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Posted by Terry on Monday, 30 October 2006, at 7:10 p.m., in response to For Terry and every other writer!, posted by Idrissa on Friday, 27 October 2006, at 9:05 p.m.

And I also promise to stop beating my wife.

>> NO more WOMEN:

>> - Hopping on people
>> - Screetching
>> - Crying
>> - Tripping and Falling, etc.

>> Just stop it already!

For the record, I've never written a woman who hopped on someone, or who screeched, or who tripped and fell.

Guilty on the charge of writing a character who cried. (I think when you decide to send someone you may indeed love to their death, a single tear might be in order, given that it reveals a part of yourself you might not be able to live with.)



Thank you Terry

http://www.wordplayer.com/forums/movies/index.cgi?read=90792

ELIZABETH
No. This is barbaric. This is not how grown men settle their -- oh, fine! Let's just all haul out our swords and start banging away at each other! Have at it! That will solve everything. Well I've had it with the lot of you! I've had enough of ... rum soaked ... wobbly-legged ... pirates!

*****

You might note that Will tries to give Elizabeth an order -- which she refuses, and then takes the men to task. And she does it pretty well. There is a double-entendre and even a subtle Jack Sparrow reference.

----------------------------------------------------------
This also shows that Jack has been on her mind a LOT latley no?..why has she had enough of Jack..was he intruding on her mind THAT much? Jack is the man she mentions here..why not Norrie or Will all fighting like bad boys..Jack is the one it all turns back to all the time with her.
OMFG lmao and the double entendre?

A word or phrase having a double meaning, especially when the second meaning is risqué.

!Haul out our swords and start banging away at eachother, have at it! that will solve everything!!

Liz is so horny oh my gosh..and Its Jack Sparrow she mentions there...

I know I'm not Surreal, but I have to disagree with half of this. The part I do agree with: Yes, she is referring to Jack when she says she's tired of pirates. She's disillusioned by now, and she probably has a headache from thinking about him vs. Will so much. Love him or not, he's adding a lot of stress to her life. So I see that easily, and I think she half expected him to stop first when she "fainted" since he was the one who saved her the last time she really did faint.

But the phrase "banging away at each other" I don't think is a double meaning. For one, that phrase wasn't used back then to refer to sex. Banging away meant taking an object and hitting it on another. You might say they had to include modern language for modern audiences, but I don't see a lot of that. I see realistic late 17th century language, even from Jack.
Two, Liz really seems frustrated, and not sexually frustrated here. I think she knows as well as anyone else that a swordfight between Norrington, Will, and Jack won't solve anything and could go on for hours, so what is she to do? These are all people she cares for, at least doesn't want to see get killed. I think for once sex isn't on the girl's mind.

This scene to me showed that Liz is still trying to decide just how much of a pirate she wants to be. I think she's like Jack where she wants the freedom and adventure, but killing people and the like don't appeal to her.

PS: Will may have ordered her to guard the chest, but in stressful situations, a lot of people have to give orders, and I've seen Liz order around some people. Plus, guarding the chest was really important and had she done that and used her sword skills to drive away anyone after it, they may not all be in the mess they are now.

Willofthewisp. Terry the writer said that its a double meaning.(thats not my opinion under the ****** thats Terry's own words, mine are under the line ----) So I think I'll believe what he says because he wrote the line in the first place. His conscious thought went behind it meaning it has a double meaning. AlsoI think she mentions Jack there because she has been feeling rather...sexually frustrated during the movie and Jack has been the one with her making her feel most frustrated and angry.

while we're at it, look at Jack totally confessing to want Elizabeth:

The three men square off against each other. They leap forward at exactly the same time, swords clashing. Their three swords lock together --

JACK
Will, we can't let him get the chest. You can trust me on this ...
(off Will's look)
You can mistrust me less than you can mistrust him.

Will really takes a look at Norrington for the first time.

WILL
You look awful.

NORRINGTON
Granted. But you're still naive. He just wants Elizabeth for himself.

JACK
Pot. Kettle. Black.

They leap back and the fight is on. Will is pushed aside for a moment, long enough to say to Elizabeth:

WILL
Guard the chest.

He moves back to the fight. Elizabeth glares at him...




I AM SO GLAD Terry chose to clear this up for us. I hated it when people were like, Will wasnt ordering her around, or blah blah blah.

Oh my gracious i cant believe he said that bit about the love!!!!!!!!!!! He is just TRYING to make me old before my time here. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
. okay okay i'm calm, im cool, im collected...

I agree he was so obviously bossing her around..its the first thing that comes to mind and its the right thing..he was bosssing her about we all knew it but the W/E blind spot appeared again.

he also said this kate:

... to create a scenario where inevitably half of the relationship fans out there are sure to be unhappy.

Well, they're shooting the ending right now over in Hangar nine, so I guess it's set in stone!

LMFAO

I would say its a bout 70/30 possibly 80/20 when it comes to Je vs WE..its not 50/50 Terry lol

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH our fate is being decided even as we speak!!!!!!!!!

i got to go take an exam.... but honestly, how could i be expected to handle that on a day like this?!?!*******

this is SOOOO intense. that terry quote really through my for a loop. though of course, that wasnt the big loop i was thrown for this morning!!!!! i am still flipping out. and eating fruit loops! giggle...

LOL I know....its amazing isnt it..

sorry he actually said this:

how clever of us...... to create a scenario where inevitably half of the relationship fans out there are sure to be unhappy.

Well, they're shooting the ending right now over in Hangar nine, so I guess it's set in stone!

WOW,
I am just now getting on here and seeing all this, I CANT BELIEVE IT!! This is awsome !!

I KNOW!! all the crap she was telling us about us being wrong when it came to what Liz felt in the last scene...

What Terry said seems tp match in with all of the most sensible arguments. She may indeed love him so WHY did she kill him? Because she saw him as a threat, because she's in love with him IMO

I am so excited now, This makes my day!!!


