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It came up a couple of times if they would fight who'd win it?

Based on feats I believe that LT would take this....... he snuffed out the IG (which is multiversal), and transformed Surfer into a Universe easily...

Been done... A lot.

And i've had to say LT... consistently shown on the multiversal level...

vs.

spectre... who goes up and down the power level spectrum like a yoyo!

When was Surfer made a Universe?

Originally posted by Rewmac
When was Surfer made a Universe? I'm not sure, Mr. M posted those scans a while ago.... Surfer was granted "A moment of godhood" by LT

Originally posted by Rewmac
It came up a couple of times if they would fight who'd win it?

I already made this awhile ago.

living tribunal is infinite times more powerful. he is omnipotent. spectre isnt

LT fo the win

it would have to be lt vs fully backed sprecte (ie presence)
to stand a chance for spectre...

Originally posted by batdude123
I already made this awhile ago.

Instead of posting something like this. Add something to thread coz it's recently came up a couple of times. So instead of posting "Been done before" debate. Most of the vs. thread out there were done before by someone.

Originally posted by rotiart
it would have to be lt vs fully backed sprecte (ie presence)
to stand a chance for spectre...

Originally posted by Criminalos
living tribunal is infinite times more powerful. he is omnipotent. spectre isnt

WTF just WTF, I dont know just how much more powerful you can get than being an aspect of the presence. Now boys and girls it seems to be like this LT=Judge of TOAA, The spectre=aspect of the presence .Now a lot of people are going to scream LT has better feats and of course he does because his not a featured character like the spectre and well in all honesty Marvel shows their cosmics grandly and godly.

Originally posted by Rewmac
Instead of posting something like this. Add something to thread coz it's recently came up a couple of times. So instead of posting "Been done before" debate. Most of the vs. thread out there were done before by someone.
i agree this topic should be brought up again/\.

supreme being, you cant compare spectre to lt its fanboyish...

Living Tribunal wins.

What this fight really boils down to is which Omniverse is more powerful, DC or Marvel, which isn't a question that can be answered readily.

That being said, LT has more impressive feats than the Spectre on a regular basis, so I go with LT.

Originally posted by Criminalos
supreme being, you cant compare spectre to lt its fanboyish...

fanboyish seems to be the word used every time someone doesnt agree with someone elses point of view.

American citizen: "Hey bush you suck and this war sucks"

President Bush: "You heard that boys his Saddam's fanyboy get him"

Originally posted by Supreme being
fanboyish seems to be the word used every time someone doesnt agree with someone elses point of view.

American citizen: "Hey bush you suck and this war sucks"

President Bush: "You heard that boys his Saddam's fanyboy get him"

So true.

when spectre becomes omnipotent, you can start comparing them.. and dont start making fun of me cause i was The-Judge, its many months ago

Originally posted by Supreme being
WTF just WTF, I dont know just how much more powerful you can get than being an aspect of the presence.
Spectre has a fraction of the pressence power

Originally posted by Supreme being
Now boys and girls it seems to be like this LT=Judge of TOAA, The
spectre=aspect of the presence
Spectre is not Equal to Pressence. Only when the Pressence wants him to be.

Originally posted by Supreme being
Now a lot of people are going to scream LT has better feats
Well Lt does have better feats. Toppleing the IG with a :snap of the fingers seems pretty impressive to me.


Originally posted by Supreme being
and of course he does because his not a featured character like the spectre and well in all honesty Marvel shows their cosmics grandly and godly.

not really, MArvel cosmics gets their asses handed to them all the time, Galactus is a prime example..Shoot looks wats happening to Galactus in Anhillation.
LT is featured less becasue he comes on call when theres a multivesal threat.

The Only time LT got smacked is when Thanos w/HOTU...Thanos reguarded LT as the TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN..HOTU=TOAA power.

Unless Spectre is backed up by the Pressence 100% he's gonna loose.

Originally posted by Criminalos
when spectre becomes omnipotent, you can start comparing them.. and dont start making fun of me cause i was The-Judge, its many months ago

You seem to be using the word omnipotent please define it?And then feel free to repeat your statement.

Originally posted by Criminalos
when spectre becomes omnipotent, you can start comparing them.. and dont start making fun of me cause i was The-Judge, its many months ago
I already said quit it with this omnipotence shit since Ion was also said to be omnipotent.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
I already said quit it with this omnipotence shit since Ion was also said to be omnipotent. Thank you!

omnipotent means that he can do anything. there is no way to defeat him. spectre is merely a thought in his head to him...

Originally posted by Supreme being
WTF just WTF, I dont know just how much more powerful you can get than being an aspect of the presence. Now boys and girls it seems to be like this LT=Judge of TOAA, The spectre=aspect of the presence .Now a lot of people are going to scream LT has better feats and of course he does because his not a featured character like the spectre and well in all honesty Marvel shows their cosmics grandly and godly.

