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Who is the most powerful? ( full potential)
Richard Franklins
Scarlet Witch
Mad Jim Jaspers
Hyperion
Jean( Phoenix Force)
Protues
Magneto
Nate Grey
or any others that u think

with their own power and not empowered by an outside fource ?...

my pick is Mister M

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/df/Districtx4.jpg

Originally posted by complexbrother
with their own power and not empowered by an outside fource ?...

my pick is Mister M

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/df/Districtx4.jpg

Who dat?

Oh yeah forgot about him.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Who dat? his powers are very similiar to Molecule Man's powers

Honestly, either Jean or Franklin

Although, Phoneix fanboys won't admit it.

Phoniex is nowhere as powerful as Eternity

Originally posted by trolly_crouchjr
Who is the most powerful? ( full potential)
Richard Franklins
Scarlet Witch
Mad Jim Jaspers
Hyperion
Jean( Phoenix Force)
Protues
Magneto
Nate Grey
or any others that u think

You can also put Hyperstorm on the list. He was supposed to be more powerful than Franklin Richards.

Similar to Owen Reece, Mr. M has complete control over molecules. This means that virtually any conceivable thing can be accomplished. Thus far, M has displayed: repair of machinery, intangibility, energy manipulation, lightning, fire, and explosive energy generation, healing injuries either in himself or others, removal or augmentation of mutant abilities, creation of force fields, and creation and evolution of lesser life forms. These powers have classified him as a Omega-level mutant.

Originally posted by trolly_crouchjr
Who is the most powerful? ( full potential)
Richard Franklins
Scarlet Witch
Mad Jim Jaspers
Hyperion
Jean( Phoenix Force)
Protues
Magneto
Nate Grey
or any others that u think

True Mutants:

Franklin Richards is supposed to be THE most powerful being in the Universe. Or has the potential to become the most powerful.
Mr. M is up there.
Nate Grey

Mutants with powers that are not totally "Mutant" powers:

Jean Grey's Pheonix powers are not totally "mutant" powers either.
Hyperstorm may be augmenting his powers in certain ways. So, they may not be totally "mutant" powers.

Hyperion is supposed to be an Eternal, not a mutant.

"Alien" mutants:

Horde, played with the X-Men, like they were babies. Annual #11.
Thanos is supposed to be a mutant Titan Eternal.
Talos the Tamed, Skrull mutant. Beat the Hulk.

it's out of mr m and franklin mr m is just as powerful as molecule man but franklin is a reality warper of an unbeliveable degree

Originally posted by lando005
it's out of mr m and franklin mr m is just as powerful as molecule man but franklin is a reality warper of an unbeliveable degree Mr. M is powerful but realistically his feats are nowhere near Molecule Man's, he really hasnt been too impressive thus far.

and Franklyn at full potential=Celestial level

To date Franklyn has done much more on pannel, thats why he is my top dog .....

Manbearpig FTW!

Wanda says no more mutants?( not taking sides)

and she didn't affect Mr M ( I think he is more powerful than her)




BTW it's funny how Wanda has never been listed as an omega level mutant. just somthing to think about .

Would Kid Omega or Xavier win if they fought?

Originally posted by Horrificus

Jean Grey's Pheonix powers are not totally "mutant" powers either.


How so?

Catch up with continuity. As was originally the case back in the late 70's/early 80's and as is currently continuity thanks to Grant Morrissons New X-men and Paks Endsong to be a Phoenix, to be one with the life force of creation is a mutation.

Originally posted by complexbrother
and she didn't affect Mr M ( I think he is more powerful than her)

Nor did she affect a bunch of other mutants, including Omegas and non-Omegas alike.

My top 3 are as follows:

Wanda
Hyperstorm
Mr. M

The pinnacle of mutation is Phoenix. It is referred to on panel as the "ultimate mutation". Telekinetic godhood which is the greatest power of these Phoenixes allows the telekinetic manipulation of matter and energy at a sub atomic level and can be applied at a greater range than any of the powers mentioned in this thread. (Jean for example materialized the 616 universe in the white hot room, holding it in the palm of her hand)

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
How so?

Catch up with continuity. As was originally the case back in the late 70's/early 80's and as is currently continuity thanks to Grant Morrissons New X-men and Paks Endsong to be a Phoenix, to be one with the life force of creation is a mutation.

That is a different kind of mutation. She was not born with the Pheonix Force. She may have had some characteristic that allowed for the transformation, but she was not born with that potential power IN HER, as other Omega's are.

If we are talking about power that enters a mutant from an outside source, as being part of the group in question, then you opne the flood gates for other characters to join the ranks. Such as Hulk, Molecule Man, etc. Because it can, and has been argued that their conditions cannot be duplicated exactly in other humans, because these guys had a certain characteristic, or flaw or asset in their genetic make-up that worked hand in hand with whatever mutated them.

Originally posted by Horrificus
That is a different kind of mutation. She was not born with the Pheonix Force. She may have had some characteristic that allowed for the transformation, but she was not born with that potential power IN HER, as other Omega's are.

If we are talking about power that enters a mutant from an outside source, as being part of the group in question, then you opne the flood gates for other characters to join the ranks. Such as Hulk, Molecule Man, etc. Because it can, and has been argued that their conditions cannot be duplicated exactly in other humans, because these guys had a certain characteristic, or flaw or asset in their genetic make-up that worked hand in hand with whatever mutated them.

Youre again not up to date with continuity which is why you are getting confused here. Jeans mutant power is to wield the Phoenix Force. She always been a Phoenix , however she has not always wielded cosmic power levels. That came with time and training. It is established in continuity as a mutation to be a Phoenix. A mutation that only certain omegas can realise.

This thread is about mutants and their powers. Not being the threadmaker, you cannot tailor it to exclude Jean. Jean as Phoenix applies.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Horrificus
That is a different kind of mutation. She was not born with the Pheonix Force. She may have had some characteristic that allowed for the transformation, but she was not born with that potential power IN HER, as other Omega's are.

If we are talking about power that enters a mutant from an outside source, as being part of the group in question, then you opne the flood gates for other characters to join the ranks. Such as Hulk, Molecule Man, etc. Because it can, and has been argued that their conditions cannot be duplicated exactly in other humans, because these guys had a certain characteristic, or flaw or asset in their genetic make-up that worked hand in hand with whatever mutated them.

^^^ a thinking man's awnser . props to you.

Originally posted by Horrificus
That is a different kind of mutation. She was not born with the Pheonix Force. She may have had some characteristic that allowed for the transformation, but she was not born with that potential power IN HER, as other Omega's are.

She was born with such potential, that was her potential all along, to wield the Phoenix Force.

and btw I made this thread a while ago:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=419703

no bigge though

Sorry for the copy

Without including Jean, the most powerful mutant on panel would be Jim Jaspers. He was a reality warper of a greater scale than the Scarlet Witch. His reality warp was conclusively universal and it was continually growing, threatening the multiverse itself at full expansion.

In comparison Roma said Wandas reality warp was global. Even you argued that it was universal, her reality warp never affected anywhere outside of 616 directly and never threatened to unlike Jasper's. The Chaos Wave was something Wandas warp triggered by accidentally causing a dimensional tear whilst warping reality. Thats different.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Without including Jean, the most powerful mutant on panel would be Jim Jaspers. He was a reality warper of a greater scale than the Scarlet Witch. His reality warp was conclusively universal and it was continually growing, threatening the multiverse itself at full expansion.

In comparison Roma said Wandas reality warp was global. Even you argued that it was universal, her reality warp never affected anywhere outside of 616 directly and never threatened to unlike Jasper's. The Chaos Wave was something Wandas warp triggered by accidentally causing a dimensional tear whilst warping reality. Thats different.