Oh by the way Happy halloween Girls
vampire

This settles nothing, unhappily for you. Terry simply says she sent someone that she may love. *shrug* So maybe she's still on the fence how she feels. He did not say flat-out that Elizabeth loves Jack.


She certainly cares for him, and she is obviously horrified at what she's done. Feeling guilty. And he said it has revealed a part of herself that she may not be able to live with.


Aside from stating that Elizabeth still feels torn, possibly, about how she feels about Jack, your 'proof' is non-existant.


Also, I'm not sure what W/E shippers you are talking about who didn't think Will ordered Liz to guard the chest....that's really never been debatable. I've never seen anyone deny that.


What J/E shippers have said is that it means Will thinks Elizabeth is weak, and then W/E shippers have argued that no, Will does NOT use this to treat Liz horribly, or to treat her that she is too weak to do anything.


So again, your argument is not right. Sorry. But nice try.


**Edit** Just wanted to add that it's not only a love triangle, but more like a square...or a pyramid, I suppose. And one other thing: I don't think Terry or Ted is going to give up who Elizabeth loves more any time soon, so don't get too excited or disappointed by anything they say regarding either ship.

This is such a wonderful Halloween treat! I mean this is so much better then candy. I'm so HAPPY!! I love this I knew it all along that J/E were always meant to be together!!! Happy Halloween to you too
shannstar79. Wishing everyone here a very Happy and safe Halloween have fun!

LMFAO..ok what ever..I dont have time for you anymore he's directly contradicted you surreal and now you dont trust all that he says.

yes that she may not be able to live with..she cant live with herself because she has just murdered the man she loves and this is why she choses to go back for him because she cant live without him there

to break it down.

She's crying because she thinks she loves Jack..she cant live with the fact he's not around her despite Will her "night in shining speedos being there"

she's now betrayed someone she loves..she has betrayed people to their deaths before surreal to save Will and she never cried or cared like this..its revealed something that she cant live with..or live without?

giggle i know, nothing can ruin this day! its too wonderful.

Happy Halloween! And if you don't celebrate Halloween, happy beautiful fall day in which we have been given shreds of hope!!!

Thank goodness Terry has a sense of humor. LOL. i love it. His responses to everything are always so eloquent and ambiguous. But its clear he was trying to shut some people up. I think part of what he may have meant with that line was "yeah tears shed only over a guitly conscience are one thing, but to cry over someone you killed that you may love is entirely acceptable and neccessary." or something.

and the "killing someone she may love"... i think its sort of reflective of where Elizabeth is at--- she MAY love Sparrow, she doesnt know, she's confused about who she loves, so that has entered her realm of conscience and scarred her, but its a very real possibility she is facing

i am rambling.

all this so say, HOORAY!!!!

To me..she's THINKING she does in that scene..because he's saying she's crying because she's thinking she does..so it must be the emotion she's feeliong to make her cry like that..

she's "thinking" she may indeed love sparrow

My main point here is she's not crying because she has no emotion for Jack and because she only wants redemption..she's crying because .she's thinking she may indeed be in love with with him and this is obviously why she agrees to go back.

and surreal44. I'm sorry about my "dont have time for you" replay..That was bad of me

OMG This is the second best thing that has happened to me this morning. I am currently in my Univ. And a guy came in wearing a costume of Jack and a girl came is as Liz. I though I was the only one obsess with the movie LOL. Her costume is soo cool, it cost $ 150.00 plus s/h at ebay. Anyways guys, Hope you have a happy Halloween. I still can't believe Terry's words. This is great for us J/L shippies. C ya guys later.

Okay, so I stand corrected on the double entendre. I guess when it all comes down to it, it's the audience interpretation rather than the writer's intention, but I'm pleased Jack is forever on Lizzie's mind.

I wasn't saying Will didn't order Liz to guard the chest. That's undisputed because it's in the script. All I am saying is that I would have made sure somebody guarded it, too. It wouldn't matter who, just someone, and if everyone else is.....indisposed.....I would yell at the nearest person. That's not saying Will's not bossy, he very much likes getting his way, but the chest is so important and Liz really screwed up by not protecting it.

itas funny cuz she kinda suggets as if she's attracted to them all in some way and the one she is most sexually attracted to is the one who she says she's had enough of the most..she's probably feeling more sexually alive just being around Jack than anyone else..

Well, Will certainly screwed up as well by joining in the swordfight instead of protecting the chest himself. If they had the chest, the key would have been worthless anyways. Or at least, they could have forced the boys to sit down and negotiate with them. Giving Sparrow the chance to share what he knows about why stabbing the heart wouldn't be the best idea, since it wasn't the oppurtune moment.

It seemed to me that in that "Guard the chest" scene Will had every intention to use Liz in order to protect the chest for his owns selfish needs.

^^ I think so too. He was thinking about his dad. Liz refused to be bossed like that. IMO.

Yep exactly He though Liz was going to listen to him.

I think that line when she said rum soaked yada yada she must've been thinking about Jack. Norrie is not exactly a pirate, Will doesnt drink Rum, the only rum soaked pirate there was Jack.

Oh balls she's gone..wanted to PM her a question...kate get back here girl!

I liked that scene a lot, because it showed us that Liz wasn't just a 19th or 18th century woman. Like Keira said in an interview, she is a 21st century woman trapped in that era. Like most of us woman of the 21st century are independent, hard workers that are willing to do anything in order to meet their goals. That is the way that I view this character, well sometimes she can be a pea brain. But why blame her. She reminds me to like Joan of arc.

hey lovely you aske me about something in fiddlers green thread.

oh its not about the script lol

then what is it

"slake her lust and drown her guilt"... WOAH...

yeah slightly off topic. apparantly t and t say that about the kiss of death in the commentary. interesting...

???? I feel like diddly now lol

LOL the 2 things I've been saying over and over..she's lusting after him and she's been feeling guilty/afraid of her deeper feelings for him..

