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An all out fight between two great Jedi Masters of the Clone Wars era. this will take place in the Death Star hangar bay. (don't ask; it's just a cool place) Anything goes.

Plo Koon

Does the fact that Yoda stated Ki-Adi-Mundi as the only Jedi with the skills to defeat Sharaad Hett mean anything? If so, and if Ki-Adi-Mundi truly was as good as Yoda seemed to think he was, than I'd say Ki-Adi-Mundi.

Originally posted by MEDVOCK
Does the fact that Yoda stated Ki-Adi-Mundi as the only Jedi with the skills to defeat Sharaad Hett mean anything? If so, and if Ki-Adi-Mundi truly was as good as Yoda seemed to think he was, than I'd say Ki-Adi-Mundi.

Source?

I think Yoda meant that because Ki-Adi trained Hett. Obi-Wan would have a better chance of defeating Anakin than most others because he knew Anakin's fighting style very well.

Plo Koon seemed more of a martial Jedi than Mundi, who was well reknowned for his wisdom.

NVM, I just started reading Outlander. However, I'm pretty sure Yoda was just flattering him, the real reason they needed him to go was because Ki was the only person on the council who never actually knew him personally, and so there would be no emotional ties there if he needed to kill him. And I doubt he would have the skills to defeat Sharad Hett as a jedi in his prime, this guys seems petty powerful based on what is said about him in the comic, one of the most powerful jedi warriors in fact.

Originally posted by Council#13
I think Yoda meant that because Ki-Adi trained Hett. Obi-Wan would have a better chance of defeating Anakin than most others because he knew Anakin's fighting style very well.

Plo Koon seemed more of a martial Jedi than Mundi, who was well reknowned for his wisdom.

Actually Ki-Adi had never met him up to that point, he trained his son, A'Sharad Hett.

Oh.... did the writers have to make their names so similar?!

Plo wins comfortably.

You kno I've just been reading Outlander and Ki-Adi is much more impressive than I originally thought. Still, Plo most likely takes this.

Originally posted by Dessel
NVM, I just started reading Outlander. However, I'm pretty sure Yoda was just flattering him, the real reason they needed him to go was because Ki was the only person on the council who never actually knew him personally, and so there would be no emotional ties there if he needed to kill him. And I doubt he would have the skills to defeat Sharad Hett as a jedi in his prime, this guys seems petty powerful based on what is said about him in the comic, one of the most powerful jedi warriors in fact.

Wait... You're saying Yoda just said that to flatter him? He even states, "the truth only, I speak" in response to Ki-Adi-Mundi saying "you flatter me, Master Yoda". And Yoda would know a lot about Ki's potential, considering it was HE who trained him.

I doubt very much Yoda was saying anything but the truth, or what he honestly believed -- just like everything he says.

Now, could someone please tell me what makes Plo better than Ki? (besides his force powers?)

But how could it be the truth Medvock, when we know that Yoda, Mace and probably a few others were more powerful than Ki-Adi-Mundi. That fact alone proves that the statement was false, Yoda was most probably flattering him, unless you want to argue that Yoda honestly believed Mundi to be better than himself and Mace. No it's pretty obvious that the main reason Yoda picked Ki-Adi was because he was the only council member to have never known him.

I think you mean "ever", not "never", but whatever

Nope, never.

Okay

Originally posted by Dessel
But how could it be the truth Medvock, when we know that Yoda, Mace and probably a few others were more powerful than Ki-Adi-Mundi. That fact alone proves that the statement was false, Yoda was most probably flattering him, unless you want to argue that Yoda honestly believed Mundi to be better than himself and Mace. No it's pretty obvious that the main reason Yoda picked Ki-Adi was because he was the only council member to have never known him.

So because of this we conclude that the statement has no meaning whatsoever? No. Yoda himself stated what he said was the truth. You can not just say he was "flattering him" when it is even mentioned by Yoda that he WAS TELLING THE TRUTH.

I would not say that quote makes Ki-Adi above Mace or Yoda but I do believe it puts him VERY closely behind. Above Plo Koon at least.

NOW, because you seem to be in Plo Koon's favor, CAN YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE HELL MAKES HIM BETTER THAN KI-ADI-MUNDI???

Ki-Adi-Mundi was very wise and strong in the Force and a skilled swordsman, but I don't think he was exactly the best swordsman ever. I would put Koon above him, personally. Koon was the warrior type.

I dont know who would win personally but I think some of your logic is a bit one sided. Saying that Plo Koon is the 'warrior type' means nothing. Yoda is renowned for his wisdom and not famous for his fighting abilites (much like Mundi) even though he is the greatest swordsman in the order. Yoda even compliments Mundi on his abilities, and directly states that it is the truth. I dont see how you can argue that.

Exactly

I do wish to note that I don't debate in here. As the moderator, I just put in my few cents, and then ban you for disagreeing. ermm

...well, not really. In any case, Ki-Adi-Mundi has the higher Council seat.

A seat on the Council doesn't exactly mean you're a great warrior. Look at Coleman Trebor.

