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Not really a Next Gen topic but here is an article regarding the lawsuit agaisn't a major Asian retailer. This proves Sony means business when they sued anyone for their gadgets.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=20561





This could really not set well with other major video game retailers around the world.

Yet another anti-PS3 spam article, Wrathful Dwarf?

Come on now, don't you have better things to do?

Anyway, they were legally within their rights to sue the retailers.

It's THEIR product that is being sold via the retailers to consumers. If the product violates EU consumer safety laws, than it's not the retailers' ass whose on the line. It's Sony's.

If I were to sell a product that was only meant to be sold for a certain country in order to adhere to SPECIFIC product laws for that country, than I would be within my rights to sue a retailer who violates and infringes these aftermentioned laws. It would be my ass on the line, if the product sold in a country infringes the consumer safety laws specific to that country.

Sony did the right thing. They could haved had a host of lawsuits and not to mention anti-trust charges brought against them for these PSPs sold in EU.

Uhhh...nowhere in my post does it mention the PS3. So I'm assuming you're kidding there...

Come on Draco, don't YOU have better things to do than to make excuses for an electronic gadget corporation that doesn't care about you only your money?

If Sony is indeed completely right to make a lawsuit. Then by all means MS has every right to give Sony a HUUUUGE slap on the face with a lawsuit for this little ad:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=7621272&highlight=userid%3A14101#post7621272

That is utter crap. Lik-Sang was a good retailer company, and they knew what they were doing. They even stated exactly which power adapters shipped with the Japanese PSPs and knew they were world-wide safety compliant.

Good job Sony. What, did you get sick of people making money by selling your PSPs? Why should Sony care if people in Europe are playing PSPs meant for Japan? They're all made in the same place, anyway.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Uhhh...nowhere in my post does it mention the PS3. So I'm assuming you're kidding there...

PS3. Sony. It's kind synonymous nowadays on the gaming forum...

What? You're denying you don't repeatedly spam the forums with "OMGOZ! SONYZ IZ EVIL!" articles that shed some sort of negative view upon them?



Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Come on Draco, don't YOU have better things to do than to make excuses for an electronic gadget corporation that doesn't care about you only your money?

A) First off, welcome to capitalism. Maybe in some far off fantasy world of yours, firms and corporations actually have kindness and compassion for the wants of consumers and go out of their way to make all the little children in the world happy, but that's not reality.

ALL firms care for nothing except profits. ANY action is an action towards profit. ANY other action that does not yield short-term profit is either an investment for long-term profit or an investment towards capital, protection against costs or finance networking.

Nintendo does it. Microsoft does it. And yes, Sony does it.

Good luck finding a firm that DOESN'T "doesn't care about only your money."

B) It's not an excuse. It's a factual, logical understanding of the article and primarily the issue of article. Unfortunately, you clearly didn't understand it or you didn't WANT to understand it. You only saw or meant for us to see "OMGOZ! SONYZ PUT SOMEONE OUTTA BUSINESS! EVILZ!" Which didn't work with me, because I actually have some knowledge about how business and particularly the lawsuit in question works.

If you had ANY understanding of the article, you would side with Sony because they were doing the right thing to...I don't know...OBEY THE LAW.



What? You wanted them to disobey the law?





Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
If Sony is indeed completely right to make a lawsuit. Then by all means MS has every right to give Sony a HUUUUGE slap on the face with a lawsuit for this little ad:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=7621272&highlight=userid%3A14101#post7621272

Have you ever watched a Pepsi commercial? You know the ones that say "we're better than Coke." Or any OTHER brand that says "we're better than the leading brand."

Do they get sued? Do they have the right to sue? Nope.

There goes that arguement.



Is there ANYTHING slanderous or insulting about the price comparision sheet? Anything at all? NOPE. Is there anything that is a lie about the other products? NOPE. Is there ANYTHING that was on the FACT sheet that wasn't...well...a FACT?

Nope.

Honey, you act like this is the first time a corporation has posted a comparision sheet between their product and the other competing products. And it's neither illegal nor against the law.

Come on now....

Originally posted by General Kaliero
That is utter crap. Lik-Sang was a good retailer company, and they knew what they were doing. They even stated exactly which power adapters shipped with the Japanese PSPs and knew they were world-wide safety compliant.

Good job Sony. What, did you get sick of people making money by selling your PSPs? Why should Sony care if people in Europe are playing PSPs meant for Japan? They're all made in the same place, anyway.

Because it violates the consumer safety laws instilled by...I don't know...the friggin EU Commission of Economic Affairs?

Sony didn't make the laws.

THINK PEOPLE! Why in HELL would a company PURPOSEFULLY sue a company that's making a PROFIT on THEIR goods for THEIR benefit?

Is it because they're evil or they're just plain mean, like some stupid, ignorant people think?

NO. It's because it's against the law and violates the law to an extent that the government would impose substantial financial loss upon Sony itself.


Swear to god...

"Yup! Sony put the place outta business because they're mean and evil! Even though it was making a profit for them...."

Pepsi and Coke are the same company and im not joking.

Originally posted by El_NINO
Pepsi and Coke are the same company and im not joking.

Did they finally merge? They're the most prominent substitute goods in America. Competing against each other in market-driven economy is futile.

Merging together would certainly cut down costs and boost their capital.

It's not even like Sony stuff was all they sold...but only one company has a problem with it. Hmmm.

Originally posted by Draco69
PS3. Sony. It's kind synonymous nowadays on the gaming forum...

What? You're denying you don't repeatedly spam the forums with "OMGOZ! SONYZ IZ EVIL!" articles that shed some sort of negative view upon them?



Really? PS3 and Sony mean the same...boy, are you clueless. So if I say PSP is the same as Sony...that's correct? No, for one....the PS3 and PSP are the products. Sony is the corporation that makes them. What's next? Windows means Xbox? Hahaha!


Originally posted by Draco69

A) First off, welcome to capitalism. Maybe in some far off fantasy world of yours, firms and corporations actually have kindness and compassion for the wants of consumers and go out of their way to make all the little children in the world happy, but that's not reality.

ALL firms care for nothing except profits. ANY action is an action towards profit. ANY other action that does not yield short-term profit is either an investment for long-term profit or an investment towards capital, protection against costs or finance networking.

Nintendo does it. Microsoft does it. And yes, Sony does it.

Good luck finding a firm that DOESN'T "doesn't care about only your money."

B) It's not an excuse. It's a factual, logical understanding of the article and primarily the issue of article. Unfortunately, you clearly didn't understand it or you didn't WANT to understand it. You only saw or meant for us to see "OMGOZ! SONYZ PUT SOMEONE OUTTA BUSINESS! EVILZ!" Which didn't work with me, because I actually have some knowledge about how business and particularly the lawsuit in question works.

If you had ANY understanding of the article, you would side with Sony because they were doing the right thing to...I don't know...OBEY THE LAW.



What? You wanted them to disobey the law?

A) That's NOT capitalism! That's greed...big difference. Greed is what Enron did with their employees. Greed is Nike using kids in sweatshops. That's greed...Capitalism is business making. You do not take legal action to put someone out of business like Sony is doing to Lik-sang. They have a right to file a lawsuit. But no right to put someone out of business. It's ethically wrong and bad terrible business. I don't know what Communist mumble jumble you're digging. But that's not what is consider good business.