No , INCLUDING Jean, Jim Jaspers is the most powerful mutant.

bio stats on Jean Grey's powers for GalacticStorm

Powers
Jean Grey possessed telepathic powers enabling her to read minds, project her thoughts into the minds of others, initiate astral travel, and mentally stun opponents with pure psionic force, among other talents. She also possessed telekinesis, allowing her to levitate and manipulate objects and others, generate force fields, fly, and stimulate heat molecules to generate concussive blasts.
Her powers were magnified to near-infinite levels while she served as an avatar for the cosmic Phoenix Force. She was able to manipulate matter and energy on a molecular scale, although this varied on the Force's status and how much power it chose to allocate to her.

bio stats for the Phonix Force
http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/a/a5/Phoenix_force.jpg
Powers
The Phoenix Force is an immortal, indestructible, and mutable manifestation of the prime universal force of life, derived from the psyches of all living beings. In its natural state, this life-cycle is enough to sustain the Force. However, in order to manifest itself on the physical plane, the Force must tap into the near limitless source of energy provided by life-force reserved for future generations, thus denying them existence. The Force can wield this energy to project beams of immense concussive force, as well as transmigrate throughout time and space by folding its energy back into itself, causing it to collapse akin to a black hole, then it reforms itself upon reaching its destination, like the Phoenix of Earth legend.
While possessing a human host, the Force is able to augment any super-powers they have to vastly higher levels.

source ...
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Phoenix_Force (marvel's own site, can't argue with this)

Originally posted by complexbrother


^^^ a thinking man's awnser . props to you.

Considering that his opening statement was conclusively wrong, i wouldnt say so myself. Jean was always the Phoenix. Its not some outside force that possesses her sometimes, its her mutant power to wield the Phoenix Force. The degree of her power is dependent on whether she is needed to perform Phoenix work. However she is and always has been a Phoenix.

Originally posted by complexbrother
bio stats on Jean Grey's powers for GalacticStorm

Her powers were magnified to near-infinite levels while she served as an avatar for the cosmic Phoenix Force. She was able to manipulate matter and energy on a molecular scale, although this varied on the Force's status and how much power it chose to allocate to her.


It's in writing now dammit , the b*tch is a mid to high tp-er . The rest is up to the puppeteer pulling her strings. The 'Jenova' to her Sephiroth (though putting Jeans name next to Sephiroths is a sin to me)

Originally posted by grey fox
No , INCLUDING Jean, Jim Jaspers is the most powerful mutant.

Nope. Its stated that to be a Phoenix is the ultimate mutation. Dont let your well known hatred for the character cause you to state falsities.

Jaspers greatest feat was universal, however he had the potential to gradually affect the rest of the multiverse. Jean has manipulated an entire reality down to its component parts just like that within the palm of her hand.

Jean has cut away at the very substance of time itself, amputating the future thereby putting Eternity on his death bed. A situation she later rectified. No being has ever been shown to be able to do that.

Jean contained the proven multiversal power of the M'kraan crystal.

There is no mutant greater than Jean Grey my friend.

Originally posted by grey fox
It's in writing now dammit , the b*tch is a mid to high tp-er . The rest is up to the puppeteer pulling her strings. The 'Jenova' to her Sephiroth (though putting Jeans name next to Sephiroths is a sin to me)

Jean Grey is the avatar (look up the definition of the word) of the Phoenix Force. She is literally the Force in physical form. The Phoenix Force bio goes some way to illustrate this recent on panel clarification where it states that she is a part of the Force itself.

Think of her as an MBody of it.

How does this in any way change what ive said?

The bio supports that Jean is a Phoenix, she always has the potential to wield the power but wielding it is dependent on her being needed. Regardless its still her mutation to woeld this power. Changes not a thing.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nope. Its stated that to be a Phoenix is the ultimate mutation. Dont let your well known hatred for the character cause you to state falsities.

Jaspers greatest feat was universal, however he had the potential to gradually affect the rest of the multiverse. Jean has manipulated an entire reality down to its component parts just like that within the palm of her hand.

Jean has cut away at the very substance of time itself, amputating the future thereby putting Eternity on his death bed. A situation she later rectified. No being has ever been shown to be able to do that.

Jean contained the proven multiversal power of the M'kraan crystal.

There is no mutant greater than Jean Grey my friend.

Bah , my petty hatred is put aside for this. The phoenix is the ultimate potential you say , she is what every mutant should become correct.

A simple yes or no will do.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Jean Grey is the avatar (look up the definition of the word) of the Phoenix Force. She is literally the Force in physical form. The Phoenix Force bio goes some way to illustrate this recent on panel clarification where it states that she is a part of the Force itself.

Think of her as an MBody of it.

How does this in any way change what ive said?

The bio supports that Jean is a Phoenix, she always has the potential to wield the power but wielding it is dependent on her being needed. Regardless its still her mutation to woeld this power. Changes not a thing.

No it states she can wield the power of a SEPERATE ENTITY. Hell if were going to include phoenix why not include Ghost rider. He uses a 'separate entity' to enhance his powers.

Originally posted by grey fox
Bah , my petty hatred is put aside for this. The phoenix is the ultimate potential you say , she is what every mutant should become correct.

A simple yes or no will do.

The Phoenix is stated to be the "ultimate mutation" and heralded as the endpoint in evolution. That is why only OMEGA mutants can successfully wield the power. Omegas have the potential to reach this endpoint only a few omegas such as Jean, Quentin and Rachel have realized this potential.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Phoenix is stated to be the "ultimate mutation" and heralded as the endpoint in evolution. That is why only OMEGA mutants can successfully wield the power. Omegas have the potential to reach this endpoint only a few omegas such as Jean, Quentin and Rachel have realized this potential.

Then that's a lie.

Why ?

She's not the most powerful.

Jim Jaspers can become OMNIVERSAL. Jean Cannot. Jim Jaspers was simply restricted by two things. Time and plot.

If he had simply waited and bided his time then he would have literally become the worlds most powerful mutant in existence.

Originally posted by grey fox
No it states she can wield the power of a SEPERATE ENTITY. Hell if were going to include phoenix why not include Ghost rider. He uses a 'separate entity' to enhance his powers.

It doesnt state that at all. It makes out Phoenix to be a separate entity whilst at the same time stating that Jean is a part of the Phoenix Force itself.

What youre not understanding is that Jean is an MBody of the Force, its favoured physical form, but not its only physical form. She is not the sum total of the Force, but its prime part, nevertheless that is why the bio has a story for the Phoenix Force whilst taking time out to note that Jean is actually a part of the Force.

Originally posted by grey fox
Then that's a lie.

Why ?

She's not the most powerful.

Jim Jaspers can become OMNIVERSAL. Jean Cannot. Jim Jaspers was simply restricted by two things. Time and plot.

If he had simply waited and bided his time then he would have literally become the worlds most powerful mutant in existence.
You can try Grey Fox but it just won't work.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It doesnt state that at all. It makes out Phoenix to be a separate entity whilst at the same time stating that Jean is a part of the Phoenix Force itself.

What youre not understanding is that Jean is an MBody of the Force, its favoured physical form, but not its only physical form. She is not the sum total of the Force, but its prime part, nevertheless that is why the bio has a story for the Phoenix Force whilst taking time out to note that Jean is actually a part of the Force.

You state that it is part of her , yet you continuously refer to it as a a 'it' therefore it being a SEPARATE ENTITY.

Originally posted by grey fox
Then that's a lie.

