i hate god

JesusIsAlive

Originally posted by undercoverninja
enough said
i win
you lose
dont cry
i hate you too
im joking
or am i
maybe
for a baby
before i get married
YAY
another sin under my belt
no
dont cry
i said it earlier
dont cry
seriously dont cry
the next person to post is going to die
im going ot kill them
no
dont cry
im serious
dont make me call upon my satanic powers
im serious
dont make me do it
i will
dont cry
testicle
that is all
goodbye
ladies
im going to leave you now
peace out
P.S. dont cry
and i hate god
and you

But God loves you and so do I in Jesus Name.

John 3:15-17
15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Ephesians 2:3-5
3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

1 John 4:8
He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

1 John 4:10
In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

1 John 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love,
and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.

This is the most outstanding difference between the God of the Bible (Jesus Christ) and the gods of Islam, Sikhism, Hinduism, and the like. The God of the Bible is love. Love is a Person--Jesus the Christ.

Impediment

Is that your own words or some kind of song, undercoverninja?

Capt_Fantastic

Is that your own words or some kind of fairy tale, JesusIsAlive.

JesusIsAlive

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Is that your own words or some kind of fairy tale, JesusIsAlive.

No those are the words of God the Father and He cannot lie.

Capt_Fantastic

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
No those are the words of God the Father and He cannot lie.

God can't lie? So, he's limited? There's something he can't do?

Imperial_Samura

debbiejo

I feel that a god would not REQUIRE.........

JesusIsAlive

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
God can't lie? So, he's limited? There's something he can't do?

God cannot lie because He is Truth. Limited? I see this as a blessing than a limitation for if God could lie it would imply that God is a sinner. If God were a sinner we would all be in trouble because there isn't anyone capable of restraining God. There isn't anyone bigger or stronger than God. God would be capable of being the biggest, most menacing bully that has ever existed. Man, the thought of that alone would terrify me if it were true. Just think about it: there is no "God" law enforcement to keep God in check or to curb His lawlessness if God were a sinner, so who would protect us from Him? He could do anything that He wants to us and we would be utterly helpless to stop Him.

But thank God that He cannot lie, is not a man that He should lie, and that it is impossible for God to lie! Hallelujah! God is holy! God is righteous! God is just! God is compassionate! God is lovingkind! God is merciful! God is Love (personified)!

Imperial_Samura

If only truth was absolute.

God probably could lie but would still be called truth because he is God.

Just like he can kill but not be a murderer because he Is God.

Just like he can let his Children suffer terribly and without fault of their own but still be called a loving father who loves us more then anything. Because he IS God.

Just like he stand by and allow the supposed Sadism of Hell whereas a person who knew about something like that and did nothing would be liable under the law. Because he is God.

It is easy to be sinless when one works under the clause "no rules apply to me and thus I can never break them and thus I am sinless."

JesusIsAlive

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
If only truth was absolute.

God probably could lie but would still be called truth because he is God.

Just like he can kill but not be a murderer because he Is God.

Just like he can let his Children suffer terribly and without fault of their own but still be called a loving father who loves us more then anything. Because he IS God.

Just like he stand by and allow the supposed Sadism of Hell whereas a person who knew about something like that and did nothing would be liable under the law. Because he is God.

It is easy to be sinless when one works under the clause "no rules apply to me and thus I can never break them and thus I am sinless."

The last time you sounded this cynical and bitter I wrote this post but you did not respond to it except to say that I was in fact going off on a tanget:

Why do you sound so cynical and bitter? God is righteous, holy, and just. It is abundantly indicative in your tone that you don't know God personally, which is perhaps why I perceive that you sound so hurt or frustrated with God. You seem to want to know and understand God but your anger (which stems from your lack of knowledge about God's ways) is an impediment for you. God can and will get rid of your anger if you allow Him to love you. Maybe your earthly father failed you in some way and perhaps this is the root of your rancor towards God. But God is not your problem, I assure you of this. God has never done anything to you but good. Your enemies are satan, demons, and other people who are not fully submitted to God.

God and His ways are so past finding out (i.e. they are so profoundly mysterious except where God wills and chooses to make His ways known) that one illustration is not sufficient to adequately describe His multi-faceted ways (remember God is infinite). I used the parent-child analogy to describe the guiltlessness of God in terms of His children's behavior. But I have only dealt with one aspect of God's dealings with His creation. But you see God wears more than one hat as it were. God is not just our true Father, but He is our Judge as well. Hence, God must judge sinners for their sins. God is righteous and just. He does not take bribes and cannot be persuaded to adjudicate corruptly. That is why Adam and Eve died because they were separated from God (i.e. the Source of all life). God will not violate your free will. As much as God wants you to be saved and spend eternity at His feet learning from Him all of His mysteries, He will not override your free will. Did your parents not give you options as you grew up in their home? They gave you certain parameters (if they were good parents). They didn't just say, "Alright son, you are two years old now, you are on your own. We will let you do your own thing because we don't want to force you to do something that you don't want to do. We don't want to hinder or repress you in any way. We want you to prosper and flourish, so express yourself as you see fit." I am sure that is what your parents told you. No, that is not what they told you. I am positive that your parents laid down some ground rules to guide you and keep you headed in the right direction. So I said all that to say this: God has set boundaries for His creation but there is still ample room within the scope of God's will for us to express ourselves and be full of joy unspeakable and full of glory. Furthermore, God has to allow every single person to exercise their free will. As a result, there are times when in the process of folks exercising their free will, that what they do encroaches on our lives personally. For example, has someone ever cut you off in traffic? Has someone ever spread malicious rumors about you behind your back? Have you ever been in a physical altercation? Have you ever had something stolen from you? Has someone ever verbally abused you? These are all examples of other people exercising their free will even to your detriment. But here is the good news: God will protect you from certain things that people attempt to do against you. Now, why some people are protected and others are not, is all in the wisdom, purpose, plan, and counsel of Almighty God. Some people believe that if they just have enough faith that they will not go through certain things. This is partly true. But friend, there are just some things that not even faith will override because it may just be the will of God for you to experience that. For instance, we all have an appointment with death. So when that time comes there is nothing we can do to escape it. Am I going off on a tangent here?

