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This is going to be a trial involving four of the greatest Force-users of all time. There will be three parts; after each part a contestant will be disqualified. The one that remains after the third trial will be declared the victor. To start off, we will choose the four starting contestants. Of the seven names I'm going to present, vote for two apiece whom you want voted OFF. The three of the seven with the most votes will be ejected; the four with the least votes will enter the contest.
CW Mace
Post-KOTOR Revan
ROTS Yoda
Exar Kun
NJO Luke
ROTS Sidious
Bane

This reminds me kinda of a thread I believe Janus made.

I want NJO Luke (he always win) and Exar Kun out.

Originally posted by Darth Godzilla
This is going to be a trial involving four of the greatest Force-users of all time. There will be three parts; after each part a contestant will be disqualified. The one that remains after the third trial will be declared the victor. To start off, we will choose the four starting contestants. Of the seven names I'm going to present, vote for two apiece whom you want voted OFF. The three of the seven with the most votes will be ejected; the four with the least votes will enter the contest.
CW Mace
Post-KOTOR Revan
ROTS Yoda
Exar Kun
NJO Luke
ROTS Sidious
Bane

Okay so we're voting for who ISN'T the strongest. I say CW Mace. That over powered SOB. The movie Mace is hella cool but I didn't like the CW Mace.

vote out bane and post kotor revan

Originally posted by Kadesh
vote out bane

^^ second person I want off

Votes for People Out:

NJO Luke- 1
Bane- 2
CW Mace- 1
Revan- 1
Exar Kun-1

NJO Luke and CW Bane.

Take out Kun

CW Bane?? WTF? Do you mean just Bane or CW Mace Dessel???

Votes for People Out:

NJO Luke- 2
Bane- 2
CW Mace- 1
Revan- 1
Exar Kun-2

Okay, I'm taking out NJO Luke, Bane, and Exar Kun- I'm surprised, but oh well. So we stand with the following: Mace, Revan, Yoda, and Sidious. The first trial shall commence.
PS- This was inspired by Janus' thread.

The First Trial
An Imperial warlord (we'll go with Grand Moff Tarkin) is planning a strike to wipe out both the Jedi and the Sith. He is developing anti-Force generators and a special weapon, called the Lightning Gun (I hope no one else has taken that name for anything), (which cannot be blocked by a lightsaber) in order to achieve that goal. The contestants must fight through dozens of passageways guarded by elite stormtroopers, kill all the technicians, kill Tarkin, and destroy the production plant by attacking the core.
PS- Tarkin is at the core, and guarded by ten troopers armed with the aforementioned weapons.
Each contestant takes this test individually.
WHO FAILS?

I think Sidious is out, although I want to hear some other points of view. Revan has proven adept at such situations, so he gets by. Windu is brilliant with a lightsaber, and does not rely on force powers. Yoda is small, and extremely fast, so he could probably get by the troopers. As for Sidious, I think it would be extremely difficult for him to reach the end due to his heavy reliance on the Force.

All four contestants are strong enough to do this. However, if you're asking who's last, then I go with Sidious because he doesn't seem move to run fast (see him in ROTS, he's pretty slow). So Sidious would die, because he's slow, not because he sucks or anything.

Does anyone protest to Sidious being kicked out? If not, we'll move on to part two.

sids is gone!

exar >>> all cept for sidious

um and Revan, and Yoda.

So, is Sidious out on this trial or what?

Wow, that was quick. Yeah, he's out.

NEXT TRIAL!

Okay, we have Mace, Yoda and Revan left. Next up:
Each contestant has been taken captive by a group of criminals. The crime boss has taken their lightsaber as a trophy. Each contestant starts in a holding cell, and must fight his way out. It is also required that they find and obtain their lightsaber. Each contestant attempts this alone.
PS- The criminals have made many enemies, including the Galactic Empire. Within ten minutes of the starting time, the base will be bombarded and flattened.
WHO'S OUT?

This is hard.

Yoda is capable of driving people unconscious and he can jump his through everyone.

Mace is super strong. He can fight his way to the saber.

Revan's killer with the Force. He can blast everyone in his path.

Dunno who wins though? Have to think about it later.

Mace. he wont stand up to constent blaster barrages without his lightsaber, at least not as well as who-am-i or mini-me.

Did CLONE WARS Mace not slaughter an entire army with just the force and his fists? This is CW Mace, not Rots meaning that he has the super over powered'ness that he ahs in the CW cartoon.

I don't know who goes out first.