B) Your excuses don't work me either. So call this a stalemate. I don't have side with anyone. I take my side and observed. Which is what you are not doing.

Originally posted by Draco69
Have you ever watched a Pepsi commercial? You know the ones that say "we're better than Coke." Or any OTHER brand that says "we're better than the leading brand."

Do they get sued? Do they have the right to sue? Nope.

There goes that arguement.



Is there ANYTHING slanderous or insulting about the price comparision sheet? Anything at all? NOPE. Is there anything that is a lie about the other products? NOPE. Is there ANYTHING that was on the FACT sheet that wasn't...well...a FACT?

Nope.

Honey, you act like this is the first time a corporation has posted a comparision sheet between their product and the other competing products. And it's neither illegal nor against the law.

Come on now....

Never and I do mean never have I seen an add in which Pepsi says "requires you" Don't play hokey pokey with me. Fact is that Sony Lied in the chart. They made themselves look stupid and if stupidity should be followed by a lawsuit. By all reason Sony would be flooded with legal claims.

Originally posted by Draco69

Is there ANYTHING slanderous or insulting about the price comparision sheet? Anything at all? NOPE. Is there anything that is a lie about the other products? NOPE. Is there ANYTHING that was on the FACT sheet that wasn't...well...a FACT?

Nope.

Honey, you act like this is the first time a corporation has posted a comparision sheet between their product and the other competing products. And it's neither illegal nor against the law.

Come on now....

Actually, most of that fact sheet is nothing BUT flat-out lies. It was trying to imply you needed to buy all sorts of stuff (as in it was required or the system wouldn't run and you couldn't play games) for Xbox360 but you didn't for PS3 and thus the PS3 was cheaper. Never mind the fact that all the so-called 360 'requirements' were nothing but optional add-on accessories and the system would work just fine and be playable without them.

If that's not lying I don't know what is.

Originally posted by Lana
It's not even like Sony stuff was all they sold...but only one company has a problem with it. Hmmm.

Well of course not. It's commonplace for a company to....ignore certain ephitets of the law to make a profit.

However doing so would not only violate copyright laws but also laws regarding importing and exporting of goods. Which is the crux of the issue.

Europe has a TERRIBLE technological division (expect for cars...) in comparision to Japan.

Sony is a leading corporation for electronic goods. The EU apparently had a problem with it because it meant THEIR European goods that would be sold for a greater profit for the country were being superceded by JAPANESE goods that would mean less profit for Europe and more profit for Japan.

It's not really about consumer safety. That's just the red tape. It REALLY comes down to exporting and importing of goods in a capitalist society....

Which is a time-old issue. Even now...

Originally posted by Draco69
Well of course not. It's commonplace for a company to....ignore certain ephitets of the law to make a profit.

However doing so would not only violate copyright laws but also laws regarding importing and exporting of goods. Which is the crux of the issue.

Europe has a TERRIBLE technological division (expect for cars...) in comparision to Japan.

Sony is a leading corporation for electronic goods. The EU apparently had a problem with it because it meant THEIR European goods that would be sold for a greater profit for the country were being superceded by JAPANESE goods that would mean less profit for Europe and more profit for Japan.

It's not really about consumer safety. That's just the red tape. It REALLY comes down to exporting and importing of goods in a capitalist society....

Which is a time-old issue. Even now...

Think of it this way - do you think Sony believes that European gamers are going to be happy about the fact that they've been screwed over with the PS3 release date, on top of the fact that they're constantly screwed over when it comes to games coming out there, even though Europe is a larger gaming market than either Japan or the US?

I know I'd certainly be pissed and either not bother, or find some other way to get the games.

Wonder if Sony will do anything about people importing Japanese systems or games to the US? Because that is incredibly common as well.

Originally posted by Lana
Actually, most of that fact sheet is nothing BUT flat-out lies.

Like what? Name one. Good luck on that...

Originally posted by Lana
It was trying to imply you needed to buy all sorts of stuff (as in it was required or the system wouldn't run and you couldn't play games) for Xbox360 but you didn't for PS3 and thus the PS3 was cheaper. Never mind the fact that all the so-called 360 'requirements' were nothing but optional add-on accessories and the system would work just fine and be playable without them.

Of course it was trying to imply that the Xbox 360 was cheaper. That's called advertisement. EVERYONE does it. Even a friggin corporation that sells Bounty does it.

Implication does not mean lying. Look at the top. The Xbox 360's Core System does indeed not have a HDD. Nor a wireless controller. Nor a HD DVD Drive. Nor a $50 subscription to Xbox Live. Did they lie about that? Nope? How about the prices? Nope.

As you say, it was an implication that the PS3 was cheaper than the Xbox 360. But the fact sheet pertains to the core system. Thus they weren't lying if you wanted the specific accessories that is already found with the PS3 rather than the Core system.

Is it misleading? Yep. Is it an implication? Yep.

Is it ANY different from what other corporations do in their advertisements in order to sell their product?

Absolutely not.

It's not new.



If that's not lying I don't know what is.

I forgot to add that the other 360 contains all that stuff and is still cheaper than the basic PS3 console. And of course the fact sheet does not point that out.

And as they are implying that all the accessories are required (which you cannot deny they are doing, as it straight-out says "required to buy", which is not true, yes I would say that is lying. Hiding the truth is lying.

Originally posted by Lana
Think of it this way - do you think Sony believes that European gamers are going to be happy about the fact that they've been screwed over with the PS3 release date, on top of the fact that they're


Because, as I implied, the European EU of Economic Affairs has a VERY stingy process when it comes to importation of foreign electronic goods. Especially from Japan.

If ANYONE has ANY knowledge about the notrorous European importation process of electronic goods, they'd know it's not because Sony doesn't WANT to.

THINK PEOPLE. Why would a firm purposefully withhold a product to be sold in a country for a substantial profit? To "piss them off?" Because they're mean? Because they hate the French?

No. It's because Europe has a very, very difficult and taxing process of electronic goods.

They have a sucky electronic market. When a country has a bad market, they highly tax imports and make the country importing that said good jump through hoops.

Now why didn't the Xbox 360 have problems? Because they're American. Europe has preferential importation standards for all countries and corporations. And it just so happens that Sony and Japan is at the top of their list....

Originally posted by Lana
though Europe is a larger gaming market than either Japan or the US?

Well let's think. You stated that Europe is a larger gaming market than the US or Japan.

WHY would a firm PURPOSEFULLY deny PROFIT from the LARGEST market that would give the MOST profit?

Is it because they're mean? Or they wanna piss off people?

NO.

It's because of the EU Importation Standards.

Why would Sony purposefully cut a big chunk outta their profits if the governmental laws didn't hold them back?


Originally posted by Lana
Wonder if Sony will do anything about people importing Japanese systems or games to the US? Because that is incredibly common as well.




No. It's because the USA has a VERY lax importation standard compared to other countries in the world....especially Europe.

Originally posted by Lana
I forgot to add that the other 360 contains all that stuff and is still cheaper than the basic PS3 console. And of course the fact sheet does not point that out.

Well of course not. That's not the purpose of an advertisement. You do know what advertisement is, right?



Originally posted by Lana
And as they are implying that all the accessories are required (which you cannot deny they are doing, as it straight-out says "required to buy", which is not true, yes I would say that is lying. Hiding the truth is lying.