Why ?

She's not the most powerful.

Jim Jaspers can become OMNIVERSAL. Jean Cannot. Jim Jaspers was simply restricted by two things. Time and plot.

If he had simply waited and bided his time then he would have literally become the worlds most powerful mutant in existence.

Not through on panel demonstration my friend. What was speculated about the character and what he actually did on panel are two very different things. On panel he has performed nothing nearly on par with Jean.

At the end of the day, Jaspers power is limited to reality. Beyond reality he is completely powerless. Fury took advantage of this weakness and sniped him

http://f5.putfile.com/5/14414052132-thumb.gif

http://f5.putfile.com/5/14414064019-thumb.gif

http://f5.putfile.com/5/14414084181-thumb.gif

Outside of reality and within Jean has power because she is one with the power that initiates reality. He is not on Jeans level my friend. Having the potential to do great things isnt enough.

I know youre British and youre repping for the Brit characters but this is going too far my friend

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not through on panel demonstration my friend. What was speculated about the character and what he actually did on panel are two very different things. On panel he has performed nothing nearly on par with Jean.

At the end of the day, Jaspers power is limited to reality. Beyond reality he is completely powerless. Fury took advantage of this weakness and sniped him

http://f5.putfile.com/5/14414052132-thumb.gif

http://f5.putfile.com/5/14414064019-thumb.gif

http://f5.putfile.com/5/14414084181-thumb.gif

Outside of reality and within Jean has power because she is one with the power that initiates reality. He is not on Jeans level my friend. Having the potential to do great things isnt enough.

I know youre British and youre repping for the Brit characters but this is going too far my friend

No , nationality doesn't concern me. I just vouch for the most powerful .

Unfortunately this means Jaspers turns your focus of obsession into a frog before stamping upon her.

Originally posted by grey fox
You state that it is part of her , yet you continuously refer to it as a a 'it' therefore it being a SEPARATE ENTITY.

What youre not getting my friend, what seems to be totally bypassing your faculties is the fact that Jean is literally the Phoenix Force. LITERALLY. She is a segment of the Force in human form. An avatar. However as she is not the sum total of the Force that means it is at the same time separate. However as part of the Force, the power she wields is her own. The greater Consciousness just dictates how and when this segment of itself can use the power.

Liken the Phoenix to Multiple Man and Jean as one of its many duplicates. Jean is both separate and one with Phoenix at the same time.

Understand?

Hope we're clear now?

Originally posted by grey fox
No , nationality doesn't concern me. I just vouch for the most powerful .

Unfortunately this means Jaspers turns your focus of obsession into a frog before stamping upon her.

Jean has demonstrated greater control of reality my friend so that isnt going to happen anytime soon. That which Jaspers both manipulates and depends on (reality) to be anything of note is something Jean can hold in its entirety in the palm of her hand, having demonstrated she can break it down to its component parts.

Jean possesses vast power both within and without reality. She is classified in CURRENT continuity as "the ultimate mutation" (a point some people would do well to keep in mind )

Outside of the reality which Jeans power brings about Jaspers is a victim:

http://f5.putfile.com/5/14414052132-thumb.gif

http://f5.putfile.com/5/14414064019-thumb.gif

http://f5.putfile.com/5/14414084181-thumb.gif

Originally posted by Horrificus

Jean Grey's Pheonix powers are not totally "mutant" powers either.
Hyperstorm may be augmenting his powers in certain ways. So, they may not be totally "mutant" powers.
You had to go n get him started damn you!

Originally posted by outavodka
You had to go n get him started damn you!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
im serious. I mean come on you never get tired of the Jean/phoenix ranting???

Originally posted by outavodka
im seriuos. I mean come on you never get tired of the Jean/phoenix ranting???

I'll carry on as long as people try to promote misconceptions and outdated ideas about the character.

I only respond to posts, i rarely if ever create threads so i believe that comment is misdirected.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I'll carry on as long as people try to promote misconceptions and outdated ideas about the character.

I only respond to posts, i rarely if ever create threads so i believe that comment is misdirected. granted yet you stand up for your idea like its your wife, or or freedom for christ sakes. I dun hate you for it just question your motives for your ever-hanping struggle to ironically keep the phoenix alive, lol

i just knew this would turn into a "PF vs thread" however..isnt franklyn supposed to replace eternity, or the celstials or something like that?... Cant recall, but wow Jim Jaspers is way up there tho. he does his thing under his own steam, so does franklyn, but hyperstorm was more powerful than all of them combined..so much so that, his energies were able to feed Galactus of that timeline, and was described as an "endless supply of raw energy"

Jean has to tap into the PF to surpass ppl in general..and im a big fan of phoenix but i always understood it as the PF chooses who it wants to be its avatar..i dont think i would go as far as to say that she literally "is" the PF, more so than a manifestation. but since its the most essential force in the universe it cant be beat, so if we're talking about mtuants at the fullest potential

my list:

Jean(PWC)
Hyperstorm
Franklin
Jaspers
Mr.M
Vulcan/Godlike Cable
Nate Grey
Q. Quire(he's still young,only time will tell how far he'll bump up the list)
Rachel Summers

All other omegas are irrelevant.. then id end with
Scarlet witch
Magento
Exodus as the most powerful alphas..... also i know that optimally rachel should be higher up as she has actually, successfully hosted the PF b4, but the thing is she has been at this for while now and she's been lazy with developing her powers, and let all others creep by her.

also technically Thanos is a mutant too

i agree with jaro's list but u cant forget new son eh...eh...lol
I also think with a little time,PIS-evolution Bishop will turn into a super energy manipulator, sorta like how mystique is supermorphing now. I seriously think its cuz of the less mutants around "Thanks Wanda...that b*tch" alot of mutans are going to start jumpstarting new powers/evolution out the ass. just wait and see. Cyke is gona lose the visor, yet keep red eyes, Iceman learns more tricks with vapor/hydro/ice kentics, Beast goes thru a another mutation. I mean anything just wait and see.

At full potential X-man is strongest

Originally posted by outavodka
i agree with jaro's list but u cant forget new son eh...eh...lol
I also think with a little time,PIS-evolution Bishop will turn into a super energy manipulator, sorta like how mystique is supermorphing now. I seriously think its cuz of the less mutants around "Thanks Wanda...that b*tch" alot of mutans are going to start jumpstarting new powers/evolution out the ass. just wait and see. Cyke is gona lose the visor, yet keep red eyes, Iceman learns more tricks with vapor/hydro/ice kentics, Beast goes thru a another mutation. I mean anything just wait and see.

I agree. Mutants are getting way too powerful. Gambit can control all forms of kinetic energy. Jubilee is going to start making atoms explode. Havok is going to have absolute control over cosmic energy. Leech is going to be able to absorb the powers of any being anywhere. It's getting ridiculous.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
I agree. Mutants are getting way too powerful. Gambit can control all forms of kinetic energy. Jubilee is going to start making atoms explode. Havok is going to have absolute control over cosmic energy. Leech is going to be able to absorb the powers of any being anywhere. It's getting ridiculous.

They are upgrading all mutants, excpet Apocalypse. With powers he has, they could make him unstoppable and a f*ucking beast.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Jaspers greatest feat was universal,


Jim Jaspers CREATED his OWN UNIVERSE!

