Wolverine Vs Sabertooth

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Ricodrayz
This thread is for after everyone's upgrade. Interesting on what I see people saying about who wins. Speak who wins and reasons for it; then say how much out of 10.

It's just me but shouldn't Sabertooth win the majority?

Ricodrayz
*Looks at Capt*

Tha C-Master
Sabretooth should win the majority.

usagi_yojimbo
Originally posted by Ricodrayz
This thread is for after everyone's upgrade. Interesting on what I see people saying about who wins. Speak who wins and reasons for it; then say how much out of 10.

It's just me but shouldn't Sabertooth win the majority?

Sabertooth has been ridiculously upgraded. He's worse than Wolverine now. I'd even go as far as stating nothing short of someone Hulk level strength can defeat him now.

Soljer
I'm not going to make any sort of judgement on this thread.

However...

Sabretooth is faster, stronger, has a healing factor that is at LEAST on Wolverine's level, possibly stronger, has the same adamantium skeleton, and has adamantium claws.

Wolverine has superior skills and tactical knowledge. And intelligence.

Jyppe
Wolverine does have a slight skill, reach, advantage and his claws are deadlier..

Soljer
Originally posted by Jyppe
Wolverine does have a slight skill, reach, advantage and his claws are deadlier..

A VERY slight reach advantage, considering that Sabertooth is..what...a foot taller than him? At Least?

Ricodrayz
Pretty much what I thought laughing

V for Valentine
Originally posted by Soljer
A VERY slight reach advantage, considering that Sabertooth is..what...a foot taller than him? At Least?

Wolverine's claws are three feet long smile Victors are rather puny, maybe that's what he meant?

Soljer
Originally posted by V for Valentine
Wolverine's claws are three feet long smile Victors are rather puny, maybe that's what he meant?

I know what he meant.

I was making fun of Wolverine for being short.

Oh, and Wolverine's claws are NOT three foot long. If they were, they'd drag the ground if he ever put his arms at his sides.

JediMasterLuke5
Come on its Wolverine wink , I got to give it to him. He baddest mother efin human there is next to batman. Well Sabertooth has the strength and Height advantage, but Wolverine is a better straight up fighter, like I said I got to give it to Wolverine mainly becuz of his fighting skills. Wolverine 8/10

Soljer
Originally posted by JediMasterLuke5
Come on its Wolverine wink , I got to give it to him. He baddest mother efin human there is next to batman. Well Sabertooth has the strength and Height advantage, but Wolverine is a better straight up fighter, like I said I got to give it to Wolverine mainly becuz of his fighting skills. Wolverine 8/10

Sabretooth is also much faster and vicious. erm.

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by Soljer
I know what he meant.

I was making fun of Wolverine for being short.

Oh, and Wolverine's claws are NOT three foot long. If they were, they'd drag the ground if he ever put his arms at his sides.

Yeah rofl. THREE FEET?
you (the person that originally said it, not you) realize that is the size of a mini kitana -- or a small child right?

JediMasterLuke5
Originally posted by Soljer
Sabretooth is also much faster and vicious. erm.
But its Wolverine, of course he's going to win. wink He scrappy fighting will prevail. smile

Ricodrayz
Originally posted by JediMasterLuke5
But its Wolverine, of course he's going to win. wink He scrappy fighting will prevail. smile Sabertooth still should win more often than Wolverine. no

JediMasterLuke5
Originally posted by Ricodrayz
Sabertooth still should win more often than Wolverine. no
Maybe so, I just see Wolverine winning becuz he's a bad ass

Ricodrayz
Originally posted by JediMasterLuke5
Maybe so, I just see Wolverine winning becuz he's a bad ass lol well, that wouldn't help him in a fight against Sabertooth who is also a badass guy with hair....

draxx_tOfU
Originally posted by Ricodrayz
Sabertooth still should win more often than Wolverine. no

in kmc rules, yes...

but in the comics, no...

juggernaut66666
Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
in kmc rules, yes...

but in the comics, no...
In comics Wolverine stabbed Thanos with Ig.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by V for Valentine
Wolverine's claws are three feet long smile Victors are rather puny, maybe that's what he meant?

Three feet is more than half of his whole body height. That would be pretty funny.

No. Each claw is 12" (or 1 foot) long.

python99
i have the first have the first comic where Sabretooth was introduced with adamantim. Wolverine #126 is where sabretooth beats Wolverine to a pulp. He basically knock Wolverine out with a few punches, breaks Wolverines bone claws one one hand and tosses him over a bridge. After seeing a beating like that Sabretooth should win the majority

Soljer
Bump.

Current versions of both combatants, still. smile.

NiņoAraņa
Sabertooth

guy222
Originally posted by Ricodrayz
This thread is for after everyone's upgrade. Interesting on what I see people saying about who wins. Speak who wins and reasons for it; then say how much out of 10.

It's just me but shouldn't Sabertooth win the majority?

Wolverine 10/10
Can't be killed unless head severed Sabes won't do that
Logan and Creed should have been related

lorddreamer
The site rules say its always bloodlust, so Creed would do that^ and how would Wolverine beat someone stronger, faster, crazier, longer reaching? And it's not like Creed can't fight!
Sabertooth: 8.5/10

Soljer
Originally posted by guy222
Wolverine 10/10
Can't be killed unless head severed Sabes won't do that
Logan and Creed should have been related

1) Why would his head need to be severed? Logan's healed from decapitation at LEAST once to my memory.

2) There are other methods to kill him besides decapitation.

3) Sabretooth doesn't need to kill Logan to win a fight.

Beta Ray Howard
These fights can go to KO, fyi.

I'd give the edge to Sabes due to his strength advantage.

norrinradd43
Originally posted by Jyppe
Wolverine does have a slight skill, reach, advantage and his claws are deadlier.. I know the claws are longer but isnt wolverine lik 5'3

Metalmanx
Originally posted by python99
i have the first have the first comic where Sabretooth was introduced with adamantim. Wolverine #126 is where sabretooth beats Wolverine to a pulp. He basically knock Wolverine out with a few punches, breaks Wolverines bone claws one one hand and tosses him over a bridge. After seeing a beating like that Sabretooth should win the majority

Hm. Interesting. Bone-Claw Wolverine's healing factor was stronger, too. And yet Creed put him down with a few punches?

And yet, Spider-Man is (at least from everything I've seen) stronger than Sabretooth, and people don't think he can knock Wolverine out with punches. Hm.

But that's for another thread altogether.

Sabretooh wins this match 9/10.

wannabe
Originally posted by python99
i have the first have the first comic where Sabretooth was introduced with adamantim. Wolverine #126 is where sabretooth beats Wolverine to a pulp. He basically knock Wolverine out with a few punches, breaks Wolverines bone claws one one hand and tosses him over a bridge. After seeing a beating like that Sabretooth should win the majority Well, and pretty much the next time the two met in Apoc's Arena, Bone-Claw-Wolverine took out Adamantium-Sabretooth in no time...what does that tell us? - NOTHING!
Wolverine's and Sabretooth' regeneration, strength, agility, durability and combat skills have been handled so extremely inconsistent and contradictory over the years that a good estimation of a fight between them seems almost impossible. The only depicted halfway consistency is Wolverine's slight advantage in speed and skill and Sabe's advantage in strength.

Wolverine 5/10 wink

qqqqqqq
Originally posted by Soljer
1) Why would his head need to be severed? Logan's healed from decapitation at LEAST once to my memory. that was when wolverine did not have adamantium laced skeletons. The Xavier Protocols reveal that the removal of adamantium from Wolverine's skeleton increased his healing factor to "incredible levels" and that the only way to kill him is to remove his head from the vicinity of his body. but still wolverine FTW.

guy222
Originally posted by Soljer
1) Why would his head need to be severed? Logan's healed from decapitation at LEAST once to my memory.

2) There are other methods to kill him besides decapitation.

3) Sabretooth doesn't need to kill Logan to win a fight.

Logan's healing factor superior

jinzin
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Hm. Interesting. Bone-Claw Wolverine's healing factor was stronger, too. And yet Creed put him down with a few punches?

And yet, Spider-Man is (at least from everything I've seen) stronger than Sabretooth, and people don't think he can knock Wolverine out with punches. Hm.

But that's for another thread altogether.

Sabretooh wins this match 9/10.

well for one, people argue for an admantiumized wolverine's durability against spiderman's punches.. when sabretooth was punching him, he was pulverizing logan's bones, spiderman vs. an admantiumized logan doesn't have that luxury.

Secondly, it wasn't a few punches, they had a long drawn out fight where sabretooth played possem for the majority.

Finally, when sabes did put logan down it was with punches and slashes (common how often does sabretooth punch? pffft), and the final hit he nailed on wolverine was a slash to wolvie's throat, ripping it out.

Also, wolverine with an adamantium skeleton can put the hurtin on class 10's, class 20's, hell even up to class 70's... add spiderman's strength and an admantium skeleton and you've got punches that feel like indestructible freight train's hittin ya... in other words.. sabretooth.

jinzin
Originally posted by wannabe
Well, and pretty much the next time the two met in Apoc's Arena, Bone-Claw-Wolverine took out Adamantium-Sabretooth in no time...what does that tell us? - NOTHING!
Wolverine's and Sabretooth' regeneration, strength, agility, durability and combat skills have been handled so extremely inconsistent and contradictory over the years that a good estimation of a fight between them seems almost impossible. The only depicted halfway consistency is Wolverine's slight advantage in speed and skill and Sabe's advantage in strength.

Wolverine 5/10 wink wolverine has no advantage in speed.. creed is stronger, faster, more durable, has a better healing factor, and better senses...

wolverine has his skills... that's it.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Three feet is more than half of his whole body height. That would be pretty funny.

No. Each claw is 12" (or 1 foot) long.

the error comes from the statement he has "three foot long claws on each hand"

Beta Ray Howard
3 foot long claws? If Wolverine had 3 foot long forearms, he'd be a damn gorilla.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
3 foot long claws? If Wolverine had 3 foot long forearms, he'd be a damn gorilla.

the statement is meant to be read "wolvorine has 3, one foot long claws on each hand." However many sources do not write it this way. As a result some one said that wolvorine had claws that were three feet long

either way Sabertooth takes the majority

lorddreamer
Originally posted by jinzin
wolverine has no advantage in speed.. creed is stronger, faster, more durable, has a better healing factor, and better senses...

wolverine has his skills... that's it.

Exactly.

jgiant
The Tooth takes this, he is one hardcore, vicious mother fuker...he took down the f'in windigo!!!

riceroost
Draw.

Creed has the advantage physically, but it's never really meant a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. He's not so much stronger or faster that he's ever truly overwealmed Wolverine physically, except when he had the adamantium and Logan didn't, and even then Wolverine has an impressive victory over an adamantium coated Creed during the whole "Death" episode.

I'm also not convinced Creed has a stronger healing factor anymore. He did in like Wolverine # 126, but that was a VERY long time ago and since then Wolverine's HF has been shown to be on a whole other level. Wolverine's HF has pulled off some crazy feats that we've never seen Creed manage.

Wolverine also has the added bonus of his claws causing a LOT more damage than Creed's do. They are just built better for causing massive damage. Creed cant really easily cause instant massive damage, especially against someone with an adamantium skeleton protecting their inards. Wolverine can. One thrust and Wolverine can completely impale an opponent with ease. Creed has to work for it with his much shorter claws. Wolverine has dropped Creed with a single claw attack several times. Creed has yet to do the same. He just causes more damage.

At the end of the day they are pretty even in my eyes. Creed had some advantages, but Wolverine's skill and higher damage potential even it out. Wolverine also wins the majority of their fights so it's silly to count him out as easily as some do.

Arachnid1
Originally posted by Soljer
I know what he meant.

I was making fun of Wolverine for being short.

Oh, and Wolverine's claws are NOT three foot long. If they were, they'd drag the ground if he ever put his arms at his sides.

If they were, he would only be 2 ft. 4 in. taller than them. laughing

Arachnid1
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
the statement is meant to be read "wolvorine has 3, one foot long claws on each hand." However many sources do not write it this way. As a result some one said that wolvorine had claws that were three feet long

either way Sabertooth takes the majority

Ohhh. That explains that. Ingnore my other post.