U put them both together and you get that moment. She's forward with the lust..and she's scared of those feelings for him

where did you hear about that kate?

i know it! see LovelyOne, it all fits together. lol. YAYAY! its so brilliant. i LOVE the way they put that.

just in case you havent seen the rest...
lol...

* When Bootstrap first appears ("time's up" Jack is holding a broken bottle with sand pouring out of it. This was meant to symbolize an hourglass and the sands of time running out. I wonder why this never occurred to me.
* The Black Pearl lying on the beach wasn't actually there.
* Will's "Never mind, let's go" line from the trailer was actually a blooper. They wanted to use it in the movie, but the shot wasn't long enough.
* The other actors' reaction to the "I've got a jar of dirt" chant is natural. They had no idea what Johnny was going to do.
* Ted and Terry don't always agree about what the compass is pointing towards.
* The reason the compass doesn't work for jack is that "he wants Elizabeth, but he doesn't want to want Elizabeth".
* They describe the kiss of death as allowing Elizabeth to simultaneously "slake her lust and drown her guilt".
* When Norrington is about to appear for the first time Ted tells Terry to "Shut up, it's Jack Davenport!" Smile

liz is a horny girl..plain and simple

* Ted and Terry don't always agree about what the compass is pointing towards

I can imagine them doing that to KEEP us in the dark still if you know what I mean. clever little ploy to keep the mystery before AWE opens..if they said what it was pointing to AWE would be obvious.

Terry clearly said "it points to Jack one minute and the chest the next" when he was angry on wordplayer at that dude and Ted said it did this as well with his waffle analogy

"slake her lust and drown her guilt"

in other words refusal of the call..fear of the unknown..Jack wanting to be with her..feelings just sky rocketed..she goes into denial, fear/guilt and is also lust filled so ya see a crazy mix of the twooooo

they say its simultaneous meaning its two things going on at once not lust followed by guilt to remove him...or guilt followed by lust..its both things at once, two different things

Well either they argued about what was the compass pointing to or they argued on not to tell ppl what the compass was pointing to.

It pointed to the chest at first to rescue Will, if she wanted Will the most it couldve pointed to where Will was.

johnny is gone to europe it is only orlando and keira filming now in palmdale

Must be a Will/Liz immortal crappy ending then^^ cuz terry said the last scene in the movie is being filmed right now

Also why slake her lust with Jack if Will was right there with her?? Jack is so much better cuz he's the waffle...wants to munch him up

"When Norrington is about to appear for the first time Ted tells Terry to "Shut up, it's Jack Davenport!" Smile"----Kate

Lol! I think that was my favorite.

Okay, maybe I'm really an 18th century girl, but I probably would have guarded the chest. Liz knows what's going to happen to Jack and the other pirates if Beckett gets ahold of this chest, and it's much safer with her and her crew than with anyone else. I think it's a little immature to not do something just because someone told you to do it. Now if Will had said, "Go back to the Pearl," I would have said no because that serves no purpose.

You can still be a 21st century girl fighting off bad guys after the chest that supposedly can control the entire ocean.

I think her protest was more in response to the way in which he said it, not the command itself. In all wisdom, guarding the chest was the smart thing to do. But Elizabeth isn't the type of woman who would submit to being commanded to be obiedent like a dog.

Guys I think its W/E...

apparently the last scene is being shot now and Johnny has finished shooting its now only Keira and Orlando left shooting.....


I cant believe it

*sobs*

I'm sorry, I'm going to have to be really nit-picky about this. I thought not guarding the chest was one of her biggest mistakes that ended up hurting everybody, and in a situation as stressful as Davy Jones' goons ambushing you, Will isn't going to say, "Elizabeth, darling, could you pretty please guard the chest whilst I sword fight away? These are different acts, but both equally important." No! Everyone's yelling at each other. That's just how those situations are. There's no time to be polite. No one got on Anamaria when she was bitchy with Liz.

Liz: This is the fastest ship in the Caribbean!
Anamaria: You can tell them that when they've caught us.

I'm out this sucks..crappy francise

"Guys I think its W/E...

apparently the last scene is being shot now and Johnny has finished shooting its now only Keira and Orlando left shooting....."----Lovely

I have one question and it might lead to some hope: are you absolutely certain they're shooting every scene in chronological order? Films are shot out of order all the time and I'm almost positive both COTBP and DMC were shot out of order. If that's true, it probably doesn't mean anything.

Terry said the last scene is being filmed. I think Johnny's finished filming for good now

I dunno about you guys..but I'm slightly pissed off

I can imagine all the W/E shippers rubbing it in our faces.

I actually feel as if I've been sold out.

Lovely, calm down! Remember what I told you about rumors. It might be Will's funeral, who the hell knows? It might be the final goodbye and Liz will run back onto the Pearl. Nothing can be known for certain until the movie comes out. Please, enjoy AWE no matter what happens. We get to see Johnny and I'll bet you anything Jack and Liz will have some scenes together. Plus there is always fanfiction for a nice escape into the what-could-have-been if they do go W/E.

I dunno...the way Terry said it...its weird though because he implied that its an ending that wont upset either shipping side

hmm, maybe it's the uber-feminist ending where Liz dumps both of them and captains her own ship........or dies.......

Wouldn't it be weird if the three of them just all went their separate ways, like each has their own ship, but there is a strong hint they'll be reunited sometime?

heres what he said

How clever of us ... to create a scenario where inevitably half of the relationship fans out there are sure to be unhappy.

Well, they're shooting the ending right now over in Hangar nine, so I guess it's set in stone!


Is that set in stone thing a sarcastic comment?
another thing they keep deleteing the spoilers that say Liz dies..

Right we all need to calm down and just breathe! I'm not worried at all I still really believe that we get J/E in the end. Lets not worry over rumors lets get wait for the movie to come out then we'll really know what happens.