Something neither Jean as the Whte Phoenix of the Crown nor the actual Phoenix Force has EVER done On Panel


"a crooked GOD reviews his Paradise of ruins"
http://img314.imageshack.us/img314/4454/j9an4.th.jpg

"He is lonely, but he is also GOD
http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/8739/j10ig8.th.jpg

"He MAKES Friends easily"
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/7577/j11qk3.th.jpg

Mad Jim jaspers in a Universe he CREATED
http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/7223/m18gy5.th.jpg

http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/2392/m19zi6.th.jpg


Jim completely WARPED the 238 Universe

Merlin says, "I stretched your sanity to the breaking point to prepare you for a Universe (238) Reduced to Idiocy" the Omniversal Tribune Erased 238.

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/2566/m16hl3.th.jpg

Merlin says about Cap. Britain, "I sent you to a lesser menace (Jaspers 238) and you were Killed"



Originally posted by GalacticStorm
however he had the potential to gradually affect the rest of the multiverse.

Ofcourse you would downplay it, but unfortunately for you, I have the Scans of Proof.

"rest of the multi-verse"?

Why don't you try the OMNI-VERSE!


Jim Japers was an OMNI-VERSAL Threat

http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/2042/j7in7.th.jpg


"Merlin says, "You cannot fail, this version of Japers (616) is too powerful, too dangerous"

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/1219/m17iu3.th.jpg

They had to destroy the entire 238 Universe in order to kill 238 Jaspers,

but 616 Jaspers is "NOT so easily contained, and if he's not stopped, the OMNI-VERSE will fall into Chaos, and a NEW GOD shall play dice with Matter"



Nice try...

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Jean contained the proven multiversal power of the M'kraan crystal.

Jean NEVER contained the NEUTRON Galaxy, which is what could destroy a UNIVERSE (at the time)


When the Lattice of the Mkraan Crystal was REPAIRED by Phoenix, she NEEDED the rest of the X-Men to do it

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/6239/p1ry7.th.jpg


Here Phoenix Tries to FIX the Lattice Alone

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5582/p2ci8.th.jpg


"But it's NOWHERE NEAR good enough"

and Phoenix does NOT "contain" the power of the N-Galaxy that does the destroying.

http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/3673/p3dr0.th.jpg

"a Network of interlocking Stasis Fields NEUTRALIZES the power of the N-Galaxy"....she was only able to knit the interlocking Stasis Fields back together

Phoenix even says, their "ONLY Hope is to Knit the Lattice Back Together BEFORE it PASSES the Point of No Return"


Actually Phoenix was getting ABSORBED by the N-Galaxy

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1362/p312cx5.th.jpg



With the Life-Force of ALL the X-Men she Anchors herself to Reality, to avoid being ABSORBED

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/3395/p4mx6.th.jpg



"the Patterns of her life of the X-Men's LIVES, BECOME ONE with the Lattice"

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/3687/p5ic2.th.jpg



"For ALL Her awesome Power, She CAN'T DO IT ALONE"

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4925/p6ja8.th.jpg

ALL the X-Men gave their LIFE-FORCE to help REPAIR the Lattice.



"The POWER of Her Friends Sing WITHIN Her, as she reenergizes the Lattice"

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1248/p7mg7.th.jpg

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/1821/pzm2.th.jpg

"XAVIER its CROWN and COLOSSUS its BASE"

"EACH X-MAN HAS a PLACE, EACH a purpose Greater than himself or herself"



SO ACCORDING to ISSUE itself, Straight from the WRITER'S Mouth.

XAVIER, COLOSSUS, WOLVERINE, KORSAIR, BANSHEE, CYCLOPS, STORM, and NIGHTCRAWLER, ALL GAVE their LIFE-FORCE to HELP Jean Knit the Lattice Back Together.



After the job is done, Even with the HELP of ALL the X-Men, Phoenix FALLS UNCONSCIOUS from Exhaustion

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/9605/p8gv3.th.jpg



"contained the proven multiversal power of the Mkraan crystal"?

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Please sonny... I don't think so.



Originally posted by GalacticStorm
There is no mutant greater than Jean Grey my friend.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Comes down to Mad Jim Jaspers and Phoenix?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The pinnacle of mutation is Phoenix. It is referred to on panel as the "ultimate mutation". Telekinetic godhood which is the greatest power of these Phoenixes allows the telekinetic manipulation of matter and energy at a sub atomic level and can be applied at a greater range than any of the powers mentioned in this thread. (Jean for example materialized the 616 universe in the white hot room, holding it in the palm of her hand)
If the phoenix is JeanGreys ultimate mutation, how come other people have been Phoenix's?

Does Onslaught count?

Originally posted by bigbran
Does Onslaught count?

You know, if you just hover your mouse over it, the true URL comes up in the grey bar on the bottom of the screen

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
You know, if you just hover your mouse over it, the true URL comes up in the grey bar on the bottom of the screen I bet you still clicked on it, didn't you?

Also, the more you know.

Originally posted by bigbran
I bet you still clicked on it, didn't you?

Also, the more you know.


No.
No, as a matter of fact I didn't.




















































































































































But I did click on a similair link earlier.
B*****d

I'd say the Toad, especially if he's hopping mad.

Defiant1

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
No.
No, as a matter of fact I didn't.




















































































































































But I did click on a similair link earlier.
B*****d

Oops. Double post. ( I posted the same thing twice. Just so Bigbran knows.)

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Oops. Double post. You know you can just edit your last post.

Originally posted by bigbran
You know you can just edit your last post.

I was going to, and to add a note. I quoted it by accident, instead of editing it- and I pressed 'Submit Reply'. When I said double post, I meant I had litterally posted the same thing twice.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Youre again not up to date with continuity which is why you are getting confused here. Jeans mutant power is to wield the Phoenix Force. She always been a Phoenix , however she has not always wielded cosmic power levels. That came with time and training. It is established in continuity as a mutation to be a Phoenix. A mutation that only certain omegas can realise.

This thread is about mutants and their powers. Not being the threadmaker, you cannot tailor it to exclude Jean. Jean as Phoenix applies.

But, the Pheonix Force is not from her. It isn't hers.

If a lifeform develops a "trigger finger", which allows it to use a machine gun that was left on it's planet, that doesn't mean that the lifeform has the mutant power of the machine gun.

Originally posted by bigbran
Does Onslaught count?

I closed it before it started!

In your face!

Mad Jim Jaspers or the Phoenix. Although Jaspers has been more of a threat by feats/time. Wanda was basically retconned into a modern weaker Jaspers. Franklin Richards has frankly never impressed me despite how often he's purported to be incredibly powerful. The rest are nothing special.

I'm curious though; Jaspers is powerless in unspace (outside of reality). However there's nothing to indicate that Jean Grey has power in this region outside of reality. The WHR isn't really outside of reality. The M'Kraan Crystal isn't really outside of reality. Where exactly is Jean taking him, and how does one assume she's actually powered there?

Valiant effort Mr M. Allow me to put right the falsities you present and would love for everyone to subscribe to

For a start, Jim Jaspers did not ever create his own universe. He warped the reality of one. Thats completely different. Its merely twisting the ambient perception of reality to coincide with his own vision, just like Wanda did however on a bigger scale. Reality warpers depend on reality, they are not creators, they are manipulators. Take them outside of it and they are completely powerless.

Spouting on about the SPECULATED POTENTIAL damage Jim Jaspers could have done is irrelevant when he was stopped dead in his tracks by the Fury.

Speculation doesnt equate to an on panel feat. Both Jaspers warped the reality of a universe and it was said they could threaten the rest of creation if their power was allowed to spiral out of control without being confronted. Not good enough.

As for your attempt to demote the M'kraan crystal feat your argument is incrediby poor and illogical as ever.

Jean absorbed the life forces of just Storm and Corsair and she used them to bind herself to reality so she could better apply her power. The rest of the X-men gave her spiritual help, i.e moral support and encouragement as she went about performing the feat.

