What determines if a character is above Street Level?

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Tha C-Master
This one has been on my mind for awhile... the terminology of what is Street Level is too vague. Some would consider Spiderman street level, and others would argue he's beyond. In terms of what and who he fights he would be Street Level, but in terms of powerset he is beyond DD, Cap, Batman, etc. So I can see what both sides are getting at.

Is it the fact that they cannot fly? Or that they are fighting normal crooks and "people on the street", or what? What makes a character street level, and where would you draw the line.

Powers.
Feats.
Location.
Statistics.
Other.

endrict
anyone around human level----superhuman

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by endrict
anyone around human level----superhuman So by your definition guys like Wolverine and Spiderman are above Street Level since they have superhuman abilities? Or do you mean in terms of physical aspects, which would make Wolverine arguably Street Level?

endrict
Yes Logan is meant to be street level - above street level but stupid writers and fans make him a God.


BTW this isnt a vs thead.

Validus
Humans (Batman) to low level superhuman(Cap, peak human my ass)

Wolverine would be street level if not for the healing factor which makes him a low mid tier guy. Spider-Man would be a notch above him.

complexbrother
I agree with most of this thread . Street level is for the heroes that dosn't have and "active" powers like super strength, speed, energy blasts, and invunerability . people say that Spider-man is street level because of the location and type of criminal he usually fights, but according to the Marvel U database itself, thats not right. now a streetlevel hero can acclaim top hero status (Batman, Daredevil) but the true meaning of Street level simply means that a hero has no more actual phyical powers (notice I didn't say skill or gadjets) than the common thug, hired goon, bank robber that they fight every night. plus it don't hurt to work in an urban enviroment . allthough there are excptions for every rule.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by endrict
Yes Logan is meant to be street level - above street level but stupid writers and fans make him a God.


BTW this isnt a vs thead. shhh....

Originally posted by Validus
Humans (Batman) to low level superhuman(Cap, peak human my ass)

Wolverine would be street level if not for the healing factor which makes him a low mid tier guy. Spider-Man would be a notch above him. So any touch of "superhumaness" makes them not street level.

I take it Cyclops and Shadowcat aren't street level either?

Originally posted by complexbrother
I agree with most of this thread . Street level is for the heroes that dosn't have and "active" powers like super strength, speed, energy blasts, and invunerability . people say that Spider-man is street level because of the location and type of criminal he usually fights, but according to the Marvel U database itself, thats not right. now a streetlevel hero can acclaim top hero status (Batman, Daredevil) but the true meaning of Street level simply means that a hero has no more actual phyical powers (notice I didn't say skill or gadjets) than the common thug, hired goon, bank robber that they fight every night. plus it don't hurt to work in an urban enviroment . allthough there are excptions for every rule. I didn't know the database itself said that... nevertheless we are all in conjunctive agreement that it's the degree of physicality without anything else that makes them street level?

DigiMark007
This is always problematic.

"Street Level" is a discussion board term, not a strict definition for actual comics. So there isn't really a set level.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by complexbrother
, but according to the Marvel U database itself, thats not right. This got me here.

And nevertheless, what would set the standards of streetleveledness?

grey fox
Originally posted by Tha C-Master


I take it Cyclops and Shadowcat aren't street level either?



A guy who can vaporise a whole forest and take out multiple sentinels. Hell no.

Shadowcat may have been street when she started but not any more. Ninja skills + Heart pull FTW.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by grey fox
A guy who can vaporise a whole forest and take out multiple sentinels. Hell no. I wouldn't consider him one either, but people made it seem physical.

What about Beast? He's been upgraded, but would he be considered above Street Level?

Originally posted by grey fox
Shadowcat may have been street when she started but not any more. Ninja skills + Heart pull FTW. So her intangibility allows her to take street levelers with ease, correct?

grey fox
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I wouldn't consider him one either, but people made it seem physical.

Cyclops's main ability is his optic blasts , said blasts can level a small city or moon. That is not street level.


Originally posted by Tha C-Master
What about Beast? He's been upgraded, but would he be considered above Street Level?

Not sure . Beast is.....tricky. People aren't entirely sure whether his strength level is 25 tons or 2. The healing factor amps him up but i dont believe it's very effective. So far he just seems to be a more cat like version of Wolverine (with super intelligence)

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
So her intangibility allows her to take street levelers with ease, correct?

On KMC yes.

H. S. 6
Originally posted by DigiMark007
This is always problematic.

"Street Level" is a discussion board term, not a strict definition for actual comics. So there isn't really a set level.

Exactly.

The only way to define it would be to classify anyone who primarily operates on/near the "streets" to be a street leveller. And even that's shaky.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by grey fox
Cyclops's main ability is his optic blasts , said blasts can level a small city or moon. That is not street level. I agree, so I imagine you would place him low mid tier?




Originally posted by grey fox
Not sure . Beast is.....tricky. People aren't entirely sure whether his strength level is 25 tons or 2. The healing factor amps him up but i dont believe it's very effective. So far he just seems to be a more cat like version of Wolverine (with super intelligence) Beast is a hard one to guage because he hasn't had enough feats to show for himself.



Originally posted by grey fox
On KMC yes. Which is what matters the most, so you think that Wolverine, DD, Bats, are street level?

Or anyone Cap and below?

Originally posted by H. S. 6
Exactly.

The only way to define it would be to classify anyone who primarily operates on/near the "streets" to be a street leveller. And even that's shaky. So Spiderman/Cyclops are street level to you then?

srankmissingnin
I think the level of threats/villains a character deals regularly is what decides whether or not the are a street level and not their actual stats. For instance I considered Luck Cage a street level hero.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I think the level of threats/villains a character deals regularly is what decides whether or not the are a street level and not their actual stats. For instance I considered Luck Cage a street level hero. Ok then this is what makes Spiderman a split in the middle.

By definition of abilities he is widely considered "beyond" Street Level, but many of his classic villans are just clowns... so does he stay Street Level because Vulture still gives him trouble?

masterbruce
I personally think the most important factor is the enemies you fight regularly, because really that shows what the writers intended the character to be.

For example, batman and DD are def street level. Just look at their gallery of rogues, mostly humans who aren't necessarily even peak.

Spiderman, Wolverine and Captain America are not street levels. Wolverine often fights with superfoes like Hulk, Sabretooth, etc. Spiderman often fights venom, carnage, etc and Captain America is fighting super foes of avengers, not some human with mental issues.

so for me, its pretty clear who are street level and who isn't.

masterbruce
Originally posted by endrict
Yes Logan is meant to be street level - above street level but stupid writers and fans make him a God.


BTW this isnt a vs thead.

If writers make him a God, wouldn't that imply that he isn't meant to be a street level?

Validus
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
So any touch of "superhumaness" makes them not street level.

I take it Cyclops and Shadowcat aren't street level either?

Not any touch. Like I said, I consider Cap superhuman but he's still street level in my view. Daredevil has the radar sense but still street level. Cyclops and Shadowcat definitely aren't street level, not forum wise anyway. Shadowcat could possibly take down a top tier if she got lucky enough.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by masterbruce
I personally think the most important factor is the enemies you fight regularly, because really that shows what the writers intended the character to be.

For example, batman and DD are def street level. Just look at their gallery of rogues, mostly humans who aren't necessarily even peak.

Spiderman, Wolverine and Captain America are not street levels. Wolverine often fights with superfoes like Hulk, Sabretooth, etc. Spiderman often fights venom, carnage, etc and Captain America is fighting super foes of avengers, not some human with mental issues.

so for me, its pretty clear who are street level and who isn't. So you don't see Cap above Street level? Despite his jobber aura? What is he on the forum? Most would consider him street level here...

