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thats all that was lacking in Batman Begins. everything else was great but the fighting scenes sucked. completely incomprehensible. i mean, the one with the 4 ninjas wasnt that bad, but the beginning one in the jail cell in Bhutan and the fighting scene at the docks, were just horrible. the shots were so close up because Bruce wasnt even really hitting who he was fighting. i cant stand watching them. i wish they would go for a less realistic and brutal approach to Batmans fighting style and add more martial arts elements to it with longer scenes. like the action scenes in Blade. if they had fighting scenes like that in Batman Begins, that would be perfect. specatacular entertainment all the way through. and another thing, all the fighting scenes made Batman look rather clumsy, especially when he was fighting Ra's on the train.

what do yall think??

I will take those fighting scenes anyday of the year over the disgraceful fighting scenes that Burton used in his first film where he made Bats look like a wuss getting the crap beat out of him by just one goon-the jokers goon at the end,a guy with no special fighting skills at all.That was a diagrace to Batmans character.So I had no problems whatsoever with any of the fighting scenes in the movie.

i think they were filmed in a way where it was hard to tell what was going on. Like say if it were written in a book, it would be written from one of the 'bad guys' perspective, where the audience knows only what the 'bad guys' know. and they have no idea what is going on, except something is kicking and beating them up in a blur.

as for Ra's fight on the train, it was a struggle, i guess its hard to stand up on a train or...monorail, moving at top-speed, in a batsuit

Originally posted by Mr Parker
I will take those fighting scenes anyday of the year over the disgraceful fighting scenes that Burton used in his first film where he made Bats look like a wuss getting the crap beat out of him by just one goon-the jokers goon at the end,a guy with no special fighting skills at all.That was a diagrace to Batmans character.So I had no problems whatsoever with any of the fighting scenes in the movie.

omg i know. i hated that too, that black guy totally just made Batman his b*tch. that royally pissed me off. i mean, c'mon hes Batman hes supposed to be able to take on at least 4 goons at once and one beats him h2h??!?! gimme a break.

I know.what amazes me is the ignorance I have seen so many people display over the years saying stupid crap like-The Guy just crashed his plane,he was hurt give him a break.Thats a poor and laughable excuse because its not like he was seriously injured with a broken leg and two broken arms or something like that-now if THAT had been the case I would not have minded him getting smacked around like that.But come on,he was hardly seriously wounded,he was walking up the stairs at a brisk and quick pace which is something you could not do if you were seriously wonded like they all like to make him out to be. Thank god for Nolan.He showed Batmans true martial arts fighting skills,how Batman is capable of beating up at least 4 or 5 guys at one time.The Batman from the comics could have easily beat that guy effortlessly blindfolded.Nice to see a director like Nolan who did his homework and understood Batmans character.

very well said mr parker

Ugh, no. Batman movies should not become martial arts films; he may be one of the greatest martial artists in the DCU, but there's a reason that he only has one recurring "martial artist villain" (and Shiva appears so rarely, I hesitate to call her recurring).

I think they were probably handled in the best way possible; he's a guy in a Bat suit beating up ninjas, and I don't see how they could have shown that clearly without turning it into a Jet Li film.

Originally posted by braz
thats all that was lacking in Batman Begins. everything else was great but the fighting scenes sucked. completely incomprehensible. i mean, the one with the 4 ninjas wasnt that bad, but the beginning one in the jail cell in Bhutan and the fighting scene at the docks, were just horrible. the shots were so close up because Bruce wasnt even really hitting who he was fighting. i cant stand watching them. i wish they would go for a less realistic and brutal approach to Batmans fighting style and add more martial arts elements to it with longer scenes. like the action scenes in Blade. if they had fighting scenes like that in Batman Begins, that would be perfect. specatacular entertainment all the way through. and another thing, all the fighting scenes made Batman look rather clumsy, especially when he was fighting Ra's on the train.

what do yall think??

I agree, but I liked the last fight with Ra. It was scrappy and brutal. Like some guy was saying, on a train you dont have much room so how the fight happened in the film is probably how it would be for real.