Originally posted by Darth Godzilla
This is going to be a trial involving four of the greatest Force-users of all time. There will be three parts; after each part a contestant will be disqualified. The one that remains after the third trial will be declared the victor. To start off, we will choose the four starting contestants. Of the seven names I'm going to present, vote for two apiece whom you want voted OFF. The three of the seven with the most votes will be ejected; the four with the least votes will enter the contest.
CW Mace
Post-KOTOR Revan
ROTS Yoda
Exar Kun
NJO Luke
ROTS Sidious
Bane


Just to point out, ROTS Mace is more powerful than CW Mace.

Hope you realize that.

Also, ROTS Mace could do the same thing CW Mace can.

Technically, a bit better as well.

Originally posted by Darth Godzilla
Okay, we have Mace, Yoda and Revan left. Next up:
Each contestant has been taken captive by a group of criminals. The crime boss has taken their lightsaber as a trophy. Each contestant starts in a holding cell, and must fight his way out. It is also required that they find and obtain their lightsaber. Each contestant attempts this alone.
PS- The criminals have made many enemies, including the Galactic Empire. Within ten minutes of the starting time, the base will be bombarded and flattened.
WHO'S OUT?


Yoda can use Telekenisis through the Force and blast his cell door off its hinges.
Mace and Revan can also do the same, albeit with more difficulty.

Once all three are free, they can basicly toss people into walls as if they were rag dolls and also use Jedi Martial Arts to break their opponants down physically.

Also, If their assailants start using blasters against them, Yoda and Revan could simply use a technique of the Force power, Absorbtion.
The specific technique they would utilise within this power is "Force Redirection."

With this power, they would of course basicly be able to serve entire vollies of blaster-fire back into their source.
This means they woulden't have too hard a time with gunmen.

Also, with Yoda and Revan's respective hand speed, they would be able to protect themselves adeqately for as long as they would need to.

Now, with Mace this is more dubious.
Im not completely sure wether or not he has this ability as well.
I'd say its more likely he does, however, If he dosen't, then he'd simply use Force Speed to evade blaster-fire and take out his enemies with hand-to-hand combat.

All three would make it to their lightsabers one way or the other, and then, It's lights out for the bad guys.

They would also make it from the base.

Next Level?

Well Revan is the slowest here, but he's the best with the Force. Yoda DEFINATELY makes it. Mace, he can do it.

I would say it's between Revan and Mace, but I'm leaning toward Revan making it.

Originally posted by Darth Sexiest
Also, ROTS Mace could do the same thing CW Mace can.

Technically, a bit better as well.

Not really. I doubt RotS Mace cannot punch out an army of battle droids, and jump several miles. Leland Chee has stated that the CW cartoons are an exaggeration of the Jedi's powers due to the target audience of kids, so when it comes to the actual movies, and novels that aren't for children - it's a tad bit different, I'd say.

Yeah, the CW cartoon totally aggrandizes how powerful the PT jedi are. However it's still canon technically, so it should count.

Originally posted by Dessel
Yeah, the CW cartoon totally aggrandizes how powerful the PT jedi are. However it's still canon technically, so it should count.

The general storyline, perhaps, but I would not say the shit that Mace Windu does is canon in the sense that it would apply for RotS Windu, or rather just "movie/novel Windu".

Originally posted by Advent
Not really. I doubt RotS Mace cannot punch out an army of battle droids, and jump several miles. Leland Chee has stated that the CW cartoons are an exaggeration of the Jedi's powers due to the target audience of kids, so when it comes to the actual movies, and novels that aren't for children - it's a tad bit different, I'd say.


Yeah, ROTS Mace can do those things.

They diden't exactly make up crap for shits and giggles.

Originally posted by Darth Sexiest
Yeah, ROTS Mace can do those things.

They diden't exactly make up crap for shits and giggles.

Uh, yeah they did. They made it for the target audience of children.

If RotS Mace could do that, he'd have survived the fall from Palpatine considering he jumped several miles in one episode. Even being blasted by the lightning wouldn't stop CW Mace from what we've seen.

To get to the actual point: Leland Chee has stated that they are an aggrandizement of Jedi abilities, ergo it's not an accurate assumption to say their movie or novel counterparts can do the same.

"One other thing to keep in mind is that the target audience for the cartoons and the novels is different so they will each have a different approach to storytelling. As a result, certain action scenes and Jedi abilities sometimes will be exagerated in the cartoon..." (and yes, he did misspell "exaggerated".)

-- Leland Chee, EU Leadup topic.

From that it's pretty apparent that you could not say for definite that RotS Mace Windu can do the same as CW Mace. Punching out an entire army of battle droids with bare hands seems pretty exaggerated to me.