The X-men present were Colossus, Wolverine, Storm, Cyclops and Banshee.

If you want to try and argue the X-men gave anything but spiritual help then go ahead and make a fool of yourself, but tell me, even if they did give her their power do any of that time have cosmic level power? Do any of that team even have global level power? Given the multiversal power of the crystal, just how significant do you think the X-mens power contribution would be?

Even by your laughable interpretation, Phoenix still would have done 99% of the work, the X-men would have barely registered on the power scales.

My interpretation says Storm and Corsair gave their souls so she could bind herself to the physical plane, the rest of the X-men (Banshee, Cyclops and Colossus) were their in spirit (as the comic states) and provided support and encouragement.

On top of that the restraints on the crystal were breaking away by the second. The crystal was blinking reality in and out of existence as a result. Phoenix re-energised this lattice before knitting it back together. So my previous statement pertaining to Jean containing the power of the crystal was very much correct.

Don't forget that Jim Jaspers was created by Jean since:
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Everything youre reading in 616 comics today is the fruition of Jeans work.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Don't forget that Jim Jaspers was created by Jean since:

Look back to the thread where i stated that line and be embarassed at how poor comprehension has lead you to say such silly things

Not what i meant. Not what my statement should lead anyone with common sense and a speck of smarts to think i meant

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Mad Jim Jaspers or the Phoenix. Although Jaspers has been more of a threat by feats/time. Wanda was basically retconned into a modern weaker Jaspers. Franklin Richards has frankly never impressed me despite how often he's purported to be incredibly powerful. The rest are nothing special.

I'm curious though; Jaspers is powerless in unspace (outside of reality). However there's nothing to indicate that Jean Grey has power in this region outside of reality. The WHR isn't really outside of reality. The M'Kraan Crystal isn't really outside of reality. Where exactly is Jean taking him, and how does one assume she's actually powered there?

The Phoenix Force itself exists simulatneously outside of time and space as well as being one with it. Jeans power comes from her connection to the Force, it does not stem from reality like Jaspers, therefore theres no reason why she would be powerless outside of it.

The M'kraan crystal itself isnt outside of reality, but it is the access point to the white hot room which is.

Franklin Richards is about he most powerful mutant in Marvel

Originally posted by kevdude
Franklin Richards is about he most powerful mutant in Marvel

Not if being a Phoenix is stated to be the ultimate mutation. Not if a Phoenix has considerably greater feats than him on panel.

Both Jean and Jaspers are demonstrably way beyond Franklin. Celestial level power isnt saying much against the likes of them.

Nate Grey Shaman version and Cable at his top was pretty powerful. Even Prof X was impressed.
And also Wanda the Scarlet Witch...
Also Polaris is among the top members
And I agree on Franklin Richards being powerful too...


But if we talk about which mutant uses his/her powers the best :

Professor Charles Xavier
Erik Lansher

NOTE : Wolverine isn't playing a role here...

Well I don't know if id consider her a real 'mutant'. From how I understand it she is connected to the power force of creation itself. Jean has become what everyone on Earth will become someday. Nobody else except her sister is anywhere near her level. Humans by themselves that were birthed with there own powers, they are regular mutants, Frank being in that category is very impressive. And who is Jaspers?

Originally posted by kevdude
Well I don't know if id consider her a real 'mutant'. From how I understand it she is connected to the power force of creation itself. Jean has become what everyone on Earth will become someday. Nobody else except her sister is anywhere near her level. Humans by themselves that were birthed with there own powers, they are regular mutants, Frank being in that category is very impressive. And who is Jaspers?

Jean was born with those powers. She is literally a part of the Phoenix and always has been. THAT is continuity.

Just to restate my earlier example, see the Force as Multiple Man and Jean as one of its duplicates. As she is a part of the Force the power is her own, however as she is not the sum total of the Force the Force is in a way seperate at the same time and the greater froce can direct its smaller segment in the use of its power.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Jean absorbed the life forces of just Storm and Corsair and she used them to bind herself to reality so she could better apply her power. The rest of the X-men gave her spiritual help, i.e moral support and encouragement as she went about performing the feat.

The X-men present were Colossus, Wolverine, Storm, Cyclops and Banshee.

When are you going to STOP LYING!


"For ALL Her awesome Power, She CAN'T DO IT ALONE"

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4925/p6ja8.th.jpg

"AND THEN SUDDENLY, The SPIRITS of the X-MEN are WITH HER , GIVING of THEMSELVES AS STORM and CORSAIR GAVE"


Moral supprt my ASS!!!


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
If you want to try and argue the X-men gave anything but spiritual help then go ahead and make a fool of yourself,

WHO'S the FOOL Now my child?


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Given the multiversal power of the crystal, just how significant do you think the X-mens power contribution would be?

"multiversal power"?

I CHALLENGE You to find the word Multiversal on any page in X-Men v1 #108.


In Jean's vision of what COULD happen...it begins with Stars and Planets being pulled from their orbits
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/174/mk1hv6dx1.th.jpg

"Many Worlds and Many lives will be snuffed out in the twinkling of an eye"
Not exactly the Universe let alone the Multiverse.

"Solar Systems, Clusters, Galaxies, Mega-Galaxies...all plunge helplessly down the gravity well of the Neutron Galaxy"

Not exactly a Universe let alone the Multiverse.

THEN...their mass adding to it's gravity, gravity attracting more mass...UNTIL reality itself BEGINS to tear apart.

http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/1368/mk2gc7yv5.th.jpg

It will go from Solar Systems to Mega-Galaxies before reality BEGINS to tear.

And yet the bottom line is...that it will only INVOLVE a Single Universe.

"An explosion that scatters stellar mass out across a NEW Virgin Universe"

Exactly A UNIVERSE...but NOT a Multiverse.

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/5664/mk3ay8kx3.th.jpg


Either READ COMICS, or STOP LYING!


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Even by your laughable interpretation,

Nothing is funnier than watching you TWISTING the On Panel STATEMENTS and swearing your getting away with it.

We all know you Pinocchio, I believe your nose just jabbed me in th eye.


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Phoenix still would have done 99% of the work, the X-men would have barely registered on the power scales.

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/1821/pzm2.th.jpg

"XAVIER its CROWN and COLOSSUS its BASE"

"EACH X-MAN HAS a PLACE, EACH a purpose Greater than himself or herself"


SO ACCORDING to ISSUE itself, Straight from the WRITER'S Mouth.

XAVIER, COLOSSUS, WOLVERINE, KORSAIR, BANSHEE, CYCLOPS, STORM, and NIGHTCRAWLER, ALL GAVE their LIFE-FORCE to HELP Jean Knit the Lattice Back Together.

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/3401/pnq0.th.jpg


Go READ COMICS!!!



Originally posted by GalacticStorm
My interpretation


You mean your BULL shit


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
says Storm and Corsair gave their souls so she could bind herself to the physical plane,

You mean to AVOIID being ABSORBED and KILLED!

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1362/p312cx5.th.jpg


But nice try as usual.


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
the rest of the X-men (Banshee, Cyclops and Colossus)

You mean,

XAVIER, COLOSSUS, WOLVERINE, KORSAIR, BANSHEE, CYCLOPS, STORM, and NIGHTCRAWLER.

Again, nice try Pino...


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
were their in spirit (as the comic states) and provided support and encouragement.

"comic states"?

AGAIN,

I CHALLENGE You, to find me where it says, they were there JUST "morally supporting" or the other GARBAGE of "encouragement"

I CHALLENGE YOU!!!