Originally posted by Validus
Not any touch. Like I said, I consider Cap superhuman but he's still street level in my view. Daredevil has the radar sense but still street level. Cyclops and Shadowcat definitely aren't street level, not forum wise anyway. Shadowcat could possibly take down a top tier if she got lucky enough. What areas are Cap superhuman in.

masterbruce
I DO see Cap as being ABOVE street level

Validus
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
What areas are Cap superhuman in.
I'm thinking back to time he claimed he could run a mile in a little over a minute.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by masterbruce
I personally think the most important factor is the enemies you fight regularly, because really that shows what the writers intended the character to be.

For example, batman and DD are def street level. Just look at their gallery of rogues, mostly humans who aren't necessarily even peak.

Spiderman, Wolverine and Captain America are not street levels. Wolverine often fights with superfoes like Hulk, Sabretooth, etc. Spiderman often fights venom, carnage, etc and Captain America is fighting super foes of avengers, not some human with mental issues.

so for me, its pretty clear who are street level and who isn't.

I agree with this almost 100%.

H. S. 6
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
So Spiderman/Cyclops are street level to you then?

Spider-Man, yes.

Cyclops, however, faces as many galactic/planet threatening villains as he does operate on the streets, so he's debatable, but I'd say no. wink

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Validus
I'm thinking back to time he claimed he could run a mile in a little over a minute. I'd say that is because of his ability to not "fatigue" the only thing superhuman IMO.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by H. S. 6
Spider-Man, yes.

Cyclops, however, faces as many galactic/planet threatening villains as he does operate on the streets, so he's debatable, but I'd say no. wink My point of this thread is to see the wild difference in what people see as street level, people are saying it's their powers and some are saying it's the villans.

In some of these definitions Superman would be considered Street Level.

masterbruce
cap is superhuman in strength, speed, durability and healing

he was peakhuman as a soldier and then got the supersolider serum which pushed him beyond human, albeit not by a great deal

masterbruce
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
My point of this thread is to see the wild difference in what people see as street level, people are saying it's their powers and some are saying it's the villans.

In some of these definitions Superman would be considered Street Level.

generally, the villains match up to the powers. You have to look at the overall cast of villains and not just one or two in particular.

You don't see batman fighting doomsday or metallo and you don't see superman fighting penguin or riddler

Validus
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I'd say that is because of his ability to not "fatigue" the only thing superhuman IMO.
Even without fatigue the speed required would be a lot. The fastest mile ever is 3:43 and I can't imagine any fatigue that person could have experienced and still maintained that constant of a sprint.

rotiart
Originally posted by masterbruce
cap is superhuman in strength, speed, durability and healing

he was peakhuman as a soldier and then got the supersolider serum which pushed him beyond human, albeit not by a great deal

cap was NOT peakhuman as a soldier... he was called the original 90-lb weakling... due to exposure to the super soldier serum, and training by the government... he became peak human...

He went from benching like 80 lbs... to over 800....

rotiart
If you're a mutant, metahuman, genetically altered human, or alien you are not a streetleveler

If you can fly or project energy or have mental powers.. you're not a street leveler...

If you've ever singlehandedly defeated a villain where the villain could singlehandedly destroy at least a small country .... you are not a streetleveler.

Those are my basic criteria...
And I think according to that... Batman and Captain america aren't streetlevelers... Personally I think of both as very low level metahuman levels.

Cap can knock an jet out of the sky with his shield for gods sake.

I love cap.

Mindship
I never liked the term "street level." "Lower tier" is a more neutral term, and lower tier characters are those whose overall power level is, well, low compared to other, more powerful characters (I'm not sure if it can be interpreted on an absolute basis or in terms of specific powers).

Generally speaking, I would consider Spider-Man at the top of the lower tier. Iron Man or Namor I would consider mid tier; while the likes of Superman or Silver Surfer would be top tier.

rotiart
I'd say spiderman would be a low mid tier rather than a high low tier...
and i'd say captain america would be the high low tier.

Ricodrayz
Depends on many things. One is; like everyone said, is that who they fight more often(Main bad guys and such) determine where they are. Also, they could be street level but one of their powers is way above. Like Cyclops, without his optic ass he could only be streetlevel(He is more street level) but he has his optic ass which could freaking murder powerful people so that power is above street level while the rest of cyclops is below.

Dare Devil is street level but some of his DD senses are above shifty

Tha C-Master
People should keep in mind all heroes do amazing things, but I don't think that alone determines their level... especially when they go into groups and fight strong people like batman, or get stronger when they fight alone... like Cap.

Originally posted by masterbruce
cap is superhuman in strength, speed, durability and healing

he was peakhuman as a soldier and then got the supersolider serum which pushed him beyond human, albeit not by a great deal No, he is the pinnacle of what a human can be... yes I know he does this and that and takes hits from Ironman but you'd be hard pressed to show me where he's superhuman.

Originally posted by masterbruce
generally, the villains match up to the powers. You have to look at the overall cast of villains and not just one or two in particular.

You don't see batman fighting doomsday or metallo and you don't see superman fighting penguin or riddler Batman has faced people that would ahnniliate him and he's street level right? So wouldn't be on the capability of his powers?

Originally posted by Validus
Even without fatigue the speed required would be a lot. The fastest mile ever is 3:43 and I can't imagine any fatigue that person could have experienced and still maintained that constant of a sprint. Allow me to explain more. A person can do a short burst much extremely fast, it can be 60 or so mph but it's very short. However the duration is too short to measure it. Cap doesn't produce lactic acid and therefore he can keep this "burst" up for extremely long periods of time.

That feat seems to be a bit bs as he throws his shield at what? 70 mph, I don't see him running almost as fast as he throws his shield, it would be the only logical explanation. 3x faster than a person isn't so bad though in attacking aspects.

capt it up
Originally posted by endrict
Yes Logan is meant to be street level - above street level but stupid writers and fans make him a God.


BTW this isnt a vs thead.
you do realize his first solo series was written by clemont a guy who said logan is superhuman and also wrote some of logans greatest strength feats

capt it up
Originally posted by masterbruce
cap is superhuman in strength, speed, durability and healing

he was peakhuman as a soldier and then got the supersolider serum which pushed him beyond human, albeit not by a great deal
dude your so wrong it not even funny

Ricodrayz
Originally posted by capt it up
you do realize his first solo series was written by clemont a guy who said logan is superhuman and also wrote some of logans greatest strength feats Wolverine is Batman without a belt and claws mad

capt it up
Wolverine and Spiderman should be out as above street level

batdude123
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I take it Cyclops and Shadowcat aren't street level either?

You consider a guy who can shoot optic blasts that are capable of damaging adamantium street-level?

capt it up
Originally posted by Ricodrayz
Wolverine is Batman without a belt and claws mad
ya if batman had superhuman stamina, strength,reflex,agility, healing factor, senses and so on

capt it up
Originally posted by batdude123
You consider a guy who can shoot optic blasts that are capable of damaging adamantium street-level?
he can't damage adamatium it is unbreakable.


scott phyisically is street level

batdude123
Originally posted by capt it up
reflex,agility

I agree with the rest, but these two categories he shows feats often enough that could possibly push him in that level.

rotiart
Originally posted by capt it up
he can't damage adamatium it is unbreakable.


scott phyisically is street level

Its unbreakable?

Like caps shield is unbreakable?

Like a celestials chest cavity getting tore open by invisible woman?

like thor's hammer getting cut in half?

If adamantium was "unbreakable" it couldn't be manipulated.