Originally posted by Advent
Punching out an entire army of battle droids with bare hands seems pretty exaggerated to me.


Its a Force power called Injure/Kill.

A bare-handed technique.

Yeah, It did look a bit over the top.

But, It's still canonical.

i got a force power for you. Force stfu/gtfo

Sexiest, are you serious or not?

Injure/Kill? No.

Over the top? Yes, therefore it's not correct to assume that RotS Mace can do that considering what Leland Chee stated about "amplified abilities". If it's exaggerated in the cartoon, that does not equate to their actual talent.

Yep, it's canon. But is it really factual???? Hell no!!! I'll be damned if Luminara and Bariss can hold a whole mountain of rock and debris with meditation.

Originally posted by Advent
Sexiest, are you serious or not?

Injure/Kill? No.

Yes.
Research your Force powers.




Over the top? Yes, therefore it's not correct to assume that RotS Mace can do that considering what Leland Chee stated about "amplified abilities". If it's exaggerated in the cartoon, that does not equate to their actual talent.
ROTS Mace is the shit. He can do that stuff.

And Duh, im serious.

Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Yep, it's canon. But is it really factual???? Hell no!!! I'll be damned if Luminara and Bariss can hold a whole mountain of rock and debris with meditation.

It wasen't a mountain, just peices of some boulders.

And together, they probally could.

Advent is biased against powerful people. Ignore her.

Originally posted by Blax X
Advent is biased against powerful people. Ignore her.

Yes, I'm totally bias. I hate anyone who is more powerful than Zett Jukassa.

Yes. you are.

Yep. I've never argued for Exar Kun, Luke, Sidious, Kyp, Ulic, Kyle, Yoda, Mace, Anakin, Dooku, or Jacen. Ever.

All those people are weak, except for Mace.

Your obviously biased.

My vote's for Mace out- Yoda almost definitely makes it, and Revan is a god with Force powers. Mace comes close to Revan, but without sabers, my money's on Revan.
If no one objects soon, I'm gonna move on to the next round.

I think Mace is out, since Yoda definitely is in and Revan is a god with F. powers. Not that Mace wouldn't make it, it'd just be hardest for him.
If no one objects, I'll move to the next round.

oops. I didn't mean to say it more than once.

I object. Strongly.

Mace makes it like the rest.

This wasen't hard enough for him...

Plus, I listed my reasons earlier, so review 'em If you need to.

Somebody's gotta be kicked out. Yoda can't be, and with Revan's mastery of the Force, I seriously doubt he can be. Mace is also pretty tough. So who's out? It has to be one of the three. I still think that Mace is the weakest link.

Since, current list involves these 3 powerful Jedi:

- Yoda
- Revan
- Mace

I think that "Mace" is actually the weakest link here when it comes to mastery in the force.

Both "Yoda" and "Revan" are very powerful force users or have vast knowledge of various force powers.

So, in terms of knowledge of force powers:

Yoda & Revan > Mace

So, Mace is out?

yep

Yeah, but this isen't good enough to kill him.

If the third Jedi had been Ki or Fisto, then perhps we could have done this weakest link thing.

But Mace (realistically) is simply too powerful to be stopped short by somthing like this.

Think about it.

Okay, the final trial. We now have two people whom you have decided to be two of the strongest Force-users of all time: Yoda and Revan.

A renegade Dark Lord of the Sith has found a powerful weapon from the times of the Ancient Sith. The contestant was trying to spy on the warlord when he was captured. He starts out in a large amphitheater, surrounded by Dark Jedi. He must kill them all before any one of them sounds the alarm, and then must battle the Dark Lord. (We'll put him on par with Darth Tyranus)
The problem is, the Dark Lord activates the weapon's self-destruct sequence, which will blow up the entire planet, once the contestant defeats all of the Dark Jedi. He only has fifteen minutes to find and kill the Dark Lord, and to deactivate the self-destruct sequence.
PS- The sequence is heavily encrypted. It will take some time to shut it down.

Sorry for those of you who didn't want Mace out. Somebody had to get killed, and he was the most likely (even though he wasn't likely at all).

Revan. He just knows the force well enough to take the dark jedi out in one foul swoop. yoda would have to saber them all and shit, when revan can use strorm and kill a few of the at once. he just would do it better.

Yoda when he was old and sick, took down dark jedi with the force alone, and he is a lightsider. When has Revan taken out people with one single sweep except for gameplay? And Yoda could defend against every dark side technique, and had a potential or was at least more powerful than ANYONE ever PRODUCED in the order, so I doubt he would fail to block Revan's force storms.