LT acts with the full might of the TOAA when making his determinations. Very rarely is his might ever challenged or power questionable. There is only one LT in all the multiverse... and with his power.. .he has shut off other universes... created universes... restored balance to everything without even a gesture...

spectre... has been shown to be outsmarted before... and manhandled by lucifer... He could barely even resist Parallax the fear entity...

Just IMO... spectre is shown to have more human faults then LT... and generally weaker also.

rotiart just enden the fight. lt wins, its not even a contest...

Originally posted by Criminalos
when spectre becomes omnipotent, you can start comparing them.. and dont start making fun of me cause i was The-Judge, its many months ago Omnipotent= Power with no limits or inexhaustible, in other words, unlimited power.

Omniscent= The capacity to know everything, or at least everything that can be known.

Omnipresent= The ability to be present in every place at any, and/or every, time; unbounded or universal presence.

Get your lingo straight buddy.

it was straight?

Originally posted by Priest
Spectre has a fraction of the pressence power


Spectre is not Equal to Pressence. Only when the Pressence wants him to be.


Well Lt does have better feats. Toppleing the IG with a :snap of the fingers seems pretty impressive to me.




not really, MArvel cosmics gets their asses handed to them all the time, Galactus is a prime example..Shoot looks wats happening to Galactus in Anhillation.
LT is featured less becasue he comes on call when theres a multivesal threat.

The Only time LT got smacked is when Thanos w/HOTU...Thanos reguarded LT as the TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN..HOTU=TOAA power.

Unless Spectre is backed up by the Pressence 100% he's gonna loose.

Woah people i think we all need to take a read back the LT speculated on the basis on what his power could do to the IG and if there was any resistance i dont think he could have disassembled it at all. And like its been stated with a character like the spectre its difficult to make a judgement on him due to his powers always fluctuating but both entitys at full power its without a doubt who the winner would be.



And what i was trying to state was that Marvels cosmics powers are shown on a grander scales than DCs which of course isnt any bodies fault.

Originally posted by rotiart
LT acts with the full might of the TOAA when making his determinations. Very rarely is his might ever challenged or power questionable. There is only one LT in all the multiverse... and with his power.. .he has shut off other universes... created universes... restored balance to everything without even a gesture...

spectre... has been shown to be outsmarted before... and manhandled by lucifer... He could barely even resist Parallax the fear entity...

Just IMO... spectre is shown to have more human faults then LT... and generally weaker also.
You mean this?
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6531/1zu6.th.jpg

Originally posted by Criminalos
when spectre becomes omnipotent, you can start comparing them.. and dont start making fun of me cause i was The-Judge, its many months ago

You were The-Judge??? And you expect us not to make fun??

By the way does LT's power work on the Multi-Verse itself or he is to control only one universe?

tha fact that spectre has to fight alone makes lt the winner... universes are thoughts in his head

rewmac, you didnt knew me there, so shut up

Originally posted by rotiart
LT acts with the full might of the TOAA when making his determinations. Very rarely is his might ever challenged or power questionable. There is only one LT in all the multiverse... and with his power.. .he has shut off other universes... created universes... restored balance to everything without even a gesture...

spectre... has been shown to be outsmarted before... and manhandled by lucifer... He could barely even resist Parallax the fear entity...

Just IMO... spectre is shown to have more human faults then LT... and generally weaker also.

No LT judgement can be challenged apparently by death of all people, i would love to know the comic were this was stated "LT acts with the full might of the TOAA when making his determinations".

Originally posted by Criminalos
rewmac, you didnt knew me there, so shut up wow, why dont you just ask a Mod to ban you?


Again........

Originally posted by Supreme being
Woah people i think we all need to take a read back the LT speculated on the basis on what his power could do to the IG and if there was any resistance i dont think he could have disassembled it at all. And like its been stated with a character like the spectre its difficult to make a judgement on him due to his powers always fluctuating but at both entitys at full power its without a doubt who the winner would be.



And what i was trying to state was that Marvels cosmics powers are shown on a grander scales than DCs which of course isnt any bodies fault.

LT was arguing with Adam... and adam peeked into all of the possible futures... LT said something about their battle laying waste to the multiverse... nothing about either winning or losing... and LT said is that what kind of god you are... then adam forfeited.

Originally posted by Criminalos
rewmac, you didnt knew me there, so shut up
No I just read your post. And think twice who you are shutting...Think about your status here first...

Originally posted by Criminalos
rewmac, you didnt knew me there, so shut up
You sock!

galan777, i am gonna stay here for a looooooong time... no banning. you will see for yourself

Why is it tha I never got banned??? And still managed to punk losers around here???

rewmac, its a forum. as long as i can debate, status doesnt matter

Originally posted by Criminalos
galan777, i am gonna stay here for a looooooong time... no banning. you will see for yourself
Nope you are wrong you will only stay here until someone reports that you are a sock!

