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If Thor pulled off the godblast, how do you think Darky would take it?

And if Darkseid pulled off the OE, could Thor possibly absorb and reflect it back, times ten??

Not a traditional battle thread.

Just energy output

Which Thor? Marvel's or DC's?

Either way, Darkseid wins. Thor shouldn't be able to block/absorb/reflect the Omega Effect. No character should, unless they're essential to the universe (ie. Galactus).

hmm, this is a tough one. it's a battle i'd LOVE to see. the only problem i have with what lord s said above is that while the omega effect is obviously famously powerful and generally considered to be 'unstoppable', i've never understood WHY it is so powerful. there is no apparent tie to the source (unless recently shown . . .??) and as such it is simply a power he gained from the infinity pit on apokalips. WHY should it be considered so great? why should i believe that it surpasses the power of the celestials, a power thor HAS absorbed and contained? he's absorbed and contained a blast from phoenix. the list is endless.

we could say darkseid>odin thus darkseid>mjollnir. that's hard to counter, but given darkseid's portrayals in recent years, i'd have to question the accuracy of those comparisons.

i'm still gonna side with darkseid (because i think he's a GREAT character -- though i LOVE thor as well) in this, but it would NOT be easy, and i can certainly see thor getting some wins.

I'd say the OE destroy's thor's hammer like Destroyer did with his disintegration beams... Or maybe the hammer gets cut in half... like when Perrikus cut it with his scythe (did I spell that right?)

The OE used to be able to ignore objects to disintegrate whatever object it needed to... I'd say the OE unwrites Thor.

Darkseid has withstood the full blasts of Superman before and winced... I'd equate that to Thors godblast... and say.. Darkseid would feel it... but he'd go on... whereas Thor's a goner.

Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, this is a tough one. it's a battle i'd LOVE to see. the only problem i have with what lord s said above is that while the omega effect is obviously famously powerful and generally considered to be 'unstoppable', i've never understood WHY it is so powerful. there is no apparent tie to the source (unless recently shown . . .??) and as such it is simply a power he gained from the infinity pit on apokalips. WHY should it be considered so great? why should i believe that it surpasses the power of the celestials, a power thor HAS absorbed and contained? he's absorbed and contained a blast from phoenix. the list is endless.

we could say darkseid>odin thus darkseid>mjollnir. that's hard to counter, but given darkseid's portrayals in recent years, i'd have to question the accuracy of those comparisons.

i'm still gonna side with darkseid (because i think he's a GREAT character -- though i LOVE thor as well) in this, but it would NOT be easy, and i can certainly see thor getting some wins.

Originally posted by leonidas
but given darkseid's portrayals in recent years, i'd have to question the accuracy of those comparisons.

I agree with alot of your post. But this sticks out to me. I thought all of Darkseids "low showings" were retconned to be his Avatars? If it's true I have no problems with this. Darkseid is supposed to be one of the top dogs.

Darkseid's low showings... were avatars...

what is it you have problems with? doesn't this mean he's still a top dog?

Originally posted by rotiart
Darkseid's low showings... were avatars...

what is it you have problems with? doesn't this mean he's still a top dog? I just remember some people were bitching awhile back when they found this out.

I just don't think guys like Superman, Orion, etc. should be able to hang with seid.

Originally posted by rotiart
The OE used to be able to ignore objects to disintegrate whatever object it needed to... I'd say the OE unwrites Thor.

Yeah, used to ignore. I'd say if WW can deflect it with her bracelets, Thor can definitely absorb it. Not that Mjolnir is as durable as her Aegis shield though. Don't get it confused.

Godblast KO's DS. If it sent Galactus fleeing for his life, DS is definitely getting hurt.

Originally posted by Validus
Yeah, used to ignore. I'd say if WW can deflect it with her bracelets, Thor can definitely absorb it. Not that Mjolnir is as durable as her Aegis shield though. Don't get it confused.

Godblast KO's DS. If it sent Galactus fleeing for his life, DS is definitely getting hurt.

How durable is WW Aegis shield? is it as durable as say Juggernauts shield?

OE never sent Galactus fleeing for his life...

I'm not about to compare anything to Juggernaut in order to somehow feed your rabid Thor appetite. The Aegis shield is as invulnerable as invulnerable gets in comic books.

