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Lightsabre battle. Takes place on the Invisible Hand bridge.

Dooku. Watch RoTS.

Dooku curbstomps him

Obi-Wan's defense would make things difficult, but Dooku would easily dominate the fight, and would eventually win.

Beware, though. Prodigal has made the most stupid debate ever (I'm not joking) where he firmly believes that Obi-Wan is on par with Dooku.

Originally posted by Escape81
Obi-Wan's defense would make things difficult, but Dooku would easily dominate the fight, and would eventually win.

Beware, though. Prodigal has made the most stupid debate ever (I'm not joking) where he firmly believes that Obi-Wan is on par with Dooku.

Don't bait him, Escape.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
Don't bait him, Escape.

I'm not baiting him, Rocas.

Harsh, man.

Originally posted by Escape81
I'm not baiting him, Rocas.

If you make fun of them, they will come.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
If you make fun of them, they will come.

I'm not making fun of him, Rocas. He's not stupid. But that particular argument is.

Originally posted by Escape81
I'm not making fun of him, Rocas. He's not stupid. But that particular argument is.

If you disprove their argument, they will come.

Better?

Originally posted by Escape81
Obi-Wan's defense would make things difficult, but Dooku would easily dominate the fight, and would eventually win.

As a matter of fact, yes I have. And if you had read my argument, I wouldn't say it's ridiculous, just maybe slightly perplexing.

@ Rocas




Ah, so the loser decides to take advantage of my so-called ridiculous argument by calling me "them" and saying I follow bait.

Apparently man, you don't know how to even debate. Don't talk at all. Words come out like shit out of your stinking mouth. You make ridiculous comments and your rebuttals are horrid. I proved your ass wrong when you said Battlmasters Dont Know All Forms. If it weren't for Glentract, Darth Sexy, and Dessel, that argument would have ended with you getting destroyed.

I wouldn't talk about baits and stuff if I were you.....



WOW Escape, I actually kinda agree with you on this. Dooku eventually wins but I doubt Dooku totally dominates till maybe the ending part of the duel when he wears Kenobi out.

In a pure saber battle Obi-Wan would last for a bit due to his style, eventually Dooku would win though.

Dooku is far superior to Obi-Wan.

^ i concur. Ob1 cant beat Dooku. Ask Ox, Im sure he'd love to tell you, lol.

Lol. While Obi-Wan is my third favourite character he really doesnt stand a chance against Dooku - as shown in both AOTC and ROTS.

well he did do better in AOTC than he did in ROTS, if i remember correctly. But he still gets slammed like Jenna Jamenson on a friday night.

Dooku wins.

Kenobi is a fairly good duelist, and good with Soresu, but Dooku's Makashi mastery and 80+ years of experience would eventually win out.

IShe only does porn on Fridays?

But yes, Dooku wins 1000000/10.

Dooku wins. By the time of ROTS he probably wouldn't be able to get past Obi-Wan's defense, so he would resort to using the Force, as can be seen in ROTS.

Count Dooku is a much more skilled and experienced swordsman, and there is the fact that Soresu is weak against Makashi due to it being a passive form and not as kinetic as some of the others such as Shien/Djem Sa, Shii-Cho, Ataru or Vaapad/Juyo. Dooku definitely takes this, will take 1 minute tops.

Soresu is more about defending against blaster bolts instead of lightsaber attacks. Also, it's users probably aren't that great at deflecting Force attacks either. If it were straight lightsaber fight, I'd give this to Dooku after a long fight. If it were lightsaber and Force, I'd still give it to Dooku, but after a much shorter duel.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
IShe only does porn on Fridays?

But yes, Dooku wins 1000000/10.

no but she comes over to my spot on fridays..

EDIT:

Nvm.



How is that? A lightsaber has little to nothing to do with deflecting Force attacks, save for Force lightning (which we see AotC Kenobi blocking it with relative ease, using only one hand). Much less a form.

But, do elaborate.

There are some cases in when Force users can overpower the defenses afforded by a lightsaber, though. A la Palpatine and Yoda.

Originally posted by Escape81
There are some cases in when Force users can overpower the defenses afforded by a lightsaber, though. A la Palpatine and Yoda.

I suppose that's true (everything you say is true!). However, I don't see how much of any Force attacks are blocked by a lightsaber, except for Force lightning. Force lightning which AotC Kenobi blocked with little exertion, and what Yoda was attempting to block in RotS.

What other attacks?

The point was that I don't see how Soresu users aren't as good as other practitioners of forms at "deflecting Force attacks", much less how a lightsaber matters when dealing with the majority of attacks.

Oh, no, you're right. Yoda and Sidious are special cases, however.



Oh yeah...