Btw. even Thor dented true adamantium.

and have you seen what artic vibranium does to true adamantium? just ask ultron.

rotiart
Originally posted by capt it up
he can't damage adamatium it is unbreakable.


scott phyisically is street level

Iron Man is physically street level...
but you throw him in that suit of armor...

scott can level down forests...

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by batdude123
You consider a guy who can shoot optic blasts that are capable of damaging adamantium street-level? *I* don't think he's street level I was asking it rhetorically. big grin

capt it up
Originally posted by batdude123
I agree with the rest, but these two categories he shows feats often enough that could possibly push him in that level.
ya night wing and batman have some nasty agility reflex feats

capt it up
Originally posted by rotiart
Its unbreakable?
Yup unless broken down a molecular level

Originally posted by rotiart
If adamantium was "unbreakable" it couldn't be manipulated.
It is made through many chemicals that have to stay heated at certain degree once harden how ever it can never be broken or melted again.

Originally posted by rotiart
Btw. even Thor dented true adamantium.
That was secondary

Originally posted by rotiart
nd have you seen what artic vibranium does to true adamantium? just ask ultron.
That broke it down on a molecular level.

Tha C-Master
But that would make it "virtually" unbreakable and not "unbreakable" right?

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by grey fox
A guy who can vaporise a whole forest and take out multiple sentinels. Hell no.

Shadowcat may have been street when she started but not any more. Ninja skills + Heart pull FTW.

What about phasing the arena floor? stick out tongue

capt it up
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
But that would make it "virtually" unbreakable and not "unbreakable" right?
well it unbreakable to physical froce how ever if you can alter in molecular structure then it can be breaken how ever not by any amount of heat or strength

SpunkySmurph
I had to mention this...

Theres a scene in the first episode (I think) of JLU- The JL tries to recruit Green Arrow (who just finished preventing a store-robbery), and his first reaction is to refuse- because while their battling godzilla-level threats, he was the guy who looked after the little guy. Took out the seedy and gritty side of a city. The thugs.

I think street-level is defined by two things- firstly, what kind of threats you battle, and secondly, what kindof threat you are to those you battle. This term would obviously not work in comics- both criteria would only fit some of the time, because level of threats of pretty much everybody fluctuates due to PIS.
But on KMC, where everybody fights to the best of their ability (though INCLUDING CIS), it works.

I consider Batman working on his own in Gotham a street-leveler. I consider Batman working for the JLA, coordinating attacks on the white martians non-street-leveler. Notice the threat he''s battling is quite substantial in one scenerio, whereas in the other, it's quuite less of a threat (though they in themselves are capable of exceeding street-level)

To finish my definition, I am going to clarify a major point. Let me use Captain America as an example- I realize that he battles major threats as a whole, things like saving the world, etc. But, Cap's method of taking down the forces of the Red Skull is different then Hulk tearing through hordes of soldeirs, or Ironman blasting through them, in a matter of seconds. Cap battles every thug- albeit some battles are very simplistic- but he does take a number of steps to take down a thug, whereas someone like Superman barely has to think about it.
You could look at it this way: Captain America is a high threat to every single thug. Martian Manhunter is a high threat to the entire operation.

See the difference?

EDIT: On a further note, this is not the level or threat of the POWERS. I believe I already capatalized that CIS was allowed- For these reasons I consider Shadowcat to be streetlevel. Her POWERS are a major threat to anyone she battles. But she doesnt go around heart-pulling everyone she battles.

Tha C-Master
I think it is that as well. Good post, but I feel it's the nature of the power too.

Superman fights great threats but he usually isn't considered a "cosmic" being, however someone like Surfer is... don't they both go in the depths of space? Don't they absorb energy (although Surfer's is greater)?

Originally posted by capt it up
well it unbreakable to physical froce how ever if you can alter in molecular structure then it can be breaken how ever not by any amount of heat or strength So virtually indestructable, or until someone comes by and does it... so it's indestructable in some aspects as far as we know.

capt it up
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I think it is that as well. Good post, but I feel it's the nature of the power too.

Superman fights great threats but he usually isn't considered a "cosmic" being, however someone like Surfer is... don't they both go in the depths of space? Don't they absorb energy (although Surfer's is greater)?

So virtually indestructable, or until someone comes by and does it... so it's indestructable in some aspects as far as we know.
yup

capt it up
if capt went running around kill people I think he be a population thread. hell punisher went around kill every one he saw would be an even greater population threat then capt.

Priest
This is a great thread. we need a thread like this to see who is exaclty street level..
I hate when people think spiderman is street level, for god sakes, he can pick up freaking train cars..
Captain America in my opinion is a upper street leveler, he's stronger than wolvie, and batman..i guess that makes bas and wolvie mid teir.
Another "street leveler" that should be discused is deathstroke, his he street?

capt it up
Originally posted by Priest
This is a great thread. we need a thread like this to see who is exaclty street level..
I hate when people think spiderman is street level, for god sakes, he can pick up freaking train cars..
Captain America in my opinion is a upper street leveler, he's stronger than wolvie, and batman..i guess that makes bas and wolvie mid teir.
Another "street leveler" that should be discused is deathstroke, his he street?
did you just say wolverine a mid tier street and capt upper? That makes no sense since logan has more powers and has greater powers.

also strength wolverine>>Capt

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I think it is that as well. Good post, but I feel it's the nature of the power too.

Superman fights great threats but he usually isn't considered a "cosmic" being, however someone like Surfer is... don't they both go in the depths of space? Don't they absorb energy (although Surfer's is greater)?

So virtually indestructable, or until someone comes by and does it... so it's indestructable in some aspects as far as we know.

Fair enough. Thanks.


Originally posted by capt it up
if capt went running around kill people I think he be a population thread. hell punisher went around kill every one he saw would be an even greater population threat then capt.

But the level of threat he'd be fighting would be harmless, probably terrified civilians no expression

Priest
Originally posted by capt it up
did you just say wolverine a mid tier street and capt upper? That makes no sense since logan has more powers and has greater powers.

also strength wolverine>>Capt
i wasent talkin bout powers. in the powers department, wolvie deffinalty has the edge.
Strenght wise, yeah i belive cap is stonger than wolvie..
i should do take it back, batman <wolverine in every catagory.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Priest
This is a great thread. we need a thread like this to see who is exaclty street level..
Thanks.

Originally posted by Priest
I hate when people think spiderman is street level, for god sakes, he can pick up freaking train cars.. Well if people go by who you fight, he's most likely street considering he faces the Rhino and Vulture, but then there are Venom and Carnage as well.

Originally posted by Priest
Captain America in my opinion is a upper street leveler, he's stronger than wolvie, and batman..i guess that makes bas and wolvie mid teir.
Well Wolverine has the healing, so I personally would place him above Cap.

Originally posted by Priest
Another "street leveler" that should be discused is deathstroke, his he street? He's tough, but I don't know if I see him in the big picture of things being that high.

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by Priest
batman <wolverine in every catagory .

Perhaps you'd like to reconsider that comment. no expression

Ricodrayz
What is 2 plus 2 Wolverine?

Wolverine: ROARRRRRRRRRRRR
Batman: 4 no expression


Not nearly to that extreme at all but you get the point laughing

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Ricodrayz
What is 2 plus 2 Wolverine?

Wolverine: ROARRRRRRRRRRRR
Batman: 4 no expression


Not nearly to that extreme at all but you get the point laughing That was funny. confused

























laughing

capt it up
Originally posted by Priest
i wasent talkin bout powers. in the powers department, wolvie deffinalty has the edge.
Strenght wise, yeah i belive cap is stonger than wolvie..
i should do take it back, batman <wolverine in every catagory.
why do you find capt stronger? he really only has like one impressive strength feat.