Originally posted by Supreme being
Woah people i think we all need to take a read back the LT speculated on the basis on what his power could do to the IG and if there was any resistance i dont think he could have disassembled it at all.
LT took away the IG power from Warlock, when Adam was weilding it.
LT felt Adam dident have to compossure to have such great power.

Originally posted by Supreme being
And like its been stated with a character like the spectre its difficult to make a judgement on him due to his powers always fluctuating but at both entitys at full power its without a doubt who the winner would be.
LT power dosent fluctuat. Hence why LT would beat Spectre unless he his backed by the pressence 100% again.


Originally posted by Supreme being
And what i was trying to state was that Marvels cosmics powers are shown on a grander scales than DCs which of course isnt any bodies fault.
DC and Marvel are diffrent, Marvel is more based on cosmics, where as DC is top dogs are magicaly based.

Originally posted by rotiart
LT was arguing with Adam... and adam peeked into all of the possible futures... LT said something about their battle laying waste to the multiverse... nothing about either winning or losing... and LT said is that what kind of god you are... then adam forfeited.

Excatly so i think we can throw this theory that seems to have spread on here like wild fire out the window LT>>IG.

Originally posted by Criminalos
rewmac, its a forum. as long as i can debate, status doesnt matter


It will. When you start to play tough with me...

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4136/10399395101161964283np2.gif

Originally posted by Criminalos
rewmac, its a forum. as long as i can debate, status doesnt matter

Right now ur are not debating. So lets get back on track. And keep ur personal spamming comments to your self.

Originally posted by Criminalos
galan777, i am gonna stay here for a looooooong time... no banning. you will see for yourself Are you aware of how many people have already reported you?

juggernaut666666, the moderators know they have known for many hours

the moderators know i am socking and i have reasons to do so

Originally posted by Supreme being
Excatly so i think we can throw this theory that seems to have spread on here like wild fire out the window LT>>IG.

what theory?

Originally posted by Criminalos
juggernaut666666, the moderators know they have known for many hours
Oh then I gues it is not a problem If I report you or if I tell this to Digi.

By the way Living Tribunal is existing in different timelines. The one is closest to our timeline isn't thestrongest. As was stated in a Quasar issue.

well, whatever. i just dont see how spectre can win against an omnipotent being

Originally posted by Priest
LT took away the IG power from Warlock, when Adam was weilding it.
LT felt Adam dident have to compossure to have such great power.





He took it when Adam had a moment of realisation now the question that should be asked is what if Adam decided hey you know what i really like this gauntlet i think i will keep it.

Originally posted by Criminalos
the moderators know i am socking and i have reasons to do so

socking??? you play with lambchops?

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Oh then I gues it is not a problem If I report you or if I tell this to Digi.

Don't sweat it...

tell it, juggernaut

or even better, check the off-puma thread! has even talked with digi about it

He is tough...Don't sweat it. He can come back many times. If it's fun for him to get banned a couple times....Hmmm....An I wonder...


Anyway back to thread...Honestly I don't really anymore who are you. I've seen you are quite powerful around KMC.

as rewmac said

See I know everything around here (including your next ban)

i am not "powerful" around kmc i at least dont think so??

Anyway who cares who are you.

So back to it. If both Spectre and LT are backed up...Who'd win??? Which has the more powerful source?

Originally posted by rotiart
what theory?

LT>>IG.

yeah, tomorrow, i will be gone... only to return but whatever, ignore it were offtopic...

Yeah maybe. I just asked a question.

well, but i dont understand people can say spectre wins... if his opponent is omnipotent, it isnt even a fight?? spectre fights hard fights, while living tribunal is thinking up universes and dimension

Originally posted by Supreme being
He took it when Adam had a moment of realisation now the question that should be asked is what if Adam decided hey you know what i really like this gauntlet i think i will keep it.
Accually Adam chalanged LT.. LT then proceeds to "turn off" the guantlet.

Originally posted by Rewmac
Anyway who cares who are you.

So back to it. If both Spectre and LT are backed up...Who'd win??? Which has the more powerful source?
Thats a question that cannot be answered.
going on pannel feats LT shouldent loose

What if Batman with prep joins him ?

Originally posted by Rewmac
What if Batman with prep joins him ? or what if Wolvie joins in?

then its a slaughter

Originally posted by Rewmac
What if Batman with prep joins him ?
in that case wolvie is on LT's Side

i was fooling you all i am not the-judge so no reson to be mean, so lets just debate

Originally posted by Galan777
or what if Wolvie joins in?

then its a slaughter
beat me to it damm u

Originally posted by Criminalos
i was fooling you all i am not the-judge so no reson to be mean, so lets just debate wrong, Digi already did a sock check on ure punk ass....

you are him/he is you

Originally posted by Priest
beat me to it damm u

Originally posted by Criminalos
i was fooling you all i am not the-judge so no reson to be mean, so lets just debate
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Don't worry guys, I explained it to him. And maybe we'll get treated to some Mufasa scans before he's banned again.