I really dont think T&T realise just how passionate J/E supporters are..and just how many of us there actually are...I mean...do you SEE W/E based fan boards and forums??

he's just seen a shit load of J/E supporters post on there..I wonder what he will make of them showing their dislike towards that kind of ending.

Well, I think a frame of reference might be helpful in this instance. What was this quote in response to?

I don't pretend to know I know the writers or how they operate. I think they're purposely being open-ended to circulate debate of exactly this kind.

"How clever of us."
I think this is sarcasm. Like J/E or not, they dug themselves in a hole with it and had to find what to do about it.

"to create a scenario where inevitably half of the relationship fans out there are sure to be unhappy."
Once again, vague, unclear message not meant to reveal a thing but cause gossip.

"Well, they're shooting the ending right now over in Hanger Nine, so I guess it's set in stone!"
1. This is a joke.
2. They have their ending in mind and are not going to change it to make the other 50% of their fans happy and suddenly making the other 50% unhappy.
3. He wants to just stop talking about it because the filming is done and he probably wants to relax.

So I wouldn't worry too much. T&T, although brilliant writers, seem like a couple of airheads sometimes to me just because they don't corroborate their own comments and they are just eating up the fact that everyone is divided on what the couple should be.

I'm sure they know Lovelyone I really believe that they read broads and look on the internet and read what people are saying about the movie. They have to know who popular J/E have become and how much people love and want them together.

but there is the fact that Orlando and Keira are the 2 filming and Johnny is not there..and its "the ending being shot" but he could be joking...I'm still pissed off despite getting the salmon script posted to me..I may be better off once I've read the entire thing to see how they wormed their way out of the big fat hole they dug themselves into.."Jack suddenly wants his pearl back." after developing away from it or something..

its not even half the relationship lovers that love J/E its more than half...its not 50/50 there are more J/e supporters than W/E..by far

I mentioned this earlier, and I wanted to say it again: Ted and Terry are never going to let us know before the movie comes out who ended up with who.


I would take anything and everything they say with a grain of salt, and not worry too much over it.

Surreal, this is why I like you. You had every opportunity to gloat at this moment, and yet you chose not to. Your behavior is commendable and truly noble.

He could be joking. I do remember reading an article that said all the major actors would be done filming in november. So maybe he was just joking about that. Still I don't think that we need to worried about this really.

who says that its the ending? how can we be sure? so rry i have been online forever and forgot about it. besides i got attacked by trick or treaters lol

back to subject.

T&T are brilliant writers. They sure as hell figured out that what bombed the charts was the kiss. If it was what the adience DID NOT want, it wouldve been a complete dissapointment.

It's too soon to be reacting, throwing in the towel or vowing never to see AWE so long as you live. The fact of the matter is we will know nothing until May.

All of it will be confirmed in May. I have been saying this over and over....lets not rely much on the interent. What do we have brians for? We are not perfect we do make mistakes in our theories, but theres always hope and a way to fix it. We must rely on eachother not on rumors.

I agree. No one should be throwing in the towel. Please read POTCs 3 through 7 here on the board if you want a J/E fix. We all know that's how it should be.

Well, not all of us, Willo.

I'm worried about all this news today. I'm not going to let it get me down. Terry did say that Liz shed a tear because she killed the man she might love. Even if Johnny is in Europe doesn't mean that Keira and Orlando are filming at the moment. There has been no confirmation of that. They still have this big battle scene to shoot at the end of November....certainly Jack would be in that scene. Let's be optimisitic.....

What are they worrying about?

I'd rather not read all the posts... again...

Originally posted by evilm0nki3
What are they worrying about?

I'd rather not read all the posts... again...

They think that W/E are going to end up together. Because Terry said at wordplayer that the last scene was being filmed today and apparently the only ones filming were Orli and Keira. Johnny has left to Europe so he is not filming. But come on you guys this could be a scene from the beginning, weren't they filming the other day at the Niagara Falls? And that scene is supposed to be in the beginning of the movie, where they go to the end of the world to rescue Jack? So come on people Terry is not going to give away such an obvious hint like that. I think he was doing what he does best, mess with out little minds.

theres no last scene being filmed. They are still filming and the ending is supposedly by the end of november and at the beginning of december. by that time i believe they will be done.

So there wasn't any last scene filmed the 30th like he said? Or were they filming something? I really doubt that the last and final scene was filmed when he said. He was just messing around with us.

misty are you online in msn or something? just for like 5 mins

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
misty are you online in msn or something? just for like 5 mins

im signing in

given that it reveals a part of yourself you might not be able to live with.)

I have a strange feeling about this comment made by Terry, ok here is why. Sending Jack to his death while loving him revealed a part of herself she might not be able to live with. Does that suggest that Liz might no be able to live with the real her. That she is truly a pirate at heart. Does Liz wants to be this way or she doesn't, is she to terrified of being what she really is. I don't know guys, but this doesn't sound good. Maybe they will give us a surprise at the end. Maybe is Liz thats going to stab the heart.given that it reveals a part of yourself you might not be able to live with.)

Originally posted by LovelyOne
but there is the fact that Orlando and Keira are the 2 filming and Johnny is not there..and its "the ending being shot" but he could be joking...I'm still pissed off despite getting the salmon script posted to me..I may be better off once I've read the entire thing to see how they wormed their way out of the big fat hole they dug themselves into.."Jack suddenly wants his pearl back." after developing away from it or something.. oh is this your informant?...hey...hey, what if 3 ends with kiera leaving will, eh eh....im trying, i expect you to do the same when the norrie dies rumors pop up

Originally posted by sailorleo
oh is this your informant?...hey...hey, what if 3 ends with kiera leaving will, eh eh....im trying, i expect you to do the same when the norrie dies rumors pop up

This is what Terry said at worldplayer, he said that the last scene was filmed the 30th and apparently the only ones filming were Orli and Keira. Johnny has left to Europe so he is not filming.

Originally posted by Mistypirate
given that it reveals a part of yourself you might not be able to live with.)