Originally posted by Validus
I'm not about to compare anything to Juggernaut in order to somehow feed your rabid Thor appetite. The Aegis shield is as invulnerable as invulnerable gets in comic books.

?

I was just asking how durable it was

Sure you were...

Originally posted by Validus
Sure you were...

Why do you insult me so?

You're thor?? Hell, I'm so thor I can hardly pith!

Originally posted by long pig
You're thor?? Hell, I'm so thor I can hardly pith!

That joke was in an old Sandman comic.

Originally posted by long pig
That joke was in an old Sandman comic.

I knew that




















































































Know I didn't

Neither did DC, so they came up with the worst retcon since Aunt May came back to life. I would say that Mjolnir would block the OE beams just like Wonder Woman blocked it with her bracelets in 'Girl From Krypton'... but apparently, those aren't the "real Omega Beams" and that wasn't the "real Darkseid."

BTW, this also isn't the "real OnedumbG0" posting and this isn't the "real KMC" but a figment of your imagination... which isn't the "real imagination" btw.

OneDumbG0 = hater of idiotic retcons

thor would win because hes a god and darkseid got face planted by dooms day

Darkseid is also a god

The OE can go through time and space, disappearing and reappearing inside a foe to erase them. It can pass through any barrier this way.
Thus Thor's hammer would do him no good anyway.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Darkseid is also a god is he?

Originally posted by harri
is he?
Yes

cool

do you like my new sig?

Rune King Thor could win this. Any other version would go down.

Originally posted by Rewmac
Rune King Thor could win this. Any other version would go down.

That in itself is debatable


Darksied wins.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I agree with alot of your post. But this sticks out to me. I thought all of Darkseids "low showings" were retconned to be his Avatars? If it's true I have no problems with this. Darkseid is supposed to be one of the top dogs.

the problem i have with the avatars are their 'convenience'. i want to see what the 'real' darkseid is capable of nowadays. retconning those losses to avatars is the same thing marvel did to thanos.

those types of retcons are crap.

and i agree with val -- actually a GREAT comparison val! -- if the bracelets can deflect it, the hammer definitely has a chance to absorb or block it.

and someone said that supes has something=godblast?

uh, no. least not imo. supes has nothing in his arsenal to trump a godblast, i'm afraid. unfettered heat vision is NOT a magical blast capable of driving away galactus . . .

thor >>>>>>>Darksied

Originally posted by leonidas
the problem i have with the avatars are their 'convenience'. i want to see what the 'real' darkseid is capable of nowadays. retconning those losses to avatars is the same thing marvel did to thanos.

those types of retcons are crap.

and i agree with val -- actually a GREAT comparison val! -- if the bracelets can deflect it, the hammer definitely has a chance to absorb or block it.

and someone said that supes has something=godblast?

uh, no. least not imo. supes has nothing in his arsenal to trump a godblast, i'm afraid. unfettered heat vision is NOT a magical blast capable of driving away galactus . . .

Originally posted by Validus
I'm not about to compare anything to Juggernaut in order to somehow feed your rabid Thor appetite. The Aegis shield is as invulnerable as invulnerable gets in comic books.

Originally posted by batdude123


What the ****'s so funny!!!!

Originally posted by leonidas
the problem i have with the avatars are their 'convenience'. i want to see what the 'real' darkseid is capable of nowadays. retconning those losses to avatars is the same thing marvel did to thanos.

those types of retcons are crap.The retcons are crap or Dakrseid jobbing is crap. Take your pick I guess.
Originally posted by leonidas

and i agree with val -- actually a GREAT comparison val! -- if the bracelets can deflect it, the hammer definitely has a chance to absorb or block it.True. But if it was a Avatar of seid the feat is useless.
Originally posted by leonidas

and someone said that supes has something=godblast?It wasn't me.
Originally posted by leonidas

uh, no. least not imo. supes has nothing in his arsenal to trump a godblast, i'm afraid. unfettered heat vision is NOT a magical blast capable of driving away galactus . . . I never said he did. You must be talking to somebody else. And wasn't G weakened when Thor sent him packing? Or is that a myth?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I never said he did. You must be talking to somebody else. And wasn't G weakened when Thor sent him packing? Or is that a myth?

When is he NOT weakened when he comes to Earth?