Originally posted by Priest
in that case wolvie is on LT's Side

Nooo... Wolverine's Speedblitzing Batkick is nowhere to Batman's Power Cosmic balast while he is using his heat vision.

**** that mufassashit... he shouldnt have been mentioned...

Originally posted by Rewmac
Nooo... Wolverine's Speedblitzing Batkick is nowhere to Batman's Power Cosmic balast while he is using his heat vision.
not even is bone-clawed wolvie? cry

BTW I already sent a nice PM to Storm

Originally posted by Priest
Accually Adam chalanged LT.. LT then proceeds to "turn off" the guantlet.

You will also notice that he speculated on what his capable of and as some people are trying to claim an all powerful being does not speculate on his/her power.

storm knows already, juggy and it doesnt matter but just forget i am the-judge. came back to debate, so go back on topic and do it?? it will just be one of the old, typhical discussions again, otherwise...

Originally posted by Criminalos
storm knows already, juggy and it doesnt matter but just forget i am the-judge. came back to debate, so go back on topic and do it?? it will just be one of the old, typhical discussions again, otherwise... there goes a peffeclty great thread out the window.

was you referrering to the anti-me debate or the spectre vs lt debate?

Originally posted by Priest
not even is bone-clawed wolvie? cry
Which ever you want. But this is Batman who is still a Herald of Galactus.

This will be closed. And you are going to bet banned again....

no moderators are on now. it will not be closed

whatever. going to bed now. see ya

Originally posted by Rewmac
Instead of posting something like this. Add something to thread coz it's recently came up a couple of times. So instead of posting "Been done before" debate. Most of the vs. thread out there were done before by someone.

I really don't care.

Bump mine:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=398638

You should fellow Lantern...And mine has a better outfit...It has better sigs in them Anyway I waiting for Juntai to clear me up in somethings here.

Originally posted by Rewmac
It came up a couple of times if they would fight who'd win it?

Living Tribunal>The Spectre

SPectre at his regular state is in God's Graces, He's the Wrath of God,>>>>>>>>>>> a punk judge

Originally posted by Rewmac
You should fellow Lantern...And mine has a better outfit...It has better sigs in them Anyway I waiting for Juntai to clear me up in somethings here. Sup?

Originally posted by guy222
Living Tribunal>The Spectre

So true

Let there be Light!

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Let there be Light!

The light always outshines the dark. Living Tribunal=Spectre

bump

On average, Spectre isn't strong enough to take this.

I have seen this thread

Originally posted by Shin_Nikkolas
On average, Spectre isn't strong enough to take this.
Spectre is as strong as he needs to be. Or he could just make a mirror and pwn the Lt with his own energies.

Originally posted by rotiart
it would have to be lt vs fully backed sprecte (ie presence)
to stand a chance for spectre...

The Presence > LT

Which version of the Spectre ?

does it matter, from what I have read in the Spectre Respect thread, Spectre can become as strong as he needs to be in order to accomplishe a job, but his level of power is still determind by the Presence so he should always be second to the Presence just like LT is only Second to TOAA ore the power of TOAA.

It does because for example the Spectre from v2 would be defeated by Living Tribunal.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
It does because for example the Spectre from v2 would be defeated by Living Tribunal.

and another version would beat him... why??? (I doesn't know a awfull lot about the Spectre)

Originally posted by Utrigita and another version would beat him... why??? (I doesn't know a awfull lot about the Spectre)
Spectre has never preformed any panel feats that equals the prime feats of the Living Tribunal.
Living Tribunal being the stream of energy that goes through the Marvel Omniverse, and holding two Megaverses in the palm of his hand.
The only thing that have come remotely close to that was Spectre when he merged with the Source, then he said that he was one with everything (basicly what Living Tribunal is)

So I say that it's a stalemate if the Spectre is at his prime, otherwise he gets whopped easiley.

Another thing that have bothered me is.
Lucifer Morningstar can't even create matter/energies . The only thing he can do is manipulate it.
Which makes him very, very weak.

And Lucifer is supose to be second only to YHWH.

Originally posted by Astner
Spectre has never preformed any panel feats that equals the prime feats of the Living Tribunal.
Living Tribunal being the stream of energy that goes through the Marvel Omniverse, and holding two Megaverses in the palm of his hand.
The only thing that have come remotely close to that was Spectre when he merged with the Source, then he said that he was one with everything (basicly what Living Tribunal is)

So I say that it's a stalemate if the Spectre is at his prime, otherwise he gets whopped easiley.

Another thing that have bothered me is.
Lucifer Morningstar can't even create matter/energies . The only thing he can do is manipulate it.
Which makes him very, very weak.