I have a strange feeling about this comment made by Terry, ok here is why. Sending Jack to his death while loving him revealed a part of herself she might not be able to live with. Does that suggest that Liz might no be able to live with the real her. That she is truly a pirate at heart. Does Liz wants to be this way or she doesn't, is she to terrified of being what she really is. I don't know guys, but this doesn't sound good. Maybe they will give us a surprise at the end. Maybe is Liz thats going to stab the heart.given that it reveals a part of yourself you might not be able to live with.)


Spoilers!


But in the leaked script, she accepts that she is in fact a pirate and seems content with that role. In fact, she's willing to die with her men after she begins to take command of the Empress. So gradually she does accept that part of her that she feels to be unacceptable.

Originally posted by Mistypirate
This is what Terry said at worldplayer, he said that the last scene was filmed the 30th and apparently the only ones filming were Orli and Keira. Johnny has left to Europe so he is not filming.


Does the final scene necessarily have to involve Johnny for it to be J/E?

It's possible that W/E decide to part. This could mean anything! I know it's good to expect the worse and hope that things balance themselves out, but I'm shocked that the hope died so quickly on this board.

Originally posted by savvysparrow
Spoilers!


But in the leaked script, she accepts that she is in fact a pirate and seems content with that role. In fact, she's willing to die with her men after she begins to take command of the Empress. So gradually she does accept that part of her that she feels to be unacceptable.

ok that sounds a lot better. Thank you. I just hope she wont back up and do anythin stupid

Like take Davy Jones' place? That would be a huge twist.

Ha ha, I wonder if sailorleo would like it if Liz married Norrington and became a British version of Mulan, disguising as a guy and fighting in sea battles. No one would ever expect it!

guys as far as the filming schedule goes, i really want to encourage everyone not to panic, haha... because like you said, they film things way out of order, and not only that, but Terry might well have been exaggerating for dramatic effect--- as in "they are filming the final scene in hanger nine now, so its set in stone"... probably means, "we arent changing our ending for you people, so just get used to it," or "we are filming the final scene in a few months, and we don't plan on changing it before then." i doubt he meant that minute they were filming it, ya know?

and no matter who they made the hero of this film, they would not be so foolish as to leave Jack out of the final moments of the film... right? am i just being way optimistic?

I totally advocate the idea of liz marrying norrie and becoming a british mulan. thats brilliant.

funny how Terry said the ending was "set in stone" tomb stone? Will/Liz?

since Johnny is not filming and its only those 2?

I know people probably wont think this will happen. But by looking at the ending of DMC and how its supposed to have closure for each character.

I see it was Liz doing something stupid to save Will and "hurt Jack" in the process

then she returns to Jack after some time in the reflection room, coming to terms with her feelings and

Its exactly what happened in DMC

on the commentary she "simultaneously slaked her lust and drowned her guilt" meaning two separate things happened there..she gave into lust and also gave into her feelings for him which by this point she handled rather badly.

you tie the two together and then you get what we saw her do on the pearl.

So this is like the movie is going to end? That is the huge finale. They are both dying and turning to fish. I wonder how that scene is going to be like? Both tombs shown at the end of the movie. Wow what an exciting finale.

see tragedy brings in the $ when its a POPULAR relationship like in Titanic..but W/E isn't popular at all, it never was never will be...DMC J/E was the popular relationship its what pushed it to 1 billion..T&T have made a big mistake IMO..They really did intend for this to be a W/E thing but they have now realised just how popular J/E is.

Movies do NOT get to 1 billion unless something is really..REALLY working well and clicking with the audience and I'm betting on it being the J/E relationship its obvious. Its the only real significantly different thing when compared with CotBP Jack = money of the movie remember that..and this J/E thing was the only different thing. 1 Billion

..I doubt they can change the ending because much of the story has already been shot during the same time DMC was being shot.

WHAT
thats awfull

Its weird though how they used to call Liz's action "punishing Jack for betraying Will"..and on the commentary its: "simultaneously, slaking her lust and drowning her guilt"

WTF contrast much?

Lovely I just read Terry's answer to your post, I think he is just meesing with everyone.
LOL Trust no one not, even the writters. I learned that from watching the X Files.

Lovelyone can you give me the link to the post that you wrote on Worldplay I would like to read it. Thanks

Originally posted by LovelyOne
Its weird though how they used to call Liz's action "punishing Jack for betraying Will"..and on the commentary its: "simultaneously, slaking her lust and drowning her guilt"

WTF contrast much?

seriously!!


If they both die at the end that will be awfull, I dont see how there would be a 4th movie unless its a prequel?

here is the link.

http://www.wordplayer.com/forums/movies/index.cgi?read=90699

This is the thread. Look where it says come know, folks.....

yeah but he also said earlier "the ending is set in stone and is being filmed in hangar 9 as I speak"

thats what mean when he's contradicting himself cuz he then says to me "the order of the scenes dont mean anythign when other actors are away" or something..but if thats the end scene and its "set in stone" and Johnny is not on set at all..Its W/E

that ERK comment was mine lol

Its really funny how the site and that page has become swamped with J/E supporters..are they coming from here or elsewhere?

.....Its making me laugh

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Like take Davy Jones' place? That would be a huge twist.

Ha ha, I wonder if sailorleo would like it if Liz married Norrington and became a British version of Mulan, disguising as a guy and fighting in sea battles. No one would ever expect it! that would be cool!

Originally posted by LovelyOne
Its really funny how the site and that page has become swamped with J/E supporters..are they coming from here or elsewhere?

.....Its making me laugh

I don't think they are all coming from this board.

Honestly, I think people are still overreacting, which is what Terry is no doubt, nobly trying to point out on Wordplayer.

Jumping to conclusions is a dangerous habit, especially when not all of the facts are known. Sometimes, we may think we have all of the picture when in fact we don't....sound like a certain blacksmith that we all know?

He's right, movies are shot out of sequence. He's not contradicting himself, he's telling the truth.