Imperial_Samura

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The last time you sounded this cynical and bitter I wrote this post but you did not respond to it:

Actually I did respond to it in the first thread you posted it in. Then you posted it again in another thread and I said it is a tangent to post something off topic from another thread that I have already responded to. And now you post it here and I tell you again that I responded to it first time.

And it doesn't change the fact it is a valid point.

Is it, or is it not, easy to be sin free when one removes themselves the powers of the law? Is it not all to simple to be perfect when one refuses to let ones actions define them?

Did God, or did God not, kill? Yes. But this doesn't reflect badly as he has a shield of "I am good, ergo if I kill it is also good, and as such no murder. Thus I am still sinless."

Is that right? Do you believe there are men who should be above man made laws? If not by extension is it right we have the concept of a God above its own laws? That is the image of a dictator (I am the king, the law is not high enough to touch me.)

JesusIsAlive

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Actually I did respond to it in the first thread you posted it in. Then you posted it again in another thread and I said it is a tangent to post something off topic from another thread that I have already responded to. And now you post it here and I tell you again that I responded to it first time.

And it doesn't change the fact it is a valid point.

Is it, or is it not, easy to be sin free when one removes themselves the powers of the law? Is it not all to simple to be perfect when one refuses to let ones actions define them?

Did God, or did God not, kill? Yes. But this doesn't reflect badly as he has a shield of "I am good, ergo if I kill it is also good, and as such no murder. Thus I am still sinless."

Is that right? Do you believe there are men who should be above man made laws? If not by extension is it right we have the concept of a God above its own laws? That is the image of a dictator (I am the king, the law is not high enough to touch me.)

Re-read my post it should clear up your ill-logical conceptions.

Imperial_Samura

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Re-read my post it should clear up your ill-logical conceptions.

Your post does not deal with the question I raise, it simply glosses over it with the catch all "God is to great for us to understand, so just go with it."

Give me you answer - yes or no - to the following.

As a human do you believe it right that men should be above man-made laws?

As a human do you believe a Dictator is glory incarnate because he rules on the concept "I am the king, no law is high enough to touch me, thus I am perfect"?

As a human do you believe it is correct then that we have the concept of a God whose sinlessness is based upon the fact it says it is above everything?

Has God killed?

Was it murder?

If no then how come it is not murder? Was it not premeditated? Was it not killing of people incapable of defending themselves?

JesusIsAlive

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Your post does not deal with the question I raise, it simply glosses over it with the catch all "God is to great for us to understand, so just go with it."

Give me you answer - yes or no - to the following.

As a human do you believe it right that men should be above man-made laws?

As a human do you believe a Dictator is glory incarnate because he rules on the concept "I am the king, no law is high enough to touch me, thus I am perfect"?

As a human do you believe it is correct then that we have the concept of a God whose sinlessness is based upon the fact it says it is above everything?

Has God killed?

Was it murder?

If no then how come it is not murder? Was it not premeditated? Was it not killing of people incapable of defending themselves?

Here is what I told Lana concening this similar subject:

Originally posted by Lana
In other words, you cannot answer so you are making it out to be my fault.

Dodging the questions. Just as I called it.

I knew I was correct in deeming this not worth any time or effort.

God is sovereign Lana. You, me, and everyone else are not. God is Judge of all the earth, it is to Him that all people will answer for their sins, not the other way around. So having said all of that, God can arbitrarily choose to bring someone's life to an end in punishment for sin. It is His prerogative (i.e. exclusive right).

Imperial_Samura

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Here is what I told Lana concening this similar subject:

God is sovereign Lana. You, me, and everyone else are not. God is Judge of all the earth, it is to Him that all people will answer for their sins, not the other way around. So having said all of that, God can arbitrarily choose to bring someone's life to an end in punishment for sin. It is His prerogative.

Not an answer to the rather simple questions I posed, and not truly dealing with the questions I asked.

Simple - Is a king who claims not to be bound by the laws pure because he can never be charged with a crime? YES/NO

Is a king who claims not to be bound by the laws pure because he can never be charged with a crime? YES/NO

Were the Children of Egypt deserving of death? YES/NO

Did God commit murder by killing them? YES/NO

Do you realise that murder with perceived cause is still classified as murder, though the cause acts as a mitigating factor? YES/NO

Has God done things that if done by a human would classify as a sin? YES/NO

In conclusion - if God didn't have the "I'm above the law" clause would he still be sinless? YES/NO

Morgoths_Wrath

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
But thank God that He cannot lie, is not a man that He should lie, and that it is impossible for God to lie! Hallelujah! God is holy! God is righteous! God is just! God is compassionate! God is lovingkind! God is merciful! God is Love (personified)!

If God is all of those things, why does He allow evil to exist? If He is all-powerful (omnipotent), that is.

"Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. ... If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. ... If, as they say, God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?"
~Epicurus

Shakyamunison

The god of the bible is a fictional god; No different then the gods of Greek mythology.

Morgoths_Wrath

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The god of the bible is a fictional god; No different then the gods of Greek mythology.

but...but....Jesus is ALIVE!

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
but...but....Jesus is ALIVE!

Perhaps he has been reincarnated by now.

Imperial_Samura

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Perhaps he has been reincarnated by now.

Wouldn't it have been many times by now? Unless he reached the highest point of the cycle?

Morgoths_Wrath

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Wouldn't it have been many times by now? Unless he reached the highest point of the cycle?