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by capt it up
why do you find capt stronger? he really only has like one impressive strength feat.

I don't think he was reffering to strength, persay.

I took it as him saying Cap was better, not stronger.

Priest
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Thanks.
your welcome!

Originally posted by Tha C-Master Well if people go by who you fight, he's most likely street considering he faces the Rhino and Vulture, but then there are Venom and Carnage as well.
yup carnage and venom are well above street leveler.
Rhino is street level, he deffinalty a class 50, he sucks tho, thats why he gets smacked by other street level guys.
Vulture..ah he sucks lol..
but on spiderman, he should be above street level, when hes put against other street level characters, KMC usally gives him the majority in fights.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Well Wolverine has the healing, so I personally would place him above Cap.
strenght wise i still se cap toppin wolverine.. Wolvies other abilites and addimantium skeleton does come in handy, and even things out between them.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
He's tough, but I don't know if I see him in the big picture of things being that high.
i was just curious bout deathstroke, plus i wanted to sway the conversaion from wolverine to another hero embarrasment

Priest
Originally posted by capt it up
why do you find capt stronger? he really only has like one impressive strength feat.
hurting opponents with blows that are well above him in durabilty and streght without claws and a addimantioum lased fist.

capt it up
Originally posted by Priest
hurting opponents with blows that are well above him in durabilty and streght without claws and a addimantioum lased fist.
thats more PIS then any thing. his strength feats are limited and Logan has fist fought a beaten stronger opponets with his fist then capt

Metalmanx
Originally posted by capt it up
he can't damage adamatium it is unbreakable.


scott phyisically is street level

If Thor was able to put a dent in Cap's shield (a TRUE adamantium/vibranium alloy, stronger than Wolverine's adamantium), why can't he also dent and/or break just true adamantium by itself?

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Priest
your welcome!
wink

Originally posted by Priest
yup carnage and venom are well above street leveler.
Rhino is street level, he deffinalty a class 50, he sucks tho, thats why he gets smacked by other street level guys.
Vulture..ah he sucks lol..
but on spiderman, he should be above street level, when hes put against other street level characters, KMC usally gives him the majority in fights.
I agree, and perhaps that is what should matter around here.

Originally posted by Priest
strenght wise i still se cap toppin wolverine.. Wolvies other abilites and addimantium skeleton does come in handy, and even things out between them.

In terms of overall power, or just physical might?
Originally posted by Priest
i was just curious bout deathstroke, plus i wanted to sway the conversaion from wolverine to another hero embarrasment That's fine, I gave my honest answer.

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by Metalmanx
If Thor was able to put a dent in Cap's shield (a TRUE adamantium/vibranium alloy, stronger than Wolverine's adamantium), why can't he also dent and/or break just true adamantium by itself?

Because Cap's sheild doesn't contain adamantium.

Tha C-Master
It's an alloy of both...

Metalmanx
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Because Cap's sheild doesn't contain adamantium.

Uh...yes it does. It's an alloy of True Adamantium and Vibranium.

capt it up
Originally posted by Metalmanx
If Thor was able to put a dent in Cap's shield (a TRUE adamantium/vibranium alloy, stronger than Wolverine's adamantium), why can't he also dent and/or break just true adamantium by itself?
umm capt shield has no adamatium in it

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Uh...yes it does. It's an alloy of True Adamantium and Vibranium.

No it doesn't. It's an mix of vibranium and steel alloy

capt it up
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Uh...yes it does. It's an alloy of True Adamantium and Vibranium.
no it was resaid not to have any adamatium in it lol

SpunkySmurph
Wikipedia-

During one of his experiments to fuse vibranium with a steel alloy, MacLain fell asleep and woke to find the experiment a success. However, this was due to an unknown catalyst entering the process during his slumber, and he was unable to duplicate the result. The vibranium-steel mix was then poured into a mold for a tank's upper hatch to create the disc shape and painted to become Captain America's symbol.

Rogers' indestructible shield has often been referred to as being an adamantium-vibranium alloy. This is not the case: adamantium was only developed after Rogers was revived from suspended animation, during MacLain's later experiments to try and duplicate the material of the shield (the substance made its first appearance in Avengers Vol. 1 #66, July 1969).

rotiart
Originally posted by capt it up
well it unbreakable to physical froce how ever if you can alter in molecular structure then it can be breaken how ever not by any amount of heat or strength

In deaths head #2 or #4 I forget.. wolverine breaks his claws trying to attack DH.

In Age of Apocalypse, Cyclops blasts off wolverine's hand, adamantium and all.

On Wikipedia, marvel.com, marveldirectory.com all state that it would take a sufficient amount of adamantium to survive a nuclear explosion.

I am pretty sure that the comic involved with Thor involved him denting a cylinder of True adamantium... and I can't find anything about this being secondary adamantium.

In other thoughts in the ultimates universe:
The hulk breaks a needle made of true adamantium.

The hulk rips Wolverine skeleton and all in half.

One of Sabretooth's adamantium claws snaps.

Even in comics, the original creator referred to adamantium as virtually unbreakable. Well sure.. but anything that a mere earthling might be able to do... Are you gonna sit there and tell me if the living tribunal fired off a powerful energy blast at adamantium... it'd be sitting there fine and dandy?

You crazy. Currently for all intents and purposes it appears indestructible... but there was a time the destroyer was stated as indestructible, and remember what the Celestials did to him.

And Celestials are godlike... but remember what Invisible woman did to his chest cavity.

The Onslaught Armor... what Joseph and Cyclops did to that...

There have been a ton of items in the marvel universe stated as indestructible... then 5 minutes later... guess what.

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by rotiart


There have been a ton of items in the marvel universe stated as indestructible... then 5 minutes later... guess what.

Are you attempting to suggest that Adamantium is any ordinary plot device? What the f**k?

capt it up
Originally posted by rotiart
In deaths head #2 or #4 I forget.. wolverine breaks his claws trying to attack DH.
? was that the normal universe I doubt it since logan still ahs his adamatium claws.

Originally posted by rotiart
In Age of Apocalypse, Cyclops blasts off wolverine's hand, adamantium and all.
Alternate reality and also you do realize he shot off the joint not the adamatium.

Originally posted by rotiart
On Wikipedia, marvel.com, marveldirectory.com all state that it would take a sufficient amount of adamantium to survive a nuclear explosion.
Neither of them are official sources.

Originally posted by rotiart
I am pretty sure that the comic involved with Thor involved him denting a cylinder of True adamantium... and I can't find anything about this being secondary adamantium.
That was secondary adamatium. Not that it matter since logan skeleton is not true adamatium.

Originally posted by rotiart
In other thoughts in the ultimates universe:
The hulk breaks a needle made of true adamantium.

The hulk rips Wolverine skeleton and all in half.

One of Sabretooth's adamantium claws snaps.
Non of that is 616 and in ultimate universe it stated as almost unbreakable.

Originally posted by rotiart
Even in comics, the original creator referred to adamantium as virtually unbreakable.
It also been referred to as unbreakable. The fact is has logan skeleton ever been broken?

Originally posted by rotiart
Well sure.. but anything that a mere earthling might be able to do... Are you gonna sit there and tell me if the living tribunal fired off a powerful energy blast at adamantium... it'd be sitting there fine and dandy?
Not but the living tribunal can turn any thing into any thing.

Originally posted by rotiart
You crazy.