Just because Keira and Orlando are on the set doesn't mean that the ending is W/E. Did anyone think that it might simply mean that they are parting in the same way that they united in CotBP? Or that they're shooting part of the ending, and that is not the whole ending? For that matter, how do we know that the ending is not already shot, and that this is a clever ruse? The truth is we don't know, whether we have connections to the set or not.

Does anyone else remember that the writers have said that what they didn't like about Star Wars is that the first movie and the last movie ended in the same way?

For that matter, if they were having the ending of AWE set-up for W/E, what about Jack? His feelings are still unresovled. Wouldn't it have been more clever of them to have the ending of DMC be the ending of AWE, in which Jack goes to his death for Elizabeth and thus resolves his feelings and the triangle?

They wouldn't kill off Jack in DMC, in the manner in which they killed him off, if they didn't have a larger plan.

As I've said, jumping to conclusions is a dangerous path. Until the movies come out to confirm an entirely W/E ending, you'll have to persuade me.

Yes but he also said that the ending of the movie is being shot (before he replied to me with something different) right now and Johnny is not there so IMO its W/E

I dont really mind anymore though..J/E should have been together but I dont think it is gonna be

When I look at COTBP and DMC I see two endings in each so, why would they change their method and style of writing for AWE.

Maybe it is an ending for W/E but not the actual ending of AWE. They have to tie up alot of threads in order to finish AWE satisfactorily for everyone. Clever devils.

But you don't know that for sure---that's your hunch. Whose to say if that is, in fact correct? Like I said, the ending could imply something completely different than what you're thinking.

It's your opinion but tons of people are taking that as fact. It's the blind leading the blind. No offense, but that's what happens when the whole story isn't had.

Also, his quote was meant to be very tongue and cheek. I'm surprised that you're taking it so literally Lovelyone, you should know better! You're focusing on that one quote and not looking at what he said before that.

How clever of us to have created an ending in which inevitably one side of the fandom is disappointed.

Do you not hear the joke? Of the fact that he's rubbing in the fact that they have a really good ending that no one has thus far been able to guess?

Let me just add something, Savysparrow I totally agree with you. All of us are like that, we jump in to conclusions without having the real details. That is a bad habit that all of us human beings have. I mean its always inevitable to try not to think of the worst. I have been situations were I start to think the worst of it. But at the end it doesn't turned out to be as bad as I though it would be. I'm trying to stay positive, but is inevitable to not think of the worst.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
Yes but he also said that the ending of the movie is being shot (before he replied to me with something different) right now and Johnny is not there so IMO its W/E

I dont really mind anymore though..J/E should have been together but I dont think it is gonna be aw come on, keep the faith! im still hoping on a Jack/Will ending.....

its my opinion and I'm entitled to it..but what I'm basing it on is a little more than internet info

and I really DO think they set out to make W/E and they are mocking their own mistake because now J/e is a phenomena: 1 billion..again CotBP had special effects..it had various other things goin on but it didnt get to 1 billion.

the only thing that could have possible made movie 2 get 1 billion is J/E IMO..they realised this IMO

I think it's sad that J/E's greatest defender has now become it's greatest critic but you're entittled to feel how you feel. Nothing that I can say or do will make you change your mind. Though, I will say that you've claimed to know a little of what was going on for a while, and still you shipped J/E with more conviction than a lot of us--so that tells me that you didn't believe the whole story or didn't know it up until yesterday.

Whew, I think I need a break for a while. Things are too heavy on the board and it is a gorgeous day outside.

Keep your spirits up friends. I'll bet you money that we'll get thrown a bone.

I'm not its critic. I still believe in it I still think its the relationship that should be..It needs to be there if AWE is to even get close to 1 billion.

but I'm just fed up with putting all my faith into something and then having my heart ripped out when I find out new things that dont point towards it.

Iv'e been feeling like it for a while but now that Terry said that its what took the donut.

And still you shipped J/E. Why? If you've known all along, or have this mysterious info, why did you ship them with such passion?

because I thought the ending might still be changed and not "set in stone" as he said.


Its being shot right now. The last scene being shot he said. Jack is not there its only Elizabeth and Will..IMO its going to be their ending.

Just for a shred of hope here
what if
they are shooting the W/E ending
but they have already shot the ending of the movie, It may be somthing totaly different that what we are all thinking

If Will Dies maybe the final scene is Her telling him goodbye

I do not think it will be a W/E ending, Jack has to be in the final scene, it may be that the final sceen with Jack and iz has already been shot and will be editied in for the ending??

It's a movie! Seriously, is anyone not going to see it if they "know" it's going to end a certain way? Like someone pointed out before, the writers are also responsible for Shrek, and Shrek was full of surprises and unconventionalism. So far, POTC has been the same way. These are nonconformist writers that dug themselves into a hole by establishing a couple (W/E) and then all of a sudden playing with the idea of changing it to J/E through subtle changes in symbolism and character development. The same thing could happen again! They are unpredictable and they love to taunt and entice. Get over all this "information." Remember when we all thought Liz would die? Remember when we all thought Will would die? Who's to say this is how it's going to be? Nothing can be known for certain yet. Just appreciate the fact we have another Jack movie coming.

I'm not getting this from mere info on the internet.

There are other reasons why I'm feeling in doubt...ones that are far more convincing than internet rumors and random info.

Just to get that across. I'm not one of these people to believe rumors on the internet..I'm not basing all I say on that and that alone.

Here, here!

Not to mention, even if the couple ship doesn't turn out the way people expected, isn't there still going to be a great movie to see? Absolutely!

I'm actually more excited to see AWE now, even with the potential of the W/E ending.

There are so many other great stories to resolve, and, as willofthewhisp said: it's got Jack in it. How can you not love a movie like that?