As for this fight, Wolverine was almost never bested by Sabes before but that may have been PIS. I give it to sabes 6/10

The Fake Macoy
Who remembers how they introduced Sabretooth to Wolverine? Sabretooth was the guy who would, on Wolverine's birthday, stalk Wolverine and then brutalize him, all without Wolverine knowing or being able to stop him. Yeah, Sabretooth has too much going for him. He really should beat Wolverine more often then not in a close fight.

ExtraMision5555
sabertooth is generally cooler, and on that merit, sabertooth 6/10

riceroost
Originally posted by The Fake Macoy
Sabretooth was the guy who would, on Wolverine's birthday, stalk Wolverine and then brutalize him, all without Wolverine knowing or being able to stop him. He'd leave his mark on Wolverine every year by attacking him, not beating him. He doesn't even attack Wolverine every year. One year in Madripoor he killed a bunch of people that were trying to kill Patch. He actually helped him out instead of going after him.

That statment most likely refers to an ambush attack by Sabretooth, which is exactly what Sabretooth did the only time we saw him attack Wolverine on his birthday. In a Classic X-Men back-up story Sabretooth sneak attacks Logan from behind, throws him into the water, and then runs away. No fight there.

guy222
Originally posted by norrinradd43
I know the claws are longer but isnt wolverine lik 5'3

creed is tall like me smile

riceroost
Originally posted by Arachnid1
As for this fight, Wolverine was almost never bested by Sabes before but that may have been PIS. Wolverine has beaten Creed like 28 times now. I find it a liiiiiittle hard to accept that all those wins are PIS.

Badabing
Originally posted by riceroost
Wolverine has beaten Creed like 28 times now. I find it a liiiiiittle hard to accept that all those wins are PIS.
But they were. sad
















stick out tongue

lorddreamer
Originally posted by riceroost
Wolverine has beaten Creed like 28 times now. I find it a liiiiiittle hard to accept that all those wins are PIS.

wow.. thats a lot of wins... how many times has Fantastic four taken Galactus? How many times has Flash been punched? How many times has Batman been tricked (stick out tongue)?

jinzin
Originally posted by riceroost
Draw.

Creed has the advantage physically, but it's never really meant a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. He's not so much stronger or faster that he's ever truly overwealmed Wolverine physically, except when he had the adamantium and Logan didn't, and even then Wolverine has an impressive victory over an adamantium coated Creed during the whole "Death" episode.

wolverine got a win over a cocky creed who thought he already won the fight.

creed's overwhelmed wolverine in wolverine v3. 19, wolverine v2. 166, and again in an xmen classics book (i think)... he's also beat wolverine down on damn near ever b-day by wolverine's own admission.

Originally posted by riceroost
I'm also not convinced Creed has a stronger healing factor anymore. He did in like Wolverine # 126, but that was a VERY long time ago and since then Wolverine's HF has been shown to be on a whole other level. Wolverine's HF has pulled off some crazy feats that we've never seen Creed manage.

wolverine has a lot more on panal going for him than creed.. credd still has impressive feats...

I don't think wovlerine would emerge unscathed from an all out assault by magma, creed did.

creed also remained concious after getting melted to near bone by sunfire which is pretty impressive..

and recovered from being cut into chunks ( or pieces as wolverine described) their HF seems very much to be at the same level..


Originally posted by riceroost
Wolverine also has the added bonus of his claws causing a LOT more damage than Creed's do. They are just built better for causing massive damage. Creed cant really easily cause instant massive damage, especially against someone with an adamantium skeleton protecting their inards. Wolverine can. One thrust and Wolverine can completely impale an opponent with ease. Creed has to work for it with his much shorter claws. Wolverine has dropped Creed with a single claw attack several times. Creed has yet to do the same. He just causes more damage. creed used to give wolvie ass kicking before he had the adamantium and his upgrades, you think he wouldn't fair better now?

Originally posted by riceroost
At the end of the day they are pretty even in my eyes. Creed had some advantages, but Wolverine's skill and higher damage potential even it out. Wolverine also wins the majority of their fights so it's silly to count him out as easily as some do. on panal. not off.

guy222
Originally posted by Badabing
But they were. sad
















stick out tongue

creed lost to power man smokin'

Soljer
Originally posted by jinzin
wolverine got a win over a cocky creed who thought he already won the fight.

creed's overwhelmed wolverine in wolverine v3. 19, wolverine v2. 166, and again in an xmen classics book (i think)... he's also beat wolverine down on damn near ever b-day by wolverine's own admission.



wolverine has a lot more on panal going for him than creed.. credd still has impressive feats...

I don't think wovlerine would emerge unscathed from an all out assault by magma, creed did.

creed also remained concious after getting melted to near bone by sunfire which is pretty impressive..

and recovered from being cut into chunks ( or pieces as wolverine described) their HF seems very much to be at the same level..


creed used to give wolvie ass kicking before he had the adamantium and his upgrades, you think he wouldn't fair better now?

on panal. not off.

Co-signed.

Riceroost, I'm sorry, but your boy loses here.

Jyppe
It's so good to see 2 Wolverine fans arguing against each other for a chance :P

Anyways, Creed wins the majority here. Does he have any good skill feats though?

jinzin
Originally posted by Jyppe
It's so good to see 2 Wolverine fans arguing against each other for a chance :P

Anyways, Creed wins the majority here. Does he have any good skill feats though?

yeah he's got a couple....

he's shown using martial arts skill against kitty pride in a hand to hand fight once, while she got the upper hand on him, it was through the use of phasing.

he's also shown fair grappling skills, getting an armbar on a supersoldier who had luke cage-like skin and then breaking the bone.

During their fight in wolverine 126 he played possem, allowing wolverine to hit him, but not allowing for any hits to be bone on bone (in order to keep his admantium secret)-- that showed how he can let wolverine hit him only the way he wants should that be his motivation.

Of course non of this is anything seriously major, but it's not bad for a character who was originally written to not have ANY skill whatsoever in fighting...

it's of note that wolverine thinks that sabretooth's fighting ability is superb.

Wolverine2006
I would give this fight to Wolverine 5.5/10 but we'll find out when Wolverine #50 comes out.

riceroost
Originally posted by jinzin
wolverine got a win over a cocky creed who thought he already won the fight.Creed only hit Wolverine like twice in that fight and both times Wolverine responded with a counterblow. There is no evidence to support that Creed was being any more overconfident than he usually is. Which is pretty much all the time. There is also no evidence that Creed was holding back in any way. Point is Bone Claws TROUNCED an adamantium Sabretooth who had a better healing factor than he did. The pics speak for themselves. As soon as Wolverine got pissed off that fight was OVER.

http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/5156/sabretoothdeath1qp8.jpg

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/1272/sabretoothdeath2ta6.jpg

http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/2484/sabretoothdeath3pz4.jpg
Originally posted by jinzin
creed's overwhelmed wolverine in wolverine v3. 19, wolverine v2. 166,.And Wolverine badly overwhelmed Sabretooth in the above fight. Besides that Wolverine has one shotted Sabretooth several times including Inferno. They both have their fair share of quick victories over the other. I believe Wolverine has more than Creed.
http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/9172/infernoxx7.jpg

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/8479/flashback1pl6.jpg

http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/6582/flashback2ix2.jpg

Doesn't even bother with claws here.
http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/5459/logansabreui0.jpg
Originally posted by jinzin
and again in an xmen classics book (i think)... he's also beat wolverine down on damn near ever b-day by wolverine's own admission.Yeah because he snuck up behind Wolverine and tore out his throat before Wolverine knew he was there. Not exactly a straight up 1 on 1 fight. Wolverine has stated to my knowledge that Creed has, "Left his mark on me every year." Which in no way means Sabretooth beat his ass every single year. It means he's attacked me every year. Creed probably snuck up on him and cheap shotted him like he did in the Classic X-Men back-up. If a suprise attack means an advantage to you then all I can say is:

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6578/foxisdeadpy9.jpg
Originally posted by jinzin
creed used to give wolvie ass kicking before he had the adamantium and his upgrades, you think he wouldn't fair better now?And Wolverine kicked Sabretooth's ass just as many times if not more. In fact it is more. In fact Wolverine with NO POWERS has utterly embarassed Sabretooth who did have powers. Happened shortly after the Mutant Massacre:

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/4757/marauderbo9.jpg
Originally posted by jinzin
on panal. not off. You do not know that. We dont know the results of all their off panel fights. Common sense would indicate they follow the pattern of their on panel fights, most of which involve Wolverine winning or at least stalemating him.

Batman-Prime
Wolverine 8/10

bigbran
Fan vs fan? The damn universe is busting in half!

Get the popcorn, this is good.

capt it up
maybe I should post some of there fights............

capt it up

jinzin
Originally posted by riceroost
Creed only hit Wolverine like twice in that fight and both times Wolverine responded with a counterblow. There is no evidence to support that Creed was being any more overconfident than he usually is. Which is pretty much all the time. There is also no evidence that Creed was holding back in any way. Point is Bone Claws TROUNCED an adamantium Sabretooth who had a better healing factor than he did. The pics speak for themselves. As soon as Wolverine got pissed off that fight was OVER.
Again sabes was easily just getting overconfident.. that fight was over cause creed pretty much thought the fight was ALREADY over.. logan was on the ground, bleeding and half broken... wolverine being able to gut an overconfident sabes means near nothing when during the FIGHT part of the fight sabes was kicking his ass.



Originally posted by riceroost
And Wolverine badly overwhelmed Sabretooth in the above fight. Besides that Wolverine has one shotted Sabretooth several times including Inferno. They both have their fair share of quick victories over the other. I believe Wolverine has more than Creed.

on panal, not off.


Originally posted by riceroost
Doesn't even bother with claws here.
creed didn't bother with claws in their first encounter...


Originally posted by riceroost
Yeah because he snuck up behind Wolverine and tore out his throat before Wolverine knew he was there. Not exactly a straight up 1 on 1 fight. Wolverine has stated to my knowledge that Creed has, "Left his mark on me every year." Which in no way means Sabretooth beat his ass every single year. It means he's attacked me every year. Creed probably snuck up on him and cheap shotted him like he did in the Classic X-Men back-up. If a suprise attack means an advantage to you then all I can say is:

wolverine knew he was there.. hell he knew it all night.. in fact he was prepped for a fight when he CALLED SABRETOOTH OUT... that right there should be enough to prove sabretooth's superiority.

It's been stated in multiple X-men books that sabretooth beat wolverine every single time they met til wolverine joined the x-men.

Originally posted by riceroost
And Wolverine kicked Sabretooth's ass just as many times if not more. In fact it is more. In fact Wolverine with NO POWERS has utterly embarassed Sabretooth who did have powers. Happened shortly after the Mutant Massacre:
is it more? I mean seriously? is it?
sabretooth made wolverine run away in their first encounter in the mutant massacre.. wolverine's needed help from power pack to fight sabes on at least two occasions, sabretooth left logan for dead in their first fight, stalemated logan in their fight in uncanny 213, PWNED logan in h2h in wolverine 90, completetely kicked the crap out of logan in wolverine 126, was doing it again in 145, did it yet AGAIN in wolverine 166, left logan for dead in wolverine (vol.2) 19, and was about to do it again in wolverine (vol.2) 50.

If logan has more wins they're definitely circumstantal or off panal.. period.


the only way logan beats creed is when he has an edge like admantium over bone... when they're on a level playing field.. it's more often then not sabretooth's game all the way baby.

Originally posted by riceroost
You do not know that. We dont know the results of all their off panel fights. Common sense would indicate they follow the pattern of their on panel fights, most of which involve Wolverine winning or at least stalemating him.

and common sense would indicate that when sabrertooth's boasting about all the times he's beaten logan in the past and logan doesn't say anything to dispute it, that he's probably not lying.. erm

jasonk3
sabertooth 7/10

SpunkySmurph
Spiderman ftw. ninja

long pig
Meh, adamantium sabretooth went the way of the dodo.