Saber battle only? Kenobi wins, the script says Dooku was unable to get past kenobi's defenses when they fought in ROTS (without using the Force).

yea, but OB1 cant attack if he's always blocking. Once he goes to attack, he'll leave a spot unprotected. I see no way of Kenobi winning.

Dooku attacks and attacks and attacks and wears down Obi-Wan. Then lets Obi-Wan take the offensive before easily pwning him.

who is easily pwning who? Attacking OB1 relentlessly would wear down Dooku before it wore down Kenobi. However, Kenobi goes down hard.

Makashi uses next to no energy. Obi-Wans defences may be nearly impenetrable but he is going to get tired before Dooku. So Dooku will win with a blade - although it may take some time. Dooku simply wtf pwns with the force though.

you cant say how much energy OB1 will use up defending...all he's doing is slightly moving his saber much like Dooku. However Dooku will still use more energy. Im still saying Dooku will kill him, just he'd get tired first.

Originally posted by Advent
EDIT:

Nvm.



How is that? A lightsaber has little to nothing to do with deflecting Force attacks, save for Force lightning (which we see AotC Kenobi blocking it with relative ease, using only one hand). Much less a form.

But, do elaborate.

No, no. What I say is that the Form is more about defending themselves from actual assaults like a blaster bolt, as the Form was made to. He manages to deflect the lightning with his lightsaber. However, as can be seen in ROTS, Dooku uses to Force to ovecome Obi-Wan's Soresu.

Originally posted by Council#13
No, no. What I say is that the Form is more about defending themselves from actual assaults like a blaster bolt, as the Form was made to. He manages to deflect the lightning with his lightsaber. However, as can be seen in ROTS, Dooku uses to Force to ovecome Obi-Wan's Soresu.

But, that has to do with Obi-Wan's Force defense. Dooku is a league or two ahead of Kenobi in the Force, hence he was able to take him out so easily. They describe it as "the slightest whipcrack of that power sent Kenobi crashing", it has nothing to do with Soresu.

You said that a Soresu user probably isn't good at blocking attacks, but like I said - Soresu has little to nothing to do with blocking Force attacks, except for lightning. It's mainly dependant upon the victim of the attack, and how proficient they are in the Force.

Unless I'm still misunderstanding your point (most likely as I just woke up).

Originally posted by Advent
But, that has to do with Obi-Wan's Force defense. Dooku is a league or two ahead of Kenobi in the Force, hence he was able to take him out so easily. They describe it as "the slightest whipcrack of that power sent Kenobi crashing", it has nothing to do with Soresu.

You said that a Soresu user probably isn't good at blocking attacks, but like I said - Soresu has little to nothing to do with blocking Force attacks, except for lightning. It's mainly dependant upon the victim of the attack, and how proficient they are in the Force.

Unless I'm still misunderstanding your point (most likely as I just woke up).

Oh, really? I never read that comment before. Is it from a book?

The lightning would be quite easy to block. It's something that you can see, unlike a Force-Push. Wouldn't the two hands or so on the hilt restrict the ability to repel a Force attack?

Sleep alright?

Originally posted by Council#13
Oh, really? I never read that comment before. Is it from a book?

Yes. It's from the RotS novelization:

"He gathered the Force once more in a single indrawn breath that summoned power from throughout the universe; the slightest whipcrack of that power, negligent as a flick of his wrist, sent Kenobi flying backward to crash hard against the wall."

-- Revenge of the Sith novel, Chapter 3.

Err, I had it wrong just a tad bit, but meh - same thing. He also brought Asajj Ventress down to her knees (not for that), in pain, and then slammed her down all with one finger in Dark Rendezvous, I think it was.



Well, perhaps, however, other forms use two hands as well. I doubt it'd hinder it as much given the fact Anakin was able to block Obi-Wan's Force push to a degree, even though he was sent flying. He constantly uses two hands for more powerful swings.

I'm really not sure how the mechanics of Force attacks work in terms of having a lightsaber, but I doubt Soresu users will have more of a hard time blocking an attack than another form. Jedi have pre-cognition, and while it isn't infallible, I'd submit it's the main reason for how they know when to block or repel attacks given what Anakin did.

For the majority of attacks we've seen demonstrated, if someone uses a Force attack on their opposition, the opposition usually doesn't repel or block it (assuming it's another Force user).

Though, I'm may not be making sense right now. I'll update later or something when I'm less busy (now I've have to rush to work, didn't realize it was already near 9, EST).

Originally posted by Advent
Yes. It's from the RotS novelization:

"He gathered the Force once more in a single indrawn breath that summoned power from throughout the universe; the slightest whipcrack of that power, negligent as a flick of his wrist, sent Kenobi flying backward to crash hard against the wall."

-- Revenge of the Sith novel, Chapter 3.

