "no no" when writing a successful script. It has to have meaning to something greater later on. People would tear them apart for doing that if that was their intent.

Honestly T&T as writers know this. I'm sure they do. If I added in a scene like that into my screenplay coursework for just comic relief and there was a lack of characters development/plot..I would have been kicked off the course for wasting my teachers time pursuing something that I didn't take seriously


T&T are not stupid enough to add a pointless scene in to a movie like this. They know all of this stuff. They were taught it in college and uni too I'm sure of it.

I know what I need to find. My sheet for the coursework and scan it in. The vital "do's" and "donts" of writing a screenplay

Jack's luck really does run out. He gets smacked in the head by bars, he foolishly puts the heart into the Jar and loses it, he falls down the stairs, davy is not threatened by the jar and he blows the crap out of the pearl. It didnt keep the kraken away.

Also the story doesnt actually kick off for either character until they both meet Tia (mentor) this is where the bal starts to roll in the story..in most stories anyway.

thats why I see Jack's lil mission with the heart and Will's lil mission to save Liz as the fake mission.
funny how Liz only meets her at the end too..slow coach..saving Will was/is the fake mission IMO anyway

Sigh. LovelyOne, you got me. If you look at my last post, I kind of started looking a little deeper to find a meaning in that scene besides a change of mood and I found one that is about Will. Jack doesn't do anything clever, anything proactive, anything to say anything about his character. He reacts to Will and then makes his escape. Once again, a break for Captain Jack Sparrow.
The scene, if it has a purpose at all, is a Will Turner scene and not a Jack one. Will is the hero in this scene and you can even look at it later developing Jack's character. They're back on the Pearl and Will is explaining to Jack what he needs and why and Jack doesn't seem to really care or be that interested in helping. It kind of just reinforces his selfishness at this point because Will just went through a lot to save him. So I guess it had a purpose after all.

You're completely right that movies shouldn't have pointless scenes, but I think people make mistakes sometimes.

His luck does sorta run out.

He never even get's hit with the frying pan untill, oh wait, thats Ed Wood...

Yes Willofthewisp..which was my original point

mypoint was Jack doesn't do anything clever we just see his extraordinary luck he posseses when it comes to escaping dangerous situations....and yes we see contrast here, Will uses brain when escaping the situation and Jack just has sheer luck. Again if this was a scene for mainly Willl then we wouldnt even see Jack escaping at all. That would be wasted screen time. We would just see him running along the beach towards Will if the scene was not about him and mostly about Will. But we dont wee see a sequence of about 5 lucky near misses of death on Jack's behalf.

see how the luck switches after they both meet Tia?

Will has sheer luck in many sequences where as Jack doesnt.

Will luckily escapes fromt the kraken etc etc...Jack dies

Ad I disagree here when you say he's not escaping for any active purpose. They made it so Jack stops dead in his tracks when Will says Liz is in danger..only here does he try to esscape. I dont think its to directly save Liz...he wants to escape, find the heart, get rid of davy, basically save himself first and THEN dave Liz...Its like.."oh crap I'll save myself quick then help her"

That line Will says is the very reason Jack decideds to escape for one reason or another.

And he also gets rid of Will becacauseWill trying to make him just drop his problems first and directly help Liz..which he wont do.(yet) Till he meets his mentor (Tia)..its his "refusal of the call" here

I think this is where heis character is developing...he's got to learn to drop what he's doing in order to save Liz and in doing so he will gain her.

so ur saying that u think Tia has something to do with Jack and Will's luck!!!?

Yea.

mainly because of the Odyssey/Calypso similarities.

for 7 years Calypso kept Odysseus away from danger and Poseidon's rage (at the same time it makes Oddy very cowardly and weak)..until he actively starts to long for another female (proper relationship) on the 7th year and the strength returns ..

Calypso now knows he wont budge when it comes to him being with Penelope. Tia/Calypso basically states out loud that she knows Jack wants Liz. I think she knows Jack will never budge when it comes to Elizabeth (she's his soul mate)

Calypso then lets Odysseus go but also wishes to help him on his journey in returning home to Penelope

When Oddy leaves her..he faces Poseidon's(sea god's) wrath and is swallowed by the sea..only to be reborn later a better man when it comes to facing his feminine side

which is where I think jack is at the end of DMC/start of AWE..He faces Davy's(sea gods) wrath(kraken) and is swallowed by the sea only to be reborn from the waves fully prepared to be with Elizabeth...firstly there is the whole "Nausicaa" scene (virgin girl) who I think Liz is going to represent in AWE at the start.

um yeah, does anybody have a clip from the island scene? i would love to hear him say, pa liki liki again!

Well I dont believe in lucks just destiny by choices that you make. But speaking in pirate terms, maybe Tia had somthing to do with it. But im not 100% convinced.

nah man its luck IMO..did you not see Jack flip over a huge cliff onto the other side by using a stick? If thats not lucK i dont know what is

he fell through about 4 bridges..and I was asking myself "why is he not dead?"

all the fruit missed him too when it landed.