Honey, PLEASE. It's business. I don't know WHERE you got this idea that firms have to tell the whole truth (other than what the laws dictate for them to do) in order to badly reflect on them.

Why Sony all of sudden? Other firms have been doing it for decades. Microsoft included. Hell, they did the same damn thing with the PC years ago when going at it with Apple.

Is it because you're genuinely aghast at a company using advertisement that is appropiately misleading for the benefit of their company? Or is it because it's Sony?

Yeah...

It's the latter.

ALL firms use this tactic. Sony is not alone. Especially when it comes to Microsoft who is the BASTION when it comes to less than honesty business ethics....

Number one, quit with the 'honey' crap.

Number two, where did you get this idea that I'm an MS fan and am only against this because it's Sony? You're dead wrong. I am not a fan of any sort of advertising technique that involves lying or hiding the truth. Whatever happened to relying on the merits of your product instead of badmouthing another?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Uhhh...nowhere in my post does it mention the PS3. So I'm assuming you're kidding there...

Come on Draco, don't YOU have better things to do than to make excuses for an electronic gadget corporation that doesn't care about you only your money?

If Sony is indeed completely right to make a lawsuit. Then by all means MS has every right to give Sony a HUUUUGE slap on the face with a lawsuit for this little ad:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=7621272&highlight=userid%3A14101#post7621272

ROFL! that "Fact" sheet was the bomb.. I'm gonna have to send that to all my friends

Originally posted by Lana
Number two, where did you get this idea that I'm an MS fan and am only against this because it's Sony?

Huh? I was referring to WrathfulDwarf.



Not you...


Originally posted by Lana
Whatever happened to relying on the merits of your product instead of badmouthing another?

They didn't "badmouth" the other product. What did they give? The FACTUAL price of the Core system for the Xbox 360 in comparision to the Wii and the Core system for the PS3.

There were no insults.

There were no lies.

All of it were purely facts for the consumer to judge.

A example of "badmouthing" would be if Microsoft or Sony says "Nintendo sucks and people who play the game are geeks." Which Sony didn't do. Hell, they posted the correct pricing and advertisement for the Wii, didn't they? They were on the fact sheet as well. Were they "badmouthed" as well?

Nope...



How stating the actual pricing for an actual system is "badmouthing" I'll never know....

Yes there were lies, they listed the HD-DVD drive and an extra wireless controller under the 360 in a lazy attempt to up their price, as if you NEED those things to play the system, it was done with obviously malicious intentions against MS. It was them "Spinning" facts in their favor by insinuating falsehoods to make them look for favorable.

Originally posted by BackFire
Yes there were lies, they listed the HD-DVD drive and an extra wireless controller under the 360 in a lazy attempt to up their price, as if you NEED those things to play the system, it was done with obviously malicious intentions against MS. It was them "Spinning" facts in their favor by insinuating falsehoods to make them look for favorable.



He said it best:

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The whole point of the chart is to show how much extra you'd need to spend on your XBox 360 to get the same stuff as on the PS3... The purpose of the chart is to show that even though it has a high price point the PS3 is a much better deal and that they are offering at a lower price (compared to manufacturing cost) and taking a profit hit to make the system accessible. They aren't lieing or misleading anyone.

lol he doesnt get it you guys.. dont bother

No, he didn't, he's simply wrong. There ARE lies and they blatantly are misleading people in there. By listing the wireless controller and the HD-DVD drive, two accessories that aren't necessary at all, as if they're necessary, they're causing the price point of MS on the chart to be much higher than it should be. This is undeniably misleading, because someone who's naive about the actual facts (which aren't in that chart) may see it and think that what they're saying is true and that you need to buy all that shit for the 360 in order to play it.

Also the fact that they chose to only show their price comparison for the core systems is also misleading. Because what they fail to mention is that the premium package of the 360 comes with the HDD and wireless controller. Obviously this is because it was harder to spin the information for the premium packages in favor of Sony.

The whole chart is done for the purpose of misleading people into thinking that in order to play the 360 you need all this shit when in reality you don't, and not even mentioning that you can get the premium package which includes the one thing you DO need AND a wireless controller for 400 dollars. Still $100 less than Sony's core system.

Originally posted by Draco69
Huh? I was referring to WrathfulDwarf.



Not you...




They didn't "badmouth" the other product. What did they give? The FACTUAL price of the Core system for the Xbox 360 in comparision to the Wii and the Core system for the PS3.

There were no insults.

There were no lies.

All of it were purely facts for the consumer to judge.

A example of "badmouthing" would be if Microsoft or Sony says "Nintendo sucks and people who play the game are geeks." Which Sony didn't do. Hell, they posted the correct pricing and advertisement for the Wii, didn't they? They were on the fact sheet as well. Were they "badmouthed" as well?

Nope...



How stating the actual pricing for an actual system is "badmouthing" I'll never know....

No, you're wrong. The "fact sheet" listed optional components for the Xbox 360 and labeled them "required." The entire sheet was very misleading.

They also decided not to include the fact that the PS3 doesn't ship with component cables.

Who else finds it highly amusing that Draco is, once again, the only one here defending Sony's crap tactics?

Whatever issues you may have with the "fact" sheet, Draco, the basic gist of it is this: That a "playworthy" 360 costs more than a "playworthy" PS3. However, Sony chose to begin with the Core system of the 360, and then add "required" additions to it, which bumped the core 360 + add-ons to a higher price than a vanilla PS3. However, they misleadingly left out the fact that a premium 360 includes a few of those add-ons for less than the cost of buying them separately, and the remaining "required" additions are actually not required at all. This, in twisting the truth, and not presenting all the facts, constitutes a genuine lie.

However, all of this does not pertain to Sony's apparent issue with Lik-Sang, and if you wish to continue the discussion of Sony's now-infamous "fact" sheet, please feel free to do so in the proper thread, which is stickied at the top of the forum for your convenience.

As for Lik-Sang, Sony had no right to sue them out of business. Lik-Sang sold everything, Nintendo, Sony, and various computer systems, from Japan, and now people who didn't even care about Sony lose their supplier of, for example, high-quality laptops. How is that fair, or justified? It isn't, plain and simple. If Sony actually believed that there was some violation of law or possible safety hazard, the correct course of action would have been to contact Lik-Sang and have them pull the PSPs from their product list and attempt to refund the "hazardous/illegal" PSPs. Instead, Sony has commited what is, quite conceivably, a crime, by destroying a company and putting many, many people out of a job.

Holy shit, Draco69, do you feel the need to turn anything said to you into a 5,000 word response?

Originally posted by Draco69
Well of course not. That's not the purpose of an advertisement. You do know what advertisement is, right?







Honey, PLEASE. It's business. I don't know WHERE you got this idea that firms have to tell the whole truth (other than what the laws dictate for them to do) in order to badly reflect on them.

Why Sony all of sudden? Other firms have been doing it for decades. Microsoft included. Hell, they did the same damn thing with the PC years ago when going at it with Apple.

Is it because you're genuinely aghast at a company using advertisement that is appropiately misleading for the benefit of their company? Or is it because it's Sony?

Yeah...

It's the latter.

ALL firms use this tactic. Sony is not alone. Especially when it comes to Microsoft who is the BASTION when it comes to less than honesty business ethics....