And Lucifer is supose to be second only to YHWH.
Lucifer is the will of God. That would be like saying the LT couldn't fix one universal flaw in marvel's the end. does that make the LT weak? And the spectre actually has some rediculous feats. Like how he easily broke the power of the IG, cosmic Cube, Oan battery, Spear of destiny, ect, with just a small effort.

Originally posted by Astner
Spectre has never preformed any panel feats that equals the prime feats of the Living Tribunal.
Living Tribunal being the stream of energy that goes through the Marvel Omniverse, and holding two Megaverses in the palm of his hand.
The only thing that have come remotely close to that was Spectre when he merged with the Source, then he said that he was one with everything (basicly what Living Tribunal is)

My thoughts too but again doesn't know so much about spectre and his different versions but I take it that the version with the merging with the Source Wall is his strongest incarnation so far???

So I say that it's a stalemate if the Spectre is at his prime, otherwise he gets whopped easiley.

Like Erik said okay, you both know what you are talking about.

Another thing that have bothered me is.
Lucifer Morningstar can't even create matter/energies . The only thing he can do is manipulate it.
Which makes him very, very weak.

And Lucifer is supose to be second only to YHWH.

Restriction possibly because be did after all use the Power of Michael in a impressive way even though he cannot himself create matter and energy, what is it they say Michael is the .... and Lucifer is the .... wouldn't it possibly have something to do with that???

Because it would be stronger. The v2 Spectre is weak compared to his other versions.



He became God and yes, it is his strongest version.

In this version he contained creation inside of him, a creation that was destroyed and reborn, effectivly the end of everything and rebirth took place inside of him.

So unless Living Tribunal is stronger than God he can't really put any problems to Spectre in this form



That guy knowing what he's talking about ? Him ?

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
He became God and yes, it is his strongest version.
No he didn't. He became the Source (DC's version of the Holy Spirit) , an aspect of God.


Just like the Living Tribunal.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7315/ltrulescl3hu3.th.jpg


You fail to realize that he only became an aspect of God.


Reported.

Originally posted by Astner
No he didn't. He became the Source (DC's version of the Holy Spirit) , an aspect of God.


Just like the Living Tribunal.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7315/ltrulescl3hu3.th.jpg


You fail to realize that he only became an aspect of God.


Reported.
I can't really see why you would waste the mods time reporting his last statement.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I can't really see why you would waste the mods time reporting his last statement.
Because Erik have past the limit more than once, I'll do it now before he starts a flame war.
Either you debate or you stay out of the forum.

Spectre experiences how it is to be God :

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/3392/spectresource1bn3.th.png

"You seek to reveal the mystery of God very well , you will be shown the nature of God"

Spectre confirming that he became God :

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4549/spectresource2xg4.th.png

"If this is what it means to be God -- how does God stand it ?!"



That scan is supposed to prove what ?

And besides, Is Living Tribunal at or above The Presence ? No.

Has the Living Tribunal been shown to be second to somebody ? Yes.



Lmao

Nicely done Erik...now watch!

Any minute now someone is going to post a scan from Vertigo in which The Presence says he isn't all that powerful....thus they'll say LT wins.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Spectre experiences how it is to be God :

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/3392/spectresource1bn3.th.png

"You seek to reveal the mystery of God very well , you will be shown the nature of God"

Spectre confirming that he became God :

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4549/spectresource2xg4.th.png

"If this is what it means to be God -- how does God stand it ?!"
As I thought, you're basing your theory on what's represented in the Spectre respect thread.
The truth however differ from what's written there.

As you know he merged with the Source, and the Source is only an aspect of God--hence he did only became a part of God.

The part he became however is only an aspect of be God, and the Spectre couldn't stand to be just an aspect of "God".

It's stated that he merges with the Source here.

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/8066/84440116kv1.th.jpg

Unless you claim that the Source is the Presence in all his glory.


That the Living Tribunal is the begining and the end of everything in all creation.


Again, are you trying to say that the Source is the Presence?


The Supreme being, yes, but I cannot say the same for YHWH or the Presence (of Vertigo) considering how he in Lucifer #70 stated that he himself was not supreme.

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7871/lucifer75p34py1wq9.th.jpg


You're violating the rules of the forum, and I think you are aware of it, not to mention doing it on purpose.

Told ya so...

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf Nicely done Erik...now watch!
Oh right ... -- I reported you as well, lets see what the other moderators have to say about it.


I don't see your point, are you trying to ignore what's on panel, just because it doesn't fit you??

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Because it would be stronger. The v2 Spectre is weak compared to his other versions.

Okay.

He became God and yes, it is his strongest version.

In this version he contained creation inside of him, a creation that was destroyed and reborn, effectivly the end of everything and rebirth took place inside of him.

Well so does LT....