If i saw Will do that or Liz do those things I would be like "ok what the heck? that's not right even in a fantasy film..humans cant do things like that"

yet Jack seems to constantly dodge death..until the end that is.

Jack always cheats on death. But its like im not sure if the writers wrote this as for the hell of it of torturing jack with almost death scenes. Or really were planning on the Jack having luck thing.

Im not debating with you im debating myself lol I dont know which one should I incline to.

I think you're onto something here, mainly because of Tia's interest in Will. She and Jack were meant to have been lovers, but Tia's sole focus point was Will from the moment he entered the hut. If Tia is capable of seeing someone's destiny and what their heart desires, why would she not use that information to also get what she wants. She was too quick to urge everyone to rescue Jack. There's something in it for her, and it has to do with Will's destiny.

Originally posted by shannstar79
I personally agree with your dog theroy 100%
and I never really thought that the cannibal island scene should not have been in the movie, I thought it was a very signifigant part of the movie, just for the reasons you have given, in COTBP Jack is extremly Luxky and gets out of everything, after canniblal Island, your right his luck seems to deminish, that is beacsue Elizabeth came back into his life and he began thinking of her more and more ( Compass not working for him, Jar of Dirt, Loosing his hat, saying while he tries to make the compass work I know what I want, I know what I want) he is truly vexed
Now when Will meets Tia, I think he is really curious about her, and wwhat she meant when she told him he had atouch of destiny about him, when Elizabeth begins to have persiatant feelins for jack and they both become Vexed with eachother, she is sort of leaving will, and his thoughts are not on her but on saving his father, there fore IMO Jacks pre Liz(Vexed) luck has moved to Will because Will in NOT vexed by Elizabeth, he is consumed with finding a way to save his father, just like Jack in COTBP he was consumed with what? getiing the Pearl back thats all nothing else
oh yeh that makes sense... remember when tia asks wut vexes all men and jack is the first to answer.. he's like "a woman!"

But how is he that much luckier in COTBP? We first see him on a sinking ship, he's thrown in jail thanks to a drunken blacksmith, he gets marooned a second time, and arrested and almost hanged. I'll admit he's clever and uses his wit to get out of most of those situations. Either that or someone helps him like Liz or Will, but I just don't think luck plays that big a part in a series that puts such a high value on thinking things through and being resourceful.

I agree completely Jack is thinking of Liz, and he does stop in his tracks when he hears she's in jail, but that doesn't mean anything since that doesn't guarantee he'll actually see her. They go to Tia's and of course she makes everything open-ended and up for interpretation, but why should she show any interest in Jack? They WERE lovers, and probably more casual lovers than the word implies. She's interested in Will, or at least wants to have sex with him and he flirts back in a dork kind of way. I just am not convinced she's playing as big a role as some people think. She's playing a role, but I don't think she's this presence that influences every move they make.

I like the expression on CJS's face after he has pole vaulted to the other side and he thinks "Huh, I made it". It is priceless.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
But how is he that much luckier in COTBP? We first see him on a sinking ship, he's thrown in jail thanks to a drunken blacksmith, he gets marooned a second time, and arrested and almost hanged. I'll admit he's clever and uses his wit to get out of most of those situations. Either that or someone helps him like Liz or Will, but I just don't think luck plays that big a part in a series that puts such a high value on thinking things through and being resourceful.

I agree completely Jack is thinking of Liz, and he does stop in his tracks when he hears she's in jail, but that doesn't mean anything since that doesn't guarantee he'll actually see her. They go to Tia's and of course she makes everything open-ended and up for interpretation, but why should she show any interest in Jack? They WERE lovers, and probably more casual lovers than the word implies. She's interested in Will, or at least wants to have sex with him and he flirts back in a dork kind of way. I just am not convinced she's playing as big a role as some people think. She's playing a role, but I don't think she's this presence that influences every move they make.

he manages to step onto land before the boat fully sinks

he gets marooned and miraculously escapes.

he gets marooned again, he does escape again..he's in the hands of Norri but he does escape in the long run

he almost gets hanged he balances on a sword...he could have slipped easily and died

he ends up in jail but he escapes..through lucky circumstances

when he escapes norri the first time..he misses all th shots aimed at him on the bridge and up in the air.

he dodges the rocks when he falls and this is so important to note because when Liz fell it was luck that she didn't hit the rocks but Norri decided not to jump because it was "a miracle she didn't hit them" Jack falls and doesn't hit them either???

It must play a part because in the commentary or in an interview Johnny or the writers(cant remember) say "He has the ability to miraculously run between the raindrops"
even way back then it was a theme with movie 1.

then all of a sudden in DMC it starts to fizzle away

Jack and Tia don't end up lovers in AWE but that doesn't mean she's not secretly in love with him still. I don't think he was ever in love with her at ALL I agree with you

It's not all luck all the time with Jack..he is quick of wit..he is a master of planning ahead but in certain situations..luck seems to be following him..ones where he cant use his wit to escape.