Actually, Draco, you're wrong there. A case can definitely be made that that advert misleads the customer as to what needs to be spent precisely because of their use of the term 'require', which is a lie. Firms have certainly been sued and/or run afoul of consumer legislation that way before.

Chances are the ad is just too small fry to care about, though.

Originally posted by General Kaliero


As for Lik-Sang, Sony had no right to sue them out of business.
Lik-Sang sold everything, Nintendo, Sony, and various computer systems, from Japan, and now people who didn't even care about Sony lose their supplier of, for example, high-quality laptops. How is that fair, or justified? It isn't, plain and simple. If Sony actually believed that there was some violation of law or possible safety hazard, the correct course of action would have been to contact Lik-Sang and have them pull the PSPs from their product list and attempt to refund the "hazardous/illegal" PSPs. Instead, Sony has commited what is, quite conceivably, a crime, by destroying a company and putting many, many people out of a job.

Actually, they do.

*Sigh* Swear to god, If I ever become President I will make it mandatory in all schools for a person to take economics courses before graduating. Hell, I'll make sure you can even get a driver's license without passing them...

Back to the subject.

I don't even think people realize what import taxes really are for or the fact that Lik-Sang somehow completely bypasses this aspect of importing.

Now with that in mind, consider the PS3 for a moment. Sony dropped the price of the PS3 $100 in Japan to better fit that market and it also means they will be making $100 less on each console sold in Japan. Now there are laws in place for global trading which helps protect companies which allows them to do this. One major method of this is import taxing where most of that money eventually ends up in the hands of the originating company. This means that even though Sony sold a $400 Playstation to someone in Europe, import taxes should make up the difference in domestic and foreign prices.

Lik-Sang bypasses this entire process. This means Sony has the potential to lose a TON of money because not only will they be selling a bunch of Playstations for $400 to the Japanese market, but they will also be selling them at $400 to a potentially huge import market.

This is the basis of what is known as arbitrage and the abuse of arbitrage is something that many countries are now making illegal.

Sony has every right to do what they did. I'm sure the other companies in the market are secretly thanking Sony for stepping up to do this.

Sony was also protecting themselves from consumer fraud allegations. By importing PSPs or PS3s into a country that has different electrical or region-coding standards than the system is meant for, they hold themselves at risk for lawsuits or very well much felony charges from the governments themselves. They would have been held liable for any and all damages.

And for information, Sony has MULTIPLE times asked Lik-Sang to follow their standards and the laws of Europe regarding importation. However they refused. Multiple times.

People, PLEASE understand the concept of importation of goods, the concept of arbitage and more importantlyt the concept of a producer's goods in relation to import taxes.

I REALLY don't think half the people even understand the content of the article.

Which is alright because the global economy, especially regarding foreign trade and finance is a VERY tricky business and not many people can understand it.

But we can understand this: A firm acts in its best interests. You don't have to understand arbitrage or import taxes or importation standards. You just have to know that a firm protects its profit interests. OBVIOUSLY Lik-Sang was acting against the economic interests of Sony.

To make it easy to understand:

I sell bananas.

I sell bananas in two countries.

I sell bananas in my own country for $10.

I sell bananas in France for $10 too. But the country adds a $5 import tax for every banana I sell. So I sell the banana for $16 in order to make a $1 profit, cover my profits and cover the cost of import tax.

Let's say a retailer named Lik-Sang sells my bananas in France...but they're selling bananas meant for the USA. They sell the imported bananas at $10 in France.

How much do I lose? How much do I earn?

This is PRECISELY what Lik-Sang has been doing for YEARS. They're selling imported products meant for a specific market in a specific country in order to take advantage of arbitrage and make a profit. More so than retailers selling the products legitimately. This is against the law. It's illegal and it not only hurts Sony's profits but it hurts the gaming industry as a whole.

When one sells a product they will ALWAYS be a tax of some kind. In a capitalist society, consumers "incur" the tax. It's an embedded price. Producers simply add the tax to the final price (I am NOT talking about sales tax; that's a completely different subject) and account the tax as debited to the asking government.

Lik-Sang bypasses that step. They reverse the economic model. They incur the tax on the producers. Like Sony.

If Lik-Sang sold my bananas for $10 in France, I would have to pay for the tax out my own pocket. My profits would go down. And logically, I would not be able to produce at my previous profit margin. Thus my production goes down. The supply of my bananas goes down. And the quantity supplied and sold for bananas goes down.

What happens then? Why the f*ck should a consumer care? Less goods = what? HIGHER prices. That's what it's ALL about.

Sony is protecting not only THEIR asses but YOUR asses as well. THINK. Use my simple example. The price of the PSP and PS3 is high enough already....what would happen if the price of these goods were to rise in Japan due to lower supply of PSPs/PS3s? They go UP.

They just lowered the friggin' price...and now not ONLY will the price go back up due to the laws of economics but they will ALSO incur costs of import taxes.

How would this affect the gaming industry. Prices will go UP in long-term. More so than they should.

Does everyone understand? Lik-Sang is not the victim. They're not ANYWHERE near the victim. Sony did us all a big whopping favor....

Originally posted by Barker
Holy shit, Draco69, do you feel the need to turn anything said to you into a 5,000 word response?

Because nobody here knows sh*t about economics.

Which isn't their fault. Economics is really, really boring.....

Yes it is...

But back on topic, I had a look at this "controversial sheet" I can see where it's misleading, and where some would have problems, but I think it's fairly obvious that the console works alone and you don't need the wireless controller or drive alone. But companies do this stuff all the time. I guess they could have reworded it for the none gamer types out there, though. But they know parents will look at that if they are buying games. But in that case, wouldn't the Wii look more appealing?

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/5116/sonychartgh0.jpg

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
But back on topic, I had a look at this "controversial sheet" I can see where it's misleading, and where some would have problems, but I think it's fairly obvious that the console works alone and you don't need the wireless controller or drive alone. But companies do this stuff all the time. I guess they could have reworded it for the none gamer types out there, though. But they know parents will look at that if they are buying games. But in that case, wouldn't the Wii look more appealing?

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/5116/sonychartgh0.jpg

But they lied!



That's just despicable. I can't believe a corporation would post misleading information on an advertisement.

I mean, that's just wrong!

So many of our advertisements are completely truthful and give fair, balanced and completely accurate analysises of both the product they represent and the product they are competing against.

I mean, I saw a commercial that stated "We're better than Nokia!" from Motorola...BUT they followed up with a half-hour narration that explained in a unbiased standpoint on how that was not necessarily true. They also mentioned all the failings of their phones and how Nokia was better than Motorola in some ways better than others.

THAT'S how advertisements should be and have been for the last 50 years.

I am appalled!

This DEFINITELY is worth bitching about on Internet Forums!

Shame on you on Sony! Shame! Shame!

Heeeeey....I didn't see this.....


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Really? PS3 and Sony mean the same...boy, are you clueless. So if I say PSP is the same as Sony...that's correct? No, for one....the PS3 and PSP are the products. Sony is the corporation that makes them. What's next? Windows means Xbox? Hahaha!

Yeah. This is called "deflection" A commonly used debating "tactic" used by immature individuals to spare them the expense of answering a particularly damaging question by the opposing antagonist.

In other words, you bluffing....



AGAIN.

You mean you don't admit to spam the videogaming forums daily with some sort of negative article you obviously don't understand in order to mislead (or is it lie? I mean you're pathetically trying to instigate anti-Sony sentiment in KMC by posting misleading titles and misleading articles...so since you equate misleading information with lying does that mean you're a bold-faced liar...?) viewers on the forum.