BUT

Sabretooth's weird blood frenzy is his weakness, that's how Wolvie whoops him.

riceroost
Originally posted by jinzin
Again sabes was easily just getting overconfident.Prove it. That is not stated or alluded to ANYWHERE in that comic.
Originally posted by jinzin
that fight was over cause creed pretty much thought the fight was ALREADY over.Wrong again since Creed does not state or even think that ANYWHERE in that issue. I'd like to know where you get these ideas.
Originally posted by jinzin
logan was on the ground, bleeding and half broken...??? What are you on man? Logan was on the ground diving out of the way of Creed's initail attack. (Which came from behind once again.) Wolverine then kicks a leaping Creed away from him into the darkness. Creed than slashed Logan's back from behind, which threw Logan to the ground. Logan gets right back up. Creed punches him in the ribs. Some ribs break (not half broken by any means) Creed slashes Logan's face and then Wolvy kicks Creed in the head. They are then standing toe to toe staring right at each other. Wolverine was not beaten he was standing right in front of Sabretooth.
Originally posted by jinzin
wolverine being able to gut an overconfident sabes means near nothing.You make it sound like Creed stopped fighting after Logan kicked him in the face. I dont know why in the hell you think that. After they have a STANDOFF Wolverine roars at Creed and slashes him across the face. CREED SLASHES BACK AT WOLVERINE, but Wolverine DUCKS THE SLASH and evicerates Creed, lifting him over his head. Face facts Jinzin Creed got gutted because Wolverine ducked Creed's attack, not because Creed stood around letting it happen. If anything Creed knew the fight was REALLY on after Wolverine roars in his face.
Originally posted by jinzin
when during the FIGHT part of the fight sabes was kicking his ass.A FIGHT isn't over until someone verbally gives up or physically cant continue. Non of those occurred anywhere in that fight until Wolverine savages Creed's body. During the initial stages of the fight Creed only hits Wolverine 3 times after which Wolverine hit him back and then stood toe to toe with him. The fight was nowhere near over and Creed was well aware of that fact.
Originally posted by jinzin
on panal, not off.On panel YES. Off panel we DONT KNOW.
Originally posted by jinzin
creed didn't bother with claws in their first encounter....
Go back and read Wolverine # 10 again. Sabretooth does slash his claws across Wolverine's chest. So yer wrong.
Originally posted by jinzin
wolverine knew he was there.. hell he knew it all night.. in fact he was prepped for a fight when he CALLED SABRETOOTH OUT... that right there should be enough to prove sabretooth's superiority.If Sabretooth came out of the water directly behind Logan and blinsided him I sincerely doubt Wolverine knew where he was. Pretty obvious. Creed used the water to hide his scent.
Originally posted by jinzin
It's been stated in multiple X-men books that sabretooth beat wolverine every single time they met til wolverine joined the x-men. I own every X-Book and I can't find a reference to what yer talking about. The only reference I know of is in Uncanny # 213 where Pyslocke witnesses their first battle. That is the only fight she speaks of.
Originally posted by jinzin
is it more? I mean seriously? is it? sabretooth made wolverine run away in their first encounter in the mutant massacre.
That's bull$hit and you know it. Wolverine had Sabretooth pinned and helpless before he left so Wolverine technically won that fight. Two he had to get the Morlock healer back to the X-Mansion which is stated in that very same issue. He didn't run from anything he had more important things to do. Three Wolverine was in very bad shape for that fight. During the entire Massacre he is still hurting from his fight with Deathstrike. You should know that.
Originally posted by jinzin
wolverine's needed help from power pack to fight sabes on at least two occasions,
That's more crap. Powerpack didn't help Logan fight creed during the massacre issue, they merely pass by Wolverine on his way to fight creed if my memory serves. And the only other time that fight happens in power pack it happened like last year in a kids book which is not in continuity. I'm also reasonably sure that fight was nowhere near coming close to completion. Power Pack just intervened without Wolverine needing or wanting their help.
Originally posted by jinzin
sabretooth left logan for dead in their first fight,
True, but both were knocked at the completion of the fight thanks to Wolverine tackling Creed over a cliff. Creed just woke up first. That was also Wolverine's first ever loss and it was before he aquired any fighting skill in his own words.

Wolverine left Creed for dead in Logan: Shadow Society. Whats yer point?
Originally posted by jinzin
stalemated logan in their fight in uncanny 213,
They were dead even.
Originally posted by jinzin
PWNED logan in h2h in wolverine 90,
No he didn't. 1 Creed was using claws and Wolverine wasn't. 2 Creed wasn't holding back and Wolverine was holding back A LOT. 3 When Wolverine finally got pissed enough not to hold back he turned the tide of the fight in a single move by plowing Creed's face into a wall with a nasty throw. That fight ends with someone labotamized and it wasn't Logan.
Originally posted by jinzin
completetely kicked the crap out of logan in wolverine 126,
After being newly upgraded.
Originally posted by jinzin
was doing it again in 145,
Wolverine wrecked Creed in that fight BADLY. Creed hit him twice and then Logan unleashed the fury.
Originally posted by jinzin
did it yet AGAIN in wolverine 166,
No one won that fight. That fight got stopped by the Shiver Man. Creed had just been upgraded by Weapon X AGAIN with speed, strength, and durability enhancements. Wolverine is also recovering from his ordeal in the Cell, his confrontation with Mauvis, and being shot hundreds of times by Weapon X soldiers. All Wolverine says is he doesn't know if he can take Creed this time. He never says he is beaten.
Originally posted by jinzin
left logan for dead in wolverine (vol.2) 19,
True. However Wolverine wrecked Creed TWICE in X-Men during the same time period.
Originally posted by jinzin
and was about to do it again in wolverine (vol.2) 50.
??? What are you talking about? We wont know who wins this time till Part 6. So far they are dead even with Wolverine landing most of the hits and showing far more skill. The only thing Creed did that was noteworthy was ripping Logan's spine out of the back of his neck and Wolverine recovered from that instantly. He didn't even hit the ground.
Originally posted by jinzin
the only way logan beats creed is when he has an edge like admantium over bone....Yet Wolverine has beaten Creed before he ever had adamantium or claws during his spy days. And he later obliterated an enhanced adamantium Creed when he himself had no metal bones. And he has beaten Creed when both had the metal.
Originally posted by jinzin
when they're on a level playing field.. it's more often then not sabretooth's game all the way baby..
Which is false since Sabretooth usually makes sure the playing field isn't fair and Wolverine still manages to win the majority of the time anyway.
Originally posted by jinzin
and common sense would indicate that when sabrertooth's boasting about all the times he's beaten logan in the past and logan doesn't say anything to dispute it, that he's probably not lying.It was pointless boasting which made no sense anyway as Wolverine has left Creed for dead just as many times. Wolverine's response was spot on. "If I'm still alive obviously yer doin something wrong."

Soljer
Wow.

Go riceroost.

spidey-dude
sab

capt it up
Not to mention in new x-men Logan states the creed is lucky there in the hell fire club or he would kill him on the spot and sabertooth did not have any thing to say to it and wolverine seemed very confident in his statment

Badabing
Originally posted by riceroost
Go back and read Wolverine # 10 again. Sabretooth does slash his claws across Wolverine's chest. So yer wrong.
If Sabretooth came out of the water directly behind Logan and blinsided him I sincerely doubt Wolverine knew where he was. Pretty obvious. Creed used the water to hide his scent.
Are these the same senses that are better than Spider-Man and Daredevil combined? The senses where Logan can hear, see and smell people from miles but are trumped by good old H2O? blink Seems it's more of Creed's skills than fooling Logan's senses. wink
Originally posted by riceroost

That's bull$hit and you know it. Wolverine had Sabretooth pinned and helpless before he left so Wolverine technically won that fight. Two he had to get the Morlock healer back to the X-Mansion which is stated in that very same issue. He didn't run from anything he had more important things to do. Three Wolverine was in very bad shape for that fight. During the entire Massacre he is still hurting from his fight with Deathstrike. You should know that.
Is this the same healing factor that instantly heals Logan from anything but a nuke? You all can't have it both ways. You can't say that explosions and class 100 punches won't effect Logan but then say he lost because of previously healed wounds from earlier fights.
Originally posted by riceroost

That's more crap. Powerpack didn't help Logan fight creed during the massacre issue, they merely pass by Wolverine on his way to fight creed if my memory serves. And the only other time that fight happens in power pack it happened like last year in a kids book which is not in continuity. I'm also reasonably sure that fight was nowhere near coming close to completion. Power Pack just intervened without Wolverine needing or wanting their help. The fact is that Logan still was helped.

Originally posted by riceroost

True, but both were knocked at the completion of the fight thanks to Wolverine tackling Creed over a cliff. Creed just woke up first. That was also Wolverine's first ever loss and it was before he aquired any fighting skill in his own words. Ah, now Logan didn't know how to fight yet.roll eyes (sarcastic)

Originally posted by riceroost
No one won that fight. That fight got stopped by the Shiver Man. Creed had just been upgraded by Weapon X AGAIN with speed, strength, and durability enhancements. Wolverine is also recovering from his ordeal in the Cell, his confrontation with Mauvis, and being shot hundreds of times by Weapon X soldiers. All Wolverine says is he doesn't know if he can take Creed this time. He never says he is beaten. The fact that Creed was getting the better of Logan shows who was winning. Is a Wolverine fan actually complaining about another character getting upgrades?!eek! laughing

Originally posted by riceroost
??? What are you talking about? We wont know who wins this time till Part 6. So far they are dead even with Wolverine landing most of the hits and showing far more skill. The only thing Creed did that was noteworthy was ripping Logan's spine out of the back of his neck and Wolverine recovered from that instantly. He didn't even hit the ground.
Yet Wolverine has beaten Creed before he ever had adamantium or claws during his spy days. And he later obliterated an enhanced adamantium Creed when he himself had no metal bones. And he has beaten Creed when both had the metal. All Creed did was tear out Logan's spine but he healed instantly. Hm, it seems you were calling foul earlier in your post about Logan being "in very bad shape for that fight" and "he is still hurting from his fight with Deathstrike". Sounds a bit contradictory to me.
Originally posted by riceroost

Which is false since Sabretooth usually makes sure the playing field isn't fair and Wolverine still manages to win the majority of the time anyway.
It was pointless boasting which made no sense anyway as Wolverine has left Creed for dead just as many times. Wolverine's response was spot on. "If I'm still alive obviously yer doin something wrong." Fair playing field?! Logan's senses, speed and agility should keep anybody from ambushing him. Creed playing smart does not take away from his success against Logan. It seems to me Logan is saying "You beat me and left me for dead time and time again".

Originally posted by capt it up
Not to mention in new x-men Logan states the creed is lucky there in the hell fire club or he would kill him on the spot and sabertooth did not have any thing to say to it and wolverine seemed very confident in his statment Hardly proof Capt. Logan saying something and seeming confident about his statement won't convince many.

jinzin
Originally posted by Badabing
Are these the same senses that are better than Spider-Man and Daredevil combined? The senses where Logan can hear, see and smell people from miles but are trumped by good old H2O? blink Seems it's more of Creed's skills than fooling Logan's senses. wink

Is this the same healing factor that instantly heals Logan from anything but a nuke? You all can't have it both ways. You can't say that explosions and class 100 punches won't effect Logan but then say he lost because of previously healed wounds from earlier fights.
The fact is that Logan still was helped.

Ah, now Logan didn't know how to fight yet.roll eyes (sarcastic)

The fact that Creed was getting the better of Logan shows who was winning. Is a Wolverine fan actually complaining about another character getting upgrades?!eek! laughing

All Creed did was tear out Logan's spine but he healed instantly. Hm, it seems you were calling foul earlier in your post about Logan being "in very bad shape for that fight" and "he is still hurting from his fight with Deathstrike". Sounds a bit contradictory to me.
Fair playing field?! Logan's senses, speed and agility should keep anybody from ambushing him. Creed playing smart does not take away from his success against Logan. It seems to me Logan is saying "You beat me and left me for dead time and time again".

Hardly proof Capt. Logan saying something and seeming confident about his statement won't convince many.

pretty much what he said....


without getting into this entirely circular debate I'm going to say this:

wolverine fas beaten creed quite a few times,

but rarely in straight up fights, and rarely on panal.. it's ammusing that you want to argue in favor or wolverine being hurt or injured before a fight but neglect when sabretooth is, it's interesting how you want to make up excuses for wolverine but similar excuses don't apply to sabretooth.. hmmmm

in their first fight, wolverine may not have had much skill... but honestly did sabretooth? maybe a bit, but their team x training hadn't even started yet. and forget skill.. at least logan had a damned healing factor..
which is ammusing yet again that you brought up shadow society as proof, which is yet another pre-marauder's instance.. another instance of sabretooth without a respectable healing factor.
and I need to re-read issue 10? no my friend.. i believe that would be you that needs to.. sabretooth NOT ONCE uses his claws in that fight.. not one..single.. time... the only time he even threatens to use them is after logan's already been beaten. And another thing, you can't even conclusively proof that sabretooth was even KOed in the at fight as the next time we see them, sabretooth while groggy is still concious.. wolverine on the other hand? not so much.