This isn't yoda vs revan though, this is different. I truly believe revan wins this.

Originally posted by kamikz
Yoda when he was old and sick, took down dark jedi with the force alone, and he is a lightsider. When has Revan taken out people with one single sweep except for gameplay? And Yoda could defend against every dark side technique, and had a potential or was at least more powerful than ANYONE ever PRODUCED in the order, so I doubt he would fail to block Revan's force storms.
Revan knows Force Storm, which can kill a large number of enemies in an instant.

And he did killed a large number of Rakatan warriors with Force Storm in a single attack on Lehon. This event was narrated by "The One" to him when he re-visited Lehon. So this is canon.

Also, Revan knows Force powers like "Master Force Jump", "Force Wave" and "Master Speed" and is a Saber prodigy and thus with these powers he can easily and quickly defeat large number of enemies (including Dark Jedi) in a short span of time.

So, he can easily fight like Yoda.

Revan wins here.

Oh, since when did he master those powers canonically? I've never seen a source to that.

Yoda was a prodgidy as well, actually he was the best in the order, where jedi were in their prime and there where OTHER saber prodgidies (Mace, Dooku) which Yoda also had defeated. Being a saber prodgidy isn't enough!

And knowing a force storm that killed some un-knowing, non-force sensetives isn't enough for me to belive Yoda will have a problem with it.

Originally posted by kamikz
And knowing a force storm that killed some un-knowing, non-force sensetives isn't enough for me to belive Yoda will have a problem with it.

THIS ISN'T YODA VS. REVAN! READ THE THIRD TRIAL!

I was arguing points others brought up, which was supposed to support their points in this thread, and Null, who brought up the point about Revan vs Yoda, so I have the right to disagree with him. (Though this is at this point the wrong thread to do it).
Honestly, who would give a damn anyway?

i didn't bring that point up at all. I think revan kills the dark jedi faster then yoda, the goes on and does better, kills the dark lord and turns off the computer.

Then I got it wrong. But I still don't really agree to that, but whatever.^

Originally posted by kamikz
Then I got it wrong. But I still don't really agree to that, but whatever.^
You need to understand that Revan fought against a huge army of Sith including many Dark Jedi on Star Forge.

To kill enemies in such large numbers, you have to be very strong in the force and quicker then your enemies can see you.

The powers that I have mentioned are actually very useful when fighting large number of enemies.

Now, Bioware did not needed to spoon-feed us in the game that what powers Revan would choose by default. That choice is ours!

You have to logically think that to kill enemies in such large numbers, your skills, abilities and powers should be un-matched.

And this is not Yoda vs Revan scenario but Revan was no less then Yoda in knowledge of the force.

And Yoda never defeated Dooku in combat.

I stand by my point. Revan has better chance to succeed in the mentioned challenge!

Revan and Yoda both can get past the enemies. However, Revan's superiority in the Force will help him out here. However, Yoda's skill with the lightsaber is definately greater than Revan's. I believe both of them will reach the encryption area at the same time. Revan will win because in KOTOR he's shown the skill to crack down heavy codes.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You need to understand that Revan fought against a huge army of Sith including many Dark Jedi on Star Forge.

To kill enemies in such large numbers, you have to be very strong in the force and quicker then your enemies can see you.

The powers that I have mentioned are actually very useful when fighting large number of enemies.

Now, Bioware did not needed to spoon-feed us in the game that what powers Revan would choose by default. That choice is ours!

You have to logically think that to kill enemies in such large numbers, your skills, abilities and powers should be un-matched.

And this is not Yoda vs Revan scenario but Revan was no less then Yoda in knowledge of the force.

And Yoda never defeated Dooku in combat.

I stand by my point. Revan has better chance to succeed in the mentioned challenge!


Can you tell me the size of that army? Revan also had team members with him.

And no, you don't need to be faster than they eye can see to defeat a large number of enemies, why would you? People have made that before, without being that fast. And you still haven't stated how you know those powers that Revan have is canon, if it is our choice then how would we know Revan's powers? It is our choice to give the Exile and Atton Rand powers to, but I doubt they'd have powers on par with Revan, we need proof!

Yoda did defeat Dooku, or would have, but he always escaped.


Revan was no less than Yoda in force knowledge? Lol? Yoda knew a defence to EVERY SINGLE dark side technique, and he knew every jedi technique, and had the most potential in the order (except Anakin) and was the strongest jedi to ever been produced in the order (Revan was also produced in the order). Please tell me how Revan could have the same force knowledge as Yoda.