Which is rather pathetic for a moderator who's JOB is to PREVENT spamming and trolling. Which you've done here. Consistantly....




Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
That's NOT capitalism! That's greed...big difference.I don't know what Communist mumble jumble you're digging. But that's not what is consider good business.


I don't know what sort of ghetto school you just dropped out of.......no. Even the worst school systems in the worst ghettos taught this...

Capitalism IS Greed. Communism ISN'T Greed. Great Scott!



How you managed to cross these two opposing wires is unbeknownst to me.

What is capitalism? Capitialism in a nutshell is to produce and gain as much as you possibly can. We want more, we make more, we buy more, we pay more, we have more. THAT's capitalism. If Capitalism WEREN'T greed....than we would reach a stagnant level of economic activity. We would have no inflation of prices. We would have no rise incomes. Because without greed, we'd eventually be satisfied right?

Good Lord....




Communism....gah....communism is the complete utter opposite of greed. That's why Karl Marx hated capitalism. It was because it was GREED that ran the economic system. Not things like compassion or social concerns. Communism states that we will make as much as we need for everyone. Which isn't greed, now is it?





Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Greed is what Enron did with their employees.

What did they do? They inflated their wages....



What Enron did actually was they overstated their financial statements. They made it sound like they had more money than they had.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
That's greed...Capitalism is business making.

No. Just no. God! I don't think I can deal with this.....

Capitalism isn't "business-making". What the f*ck?

Capitalism is the economic system of free market activity.

ALL economic systems fall under the horrible entry of "business-making" including communism and feudalism and even trading....


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
You do not take legal action to put someone out of business like Sony is doing to Lik-sang.

Sure you do. If they're stealing your money and selling your products that you made for inflated prices that negatively affect your profit margins, you bet your ass you can sue the pants of them.

Oh and by the way. Nintendo's been doing it for years. Since the 90s. Since the days of Gameboy Color. So has Microsoft. Sony just finished them off.




Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
They have a right to file a lawsuit.

No. They don't. That's like saying the car dealer who sells your car for less than the market price and gets 100% of the profit and rips you off by putting costs on your credit deserves to file a lawsuit against you for getting him fired....




Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
But no right to put someone out of business.

Yep. They sure do. Especially when that business is up to illegal activity.




Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
It's ethically wrong

It's ethically right to keep a company that illegally steals money from gaming corporations into their own pockets and spits in the face of the EU law in business...?




Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
and bad terrible business.

How OLD are you? Seriously.

"bad terrible business"

My seven year old sister has better etiquitte.


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Your excuses don't work me either.

That's because you don't understand it. Which isn't surprising since you think that Communism and greed are in bed with each other....




Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
So call this a stalemate.

Honey, this isn't anywhere near a stalemate to the casual observer....


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I don't have side with anyone. I take my side and observed. Which is what you are not doing.

Oh please. Let's not kid ourselves here. You're lying...which is pretty damn hypocritical when you bash Sony for "lying".



Everyone knows you're so anti-Sony to the point that you spam the forums with anti-Sony commentary, articles and posts and abuse your authority doing so.

I know it. You know it.

Unlike the others, I won't let bias allow me to look the other way.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
But back on topic, I had a look at this "controversial sheet" I can see where it's misleading, and where some would have problems, but I think it's fairly obvious that the console works alone and you don't need the wireless controller or drive alone. But companies do this stuff all the time. I guess they could have reworded it for the none gamer types out there, though. But they know parents will look at that if they are buying games. But in that case, wouldn't the Wii look more appealing?

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/5116/sonychartgh0.jpg
off topic slightly, but since when has wii's online access been free just "for the first 6 months"?????
i have not heard that anywhere...all i've heard is this..
-wii-connect24 was completely free with purchasing the wii..
-wii's opera web browser was free to download july next year, and after that you had to spend wii credit thingy's to buy and download it afterwards..
-no extra fees for either of the above..
i could be wrong about that info, but im positively sure it's correct..
EDIT - read the arcticle again...i missed this bit -

Someone on Lik sang forum speaking his mind.

And Sony are greedy f*cking bastards btw (reply to that if you want to, but it won't change my opinion about 'em )

And Draco, calm down

Originally posted by General Kaliero
Who else finds it highly amusing that Draco is, once again, the only one here defending Sony's crap tactics?
I do woot

I dont see why you guys are attacking Draco. He makes perfect sense.

Not when he said that there were no lies in the price comparison chart.

And Draco, WD is not spamming, give that a rest. This is a legitimate thread to open and does not even remotely fit the definition of spamming. If Sony are getting a lot of negative attention righnt now then they have themselves to blame for it, and certainly the point that Sony execs themselves bought from this supplier are grounds for complaint. It may also be noted that if Sony were simply seeking to stop exports it would be one thihg. But they deliberately used a tactic of starting multiple lawsuits in multiple areas to bankrupt Lik-Sang with legal costs. This has done more than restrict imports- it has killed the company, and Sony did it intentionally.

WD is of the opinion that this is a bad thing for Sony to do. You disagree- fine. But don't call it spam just because you don't agree, that's really not on.

Originally posted by Draco69


How OLD are you? Seriously.

"bad terrible business"

My seven year old sister has better etiquitte.



A?

I wonder if Sony could persuade their fans that four legs good, two legs bad.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Not when he said that there were no lies in the price comparison chart.
Call me stupid, but where is there an actual lie? It's misleading, especially to non gamers who buy the stuff for their children. I wouldn't say it's a lie in the absolute sense. If they were going at that angle, wouldn't wii look the best? It would seem like a self-defeating tactic.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Call me stupid, but where is there an actual lie? It's misleading, especially to non gamers who buy the stuff for their children. I wouldn't say it's a lie in the absolute sense. If they were going at that angle, wouldn't wii look the best? It would seem like a self-defeating tactic.

The Core System doesn't actually require you to buy those things.

The ad says that you will require them. It is disingenuous to claim that they are doing that in order to compare like for like, because they have deliberately ignored the other Xbox package, which would work out cheaper.

In terms of the unbalanced comparison, that's not really a lie, more an attempt by Sony to palliate the effects of their ridiculous price.

The Wii does look the best value, but that's because it is. I guess they could have said you might need two of them. Dunno why, but then I don't work in marketing.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
The Core System doesn't actually require you to buy those things.



In terms of the unbalanced comparison, that's not really a lie, more an attempt by Sony to palliate the effects of their ridiculous price.

So it's misleading. I know that. PS3 is expensive, but it costslot to make. I didn't want to argue which is best, because it's off-topic and entirely subjective for each person.

Well, stating things as required when they are not is a lie.

And you know what? Who cares if "that's how advertising is"? Ever heard "two wrongs don't make a right"? Yeah, well, neither does two hundred, or two thousand, or two million...and so on.

Draco, I don't know where you came up with your claims that WD is abusing his powers to spam the forum with anti-Sony stuff. So posting articles that shed your precious Sony in a bad light because of things they've done is a bad thing? Well then I think you're better off finding a different forum to post on. People post tons of various articles, and if a large number happen to be negative things about Sony...well, people can only post what exists, and Sony's been doing themselves NO favor here. Blame Sony, not any of us.