As for wolverine 145, yes you are actually right about most of those points, I didn't remember the issue clearly, but upon further review they did continue fighting after the standoff, still the "win" for wolverine remains incredibly ambiguous, wolverine doesn't look to be ducking creed's strike he looks like he's taking it, which if true means creed had logan dead to rights until he... unexplainably drove his claws into the ground... ? what the hell was that?
In any event creed lost to three factors in that fight that logan doesn't have guaranteed going for him in this one. creed was overconfident, creed nonsensically drove his claws into the ground, and creed was taking his admantium skeleton for granted.

In regards to the morlock tunnels, I'm pretty sure power pack attacked sabretooth, so I consider that helping. In regards to the fight, I'm not sure what you're talking about, sabretooth seemed to defnitely have the upper hand there, hell he even admits that in spite of being able to have killed him in his primary strike he wanted to have some fun first.. erm

wolverine 90: it isn't alluded to that wolverine's holding anything back during the fight, except his claws, and since we're so concerned with previous pains i guess it makes no never mind that sabretooth put himself through that force feild barrier TWICE that night huh? or the fact that even though sabretooth did get labotomized it was LITERALLY while he was ASKING logan to do it...?
wolverine 126: the only upgrade he had was his skeleton. And he completely worked logan, like a child... pretty much proves that the adamantium gives logan a huge advantage in their previous fights.
wolverine 166: you act like wolverine was the only one who was previously fighting in that issue.. except for the fact that creed just finished handing maverick his ass to him, and had taken huge amounts of punishment through that fight...

wolverine saying "i don't know if I can take him, and the kicker is, he knows it too"..
wolverine being lifted helplessly into the air, and having his back kracked along creed's leg...
trippled with the fact that wolverine got his ass SAVED by shiver man, kinda alludes to the fact that he was losing that fight.. badly.

classic x-men 10, wovlerine was ready for a fight, wolverine was prepped for a fight and sabretooth was toying with him the whole night before that anyway.... when it came down to it wolveirne didn't have the cunning that sabes did and got nailed.. wasn't a striaght up fight sure, but it does prove sabretooth's superiority in different ways to be sure.

In "that same time period" you refer too. all we ever see is wolveirne take off sabretooth's ear.. that's it.. everything else happens off panal, on both occasions...erm
If off panal wins count then.... erm

and again issue 50: wolverine's clearly losing the fight, sabretooth again has his ass dead to rights the only reason wolverine's on his feet as you put it is because creed literally lets him go... no expression

all that said,
sabretooth:
classic vs. wolverine: wolverine.
murauders vs. wolverine: toss up.
x-force vs. wolverine: slight edge to sabretooth.
Adamntium vs. wolverine: large edge to sabes.
weapon x vs. wolverine: sabes by a landslide.

capt it up

Badabing

capt it up
Originally posted by Badabing
No, I agreed with Jinzin and just highlighted that fact. The only hypocritical part is you picking out my post when Jinzin has done far more damage to you and Rice in this thread. erm

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/5083/sabes70ll.gif
http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/2916/sabes89jb.gif
http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/3074/sabes91fh.gif
http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/4605/sabes104wp.gif

Logan is getting abused in this fight. He had one panel where he does anything and gets owned in the rest. wink
The other reason I posted in this thread was to point out and make fun of you for the post above.
laughing laughing laughing

first off I never even debated jinzin you just assume I am backing wolverine up. How am I being a hypocrit by picking out your post when your directly quoted me?



second I posted that remark about enw x-men to show that just becuase some one says some thing does not make it true and since every one seems to think jsut becuase creed says he won every time does nto make it true when wolverine has said similar things.


third off why would you post in a thread to make fun of me? That seems rather lame and a little childish and you missed the whole point of why I even posted the remark.

capt it up
also you know your scanns above if I am not mistaken dident logan just regain his healing factor and was far from 100%? Not that it really matter since Logans done the same thing to sabertooth ecpt it took less time in
X-Men Issue 161: Logna defeats Creed in 5 pannels

Badabing
Originally posted by capt it up
How am I being a hypocrit by picking out your post when your directly quoted me? I explained this already. I agreed with Jinzin and just highlighted that fact. You disagreed with me and by proxy Jinzin. roll eyes (sarcastic)


Originally posted by capt it up

third off why would you post in a thread to make fun of me? That seems rather lame and a little childish and you missed the whole point of why I even posted the remark. No, I got the point and it was moot. Characters say things all the time and it never brings light to the outcome of a battle. wink Now I'm lame and childish. messed I joke with everybody and it's usually returned in kind as a friendly jest without the name calling. I guess I had you wrong, you're really quite emotional. erm No worries, I won't make fun of you again. This is a serious place where friendly ribs and humor are not welcome. no expression

capt it up
Originally posted by Badabing
I explained this already. I agreed with Jinzin and just highlighted that fact. You disagreed with me and by proxy Jinzin. roll eyes (sarcastic)


No, I got the point and it was moot. Characters say things all the time and it never brings light to the outcome of a battle. wink Now I'm lame and childish. messed I joke with everybody and it's usually returned in kind as a friendly jest without the name calling. I guess I had you wrong, you're really quite emotional. erm No worries, I won't make fun of you again. This is a serious place where friendly ribs and humor are not welcome. no expression



I actaully never disagreed with you as of yet I have not stated my opinion



I was kidding lol I just wanted to see if I could turn the tables on you. you know better then to take me serous even when i sound it lol. I am never overly serous or get offened.............unless you kill my sisters cat then were at war......................whisper " because I want the pleasure of doing it my self, I hate the dam thing"...................."runs a way and takes badings pen" stick out tongue

Badabing
Originally posted by capt it up
"runs a way and takes badings pen" stick out tongue
Take my pen! It's on now!
http://scopi.ytmnd.com/

shifty

capt it up
Originally posted by Badabing
Take my pen! It's on now!
http://scopi.ytmnd.com/

shifty

Dam you I will have my revenge............................" goes and kills ultimate thing"..................hahaha you have nothing left now you must suffer, because as every one already knows 616 thing sucks stick out tongue

capt it up
YA I WENT THERE


















"hides in corner" "They can't see me"

Badabing
Originally posted by capt it up
Dam you I will have my revenge............................" goes and kills ultimate thing"..................hahaha you have nothing left now you must suffer, because as every one already knows 616 thing sucks stick out tongue I have other allies.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/wolverineowned.jpg
eek! laughing

capt it up
Originally posted by Badabing
I have other allies.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/wolverineowned.jpg
eek! laughing
dam you but every one knows PIP>>>>>thor

but of course deer>>>>PIP>>>>>thor

jinzin
if I post a pic of my spidey boxers can we all just hug and make up here..?
confused

capt it up
Originally posted by jinzin
if I post a pic of my spidey boxers can we all just hug and make up here..?
confused

hmmmm interesting...............fine I will agree only if we see these so called spidey boxers because as you all know they give spidersense which makes you untouchable

Badabing
laughing love

riceroost
Originally posted by Badabing
Are these the same senses that are better than Spider-Man and Daredevil combined? The senses where Logan can hear, see and smell people from miles but are trumped by good old H2O? blink Seems it's more of Creed's skills than fooling Logan's senses.God you are a retard. Pointing out how much of a dumbass you are tires me out more than wrestling practice used to.

1) WTF, who said Wolverine's senses were better than both Spidey and DD? Sure as shit wasn't me. I have only ever said that Wolverine's sense of smell was better than DD's was you great doofus.

2) Yeah one of the easiest ways to make an animal lose your scent is to take to water. How the hell do you not know that???

3)It's Creed knowing the limitations of a sense of smell and taking advantage of them and ambushing someone from BEHIND.
Originally posted by Badabing
Is this the same healing factor that instantly heals Logan from anything but a nuke? You all can't have it both ways. You can't say that explosions and class 100 punches won't effect Logan but then say he lost because of previously healed wounds from earlier fights.Your stupidity knows no boundaries. I love re-explaining shit to you over and over.

1) This was early Wolverine HF which was SIGNIFICANTLY weaker than current (I heal from skeleton) HF.

2) I can have it both ways because his HF has gotten exponentially stronger as time goes on you bafoon.

3) Wolverine didn't lose the Morlock tunnel fight dumbass. He entered that fight with his original HF which was much weaker than today's HF, he had just gone through a fight with the other Marauders (injuring himself further, and he is STATED to be very weak because of the fight he had just had with Deathstrike. Read a comic moron, instead od commenting on shit you are obviously ignorant of.
Originally posted by Badabing
The fact is that Logan still was helped.No, he was not helped. In Power Pack # 27 Wolverine isn't even fighting Sabretooth.
And in the other comic Power Pack jumped Sabretooth without Wolverine asking them to or needing them to. It's also not in continuity so it's not open to debate.
Originally posted by Badabing
Ah, now Logan didn't know how to fight yet.It is stated in the comic you ass. Wolverine admits he was a fighter that won using brawling tactics. "I fought with no real skill back in those days." At this point Wolverine probably had less fighting SKILL than Sabretooth. Today it is the opposite. Wolverine has an advantage over Creed in fighting skill.
Originally posted by Badabing
The fact that Creed was getting the better of Logan shows who was winning.Having an advantage in a fight does not mean you have it won. Lots of people have had advantages against Wolverine. That in no way means he was beaten in those fights. Wolverine is constantly portrayed as the underdog. He takes a beating and then gets pissed and wipes his ass with chumps like Thing.
Originally posted by Badabing
Is a Wolverine fan actually complaining about another character getting upgrades?Why wouldn't I? Sabretooth has had upgrades. Weapon X gave him upgrades. Wolverine has never been upgraded save for adamantium. His only upgrades are a healing factor that gets progressively stronger. Wolverine didn't know Creed had been upgraded and was obviously suprised at the changes, which is why Creed gained the advantage.
Originally posted by Badabing
All Creed did was tear out Logan's spine but he healed instantly. Hm, it seems you were calling foul earlier in your post about Logan being "in very bad shape for that fight" and "he is still hurting from his fight with Deathstrike". Sounds a bit contradictory to me?What the hell are you babbling about? Wolverine had just fought Deathstrike back during Uncanny # 212-213 and was weak and still stalemated Creed. In Wolverine # 50 he hasn't just got done fighting anyone. Creed ripped his spine out and Logan heals instantly. WTF are you on? Those 2 fights have nothing in common.
Originally posted by Badabing
Fair playing field?! Logan's senses, speed and agility should keep anybody from ambushing him. Creed playing smart does not take away from his success against Logan.Deeeeeeeeer, Creed has Logan's enhanced senses and he is faster and more agile. Having the senses he knows how to exploit them (losing his scent by hiding in the water/attacking from downwind) and because he is that fast he is good at attacking Logan from behind before he knows what's going on (which he does most of their fights.) If a UFC match starts off with one guy railing some unsuspecting dude in the back of the head while he's talking to his manager before the fight that is obviously one guy taking unfair advantage of another.
Originally posted by Badabing
It seems to me Logan is saying "You beat me and left me for dead time and time again".How is that any different from all the times Logan has beaten Creed and left him for dead? It's not.
Originally posted by Badabing
Hardly proof Capt. Logan saying something and seeming confident about his statement won't convince many. Then why didn't Creed do something about it when Wolverine blatantly challenged him? Creed doesn't give a shit if he gets banned from a strip club. He backed down because he obviously didn't think he'd beat him.