And since when was he superior to Yoda in the force Prodigal?

Revan has shown extensive knowledge in the Force, knowing abilities such as Force Shield, Force Storm, Thought Bomb, etc. He taught Bane everything which made him strong. And as a Lightsider, Revan is more powerful than his Dark self. How can this be?

This is ONLY possibile if KOTOR is accurate. Think about it. You see Revan as this master of all these super-strong Dark Side techniques, and yet he is more powerful as the prodigal knight (hence my name lol).
Why? Because since Revan is canonically light, if you follow the Light Side as Revan, then you see him knowing mastery over all Light Side Force moves. Otherwise how can he be more powerful?

Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Revan has shown extensive knowledge in the Force, knowing abilities such as Force Shield, Force Storm, Thought Bomb, etc. He taught Bane everything which made him strong. And as a Lightsider, Revan is more powerful than his Dark self. How can this be?

This is ONLY possibile if KOTOR is accurate. Think about it. You see Revan as this master of all these super-strong Dark Side techniques, and yet he is more powerful as the prodigal knight (hence my name lol).
Why? Because since Revan is canonically light, if you follow the Light Side as Revan, then you see him knowing mastery over all Light Side Force moves. Otherwise how can he be more powerful?
Exactly my point!

You deserve respect! Sir!

You summed it all up very nicely!

Well kamikz! I think that you already got a good answer here!

And Kamikz, I did not had time to count the number of troops and Dark Jedi, that Revan faced on Star Forge but they were in hundreds and a good number of among them were powerful opponents.

Why thank you very much Legend! I always wondered if KOTOR was accurate in showing the Lightside powers Revan uses, and due to PoD, we're shown that. Revan's super as a Dark Lord, but deadly as a prodigal knight.

Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Revan has shown extensive knowledge in the Force, knowing abilities such as Force Shield, Force Storm, Thought Bomb, etc. He taught Bane everything which made him strong. And as a Lightsider, Revan is more powerful than his Dark self. How can this be?

This is ONLY possibile if KOTOR is accurate. Think about it. You see Revan as this master of all these super-strong Dark Side techniques, and yet he is more powerful as the prodigal knight (hence my name lol).
Why? Because since Revan is canonically light, if you follow the Light Side as Revan, then you see him knowing mastery over all Light Side Force moves. Otherwise how can he be more powerful?


Ok let me tell you something you might not have heard before! (Not saying it's accurate, just saying, to let you think about it).
What if this Revan we know of in POD, is actually Revan AFTER KOTOR. People will of course say, "but he was lightside at the end of KOTOR", but that doesn't make it impossible to fall again now does it?


And being more powerful than his dark self must mean he knows every single lightside technique? Ugh..... HOW? He could possibly have reached a better level of the force, he might have grown in potential during the time he ceased to be Darth Revan! It would be impossible for him in that time to learn all those techniques, he didn't even train for that long, he couldn't have learnt EVERY lightside technique. It's the same for Kyle Katarn. After he abandoned the force for 9 years after he had trained with it and all before, he once again picked it up to face Desann. Desann remarked that he was even more powerful than before, but that doesn't say Kyle learn't every single lightside technique on the way........



And SW Legend, Revan had company on the Star Forge, and you don't even know the accurate number of opponents. And for all we know, they could have snuck through!

Let me tell you something, at this point of time we can't say "What if, what if". We know 100% right now that after KOTOR, Revan is Light, and I stand by that.




1.) No, I did not say that. I said that if Revan becomes that powerful in KOTOR over what he was in PoD, then he likely must have had mastery over many of Light Side powers shown in KOTOR, like Valor, Shield, Master Speed, etc.

2.) You can't grow in potential, can you? Isn't your potential based on your Midi-Chlorian count? Aren't you born with a certain potential. Definition of potential:

Capable of being but not yet in existence; latent: a potential problem.

So it's what you could maximum become. Revan was probably only twenty-six or something during the Jedi Civil War. I doubt he reached his potential then. That's why in KOTOR he maxes out.

3.) Again, where did I say that he learnt every Force technique? Please re-consider. And Kyle, after not being in touch with the Force, was able to know Force Lightning, Choke, and other Force Light powers.

Don't blame me if the EU makes Revan look uber.



Wrong, only Revan goes through. KOTOR shows event properly as well. Otherwise I could say Malak had fifteen Dark Jedi with him (excluding the Jedi captives) to fight Revan. Stop the "what ifs".

Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Let me tell you something, at this point of time we can't say "What if, what if". We know 100% right now that after KOTOR, Revan is Light, and I stand by that.