I thought Jesus was a bodhisattva confused

Imperial_Samura

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
I thought Jesus was a bodhisattva confused

I thought he was a hippy.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Wouldn't it have been many times by now? Unless he reached the highest point of the cycle?

It would have been many times by now, but maybe he has reached the highest point. I don't know. smile

Morgoths_Wrath

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
I thought he was a hippy.

no, hippies were all about putting down the Man. Jesus was down with paying taxes...at least to Caesar

Imperial_Samura

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
no, hippies were all about putting down the Man. Jesus was down with paying taxes.

Unless it happens in the temple, in which case he'll bust up the joint.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
I thought Jesus was a bodhisattva confused

I have heard Buddhist teachers who have read the words of Jesus say that he was a bodhisattva.

JesusIsAlive

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
If God is all of those things, why does He allow evil to exist? If He is all-powerful (omnipotent), that is.

"Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. ... If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. ... If, as they say, God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?"
~Epicurus

Man, what were you like as a kid? I mean if you have this many questions at your age you must have been an extremely inquisitive child. "Mommy, why is the sky blue, why is grass green, why is water clear, why is milk white, while is oatmeal mushy, etc." I am just kidding--please don't take offense to this. Seriously though pal, there are some things that are only knowable in the mind and sublime counsel of Almighty God. He knows (in His great omniscience) why all things are the way that they are. I have great trust (even though I don't have all the answers to life's questions) that God will be vindicated in the eyes of all of his accusers, criticizers, and detractors. I have not a modicum of doubt about this fact. Just because your little finite mind (relative to God's infinite mind) cannot understand the mysteries of the human experience that does not mean that it is not knowable or that the answer does not exist outside of this reality that we call "life." God has all the answers. I can't wait to see Him expound, illuminate, and elucidate to all of humanity why things were, are, and perhaps will be the way that they have been, are right now, and are yet to be in the future. (Did I just confuse myself?) Anyhoo, all I am saying is that God will be shown to be justified for time and eternity one day. I wait with bated breath for the arrival of this time. I will do everything in my power to not say, "See, I told you all so!" "I knew you were just (i.e. righteous, equitable, and just plain good) Heavenly Father!"

Imperial_Samura

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Man, what were you like as a kid? I mean if you have this many questions at your age you must have been an extremely inquisitive child. "Mommy, why is the sky blue, why is grass green, why is water clear, why is milk white, while is oatmeal mushy, etc." I am just kidding--please don't take offense to this. Seriously though pal, there are some things that are only knowable in the mind and sublime counsel of Almighty God. He knows (in His great omniscience) why all things are the way that they are. I have great trust (even though I don't have all the answers to life's questions) that God will be vindicated in the eyes of all of his accusers, criticizers, and detractors. I have not a modicum of doubt about this fact. Just because your little finite mind (relative to God's infinite mind) cannot understand the mysteries of the human experience that does not mean that it is not knowable or that the answer does not exist outside of this reality that we call "life." God has all the answers. I can't wait to see Him expound, illuminate, and elucidate to all of humanity why things were, are, and perhaps will be the way that they have been, are right now, and are yet to be in the future. (Did I just confuse myself?) Anyhoo, all I am saying is that God will be shown to be justified for time and eternity one day. I wait with bated breath for the arrival of this time. I will do everything in my power to not say, "See, I told you all so!" "I knew you were just Heavenly Father!"

So essentially its a "God works in mysterious ways" situation.

You still haven't answered my earlier questions.

Morgoths_Wrath

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Man, what were you like as a kid? I mean if you have this many questions at your age you must have been an extremely inquisitive child. "Mommy, why is the sky blue, why is grass green, why is water clear, why is milk white, while is oatmeal mushy, etc." I am just kidding--please don't take offense to this. Seriously though pal, there are some things that are only knowable in the mind and sublime counsel of Almighty God. He knows (in His great omniscience) why all things are the way that they are. I have great trust (even though I don't have all the answers to life's questions) that God will be vindicated in the eyes of all of his accusers, criticizers, and detractors. I have not a modicum of doubt about this fact. Just because your little finite mind (relative to God's infinite mind) cannot understand the mysteries of the human experience that does not mean that it is not knowable or that the answer does not exist outside of this reality that we call "life." God has all the answers. I can't wait to see Him expound, illuminate, and elucidate to all of humanity why things were, are, and perhaps will be the way that they have been, are right now, and are yet to be in the future. (Did I just confuse myself?) Anyhoo, all I am saying is that God will be shown to be justified for time and eternity one day. I wait with bated breath for the arrival of this time. I will do everything in my power to not say, "See, I told you all so!" "I knew you were just (i.e. righteous, equitable, and just plain good) Heavenly Father!"

Not a clear answer, but I can respect your faith, I suppose. So long as you respect other people's beliefs.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
Not a clear answer, but I can respect your faith, I suppose. So long as you respect other people's beliefs.

Don't hold your breath. He views all other religions as the work of Satan. Just ask him.

JesusIsAlive

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
but...but....Jesus is ALIVE!

You got that right brudda. Jesus is indeed alive. Go ahead Jesus, you tell 'em,

(These are the true recorded words of Jesus Christ):

Revelation 1:18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.

Alrighty then Jesus! (I can't wait to see Jesus in all of His splendor, majesty, and glory).

Happy Dance

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You got that right brudda. Jesus is indeed alive. Go ahead Jesus, you tell 'em,

(These are the true recorded words of Jesus Christ):

Revelation 1:18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.

Alrighty then Jesus! (I can't wait to see Jesus in all of His splendor, majesty, and glory).

Happy Dance

Yes, he has been reincarnated.

Morgoths_Wrath

well, if you accept that he ascended into Heaven, then yes. He IS alive.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Don't hold your breath. He views all other religions as the work of Satan. Just ask him.

you really think that? zero telerance level for other religions or just think they are the work of Satan but still accept their right to believe for something else?