EVERYONE LOOK,

"The POWER of Her Friends Sing WITHIN Her, as she reenergizes the Lattice"

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1248/p7mg7.th.jpg


Does it say the "moral support and encouragement"?

Or, does it clearly say, "The POWER of HER FRIENDS sing WITHIN HER"?


Poor little Pino...

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Valiant effort Mr M. Allow me to put right the falsities you present and would love for everyone to subscribe to

For a start, Jim Jaspers did not ever create his own universe.


"I made everything actually, I made the sky, I made the Tiger the Lamb"


http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/1554/jsd5.th.jpg

"I made the Stars"



Go READ COMICS PINO!

Err im sorry, if Jean's mutant powers are part of the Phoenix then include it if shes not then dont

Scarlet Witch, Jim Jaspers, Hyperstorm, Franklin Richards
In no order, these are the most powerful mutants IMO

Second Tier
Nate Grey (slightly lower than the top mutants but higher than the rest), Jean Grey, Cable, Proteus, Jamie Braddock
(possibly Vulcan and Mr. M also).

These are based on just raw power not "who would win in a fight".
I'm probably forgetting some people, but off the top of my head this is how I see it.

Originally posted by thedude1948
Scarlet Witch, Jim Jaspers, Hyperstorm, Franklin Richards
In no order, these are the most powerful mutants IMO

Second Tier
Nate Grey (slightly lower than the top mutants but higher than the rest), Jean Grey, Cable, Proteus, Jamie Braddock
(possibly Vulcan and Mr. M also).

These are based on just raw power not "who would win in a fight".
I'm probably forgetting some people, but off the top of my head this is how I see it.

I like your choices.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Phoenix Force itself exists simulatneously outside of time and space as well as being one with it. Jeans power comes from her connection to the Force, it does not stem from reality like Jaspers, therefore theres no reason why she would be powerless outside of it.

The M'kraan crystal itself isnt outside of reality, but it is the access point to the white hot room which is. Jamie Braddock's power derives from his manipulation of the quantum strings of reality, he has been shown to manipulate the WHR. It is not outside of reality.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Jamie Braddock's power derives from his manipulation of the quantum strings of reality, he has been shown to manipulate the WHR. It is not outside of reality.

True indeed X.



Jamie Braddock Warped the White Hot Room ("Heart of the Phoenix" like child's play.


This is the WHR

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3728/wyz2.th.jpg

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/7650/m2jo5.th.jpg


Jamie teleported Rachel and Betsy to the Room, then after a short while he begins to Morph the White Hot Room

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/2512/j1ma3.th.jpg


He appears flying by an image of Captain Britain

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/3619/j2hw6.th.jpg


Jamie Braddock with total control of the WHR ("Heart of the Phoenix"
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/4193/j3cw1.th.jpg

Jamie Warps it into a Crystal like object.


pointandlaugh White Hot Room

Originally posted by celestialdemon
I agree. Mutants are getting way too powerful. Gambit can control all forms of kinetic energy. Jubilee is going to start making atoms explode. Havok is going to have absolute control over cosmic energy. Leech is going to be able to absorb the powers of any being anywhere. It's getting ridiculous.

That's why I keep saying they need their own universe. They should be "shunted" out of regular MU. They may sell comic books, but they are actually hurting the other books. They reduce credibility, they overshadow any non-mutant characters that may be involved in a storyline with them.
Terrible.

Originally posted by thedude1948
Scarlet Witch, Jim Jaspers, Hyperstorm, Franklin Richards
In no order, these are the most powerful mutants IMO

Second Tier
Nate Grey (slightly lower than the top mutants but higher than the rest), Jean Grey, Cable, Proteus, Jamie Braddock
(possibly Vulcan and Mr. M also).

These are based on just raw power not "who would win in a fight".
I'm probably forgetting some people, but off the top of my head this is how I see it.

I like this list also, but am still bugged by the whole Scarlet Witch fiasco.
Terrible.

Other than that, good list.

Ive already handled the M'kraan crystal issue so theres no need for me to tackle you point for point anymore.

The X-men that gave their life forces to Jean were Storm and Corsair. That was as stated so she could bind herself to reality and perform the task.

When going about performing the task she lost heart and as stated it says she realized she couldnt do it alone. It says the the spirits of the X-men were with her and they gave of themselves just like Storm and Corsair gave of themselves. You can either interpret that they similarly lent a hand by being with her there in spirit and encouraging her ("the spirits of the X-men are with her" or they to gave their life forces so she could bind herself to reality and perform her task.

Either way the power of the X-men accounts for little when helping in a multiversal effort. Theres no debating that. Those combined X-men couldnt blow up a planet with their energies let alone bind a multiversal or even universal power.

As for the crystal being universal as you would so love for members here to believe, any comic reader with half decent comic knowledge knows that the current status of the crystal is multiversal. It is the multiversal nexus of realities. It got retconned into this status during the Legion Quest Saga. That point is not debatable. That retcon means that Jean contained a multiversal power not just a universal power as was the crystals status back in its 70's debut.

The crystal when its power is unleashed in one universes unless stopped by a Phoenix, eventually goes on to collapse the entire multiverse before resetting it. There arent many alternate crystals in each reality there is ONE. So Phoenix by containing its power first and foremost saved 616, but ultimately saved the multiverse.

As for the Jim Jaspers issue, he warped the reality of a universe. That is fact. He never went to a void and started creating his own reality from scratch. With that in mind when he says he made the stars and so on, what he did in reality is twist a reality to coincide with his own vision. Not as impressive as Phoenixes top feats.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As for the Jim Jaspers issue, he warped the reality of a universe. That is fact. He never went to a void and started creating his own reality from scratch.


"He is lonely, but he is also GOD
http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/8739/j10ig8.th.jpg



"I made everything actually, I made the sky, I made the Tiger the Lamb"
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/1554/jsd5.th.jpg
"I made the Stars"



Mad Jim jaspers in a Universe he CREATED
http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/7223/m18gy5.th.jpg

http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/2392/m19zi6.th.jpg

Jaspers in a reality he warped. Dont try it. I will post the entire issue and leave people in doubt of your hypocrisy. Dont EVER even suggest that i misrepresent scans. You have been shown on several occasions to be guilty of doing so. Poor show Emmie Only a comic debate.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
He never went to a void and started creating his own reality from scratch.

not to mention when he went to a void all he did was get his freaking brains blown out as he had no power there

Originally posted by manjaro
not to mention when he went to a void all he did was get his freaking brains blown out

Originally posted by Galan777
Mr. M is powerful but realistically his feats are nowhere near Molecule Man's, he really hasnt been too impressive thus far.

and Franklyn at full potential=Celestial level

To date Franklyn has done much more on pannel, thats why he is my top dog .....

theres no way in hell franklin is nearly as powerful as a celstial nothing short of a cosmic entitty is as powerful as a celestial. however he may be more powerful than mr. m im not sure could someone scan some of franklins feats

Originally posted by manjaro
not to mention when he went to a void all he did was get his freaking brains blown out as he had no power there


Jim Jaspers had to be given a Plot Device to be stopped, that would be the FURY.