And I will ask you once to cut the condescending hostility I've been seeing in your posts in this thread.

When I look at it I see it as, "To have this... this is required" to non-gamers it's very misleading. I think all gamers know you don't need anything but the console though. That's just me however.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
When I look at it I see it as, "To have this... this is required" to non-gamers it's very misleading. I think all gamers know you don't need anything but the console though. That's just me however.

Most gamers will realize it's complete BS.

But as you say, non-gamers will not realize it, and that's who that factsheet was likely aimed at.

Draco> All you done in this thread is to adopt the typical behaviour and attitude of any Sony fanboy running loose in the internet. Instead of acknowledge the topic at hand you attack me with accusisations (sp?) of spam. Really, why do you attack the messenger? you know, don't even answer. I don't feel like reading another 10,000 word post from you. Let me clear this for you. I don't make the bad news....Sony does. It's their fault. All I do is provide the information.

Also learn to be on topic. I don't know what the hell is Karl Marx and Communist revolution have anything to do with video games. We're talking about how sony help to put these guys are out business.

I know you're prolly trying to bring balance into the thread by defending Sony. The fact is...there is really nothing for you to defend. You want to see me balance this? Here it goes...

Yes, in the past both Nintendo and MS have sued Lik Sang. They won some and lost some. Sony is the only corporation to sue them 16 times at once over the same issue. I'll give you that Lik Sang were no saints. Still, trying to put them out business and to succeed is a dirty malecious ploy in order for Sony to gouge as much money from their units as possible. The battery problem with Dell have left them short of cash. So they're looking to make up that lost money for those battery replacements Whoah! did I went out balance? I'm sorry..but I can't help it.

As for the chart...everyone in this thread have explained it to you. They pointed out the flaws. You're the one failing to accept it. I don't know what else to tell you.

Oh, one more thing....really, that "honey" nonsense is getting old.

Indeed, I'm pretty sure the purpose of such a "fact" sheet, especially right now, is to influence the parents who will soon enough be forced to buy new consoles for their kids, and want the best one for the best price.

And props to WD for the post up there. Succinct and clear. Pity Draco'll ignore it or twist it.

Extremely off-topic but I have the Halo: Combat Evolved Demo on my PC and I need to know what keys to press in order to type information during the multiplayer session in Blood Gulch e.g.

HappyGilmor: Blah, blah, blah.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Not when he said that there were no lies in the price comparison chart.

There WEREN'T any lies. That was my point. It was factual yet of course misleading.

Which is the crux of all advertisement.

What sort of advertisements for consumer goods DOESN'T mislead consumers into believing inaccurate or not necessarily true information.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
And Draco, WD is not spamming, give that a rest.

In my opinion, he is. He is intentionally attempting to instigate anti-Sony sentiment by posting as many negative articles or information about the corporation or their products as he possibly can.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
This is a legitimate thread to open and does not even remotely fit the definition of spamming.

It is most certainly legitimate. However everyone, annoyingly, enough misinterpreted the crux of the issue. I proved them wrong...

Originally posted by Ushgarak
If Sony are getting a lot of negative attention right now then they have themselves to blame for it,

Oh yes, I remember. It all started when Sony announced the PS3 was $600 and people got all fussy. It went downhill from there.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
and certainly the point that Sony execs themselves bought from this supplier are grounds for complaint.

Wrong. Absolutely friggin' wrong.

THINK

Why would a corporation intentionally buy it's OWN products at an inflated price with import taxes? It doesn't make sense...UNLESS they purchased the systems for investigating purposes.

Which is what they did. They bought the systems to investigate HOW Lik-Sang modified them to sell them as import goods to European consumers to see HOW they violated the copyright infringement laws.

I can't just accuse someone of copyright infringement and arbitrage if I don't have any evidence, now can I?


Originally posted by Ushgarak
It may also be noted that if Sony were simply seeking to stop exports it would be one thihg. But they deliberately used a tactic of starting multiple lawsuits in multiple areas to bankrupt Lik-Sang with legal costs.

Lik-Sang was an illegal company sucking profits from Sony and making them incur costs for import taxes, violating the EU laws of importation, selling systems that weren't regulated and thus void of any warranty to gamers and thusly nullifying their consumer rights over the good, making Sony liable for damages via consumer lawsuits, and disrupting the supply of PSPs/PS3s in Japan and Europe. Not to mention they were inflating the market price of their consoles above the price margin that Sony set. As producer of their own friggin' products, they had EVERY reason to sue the living pants of Lik-Sang.

What you people just cannot grasp for some odd reason, is that Lik-Sang was BAD. They were not good people. They are no different from a thief, or a bank robber or a hacker. The ONLY reason they haven't been shut down by the government or charged with felony charges is because China's bizarre "parallel trade" policy (which flies in the face of UN-sanction importation standards) ALLOWS illegal activity like trafficking, copyright infringement, theft of intellectual property and outright nullification of import taxes in other countries. This is how they've gotten so wealthy with textile goods productions.

And Sony was most certainly not alone. RESEARCH people. Nintendo had FOURTEEN pending lawsuits due in the year 2008 (lawsuits take a VERY long time) because Lik-Sang was violating their piracy laws and selling imported Japanese Gamecubes in Europe. Microsoft had nearly TWENTY lawsuits filed against Lik-Sang, because they used mod-ships in the Xbox to make it region-free thus violating not only their copyright laws but ALSO violating the protection of intellectual properties for countless movie studios whose DVDs were played on the Xbox as the mod-chips allowed gamers to download the movies to their harddrive.

Lik-Sang is the "evil" one. Not Sony. Nor Nintendo. Nor Microsoft.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
This has done more than restrict imports- it has killed the company, and Sony did it intentionally.

Yes. They did. They finally finished them off. If ANY of you had read my arguments, understood the economic foreign trade principles of the issues and properly understood the facts of the article, you would agree with me....

Originally posted by Grinning Goku
Extremely off-topic but I have the Halo: Combat Evolved Demo on my PC and I need to know what keys to press in order to type information during the multiplayer session in Blood Gulch e.g.

HappyGilmor: Blah, blah, blah.

Go find the Halo thread and ask there, don't post off-topic in other threads for no reason.

Originally posted by IceJaw


Someone on Lik sang forum speaking his mind.

Whoever wrote that was obviously some 34 year old loser in his grandmother's garage whose only sense of reality is the small window that displays sunlight for approximately 19 minutes per day....

The guy has absolutely no idea what he is talking about.

FACT: Whatever negatively affects the producer, negatively affects the consumer.

If I have originally have $100 for example.

It costs me $50 to make five products.

I sell the product for $11 each to cover my costs and make a profit.

If some schmo from Hong-Kong takes MY products and sells them for $9 each, I lose money.

I don't have as much money as I used to, so I can't make as many products.

I only make two products instead of five. What happens to the price since they are more scarce? They increase. They're $15 now. Consuemrs now have to spend more money on my products.

Using this VERY simple example, you can see why it negatively affects Sony consumers....
And Sony are greedy f*cking bastards btw (reply to that if you want to, but it won't change my opinion about 'em )

Originally posted by IceJaw
And Draco, calm down

I'm calm. But I'm just irritated that people here don't use their brains to think something through. NOTHING is ever simple.

Which I guess is partly my fault because I was obviously expecting to much from people here in KMC forums....