Originally posted by batdude123
When is he NOT weakened when he comes to Earth?

Good thing the fight wasn't on earth.

Originally posted by Soujaboy
Good thing the fight wasn't on earth.

kay.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
The retcons are crap or Dakrseid jobbing is crap. Take your pick I guess.
True. But if it was a Avatar of seid the feat is useless.
It wasn't me.
I never said he did. You must be talking to somebody else. And wasn't G weakened when Thor sent him packing? Or is that a myth?



sorry, snoop -- i certainly wasn't directing my points at you. i agree -- retcons or jobbing -- BOTH suck.

about the avatars: the very idea is sort of ridiculous. by definition, an avatar is a HUMAN representation/incarnation of a god (buddha is one of the avatars of vishnu, for example) ds is definitely NOT human. and if the avatar HAS the oe, why would IT be 'watered down'? it's either the oe, or it isn't.

i know no one has answers to these issues i've been raising, but they're just a couple of points that have always bugged me about darkseid and the way he is/has been, portrayed. if they had LEFT him as he had always been, and made the new gods direct descendents of the FIRST ever gods, i could understand WHY he would be more powerful than all the other pantheonic gods. as is, he is just . . . confusing.

cool, with SCADS of potential still, even after all these years. but confusing nevertheless.

The one reason i'll never buy that the Darky beaten in S/B was an avatar, was because Superman never would've went through the trouble of pulling him from the source wall.

oh, and i don't think there was any SPECIFIC mention that galactus was in a weakened state. he WAS preparing to feed, however, which leads us to believe that he certainly was nowhere near a high power level.

F*ck I gotta roll out. Smallvilles on b!tches.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
F*ck I gotta roll out. Smallvilles on b!tches.

You watch that

Originally posted by leonidas
the problem i have with the avatars are their 'convenience'. i want to see what the 'real' darkseid is capable of nowadays. retconning those losses to avatars is the same thing marvel did to thanos.

those types of retcons are crap.

Agreed. I'm sure there could have been another way of handling those situations for both characters. Marvel did it well with Thanos the first time. He died...fine...but then was ressurected in a more powerful body by death. Simple, it made sense and didn't damage any prior history to the character or his opponents.

Originally posted by leonidas
and i agree with val -- actually a GREAT comparison val! -- if the bracelets can deflect it, the hammer definitely has a chance to absorb or block it.

Honestly I see it as pears and oranges. It depends on what kind of blast. If Darky is simply laser blasting...then sure...I don't see any reason the hammer couldn't deflect or absorb it. If it's the real omega effect where things are removed from existence? Thor and Mjolnir are simply....gone.

Originally posted by leonidas
and someone said that supes has something=godblast?

Torquasm Vo.

Originally posted by leonidas
uh, no. least not imo. supes has nothing in his arsenal to trump a godblast, i'm afraid. unfettered heat vision is NOT a magical blast capable of driving away galactus . . .

The situations where godblasts and Vo have been used are remarkably similar. Particulary in the cases of Galan and Dominus.

On another note...if a godblast really scares galactus then Odin or Rune King Thor should be whoopin G's ass like no tomorrow...

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Agreed. I'm sure there could have been another way of handling those situations for both characters. Marvel did it well with Thanos the first time. He died...fine...but then was ressurected in a more powerful body by death. Simple, it made sense and didn't damage any prior history to the character or his opponents.I agree with this 100%. Thanos retconning was not a retconning. It didn't purport to up-end any preconceptions or history that had already been established. It turned Thanos into a badass and he's remained a badass to date. Darkseid... they made an excuse for his losing.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Honestly I see it as pears and oranges. It depends on what kind of blast. If Darky is simply laser blasting...then sure...I don't see any reason the hammer couldn't deflect or absorb it. If it's the real omega effect where things are removed from existence? Thor and Mjolnir are simply....gone.The OE Beam description that removes objects from existence is taken from the depiction of the avatars' powers, since purportedly, their appearances and words and thoughts are all that we know. The avatars' OE Beams can't destroy WW bracelets, they shouldn't destroy Mjolnir. But apparently, we don't know what the real OE Beams can do, since we've never actually seen them in action. How preposterous.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
The situations where godblasts and Vo have been used are remarkably similar. Particulary in the cases of Galan and Dominus.