Well credit must be given to the statement, but no as much as you seem to think.



Yoda was clearly not being 100% truthful, whatever reason doesn't matter, it's clear unless you really want to argue that Yoda honestly believed Ki-Adi-Mundi to be more powerful than himself and Mace Windu.



The statement is clearly not 100% correct, therefor you can't solely use it to place Ki-Adi on any power hierarchy whatsoever; I mean who are you to dictate who was included in that statement and who wasn't.



Well Plo has a lot going for him.

He was a member of a jedi dynasty (much like Ulic Quel-Droma), noted to be strong in the force. His arsenal of force powers that he can use in a battle is incredible - electric judgement, altering the temperature, freezing liquid into ice, conjuring and manipulating dust particles etc. He also wore talons over his fingertips to augment his control over the force. KI only has access to the basic powers of a jedi.

He was also able to telepathically contact his niece, Sha Koon from halfway across the galaxy during the Stark Hyperspace War, pretty incredible when you consider the distance. During the Yinchorri Uprising, he was able to manipulate huge dust particles and create illusions out of these dust particles (to confuse his enemies) as well as mask his party's presence with them. When a huge crowd of about 30 protesters entered the jedi temple to cause havoc, Plo was able to mind control all of them at once to leave the temple. He has also displayed such mastery, and sensitivity to the force by using TK to lift heavy boulders without even looking at them, and without the need to guide them with his hands.

He is also considered as one of the more martial jedi of the order, a huge fan of 'aggressive negotiations' whereas Ki is known as more of a diplomat. Plo was also the hero of the Stark Hyperspace War, and kicked a lot of ass in the battle. He was stated to be the best practitioner of Shien that Jinn had ever seen, Maul respected him as a warrior above the likes of Anoon Bondara (the chief lightsaber instructor before TPM, he was stated by his padawan to be the best pure swordsman she had ever seen, and Obi-Wan also views him on par with the like of Qui-Gon and Mace in that regard) and on par with the likes of Mace Windu. He was also factually stated to be a master of Teras Kasi.

Mundi has lots of things going against him too, being pwned by Grievous, being pwned by clones whereas Plo was undefeated in personal combat as far as we know. Mundi was also stated to have impaired coordination, which would certainly hinder his dueling abilities.

Now don't get me wrong, Mundi is petty powerful, however Plo has more going for him, and therefor wins by default.

Originally posted by Captain REX

...well, not really. In any case, Ki-Adi-Mundi has the higher Council seat.

Anakin didn't even have a council seat, and he was the chosen one.

Actually he did.

Originally posted by Dessel
Actually he did.

Oh, yeah. I meant to say that he wasn't a master. Oops.

Originally posted by Dessel
He is also considered as one of the more martial jedi of the order, a huge fan of 'aggressive negotiations' whereas Ki is known as more of a diplomat.

And what point are you making? Yoda is not known for his martial abilities or duelling strength. He is well known and well respected for his wisdom, yet he would still kick anyones ass in a duel. So whatever point you were trying to make fails.



What? So if Obi-Wan states that Plo Koon is on par with Mace then that can be seen as a large factor in this debate (at least you are making it out to be or you wouldnt have posted it). Yet when Yoda says that Ki-Adi is the only jedi who can defeat Sharad Hett you pass it off as if it is nothing. Double standards anyone?



Lol, that means absolutley nothing. You conveniently seem to forget that Mundi was exhausted, and GG had the element of suprise. Im quite sure that if Plo had been put in the same situation he would have lost also.



If I recall, Ki-Adi actually put up a fight and even managed to pick off some of the squadron of troopers who attacked him. Plo Koon was easily shot out of the sky by one of the two fighters behind him. I highlight the numbers so that you understand that Ki-Adi had more people to have to kill to stay alive.



Lol. Plo wins by default you say. That must be the biggest load of bullsh*t ive heard. I could say that Count Dooku has 50+ years more fighting experience than ROTS Anakin so he will win by default. Doesnt work like that im afraid.

Although I really dont know who will win in the fight. I would like to say Mundi because he is one of my fav characters, but Plo has alot going for him. It wont be close by any means methinks, and personally I think some of your logic is a bit off.

Yoda is an exception, the point doesn't fail. Logic dictates that a more martial jedi would favour combat and dedicate himself to combat over a diplomatic jedi, I'm not saying that this fact alone gives Koon the win, just that credit needs to be given to it.



I'm not saying it's a large factor, just making as many valid points for Koon as I can.



Wrong!! The statement about Mundi can be proven to be factually incorrect, whereas the one about Maul goes. And if you didn't notice, I did say that credit has to be given to the one about Mundi as well, just that Medvock couldn't dictate who was included in the statement and who was not to suit his argument.



Mundi got pwned badly, it goes against him. I doubt Plo would put up as pathetic an attempt at taking him, I mean Mundi couldn't even accurately force push him lol.



Logical fallacy. Ki was in a situation that tested his personal combat abilities, Plo wasn't.



Well that's what usually happens when nothing can be proven, but one combatant has more going for him than the other.