Why? Because I say some thing that been stated and shown repeatedly in comic to be unbreakable is in fact unbreakable unless on a molecular level.
Currently for all intents and purposes it appears indestructible... but there was a time the

Originally posted by rotiart
destroyer was stated as indestructible, and remember what the Celestials did to him.

And Celestials are godlike... but remember what Invisible woman did to his chest cavity.

The Onslaught Armor... what Joseph and Cyclops did to that...

There have been a ton of items in the marvel universe stated as indestructible... then 5 minutes later... guess what.
Yes but logans skeleton ahs yet to be damage at all by physical force.

rotiart
Originally posted by capt it up
? was that the normal universe I doubt it since logan still ahs his adamatium claws.


Alternate reality and also you do realize he shot off the joint not the adamatium.


Neither of them are official sources.


That was secondary adamatium. Not that it matter since logan skeleton is not true adamatium.


Non of that is 616 and in ultimate universe it stated as almost unbreakable.


It also been referred to as unbreakable. The fact is has logan skeleton ever been broken?


Not but the living tribunal can turn any thing into any thing.



Why? Because I say some thing that been stated and shown repeatedly in comic to be unbreakable is in fact unbreakable unless on a molecular level.
Currently for all intents and purposes it appears indestructible... but there was a time the


Yes but logans skeleton ahs yet to be damage at all by physical force.

marvel.com is not an "official source?"
Death's Head was 616 universe
Age of Apocalypse is still 616 universe... the character powers and item descriptions don't change like they might in Ultimates (You're reaching)
Every source i show says it was true adamantium thor damaged not secondary. Even from Answers.com... 4 different sources.. and one is even marvel.com
Its been referred to as unbreakable... and cyclops blasts have been said as being able to damage it.
Cyclops blasts in Age of Apocalypse enveloped the whole hand... not the joint.

All sites so far allude to the fact that if you don't got enough true adamantium.... a nuclear bomb at ground level would damage it. meaning.... duh duh duh... it isn't indestructible.

Soljer
Infinity Gauntlet punch = broken adamantium.

King Thor hammer blow = broken adamantium.

Adamantium isn't unbreakable. Do you really think that if say....the living tribunal wanted to, he couldn't snap Wolverine like a twig using strength alone?

rotiart
I always wondered... if you took hulk... and gave him the power gem... and then used the mind gem to put him at "peak anger" all the time... kinda like during the onslaught thing... how strong would he be. big grin

capt it up
Originally posted by rotiart
marvel.com is not an "official source?"
No it not it allows fans to right on it.

Originally posted by rotiart
Death's Head was 616 universe
You mean when the x-men went to another dimension and were all killed?

Originally posted by rotiart
Age of Apocalypse is still 616 universe... the character powers and item descriptions on't change like they might in Ultimates (You're reaching)
No it not it a whole new time line. Im not reach at all you are. Hey how about this you ever read the what if wolverine was war? Ya that about as close to the 616 as AOA and logan killed every major bad guy him self so ya that tell you how good info is from AOA.

Originally posted by rotiart
Every source i show says it was true adamantium thor damaged not secondary.
I love to see the official source that says that. Not to mention hulk has fail to damage logans skeleton repeatedly

Originally posted by rotiart
Even from Answers.com... 4 different sources.. and one is even marvel.com
Neither of which are official.

Originally posted by rotiart
Its been referred to as unbreakable... and cyclops blasts have been said as being able to damage it.
When has scots blast ever in the 616 world been said to break it?


Originally posted by rotiart
All sites so far allude to the fact that if you don't got enough true adamantium.... a nuclear bomb at ground level would damage it. meaning.... duh duh duh... it isn't indestructible.
Duh duh duh duh venom on the run 2 duh duh duh duh logan skeleton survived being in the sun.

You had to make me bring them up.

capt it up
Originally posted by Soljer
Infinity Gauntlet punch = broken adamantium.

King Thor hammer blow = broken adamantium.

Adamantium isn't unbreakable. Do you really think that if say....the living tribunal wanted to, he couldn't snap Wolverine like a twig using strength alone?
infity gauntlet punck would destroy the universe.


king thor with odin powers blasted it which destroyed it on a molecular level

rotiart
You are ASSUMING it destroyed it on a molecular level... and not that it was merely the power of the blast that destroyed it.

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by capt it up
No it not it allows fans to right on it.


You mean when the x-men went to another dimension and were all killed?


No it not it a whole new time line. Im not reach at all you are. Hey how about this you ever read the what if wolverine was war? Ya that about as close to the 616 as AOA and logan killed every major bad guy him self so ya that tell you how good info is from AOA.


I love to see the official source that says that. Not to mention hulk has fail to damage logans skeleton repeatedly


Neither of which are official.


When has scots blast ever in the 616 world been said to break it?



Duh duh duh duh venom on the run 2 duh duh duh duh logan skeleton survived being in the sun.

You had to make me bring them up.

And that's why Capt is better then your average Wolverine fan

It's nice to see you put all that Wolverine knowledge into an owning

capt it up
Originally posted by rotiart
You are ASSUMING it destroyed it on a molecular level... and not that it was merely the power of the blast that destroyed it.
they were in asguard were he has rain over every thing he could simply make any thing disapear if he full choice to it like fighting the living tribute

Ricodrayz
lalalalalala

capt it up
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
And that's why Capt is better then your average Wolverine fan

It's nice to see you put all that Wolverine knowledge into an owning
thanks I think .

bigbran
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
This one has been on my mind for awhile... the terminology of what is Street Level is too vague. Some would consider Spiderman street level, and others would argue he's beyond. In terms of what and who he fights he would be Street Level, but in terms of powerset he is beyond DD, Cap, Batman, etc. So I can see what both sides are getting at.

Is it the fact that they cannot fly? Or that they are fighting normal crooks and "people on the street", or what? What makes a character street level, and where would you draw the line.

Powers.
Feats.
Location.
Statistics.
Other. Well duh, A healing factor and claws.

rotiart
Originally posted by capt it up
No it not it allows fans to right on it.


You mean when the x-men went to another dimension and were all killed?


No it not it a whole new time line. Im not reach at all you are. Hey how about this you ever read the what if wolverine was war? Ya that about as close to the 616 as AOA and logan killed every major bad guy him self so ya that tell you how good info is from AOA.


I love to see the official source that says that. Not to mention hulk has fail to damage logans skeleton repeatedly


Neither of which are official.


When has scots blast ever in the 616 world been said to break it?



Duh duh duh duh venom on the run 2 duh duh duh duh logan skeleton survived being in the sun.

You had to make me bring them up.

Age of apoc is still "616" because all thats changed is the "time" this isn't like 626 or 606 where punisher killed off every hero.

Age of Apoc is cannon.
Death's Head is cannon.

The What If's aren't.
Are you gonna say that Days of Futures past isn't cannon anymore?
House of M isn't cannon?
LegionQuest?

Surfer can survive being in the sun... but gets hurt by human torch. So you're gonna say surfer is a durability chump now?

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by capt it up
thanks I think .

It was a compliment wink

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by bigbran
Well duh, A healing factor and claws.

roll eyes (sarcastic)

Wrong. That's what makes you a Celestial

capt it up
Originally posted by rotiart
Age of apoc is still "616" because all thats changed is the "time" this isn't like 626 or 606 where punisher killed off every hero.
Still just like an alternate reality.

Originally posted by rotiart
Age of Apoc is cannon.
How is that cannon? If it was cannon it be 616 which it is not unless you want me to prove logan is not missing a hand lol.

Originally posted by rotiart
Death's Head is cannon.
Canít comment sicne you have yet to explain what that is.