Err, I had it wrong just a tad bit, but meh - same thing. He also brought Asajj Ventress down to her knees (not for that), in pain, and then slammed her down all with one finger in Dark Rendezvous, I think it was.



Well, perhaps, however, other forms use two hands as well. I doubt it'd hinder it as much given the fact Anakin was able to block Obi-Wan's Force push to a degree, even though he was sent flying. He constantly uses two hands for more powerful swings.

I'm really not sure how the mechanics of Force attacks work in terms of having a lightsaber, but I doubt Soresu users will have more of a hard time blocking an attack than another form. Jedi have pre-cognition, and while it isn't infallible, I'd submit it's the main reason for how they know when to block or repel attacks given what Anakin did.

For the majority of attacks we've seen demonstrated, if someone uses a Force attack on their opposition, the opposition usually doesn't repel or block it (assuming it's another Force user).

Though, I'm may not be making sense right now. I'll update later or something when I'm less busy (now I've have to rush to work, didn't realize it was already near 9, EST).

Hmm, the last time I read the ROTS novelization was about a year ago... anyway, never read Dark Rendevous. Is it good?

If you watch them swinging their blades aimlessly at each other, I think you'll see them using one hand.
Cool
Well, Yoda did block Sith Lightning from both Dooku and Sidious, while Obi-Wan blocked Anakin's Force-Push.

Have fun!

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
yea, but OB1 cant attack if he's always blocking. Once he goes to attack, he'll leave a spot unprotected. I see no way of Kenobi winning.
Tell that to Anakin. No, Kenobi will block till he gets a chance to stab Dooku, then he'll take it and win. And Soresu uses less energy than Makashi, plus Kenobi's in betetr shape than Dooku is, so Dooku will tire out more quickly.

Dooku would win easily. Obi-Wan has never posed a challenge to him when they've encountered each other. As for the novel of RotS, seeing as entire sections of the duel are different, that makes it a totally unreliable source of information when compared to the clear evidence from the films. Yes, in RotS, Obi-Wan put up a better fight against Dooku than in AotC, but he still lost. In AotC, the ease with which Dooku tagged his shoulder and leg shows that the beginning of their fight was little more than baiting on Dooku's part. When he wanted to put Obi-Wan down, he did it effortlessly.

Well! Soresu has not proven to be very effective against Makashi, as seen in both movies so I will give this one to Dooku.

Obi-Wan will put up a good fight though in just "Light Saber" based combat.

But if this is an all out fight (including knowledge of the Force), then Obi-Wan stands no chance!

Dooku and Obi-Wan Kenobi would duel for 1 minute 5 seconds before Kenobi gets killed.

Makashi excels against Soresu, considering that Soresu's probably the least kinetic form there is. Dooku is also much more skilled than Kenobi, being able to tool good jedi masters (like Sora Bulq and Master Tholme, at once) and people like Assaj Ventress (who was able to almost match Obi-Wan in saber combat by Obsession which isn't too far from ROTS), stand toe to toe with people like Yoda and Mace Windu and he was also clearly able to handle Obi-Wan fine in ROTS, whatever explanation that the ROTS novel has to say about Kenobi holding back in the beginning or whatever is simply wrong, because the whole fight scene is a complete contradiction to what happens in the movie, which renders it invalid.

Honestly, I'm loath to use any information from the depiction of that fight in the novelisation. Most of it appears to be hyperbolic and contradictory.

Yeah, I'm loathe to use any of the information in that book, period. Far too contradictory.

Advent and I debated this over in the Windu vs. Vader thread. I analyzed the ROTS movie duel. It's impossible to suggest that Kenobi gets killed in 13 seconds due to the Kick-Choke-Throw, because in that manner Anakin would get owned as well (becasue Dooku could have given the same treatment to him instead)!!! And considering all these facts, Advent gave Kenobi 40 seconds while I am giving him 1 minute 5 seconds.

Originally posted by Swirly Girl
Honestly, I'm loath to use any information from the depiction of that fight in the novelisation. Most of it appears to be hyperbolic and contradictory.
Exactly!

I have also got the feeling that that Novelisation is pretty much hyperbolic.

I give Obi 30 seconds.

he is one of the only people who ever stalemated mace, the other was yoda, but i dont put them on the same level, i think that tyrannus would get owned by yoda, in clone wars he looked as if he was taken aback by how good yoda was then said hell with this and made that piller fall on obi wan and anakin so he could askape. I dont think he's on par with mace in the force or in saber skills but i havent seen this guys full force powers, i know he pawns grevous and ventress but i dont know what his powers are. Sidious and Yoda would kill him eventually though, maybe he really is the darkseid verson of mace windu but like i said i dont put him on par with yoda or darth sidious.

You mean in AOTC?

I hand this to Dooku. Kenobi is a skilled swordsman, but not so much as Dooku.