On another note...if a godblast really scares galactus then Odin or Rune King Thor should be whoopin G's ass like no tomorrow... I thought T-Vo can only be used when his opponent either challenges or steps into Superman's mental plane. From the scans I've seen, Superman cannot force an opponent into T-Vo. Or can he? If he can, I'd like to see a scan of him forcing opponents into T-Vo. I know once they're in, they can't get out, but I'm pretty sure if someone just doesn't step into the mental plane, T-Vo is useless. I think godblast only drives off superweak Galactus, but yeah, Odinforce and RKT brought to bear on superweak Galactus? Overkill.

the only way thor wins this one is if he's facing jobberseid that supes beat up. If we are talking about the real darkseid the one who the devil prays to then thor is severly screwed.

Originally posted by h1a8
The OE can go through time and space, disappearing and reappearing inside a foe to erase them. It can pass through any barrier this way.
Thus Thor's hammer would do him no good anyway.


Darkseid wins

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind Honestly I see it as pears and oranges. It depends on what kind of blast. If Darky is simply laser blasting...then sure...I don't see any reason the hammer couldn't deflect or absorb it. If it's the real omega effect where things are removed from existence? Thor and Mjolnir are simply....gone.

how do we know he wasn't trying to make supes and ww . . . disappear from existence? the way the oe have been portrayed recently lead me to believe there is at least an even chance mjollnir can block or absorb them.



grr . . . i hate t-vo. g also has enormous tp abilities himself so perhaps he could defend himself against it. given the pis nature of t-vo i suppose supes could use it, but . . . it still doesn't nor will it ever sit very well with me i'm afraid . . .



i agree. odin's power, because he is simply a 'skyfather', is often terribly underrated though he probably has more impressive feats in his history than galactus does. given the way g jobs to practically everyone, odin beating galactus would NOT be very surprising.

smallville is actually quite good

Originally posted by leonidas
how do we know he wasn't trying to make supes and ww . . . disappear from existence? the way the oe have been portrayed recently lead me to believe there is at least an even chance mjollnir can block or absorb them.

I can understand blocking the tracers...but the actual effect itself? Comparing Mjolnir to Diana's bracelets are completely apples and oranges.

Originally posted by leonidas
grr . . . i hate t-vo. g also has enormous tp abilities himself so perhaps he could defend himself against it. given the pis nature of t-vo i suppose supes could use it, but . . . it still doesn't nor will it ever sit very well with me i'm afraid . . .

Dominus creates multiple realities out of thoughts. I doubt Big G can compare to that. Plus I doubt he would try and defend himself from it anymore than he tried to defend himself from Thor's godblast.

Maybe Terry Bogard could have power geysered Galactus into submission as well.

Originally posted by leonidas
i agree. odin's power, because he is simply a 'skyfather', is often terribly underrated though he probably has more impressive feats in his history than galactus does. given the way g jobs to practically everyone, odin beating galactus would NOT be very surprising.

Thor is basically a herald to Odin...Mjolnir being a conduit of sorts for Odins power... so directly then Odin should be able to do a lot worse to Big G.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I thought T-Vo can only be used when his opponent either challenges or steps into Superman's mental plane. From the scans I've seen, Superman cannot force an opponent into T-Vo. Or can he? If he can, I'd like to see a scan of him forcing opponents into T-Vo. I know once they're in, they can't get out, but I'm pretty sure if someone just doesn't step into the mental plane, T-Vo is useless. I think godblast only drives off superweak Galactus, but yeah, Odinforce and RKT brought to bear on superweak Galactus? Overkill.

He forced Lois Lane, Luthor, a Superman robot, and Dominus into it all at the same time.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
He forced Lois Lane, Luthor, a Superman robot, and Dominus into it all at the same time. You seem to know a lot about T-Vo. I've seen scans, but not much by way of context. Can you give me your "Torquasm-Vo for Dummies" lesson? Like, history, when and how he's used it... If you provide scans or links, you get extra brownies too.

Originally posted by leonidas
the only problem i have with what lord s said above is that while the omega effect is obviously famously powerful and generally considered to be 'unstoppable', i've never understood WHY it is so powerful. there is no apparent tie to the source (unless recently shown . . .??)