Shakyamunison

JesusIsAlive

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Not an answer to the rather simple questions I posed, and not truly dealing with the questions I asked.

Simple - Is a king who claims not to be bound by the laws pure because he can never be charged with a crime? YES/NO

Is a king who claims not to be bound by the laws pure because he can never be charged with a crime? YES/NO

Were the Children of Egypt deserving of death? YES/NO

Did God commit murder by killing them? YES/NO

Do you realise that murder with perceived cause is still classified as murder, though the cause acts as a mitigating factor? YES/NO

Has God done things that if done by a human would classify as a sin? YES/NO

In conclusion - if God didn't have the "I'm above the law" clause would he still be sinless? YES/NO

This last post of mine is very apropos to your line of questions so I will repost it this one time only.

"...there are some things that are only knowable in the mind and sublime counsel of Almighty God. He knows (in His great omniscience) why all things are the way that they are. I have great trust (even though I don't have all the answers to life's questions) that God will be vindicated in the eyes of all of his accusers, criticizers, and detractors. I have not a modicum of doubt about this fact. Just because your little finite mind (relative to God's infinite mind) cannot understand the mysteries of the human experience that does not mean that it is not knowable or that the answer does not exist outside of this reality that we call "life." God has all the answers. I can't wait to see Him expound, illuminate, and elucidate to all of humanity why things were, are, and perhaps will be the way that they have been, are right now, and are yet to be in the future. (Did I just confuse myself?) Anyhoo, all I am saying is that God will be shown to be justified for time and eternity one day. I wait with bated breath for the arrival of this time. I will do everything in my power to not say, "See, I told you all so!" "I knew you were just (i.e. righteous, equitable, and just plain good) Heavenly Father!"

Morgoths_Wrath

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't know to that level, but I have known Christians like JIA and they would only condemn you, if you were not a Christian.

yeah, I know some like that too. It doesn't seem right that Muslims, Buddhist, Jews, Hindus, etc should be condemned by Christians just because they don't believe Jesus was God. If (IF!) they follow their own beliefs and do no harm to anyone, what is so evil in that? In what way are they corrupted?

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
yeah, I know some like that too. It doesn't seem right that Muslims, Buddhist, Jews, Hindus, etc should be condemned by Christians just because they don't believe Jesus was God. If (IF!) they follow their own beliefs and do no harm to anyone, what is so evil in that? In what way are they corrupted?

When I was a Christian, I was told that people like Muslims, Buddhist, and Hindus where possessed by demons. Anything good about them was depicted as Satan trying to copy god in order to deceive people. I was brainwashed and blinded to what was really going on in the world. I believe that it is a way of controlling people.

JesusIsAlive

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
well, if you accept that he ascended into Heaven, then yes. He IS alive.

you really think that? zero telerance level for other religions or just think they are the work of Satan but still accept their right to believe for something else?

I almost feel bad (but I know better) and believe me I do sympathize and commiserate with you Morgoths_Wrath and everyone else on this forum and abroad because I know that I know that my know knows that Jesus Christ is true, that the Bible is true, and that everything that the Bible says about sin, salvation through Jesus Christ and everything else for that matter, is true. But...I don't know that I can prove this to you or anyone else....I wish I could personally take everyone of you to Heaven so that you could see just how beautiful (and real) Heaven is. I wish I could personally escort each of you to God's throne room in Heaven so that you could all see the Father and His Son Jesus seated in sovereign, regal, majesty, glory, and excellent splendor.

But I can't so ain't no point in wishful thinking. So just telling you will have to suffice until I can figure out a way to do this. (I know what you all are thinking: "He has lost it, I knew that he was gone, here is definitive proof." wink

Morgoths_Wrath

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
When I was a Christian, I was told that people like Muslims, Buddhist, and Hindus where possessed by demons. Anything good about them was depicted as Satan trying to copy god in order to deceive people. I was brainwashed and blinded to what was really going on in the world. I believe that it is a way of controlling people.

Certainly. And I think this is a dangerous aspect of Christianity...this intolerance of other people's religions. I mean, if you're truly Christian, it must be hard to accept other people's religions and let them be. After all, those people must be going to hell for a reason, right? They must be converted, right?

If GOD isn't even tolerant of other people's religions, why should anyone else?

Scary.

JesusIsAlive

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
Certainly. And I think this is a dangerous aspect of Christianity...this intolerance of other people's religions. I mean, if you're truly Christian, it must be hard to accept other people's religions and let them be. After all, those people must be going to hell for a reason, right? They must be converted, right?

If GOD isn't even tolerant of other people's religions, why should anyone else?

Scary.

But did you read my last post (it is before this one)?

Morgoths_Wrath

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I almost feel bad (but I know better) and believe me I do sympathize and commiserate with you Morgoths_Wrath and everyone else on this forum and abroad because I know that I know that my know knows that Jesus Christ is true, that the Bible is true, and that everything that the Bible says about sin, salvation through Jesus Christ and everything else for that matter, is true. But...I don't know that I can prove this to you or anyone else....I wish I could personally take everyone of you to Heaven so that you could see just how beautiful (and real) Heaven is. I wish I could personally escort each of you to God's throne room in Heaven so that you could all see the Father and His Son Jesus seated in sovereign, regal, majesty, glory, and excellent splendor.