The FURY was created by Jaspers himself:


Jim Jaspers cannot be defeated or killed by any Physical means, Only the Fury, which was indestructible and created by Jaspers Himself, after absorbing a Computer the size of a Cave, was able to kill Jim


Here the FURY blasted Jim down to the skeletal form

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/8508/j1lo2.th.jpg



Jim Remakes himself in an instant and then with a gesture warps the FURY into a ball

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/8223/j2ea0.th.jpg



"A MONTH AGO, the transformation would have KILLED IT"

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/5967/j1np5.th.jpg

BUT, after "absorbing a Computer the size of a Cave, it LEARNS, ADAPTS"



The FURY was created by Jim to be indestructible too though, and NOW that it has the intelligence of a Computer the size of a Cave, even he can't kill it (Plot Device)

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/9495/j3uz5.th.jpg

"The Asylum-GOD tries to Kill the THING that CANNOT DIE"



The FURY realizes "Jim can Alter reality at Whim, what if, there were NO Reality to Altar"

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/3870/j2ya8.th.jpg

So the FURY, teleports both Jaspers and itself to UN-SPACE


The Result

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3924/j3np2.th.jpg

The FURY lasted long enough in a battle with Mad Jim, because it was designed by him to be unstoppable and indestructible, except by himself of course, but after absorbing the Intelligence of a Computer the size of a Cave, even Jim couldn't kill it (Plot Device)

This was the only weakness that Alan Moore (the Writer) was able to give Jim Jaspers.

In other words, ONLY the FURY (which was created by Jim) can or could defeat him.

After a long fight, the FURY killed Jim but was weakend by Jaspers, Captain Britain and company took advantage and killed the weakened FURY.

i hear you dude..no need to get into all this with me. thats why Jaspers is way up there on my personal list...the point was to illustrate that Jaspers just warped an already existing universe to his liking, not build one from scratch..as that would require him going to a place where matter didnt exist..and as you can see per the scans you've so generously provided that is a place where he is powerless. so no one is doubting the fury's skill, or Jaspers vast powers...well at least im not

Originally posted by manjaro
i hear you dude..no need to get into all this with me. thats why Jaspers is way up there on my personal list...the point was to illustrate that Jaspers just warped an already existing universe to his liking, not build one from scratch..as that would require him going to a place where matter didnt exist..and as you can see per the scans you've so generously provided that is a place where he is powerless. so no one is doubting the fury's skill, or Jaspers vast powers...well at least im not

I agree.

After reviewing the series, I realized he could create a Universe but from quantum strings (smallest known particles) already there.

I just wanted to make it known that only the FURY (for the many reasons I posted) was able to take him to un-space.

Anyone else would have been cremated by Jaspers.

Originally posted by air beardey
theres no way in hell franklin is nearly as powerful as a celstial nothing short of a cosmic entitty is as powerful as a celestial. however he may be more powerful than mr. m im not sure could someone scan some of franklins feats Franklin IS as powerful as a celestial when he is full potential

Originally posted by trolly_crouchjr
Franklin IS as powerful as a celestial when he is full potential
i would accually like to see franks on pannel 616 feats that puts him on par with a celestial.

Originally posted by air beardey
theres no way in hell franklin is nearly as powerful as a celstial nothing short of a cosmic entitty is as powerful as a celestial. however he may be more powerful than mr. m im not sure could someone scan some of franklins feats

Franklin is THE most powerful being in the universe when he is at full potential as Ulti-Man. MORE powerful than a Celestial.

Period. And, he isn't tapping into another power. And, he isn't stealing it from somebody else. And the X-Gods aren't bypassing continuity and comic history when they grant him such power.
This power was his since birth.
Franklin Richard's fate is to become THE Most Powerful Being in the universe.
Period.

I always thought Beyonder or TOAA will always be above him?

Originally posted by Horrificus
Franklin Richard's fate is to become THE Most Powerful Being in the universe.
Period.

Perhaps,

but as of now, Franklyn has only been able to create pocket Universes.

hyperstorm has got him beat tho

Originally posted by Mr Master
Perhaps,

but as of now, Franklyn has only been able to create pocket Universes.

Franklin is a rare case where we know his full potential, though it hasnt been shown.

Originally posted by Mr Master

I just wanted to make it known that only the FURY (for the many reasons I posted) was able to take him to un-space.

Anyone else would have been cremated by Jaspers.

You've recently read a few Captain Britain comics and believe yourself the expert all of a sudden?

Youre speculating that only Fury could destroy Jaspers. Jaspers is powerless in a void. Anyone who can get him into a void can defeat him.

Jaspers has human reaction time and has to consciously enforce his will on reality. As such all manner of beings could have him in the void before he batted an eyelid

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You've recently read a few Captain Britain comics and believe yourself the expert all of a sudden?

Youre speculating that only Fury could destroy Jaspers. Jaspers is powerless in a void. Anyone who can get him into a void can defeat him.

Jaspers has human reaction time and has to consciously enforce his will on reality. As such all manner of beings could have him in the void before he batted an eyelid

stfu2


And GO READ COMICS!

You don't know me, who do you think you are, telling me I just recently did anything.

You really are a clown.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Franklin is a rare case where we know his full potential, though it hasnt been shown. The second part of your sentence contridicts the first part.
We have never seen him at this level, everything is basically speculation, with a couple things to reference it, but still with no on panel evidence to support your conclusion.

I would also like to know how Franklin can become as powerful as his creators, (Celestials) under his own power.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Franklin is THE most powerful being in the universe when he is at full potential as Ulti-Man. MORE powerful than a Celestial.

Period. And, he isn't tapping into another power. And, he isn't stealing it from somebody else. And the X-Gods aren't bypassing continuity and comic history when they grant him such power.
This power was his since birth.
Franklin Richard's fate is to become THE Most Powerful Being in the universe.
Period. Bullshit?
So Franklin is more powerful than LT? Ya right.

Originally posted by bigbran
The second part of your sentence contridicts the first part.
We have never seen him at this level, everything is basically speculation, with a couple things to reference it, but still with no on panel evidence to support your conclusion.

I would also like to know how Franklin can become as powerful as his creators, (Celestials) under his own power.

Bullshit?
So Franklin is more powerful than LT? Ya right.

I think you meant Bullshit!

Anyway, LT is not of this universe.

PHAT

Originally posted by Horrificus
I think you meant Bullshit!

Anyway, LT is not of this universe. More powerful than a good showing Galactus?

Originally posted by bigbran
More powerful than a good showing Galactus?

Supposedly. That is what was said.
Anyway, I guess he was powerful enough to BECOME a Galactus.
That must be pretty powerful.

franklin has far surpassed all celestials even as a child having created FULL SIZED universeS without breakin a sweet or even THINKIN about it. hes far above even universal abstracts like eternity, death etc. and this is his CURRENT potential{the days of creating POCKET universes are in the past} which is nothing compared to his real potential. hes the most poweful. followed by nate grey, cable, legion and hyperstorm{remember that hyperstorm was AT his full potetnial which is why he became a multiversal threat}

Originally posted by leonheartmm
franklin has far surpassed all celestials even as a child having created FULL SIZED universeS without breakin a sweet or even THINKIN about it. hes far above even universal abstracts like eternity, death etc. and this is his CURRENT potential{the days of creating POCKET universes are in the past} which is nothing compared to his real potential. hes the most poweful. followed by nate grey, cable, legion and hyperstorm{remember that hyperstorm was AT his full potetnial which is why he became a multiversal threat}
Franklyn only creatd a Pocket universe.
What are you talking about??? Hyperstorm Multiversal threat???? He was Pwned by Galactus. At full potentional he was only equal to a Celestial.