I agree
I am a total J/E shipper
bu I cant wait for the movie, just to see more Captain Jack! Lets all just chill for a while, seems like evryday we have a new piece of news and we all get bent out of shape and start to change our minds. lets just have fun with this and not be so serious

LovleyOne> do not loose Hope, every theroy and point you have made on these boards have made perfect sence. T&T are not going to tell us, or mush less anyone anything about the ending of the movie, or anything about the movie, lets have some rum and chill girls

Originally posted by shannstar79
I agree
I am a total J/E shipper
bu I cant wait for the movie, just to see more Captain Jack! Lets all just chill for a while, seems like evryday we have a new piece of news and we all get bent out of shape and start to change our minds. lets just have fun with this and not be so serious

LovleyOne> do not loose Hope, every theroy and point you have made on these boards have made perfect sence. T&T are not going to tell us, or mush less anyone anything about the ending of the movie, or anything about the movie, lets have some rum and chill girls rum party!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *grabs the rum*

drunk

BRING IT ON

Right we all need to just calm down and breathe. And Chill out and take a deep breath! Everything is going to work out!

and guys, think about it. there are 3 very viable endings...

1. liz and will end up together.

2. liz and jack end up together

3. liz ends up alone.

and 2 of the 3 of those endings work with what we want--- cause if liz ends up "alone" we can always assume what happens in a year or whatever, right?

and even if will and liz end up together, WE will know that Liz and Jack carry on secret affairs.

Or Elizabeth could end up with Norrington. *smiles brightly* What? It MIGHT happen!

LOL^^^ woot!

aww norrie..I love his character..I really do

I watched his and Keiras commentary again and I have to say this cracked me up..when the little girl is speaking he says somethign like:

she has better manner of speaking than you do to Keira..... or something.

.made me laugh

Norrington rocks. He's the most interesting character of the entire series. I'm serious. The other characters all had the potential to go one way or another, but James is the one who has changed the most, and whatever choices he makes in the next film will probably swing the battle one way or the other.


*sighs* There is simply not enough of his character in these films.

he wont be the Beckett character again..Beckett is positivley EVIL

Norrie and all the other "villains" have been given a side that is compassionate but beckett is just an evil...evil little man
not saying Norrie is a villain...he kinda was in movie 1..and he's kinda like tip toeing on both sides.

come to think of it al the characters tip toe on both sides..except Beckett who is evil..and Mercer..

This would be a good ending that would explain why Orli and Keira are the only ones filming...
This kind of a fan fic thing.

We see Liz kneeling by a tombstone, we notice that it says William Turner. Liz is talking to his tomb as if she is talking to him. She closes her eyes and opens them slightly to see a figure standing in front of her. Clearly revealing that is Will.

- Liz
(whispering) Will? is it you?

- Will's souls
yes Elizabeth

- Liz
I cant believe this, ( a tear slides down her cheek)
Will I'm sorry I ..(she starts explaining but he cuts her off)

- Will
(taking her hand and kneeling in front of her) Elizabeth you don't have to be sorry, this is where your heart always have lay. I'm sorry for not seeing it before. I certainly now understand that your happiness was somewhere else. But, because of my own selfish ways I did not see it before.

-Liz
Will I must tell that I have always love and cared about you. I will always carry your memories in my heart.

- Will
I have no doubt in your words, I know they say the truth. Elizabeth, I just want you to be happy, and I know you are. I will always watch over you, I promise.

-Liz
You were a great man Will, I will never forget you. Thank you.

(Will slightly smiles, he lets go of Liz hand and stands up)

- Will
good bye Elizabeth

-Liz
(with tears running down her cheeks) good bye Will

while Will is still standing in front of her, Liz closes her eyes and instantly opens them again, now revealing no one standing in front of her. She smiles slightly. Then we notice someone walking towards her from behind.

The camera reveals that is Jack

- Jack
Elizabeth..(Liz turns around, Jack can see that she has been crying)
(with a worried look on his face) are you alright?

-Liz
I'll be fine (she smiles)

-Jack
(slightly smiling) good
we must leave now, love.

-Liz
ok (they walk away but Liz turns around and glimpses on last time at Will's tomb)


The end.... Hope you liked it. I'm just trying to keep the hopes up

Well, in movie one, Norrington was simply struggling with being a man who upholds the law, and then having the slow realization that the law just might be wrong...


It's not an easy lesson to learn, and for someone like Norrington, who has everything in a neat little order, this was probably quite a shock to him. He was never a villian, he just wasn't as sympathetic as the other characters. I really wish his scene with Elizabeth had not been cut from the first film...that really showed you what kind of man he was.


But yeah, Norrington was toeing the line of being a villain in DMC. He was struggling with the mistakes he had made, and his desire to catch Jack Sparrow.


I know we can't take everything the writers say as the total truth, but an interesting thing one of them said about Norrington is that he may have been working so hard to catch Jack because he heard about what was going to happen to himself, Elizabeth and Will (I mean the arrest and possible death sentence).


So James isn't totally evil, and hopefully he'll move from the dark side to the lighter side in the third film. I hope so! And I hope he doesn't die. I'll be so depressed if he does.

that cheered me up a bit lol. Though I had a similar ending to that...I mean as a theory. Im gonna post my thoughts on it.

Surreal, have you talked to SailorLeo? I think the two of you would get along. Sailor is a big Norrie fan as well.

yea they both talked

Thank you for responding for me, Chiki.


Sailor and I have exchanged a few sentences. I know she's a big Norrington fan.


By the way, anyone hear how James will look in the next film? Is there hope for a cleaned up version of Scruffington?

he's cleaned up..back to Admiral apparently

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
that cheered me up a bit lol. Though I had a similar ending to that...I mean as a theory. Im gonna post my thoughts on it.

Do tell dearie

Im gonna post a thread about it...Its a feeling. Its driving me crazy lol. And Im in a good mood

Ah well...I did so love him in his uniform. So I can live with that. It's really his voice that gets me though. I was like "It's HIM!!!" when I first heard him speak in DMC. So lovely...so deep...and so different from the first film! Not the deepness, just the tone and delivery of lines. Jack Davenport did a wonderful job with his character.