Strawman argument. How about you learn how to debate before unsuccessfully attempting to point out flaws in my logic.



How about you successfully point out one illogical thing in my entire post, because your post is full of fallacies.

Originally posted by Dessel
Yoda is an exception, the point doesn't fail. Logic dictates that a more martial jedi would favour combat and dedicate himself to combat over a diplomatic jedi, I'm not saying that this fact alone gives Koon the win, just that credit needs to be given to it.

Why the hell is Yoda an exception? Who makes him an exception - oh wait, im guessing its you and your false logic. Because one is known for his wisdom, does not dictate that he is a bad fighter. But whatever, I just dont see how this point proves in anyway that Plo id the better fighter.



I presume you mean Mace, not Maul. We all know that Plo Koon is not as good as Mace windu. So the comment would be 'factually incorrect' as you like to put it. So again, the statement in no way means that Plo is better. Unless you want to accept that Ki-Adi was in fact the only jedi who could face off against Sharad Hett.



What 'you doubt' and what would actually happen are two different things. Plo Koon would not beat Greivous. Certainly not CW GG and certainly not when he was as fatigued as Mundi was. Use a bit of commen sense please.



Mundi was outnumbered about 8 to 1. He was in the middle of the battlefield and trusted the clones to do as they were told. He was then caught by suprise and shot down - but did manage to take several with him. I dont see how this could possibly count against him. Besides, fighting clones and fighting another force user and two different things. Point moot.



Strawman argument? Lol, I was providing an example on how your faulty logic doesnt work. But whatever, I really dont care about this debate. Keep arguing those points if you wish, but I personally dont see how they make Plo better.

If it counts for anything, in the SW minis game Plo Koon costs more than Ki-Adi-Mundi

Nope, doesn't count!

You always misconstrue people's arguments? Logic dictates that people who dedicate themselves to combat and personal power would in most cases be more powerful than those who dedicate themselves to diplomacy. Yoda is the exception because of how undedicated he is to personal power, yet he was still the most powerful person in his era. How are you not getting this point yet? Martial jedi would logically be more powerful than diplomatic jedi, no matter how many exceptions there are, it can still be used in a debate. Just because Yoda was known for his wisdom moreso than his power, the point remains, to deny it displays a clear misunderstanding.



I meant Plo actually.



TPM Mace? Care to prove it? And the statement doesn't actually state that he's as strong as Mace, just in his league which is most probably correct given the time period.



It's a point in his favour you idiot, I didn't say it automatically puts him above Mundi.



No, this is incorrect, the other one isn't.



You clearly don't understand debate. When nothing can be proven, and you have to put as many points as possible in the favour of each argument, whatever argument has more going for it wins by default. Now Mundi losing to Grievous badly, and attempting to force push him, but missing, coupled with Plo being unbeaten as far as we know, and the possibility that he wouldn't do as badly against Grievous (this is where doubt on my part becomes valid) leans the argument in Plo's favour. Remember, opinions can be used in debates to a degree.



Why not? His electric judgement would certainly help, probably hold him off well enough for another jedi to defeat him, and that's if it doesn't in fact kill him.



1. Mundi wasn't caught by surprise.
2. Many jedi did much better than him, there was certainly room for improvement on Mundi's part.
3. How can you not see that the fact that Plo remains unbeaten in personal combat as far as we know whereas Mundi has been beaten in personal combat twice is a point in Koon's favour? This is how debate works when we know so little of each opponent.



Erm no. Defending against blasterfire tests how well one handles a saber, their reflexes etc., all relevant to a lightsaber duel between force users. Point unmooted.



You twisted my argument around to something it wasn't, and then made it seem like you defeated my point. That's a strawman.

Sorry mate, im not going to argue. This debate doesnt have Dooku so I dont really care. . I just think that some of you Plo supporters points are irrelevant. You are trying to say that Mundi is at a disadvantage because he got shot down by clones and that because Mundi is a diplomat his saber skills are automatically below Koons. That is pure speculation.

Plo Koon and Ki-Adi-Mundi are equal in my opinion.

Plo Koon is said to be a powerful Form V master, a superior hand-to-hand combatant, and he can manipulate his surrounding environment.

Ki-Adi-Mundi is said to have mastered Makashi (I personally think he uses Niman), he held his own against General Grievous, and he led some of the tougher campaigns (like Ossus, New Bornalex, and Mygeeto).

Ki-Adi-Mundi has experience, but Koon has power.

Mundi got pwnd by Grievous and who ever said that he mastered makashi? I though he used it but didn't know that he'd mastered it.

Seriously, Dooku's the only one who really mastered Makashi, everyone else were just half-decent chums just trying to be cool with it.

when i see the movie i think ki adi was hit from behind by the droids and thats why he died seriously i think thats how he died, he was not having a prob deflecting the attacks from the droids, i think that was the thing with the troops defeating these guys there where cought off gaurd, and the element of suprise was not with them. but anyway so what koon got hit down its not like other masters where not killed with out even suspecting, neither was he he had to turn around the troops relented they first got into shooting position. I dont know who is the stronger though.