Originally posted by rotiart
Are you gonna say that Days of Futures past isn't cannon anymore?
It never was all of the x-men are alive of course it not cannon it happen in another reality

Originally posted by rotiart
House of M isn't cannon?
Only some of it is cannon like the aprt were they all attack magneto that cannon the flash backs of there lives is not.

Originally posted by rotiart
LegionQuest?
No idea what that is.

Originally posted by rotiart
Surfer can survive being in the sun... but gets hurt by human torch. So you're gonna say surfer is a durability chump now?
Makes no sense what you just said

capt it up
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
It was a compliment wink
oh ok good thanks lol

bigbran
Originally posted by capt it up

That was secondary
Actually, Thor was ripping apart hundreds of secondary adamantium Ultrons. He didn't dent them, he broke them.
He could easily dent true adamantium.

Also Hulk has rolled adamantium into a ball. Thanos transmuted adamantium into rubber(with the wave of a hand). Hulk has dented Ultron. Wonderman has crushed Ultron's head. Didn't S'ym (or whatever the hell her name was) snap Wolverine's claws? Thanos with Power Gem shattered Cap's shield.

bigbran
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
roll eyes (sarcastic)

Wrong. That's what makes you a Celestial I was actually going to put a god, but, you know.

capt it up
Originally posted by bigbran
Actually, Thor was ripping apart hundreds of secondary adamantium Ultrons. He didn't dent them, he broke them.
He could easily dent true adamantium.

Also Hulk has rolled adamantium into a ball. Thanos transmuted adamantium into rubber(with the wave of a hand). Hulk has dented Ultron. Wonderman has crushed Ultron's head. Didn't S'ym (or whatever the hell her name was) snap Wolverine's claws?
hulk has never dented true admatium let a lone turn it into a ball.

thor has never dented true adamtium also. Hulk has failed to break logans skeleton so has herc.


thanos never did that with a wave of his hand. He turned logans skeleton into rubber after logan stabb him and he also had the glove at the time.

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by bigbran
Actually, Thor was ripping apart hundreds of secondary adamantium Ultrons. He didn't dent them, he broke them.
He could easily dent true adamantium.

Also Hulk has rolled adamantium into a ball. Thanos transmuted adamantium into rubber(with the wave of a hand). Hulk has dented Ultron. Wonderman has crushed Ultron's head. Didn't S'ym (or whatever the hell her name was) snap Wolverine's claws? Thanos with Power Gem shattered Cap's shield.

Just because I'm picky:

1. Transmutation is changing the molecules. Proves nothing
2. Cap's shield DOESNT HAVE ANY ADAMANTIUM

rotiart
caps shield may not be adamantium... but its believed to be more impervius than adamantium

capt it up
Originally posted by rotiart
caps shield may not be adamantium... but its believed to be more impervius than adamantium
not true it absorbes shock with means if the shock is to great for it it will break un like adamatium which does not absorb shock

bigbran
Originally posted by capt it up
hulk has never dented true admatium let a lone turn it into a ball.

thor has never dented true adamtium also. Hulk has failed to break logans skeleton so has herc.


thanos never did that with a wave of his hand. He turned logans skeleton into rubber after logan stabb him and he also had the glove at the time. Hulk turned Adamantium into a ball, before the time when there was secondary adamantium...so ya.

But Thor has ripped apart secondary. I have no doubt that Thor could.

Oh, I'm sorry, he didn't even move his hand. I was wrong.
http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=theinfinitygauntlet0421ug6.jpg
*ignoring the pis that is Wolverine stabbing Thanos, because that is another debate*
http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=theinfinitygauntlet0422wg8.jpg

Also, if you did your research slugger, you would find out that he only used the power gem.
Thanos with the gauntlet.
http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=theinfinitygauntlet0407bt2.jpg

http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=theinfinitygauntlet0409na7.jpg
^^^
And there you have it.

http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=theinfinitygauntlet0410ht0.jpg

So he had just his power.
But the question is, would that increase his transmutation skills?

rotiart
Be like water... do not be like rock.

That will does not change is still. That which cannot change... shall break.

your twig snaps. the end.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Wikipedia-

During one of his experiments to fuse vibranium with a steel alloy, MacLain fell asleep and woke to find the experiment a success. However, this was due to an unknown catalyst entering the process during his slumber, and he was unable to duplicate the result. The vibranium-steel mix was then poured into a mold for a tank's upper hatch to create the disc shape and painted to become Captain America's symbol.

Rogers' indestructible shield has often been referred to as being an adamantium-vibranium alloy. This is not the case: adamantium was only developed after Rogers was revived from suspended animation, during MacLain's later experiments to try and duplicate the material of the shield (the substance made its first appearance in Avengers Vol. 1 #66, July 1969).

Wikipedia (for "Adamantium"wink:

"Adamantium is a virtually indestructible metal alloy. There exists two types, True and Secondary. True Adamantium was invented by Dr. Myron MacLain in a failed attempt to reverse-engineer the procedure that led to the creation of Captain America's shield, which is an alloy of True Adamantium and Wakandan Vibranium."

bigbran
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Just because I'm picky:

1. Transmutation is changing the molecules. Proves nothing
2. Cap's shield DOESNT HAVE ANY ADAMANTIUM Isn't adamantium unbreakable? So wouldn't that screw with any chances you have of changing it?

Cap's shield has in reality, tooken bigger blows than Wolverine. He also has another unbreakable substance(supposedly), Vibranium.
Even if it isn't adamantium, it sure as hell doesn't show.
Plus if the person above me is right, then Thanos did infact destroy this metal.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Wikipedia (for "Adamantium"wink:

"Adamantium is a virtually indestructible metal alloy. There exists two types, True and Secondary. True Adamantium was invented by Dr. Myron MacLain in a failed attempt to reverse-engineer the procedure that led to the creation of Captain America's shield, which is an alloy of True Adamantium and Wakandan Vibranium."

Yeah... thats wrong.


Here is the question of the hour though. In trying to recreate the process used in creating Cap's shield why wasn't Vibranium, the one know ingredient in the creation of said shield, used? It is like trying to recreated a ham sandwich with out the ham.

capt it up
Originally posted by bigbran
Hulk turned Adamantium into a ball, before the time when there was secondary adamantium...so ya.

But Thor has ripped apart secondary. I have no doubt that Thor could.

Oh, I'm sorry, he didn't even move his hand. I was wrong.
http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=theinfinitygauntlet0421ug6.jpg
*ignoring the pis that is Wolverine stabbing Thanos, because that is another debate*
http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=theinfinitygauntlet0422wg8.jpg

Also, if you did your research slugger, you would find out that he only used the power gem.
Thanos with the gauntlet.
http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=theinfinitygauntlet0407bt2.jpg

http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=theinfinitygauntlet0409na7.jpg
^^^
And there you have it.

http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=theinfinitygauntlet0410ht0.jpg

So he had just his power.
But the question is, would that increase his transmutation skills?
yes not that it matter since it messed with the adamtium on a molecular level which is the only known way to damage it.

also when hulk rolled adamtium into a ball it was later reconn to have been secondary adamatium there a massive artical and such about why secondary admatium was made

rotiart
hrmm.... ham sandwich sounds good.

srankmissingnin
"God damn it! Why can't I make a ham sandwich? I've tried everything I can think of! Bread and turkey. Bread and corn beef. Bread and chicken! Why isn't it working?"

And thus Adamantium was created.

bigbran
Originally posted by capt it up
yes not that it matter since it messed with the adamtium on a molecular level which is the only known way to damage it.

also when hulk rolled adamtium into a ball it was later reconn to have been secondary adamatium there a massive artical and such about why secondary admatium was made Unbreakable means unbreakable. So if you can mess with the density, doesn't that make it "breakable"?