riceroost
Originally posted by jinzin
wolverine fas beaten creed quite a few timesYes he has. Many times he beats Creed far quicker and much worse than Creed beats him.
Originally posted by jinzin
but rarely in straight up fights, and rarely on panal. Wolverine rarely ever has any advantage over Creed in fights. Usually it is either a straight up fight or Creed ambushes him. And You are the one saying Creed has all the off panel victories, so why would you change your story to Wolverine usually wins of panel? Their fight records are basically EVEN.
Originally posted by jinzin
it's ammusing that you want to argue in favor or wolverine being hurt or injured before a fight but neglect when sabretooth is,
Please deny that Wolverine was hurt during the Massacre fights. PLEASE! You know (or at least you really should) that Wolverine was VERY weak during those fights. Rogue and Colossus make a point of saying in # 211 that "there's something very wrong with Wolverine. He has recovered from worse injuries far quicker than he is now." Badly injured and still healing as he was he then went up against the marauders where he was impaled by harpoon, and then beat Creed and then stalemated him after that in a very long fight. Injured Wolverine proved equal to a healthy Sabretooth. There have been very few occassions I can remember that Sabretooth was ever injured before a fight with Wolverine and non of them were ever nearly as bad as what Wolverine was dealing with. Wolverine has been in terrible shape 3 times in his life:

1) After Deathstrike.
2) After the Reavers.
3) After skeleton rip.
Originally posted by jinzin
in their first fight, wolverine may not have had much skill... but honestly did sabretooth? maybe a bit, but their team x training hadn't even started yet. and forget skill.. at least logan had a damned healing factor.Sabretooth would have had more experience than Wolverine at that time, he was faster, stronger, he had claws, and he did have a healing factor. Wolverine # 10 was written by Chris Claremont in 1989. In Uncanny # 213 ( written 3 years earlier in 1986 also by Claremont) Claremont gave Creed a retcon healing factor. So Creed would have had it in that fight. Claremont wouldn't have botched continuity again. That is rediculous.
Originally posted by jinzin
which is ammusing yet again that you brought up shadow society as proof, which is yet another pre-marauder's instance.. another instance of sabretooth without a respectable healing factor.
Oh stop BSing me. That comic was written in the 1990's and by then Sabretooth had a respectable healing factor no matter when the story takes place. Unless you think the writer would purposely draw attention to the fact that Sabretooth's power/continuity is messed up. You think they retconned a retcon for one issue simply because it took place before the Power Man/Spidey crap?!? Again that is rediculous. Really seems like you're grasping at straws.
Originally posted by jinzin
and I need to re-read issue 10? no my friend.. i believe that would be you that needs to.. sabretooth NOT ONCE uses his claws in that fight.. not one..single.. time....Ah hem,

On page 6 of the story Sabretooth slashes at Wolverine's chest. In the present Wolverine grabs his chest (right where Creed hit him) and mentions that the memory hurts worse than the original wounds. I sincerely doubt Creed used the tips of his fingers to create a wound on Wolverine's chest that he'd remember 50 years later. Creed obviously has claws in that fight and his open hand flail at Wolverine's chest caused a bad wound. A wound that could have only been made if he'd used claws. The fact that it's not a very detailed picture means nothing.
Originally posted by jinzin
As for wolverine 145, yes you are actually right about most of those points, I didn't remember the issue clearly, but upon further review they did continue fighting after the standoff, still the "win" for wolverine remains incredibly ambiguous, wolverine doesn't look to be ducking creed's strike he looks like he's taking it, There is no sound effect, blood splatter, or any physically noticeable contact in the "whiff" swing from Creed. I see no reason why you would think he hit him.
Originally posted by jinzin
unexplainably drove his claws into the ground... ? what the hell was that?Only 3 thoughts come to mind.

1) Creed was swinging down from a height at crouching Logan and when he dodged Creed's claws sunk into the floor.

2) The "floor panel" takes place after Wolverine impales Creed and he grabs the floor in an attempt to keep Wolverine from lifting him above his head.

3) You are grasping at straws in an attempt to take a legitimate curbstomp victory away from Logan.
Originally posted by jinzin
In any event creed lost to three factors in that fight that logan doesn't have guaranteed going for him in this one. creed was overconfident, creed nonsensically drove his claws into the ground, and creed was taking his admantium skeleton for granted.

1) Creed's overconfidence is never apparant or given as a reason for his loss.
2) Creed drove his claws into the ground either because he whiffed a downward strike or because he was trying to keep from behing lifted and evicerated.
3) Creed never took the skeleton for granted. Wolverine merely pointed out the obvious fact that a metal skeleton does not cover your intestines. Creed should know this. Wolverine never came across as invulnerable in their past fights when he had the metal. You make Creed sound like a moron, which you obviously know isn't true. Wolverine merely went for one of the few strikes that wouldn't get his claws broken from hitting an adamantium bone.
Originally posted by jinzin
In regards to the morlock tunnels, I'm pretty sure power pack attacked sabretooth, so I consider that helping. In regards to the fight, I'm not sure what you're talking about,Wolverine was not even there when Power Pack fought Sabretooth so how the hell could they be helping him? I just read the comic again. They pin him under a collapsed cieling for a moment and run away in fear while he shakes his fist at them in anger. Wolverine runs past them later looking all messed up (from his fight with the other marauders) and then you hear Sabretooth roar and someone screams. (probably when he grabbed the Morlock healer) Wolverine runs off in the direction of the scream. No helping.
Originally posted by jinzin
sabretooth seemed to defnitely have the upper hand there, hell he even admits that in spite of being able to have killed him in his primary strike he wanted to have some fun first,Yeah, only problem his primary strike was a CHEAP SHOT. If Wolverine was the one hiding he could have easily done the same. Wolverine then uses his head to incapacitate Creed.
Originally posted by jinzin
wolverine 90: it isn't alluded to that wolverine's holding anything back during the fight, except his claws. Wolverine not using his claws against Creed is not doing his best to put him down and thus in my mind is obviously holding back. He seemed to be fighting to contain, not fighting to win. Not using claws = holding back. Considering Creed's strength and speed advantages and the fact that he was using his claws Wolverine was fighting evenly with Creed under handicap until he got punched in the balls. After that he is still obviously holding back as he refuses to use his claws on Creed again and stands there, letting Creed slash him without defending himself. That is certaily a whole lot stranger than your whole (Creed's claws hit the ground?) argument. Wolverine didn't get serious until Creed started threatening people. Then we saw how quickly the tables turned.

riceroost
Originally posted by jinzin
and since we're so concerned with previous pains i guess it makes no never mind that sabretooth put himself through that force feild barrier TWICE that night huh? Other than singed and smoking hair Creed did not seem to be in much pain at all. He broke through a forcefield built to stop a charging elephant, not kill a charging elephant. He even says it felt almost as good as the glow. And the glow wasn't exactly a painful thing. It cured him of his homicidal urges, it didn't hurt him.
Originally posted by jinzin
or the fact that even though sabretooth did get labotomized it was LITERALLY while he was ASKING logan to do it...?
Wolverine could have popped the claw through his head whenever he wanted. Again he was holding back. Instead of hitting Creed again after he smashed his head into the wall he sits there and argues with him instead. That fight ended when Wolverine launched Creed into the wall. Wolverine never hit him after that (even though he had a huge opening) and Creed never tried to get away or fight back because either he was too hurt to or he knew Wolverine wan't going to hit him again.
Originally posted by jinzin
wolverine 126: the only upgrade he had was his skeleton. And he completely worked logan, like a child... pretty much proves that the adamantium gives logan a huge advantage in their previous fights.No Creed's healing factor was also obviously boosted. When Wolverine had the metal (which weakened his HF) he still had a stronger HF than an uninhibited Creed. So obviously Wolverine's healing power is stronger in general at baseline. Then Wolverine (who's HF had just increased) took on adamantium Creed and his HF was faster than increased uninhibited Wolverine's HF. Creed unaugmented with adamantium should have had an even weaker HF than original metal wolvy, but instead his HF was faster than Wolverine's true (no metal compensation)healing rate. This is impossible unless he was augmented. It's not stated, but it's obvious it was pumped up.
Originally posted by jinzin
wolverine 166: you act like wolverine was the only one who was previously fighting in that issue.. except for the fact that creed just finished handing maverick his ass to him, and had taken huge amounts of punishment through that fight...Creed was getting shot at by one gun. Wolverine was getting shot at by a small army of guys with guns. Wolverine was taking more damage. Maverick aint all that either. He admitted back in the day that he stood no chance against Wolverine in a fair fight. Same should hold true for Creed, especially a boosted and adamantium Creed. Wolverine is also recovering from adamantium poisoning, and Mauvais' attack in prison. Missing eye as well. Creed was in better shape. He had dealt with less.
Originally posted by jinzin
wolverine saying "i don't know if I can take him, and the kicker is, he knows it too"..So Creed knew that Wolverine wasn't sure if he could win??? What the hell does that prove? Mentally they are still unsure of who will win.
Originally posted by jinzin
wolverine being lifted helplessly into the air, and having his back kracked along creed's leg...
How is that any different than Wolverine impaling Creed up above his head and then slamming him into the ground in rapid succession earlier in the fight?
Originally posted by jinzin
trippled with the fact that wolverine got his ass SAVED by shiver man, kinda alludes to the fact that he was losing that fight.. badly.Shiver Man took over the fight. Nowhere does it say, "Man he just saved my ass." Wolverine was getting hit yes, but he was not beaten. Wolverine had to help Beast who was injured. Apparantly saving an injured friend from the clutches of Weapon X was more important than figuring out who really would have won.
Originally posted by jinzin
In "that same time period" you refer too. all we ever see is wolveirne take off sabretooth's ear.. that's it.. everything else happens off panal, Wolverine delivered the last blow we saw and Sabretooth is all bandaged up later. I personally think the fight was interupted by Havok exploding with Wolverine in the advantage, but it still portrayed Wolverine easily hanging with post Weapon X powerup/metal Creed. Creed may have momentary advantages in # 126 and #166, but it's due to suprise upgrades both times. When Wolverine is ready for what Creed has he seems to be able to beat him. He just has to adjust to Creed's new upgrades.
Originally posted by jinzin
on both occasionsWe know Creed was done the second time. He ripped him to pieces. Yes Creed was still healing from Northstar's attack, but as powerful as Creed's HF was at this point he was probably not hurting very badly. Getting ripped so badly your pieces cant even be seen lying around is a horrible ass-kicking, far worse and more brutal than any beating Creed's ever given Wolverine.
Originally posted by jinzin
If off panal wins count thenYeah, but I can prove Wolverine won above off panel fight because the results of theat fight are stated on panel. All of W and S yearly off panel fights have no info, no winner, and no details.

and again issue 50: wolverine's clearly losing the fight, sabretooth again has his ass dead to rights the only reason wolverine's on his feet as you put it is because creed literally lets him go.How is Wolverine losing the fight? He is beating the crab out of Creed. Fight ends in a double KO anyway.
Originally posted by jinzin
all that said,
sabretooth:
classic vs. wolverine: wolverine.By a landslide.
obviously if yer talking no HF. Does not include post 1986 flashback fights.
Originally posted by jinzin
murauders vs. wolverine: toss up.No way. Wolverine takes this. Just look at the fights:

1) skill/smarts victory via cieling collapse. Creed helpless. (Wolvy weak)
2) stalemating and Creed runs. (Wolvy weak)
3) powerless and still gets a one shot victory.
4) one shot victory again.
5) then there are a lot of stalemates that always get interupted.
Originally posted by jinzin
x-force vs. wolverine: slight edge to sabretooth.Never fought in this era to my knowledge. This is still Marauder Creed to me. He's no different. No deabting points. Still Wolverine.
Originally posted by jinzin
Adamntium vs. wolverine: large edge to sabes.
Only via suprise in initial fight. Rematch was stomp victory for Logan. Even or slight edge still to Wolverine because of skill.
Originally posted by jinzin
weapon x vs. wolverine: sabes by a landslide.
Slight edge to Creed only in initial fight due to upgrades. Once Wolverine is healthy and aware of upgrades he gets hard earned stalemate.

Badabing
Sorry to break this up but I had a question with Wolverine #50. Were those true memories he was having?