It's the "dark side" of The Source's energies. This has been stated a few times.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I can understand blocking the tracers...but the actual effect itself? Comparing Mjolnir to Diana's bracelets are completely apples and oranges.


WW blocked a heat blast that he was sending at Superman to turn him to "less" than the "ash" he thought they'd turned Supergirl to. Mjolnor could block a heat blast since it can block Odin's blasts. But if he turned the beams to wipeout and set them on the hammer, I don't think it could resist.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
He forced Lois Lane, Luthor, a Superman robot, and Dominus into it all at the same time. He also used a diff. form of it against Adversary. Advesary didn't even know he was using it.

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
It's the "dark side" of The Source's energies. This has been stated a few times.

if you could name one place in one book somewhere, it'd be much appreciated.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I can understand blocking the tracers...but the actual effect itself? Comparing Mjolnir to Diana's bracelets are completely apples and oranges.

only in that the bracers are KNOWN for their defensive abilities. thor's hammer is known for its offense, but it has blocked, handled and absorbed almost every type of power in the MU. or thor could perhaps simply absorb seid's life force, ala loki and the space vamp.



meh, i don't know enough about dominus (haven't read the arcs) to have this debate with you -- maybe t-vo is a match for godblast, i don't know. i do know i dislike the convenience of the ability and that i would love to see some sort of 'official' explanation for what it is.



i've said that many times. odin can do a lot to a LOT of people. his high feats are pretty ridiculous. he has low ones though that hurt him.

as for the whole 'wiping out' effect of the oe -- when's the last time he used that ability on anyone of substance? the oe has taken a big downward dip in recent years. it didn't bother supes (even when it HAS hit him) it didn't get past the bracers, it didn't kill doomsday and even in that silly xover, it did nothing to galactus.

i still say this fight is pretty damn even.

T-Vo explanation and scans please. One of you guys must have it. I could have sworn a person had to step into the mental plane of combat first, kind of like how Professor X, Jean Grey and Cable used to go to that... err... crap. Forgot what it was...

....

....

God dammit. This is going to annoy me all day now. Psi-something? Psychic plane? It isn't Astral Plane...

What are you guys not getting here?

The OE can go through time and space, disappearing and reappearing inside a foe to erase them. It can pass through any barrier this way.
Thus Thor's hammer would do him no good anyway if Darkseid uses the best of his abilities.

Originally posted by leonidas
only in that the bracers are KNOWN for their defensive abilities. thor's hammer is known for its offense, but it has blocked, handled and absorbed almost every type of power in the MU. or thor could perhaps simply absorb seid's life force, ala loki and the space vamp.

I doubt Thor could suck out the lifeforce of a being in a class higher than he is in. For example...I doubt he could pull that off on Odin, Zeus, Galactus, or Darkseid.

Darky had no problem getting rid of Thor and the rest of the league/Avengers in their xover with the beams.

Originally posted by leonidas
meh, i don't know enough about dominus (haven't read the arcs) to have this debate with you -- maybe t-vo is a match for godblast, i don't know. i do know i dislike the convenience of the ability and that i would love to see some sort of 'official' explanation for what it is.

What more is there to know? Supes sucks you into an arena of his own creation and you don't have a choice. While in there he has reality control and access to your powerset.

He's also used it to enhance his defense to things, project illusions, heal, and overload synapses.

The godblast is...a magical blast.

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
WW blocked a heat blast that he was sending at Superman to turn him to "less" than the "ash" he thought they'd turned Supergirl to. Mjolnor could block a heat blast since it can block Odin's blasts. But if he turned the beams to wipeout and set them on the hammer, I don't think it could resist.

Agreed.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
He also used a diff. form of it against Adversary. Advesary didn't even know he was using it.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I doubt Thor could suck out the lifeforce of a being in a class higher than he is in. For example...I doubt he could pull that off on Odin, Zeus, Galactus, or Darkseid.

a darkseid avatar is no where near those levels.



so he could t-vo spectre or asmodel and get their powers and beat them both just like that? i don't think so, avy . . . t-vo is still too unproven for me so i don't factor it in when i consider superman battles. his normal powerset is plenty deep enough. arguing t-vo is like debating superman prime -- too much unknown to really be a valid and proveable point. at least based on what little i've seen of it.



but a damn powerful one.