Also, I guess I haven't seen this article.
So does this mean, that Ultron was secondary adamantium his whole career too?
But if that's true, then Thor should have snapped him in every fight.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by bigbran
Unbreakable means unbreakable. So if you can mess with the density, doesn't that make it "breakable"?

Also, I guess I haven't seen this article.
So does this mean, that Ultron was secondary adamantium his whole career too?
But if that's true, then Thor should have snapped him in every fight.

Duarbility means nothing to a matter manipulater. They could turn adamantium into a mound of fudge if they felt like it, weaking the molecular bounds is a simple matter.

capt it up
Originally posted by bigbran
Unbreakable means unbreakable. So if you can mess with the density, doesn't that make it "breakable"?

Also, I guess I haven't seen this article.
So does this mean, that Ultron was secondary adamantium his whole career too?
But if that's true, then Thor should have snapped him in every fight.
yes well there was once a primary one I believe not sure though. also defferent secondary admatium have greater durability.


primary adamtium is only breakable on a moleculor level

Metalmanx
Originally posted by capt it up
No it not it a whole new time line. Im not reach at all you are. Hey how about this you ever read the what if wolverine was war? Ya that about as close to the 616 as AOA and logan killed every major bad guy him self so ya that tell you how good info is from AOA.

When has scots blast ever in the 616 world been said to break it?

Duh duh duh duh venom on the run 2 duh duh duh duh logan skeleton survived being in the sun.

You had to make me bring them up.

Being in the sun isn't that impressive. The sun's exterior temperature is 11,000 degrees F. The temperature of a nuclear explosions is measured in the TENS OF MILLIONS OF DEGREES F.

A nuclear explosion DWARFS the temperature of the sun.

And why isn't AOA canon? It's the same set up and everything, just happens to be a different timeline, something that affected the "mainstream" universe. I mean, according to you, the "Days of Future Past" isn't canon. Which, to my knowledge, it is.

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Yeah... thats wrong.


Here is the question of the hour though. In trying to recreate the process used in creating Cap's shield why wasn't Vibranium, the one know ingredient in the creation of said shield, used? It is like trying to recreated a ham sandwich with out the ham.

Notice the 'reverse-engineer'. As in the opposite process. Not re-create

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Being in the sun isn't that impressive. The sun's exterior temperature is 11,000 degrees F. The temperature of a nuclear explosions is measured in the TENS OF MILLIONS OF DEGREES F.

A nuclear explosion DWARFS the temperature of the sun.

And why isn't AOA canon? It's the same set up and everything, just happens to be a different timeline, something that affected the "mainstream" universe. I mean, according to you, the "Days of Future Past" isn't canon. Which, to my knowledge, it is.


Because Hulk was killed with a bullet to the brain. mad

capt it up
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Being in the sun isn't that impressive. The sun's exterior temperature is 11,000 degrees F. The temperature of a nuclear explosions is measured in the TENS OF MILLIONS OF DEGREES F.

A nuclear explosion DWARFS the temperature of the sun.

And why isn't AOA canon? It's the same set up and everything, just happens to be a different timeline, something that affected the "mainstream" universe. I mean, according to you, the "Days of Future Past" isn't canon. Which, to my knowledge, it is.
it not cannon and enevr was. it easily explain becuase cable form the future so is bishop yet nothing they do in the past will affect there future it will simply help the 616 universe.


AOA is nto cannon nor is the days of the future past.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by capt it up
Still just like an alternate reality.

How is that cannon? If it was cannon it be 616 which it is not unless you want me to prove logan is not missing a hand lol.

Canít comment sicne you have yet to explain what that is.

It never was all of the x-men are alive of course it not cannon it happen in another reality

Only some of it is cannon like the aprt were they all attack magneto that cannon the flash backs of there lives is not.

No idea what that is.

Makes no sense what you just said

Where's that face-slapping smiley, when I need it?

Are you REALLY arguing that the reason AOA and DOFP aren't canon is because the effects aren't the same in present time?!?!

...Okay, try to follow me here. You're saying that since Wolverine still has his hand, that it can't be true. You DO realize that AOA took place in an alternate future in the 616 universe right? By GOING BACK IN TIME, they stopped it from happening. Wolverine didn't lose his hand.

Days of Future Past happened. Canon. In 616. Get over it.

Same for AOA.

It's called TIME TRAVEL.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Notice the 'reverse-engineer'. As in the opposite process. Not re-create

The wiki article also says that Cap's shield is made from Primary Adamantium... so it is wrong in two accounts. Hurray!

Metalmanx
Originally posted by bigbran
Actually, Thor was ripping apart hundreds of secondary adamantium Ultrons. He didn't dent them, he broke them.
He could easily dent true adamantium.

Also Hulk has rolled adamantium into a ball. Thanos transmuted adamantium into rubber(with the wave of a hand). Hulk has dented Ultron. Wonderman has crushed Ultron's head. Didn't S'ym (or whatever the hell her name was) snap Wolverine's claws? Thanos with Power Gem shattered Cap's shield.

Yea. S'ym snapped Wolverine's claws. With pure physical force. Like they were nothing.

bigbran
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Duarbility means nothing to a matter manipulater. They could turn adamantium into a mound of fudge if they felt like it, weaking the molecular bounds is a simple matter. Thus breakable.
If something is vunerbal to one thing, does this make it invincible?
Being impervious to physical harm doesn't make it unbreakable.
He broke down, BROKE DOWN, the metal, to change it.

Also, do you guys really think that a cosmic being like Galactus couldn't snap adamantium?

bigbran
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Yea. S'ym snapped Wolverine's claws. With pure physical force. Like they were nothing. Hmmm, I guess that answers that.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by capt it up
yes not that it matter since it messed with the adamtium on a molecular level which is the only known way to damage it.

also when hulk rolled adamtium into a ball it was later reconn to have been secondary adamatium there a massive artical and such about why secondary admatium was made

Where is said article?

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by bigbran
Thus breakable.
If something is vunerbal to one thing, does this make it invincible?
Being impervious to physical harm doesn't make it unbreakable.
He broke down, BROKE DOWN, the metal, to change it.

Also, do you guys really think that a cosmic being like Galactus couldn't snap adamantium?

Primary Adamantium is unbreakable. Someone with matter manipulation can alter adamantium because in essance they aren't even dealing with Adamantium anymore as the molecular make up has changed. Do you understand?

capt it up
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Where's that face-slapping smiley, when I need it?

Are you REALLY arguing that the reason AOA and DOFP aren't canon is because the effects aren't the same in present time?!?!

...Okay, try to follow me here. You're saying that since Wolverine still has his hand, that it can't be true. You DO realize that AOA took place in an alternate future in the 616 universe right? By GOING BACK IN TIME, they stopped it from happening. Wolverine didn't lose his hand.

Days of Future Past happened. Canon. In 616. Get over it.

Same for AOA.

It's called TIME TRAVEL.

Ya and do you realize nothing that cable or bishop did affected there future which means it a whole nother time line.

How is days of the future past cannon? all the x-men are alive nothing in there universe means squat to 616 at the moment.

AOA never took place in the 616 universe it an alternate universe. The what if wolverine was war also split from the normal universe from apoc on so ya do you think of that as cannon hell no. Not to mention there are some major differences in AOA that are not in 616

capt it up
Originally posted by bigbran
Hmmm, I guess that answers that.
they were also in another universe all togather were every x-men was killed lol

capt it up
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Where is said article?
no idea I read it like 2 years ago I surpirzed none of you ever heard why they came out with secondary adamatium

Metalmanx
Originally posted by capt it up
it not cannon and enevr was. it easily explain becuase cable form the future so is bishop yet nothing they do in the past will affect there future it will simply help the 616 universe.