Redatom65
i'm not even getting Lion-o

Metalmanx
Sabretooth.

capt it up
though rice was kinda and ass whole about it he is right about the issue 90. Logan held back the whole fight till sabertooth pissed him off.

riceroost
Originally posted by jinzin
It's been stated in multiple X-men books that sabretooth beat wolverine every single time they met til wolverine joined the x-men.
Originally posted by jinzin
sabretooth left logan for dead in their first fight. Actually now Wolverine is stated as having been the victor of the very first fight between the two. The fight in Canada was revenge for an earlier defeat Sabretooth took from Wolverine in Japan many years before:

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/5551/creedlogan1ajx2.jpg
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/5205/creedlogan1buw9.jpg

jinzin
Originally posted by riceroost
Actually now Wolverine is stated as having been the victor of the very first fight between the two. The fight in Canada was revenge for an earlier defeat Sabretooth took from Wolverine in Japan many years before:

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/5551/creedlogan1ajx2.jpg
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/5205/creedlogan1buw9.jpg
huray for retcons...
well considering I'm a wolverine fan you're not telling me anything I didn't already know...

good thing sabretooth didn't have a blade.. roll eyes (sarcastic)


Yeah i know.. he probably wouldn't know how to use it anyway.

jasonk3
Jinzin, Roost or Cap...you guys wouldn't happen to have any scans of Wolverine punking Storm ...would you? Thanks

jinzin
punking? no.. the best I got is wolverine clawing his way through everything storm can muster in her hurricane winds before she finally decides to give up and see what happens..

King_Mungi
Originally posted by jinzin
huray for retcons...

Did they retcon Sabertooth having adamintium in #52? I'm still confused on that. confused

I was under the impression he still had it.

jinzin
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Did they retcon Sabertooth having adamintium in #52? I'm still confused on that. confused

I was under the impression he still had it.

my guess is that during HOM when wanda was switching up powers and histories and whatnot that while the histories weren't canon the power switches stuck...
this is why wolverine's brain isn't healed over like it was before.. I mean unless he can "unheal" then he shouldn't be able to remember squat but he does...

the only other explanation is that the "CHILDREN" took it out of creed and that partially explains his fear of them and why his healing factor was reduced by 90% when he found sancuary at the x-mansion..

but those are only theories.

King_Mungi
Originally posted by jinzin
my guess is that during HOM when wanda was switching up powers and histories and whatnot that while the histories weren't canon the power switches stuck...
this is why wolverine's brain isn't healed over like it was before.. I mean unless he can "unheal" then he shouldn't be able to remember squat but he does...

the only other explanation is that the "CHILDREN" took it out of creed and that partially explains his fear of them and why his healing factor was reduced by 90% when he found sancuary at the x-mansion..

but those are only theories.

Yeah I mentioned in a few other threads that House of M retcon may have been possible considering the Black Panther and Sabertooth fight.

Indeed since it was his healing factor that was responsible for his memory losss.

Very well could have, I like the explanation. Hopefully we get some insight soon.

jinzin
seriously.. i hate when marvel just.. forgets about their own continuity..

does creed have admantium? does he not?
it's like it changes every year without reason..

same thing with silver samurai.. he was supposed to be dead and all the sudden he shows up in origins and endings? WTF? What the f**k?

YFZ 350
I don't know if this has been dealt with yet. But in their first fight it was stated that Creed was faster and stronger of the two. Stronger I can see but faster?

WorldWarHulk
Originally posted by jinzin
punking? no.. the best I got is wolverine clawing his way through everything storm can muster in her hurricane winds before she finally decides to give up and see what happens.. Scans?
Pretty please?

jinzin
yeah like I told jason I gotta do it this weekend cause I won't be seeing my comx collection till then.

riceroost
Originally posted by jinzin
huray for retcons...I kinda always assumed Hama's work with Silver Fox retconned the whole Canada fight into non-existance anyway and later writers just ignored it since the fight from # 10 was so well known.

But yeah, retcons usually suck, this one more so than most. But according to the new history Wolverine lupine has been kicking the crap out of Sabretooth lupine for eons it seems.
Originally posted by jinzin
good thing sabretooth didn't have a blade.. roll eyes (sarcastic)I thought it was fair. Wolverine didn't have his claws metal or bone and opted for a pigsticker instead. And we all know even Wolverine's bone claws >>>>>> conventional swords.
Originally posted by jinzin
Yeah i know.. he probably wouldn't know how to use it anyway. You know I dont believe I have ever seen Sabretooth use a sword, katana or otherwise. That's something to look into. I dont doubt a level 6 fighting talent couldn't, but certainly not as well as Wolverine can. Would have just fouled Creed's style up. He's better served using claws IMO.
Originally posted by jasonk3
Jinzin, Roost or Cap...you guys wouldn't happen to have any scans of Wolverine punking Storm ...would you? Thanks Punking... maybe. Can't really remember right off the top of my head. Storm is one of his girls and his leader as well. He's had his moments of putting her in her place, but they weren't really physical confrontations, more lectures and the like. He's tossed her around in hand to hand a few times, but obviously thats no suprise. I like the one issue during Australian period where Storm finds out Wolverine knew Jean Grey was alive and didn't tell her. She gets pissed as all hell and threatens him with the full fury of her powers, including dropping him from a great height. Wolverine doesn't even blink. Great moment between the two. I miss stuff like that. Makes me want to go hunt down that bastard Reggie Hudlin and ninja his @$$.

Here is a little...I dont know...pissing contest between the two...? Wolverine wins it handily. This is the Wolverine I grew up reading. Great suff.

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/9628/stormspeed1by5.jpg
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/7206/stormspeed2oz0.jpg

long pig
Wolverine: "He's just like me, but faster, stronger, he takes more damage than I can and he's much more savage."

Sabretooth wins.

capt it up
that proves didly squat

jinzin
it proves that wolverine has an admitted inferiority complex in regards to sabretooth.. he showed the same damned thing in classic x-men 10..

capt it up
Originally posted by jinzin
it proves that wolverine has an admitted inferiority complex in regards to sabretooth.. he showed the same damned thing in classic x-men 10..
ya thats were long pig got the quote. That was also a long long time ago. The same does not hold true now nor has it been stated in the last 5 years or more.


Just becuase some one states something does not mean it remains fact for ever. To base your whole arguement off one thing is just not enough. That statement does not prove sabertooth wins it jsut simply a statement. Hell riceroost has a similar statement such as that, but it in wolverine favor. Statements are simply bad evdience to use and even worse when there from over 10 years a go lol

jinzin
why would they need to keep restating it?

and it does hold true a majority of the time.

Actually my belief that sabretooth is logan's superior stems from the fact that sabretooth boasts it, logan's admitted it, files depict it, and on panal sabretooth has had more wins and superior showings than the other way around.
no expression

you said the statement proves nothing.. you're wrong as it does prove what I just F'n said.. NO ONE said they were basing their entire argument off of one statement.. it was just a point. no expression

spidey-dude
sab is above wolvies level.

srankmissingnin
Sabretooth is Wolverine's Venom. Everything Wolverine is, Sabretooth is too... only more so. Its not even up for debate. Wolverine holds his own because of his tenacity, never say die attitude and plot devices. They aren't equals and Wolverine isn't superior.

jinzin
I tend to think wolverine holds his own due to skill and sabretooth's affinity for bloodlust mode as well.....

but yeah..

capt it up
Originally posted by jinzin
why would they need to keep restating it?

and it does hold true a majority of the time.

Actually my belief that sabretooth is logan's superior stems from the fact that sabretooth boasts it, logan's admitted it, files depict it, and on panal sabretooth has had more wins and superior showings than the other way around.
no expression

you said the statement proves nothing.. you're wrong as it does prove what I just F'n said.. NO ONE said they were basing their entire argument off of one statement.. it was just a point. no expression
actaully long pig was though. MY arguement was at him not you.


Logan does not admit any thing a lot of times he tell sabertooth he will kill him.

no sabertooth does not have more wins if I am not mistaken there about 50/50 for wins so far.

jinzin
Originally posted by capt it up
actaully long pig was though. MY arguement was at him not you.


Logan does not admit any thing a lot of times he tell sabertooth he will kill him.

no sabertooth does not have more wins if I am not mistaken there about 50/50 for wins so far.

All he did was type in a quote.. he didn't say that it's the pillar of his argument either.. no one did.

And he tries and he fails.... and he thinks inferior things bout himself vs. sabes when he does.

no.. sabes has more.. even if it is only by one or two.. he has a majority of superior showings on panal.

capt it up
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Sabretooth is Wolverine's Venom. Everything Wolverine is, Sabretooth is too... only more so. Its not even up for debate. Wolverine holds his own because of his tenacity, never say die attitude and plot devices. They aren't equals and Wolverine isn't superior.
I want to argue this so badly, but if I do a lot of other debates will get ****ed such as the sabertooth vs spiderman debate and you guys dam well know what I mean by that.

capt it up
Originally posted by jinzin
All he did was type in a quote.. he didn't say that it's the pillar of his argument either.. no one did.

And he tries and he fails.... and he thinks inferior things bout himself vs. sabes when he does.

no.. sabes has more.. even if it is only by one or two.. he has a majority of superior showings on panal.
he fails? really last I check logan has kciked the shit out of sabertooth many times.

please prove sabertooth has more wins because I am almost 100% positive that he does not.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by jinzin
I tend to think wolverine holds his own due to skill and sabretooth's affinity for bloodlust mode as well.....

but yeah..

Honestly, IMO Wolverine holds his own because Sabretooth isn't really trying to kill him. Sabretooth has ulterior motives concerning Wolverine and more often then not he just likes messing with Wolverine's head. Who's seen Sabretooth go balls out in a fight? He is usually just messing around. He is constantly toying with Wolverine in fights, its like he doesn't even take Logan seriously.

capt it up
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Honestly, IMO Wolverine holds his own because Sabretooth isn't really trying to kill him. Sabretooth has ulterior motives concerning Wolverine and more often then not he just likes messing with Wolverine's head. Who's seen Sabretooth go balls out in a fight? He is usually just messing around.
he has stated numerous tiems that he is trying to kill wolverine.

sabertooth is not holding back he simply trying to kill wolverine he does not care he enjoys it.

capt it up
funny thing is I never said wolverine would win I was just argueing certain things in peoples arguements

batdude123
Sabes 6/10.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by capt it up
he has stated numerous tiems that he is trying to kill wolverine.

sabertooth is not holding back he simply trying to kill wolverine he does not care he enjoys it.

He also stated that he was Wolverine's father and apparently spent years pretending to be a imbecile. They guy is a sly bastard.

And really just how often has Sabretooth said he was going to kill Wolverine? Or even that he was trying to kill Wolverine? He has said that no one but him will kill Wolverine... but he seems more concerned with torturing Wolverine and messing with his head then with actually killing him.

There relationship is like Denzel Washington character in the movie Fallen and the Fallen Angel serial killer; it could have killed him any time... but that was no fun so it decided to ruin his life and **** with him.

jinzin
Originally posted by capt it up
he fails? really last I check logan has kciked the shit out of sabertooth many times.

please prove sabertooth has more wins because I am almost 100% positive that he does not.

Not a majority of the time...

well he does.
sabretooth win record:
pwned logan in wolverine 10
pwned logan in classic x-men 10
had a superior showing in uncanny 212
had logan dead to rights in wolverine 42 teech at logan's jugular
had logan beat in wolverine 46
was pwning logan in hand to hand in wolverine 91
curbed logan in wolverine 126
beat logan in wolverine 166
dropped logan in wolverine vol II 19
proved himself superior to logan in wolverine vol II 50
proved himself superior again at the end of 50 continued into 51.

jinzin
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He also stated that he was Wolverine's father and apparently spent years pretending to be a imbecile. They guy is a sly bastard.

And really just how often has Sabretooth said he was going to kill Wolverine? Or even that he was trying to kill Wolverine? He has said that no one but him will kill Wolverine... but he seems more concerned with torturing Wolverine and messing with his head then with actually killing him.

There relationship is like Denzel Washington character in the movie Fallen and the Fallen Angel serial killer; it could have killed him any time... but that was no fun so it decided to ruin his life and **** with him.

co-signed...

and speaking of balls out sabretooth....

yeah.. hmmmm


he was getting there in uncanny when he dropped psylocke.. but even then it was stated later that he wasn't going for the kill on bets..
sabretooth in the red zone he was pretty furious and he's got the feats to prove it.

other than that.. nothing really comes to mind.

maybe AOA when he fought holocaust.

spidey-dude
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Sabretooth is Wolverine's Venom. Everything Wolverine is, Sabretooth is too... only more so. Its not even up for debate. Wolverine holds his own because of his tenacity, never say die attitude and plot devices. They aren't equals and Wolverine isn't superior. they both have a healing factor and good fighting abilities. but sab is faster stronger and heals faster as well.

jinzin
plus he's hella more durable.. just look at wolverine vol II 51...

wolverine comes out of the plane wreck a damn near walking skeleton.. all that happened to sabretooth was his hair getting burnt off. erm

Soljer
Yeah, Sabretooth wins. And he's usually toying with Wolverine, as stated.

