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Well, what the heck! This will be my first EVER thread made in this forum. So, I'd figure...it's halloween and I got something itching in the back of my head. Which is that absurd and over hype, story less, and lame series of flicks known as the Saws.

The original Saw was not a very good film. Sure, it had some pretty nasty looking death scenes and involved a major hollywood Celeb. I also know some of you had an appeal for the film and that's fine. But if you think that Saw is to be regard as a future Hall of fame horror film. Uh-uh..it ain't and eventually people will start to realize how these series of films are nothing more than the same shit again, again and again. You seen one Saw film....you pretty much have seen them all. Same premise all over again. One looney tunes maniac set ups a bunch of traps and people either die or live....that's it!

The entire Saw franchise is not even near the realm of Exploitation films (i.e. films made to make money) it's beyond that. Never have I seen a series of 4 films made within a 5 year period. Oh, yes, four films...there will be a Saw IV in 2007...then maybe a Saw V in 2008 and then a Saw VI in 2009 and so on...it all depends on how much money both the directors and the producers can make. I'll give you the fact that in the certain horror films there is been a notable long series of sequels...but nothing really near as bad as Saw.

What really boils my DNA is the fandom behind these marketing ploy. The fans of the Saw films are the exact same people who say that movies like TCM and Cannibal Holocaust and Evil Dead are BORING and OUTDATE! Then they have the nerve to call themselves "horror fans" Anyone seen them? Trust me they do exist. Saw is nothing but mainstream horror intended for fans that think boy bands are real rock and roll music.

Yeah, big long rant..I can't help it. I could go on and go on about why Saw is nothing but crap. But why waste your time. Make your own observations and tell me if you agree or don't. Do the research and see if you can see what my eyes and brain noodles interprets...knock yourselves out.

Saw was a decent movie from two first time writers and directors.

There should never of been a Saw II.

If only Saw was made, in 20 years it would of become a cult classic, imo.

I'm a fan of the Saw movies. I find them enjoyable. They're nowhere near the "hall of fame" of horror but they're better than the rest of the crap that is coming out.

And TCM and Evil Dead are NOT boring NOR out of date.

By the way, Saw being a "money making scheme," well yeah, but I wouldn't call it a scheme. It's not like they're pulling crap out of their ass. Freddy was a "money making scheme" too. Horror movies are big bucks. Low budgets lead to big box office numbers. It helped New Line become what it is today and it'll help Lionsgate.

"Money Making Scheme?" Ah. Of course. Unlike Carpenter or Barker, for example, who, when they make movies, rub their hands together and gloat about how much money they're going to lose...?

Filmmaking is a business. All movies are "money-making schemes," including the good ones.

(I have no opinion about Saw, really ... I just think "money-making scheme" is a very odd complaint to label against a movie).

Originally posted by Gregory
"Money Making Scheme?" Ah. Of course. Unlike Carpenter or Barker, for example, who, when they make movies, rub their hands together and gloat about how much money they're going to lose...?

Filmmaking is a business. All movies are "money-making schemes," including the good ones.

(I have no opinion about Saw, really ... I just think "money-making scheme" is a very odd complaint to label against a movie).

I agree wholehearedly. Movies are made with the intent of bringing in absurd amounts of money. Why would they spend so much money on a movie, sometimes 100-200 million if they did not intend to make them in "money-making schemes"? Now every once in awhile you get a film like Saw that was made on a very low budget. If I remember it didn't even hit the $500,000 to make. Anyway, I think the 1st Saw made some very good points. The people that were put into the "deathtraps" were meant to find meaning in their lives, which they did not have before. And if they lived then they walked away with a more profound sense of their life... or not. I still like the whole "he's not really killer, he basically sets up ways in order for the people to kill themselves. However some of the traps in the first seemed rather ridiculous in finding a way out alive, such as the cage of razor wire and the guy covered in a flammable liquid carrying a candle around. But in all of them there was a way out, but the whole of idea of death really puts a lot of stress on a person and they are not able to think clearly as someone observing them. I liked Saw I, Saw II was nothing more than a house full of traps which were easy to figure ways out of, if not rushed into. In fact they could have figured out the first one easily if they would have all stopped and worked together. However it really shows how the human works, he fears imminent death and wishes to relieve himself of it immediately, but Jigsaw's whole deal was ... "How much blood are willing to shed to save your life?" They're really twisted and I enjoyed them! However I have not see 3 yet so I can't judge the entire series right now.