AOA is nto cannon nor is the days of the future past.

...That doesn't make any sense. Isn't that what Cable is CONSTANTLY doing? Trying to prevent some big badness from happening that he knows will happen in the future? Yes. Yes it is.

Try again. Explain to me why AOA and DOFP aren't canon.

bigbran
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Primary Adamantium is unbreakable. Someone with matter manipulation can alter adamantium because in essance they aren't even dealing with Adamantium anymore as the molecular make up has changed. Do you understand? I always understood.
But if your saying that they aren't dealing with it. Then wouldn't they just be able to do it with the same effort as it takes to change a piece of bread?
So, Magneto should be able to affect it the same as he does weaker metals? Since he isn't dealing with it.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by capt it up
Ya and do you realize nothing that cable or bishop did affected there future which means it a whole nother time line.

How is days of the future past cannon? all the x-men are alive nothing in there universe means squat to 616 at the moment.

AOA never took place in the 616 universe it an alternate universe. The what if wolverine was war also split from the normal universe from apoc on so ya do you think of that as cannon hell no. Not to mention there are some major differences in AOA that are not in 616

...The What Ifs aren't canon because they AREN'T CANON. They're specifically made to be WHAT-IFS. HYPOTHETICAL SITUATIONS. Why is that so hard to understand?

And what are these major differences in AOA from 616 that you speak of? List some, if not all of them.

capt it up
Originally posted by Metalmanx
...That doesn't make any sense. Isn't that what Cable is CONSTANTLY doing? Trying to prevent some big badness from happening that he knows will happen in the future? Yes. Yes it is.

Try again. Explain to me why AOA and DOFP aren't canon.
ugg cables tryign to help there future not his own.. also aoa is not cables time if I remeber correctly. Prove how a0a is 616 please im begging to know how it 616 since then that would mean 616 was another whole reality and not 616

srankmissingnin
DofP is Earth 811 not earth 616. It isn't canon but the story surrounding it is.

Metalmanx
Could Galactus, with purely physical force, snap a 1" thick bar of true adamantium?

rotiart
AoA is cannon, Captitup is making shit up.

Nate Grey, Dark Beast, Blink, Holocaust all came from the AoA universe to this one....

He's reaching. The only change is... duh duh duh... timeline changes...
The characters.. their powers.. their powerlevels... are all the same...

wolverine was still infected with true adamantium at the point where xavier died...

scott and his brother still fell to earth from a plane..

he doesn't want to believe stuff like that is cannon because it means he is wrong.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by rotiart
AoA is cannon, Captitup is making shit up.

Nate Grey, Dark Beast, Blink, Holocaust all came from the AoA universe to this one....

He's reaching. The only change is... duh duh duh... timeline changes...
The characters.. their powers.. their powerlevels... are all the same...

wolverine was still infected with true adamantium at the point where xavier died...

scott and his brother still fell to earth from a plane..

he doesn't want to believe stuff like that is cannon because it means he is wrong.

EXACTLY.

capt it up
Originally posted by Metalmanx
...The What Ifs aren't canon because they AREN'T CANON. They're specifically made to be WHAT-IFS. HYPOTHETICAL SITUATIONS. Why is that so hard to understand?

And what are these major differences in AOA from 616 that you speak of? List some, if not all of them.
lets see the gauthier family for one they had the brother powers already formed correct how ever in the 616 world there younger sibblings have yet to show there powers.

aoa is a what if it whole idea is just a huge what if. it supose to be what if magneto took over the x-men becuase charlies died that the whole freaken point.

I don't know what it so hard for you to get through your head. charlies dieng is a major deifference

masterbruce
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Could Galactus, with purely physical force, snap a 1" thick bar of true adamantium?

no, not with physical force. but if he wanted to snap it, he prob could.

rotiart
..... you don't think someone like galactus couldn't snap a ...

wow.

capt it up
Originally posted by rotiart
AoA is cannon, Captitup is making shit up.

Nate Grey, Dark Beast, Blink, Holocaust all came from the AoA universe to this one....

He's reaching. The only change is... duh duh duh... timeline changes...
The characters.. their powers.. their powerlevels... are all the same...

wolverine was still infected with true adamantium at the point where xavier died...

scott and his brother still fell to earth from a plane..

he doesn't want to believe stuff like that is cannon because it means he is wrong.
not at all it just not cannon the whole point of it not cannon it a what if. it the same only up to when charlies death after that it a whole nother universe. als0 wolverine does not have true adamtium in him. I not lieing nor am I reaching.

also you ever realize there no 616 blink?

rotiart
do you realize that as far as cyclop and wolverine are concerned... in aoa... compared to 616 the only differences are the changes to the timeline...

the relative powersets of both cyclops and wolverine did NOT change.

and cyclops still cut off the hand.

its not like ultimates universe where there ARE changes to the items and powersets

bigbran
Originally posted by rotiart
..... you don't think someone like galactus couldn't snap a ...

wow. He said Magneto could beat Galactus.Originally posted by masterbruce
no, not with physical force. but if he wanted to snap it, he prob could. Wow... Explain?

srankmissingnin
AoA is Earth 295.
DofP is Earth 811.

They are both alternate realities that steamed from a divergence in a time line, both are non-canon. Case closed.

rotiart
captitup is giving me a headache...

One day a planetbuster is gonna come to earth... blast it with a disintegration beam... and nothing will be left... except for wolverine's skeleton...

That is the most absurd and stupid thought process I've ever seen.

capt it up
Originally posted by rotiart
do you realize that as far as cyclop and wolverine are concerned... in aoa... compared to 616 the only differences are the changes to the timeline...

the relative powersets of both cyclops and wolverine did NOT change.

and cyclops still cut off the hand.

its not like ultimates universe where there ARE changes to the items and powersets
lets see the waht if wolverien was war only differed up till apoc made him war and he took out apoc,jugg and so on do you find that cannon.


also there a amjoy different your forgetting about it calling apoc putting wolverine adamtium into him.

not to mention the whole scot being evil and havoc being evil not to mention the whole there father being brutally tortured by apoc

capt it up
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
AoA is Earth 295.
DofP is Earth 811.

They are both alternate realities that steamed from a divergence in a time line, both are non-canon. Case closed.
yup and yet they call me the idiot

rotiart
Originally posted by capt it up
lets see the waht if wolverien was war only differed up till apoc made him war and he took out apoc,jugg and so on do you find that cannon.


also there a amjoy different your forgetting about it calling apoc putting wolverine adamtium into him.

not to mention the whole scot being evil and havoc being evil not to mention the whole here father being brutally tortured by apoc

First What If's are not cannon

Age of Apocalypse is.

bigbran
Would Gamora be a high tier?

capt it up
Originally posted by rotiart
captitup is giving me a headache...

One day a planetbuster is gonna come to earth... blast it with a disintegration beam... and nothing will be left... except for wolverine's skeleton...

That is the most absurd and stupid thought process I've ever seen.
naw that just you not being able to understand a simple fact

capt it up
Originally posted by rotiart
First What If's are not cannon

Age of Apocalypse is.
niether are cannon.
AOA is earth 295 not 616 so ya case closed

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by rotiart
First What If's are not cannon

Age of Apocalypse is.

What If's are all just as canon as AoA. Every What if... story is also given a number to corispond with it's place in the multi-verse, the same as AoA. None of them have any baring on 616 Marvel Earth though.

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