So unless Living Tribunal is stronger than God he can't really put any problems to Spectre in this form

LT isn't stronger then God but is Spectre stronger then the Presence the supreme being of DC, ore is Spectre just as strong as the Presence wishes the Spectre to be...

That guy knowing what he's talking about ? Him ?

Well to me, yes, since my knowlegde of DC is very little if not none existing. I entered this thread to learn more about the Spectre since a Respect thread is one thing debating the Character is a entirely different situation.

Originally posted by Astner
The Supreme being, yes, but I cannot say the same for YHWH or the Presence (of Vertigo) considering how he in Lucifer #70 stated that he himself was not supreme.

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7871/lucifer75p34py1wq9.th.jpg

Isn't he referring to the writers??? that was my immediate thought when I saw the scan.

Basing my "theory" on what's represented in the Spectre respect thread ? No, I base my theory on the actual comic which I've read.

Stated that he merges with the Source ? Not it doesn't, it's only stated that he enters the source. I've already proven with two statements that he became God.

Really, stop grasping at straws. It's getting pathetic.



Too bad Creation had already ended and restarted inside of Spectre.



When exactly did I say that ?



Actually that's from Lucifer #75 but considering you haven't actually read the series I'm not surprised.

Now does the Presence state that the forces that shaped him are supreme to him ? No.

Does he even mention who those forces are ? No.

Your argument ? Nullified.

Then again, I could explain to you what those forces are but I'm not going to bother.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Isn't he referring to the writers??? that was my immediate thought when I saw the scan.
It was the end of the series so you cannot say, it wasn't explained.
It could as well have been a fictional being.

But then again, all he did was creating Multiverses. The Living Tribunal's feats and statements dwarfs his.

Does what ? Equal God ? Creations are destroyed and reborn inside of him?



In the specific instance where he enters the Source, he is as strong as God since he practically becomes him.

Other than that yes, he is pretty much as strong as the Presence wants him to be.



Feel free to ask me if you want, I have every post-Crisis Spectre appearence and read it.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Isn't he referring to the writers??? that was my immediate thought when I saw the scan.

No. If you want I can tell you who he reffers to based on evidence in PM.

Originally posted by Astner
It was the end of the series so you cannot say, it wasn't explained.
It could as well have been a fictional being.

The chances of that would IMO be very low.

But then again, all he did was creating Multiverses. The Living Tribunal's feats and statements dwarfs his.

True but The Presence is still supreme over the area, and in theory it wouldn't matter if a Being is capable of destroying a universe in a comic book if that's all of reality in that comic and a Multiverse destroyed by a character in another comic book. It is still all existance in the respected Comics that is destroyed. Then we could start with size and so forth but it is still all of existance thats destroyed.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
No. If you want I can tell you who he reffers to based on evidence in PM.

okay please do.

LT has stated that he could be All if he wanted to, but must be apart.

LT has overpowered the IG, the IG makes one god beneath THOTI in the Omniverse.

LT manipulated the Starbrand with a gesture (a Multiversal source of power)

LT manipulated/fashioned Two MegaverseS in one hand.
(each Megaverse is a collection of Infinite MultiverseS)

LT was going to replace the 616 Universe with the Ultimate Universe,
perhaps his greatest feat,
since this would require the complete re-configuration of All of Marvel.

LT is the Heart of all things in Marvel,
everything (as in ALL Creation/Reality/Existence) reveberates through him.
...................................................................................


Who wins?

who ... since it can never be proven one way or another.

Marvel is not DC, and DC is not Marvel.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Does what ? Equal God ? Creations are destroyed and reborn inside of him?

Well yes since LT is the nexus of Alpha and Omega and so forth then I would say Yes that Creation are destroyed and reborn in some fashion inside of him.

In the specific instance where he enters the Source, he is as strong as God since he practically becomes him.

Other than that yes, he is pretty much as strong as the Presence wants him to be.

Isn't that a bit of a paradox, he becomes as strong as God but God still decides how strong he will be...

Feel free to ask me if you want, I have every post-Crisis Spectre appearence and read it.

Thanks appreciate it.

Originally posted by Utrigita
okay please do.

Okay.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Marvel is not DC, and DC is not Marvel.

Which makes discussing high level Character difficult IMO.

Because destroying a Megaverse in Marvel would mean from what I have understood that you could basically destroy all of DC since it is only a multiverse(s).

Originally posted by Utrigita
Which makes discussing high level Character difficult IMO.

Because destroying a Megaverse in Marvel would mean from what I have understood that you could basically destroy all of DC since it is only a multiverse(s).

Precisely.

This is why cross-company battles concerning Cosmics atleast,
should be pointless.

There's a difference between what Living Tribunal and Spectre are in comparison with 'creations' in this 2 instances. Spectre contains everything while Living Tribunal is it's 'heart', juding from the beginning of creation to its end.