At the sametime I think they were trying to create some sort of a effect. Like the fight at the docks instead of seeing losts of details of him fighting lots of guys, it made batman seem like a blur of movement. Eventhough the docks fight did not show much I kinda liked it, but yes I wish the fight scenes were better.

P.S. Mr Parker. Spiderman is not the worst comic book movie ever made, Captain America is.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I agree, but I liked the last fight with Ra. It was scrappy and brutal. Like some guy was saying, on a train you dont have much room so how the fight happened in the film is probably how it would be for real.

At the sametime I think they were trying to create some sort of a effect. Like the fight at the docks instead of seeing losts of details of him fighting lots of guys, it made batman seem like a blur of movement. Eventhough the docks fight did not show much I kinda liked it, but yes I wish the fight scenes were better.

P.S. Mr Parker. Spiderman is not the worst comic book movie ever made, Captain America is.

yea i guess it would be kinda hard to stand and fight on a monorail train like they did. and it was a pretty good fight. both were takin their hits and recieving them.
and yea, i can also see what effect they were going for on the docks, to show Batmans incredible speed when hes fighting to make him look just like a blur. cuz thats most likely literally how fast you would have to move to take out that many people at once and he did it, and it was incredible. i just wish the shots werent so close up and short so u could see the whole thing happening. that wouldve been really cool

No, the film is fine as it is...no need to change anything.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No, the film is fine as it is...no need to change anything.



no. not so much. 'fraid not.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No, the film is fine as it is...no need to change anything.

Yeah as far as the fight scenes go the film is fine.No question about that. So there is definetely no need to change anything as far as the fight scenes go.

meh, they were ok. real intense for sure. im just saying. they couldve been better.

Fight scenes sucked.

Could hardly tell what the hell was going on in them. Terrible camera work.

Originally posted by braz
meh, they were ok. real intense for sure. im just saying. they couldve been better.

Well maybe you'll get your wish for that in the sequal.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
Well maybe you'll get your wish for that in the sequal.

yea, hopefully, that would make it perfect. i dont really want them to change how it was choreographed tho, just how it was shot. the shots in Batman Begins were way too up close and short and blurry. like i said u couldnt tell what was happening really. i just want em to move the camera back some and make the scenes longer.

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Fight scenes sucked.

Could hardly tell what the hell was going on in them. Terrible camera work.

the point of the camera work, was to show how the villains have no idea what the hell is going on. cuz thats what happened. he kicked all their asses in no time and, ofcourse if that happened to me, i would be like "wtf?!" you understand? like if superman was fighting really fast, how do you show that? do you show him clearly? or is it somehwat of a blur??

by the way, how dare you.

Originally posted by Silverstein
the point of the camera work, was to show how the villains have no idea what the hell is going on. cuz thats what happened. he kicked all their asses in no time and, ofcourse if that happened to me, i would be like "wtf?!" you understand?

I understand. But it still sucked.

I don't want to see what the bad guys see. I want to see the action properly. Not some half assed shoddy camera zipping all over the place, showing us random glimpses of legs, arms, capes etc flailing everywhere.



Watch the Superman movies and you'll see. At least you can see what the hell he's doing.



How dare I what??

Well, if you do dig films with spectacular fight scenes rather than story telling then by all means stick with Spiderman flicks or any other Marvel movies like FF and Xmen. Or if you want to see fight scenes in a Batman film then by all means rent Batman and Robin and case over.

other than the fact that the movies are practically all about Wolverine,storywise the first two xmen movies arent bad.and dont forget the Burton/Schumacher Batman movies in there as well if you just want spectacular fight scenes rather than good story telling.

^the fight scenes in the Burton films were better IMO, because they were actually comprehensible but they were kinda stiffish and not real quick and realistic like the ones on BB. just alot of choreographed moves and what not. and ionno about the schumacher films, dont remember cuz i was little n now i dont feel like bothering with those for obvious reasons
but honestly, id like to see both in one if possible, good story telling(great actually) with killer fight scenes, that would make the ult Batman movie and i HOPE so bad they do that with the Dark Knight, which will be phenomenal anyway with the new Joker.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Well, if you do dig films with spectacular fight scenes rather than story telling then by all means stick with Spiderman flicks or any other Marvel movies like FF and Xmen. Or if you want to see fight scenes in a Batman film then by all means rent Batman and Robin and case over.