I'm sorry WrathfulDwarf, but that just made very little sense. You as a mod ought to be less narrow-minded and more careful in stereotyping or insulting people that like something that you just might not appreciate.
The Saw movies (I have yet to see part 3) aren't perfect, but they offer a welcome change in atmosphere and storytelling compared to most of the other movies that pretend to be horror as of late. They might not be a match for the real classics, but to label them as crap as swift and as unfounded as you did is unjustified. Seems you are reviewing the hype around them more than the movies themselves.
I like good, true horror, and still I appreciated saw 1&2. But, so now in your view I am somebody that dislikes TCM and Evil Dead and so neglecting the real classics? I love those movies and all alike it, I just happen to like Saw as well.
Even worse, you suppose I'm some new age punk that doesn't knows Rock n Roll just because of your theory?
Don't mean to sound angry nor offencive, but please display a little more wisdom and respect in the future, ok?

The first Saw is shit, poor acting, lazy lazy writing and a twist that served no purpose other than "being cool". The second Saw was a ways better, the twist was really stupid but at least it progressed the story for the future of the series and actually was pretty decent as a whole.

Haven't bothered with the third one, will wait for it to go to DVD or the local two dollar theater.

And if you read WD's post he didn't say that all Saw fans are wannabe horror fans who can't appreciate the important films of the genre, merely that there ARE these types of fans, and he's right, there are.

Perhaps you are right, but he still should have chosen his words more wisely.

His words were fine, that many Saw fans are psuedo horror movie fans that can't appreciate the true masterpieces of the genre.

He made it seem like everybody who likes the Saw movies has a lack of taste and knowledge, and that's what stung me. He didn't acknowledge any middle-routes. or the bare fact that someone might just like these movies among better ones. Doesn't matter, I said what I wanted to say.

Saw 1 had it's pros as well as its cons. I admire Saw because it was an original script with an interesting style. It braved new territory and explored new ground with a new kind of psychopath. I dislike Saw, personally, because it had weak acting, predictable outcomes, and mediocre twists. Saw 2 was nothing more than regurgitated dreck, and Saw 3................well, I'm not even going to waste the effort to type it out. WD, IMO, is spot on about the eventuality of Saw 4, 5, 6, and on and on and on..............all of which will suck balls.

Originally posted by BackFire
And if you read WD's post he didn't say that all Saw fans are wannabe horror fans who can't appreciate the important films of the genre, merely that there ARE these types of fans, and he's right, there are.
There are. Check out the Saw message board. They call the original TCM boring while they praise shit like Hostel and Wolf Creek.

And I believe that we were correct with what WD was trying to say. Maybe he can clarify but I keep reading it over and am getting the same message.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
The fans of the Saw films are the exact same people who say that movies like TCM and Cannibal Holocaust and Evil Dead are BORING and OUTDATE! Then they have the nerve to call themselves "horror fans" Anyone seen them? Trust me they do exist. Saw is nothing but mainstream horror intended for fans that think boy bands are real rock and roll music.
I'm a Saw fan, so in turn I should think TCM and Evil Dead are boring.

And OT, but are boy bands considered rock and roll? I always thought they were in the pop genre.

Thats a pretty lame outlook just cause some people on a forum say that "gasp" saw is better and TCM etc are lame who cares we are all not suppose to like the same shit personally I think alot of that lets kill live animals on screen make a movie about canniblas with some of the worst actors ever and make it a gross out movie with no plot, twist anything with a budget of 1,500 dollars but hey we mangled real animals on screen and we all know that makes a great horror movie to butcher defensless animals is complete and utter shit and not worth my time but hey thats me.