1.) No, I did not say that. I said that if Revan becomes that powerful in KOTOR over what he was in PoD, then he likely must have had mastery over many of Light Side powers shown in KOTOR, like Valor, Shield, Master Speed, etc.

2.) You can't grow in potential, can you? Isn't your potential based on your Midi-Chlorian count? Aren't you born with a certain potential. Definition of potential:

Capable of being but not yet in existence; latent: a potential problem.

So it's what you could maximum become. Revan was probably only twenty-six or something during the Jedi Civil War. I doubt he reached his potential then. That's why in KOTOR he maxes out.

3.) Again, where did I say that he learnt every Force technique? Please re-consider. And Kyle, after not being in touch with the Force, was able to know Force Lightning, Choke, and other Force Light powers.

Don't blame me if the EU makes Revan look uber.



Wrong, only Revan goes through. KOTOR shows event properly as well. Otherwise I could say Malak had fifteen Dark Jedi with him (excluding the Jedi captives) to fight Revan. Stop the "what ifs".



But you DON'T know if the quotes from POD is before or after, you don't have any proof. It might as well have been after, since we don't had any info about Revan making such things and learning such techniques so quickly. Wouldn't it be more logical to assume he did it after, since Revan actually picked up alot of Ancient Sith holocrons and such DURING his time on Korriban, and it was ancient sith techniques he used in POD.


1. Let me quote you, "Because since Revan is canonically light, if you follow the Light Side as Revan, then you see him knowing mastery over all Light Side Force moves. Otherwise how can he be more powerful?". It would be pretty obvious why I got your points wrong if I did. ^


Sorry, what I mean't was that I think he got more in tune with his powers, like Anakin grows more and more for every day that passes kinda.


3. ^
And do we really know if Kyle knows those powers? He knew grip, but so did Anakin at once, and Luke as well. It's kinda just to use the force to squeeze their throats. Lightning I've never seen him use in a video, and it would be really weird if Kyle actually did know lightning with no traning of it, since not even Maul did that, and he was trained by the greatest sith lord personally for nearly 20 years. Mind trick he did know, but that is just to influence the weak minded with the force, and heal doesn't work the way it does in jedi outcast, you cannot use heal like that.....



Didn't the game make you go through it with companions? Well either way we don't know how many nor how powerful those guards were, and we do know that it is possible he had a stealth belt.

Wasn't a Star Map on Korriban? And didn't Revan and Malak search for the Star Maps? Seriously, he could have easily gotten one when he visited Korriban. Yes, we don't know, but we can't go to ridiculous statements like "oh he made his holocron after KOTOR" because that doesn't work out. That's just like me saying Krayt is Jacen or Ben will Jacen or something like that. We can't make something up. So please give up this section of your argument.



I meant KOTOR, where you see Revan being a master of the Light. What else did you think I meant?



Actually, we see Quinlan Vos (the best character in Star Wars) being able to use Lightning against Volfe Karkko due to his hatred towars him. We know Kyle uses anger (he is a Gray Jedi), especially in Outcast so yes he knows Lightning.

And so what if Maul couldn't use Lightning? Take Scout from Dark Rendezvous. Jai Maruk didn't believe she had a strong Force connection, but she potent in the lightsaber. The same could be said for Maul, and maybe because Sidious didn't bother training Maul in the Force, but actually in the lightsaber.

Anyway, for this trial, I put my money on Revan to win.

Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Wasn't a Star Map on Korriban? And didn't Revan and Malak search for the Star Maps? Seriously, he could have easily gotten one when he visited Korriban. Yes, we don't know, but we can't go to ridiculous statements like "oh he made his holocron after KOTOR" because that doesn't work out. That's just like me saying Krayt is Jacen or Ben will Jacen or something like that. We can't make something up. So please give up this section of your argument.



I meant KOTOR, where you see Revan being a master of the Light. What else did you think I meant?



Actually, we see Quinlan Vos (the best character in Star Wars) being able to use Lightning against Volfe Karkko due to his hatred towars him. We know Kyle uses anger (he is a Gray Jedi), especially in Outcast so yes he knows Lightning.

And so what if Maul couldn't use Lightning? Take Scout from Dark Rendezvous. Jai Maruk didn't believe she had a strong Force connection, but she potent in the lightsaber. The same could be said for Maul, and maybe because Sidious didn't bother training Maul in the Force, but actually in the lightsaber.


So we are just going to say that because he was a sith lord before and we don't know if he was one later, he must have made that holocron before the KOTOR times? I would like to say "abscence of proof is not...", you know, but I will have respect for you and stop!