And from this :

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/8088/livingtribunalcreationyr1.th.png

It's obvious that the Living Tribunal came in existence with the creation of the Multiverse, which means he has no involvement in the creation preceding the current one, thus his role extents through only the current creation while in Spectre's case creations were ending and begining inside of him.



It is

It isn't.



Actually he became one with God, which it's stated.

It isn't stated that he became one with the Source.



So me pointing out that it's pathetic seeing you grasping at straws, which you are, is bannable ?



You don't even remember your own arguments? You said that the Living Tribunal was the master of all creation, while I countered it with the fact that when Spectre merged he creation ended and restarted inside of him.

Nice try to avoid the subject though.



He never merged with the Source. It is never stated nor even hinted. He merged with God, which is stated.



This is pretty hard to confuse, especially since it's the last issue of the series and the one where Lucifer finally has an ultimate discussion with his father.

Obviously pointing that you haven't read it.



Where does it state those forces are superior to him ?



Does it mention that they exist at the present tense ? Where exactly ? It doesn't say "they are shaping me" it says "I was shaped"



Actually I can, but I'm not going to waste my time on you.

Seriously, I'm stopping this discussion. It's pointless because you don't really have a clue about you are talking about.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Precisely.

This is why cross-company battles concerning Cosmics atleast,
should be pointless.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
There's a difference between what Living Tribunal and Spectre are in comparison with 'creations' in this 2 instances. Spectre contains everything while Living Tribunal is it's 'heart', juding from the beginning of creation to its end.

No difference whatsoever.

LT is not just the Omniverse's Heart,
LT is it's Judge,
LT is the Pulse of Creation itself,
LT is the Finger the Destiny of ALPHA & OMEGA spins on.

Alpha/Omega = Beginning and End.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
And from this :

It's obvious that the Living Tribunal came in existence with the creation of the Multiverse, which means he has no involvement in the creation preceding the current one,

thus his role extents through only the current creation while in Spectre's case creations were ending and begining inside of him.

Neither does Spectre.

Creations were beginning and ending inside him,
after the initial DC Reality was created many, many years ago, Not before.

Unless you're saying that Spectre was created before DC.
.....................................................................................


The LT controls all of Marvel (the Omniverse)
all of Marvel reverberates through him,
the Heart of Marvel is the LT.
.....................................................................................

Meh,

if the Alien Entity can fold back the Omniverse to the point before the First Big Bang,
and then Re-Create the Omniverse from said point,

I'm sure for the LT that would be a walk in the park.

.....................................................................................


But really, this is a no win situation,

because we're dealing with Cross-comapny Cosmic contradictions.

Originally posted by Mr Master
No difference whatsoever.

LT is not just the Omniverse's Heart,
LT is it's Judge,
LT is the Pulse of Creation its self,
LT is the Finger the Destiny of ALPHA & OMEGA spins on.

Alpha/Omega = Beginning and End.



Neither does Spectre.

Creations were beginning and ending inside him,
after the initial DC Reality was created many, many years ago, Not before.

Unless you're saying that Spectre was created before DC.
.....................................................................................


The LT controls all of Marvel (the Omniverse)
all of Marvel reverberates through him,
the Heart of Marvel is the LT.
.....................................................................................

Meh,

if the Alien Entity can fold back the Omniverse to the point before the First Big Bang,
and then Re-Create the Omniverse from said point,

I'm sure for the LT that would be a walk in the park.

.....................................................................................


But really, this is a no win situation,

because we're dealing with Cross-comapny Cosmic contradictions.

Then why couldn't the LT fix the universal flaw in the end? He's so powerful and yet can't erase a universe and or fix it? WTF.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
There's a difference between what Living Tribunal and Spectre are in comparison with 'creations' in this 2 instances. Spectre contains everything while Living Tribunal is it's 'heart', juding from the beginning of creation to its end.

And from this :

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/8088/livingtribunalcreationyr1.th.png

It's obvious that the Living Tribunal came in existence with the creation of the Multiverse, which means he has no involvement in the creation preceding the current one, thus his role extents through only the current creation while in Spectre's case creations were ending and begining inside of him.

Yes but Spectre also came into beginning with the creation of DC, the difference is that he feels the beginning of creation and the destruction of it. LT feels the same he is the alpha and Omega all through out marvels omniverse realities dies and are reborn so it would be logical to assume that he also feels the beginning and ending inside of him, just in another way, and it wasn't physically (seen on panel) that Creation was beginning and ending around him, what be became was a being like LT IMO. (this is a bit clumsy written just say so if you want me to write it more properly)



It is

thought so.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Then why couldn't the LT fix the universal flaw in the end? He's so powerful and yet can't erase a universe and or fix it? WTF.