It's just that if you compare Jack to other action heroes, he's as lucky or unlucky as the rest of them. Indiana Jones, jeez there's a guy who everyone thought would be dead by 25, yet he survives and rescues his hat every time, too. Even the guy from The Mummy has an incredible amount of luck. The writers of these movies, and I think you'll agree since you're in film studies, know their heroes have to dodge the bullets, get pulled away from the sword's edge or else there is no more story.

Do you really think Tia is in love with Jack? She doesn't seem to be. She seems to just be on friendly terms with him. Didn't you say that it might be Tia pushing him towards Liz? Not that I think that either, but that's not what a woman in love would do. Even though she's Calypso and Calypso lusted after Odysseus, a big focus here is that she's untameable. Even Jack wouldn't be enough of a challenge for her because he's mortal. Even if he were made immortal somehow, she would win him too easily, you know? I think her heart still beats for Davy, if anyone.

yes thats true..Indiana dodges death etc..but I don't ever remember him dying in a movie.

same goes for the guy in the mummy

and as for Calypso and Odysseus..she was in love with him but he could never return it..Calypso means "eclipse" she holds on too tight and Odysseus cant hold back...he's inferior

which really reminds me of Liz/Will
I think she is sort of pushing him towards Liz..because Will's destiny is to save his dad by stabbing the heart, Tia saw it and sent him on his way there..knowing what would happen, she also finds out Jack is falling for Elizabeth...and he bumps straight into her..after this. she also gives him the jar of dirt..she seems to be able to see the future..she knows its not gonna help him get away from Davy or keep the heart...it actually is probably a main reason why Jack returned to the pearl. The extra nudge.

super natural helper of the story

Originally posted by johnnyforever
um yeah, does anybody have a clip from the island scene? i would love to hear him say, pa liki liki again!

sorry I do not have one
have you checked youtube?

Originally posted by shannstar79
sorry I do not have one
have you checked youtube? yeah. i tried searching for, 'cannibal island scene', but it said nothing was found. but maybe i'm just not searching it right

I would like to see the scene where Jack looks at his compass saying "i knw what I want I know what I want"

chiki I love that scene. Cuz Jack does know he wants Liz and IMO he's trying to tell the compass that he knows it so it doesnt need to show him that anymore...he's hoping it might point to the chest if he tells it that i bet

Originally posted by LovelyOne
chiki I love that scene. Cuz Jack does know he wants Liz and IMO he's trying to tell the compass that he knows it so it doesnt need to show him that anymore...he's hoping it might point to the chest if he tells it that i bet

Yea thats why I love that scene.He knows he wants Liz but hes so frustrated on himself for wanting her lol. I realy cant remember the rest of it, but the one thing I will never forget is his frustration over the compass. Priceless lol

I like that scene as well. You can really tell that something is wrong w/ Jack. He looks like if he's hiding something. And at that point you realized that thats not what he really wants. He is being in total denial, he's acting like Liz there. That was a really interesting part to watch.

I found the cannibal scene!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYuHgEVGl2Q

i'll brb with some others!

And here's the 'Hide the rum' scene!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIBOESeZ-IY

the person that posted these was, pirate1414, so you could probably search that and find all of the other clips from DMC!

OHH THANKS!!

Your Welcome!! i knew one day i'd be able to help!

Lol, I love that "I know what I want" scene because I kept thinking how cool it would be if he really wanted Liz, and then I saw it was true!

"yes thats true..Indiana dodges death etc..but I don't ever remember him dying in a movie.

same goes for the guy in the mummy"

Technically, Indiana Jones doesn't really die, but becomes sort of possessed by an evil spirit and the good, heroic part of him temporarily dies, and Rick (I think that's the name of the guy in the Mummy) doesn't die, but his wife does and she's a hero in her own right, so these things do happen. Who knows? Maybe Jack can be alive inside the Kracken!

Here's what I don't get in regards to what you said about Tia and Jack. Why can't her Odysseus be Will? I don't see anything that suggests she sees Jack as anything more than a never-do-well friend. She laughs at him for not knowing what he wants and then moves right on to telling Will all about Davy Jones. I would think a woman in love would at least show some disappointed or angry expression if the guy she was nuts for wanted someone else. Plus why do all the underhanded stuff like bringing Liz and Jack together? Didn't you suggest she did that too?

I thought, which wont make sense, that Will is like at first like Odysseus son Telemachus(spelling) Till just call him Tele. Tele's problem was that he couldnt mature enough to become a man. Didnt have enough fighting experience and was very innocent. Was considered a boy other than a man. Thats what I thought about Will. Hes still a boy and isnt fully grown yet into a whole man.

I think Will could be both Odysseous/Tele. He was naive and has not yet grown as a man should with a sense of maturity and power. I believe that Will should turn like Odysseus by the end of the movie. He has grown, matured, his character finally developed. Plus he was offered immortality from auntie Dalma.

Its a very very psycho theory. I was thinking about that for a while. I had to get that out of my chest.

It's not so psycho. Jack almost takes on a father role with Will in the first movie. He's slightly older, introduces him into a new world, teaches him a little.