Originally posted by leonidas
a darkseid avatar is no where near those levels.

Neither is Thor. The official time that they met though, it was obvious which was the more powerful one...and it wasn't Thor.

Originally posted by leonidas
so he could t-vo spectre or asmodel and get their powers and beat them both just like that? i don't think so, avy . . . t-vo is still too unproven for me so i don't factor it in when i consider superman battles. his normal powerset is plenty deep enough. arguing t-vo is like debating superman prime -- too much unknown to really be a valid and proveable point. at least based on what little i've seen of it.

I never said T-vo gives Superman an instant win over beings on those levels. I said it was a trump card like a Godblast...just a more versatile one.

I wouldn't compare Superman to God's wrath or the general of his army and near conqueror of heaven anyway. He hasn't been shown to use it on those levels.

Apparently...Cosmic beings ARE susceptible to it. There's quite a difference.

Originally posted by leonidas
but a damn powerful one.

It's still just a blast.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Neither is Thor. The official time that they met though, it was obvious which was the more powerful one...and it wasn't Thor.

hmm, supes et al., didn't fare too well against a certain darkseid knock-off either. should we look too closely at that particular book . . .?



but that's how it sounds, avy. and that's why i dislike it. we don't know its limits (it seems limitless based on your descriptions and the times you bring it up in debates) so if we don't know its limits how can we argue fairly for OR against it? which is why is generally simply disregard it until it becomes more proven or at least until such time as a limit is demonstrated regarding it.



nor would i. but galactus is a different matter. g may not be spectre and maybe not asmodel (at least not at the levels we're discussing) but he's in that high cosmic class. could supes t-vo odin? darkseid? who knows because we've not seen it's limits. but just because we've not seen a limit (HAS it failed??) doesn't mean we can blankly state it can be used to defeat a high level cosmic like galactus or those i mentioned above.



but a really powerful one.

Can you show me scans or links of the context of T-Vo. Let me be clear, I don't want self-proclaimed statements, I want to see where Superman forces people into T-Vo. I also want to see if it was a one time thing, because he should have used it against SPB, surely would have been easier.

Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, supes et al., didn't fare too well against a certain darkseid knock-off either. should we look too closely at that particular book . . .?

In a recent book? Show and tell. I've seen the old stuff.

Originally posted by leonidas
but that's how it sounds, avy. and that's why i dislike it. we don't know its limits (it seems limitless based on your descriptions and the times you bring it up in debates) so if we don't know its limits how can we argue fairly for OR against it? which is why is generally simply disregard it until it becomes more proven or at least until such time as a limit is demonstrated regarding it.

That's why I normally keep it within the limits of herald based characters if I'm debating it seriously.

Originally posted by leonidas
nor would i. but galactus is a different matter. g may not be spectre and maybe not asmodel (at least not at the levels we're discussing) but he's in that high cosmic class. could supes t-vo odin? darkseid? who knows because we've not seen it's limits. but just because we've not seen a limit (HAS it failed??) doesn't mean we can blankly state it can be used to defeat a high level cosmic like galactus or those i mentioned above.

You're pretty high level when you can "delete" beings from existence altogether...and for all intents and purposes that is what Superman used it against.

To this point it hasn't failed him BUT it doesn't give him an instant win against high level opponents. Maybe that is what people are burning about?

If that is the case, once again I'll state it.
It's NOT an instant win against Skyfather and up opponents.
It IS very handy against herald levelers and below.

Originally posted by leonidas
but a really powerful one.

It would tickle SBP.

Yarrrrrrrrr! Someone give me scans and context and explanation of T-Vo, please!!!!

Bump. I now know about T-Vo. But apparently, this thread was grappling with the idea that the Darkseid that got his OE deflected by Wonder Woman's bracelets was an avatar. Which we now know is untrue. Also, the thread starter is focusing on how either opponent would take the other's strongest blast, i.e. Omega Effect or Godblast (or even Antiforce Blast - absorbing opponent's energy and amplifying it back at them). Discuss.