Yeah, heaven forbid we should get a movie with spectacular fight scenes AND good storytelling.

I liked those fight scenes in batman begins. Could be better? , yes, but it was much more close to the character than any other fight scene in the four previous crap movies. Batman is like a shadow, a misterious and sinister figure and those fast fight scenes are trying to give us that mistery sense of the character.

Now , in the sequel, batman is a stabilished character, and maybe the fight scenes will be different.

Yeh. People seem to want Jet Li or something, but it really wouldn't fit the tone of the movie.

Youre talking about the greatest super hero movie ever. Nothing needs changing in this movie. All future super hero movies should try to top this movie, which probally wont happen any way.

Originally posted by JediMasterLuke5
Youre talking about the greatest super hero movie ever. Nothing needs changing in this movie. All future super hero movies should try to top this movie, which probally wont happen any way.

very true, it is the greatest. and im not saying the movie sucked just cuz of the fight scenes, i still thought the movie was absolutely phenomenal. and i actually liked the scenes in a certain way, because like that one guy said, Batman is mysterious and in the comics hes been known to move so quick that he can disarm multiple men with guns just through his quickness alone, and i think Batman Begins really tried to stay loyal to that and by having quick fighting scenes it really flexes Batmans true physical prowess that was lacking in the first four films. like i said, i just wish they were a little more comprehensible. but hey, i guess u cant always get what ya want.

The fight scenes are terrible, choppy, and just pointless for a Batman movie. Why put them in if they are that bad?

Martial arts and his agility is his main weapon when disarming and taking out criminals. If we just get the camera zoomed in and chopping fight scenes into a kind of blurry blackness then how are meant to see what he can do? Staged fights can still be done with elements of realism, there's no need for this cloak and dagger stealth action- it's just boring.

Ditto.

Originally posted by Doc Ock


Yeah, heaven forbid we should get a movie with spectacular fight scenes AND good storytelling.

Which neither the Schumacher Batman films and Spiderman franchise even had.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Which neither the Schumacher Batman films and Spiderman franchise even had.

Burtons versions also.

The bad fighting in all the films is mainly the fault of the costume... I mean in the comics we are led to believe he wears something flexible but strong-in the movies its movement -restricting rubber which I guess looks dark and brooding but actually not the best material to work with when considering what the character does.I don't think any actor could wear what they wear and execute a perfect kick or an agile movement.

In the Spider-Man film he had the movement because of the flexibility of the costume he just didn't do anything interesting with it.

Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
The bad fighting in all the films is mainly the fault of the costume... I mean in the comics we are led to believe he wears something flexible but strong-in the movies its movement -restricting rubber which I guess looks dark and brooding but actually not the best material to work with when considering what the character does.I don't think any actor could wear what they wear and execute a perfect kick or an agile movement.

Booyah. Batman cant' move... that's why all the shots were close up and quick flashes of short simple movements... it works because sometimes Batman needs to fight like that, but ALL the time? No, my friends, it seems Hollywood is incapable of making armored-looking material that allows the actor to move convincingly, and all of Batman's "agility" likes in camera tricks.

That's fine for some, but in persuit of the perfect movie, we need to admit that Batman Begins had lacking fight scenes. It would behoove the costumers to improve their processes and loosen up the joints as well as use lighter materials that would allow at least stuntman to do a convincing sidestep or reversal... "less is more" got worn out at the dock scene, imho.

The idea that we will NEVER see Batman give anyone a combo or do a convincing kick... heck, even a knee... that's kinda sad, and it IS a limitation of the great Begins franchise.