But I can't so ain't no point in wishful thinking. So just telling you will have to suffice until I can figure out a way to do this. (I know what you all are thinking: "He has lost it, I knew that he was gone, here is definitive proof." wink

no, you're not entirely crazy. I think you do believe the Bible and God's teachings are true. I mean, it would be great if what you said was true, and that there is a wonderful place like Heaven people can go to after they die if they follow a certain set of rules laid out by a benevolent God who is rooting for you the whole time...but I just have a hard time believing this. I mean, one can say all i have to do is believe and it is real, but this goes against my way of thinking. I mean, it would be nice if there was a God, I might even go as far as to say I WISH there were a God so there might be a chance I could go to a place like Heaven after I die, but I really just don't believe in my heart, and if I said I believed in God I would just be fooling myself.

JesusIsAlive

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
no, you're not entirely crazy. I think you do believe the Bible and God's teachings are true. I mean, it would be great if what you said was true, and that there is a wonderful place like Heaven people can go to after they die if they follow a certain set of rules laid out by a benevolent God who is rooting for you the whole time...but I just have a hard time believing this. I mean, one can say all i have to do is believe and it is real, but this goes against my way of thinking. I mean, it would be nice if there was a God, I might even go as far as to say I WISH there were a God so there might be a chance I could go to a place like Heaven after I die, but I really just don't believe in my heart, and if I said I believed in God I would just be fooling myself.

Question: have you ever asked God to reveal whether He is true or not? Tell you what, when you have time, and there are no distractions and no one in the house to interrupt you, ask God (in your own words and in your own way) to come into your heart and make Himself real to you. You do not have to use my script just tell Jesus to come into your life if He is true. I know you said that you don't believe etc. But just do your best to communicate to Jesus Christ that you want Him to come into your heart/life if He is true and real.

Pandemoniac

Now that is a good approach, but let's not confuse things up. You're talking about trying to communicate with God, but then you seem to say that Jesus will be the one picking up the phone. What's up with that?

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
Certainly. And I think this is a dangerous aspect of Christianity...this intolerance of other people's religions. I mean, if you're truly Christian, it must be hard to accept other people's religions and let them be. After all, those people must be going to hell for a reason, right? They must be converted, right?

If GOD isn't even tolerant of other people's religions, why should anyone else?

Scary.

I agree. Maybe that is one reason I am a Buddhist today.

JesusIsAlive

Originally posted by Pandemoniac
Now that is a good approach, but let's not confuse things up. You're talking about trying to communicate with God, but then you seem to say that Jesus will be the one picking up the phone. What's up with that?

Jesus and God the Father are one God, but not one Person. Thus, Jesus is God.

Imperial_Samura

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
This last post of mine is very apropos to your line of questions so I will repost it this one time only.

"...there are some things that are only knowable in the mind and sublime counsel of Almighty God. He knows (in His great omniscience) why all things are the way that they are. I have great trust (even though I don't have all the answers to life's questions) that God will be vindicated in the eyes of all of his accusers, criticizers, and detractors. I have not a modicum of doubt about this fact. Just because your little finite mind (relative to God's infinite mind) cannot understand the mysteries of the human experience that does not mean that it is not knowable or that the answer does not exist outside of this reality that we call "life." God has all the answers. I can't wait to see Him expound, illuminate, and elucidate to all of humanity why things were, are, and perhaps will be the way that they have been, are right now, and are yet to be in the future. (Did I just confuse myself?) Anyhoo, all I am saying is that God will be shown to be justified for time and eternity one day. I wait with bated breath for the arrival of this time. I will do everything in my power to not say, "See, I told you all so!" "I knew you were just (i.e. righteous, equitable, and just plain good) Heavenly Father!"

You seem to be falling over the same hurdle every time, and badly.

You said my questions where illogical - I am not asking you for what the Bible says, I am not asking you to quibble out loud "but when the time comes I'm sure God will be shown as justified."

I gave you a list of questions with simple yes or no answers. I asked you, as a human with an apparently free will, to answer them - yes, no. Simple. Not post the same justification for those actions. I don't care for the justification (especially when it makes my point since the justification seems to be "He's God. He does stuff that we can't possibly understand."

The questions. That is what I want. Your answers to them. Not some preaching sugar coated description of God. Funny, when it comes to the bad things its all "God can't be understood" but when it is advertising the "good stuff" you can go on and on. Like a used car salesmen:

Salesmen: Blah blah blah blah air con blah blah blah anti-rust blah blah blah..."

Me: "So what about all this talk of this model exploding when caught in rain?"

Salesmen: "The mechanics are beyond us both, but I'm sure when the time comes you'll be glad you bought this car blah blah blah seatbelts"

Me: "Um, that's not an answer, I want to know how..."

Salesman: "We could talk about that till the cow comes home, lets just agree it is beyond us both."

Me: "Then I'm not interested."

So why don't you try again - your opinion. Lets see how illogical my views are - I want the simple yes/no answers here, I don't want to see the above pasted again as I have reiterated why it doesn't constitute an answer.

Pandemoniac

Well I ain't thoroughly educated on this subject so correct me if I'm messing up.
Jesus is Gods representative on this world, but not Gods direct reflection nor true self. Jesus is Gods purest embodiment in the human flesh, but still part man, and after all just a secretary through which he voices himself.
So when I want to talk to God, I wouldn't want Jesus on the phone, no matter how much he kicks ass, I would want the real deal, the man with the plan, himself Almighty.
Else it would be like ordering a big mac and getting served with only a plain hamburger.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Pandemoniac
Well I ain't thoroughly educated on this subject so correct me if I'm messing up.
Jesus is Gods representative on this world, but not Gods direct reflection nor true self. Jesus is Gods purest embodiment in the human flesh, but still part man, and after all just a secretary through which he voices himself.
So when I want to talk to God, I wouldn't want Jesus on the phone, no matter how much he kicks ass, I would want the real deal, the man with the plan, himself Almighty.
Else it would be like ordering a big mac and getting served with only a plain hamburger.

It is simpler then that. The Jesus is god thing was made up to made Jesus divine. This was done for power. BTW look up Constantine.