Originally posted by leonidas


sorry, snoop -- i certainly wasn't directing my points at you. i agree -- retcons or jobbing -- BOTH suck.

about the avatars: the very idea is sort of ridiculous. by definition, an avatar is a HUMAN representation/incarnation of a god (buddha is one of the avatars of vishnu, for example) ds is definitely NOT human. and if the avatar HAS the oe, why would IT be 'watered down'? it's either the oe, or it isn't.

you're ignorant an Avatat is ANY manifestation of a trancendant being in the mortal REALM.

Therefore, the idea that the portrayals of Darksied up to date have been mere avatars is ENTIRELY consistent with the meaning of the term.

He isn't and never hads been. He is kore powerful than any other Gods, but he's never been the most powerful God. Highfather is his equal, and Orion has his number in physical combat.

Darkseid 7/10.

If Wonder Woman hadn't deflected the true Omega Effect... I would lean towards Darkseid also. As it stands... a skyfather artifact easily deflected the beams and Mjolnir is one of the penultimate skyfather artifacts in comics and has absorbed/deflected an impressive number of energy sources.

Originally posted by panthergod
He isn't and never hads been. He is kore powerful than any other Gods, but he's never been the most powerful God. Highfather is his equal, and Orion has his number in physical combat. Relevant... two years ago.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If Wonder Woman hadn't deflected the true Omega Effect... I would lean towards Darkseid also. As it stands... a skyfather artifact easily deflected the beams and Mjolnir is one of the penultimate skyfather artifacts in comics and has absorbed/deflected an impressive number of energy sources. I agree that thors hammer would deflect the omega beams as well.

I think there's a clear difference between the beams Darkseid shot at Supes that were deflected by Wonder Woman and his omega effect, which by all accounts cannot be stopped by any physical barrier, the OE is supposed to be able to pass through dimensions or any physical barrier to erase or transport it's target.

So I get confused when WW's bracelets can even affect the path of the beams when Darkseid is projecting the OE.

edit: So unless they retconned the abilities of the OE I don't think Mjolnir is stopping the OE.

Originally posted by Allankles
I think there's a clear difference between the beams Darkseid shot at Supes that were deflected by Wonder Woman and his omega effect, which by all accounts cannot be stopped by any physical barrier, the OE is supposed to be able to pass through dimensions or any physical barrier to erase or transport it's target.

So I get confused when WW's bracelets can even affect the path of the beams when Darkseid is projecting the OE.

edit: So unless they retconned the abilities of the OE I don't think Mjolnir is stopping the OE. His Omega Effect got deflected by Superman's heat vision. And in that instance, he clearly called it "Omega Effect." In Superman/Batman #13, he commented that his "Omega Beams" would reduce Superman to less than ashes, which is consistent with the description of the Omega Effect. It's clearly been nerfed as time goes on, but someone else just mentioned that his Omega Effect got rerouted by Firestorm. I mean... I didn't read that comic... but yeesh.

Even if Thor deflects his beams though, what then?

Hit him in the face with his hammer

Jobberseid FTW

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Even if Thor deflects his beams though, what then? Maybe deflect it back into his face. I'd suspect though that he'd absorb it into Mjolnir, amplify its energies a hundredfold and then fire it back as an Antiforce blast:

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6527/antiforceblast01xc1.th.jpg http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/9375/antiforceblast02sv0.th.jpg http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/6091/antiforceblast03wy4.th.jpg

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Maybe deflect it back into his face. I'd suspect though that he'd absorb it into Mjolnir, amplify its energies a hundredfold and then fire it back as an Antiforce blast:

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6527/antiforceblast01xc1.th.jpg http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/9375/antiforceblast02sv0.th.jpg http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/6091/antiforceblast03wy4.th.jpg A definite possibility.

Thor could get a win, but I don't know if it would happen in 10 fights.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
His Omega Effect got deflected by Superman's heat vision. And in that instance, he clearly called it "Omega Effect." In Superman/Batman #13, he commented that his "Omega Beams" would reduce Superman to less than ashes, which is consistent with the description of the Omega Effect. It's clearly been nerfed as time goes on, but someone else just mentioned that his Omega Effect got rerouted by Firestorm. I mean... I didn't read that comic... but yeesh.

I can't be sure but wasn't that feat explained as being Superman being protected by the Source? I can't remember, but I think there was some story about Superman being given some immunity from the OE by the Source or something along those lines, I'll confirm later. If that's not the case then the OE has certainly been retconned.