Originally posted by Hypester
Booyah. Batman cant' move... that's why all the shots were close up and quick flashes of short simple movements... it works because sometimes Batman needs to fight like that, but ALL the time? No, my friends, it seems Hollywood is incapable of making armored-looking material that allows the actor to move convincingly, and all of Batman's "agility" likes in camera tricks.

That's fine for some, but in persuit of the perfect movie, we need to admit that Batman Begins had lacking fight scenes. It would behoove the costumers to improve their processes and loosen up the joints as well as use lighter materials that would allow at least stuntman to do a convincing sidestep or reversal... "less is more" got worn out at the dock scene, imho.

The idea that we will NEVER see Batman give anyone a combo or do a convincing kick... heck, even a knee... that's kinda sad, and it IS a limitation of the great Begins franchise.

indeed

i just hope Nolan takes a different approach on the fighting scenes in this next one, cuz he said in Begins that he wanted a more brutal kind of fighting w/o eastern style moves saying it was 'dancelike' which is all what we wanna see, i mean thats entertaining. we dont wanna see a quarter second flash of a right hook and then two other guys falling on the ground for some reason u cant tell because of the camera view. we want agile moves, some Blade action, action scenes like THAT. exactly. i loved the fight scenes on Blade.

Originally posted by braz
indeed

i just hope Nolan takes a different approach on the fighting scenes in this next one, cuz he said in Begins that he wanted a more brutal kind of fighting w/o eastern style moves saying it was 'dancelike' which is all what we wanna see, i mean thats entertaining. we dont wanna see a quarter second flash of a right hook and then two other guys falling on the ground for some reason u cant tell because of the camera view. we want agile moves, some Blade action, action scenes like THAT. exactly. i loved the fight scenes on Blade.

I feel you, but I wouldn't even need to go that far... if we could see the process of Bruce's brutal non-dancelike fighting, then that'd be cool too. But as is we have short one-second flashes and non-sequitor beat em ups... like a comic book, not like live action. We should be having to connect the dots for EVERY single costumed fighting scene in begins... they should all be as clear and decipherable as the first one in the prison. Yes it was brutal and short, but you knew exactly who was getting hit and with what... that kind of camera work and editing should be used for all fight scenes...

But it requires a costume that allows at least the stuntman to move. Make it so.

Originally posted by Hypester
I feel you, but I wouldn't even need to go that far... if we could see the process of Bruce's brutal non-dancelike fighting, then that'd be cool too. But as is we have short one-second flashes and non-sequitor beat em ups... like a comic book, not like live action. We should be having to connect the dots for EVERY single costumed fighting scene in begins... they should all be as clear and decipherable as the first one in the prison. Yes it was brutal and short, but you knew exactly who was getting hit and with what... that kind of camera work and editing should be used for all fight scenes...

But it requires a costume that allows at least the stuntman to move. Make it so.

tru

I agree that Batman Begins needed better fighting scenes. Yes the concept was that when Batman strikes it was to be shown exactly as how the bad guys see it, but it made the action suffer by doing so. Way too quick cut scenes that were zoomed in too close IMO.

Probably the best example of how it was done right was in Batman Returns. His fights with the Penguin's gang, his fights with Catwoman, all of them were the best representation of how it can look plausible while still maintaining some good comic-book action kind of feel.

I like the idea that Batman was able to kick the crap out of the ninja's so easily. We know how cool it was to see Bruce Wayne in action, when Lady Shiva bought him back from the "dead," in 94. Its hard to say whether the fighting technique, in Batman Begins, was carp, beacuse it was soooo poorly filmed. I watched the second Batman Begins DVD, and I have to hand it to the invention of a new style. In fact it looks great. The idea of adaption to style, and fighting so unorthidox. Kind reminds me of Bruce Lee's philosphy on Jeet Kune Do. However, as far as screen apearance, the fight sceens really looked crapish. Its its such a shame, because the rest of the flick was good. Didn't like that Ras Al Ghul was Bruce Waynes Teacher though, but I guess you can't win'em all.

BB had great fight scenes. Which were enough to satiate my appetite. My sources tell me that The Dark Knight will have pretty of action and fight scenes.