How many times have we seen Sabretooth knock wolverine out, only to have Wolverine wake up later going "Shit..."

If Sabretooth had wanted to, he could have just killed him while he was out. no expression.

riceroost
Originally posted by jinzin
Not a majority of the time...well he does. No he does not. Your entire argument is that Sabretooth has more OFF PANEL victories. On panel Wolverine obviously has more victories.
Originally posted by jinzin
pwned logan in wolverine 10True, but Wolverine pwned Creed in their first ever fight.
Originally posted by jinzin
pwned logan in classic x-men 10Via sneak attack.
Originally posted by jinzin
had a superior showing in uncanny 212 Oh, that fight where Wolverine had Creed pinned and helpless by the end of the fight? Please.
Originally posted by jinzin
had logan dead to rights in wolverine 42 teech at logan's jugularOh yeah, via sneak attack AGAIN, while Wolverine was falling out of a helicopter and carrying on a conversation with Elsie Dee while not even engaged in a fight. Creed didn't do jack shit in that issue to prove any supposed "superiority." I suppose Wolverine proved his "superiority" when he cut off Creed's hand while the guy was fighting Black Panther? That seems fair to me.
Originally posted by jinzin
had logan beat in wolverine 46Are you high? Wolverine had just got done fighting a HANDICAP fight against Tooth and Lady D. Creed had 1 hand around Wolverine's neck and you call that a win? Bullshit. Not a fiar fight, therefor no winner. Even if it was acceptable Creed has no win. Fight is interupted.
Originally posted by jinzin
was pwning logan in hand to hand in wolverine 91You mean # 90. And was only pwning because Wolverine was holding back in the fight as we have gone over before. Wolverine won that fight.
Originally posted by jinzin
curbed logan in wolverine 126Due to suprise power-up # 1.
Originally posted by jinzin
beat logan in wolverine 166Creed hadn't beaten anyone as we have already gone over. He had an advantage in the fight due to suprise power-up # 2
Originally posted by jinzin
dropped logan in wolverine vol II 19True.
Originally posted by jinzin
proved himself superior to logan in wolverine vol II 50No such thing happened. Wolverine landed more hits than Creed. Fight ends in double KO. Draw.
Originally posted by jinzin
proved himself superior again at the end of 50 continued into 51. 50 was a draw with a double KO. In 51 Wolverine has big advantage over Creed while fighting in the jet. Creed was helpless until the plane crashed, freeing him from Wolverine's strangle hold. On the ground they were locked in stalemate until Storm breaks up the fight.

Sorry to say this since I usually hold a lot of respect for your opinion, but you are being blatantly untruthful a lot in this thread.

jinzin
Originally posted by riceroost
No he does not. Your entire argument is that Sabretooth has more OFF PANEL victories. On panel Wolverine obviously has more victories.
No.. PART of my reasoning for why I think sabretooth is logan's superior is based in the fact that Sabretooth is stated over and over and over again to have more off panal victories than logan...


Originally posted by riceroost
True, but Wolverine pwned Creed in their first ever fight.
True but he had a weapon.

Originally posted by riceroost
Via sneak attack.
I'd call it a sneak attack if wolverie was caught completely unprepared but you have to admit sabretooth toyed with him that entire story..

Originally posted by riceroost
Oh, that fight where Wolverine had Creed pinned and helpless by the end of the fight? Please.
Creed was far from helpless.. wolverine ran away.. no expression


Originally posted by riceroost
Oh yeah, via sneak attack AGAIN, while Wolverine was falling out of a helicopter and carrying on a conversation with Elsie Dee while not even engaged in a fight. Creed didn't do jack shit in that issue to prove any supposed "superiority."
Sabretooth was semi sedated and bound in shackles.. wolverine was completely aware of sabretooth incoming by the time creed got to him.. no expression

Originally posted by riceroost
I suppose Wolverine proved his "superiority" when he cut off Creed's hand while the guy was fighting Black Panther? That seems fair to me.

No because unlike wolverine in issue 42.. sabretooth was COMPLETELY unaware..
Besides.. a hand lost is nothing compared to a jugular exposed so it doesn't even add up that way.

Originally posted by riceroost
Are you high? Wolverine had just got done fighting a HANDICAP fight against Tooth and Lady D. Creed had 1 hand around Wolverine's neck and you call that a win? Bullshit. Not a fiar fight, therefor no winner. Even if it was acceptable Creed has no win. Fight is interupted.

Pfffft.. there was BARELY a fight before the cage crashed and hunter went in to help wolverine.. HARDLY the one sided handicap you're trying to sell here... and no straight winner but sabretooth WAS WINNING.


Originally posted by riceroost
You mean # 90. And was only pwning because Wolverine was holding back in the fight as we have gone over before. Wolverine won that fight.. Wolverine popped a claw through sabes brain when sabretooth TOLD HIM TO.. because you know. sabretooth wanted it.. like he did the entire story arch of being held up in the x-mansion.. What the f**k?
the point was that sabretooth proved a CLEAR h2h superiority.. if logan had one he sure didn't show it considering the fact that sabretooth was getting more hits in. Wolverine was getting chumped...

and just because he was holding back his claws does not automatically dictate that his fighting ability would suffer.. the fight was fairly one sided and wolverine was getting the worst of it..
And this is again.. AFTER sabretooth forced himself through that force field.. and don't give me that "glow" garbage.. you and I both know that took a bit out of creed considering that he saw that wall as a WORLD o HURT.

Originally posted by riceroost
Due to suprise power-up # 1.
Cop out.

Originally posted by riceroost
Creed hadn't beaten anyone as we have already gone over. He had an advantage in the fight due to suprise power-up # 2
He's got logan on the ropes and logans admiting TO HIMSELF that he might be able to take creed.. ADVANTAGE? CREED.

Originally posted by riceroost
No such thing happened.
Uhh yes it did.. you know when you hear that "krk" noise and wolverine blacks out to their past encounter...
Wolverine only recovered from that because sabretooth let him go.. in shock to the latin comment...

Originally posted by riceroost
Wolverine landed more hits than Creed. Fight ends in double KO. Draw.
Wolverine assumes.. yet who's strapped to the blackbird?
Superior showing? sabretooth.

Originally posted by riceroost
In 51 Wolverine has big advantage over Creed while fighting in the jet. Creed was helpless until the plane crashed, freeing him from Wolverine's strangle hold.

again with this helpless nonsense.. it's like when creed is shackled by BP he must be helpless there to.... ooooor not.. roll eyes (sarcastic)
and again I suppose attacks from behind are only applicable when it's wolverine attacking... roll eyes (sarcastic)
and again! sabretooth had a superior showing of durability. simple as.

Originally posted by riceroost
Sorry to say this since I usually hold a lot of respect for your opinion, but you are being blatantly untruthful a lot in this thread.

Not at all.. I'm not being half the hypocrite that you've proven yourself to be here.. that's all.

MERCILOUS
but who has the bigger wang? not usually the type of question i ask but he who answers correctly will prove his knowledge of these two characters and his opinion will weigh more heavily.

jinzin
(*thinks about it*)


trick question....




MERC DOES.. evil face

MERCILOUS
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH true true, you are wise, however i meant it, i'm sure you know the x-men ish, where both standing next to eachother at the a urinal, you can gauge from there reactions that one is impressed with the size of the other.

Think to grant morrisons x-men, i'm sure it'll come back to you.

TheEvilHex
I'm going to have to go with THE LAST RUN on this one and give it to Wolverine 6/10. That story rocked and you cant beat Storm with a mohawk.punk

MERCILOUS
???? the most recent fight between them i remember (even though marvel promised they wouldn't any more (which was a stupid promise to make in the first place (stupid marvel))) sabes owned completley and emphatically. ripping open wolvie and telling him to [email protected]#$ off and give it up already.

riceroost
.

Badabing
Originally posted by riceroost
. I agree. durfist

riceroost
QUOTE=8871999]Originally posted by jinzin No.. PART of my reasoning for why I think sabretooth is logan's superior is based
in the fact that Sabretooth is stated over and over and over again to have more off panal victories than logan... And where was that stated? Even if it had been stated before, now it has been retconned. Wolverine does have more victories. Even the Best of Wolverine HC states in the back that Wolverine's record against
Sabretooth is 16-4. Wolverine is obviously ahead. Why would their past battles be so much different then their more recent ones? They wouldn't be. Sabretooth was WEAKER in the past. He didn't have any of his Weapon X strength, speed, durability upgrades.
Originally posted by jinzin True but he had a weapon...So what? Wolverine uses a weapon in 99 out
of 100 fights. He didn't use his claws, therefor using some other stabbing weapon like a sword doesn't give him any advantage what so ever. In fact it's a weakness as his bone claws can cut through substances a sword cant even scratch. Wolverine beat Sabretooth with an inferior weapon.
Originally posted by jinzin I'd call it a sneak attack if wolverie was caught completely unprepared but you have to admit sabretooth toyed with him that entire story.Sabretooth hit him from behind. It was a sucker punch plain and simple. Wolverine put his back to the water so Creed would have to come at him from the front, therefor he OBVIOUSLY wasn't ready for an attack from behind. If you are expecting an opponent to come through a door in front of you for a straight up fight and he stabs you from under the couch behind you you are still caught off guard. Wolverine challenged Creed to face him man to man. Creed refused to give Wolverine that fight. It was safer to take the cowards way out and hit him from behind. He didn't even win the fight, he just threw him in the water and it was over. If you call that a win I can call Wolverine cutting his hand off against Panther a win.
Originally posted by jinzin Creed was far from helpless.. wolverine ran away.He was trapped
under a collapsed tunnel. A tunnel Wolverine collapsed on him in a 1 on 1 fight. Wolverine could have walked over and stabbed him in his exposed face. Wolverine obviously did not run away. That is BS and you know it. Wolverine had to save the morlock healer. He was saving a live. Completely different.
Originally posted by jinzin Sabretooth was semi sedated and bound in shackles.. wolverine was completely
aware of sabretooth incoming by the time creed got to him.1) You dont know that Sabretooth was sedated. Wolverine suggested it to the Shield agents. There is no clear picture or wording indicating he had been injected yet.

2) Sedating people with healing factors rarely does much of anything for very long.

3) Shackles mean squat to Sabretooth.

4) Wolverine was turned away from Sabretooth, bot fighting, or even looking at him, engaged in conversation with Elsie Dee, who was about to "die." He was not paying any attention to Sabretooth.

5) Sabretooth attacks unaware Wolverine, who is still holding Elsie Dee's head. Wolverine wasn't aware of him until Creed plowed into his side.

6) This is rediculous. You argue about Spider-Man webbing up Wolverine in a non-combat situation, but Sabretooth does basically the same thing (only worse since Wolverine isn't even looking or talking to him) and you argue against Wolverine. You're the one being a massive hypocrite here.
Originally posted by jinzin No because unlike wolverine in issue 42.. sabretooth was COMPLETELY unaware..And Wolverine was completely unaware in the above situation.
You cant prove at all that he knew what Sabretooth was doing. At least Sabretooth was in battle mode. Wolverine was cuddling a robot sitting on his ass.
Originally posted by jinzin Besides.. a hand lost is nothing compared to a jugular exposed so it doesn't even
add up that way.A lost hand drastically reduces Sabretooth's fighting ability and 9 times out of 10 he will lose that fight against anyone decent. Wolverine with an exposed jugular still doesn't even have an injury inflicted yet. And so what if he did bite his throat. You yourself have argued that Wolverine wasn't even fazed by have a Katana shoved completely through his throat. Just another wound that heals in a few seconds. Wolverine fights on with throat wounds all the time, which you obviously know. Again you are being a hypocrite.
Originally posted by jinzin Pfffft.. there was BARELY a fight before the cage crashed and hunter went in to
help wolverine.. HARDLY the one sided handicap you're trying to sell here... and no straight winner but sabretooth WAS WINNING.Bull Shit. Wolverine KOed WENDIGO in 4 panels. Creed and Lady D hammer on Logan for 4 pages straight as a team. The number of panels in a fight does not give any indication of how long a fight lasts. You are being rediculous. Wolverine was fighting Lady D and Creed in a handicap fight long enough to be injured badly enough to fall flat on his face by the time the Hunter intervened. He was badly hurt because of that 2 on 1 fight. You can't deny that. He got injured because of the handicap.