"Mastery over ALL lightside force moves" makes me belive that the point your making is " he know's every lightside move", which was the one I'm arguing against. And that's why I got it wrong if I did.


I wonder why Sidious would have picked him up if his potential wasn't good, and why wouldn't Sidious train him in the force? That would be pretty dumb since he was to become the perfect sith warrior.
And either way, even if Kyle knew lightning and grip, then he probably knew those techniques before he went on the 9 years exile thing, so maybe he remembered, so no real improvement in techniques there anyway. He was just stronger than he was before, no real explenation other than that, same with Revan.


And the main point we were arguing was that Yoda had more force knowledge than Revan, which was the one you were originally trying to refute wasn't it? Well then you MUST be arguing that Revan knows all lightside techniques, which your gonna have to prove. And I still don't see how Revan could ever hope to beat Yoda in the force. Yoda who knew every single light and dark technique, a defence for the dark, and he knew all the lightside ones.

Well if you want to argue this, be my guest. It's just that we can't say he does make the holocron in the future, because that's making stuff up.



My bad then. Sorry.




I didn't quite mean it like that. I meant that he trained Maul in the lightsaber and then proceed onto the Force. It's the only explanation.



Prove that Yoda knows every Light and Dark Force move. Revan has shown incredible mastery in the Light, and KOTOR shows this. PoD shows this as well because Revan is a killer master of the Dark, and for him to be even more powerful by POST-KOTOR, he would have to be a master of every Light Side move KOTOR grants him. Only logical explanation.

Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Well if you want to argue this, be my guest. It's just that we can't say he does make the holocron in the future, because that's making stuff up.



My bad then. Sorry.




I didn't quite mean it like that. I meant that he trained Maul in the lightsaber and then proceed onto the Force. It's the only explanation.



Prove that Yoda knows every Light and Dark Force move. Revan has shown incredible mastery in the Light, and KOTOR shows this. PoD shows this as well because Revan is a killer master of the Dark, and for him to be even more powerful by POST-KOTOR, he would have to be a master of every Light Side move KOTOR grants him. Only logical explanation.



Now, nothing says that it was actually before that Revan learn't all this (other than him being a sith of course, which we don't know if he was afterwards), and when did he have time to make holocrons and such, and his theories about the sith and all that? Didn't he have other things to do, and especially learning all about the ancient sith, when there clearly was things left for him to pick up when he travelled to Korriban during the KOTOR time.
I have some questions then, might clearify things for me....

How long did Malak and Revan disappear from the republic?
What did they do then?
They were in unkown regions weren't they?




Nah it's cool m8.



Oh, well that makes sense.



It was stated in a source book, can't remember on top of my head, I'll ask around if anyone knows which one. Sorry...

But still, Yoda's experience>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Revan's experience, and we don't know their midichlorian counts, but Yoda was the greatest jedi ever (stated in G-canon material, which actually mean's he was greater than Revan was as a jedi), stronger than anyone the order had produced (and Revan was produced by the order), and being able to stalemate (kinda) the most powerful sith lord in history. I'd say that's enough for me to put him above Revan's force knowledge and power.

He was gone for several years, but he and Malak went in pursuit of the Star Maps. On Korriban, they found holocrons where Revan made his.



Well probably you are right. However, experience doesn't always matter. Look what happened to Dooku compared to Anakin. Unless ROTS Yoda IS NOT Yoda in his prime, then I would agree Yoda > Revan. Revan has showed more Force moves than Yoda, all whom we have seen is a Force Push and likewise.

That's true, experience doesn't mean secured victory, not nearly, but it is an advantage nontheless. But I don't think Revan has shown nearly any force powers as far as I know of, well the sith ones were impressive, but as said before, Yoda had defences for nearly all techniques, and his power in the force was unmatched by all except the most powerful sith in history, who stalemated him. (Who actually was weaker than Yoda, it was explained that Yoda with the dark side would annihilate Sidious).

But whatever, I will be gone for a while, so I probably won't have time to debate much more, so we might just continue to have seperate opinions about this. It doesn't matter for me at least...

If you can kamikz, please tell me the source where you got the information that Yoda has every defence and knows all Force moves. Otherwise, I cannot say who's better in the Force: Revan or Yoda. But I agree, both are equal pretty much in the Force so it doesn't matter. Don't worry, we can debate this anytime later.

So much mis information about Revan in this thread....

Revan most likely made his holocron BEFORE his redemption:

Unbeknownst to the Jedi Order, DARTH REVAN has discovered numerous Sith artifacts and holocrons, all stored in great tomb-like cities buried beneath Malachor V's surface. As Revan plundered these tombs and relics, he fell deeper into the Dark Side.

