The Declaration of Independence Mentions God!

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FeceMan
Therefore, if our country isn't based on the belief that there is a Creator, people lack unalienable rights.

stick out tongue

(Go, JIA, go!)

lil bitchiness
Yeah, but our creator - which we can prove and see is the Earth and the Universe...so creator don't necesseraly mean a sadistic deity.

Shakyamunison

DigiMark007
It's a freaking saying....it only means as much as you let it mean. All the controversy about it is stupid. When I was Christian, and even now when I'm not, it didn't mean a whole lot to me.

If you're secure in your beliefs, it shouldn't really do much to alter you life.

FeceMan
*Rolls eyes.*

The reference clearly is to God--or, at the very least, some "higher power"--and there's no denying it.

See, the problem is that you...did...things...

*Sighs.*

Nevermind.

PVS
the universe is a higher power.
nowhere is it implied that the 'creator' is an intelligent being...just a creator....of....stuff

Capt_Fantastic
I'd direct you to several threads where I've mentioned Thomas Jefferson agreeing with Jesus' perspective on human interaction, but not subscribing to his divinity. And "Creator" is much different from "Jesus, son of God, founder of christianity, et al, market cornered, everyone else is wrong, seperation of church and state is a myth cooked up by liberals".

Alliance
To a deists and educated men of the 18th centruy like Jefferson at all, the creator meant nature...

...this is reinforced by

Originally posted by The Declaration of Independance
the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them

JacopeX
Originally posted by FeceMan
Therefore, if our country isn't based on the belief that there is a Creator, people lack unalienable rights.

stick out tongue

(Go, JIA, go!) big grin

King Kandy
The creater doesn't have to be god...

Alliance
To the founding fathers is was not god in the modern sense.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by PVS
the universe is a higher power.
nowhere is it implied that the 'creator' is an intelligent being...just a creator....of....stuff However "all men are created equal" would imply the Declaration specifically denies Iesus as a god among men.

Alliance
Good point.

xmarksthespot
On a side note, I'd be relatively disappointed if Feceman actually considered JIA a kindred, considering (at times at least) he's relatively pragmatic.

Alliance
Relatively. He certainly actually contributes to the forum.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
On a side note, I'd be relatively disappointed if Feceman actually considered JIA a kindred, considering (at times at least) he's relatively pragmatic.


he was only joking.

Imperial_Samura
"Their" creator - it is what I have said. The whole question of definite articles aside it is a personal thing and doesn't necessarily reflect that they meant "The Christian God with certain unalienable Rights..."

Sounds far more open to interpretation. Whatever force they consider higher then mere humans, be it God or Law or whatever, there are certain things that can not be taken away. Above human affairs.

Anyway, JIA will probably fail to see the joke since he argued most savagely in the other thread that that very line, because Creator has a capital "C" means that clearly they were referring to the Christian God.

office jesus
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
On a side note, I'd be relatively disappointed if Feceman actually considered JIA a kindred, considering (at times at least) he's relatively pragmatic.

Judging from his opening post, I think this was meant to poke fun at JIA.

FeceMan
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
he was only joking.
Originally posted by office jesus
Judging from his opening post, I think this was meant to poke fun at JIA.
No ****ing shit. You guys get cookies. Giant chocolate chip cookies for not being stupid.

office jesus
Originally posted by FeceMan
No ****ing shit. You guys get cookies. Giant chocolate chip cookies for not being stupid.

At least someone acknowledges that I'm not stupid. laughing laughing

Bardock42
I think "their creator" is a reference to King George III. That's then only way it makes sense.

Alliance
laughing I think they'd disagree.

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