People lie a lot here

That's why you have to get proof

nope hyperstorm became a multiversal threat that much was STATED, he was defeated by galactus its true but that could be attributed to many things, like him being a plot device etc. abraxas was defeated by the ultimate nullifier which is a universal alien DEVICE only known to have been able to destroy galactus yet abraxas WAS a multiversal/omniversal threat. im saying what he WAS he WAS a multiversal threat and he WAS defeated by galactus either one is bad writing but both happened and thats FACT.{if theres one thing ive learned in my long years at KMC is that marvel is FULL of plot holes, twists devices and using the analogy x>y and y>z therefore x>z wont hold true for many many characters. but as far as franklin richards goes, its clear, he created multiple full sized universes without even thinking or tiring, and travelled through em with howard the duck n others. he created all the abstract concepts by scrath and without help. although i dont remember which comic it was exactly{and if that alone makes me a LIAR than believe what u will} i read it n it wasn a what if either. its also vaguely stated on wikipedia annd there were a few members here who remember the issu. im not bs ing here. frankly as a kid with HARDLY any control of his power could do that. create multiple full sized universes.

also remember that celestials themselves are proneto plot devices sumtimes becomeing powerful enough to join the tribunals concil which included the stranger galactus, eternity etc and other times to get KILLED by the invisible woman's powers. also sumtimes being far higher than cosmic cubes and at other times trembling infront of the retconned beyonder who was a cosmic cube which in THEMSELVES are prone to wild fluctuations form beyond multiversal to simply solar system power level.

Leonheartmm, what have you been smoking? The Ultimate Nullifier is very much multiversal, just so you know. When did Franklin Richards create multiple 'full sized' universes? How about the abstracts?

no in places it MIGHT be multiversal{when reed destroyed abraxas} but then again in places its not even UNIVERSAL{where galactus couldnt do a thing to maelstrom with infinity with the nullifier and maelstrom laughed at his face} as i said theres more than one plot twist to these age old things and looking at only one part of the story is dangerous in decision maiking. franklin did it unintentionally when he was travelling with a couple of other future kids and most noticably howard the duck{a forgotten gem of a marvel character who has the BEST and least known comic book adaptation movie ever made with some oscar winning actors-----------just so u know} in a spaceship and then travelled through warps and through uther normal universes only to realize that he was actually the one creating them in the first place.

Right.

thanos is the most powerful mutant and the master of preps

Mad Jim Jaspers can kill Thanos

Originally posted by Horrificus
Supposedly. That is what was said.
Anyway, I guess he was powerful enough to BECOME a Galactus.
That must be pretty powerful. I didn't know we brought What-Ifs to debates...

Hyperstorm is the most powerful mutant

Originally posted by Phoenixforce05
Hyperstorm is the most powerful mutant This is quite surprising, since you have Phoenix in your name...

i tend to not read about ultrapowerful character debates... BUT, i am curious on where onslaught stands here

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/o/onslaught.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onslaught_(comics)

Originally posted by bigbran
This is quite surprising, since you have Phoenix in your name... Well, hyperstorm has Phoenix in him

Originally posted by trolly_crouchjr
Well, hyperstorm has Phoenix in him HE ATE HER??????

YUP

Pure mutants are not all that strong with exceptions like X-Man and so forth. With additions to them, Apocalyps end others come into play. He was pretty strong even without the tech. Just not as strong.

Originally posted by thedude1948
Scarlet Witch, Jim Jaspers, Hyperstorm, Franklin Richards
In no order, these are the most powerful mutants IMO

Second Tier
Nate Grey (slightly lower than the top mutants but higher than the rest), Jean Grey, Cable, Proteus, Jamie Braddock
(possibly Vulcan and Mr. M also).

i agree with this choices, but i would also like to add korvac to the top tier

galacticstorm, please address the point mr master raised about jaime braddock warping the WHR... otherwise i wuold be inclined to agree with him

franklin did become galactus on "earth x" storyarc, but its non canon

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

As for the crystal being universal as you would so love for members here to believe, any comic reader with half decent comic knowledge knows that the current status of the crystal is multiversal. It is the multiversal nexus of realities. It got retconned into this status during the Legion Quest Saga. That point is not debatable. That retcon means that Jean contained a multiversal power not just a universal power as was the crystals status back in its 70's debut.

The crystal when its power is unleashed in one universes unless stopped by a Phoenix, eventually goes on to collapse the entire multiverse before resetting it. There arent many alternate crystals in each reality there is ONE. So Phoenix by containing its power first and foremost saved 616, but ultimately saved the multiverse.

i dont think you should attribute a pre-retcon action (containing of the crystal pre-retcon non-multiversal crystal) to the post retcon object (multiversal crystal)

Originally posted by Mr Master
stfu2


And GO READ COMICS!

You don't know me, who do you think you are, telling me I just recently did anything.

You really are a clown. To be fair, you did say that you were starting to read the Captain Britain series and appearances recently.

thanos is a mutant of the titan race and the strongest

Originally posted by qqqqqqq
thanos is a mutant of the titan race and the strongest
Thanos IS wearker than Mad Jim Jaspers, Full Potential Richard Franklins, Scarlet Witch Full Potential and alota others

Professor X with cerebro, he would melt brains with mind power.

well we can add storm to the omega list thanks to the latest Balck panther

Thanos is not as powerful as everybody thinks. He is just very very durable, even by a "Cosmic" point of view.

He can't even destroy a planet with his own power.

Offhand... I'd have to say that potentially goes to Franklin Richards...

The kid created a whole nother universe to rebirth the heroes...

In Earth X he killed Celestials...

Without adding in extraterrestial or cosmic entity help... i'd say the win goes to franklin.

Leech

stop kidding yourselves ppl Hyperstorm was a brash mixture of the Rachel Summer's portion of Phoenix Force and Franklyn Richards, as they are his parents..i wish i had the original copies but glactus wasnt like ooh yum, mutant with endless supply of energy he had to work hard for it, and it was only becuase reed richards out smarted him..under Jean as PWC, he's the second most powerful, Then folloed clsoely by Franklyn, Then followed closely by Jaspers..in fact let me repost my original list


Originally posted by manjaro

Jean(PWC)
Hyperstorm
Franklin
Jaspers
Mr.M
Vulcan/Godlike Cable
Nate Grey
Q. Quire(he's still young,only time will tell how far he'll bump up the list)
Rachel Summers

All other omegas are irrelevant.. then id end with
Scarlet witch
Magneto
Exodus as the most powerful alphas..... also i know that optimally rachel should be higher up as she has actually, successfully hosted the PF b4, but the thing is she has been at this for while now and she's been lazy with developing her powers, and let all others creep by her.

also technically Thanos is a mutant too

also correct me if im wrong but the name of this thread is most powerful mutant, not most powerful being in MU

Originally posted by stormfront13
well we can add storm to the omega list thanks to the latest Balck panther

What was she stated to be an Omega Mutant in BP?

Wife Storm is getting mistreated IMO...I dropped this series after the wedding...

get the F out!! any info on this?

Originally posted by manjaro

also correct me if im wrong but the name of this thread is most powerful mutant, not most powerful being in MU Phoenix isn't the most powerful being, if that's what your talking about.

you gotta be kidding me right? who said the Phoenix was the most powerful being? we're talking about mutants dude, and Jean as PWC is the most powerful mutant. i hope that clarfies.

Originally posted by manjaro
you gotta be kidding me right? who said the Phoenix was the most powerful being? we're talking about mutants dude, and Jean as PWC is the most powerful mutant. i hope that clarfies. So why were you talking about powerful beings in MU?
Irrelevent anyway. I got my answer.

The Phoenix... is a cosmic entity... it isn't a mutant...

The mere fact that jean happens to be the avatar... puts her power level on a scale that can't be calculated... because all you get every time she goes uber... is the phoenix power.

Jean is not the most powerful mutant.
she is a mutant that was chosen to be the carrier of the Pheonix Force.
The Pheonix Force did not come from her.
It isn't hers.