Pandemoniac

I'm well aware of the Jesus(tm) marketing, my previous post itself was directed at JSA, it just happened to get posted after yours. Doesn't matter, I like your point of view and insight.

JesusIsAlive

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
You seem to be falling over the same hurdle every time, and badly.

You said my questions where illogical - I am not asking you for what the Bible says, I am not asking you to quibble out loud "but when the time comes I'm sure God will be shown as justified."

I gave you a list of questions with simple yes or no answers. I asked you, as a human with an apparently free will, to answer them - yes, no. Simple. Not post the same justification for those actions. I don't care for the justification (especially when it makes my point since the justification seems to be "He's God. He does stuff that we can't possibly understand."

The questions. That is what I want. Your answers to them. Not some preaching sugar coated description of God. Funny, when it comes to the bad things its all "God can't be understood" but when it is advertising the "good stuff" you can go on and on. Like a used car salesmen:

Salesmen: Blah blah blah blah air con blah blah blah anti-rust blah blah blah..."

Me: "So what about all this talk of this model exploding when caught in rain?"

Salesmen: "The mechanics are beyond us both, but I'm sure when the time comes you'll be glad you bought this car blah blah blah seatbelts"

Me: "Um, that's not an answer, I want to know how..."

Salesman: "We could talk about that till the cow comes home, lets just agree it is beyond us both."

Me: "Then I'm not interested."

So why don't you try again - your opinion. Lets see how illogical my views are - I want the simple yes/no answers here, I don't want to see the above pasted again as I have reiterated why it doesn't constitute an answer.

Let me preface what I will say with first saying this: there are some things that God has chosen not to disclose to His creation. I don't have a problem with this. But some people demand to know the whys behind the whats if you know what I mean. But the Bible clearly states that it is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and that the secret things belong to God. Now, where was I? Samura, there are times in my conversations with people that I encounter questions that I deem fall outside of my purview in terms of whether or not I can or should attempt to answer them. I sincerely believe that there are certain questions that I should not even attempt to extrapolate, speculate, or conjecture in order to answer. I do not want to be guilty of going out on a limb as it were to explain something that God has clearly or apparently kept hidden from our knowledge. I am not privy to many of God's secret or hidden truths (i.e. mysteries). There is a reason why some things are not revealed to us in the Bible. Again, I will not speculate why those things are not available to satisfy our curiousity. But rest assured God will make all things known to His children at some point in time. I could give you my opinions but that is not my assignment. I am not here to give my opinions per se on critical, highly controversial questions such as the ones that you raised. I want my answers to be validatable by the Bible. So until I can substantiate what I say with the Bible I will refrain from responding to certain moot or highly debatable subject matter. Besides I am not at all polemic, and I do not feed off of controversy. My food is to do the will of Him Who has sent me and to finish the work that He has given me. That is it.

Imperial_Samura

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Let me preface what I will say with first saying this: there are some things that God has chosen not to disclose to His creation. I don't have a problem with this. But some people demand to know the whys behind the whats if you know what I mean. But the Bible clearly states that it is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and that the secret things belong to God. Now, where was I? Samura, there are times in my conversations with people that I encounter questions that I deem fall outside of my purview in terms of whether or not I can or should attempt to answer them. I sincerely believe that there are certain questions that I should not even attempt to extrapolate, speculate, or conjecture in order to answer. I do not want to be guilty of going out on a limb as it were to explain something that God has clearly or apparently kept hidden from our knowledge. I am not privy to many of God's secret or hidden truths (i.e. mysteries). There is a reason why some things are not revealed to us in the Bible. Again, I will not speculate why those things are not available to satisfy our curiousity. But rest assured God will make all things known to His children at some point in time. I could give you my opinions but that is not my assignment. I am not here to give my opinions per se on critical, highly controversial questions such as the ones that you raised. I want my answers to be validatable by the Bible. So until I can substantiate what I say with the Bible I will refrain from responding to certain moot or highly debatable subject matter. Besides I am not at all polemic, and I do not feed off of controversy. My food is to do the will of Him Who has sent me and to finish the work that He has given me. That is it.

Sigh. You can argue against evolution, against other religions you have no real experiance or knowledge of and the like, but when something comes up that you believe might work against your arguments suddenly you drop back on "I sincerely believe that there are certain questions that I should not even attempt to extrapolate, speculate, or conjecture in order to answer." So essentially you are taking your ball and going home in order to avoid... what?

Heh. Amazing, if I may say so myself. God creates us in his image and with a free will because he wants living, breathing, thinking creations, but you refuse to give your opinion on perfectly acceptable questions:

I'm not sure how it can be any simpler. Are you telling me if a politician did something in your country that was legally bad for all other people, but because he was a politician wouldn't stand trial you wouldn't have an opinion? You'd say "I'll leave that to the philosophers, it doesn't matter if I am a living, thinking human, I won't comment."?

Once again I point out I am not asking you to justify God's acts. I am not asking for the whole "it will make sense eventually" - I am asking what you as a person think of the above question. I can not empathise enough I am not looking for Biblical double think - just yes or no to them. The fact remains God has chosen not to answer the questions himself - either through nonexistence of some obtuse plan, and since you can debate the vagaries of the Bible based upon interpretation I don't see why you can't answer questions fully in the human realm.

Pandemoniac

Hmmm, so God is quite like our governments; playing the people while holding back the truly crucial information, which can be something a whole less joyful that he wants us to know.
Makes you wonder, global leaders only need a couple of years to persuade their followers in to wars, so what might God have in store after ages of persuasion?

Imperial_Samura

Ahhh, JIA, in honor of Elan I feel like composing an invigorating Bard song....

"Dodge, Dodge, Dodge Imperials question. Come up with an answer that isn't really based on his question...."

There will be some tra-la-la's in there, and it will be accompanied by the bagpipes.