TCM, evil dead, Wickerman etc. are great Horror films but we could all pick them apart all movies could be pick apart yeah are they taking advatage of a film and milking yes but it still good acting the death scenes are good and they will continue to roll in the dough thats what making movies is about money strike while the iron is hot. Let people like what they want does it honestly bother you that people dont like the same shit that you do or see things the way you do by the way who made you the authority on whose a horror fan and whose not by the way all horror movies are basically the same shit over and over for crying out loud how many friday the 13 are there 10 or some shit like that and that was the same shit over and over I guess all the people that like them are idiots to right not hardcore enough cause they didnt have scene where they butcherd real animals like a turtle or cut open a monkey.

I can understand what you r saying to a point you love exploitation movies thats your thing hang out with or talk to people that think like you and when saw 4 and 5 comeout dont watch them..

Most of the people i know who rate the Saw movies have questionable taste in movies and are usually thick.
Put it this way one of them thought The Blair Witch Project was real,whilst the others rate Steven Segal pics.
The horror fans i know can take em or leave em.
Myself i havent bothered...............as im a Horror snob.

I read today that a couple of people have fainted in seperate cinemas in the UK watching Saw3...maybe its just hype.

Yeah I read about that lol:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6101704.stm

I enjoyed the Saw films so far, have yet to see the third. The films are not masterpieces, but like some have said, the films are a lot better than a lot of the horror crap coming out.

Ooo and I adore the films like Evil Dead and Massacre too... except the other you mentioned, Holocaust.

Saw three way good. Though it kinda went too crazy with the whole twist thing, I felt they came along pretty when with producing suspense on the part of the female doctor. It was a good little trick to draw the audience in.

I hated the first Saw so much I didn't bother to see the 2 or 3...Thank God I didn't spend my own money to see the first one...I'm just not a fan...that's all I have to say...I'm not ripping on anyone elses tastes...Just don't like Saw.

One of the best horror series of all time, its so genious.

Maybe I shoulda wrote "certain" fans not all fans to avoid confusion. Anywhoo...my point still stands. As I said before I know some of you KMCers like the Saw flicks and is perfectly fine. I'm not criticizing you guys directly. I've known you regular horror forum posters for awhile and I seen your posts in this forum before. Most of you do have a good appreciation for the classics and it's great you acknowledge those classic films.

However, there still that group which really consider the Saw films to be as "true horror" I know this because I happen to know someone very well who thinks that Evil Dead is not as good as Saw. Which I find utterly absurd. Most of his claims are these:

"The Saw films are AWESOME because it has very good special effects. The music is very tense...the movie revolves around the idea of human survival...blah, blah,blah...."

When I hear such comments I nearly laugh. As far as I know ALL horror films are about human survival. Oh wow! what a great case to make for Saw. Then when they ask me which films I consider to be true horror. I mention films like the original TCM or my personal favorite Hellraiser. They laugh and see me as some kind of stupid dumbass. Their typical response:

"I DON'T THINK THAT GUY WITH THE CHAINSAW AND THE GUY WITH NAILS IN HIS FACE IS SCARY...LOLOLOLZLZOLZ"

Different tastes for different people..I'd guess.

"BUT SOME OLD MAN WHO CAN BARELY WALK AND SOME SKINNY EX DRUG ADDICT CHICK IS TERRIFYING!!"

Me- "Jigsaw is a poor man's Jon Doe".

Them - "Who's that? Is that a character in Hostel?"

I've fallen asleep during every entry of the Saw franchise. They're mindless, tasteless, an absolute bore really.