If anything the Hunter clearly proves Wolverine is Sabretooth's superior. Creed needed Lady D's help to fight 1 Hunter. Wolverine by himself (with no adamanium) killed MANY Hunters in Wolverine # 83.

I cant believe you are trying to say Creed was winning. Thats BS too. Creed had a momentary advantage on an unfairly injured Wolverine. So Creed had a hand on Logan's throat, Hulk had his whole hand around Logan's head and slammed him into the ground and Wolverine got right back up in Hulk # 340. Just because you grab someone in no way means you are winning the fight. Creed has no win here. It's a stalemate. Fight is interupted.

riceroost
Originally posted by jinzin Wolverine popped a claw through sabes brain when sabretooth TOLD HIM TO.. because
you know. sabretooth wanted it.. like he did the entire story arch of being held up in the x-mansion.It didn't matter if Sabre wanted it or not. Wolverine was in position to do the head pop anyway. Creed only asked Wolverine to do it because he was mocking Wolverine for holding back by doing the middle claw threat. Sabre most likely thought Wolverine was just going to wuss out and lock him up again.
Originally posted by jinzin the point was that sabretooth proved a CLEAR h2h superiority.. if logan had one he
sure didn't show it considering the fact that sabretooth was getting more hits in. Wolverine was getting chumped.Sabretooth and Wolverine were dead even in H2H, even though Creed WAS using his CLAWS and Wolverine was NOT. Wolverine was fighting evenly with Creed despite Creed's greater speed and strength and his use of his primary weapon. Creed only gets the advantage because of the low blow. Even after the low blow Creed only hits him 3 times and manages to send him to his knees. Then Wolverine gets right back up. It's not like he was getting overwealmed. He got kicked in the junk and Creed had a momentary advantage on a guy thats clearly holding back.
Originally posted by jinzin and just because he was holding back his claws does not automatically dictate that
his fighting ability would suffer.. the fight was fairly one sided and Wolverine was getting the worst of it.If hes not using his claws he's holding back his MAIN WEAPON. He's not trying to seriously injure Creed. Creed IS using his claws, therefor he's obviously trying to seriously injure Wolvy. Creed is not holding back. Wolverine is. It's a handicap. The fight was only one-sided because Wolverine refused to use his claws on Sabretooth, who then states he is going to kill Wolverine. Wolverine not using the claws isn't trying, it's plain and simple. If Wolverine didn't fight Spider-Man with the claws you would obviously state that he was holding back, why is this so different? Not only that, but it's Creed, who he HATES. Wolverine had to be holding back a lot not to pop on him.

Using the claws makes this a different fight entirely. Wolverine's punches can't possibly inflict as much damage as Creed's claws do on him. Wolverine's main advantage over Creed other than skill is that he can inflict heavier damage. Take that away and Wolverine is holding back against a guy that is stronger and faster. Honestly what chance does Wolverine have against Creed w/o the claws? He could hurt him, stun him, but surely not finish him off. If you fight a guy w/o a weapon in a fashion that you know wont yield a victory you are obviously holding back.

Besides all that Creed is doing his best to KILL Logan at the end of the fight and Wolverine completely turns the fight around in his favor and has Creed at his mercy, still holding back the claws. Pics dont lie. Creed got flattened.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9707/creedslam1fj6.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5177/creedslam2oo8.jpg

After Wolverine finally gets pissed all of Creed's "superiority" vanishes.
Originally posted by jinzin And this is again.. AFTER sabretooth forced himself through that force field.. and don't give me that "glow" garbage. It's not garbage when Creed blatantly compares it to the Glow (which doesn't even hurt him), only saying it's not even that effective.
Originally posted by jinzin Cop out.How the **** is that a cop out? If an opponent you know better than yourself randomly shows up with a huge upgrade it's going to suprise you and put you at a disadvantage. Wolverine thought his blows would have the same effect that they usually did, but they didn't as Creed had the metal bones and the suddenly better HF. It's like fighting a completely new opponent, one that has even more advantages than normal.
Originally posted by jinzin He's got logan on the ropes and logans admiting TO HIMSELF that he might be able to
take creed.. ADVANTAGE? CREED.Creed had no win here. He had an advantage, and Logan is undecided about who will win. That in no way means he is beat. Creed had an advantage, not a win.
Originally posted by jinzin Uhh yes it did.. you know when you hear that "krk" noise and wolverine blacks out to
their past encounter.So what if there was a noise? What does a noise prove? Nothing. Wolverine had a flashback that lasted about a milisecond. Wolverine was still standing. It's not like he was KOed and laying in the dirt while Creed giggled. He ripped out Logan's spine, Wolverine experiences his little dream state that it is established in # 48 he goes into while healing, and is still on his feet. The story is told from Logan's POV. Creed could have been momentarily blacking out after Logan's strikes. Creed's attack didn't even knock Wolverine over. Wolverine was probably still fighting while it was going on like he seems to be doing during his little rage in # 51.
Originally posted by jinzin Wolverine only recovered from that because sabretooth let him go.. in shock to the
latin comment.Did you see Creed let him go? No. We come out of the flashback and see Wolverine standing there unaffected by Creed's attack. You have no idea what happened.
Originally posted by jinzin Wolverine assumes.. yet who's strapped to the blackbird?So because he assumed it means he's wrong? He stabbed him in the head. I'm willing to assume Creed was KOed. Double KO is a draw. Wolverine assumes Creed woke up first, but he also thinks Creed had help. There is no way to know how Wolverine got tied up, or how he got to the plane, or how Creed was flying the plane. Someone could have helped him like Panther, Wild Child, or the other animals we see in # 53. I doubt Creed was the one who chained him. Creed should have known there was no way chains would hold Wolverine. He wouldn't have bothered with something that wouldn't work. Someone could have helped Creed get into the jet and set up auto pilot, while someone elsestrapped Wolverine in. Creed wakes up in the air right when Wolvy does.
Originally posted by jinzin Superior showing? sabretooth.Getting a claw shoved through your brain is not a superior showing. Creed also had the easier wound to heal. Punctures will heal faster than Wolverine's injury. Wolverine's organ was ripped out of his body. Healing cuts takes less time to heal than regenerating missing flesh. He was still KOed and that means draw.
Originally posted by jinzin again with this helpless nonsense.. it's like when creed is shackled by BP he must
be helpless there to.Creed was unable to get away from Wolverine. He was getting choked out until the impact. The impact saved him. advantage: Wolverine. Being shackled by Panther is meaningless. Creed had Panther, Logan, Storm, and Wakandan guards shackle him. Dont get what your point is. Being shackled by a group of people in anoutnumbered situation is completely different than Wolverine throttling you in a 1 on 1 fight.
Originally posted by jinzin and again I suppose attacks from behind are only applicable when it's wolverine
attacking.WTF are you babbling about? Sabretooth constantly blindsides Wolverine in non-combat, or sneak attack situations when he's distracted. Wolverine got behind Sabretooth in a 1 on 1 fight where both were actually in the process of hitting each other. Wolverine got behind Creed and throttled him because he's a better fighter.
Originally posted by jinzin and again! sabretooth had a superior showing of durability.So? We already know Creed is more durable than Wolverine. Creed got a durability up-grade from his last Weapon X stint. When you get into a wreck your injuries are not determined by who is more durable. Creed could have landed on grass and Wolverine could have landed with a burning part of the wing shoved through his gut. It all up to chance. Wolverine's injuries looked worse, but Creed still had bones in his right leg, right ribcage, and his right arm showing. You could also see through Creed's right flank, as the sky is visible where flesh is missing. By the time Storm gets there they are both similarly healed. Both of them still have muscle tissue visible on their right sides. By the last page Wolverine looks normal and Creed still has a singed scalp.
Originally posted by jinzin Not at all.. I'm not being half the hypocrite that you've proven yourself to be here.. that's all. I'm not the one contradicting my own arguments from other threads. That's you. I'm also not the one misrepresenting information. You are clearly doing that, or it's been so long since you read these comics you dont remember.

Terryc250
Wolverine got more experience, and skills, plus he'll go beserk on sabes

guy222
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/7452/xmenspiderman010011pl0.th.jpghttp://img392.imageshack.us/img392/7119/xmenspiderman017hl6.th.jpg

starlock
There is one instance when wolverine is captured by apocalypse and he makes sabertooth and wolverine fight to see who deserves to be his horseman....sabertooth has the adamantium skeleton in this fight....logan had his bone claws......this is the most telling moment between them i.m.o....it shows logan knows how to beat a regenerating adamantium laced foe....and to top it off its sabertooth.........he knows what is at stake and is serious from the get go........


I do understand all the upgrades sabertooth has had...and his relentless pursuit of logan...but i always felt wolverine was the superior...well thats just my opinon......this has always been a good debate i.m.o

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Wolverine - First Class #9

Wolverine vs. Sabretooth!

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/8978/wfc9cakedcp025hz4.th.jpghttp://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3972/wfc9cakedcp028fu5.th.jpghttp://img385.imageshack.us/img385/5409/wfc9cakedcp029rg0.th.jpg

shifty

beast1234
Sabertooth is physically superior then wolverine. It wolverine martial arts skills that allows him to go toe to toe with sabertooth.

namorsubby
i think sabretooth

srankmissingnin
I loved in Spider-man / X-Men 02, when Wolverine stabs Sabretooth straight through the stomach and Creed is just sanding there with Logan's arm protruding out through his back with a smile on his face cracking jokes.

Kris Blaze
Wolverine.......in the end.

The Real Wolvie
What a terrible depiction of Creed in Wolverine first class...he doesn't fight like himself at all...then again here we see that a controlled Logan completely punks Sabretooth and defeats him as easily as he did X-23 the first time they fought. Shitty writing to say the least but it happened...proof that Logan's MA ability is capable of punking Creed. That being said, the easy way to explain this is that everytime Creed gets his ass handed to him by Logan, he runs to Romulus who in turn gets Weapon-x to ugrage him. Seems to fit continuity to me and just shows that Creed needs constant updates to keep up to Logan

I wonder what would happen if Creed and Logan fought again after Logan's skill increase from Master Po...

occultdestroyer
Man, this has been done to death..

Time and time again, Sabretooth is far superior than Wolverine.
Sabertooth wins 7/10

Juk3n
Reen can win with majority

The Real Wolvie
Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Man, this has been done to death..

Time and time again, Sabretooth is far superior than Wolverine.
Sabertooth wins 7/10


Time and time again? hmm..what about the time Logan dispatched Creed while barely moving? Defeated him with ease in Wolverine 145? They were equals for the most part in Wolverine volumn 3 #50-55 - with Wolverine gaining the upperhand several times. Seems like every time Logan proves his superiority, Creed has to run to Romulus to get upgrades...so yeah..he's superior for awhile until Logan beats the improved version of him. Then he has to go get more improvements so he can compete again. Romulus has always made Creed "superior" probably to bring Logan to new levels each time.

psycho gundam
sabretooth for the majority, i think up to date in the comics he has far more victories since he beats the shit out of wolverine annually as a birthday present, and in their on-panel fights creed has more wins.

- what he lacks in finesse and skills, he makes up for with his killing intent.

- far stronger

- faster (last i checked)

occultdestroyer
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
Time and time again? hmm..what about the time Logan dispatched Creed while barely moving? Defeated him with ease in Wolverine 145? They were equals for the most part in Wolverine volumn 3 #50-55 - with Wolverine gaining the upperhand several times. Seems like every time Logan proves his superiority, Creed has to run to Romulus to get upgrades...so yeah..he's superior for awhile until Logan beats the improved version of him. Then he has to go get more improvements so he can compete again. Romulus has always made Creed "superior" probably to bring Logan to new levels each time.
Those wins are miniscule compared to the Sabre's victories over Wolvie.

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