Originally posted by Joker1237
I dont see why you guys are attacking Draco. He makes perfect sense.

Yay! Someone understands sixth-grade economics!

Now can everyone else do the same?

Originally posted by Lana
Draco, I don't know where you came up with your claims that WD is abusing his powers to spam the forum with anti-Sony stuff.

Apparently everyone here is wearing deluxe rose-colored glasses.




Originally posted by Lana
So posting articles that shed your precious Sony in a bad light

Which I have no problem with. As long as they're not taken out of context and followed up with a inflammatory "Sony is just despicable! one-liner...

People won't bother to read the article since ever so much faith is placed in the moderator's authority. Which I've observed. They read HIS words...not the article itself. Which they misinterpret and downright often don't properly understand to begin with.

If he were to just post the article itself WITHOUT the obvious bias and inflammatory language, I wouldn't blink an eye.

The job of the moderator is to remain neutral. Remember, Lana?

Originally posted by Lana
if a large number happen to be negative things about Sony...well, people can only post what exists,

Oh yes of course. The large number of out of context negative Sony articles, many taken from obscure sources, is solely Sony's fault. Sony posted them all here.



Honey, let's not kid ourselves.


Originally posted by Lana
and Sony's been doing themselves NO favor here. Blame Sony, not any of us.

Well, there goes your credibility. You insinuate your bias as it is. As long as it suits YOUR interests, it's fine.

Originally posted by Lana
And I will ask you once to cut the condescending hostility I've been seeing in your posts in this thread.

And ignore the outright "condescending hostility" from others on this forum. Oh I forgot, as long as they're anti-Sony and their views match yours, you're willing to look the other way.

Come on, Lana. You've been a moderator for, what? Five months. You're record is greased enough as it is...

I've been a mod for a year, thanks, and you know jack-all about my 'record'.

And mods are supposed to be neutral in enforcing rules. We don't have to remain thus in a debate. Learn the difference.

Is anyone else here going around insinuating, implying, and flatout calling people stupid? No, I see one single person doing that, and that is you.

You may not know me all well but:

Ok, Leave it out Draco.


Lay off Draco, he has a good argument against WD, but because he's a mod you all hump his leg, if Draco wants to f*cking debate, LET HIM.

Damn i hate people like that.

Again, as proven earlier in the thread, there was an undeniable lie. Sony saying "This is required" when it actually isn't is a lie, plain and simple. To say it's not is to factually be wrong, cut and dry wrong. They are purposely saying something is true when they know it's not, that is the very definition of lying.

And no, WD isn't spamming. You're opinion is wrong there, again. He posted a topic and gave his opinion about it, that's no more spam than you defending Sony.

Besides, if you read WD's first post you'll see that he didn't even say anything derogatory about Sony. He said "This proves they mean business when they sued anyone about their gadgets" and "This can't sit well with other retailers". The following post is you making silly accusations that WD was "spamming anti PS3 threads" and later going on to say there was some "anti ps3 one-liner" when there wasn't, honey.

Originally posted by Sub_Mariner
You may not know me all well but:

Ok, Leave it out Draco.


Lay off Draco, he has a good argument against WD, but because he's a mod you all hump his leg, if Draco wants to f*cking debate, LET HIM.

Damn i hate people like that.

And I hate people who go ahead and jump in to something they don't understand. Humping WD's leg, are we? Hell, I didn't even register the fact that he was a mod 'til today.

Draco does NOT have a good argument. He twists words, exaggerates, and flat out lies, all for the singular purpose of defending actions that have no right to be defended.

Strip away all the past, all the annoyance at the PS3, all the rest of Sony's HORRENDOUS track record, and this isolated case is still a corrupt action. Even if Lik Sang was doing something illegal, what Sony did by suing Lik Sang out of existence is vigilantism, not justice. This should have been a government issue, if the issue at all existed.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Draco> All you done in this thread is to adopt the typical behaviour and attitude of any Sony fanboy running loose in the internet. Instead of acknowledge the topic at hand you attack me with accusisations (sp?) of spam. Really, why do you attack the messenger? you know, don't even answer.

Fanboy? Honey, PLEASE.

Since when do fanboys use actual logic or outright economic information and facts to support their arguments?

What statements here have I posted that would fall under the dialogue of a "fanboy"? I'll answer for you. NONE.

Hell, everyone on this thread was all up in arms...until I calmly, rationally and factually explained why they were misreading the article and outright a dunce about the issue itself.

Than everyone suddenly had nothing to say and started to talk about something else besides the topic, which by the way YOU posted in order to swerve the topic in your favor.

You knew you couldn't match my argument much less argue against it so you decided to continue the anti-Sony sentiment, the very purpose of your post, by posting a out-of-context advertisement. If it were just about the article, you wouldn't have done so and you would have either ceded or continued your argument.

Which you didn't.

And you're the clearly the fanboy here. Let's not kid ourselves here.

Take example, the Superman Returns movie. Someone posted a bad review. You immediately bashed them than you followed up with a warning.

Not abusing your authority, right?




Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Instead of acknowledge the topic at hand you attack me with accusisations (sp?) of spam.

Um. Did ya miss the arguments I made about arbitrage ( I know it's a big word...) import taxes and even my "For Dummies" example with bananas.

PLEASE. I have done NOTHING but address the topic.



Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Really, why do you attack the messenger?

No. I consider you "the boy who cried wolf" or the boy who cries fire when it's really the microwave cooking popcorn....

A messenger just delivers the message. Not graffiti it and make it into your own personal spin.


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I don't feel like reading another 10,000 word post from you. Let me clear this for you.

Ah. Yes. This is a common pathetic tactic that a debater uses in a paltry attempt to deflect or invalidate the other debater's argument by saying "it's too long" or "I don't have time." PLEASE. You spend nearly 80% of your life here. You read EVERYTHING.

You can't counter my arguments so you put up a farce stating you "didn't feel like it."

Nice try.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
All I do is provide the information.

And take it out of context. Delibrately put up a misleading headline, post a inaccurate, clearly biased summary of the article followed by the usual anti-Sony dogma....

Curious?

You never seem to post any other articles except articles that you convinently find to bash Sony. Why?

We know why...?


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Also learn to be on topic.

Take your own advise. Tell me this. What the hell does the "fact-sheet" have to do with Sony's lawsuit against Lik-Sang?

Well, gosh, sir. You're the moderator. You must have any idea why.


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I don't know what the hell is Karl Marx and Communist revolution have anything to do with video games.

Yeah. Here's a tip. When someone posts a thought UNDERNEATH a quote that's yours, that means it's directly attacking your line of thought for that specific quote.

You for some odd reason thought capitalism had nothing to do with greed and was synonmous with communism....

This is also just a rather paltry tactic to disavow any responsibility you had for this ridiculous sentiment and to save yourself from any embarassment.

Didn't work.




Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I know you're prolly trying to bring balance into the thread by defending Sony.

Nooooooo.

I'm trying to get the facts straight. Which I've done. Apparently noone here has an ounce of economic knowledge and can't tell the difference between a legitimate business and illegal one who illegally imports goods....


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
The fact is...there is really nothing for you to defend.

I'm talking to a 32-year old man who can write a coherent sentence much less tell the basic difference between capitalism and communism.

Of COURSE, you can't see the logic of my defense....

You want to see me balance this? Here it goes...


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Yes, in the past both Nintendo and MS have sued Lik Sang.