JesusIsAlive

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Sigh. You can argue against evolution, against other religions you have no real experiance or knowledge of and the like, but when something comes up that you believe might work against your arguments suddenly you drop back on "I sincerely believe that there are certain questions that I should not even attempt to extrapolate, speculate, or conjecture in order to answer." So essentially you are taking your ball and going home in order to avoid... what?

Heh. Amazing, if I may say so myself. God creates us in his image and with a free will because he wants living, breathing, thinking creations, but you refuse to give your opinion on perfectly acceptable questions:

I'm not sure how it can be any simpler. Are you telling me if a politician did something in your country that was legally bad for all other people, but because he was a politician wouldn't stand trial you wouldn't have an opinion? You'd say "I'll leave that to the philosophers, it doesn't matter if I am a living, thinking human, I won't comment."?

Once again I point out I am not asking you to justify God's acts. I am not asking for the whole "it will make sense eventually" - I am asking what you as a person think of the above question. I can not empathise enough I am not looking for Biblical double think - just yes or no to them. The fact remains God has chosen not to answer the questions himself - either through nonexistence of some obtuse plan, and since you can debate the vagaries of the Bible based upon interpretation I don't see why you can't answer questions fully in the human realm.

A politician is not God and God is not a politician. It does not matter what I think. Friend, I do not know why you have such a hard time with this. If it is in the Bible and within my scope of answering then I will. But remember, I take my orders from Jesus Christ not you so don't get upset with me if I choose not to answer certain questions.

Lord Urizen

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
God cannot lie because He is Truth. Limited? I see this as a blessing than a limitation for if God could lie it would imply that God is a sinner.

Well God DOES kill....does not that make him a sinner ?

What about the biblical fact that God banishes those who do not beleive in him into an eternity of torment ? Is not that a sin ?

don_roberts

i hate god 2

JacopeX

crazy

redcaped

I'm just disappointed.

debbiejo

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes, he has been reincarnated. Yes I did.. cool

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by debbiejo
Yes I did.. cool

Jesus was insane, and so are you. stick out tongue

debbiejo

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Jesus was insane, and so are you. stick out tongue

I was not insane..I was a peaceful man, they twisted my words.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by debbiejo
I was not insane..I was a peaceful man, they twisted my words.

eek!

debbiejo

And just for that. I decided to get a womans body. Let them try it this time.... mad

lord xyz

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
But God loves you and so do I in Jesus Name.

John 3:15-17
15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Ephesians 2:3-5
3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

1 John 4:8
He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

1 John 4:10
In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

1 John 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love,
and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.

This is the most outstanding difference between the God of the Bible (Jesus Christ) and the gods of Islam, Sikhism, Hinduism, and the like. The God of the Bible is love. Love is a Person--Jesus the Christ. And you actually believe that? Mate, religion is NOT fact. It's a bunch of shit people believe because they're too afraid to think for themselves. And you're the worst one.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by lord xyz
And you actually believe that? Mate, religion is NOT fact. It's a bunch of shit people believe because they're too afraid to think for themselves. And you're the worst one.

Not all religions are the same. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Impediment

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Not all religions are the same. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Shakyamunison

Some don't suck your brains out and punish you for thinking.

FeceMan

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Some don't suck your brains out and punish you for thinking.
Phew! For a second there, I thought Christianity might have been one of the ones that did.

fini

wait, you mean that some aren't???

Imperial_Samura

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
A politician is not God and God is not a politician. It does not matter what I think. Friend, I do not know why you have such a hard time with this. If it is in the Bible and within my scope of answering then I will. But remember, I take my orders from Jesus Christ not you so don't get upset with me if I choose not to answer certain questions.

So Jesus called you on the phone and said "Whatever you do JIA, don't answer those questions Imperial asked, even the ones to do with humans."

And I have a hard time of nothing, I just find inherent humor in the fact you refuse to answer questions.

You feel personally fine quoting to the point of nausea all the good stuff, going on about fools and Antichrists and paranoia and the rest but the moment anyone asks for something deeper you clam up. How you expect people to find security and belonging with a God whose followers act like CEO's who have been caught with their fingers in the till is beyond me. "I refuse to answer that on the grounds it might incriminate me. My lawyer (Jesus) says so." It is far more admirable to deal with the hard questions, but you refuse to even deal with the simple ones.

You wonder why so few are turning to God these days? Because so many of his followers are still stuck with the medieval mindset of "Believe what I say, everything else can be attributed to God works in mysterious ways.

Maybe I should but that in my signature...

JesusIsAlive

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
So Jesus called you on the phone and said "Whatever you do JIA, don't answer those questions Imperial asked, even the ones to do with humans."

And I have a hard time of nothing, I just find inherent humor in the fact you refuse to answer questions.

You feel personally fine quoting to the point of nausea all the good stuff, going on about fools and Antichrists and paranoia and the rest but the moment anyone asks for something deeper you clam up. How you expect people to find security and belonging with a God whose followers act like CEO's who have been caught with their fingers in the till is beyond me. "I refuse to answer that on the grounds it might incriminate me. My lawyer (Jesus) says so." It is far more admirable to deal with the hard questions, but you refuse to even deal with the simple ones.

You wonder why so few are turning to God these days? Because so many of his followers are still stuck with the medieval mindset of "Believe what I say, everything else can be attributed to God works in mysterious ways.

Maybe I should but that in my signature...

I have answered countless questions from many a forum member but there are times when I choose not to answer (for the reasons that I gave not the re-characterized reasons that you provided). Are you trying to put me on a guilt trip pal, friend, ace boon coon? It sure seems like it. I reserve the right to answer what I will to answer and what I will not to answer. It is that simple.