The Evil Dead>TCM>Hostel>Wolf Creek>Saw>Saw II>Saw III

i have school tomorrow and no time to look through the last posts, so ill make this short and sweet.

a) what series isnt a money making scheme? People need to realize that everything is about money. Everything.

b) I hate when people say things such as "they have the nerve to call themselves horror fans". (I've never seen cannibal holocaust or the other movie, so what im about to say is circumstacial)(does that word fit here?) : I think that anyone who says that saw is bad and cannibal holocaust is good isnt a real horror fan. they can't be because I am better tan them, thus I can dub what is and isn't horror fan material

c) The twists in saw arepretty good. (i like it bc, to some extent, the things in the movie are possible, like i said to some extent.) Movies like this,(i think) are better than killer and zombie movies bc they are believable, and even if they arent possible, they are delivered as such. So ya, i'm off to bed, math test tomorrow....shit...i didnt study, wish me luck

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Maybe I shoulda wrote "certain" fans not all fans to avoid confusion. Anywhoo...my point still stands. As I said before I know some of you KMCers like the Saw flicks and is perfectly fine. I'm not criticizing you guys directly. I've known you regular horror forum posters for awhile and I seen your posts in this forum before. Most of you do have a good appreciation for the classics and it's great you acknowledge those classic films.

However, there still that group which really consider the Saw films to be as "true horror" I know this because I happen to know someone very well who thinks that Evil Dead is not as good as Saw. Which I find utterly absurd. Most of his claims are these:

"The Saw films are AWESOME because it has very good special effects. The music is very tense...the movie revolves around the idea of human survival...blah, blah,blah...."

When I hear such comments I nearly laugh. As far as I know ALL horror films are about human survival. Oh wow! what a great case to make for Saw. Then when they ask me which films I consider to be true horror. I mention films like the original TCM or my personal favorite Hellraiser. They laugh and see me as some kind of stupid dumbass. Their typical response:

"I DON'T THINK THAT GUY WITH THE CHAINSAW AND THE GUY WITH NAILS IN HIS FACE IS SCARY...LOLOLOLZLZOLZ"

Different tastes for different people..I'd guess.
Hellraiser is my personal favorite too.

Yeah, those fans annoy me. As far as the 21st century goes, we have High Tension, 28 Days Later, and Saw, for the most part. But in the entire span of horror, Saw isn't in the top 500.

I'm glad you cleared that up and that you don't think of me as a wannabe horror fan because I happen to enjoy this series.

And I really enjoy the music in the movies, particularly the song they put at the end of each of them. The effects are nice too, nothing extraordinary, but nice.

Originally posted by BackFire
"BUT SOME OLD MAN WHO CAN BARELY WALK AND SOME SKINNY EX DRUG ADDICT CHICK IS TERRIFYING!!"

Me- "Jigsaw is a poor man's Jon Doe".

Them - "Who's that? Is that a character in Hostel?"
Wow. That had me laughing so hard. Is that a real case, BF?

I dunno, it was just a parody of how ignorant some Saw fans are about the genre they supposedly love.

Yyyyeah. Just echoing the sentiment that horror movie franchises are, and always have been, pretty generic an derivative because it WORKS. The original had a prettyfresh premise, and the second evolved the whole scheme and threw some curveballs. IF there is anything past 3, THAT'S when you'll see the exact same thing over and over a la NOES, Halloween, F13, etc.

OMG you guys are too funny.

Originally posted by Wolfie
I'm a fan of the Saw movies. I find them enjoyable. They're nowhere near the "hall of fame" of horror but they're better than the rest of the crap that is coming out.


^ Says it all.

Saw was a classic, it was awesome, good psych. thriller. Saw 2 was ok, some of the acting and writing was a let down, but the twists made up for it. Havent seen 3 yet, but the trailer looks more promising than Saw 2.

Theres something that keeps me away from SAW
im a long time horror fan...i was buying Fangoria in 87 blah blah...zzz and im going to the cinema this weekend but ill plump for Borat over Saw3.
The majority of dicks i know who rate the Saw pics know nothing of Horror and have put me off.

saw is for gay people. and i hate gay people.

Im not a fan of the saw series. I was on the fence with the first i didnt love it but i didnt think it was anything special. The 2nd one sucked i hated it and i grew very bored during the 3rd. Those films were over hyped alittle imo.

Originally posted by LaHaine
saw is for gay people. and i hate gay people.


your should strive to express yourself a little less cryptic