Actually, up to the point of Lik Sang going out business, the were STILL suing Lik-Sang.

Lawsuits are not settled instantly. They take years. Nintendo had 14 pending lawsuits as of 2006. Microsoft had more than 20.


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Sony is the only corporation to sue them 16 times at once over the same issue.

Wrong. Nintendo filed multiple lawsuits amounting 22 over the mod-ship that would allow piracy in the GameBoy Color.

Microsoft was the same way when they ravaged the X-box's software protection program allowing movie downloads.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I'll give you that Lik Sang were no saints.

No. They weren't. But apparently a business that does illegal business in multiple countries is the lesser evil than company trying to stop the illegal business and respect the law.




Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Still, trying to put them out business and to succeed is a dirty malecious ploy

Trying to put an illegal business out of trade is a "dirty ploy"?

I bet cops who put the drug mobs out of trade are just plain dirty too.



What kind of world do you live in?


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
in order for Sony to gouge as much money from their units as possible.


Wrong. They were trying to save their losses from Lik-Sang's illegal business that negatively affect the gaming industry AND they were responding to the sanctions of the EU Commission of Economic Affairs.


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
The battery problem with Dell have left them short of cash. So they're looking to make up that lost money for those battery replacements

Dear god.

The lawsuit (remember lawsuits take a LONG time to process) has been in affect since the year 2002. They were supplemented as the years passed. They were ALL pending since then.

What? Sony had a magic crystal ball that predict the disastrous battery recall more than four years ago?

And NEWSFLASH: SONY DIDN'T GET ANY MONEY.



Sony didn't win a dime.

Lik-Sang isn't bankrupt. They simply exited the market. They still have their assets and liabilities.

The ONLY thing Lik-Sang may have to pay to Lik-Sang is the legal costs Sony incurred....

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Whoah! did I went out balance? I'm sorry..but I can't help it.

No. You failed miserably. It was like watching a drowning kitten trying to spin against a waterfall.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.




Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Oh, one more thing....really, that "honey" nonsense is getting old.

I used to work with mentally-ill children in a hospital when I was in high school. I used "Honey" alot when they did something stupid or damaging to themselves.

See the trend?

Originally posted by Lana
I've been a mod for a year, thanks, and you know jack-all about my 'record'.

Actually anyone who can read your posts does. It was fine until this summer...


Originally posted by Lana
Is anyone else here going around insinuating, implying, and flatout calling people stupid? No, I see one single person doing that, and that is you.

I have? Where? I haven't insulted anyone. I just insulted their asinine arguements that don't make a lick of sense.

Originally posted by BackFire
Again, as proven earlier in the thread, there was an undeniable lie. Sony saying "This is required" when it actually isn't is a lie, plain and simple. To say it's not is to factually be wrong, cut and dry wrong. They are purposely saying something is true when they know it's not, that is the very definition of lying.

And no, WD isn't spamming. You're opinion is wrong there, again. He posted a topic and gave his opinion about it, that's no more spam than you defending Sony.

Besides, if you read WD's first post you'll see that he didn't even say anything derogatory about Sony. He said "This proves they mean business when they sued anyone about their gadgets" and "This can't sit well with other retailers". The following post is you making silly accusations that WD was "spamming anti PS3 threads" and later going on to say there was some "anti ps3 one-liner" when there wasn't, honey.

If you want to keep the rose-colored glasses and keep up the pretense, fine.

You're just protecting your own.

Originally posted by Draco69
I have? Where? I haven't insulted anyone. I just insulted their asinine arguements that don't make a lick of sense.



Right, you don't ever insult people at all. :

Originally posted by General Kaliero
And I hate people who go ahead and jump in to something they don't understand.

Follow your own advise. You didn't even understand the principles of the article. I had to dumb it down and explain it to you.

Don't jump into a issue that's CLEARLY about economic trade and policy when you don't know crap about it.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
Humping WD's leg, are we?

I'm trying to do the opposite....

Originally posted by General Kaliero
Hell, I didn't even register the fact that he was a mod 'til today.




Oh please.




Originally posted by General Kaliero
Draco does NOT have a good argument.

Yeah. I kinda do. Has ANYONE mounted a credible counter against it? Nope. Has ANYONE posted a different economic perspective? Nope.

Since YOU can't ( you don't have proper knowledge about it) you'll immediately go the best route you can....

Originally posted by General Kaliero
He twists words, exaggerates, and flat out lies, all for the singular purpose of defending actions that have no right to be defended.

Right on cue. You have no proof or evidence or even plausible deniablity to support these ridiculous claims.

So you just go the "shame on you!" approach.


Originally posted by General Kaliero
Strip away all the past, all the annoyance at the PS3, all the rest of Sony's HORRENDOUS track record,

Proof? Don't worry. You probably don't understand it. And I'll explain it to you again....


Originally posted by General Kaliero
and this isolated case is still a corrupt action.

Obeying the law is a corrupt action...what the f*ck?




Originally posted by General Kaliero
Even if Lik Sang was doing something illegal,

If? Do you even know what Lik-Sang DOES? Why can't people understand that Lik-Sang was an illegal business not different from a meth lab?


Originally posted by General Kaliero
what Sony did by suing Lik Sang out of existence is vigilantism, not justice.

They went to court. They presented their case before the London Court. A court of law.

Where's the viglantism?



Originally posted by General Kaliero
This should have been a government issue, if the issue at all existed.

It WAS a government issue...and a corporate issue...and a foreign issue.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
Right, you don't ever insult people at all. :

Are you going to try to counter my economic arguements on page 2 at all?

It WAS for you.

Than do stop wasting our time.

Originally posted by Draco69
If you want to keep the rose-colored glasses and keep up the pretense, fine.

You're just protecting your own.

And you try to condemn people for one-liners.

Hypocrite.

Draco, you HAVE insulted people here, several times. Saying stuff like this...





IS insulting.

And no, for the last time, posting an article and saying this in the first post:

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Not really a Next Gen topic but here is an article regarding the lawsuit agaisn't a major Asian retailer. This proves Sony means business when they sued anyone for their gadgets.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=20561





This could really not set well with other major video game retailers around the world.

Is not immediately going "OMG SONY'S EVIL PS3 SUCK!" It was him stating a fact - that Sony didn't mess around with this - and wondering how other retailers will react and how it will effect him. You immediately jumped with this "More anti-PS3 stuff?" when WD did not even mention the PS3 at all - nor did the article.

And just as BF said. If WD posting articles here is spam, then you debating said articles and defending them is also spam.

Get your facts straight, Draco. Your insulting condescending manner is not welcome, nor is your twisting of the truth, jumping the gun, and hypocrisy. You have directly antagonized four mods in this thread. You then have argued with me asking to stop with the attitude and refused to drop such attitude. Now, how much do you want a warning? Because you're well on your way to get one.

Originally posted by Sub_Mariner
You may not know me all well but:

Ok, Leave it out Draco.


Lay off Draco, he has a good argument against WD, but because he's a mod you all hump his leg, if Draco wants to f*cking debate, LET HIM.

Damn i hate people like that. True, I do as well, but everyone should cut down on the hostility though.

Anyways, moving away from Draco's moaning and bitching.

Here is an update on the situation with Lik Sang and Sony.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
True, I do as well, but everyone should cut down on the hostility though.

Agreed. Rock on C!