Imperial_Samura

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I have answered countless questions from many a forum member but there are times when I choose not to answer (for the reasons that I gave not the re-characterized reasons that you provided). Are you trying to put me on a guilt trip pal, friend, ace boon coon? It sure seems like it. I reserve the right to answer what I will to answer and what I will not to answer. It is that simple.

Your "answers" are usually only ever given when it gives you the chance to extol the virtue of your religion and your God. When any question comes up that might reflect otherwise on them you refuse to answer.

The way you can avoid this? Don't make statements you don't want questioned. Post, but remember people will ask questions where questions are justified.

I just find it funny, once again, that you can post more then six posts justifying you refusal to answer but can't take the time (I tried it, less then half minute) to answer a series of yes/no questions.

All you are doing really is reaffirming that I have a point. I have raised an issue that is less then religiously sound and you can find no way of answering and keeping the whole "sunshine and lollipops" attitude going with how you present your God. You believe it will either reflect badly on God or yourself, and thus you fall back on the odd "I am Biblically required not to answer questions of this nature." Theodicy is an issue.

JesusIsAlive

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Your "answers" are usually only ever given when it gives you the chance to extol the virtue of your religion and your God. When any question comes up that might reflect otherwise on them you refuse to answer.

The way you can avoid this? Don't make statements you don't want questioned. Post, but remember people will ask questions where questions are justified.

I just find it funny, once again, that you can post more then six posts justifying you refusal to answer but can't take the time (I tried it, less then half minute) to answer a series of yes/no questions.

All you are doing really is reaffirming that I have a point. I have raised an issue that is less then religiously sound and you can find no way of answering and keeping the whole "sunshine and lollipops" attitude going with how you present your God. You believe it will either reflect badly on God or yourself, and thus you fall back on the odd "I am Biblically required not to answer questions of this nature." Theodicy is an issue.

Don't you just hate it when that happens?

Imperial_Samura

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Don't you just hate it when that happens?

What? When you confirm my point and show you are either unwilling or incapable of dealing with the hard questions?

Usually I like it when that happens, though I prefer real debate.

Boris

Ahahahaha, Jesusisalive... are you having a laugh? Damn you made me spill my drink... hahahaha.

Nice act!

Morgoths_Wrath

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Question: have you ever asked God to reveal whether He is true or not? Tell you what, when you have time, and there are no distractions and no one in the house to interrupt you, ask God (in your own words and in your own way) to come into your heart and make Himself real to you. You do not have to use my script just tell Jesus to come into your life if He is true. I know you said that you don't believe etc. But just do your best to communicate to Jesus Christ that you want Him to come into your heart/life if He is true and real.

*shrug* maybe I could give it a shot. The only thing really holding me back is my better judgement...my reasoning. But where the hell has that ever got me, anyway?

Lord Urizen

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Don't you just hate it when that happens?

Can you please stop trolling ? I am going to have to report you...

Ushgarak already made it clear that if you continue to ignore debators and simply post bible quote after bible quote, that you will be banned from KMC...

xmarksthespot

This thread is silly. Why hate god? It's like saying I hate pixies, unicorns, ogres and sober Irishmen.

Imperial_Samura

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
This thread is silly. Why hate god? It's like saying I hate pixies, unicorns, ogres and sober Irishmen.

Sober Irishmen are a dangerous breed.

Lord Urizen

To Jesusisalive:

Is it right that can king can claim to be above the laws mad by man? YES/NO.

Is a king who claims not to be bound by the laws pure because he can never be charged with a crime? YES/NO

Were the Children of Egypt deserving of death? YES/NO

Did God commit murder by killing them? YES/NO

Do you realise that murder with perceived cause is still classified as murder, though the cause acts as a mitigating factor? YES/NO

Has God done things that if done by a human would classify as a sin? YES/NO

In conclusion - if God didn't have the "I'm above the law" clause would he still be sinless? YES/NO

JacopeX

Originally posted by lord xyz
And you actually believe that? Mate, religion is NOT fact. It's a bunch of shit people believe because they're too afraid to think for themselves. And you're the worst one. Explain why they are afraid to think for themselves?

No one answered this because they are more aimed for bashing than reasoning!

lord xyz

Originally posted by JacopeX
Explain why they are afraid to think for themselves?

No one answered this because they are more aimed for bashing than reasoning! The fact that they rely on an ancient text to decide their life?

lord xyz

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Some don't suck your brains out and punish you for thinking. Sorry Shakya, I keep forgetting Buddhism is a religion.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Phew! For a second there, I thought Christianity might have been one of the ones that did. It is one of those. no expression

JacopeX

Originally posted by lord xyz
The fact that they rely on an ancient text to decide their life? Actually, I think for myself in my different way and at the same I follow my religion. Plus, in my religion, it common sense to do THE RIGHT THING. I still cant see why Asses think that a religion that teaches to do the right thing, would cause chaos and Why they act like idiots and go on with the past. Catholics don't even kill now and I know we will not. I don't know why such an event would happen but I think of these people as imperfect to there religion, so why do you count them besides the catholics that follow it and not contradict it or be hypocrites!

lord xyz

Originally posted by JacopeX
Actually, I think for myself in my different way and at the same I follow my religion. Plus, in my religion, it common sense to do THE RIGHT THING. And what is "The right thing"?
Originally posted by JacopeX
I still cant see why Asses think that a religion that teaches to do the right thing, would cause chaos and Why they act like idiots and go on with the past. "Asses", "Idiots"? Sounds like bashing to me. They asren't teaching "The right thing" they're forcing their beliefs and way of thinking on young people. That is not right.
Originally posted by JacopeX
Catholics don't even kill now and I know we will not. Can't be too sure on that.
Originally posted by JacopeX
I don't know why such an event would happen but I think of these people as imperfect to there religion, Whose religion? What religion?
Originally posted by JacopeX
so why do you count them besides the catholics that follow it and not contradict it or be hypocrites! ???