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
Im gonna post a thread about it...Its a feeling. Its driving me crazy lol. And Im in a good mood

ok cool

Originally posted by Surreal_44
Ah well...I did so love him in his uniform. So I can live with that. It's really his voice that gets me though. I was like "It's HIM!!!" when I first heard him speak in DMC. So lovely...so deep...and so different from the first film! Not the deepness, just the tone and delivery of lines. Jack Davenport did a wonderful job with his character. It's the Davenport!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Surreal_44
Well, in movie one, Norrington was simply struggling with being a man who upholds the law, and then having the slow realization that the law just might be wrong...


It's not an easy lesson to learn, and for someone like Norrington, who has everything in a neat little order, this was probably quite a shock to him. He was never a villian, he just wasn't as sympathetic as the other characters. I really wish his scene with Elizabeth had not been cut from the first film...that really showed you what kind of man he was.


But yeah, Norrington was toeing the line of being a villain in DMC. He was struggling with the mistakes he had made, and his desire to catch Jack Sparrow.


I know we can't take everything the writers say as the total truth, but an interesting thing one of them said about Norrington is that he may have been working so hard to catch Jack because he heard about what was going to happen to himself, Elizabeth and Will (I mean the arrest and possible death sentence).


So James isn't totally evil, and hopefully he'll move from the dark side to the lighter side in the third film. I hope so! And I hope he doesn't die. I'll be so depressed if he does.
i think he was more of a villian in the first one, the second one he just seemed broken and out to defend him self...in the very early stages of lovelyone's hero steps.....he's like the no holds bar, loose cannon....pirate, who's in it for himself

Originally posted by Surreal_44
Norrington rocks. He's the most interesting character of the entire series. I'm serious. The other characters all had the potential to go one way or another, but James is the one who has changed the most, and whatever choices he makes in the next film will probably swing the battle one way or the other.


*sighs* There is simply not enough of his character in these films. :nods: mhhhmmm mhhmm, i hear yeah, he should just get his own movie...all he has to do is talk the entire time and i'll be satisfied

Explain how Norrington was a villain in the first movie, please. I never really saw it that way, so I'd be glad to hear the other side.

Norrington was originally written as a villian actually. In the original version of one, he joined forces with Barbossa. But that changed big time, obviously.

I dont see him as a villian in 1, i see him as a very wonderful guy. He's the glue that holds them all together...

EDIT ^^ OH MY WORD!

In movie 1..I dont think he was much of a villain he ws torn between 2 things..Barbossa was the real villain of the piece..although even he showed good qualities about him.

you can see James was a good man at the end because he let Jack go.

well you didn't want him to win because that would mean bad things for sparrow, so maybe he's more like the antagonist maybe not so much a villian

ps... i see the evilness behind that smiliey....

I know James was written to be a villain, and I'm so pleased with what they did with his character instead. I really enjoyed that other script of CotBP, where he lets the pirates go himself. I got the biggest kick out of that.


And the image of him standing at the helm, sailing the Dauntless to Isle de Muerta...*swoons* Isn't that just a lovely thought?

heee hee...especially if it's been raining....and there's....im gonna stop now...

There is no evilness behind that smilie.


I see what you're saying. It's a problem that kind of bugged me, because it wasn't like Norrington was being horrible...he was just doing his job. True, he was also quite prideful, but at the same time, nothing he did really fits with the idea of him even being...well...mean.


I guess a lot of people don't view it that way. Maybe it's because I'm friends with so many police and military officers. I just get really irritated when people act like those who uphold the law are doing something wrong.

when decent men kill people for a living..they have to make light of the situation and pretend those people are nothing more than animals.

which is what worries me about will because its not his job he just hates them like a racist would hate someone for no reason other than what they are.

I think Norrie's experience of being a pirate himself will decide his fate in movie 3. It may be a key to his redemption.

Also, when you kill people for a living, you have to remove yourself from emotion. In one of the visual guides, it mentioned how emotionless Norrington seemed because he can't show emotion in front of his men, and that lack of emotion was one thing that turned Elizabeth off.


I always wished Norrington had kissed Liz before he ran off with the chest. Since Jack and Will got to snog her, it's only fair Norrington gets to do it too.

OMG an American said SNOG ahahaha

Um......Lovely, I missed something in your post, hon, and I really need to address it.


Hating pirates isn't like racism.


Aside from our kissable Jack, huggable Gibbs and a few other pirates from Jack's crew, have any of the pirates we've ever seen in these movies been...nice??


No.


Will's hatred of pirates has a lot to do with his trauma from when the ship he was on was destroyed by pirates. What Will IS doing however is just automatically assuming that all pirates are evil.


We know better, and Will eventually learns this later. His dislike of them is not at all strange, considering what he went through. Acting like Will is being super evil for not trusting or liking pirates is like asking a rape victim to not be distrustful of strange men.


That was the best comparison I could think of. Sorry it was a bit graphic...


It isn't entirely fair to Will's character to act as if he was in the wrong for being angry, fearful and suspicious of anyone who was a pirate. He probably saw a tremendous amount of death and random destruction for no other reason except for greed. I wouldn't like pirates either if I had been in that situation.

I blame Harry Potter

but I could have a hatred for say all..Asian people because one or two of them killed my dad or something does tht make it OK for me to hate them all and kill any that cross my path because of what a select few did? Before I even know what kind of peole they may be?

You see it all the time. Many people(ignorant horrible people) discriminate against black people because they think they are all murderers or rapists or are all out for trouble when they are not.

Does a mere generalization or a bad experience with a select few give those descriminitive people a right to murder a black man that crosses their path?

heck no..

..I think will generalizes..and discriminates..which is rather like a racist...its interesting that T&T and Johnny talked/picked up on the fact that Will is the first person in the entire franchise to Kill someone on screen.

will treats them as animals, calles them "it"

all the trademarks of a discriminitive person

EDIT - lol and Harry Potter ROCKS!