Revan knew he had discovered more than a staging area for the Mandalorian War - he had discovered an ancient, planet-sized Sith storehouse of knowledge. He had discovered a world that held one purpose - to teach and train others in the ways of the Sith.

The Chronicles

Now Revan while he disappeared from the Republic
(which was only a year 3960 BBY when the Mando wars end, 3959 BBY when Revan returns) he most likely made the holocron on Lehon, because its illogical to go "what if..." when we already have a given.

Now I want to challenge that Yoda has more overall knowledge of the force then Revan, Lightside I'd agree Yoda trumps Revan, but Dark Side knowledge? No. Especially when Revan has a planet sized warehouse of Dark Side knowledge, has the relics he stole from Korriban, has spoken with lords like Ajunta Pall.


And Revan was likely 22 - 23 during the Jedi Civil War.

1 question, how credible are the chronicles? It's just that they've been known to contradict stroyline from the actual game.

That was a good summary ACStyles. However, the part of Yoda being better than Revan in the Force has attracted my attention. Revan has showed mastery of many moves in the Light. Yoda we have seen is able to do Force Whirlwind, Force Reflect, Telekinesis, Force Pull, Force Valor, and Master Speed. Revan knows most of the Light Side moves in KOTOR, like Master Speed, Master Shield, Force Valor, Lightning, etc. Of course, if there was a source that said "Yoda is the greatest" then I'll concede that Revan is more worse in the Force.

Not that I strongly disagree or anything, but out of curiosity, how did you get these numbers?

I can agree with the "Revan did it before" part now.

But it WAS stated in the novelisation that Yoda was the most powerful jedi ever, so that tops Revan! It says that during the fight with Sidious.

And I'm so pissed that I can't get the source book that says it, I'm really sorry for this. I'll bring this up if I find it someday, but having 800 years of studying I would say it is logical to assume that he has mastered most techniques, when people not near half his age (or at his potential either) has mastered most techniques. Yoda also knows the path to immortality which is something that was figured out during his time, so I doubt anyone else have that force knowledge except for Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon. (And some else)
It was stated in dark rendezvous that Yoda when utilizing the dark side would annhiliate Sidious (who was stated to be THE most powerful sith), so it is pretty safe to assume that Yoda has damn much dark side knowledge.

Wrong, if Yoda turned to the Dark, then he could annhilate Sidious. Yoda doesn't know the Dark, he's purely Light. If he was to turn to the Dark Side, then he coudl annhilate Sidious. But Yoda is a champion of the Light Side.

That was only what Dooku thought, hardly gospel. And that was ROTS Sidious, not DE.

Wait, I don't get what you are saying. Yes, if Yoda went to the dark side and actually used dark side techniques, he would annhilate Sidious, is that what you mean? Man I'm confused!



Actually, didn't Dooku have a "vision", not a "thought"? I don't remember...

Oh, if it was a vision then I take back what I said. I always heard that it was a thought or something.

I am saying that if Yoda fell to the Dark Side, he would have been so powerful that he would have annihilted Sidious (which is hard to imagine).

Just for future reference, the quote from Dark Rendezvous:

"At this moment Yoda turned, and Dooku gasped. Whether it was the play of the holomonitors, beaming their views of bleak space and distant battles, or some other trick of the light, Yoda's face was deeply hidden in the shadows, mottled black and blue, so that for one terrible instant he looked exactly like Darth Sidious. Or rather, it was Yoda as he might have been, or could yet become: a Yoda gone rotten, a Yoda whose awesome powers had been utterly unleashed by his connection to the dark side. In a flash Dooku saw how foolish he had been, trying to urge the old Master to the dark side. If Yoda ever turned that way, Sidious himself would be annihilated. The universe had yet to comprehend the kind of evil that a Jedi Knight of nearly nine hundred years could wield."

-- Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, Chapter 11.

Damn, Darth Yoda seems quite impressive.

Yup, that's why I made the speculation thread "darth Yoda vs DE Sidious", which no one answered on.


Oh, someone did!

Originally posted by kamikz

But it WAS stated in the novelisation that Yoda was the most powerful jedi ever, so that tops Revan! It says that during the fight with Sidious.



Was Post-KOTOR Revan even an official Jedi? I mean, sure, Mand. Wars Revan was, but, as Revan (not Kaiser Soze, or whateverthehe11 you chose to call yourself in KOTOR) himself, did he ever truly return to the order?


BORAT RULES!!!!!!!!!!