Because the power of TOAA was required to fix the flaw nothing less would do even LT with all his power couldn't accomplishe that feat hell Thanos with the heart couldn't fix it either and Thanos with Hearth of the universe > LT, IMO it was all masterminded from TOAA.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Because the power of TOAA was required to fix the flaw, IMO it was all masterminded from TOAA.

Well, Why couldn't the TOAA just give the power to the LT? And why was it stated that not even the TOAA could fix the flaw. Bad writing if you ask me.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Well, Why couldn't the TOAA just give the power to the LT? And why was it stated that not even the TOAA could fix the flaw. Bad writing if you ask me.

because simply thats not the way it work LT has been given a maximum to his power and he cannot go beyond that powerlevel he isn't allowed to by TOAA. TOAA could fix the flaw but it would required something that I don't think TOAA was willing to do the destruction of his entire creation, it was far easier to have Thanos doing it for him, Thanos that wouldn't have a problem with destroying Reality.

And nvr I have absolutely no idea if this is correct I'm just speculating.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Then why couldn't the LT fix the universal flaw in the end?

Come on Nvr, why do so many strange things happen in comics?

To make a story continue.

I could bring up senseless limitations on any character, in DC or Marvel.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
He's so powerful and yet can't erase a universe and or fix it? WTF.

If LT would've been allowed to fix the flaw,

then the entire story concerning Thanos/THOTI/The End, would've been for naught.
..................................................................................

The "Flaw" was written to be unfixable by anyone (including THOTI)

The "Flaw" was a matter of awareness exclusively for Toaa/god's power,
this is why the LT and anyone beneath didn't even know about the "Flaw"

It was a matter that was only to be handled by THOTI (god's power)



That's how the story was written.

Sorta like how,

Batman can kick Spectre away,
how Mxy defeats effortlessly a backed Spectre,
how amped CM defeats Spectre,
and many other ridiculous showings.

(My fingers hurt)




Living Tribunal doesn't contain creation inside of him, like Spectre is. Spectre was every being in creation.

There's a difference.



My point was that Living Tribunal apparently is the judge over creation while creations are actually ending and beginning inside of Spectre.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Well, Why couldn't the TOAA just give the power to the LT? And why was it stated that not even the TOAA could fix the flaw. Bad writing if you ask me.
As you hinted yourself the Living Tribunal couldn't because the writer didn't want him to.
The writer made the story so that what happen happened.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Come on Nvr, why do so many strange things happen in comics?

To make a story continue.

I could bring up senseless limitations on any character, in DC or Marvel.



If LT would've been allowed to fix the flaw,

then the entire story concerning Thanos/THOTI/The End, would've been for naught.
..................................................................................

The "Flaw" was written to be unfixable by anyone (including THOTI)

The "Flaw" was a matter of awareness exclusively for Toaa/god's power,
this is why the LT and anyone beneath didn't even know about the "Flaw"

It was a matter that was only to be handled by THOTI (god's power)



That's how the story was written.

Sorta like how,

Batman can kick Spectre away,
how Mxy defeats effortlessly a backed Spectre,
how amped CM defeats Spectre,
and many other ridiculous showings.

Of course I know these things. But people seem to forget what is rediculous when it comes to thier favorite companies in relation to another company.

As for mxy's power,it has been on par with Spectre a few times. So I dont' count that as all the way rediculous. He was even shown as a peer of spectre when they went around fixing the cosmos.

LT hasn't been shown that he is the alpha and omega of more than one creation while Spectre was shown to have a creation inside of him ending and afterwards another one beginning. That was my point. This is why LT is in existence since the Multiverse and not before it or never stated to be after it while God, which Spectre became, is eternal.

As for the discussion with this other Astner guy, I'm not really going to continue because like I said, it's pointless. Anybody who reads my points can make a view and if there's something he doesn't understand feel free to PM me.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
LT hasn't been shown that he is the alpha and omega of more than one creation while Spectre was shown to have a creation inside of him ending and afterwards another one beginning. That was my point. This is why LT is in existence since the Multiverse and not before it or never stated to be after it while God, which Spectre became, is eternal.

We know that the LT isn't the alpha that is for sure. He discovers things to much and doesn't always know the answer to things. Someone who witnessed creation from the beginning would know everything. Like if he could beat the IG or not, that there was a ultimate universe, ect. Both of these guys are jobbers.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Living Tribunal doesn't contain creation inside of him, like Spectre is. Spectre was every being in creation.

There's a difference.

But Erik,
I don't think having all creation inside you is such a big deal.

As we speak the Alien Entity is all of creation in Marvel,
in fact,
the Alien Entity recreated the entire Marvel Universe with a spark contained within him,
from the Void Before the First Big Bang.
.....................................................................................

The Brothers, contain entire MultiverseS within themselves.
.....................................................................................

Eternity contains all of creation in the Prime infinite Multiverse within him.
.....................................................................................

Nth Man contains another separate Multiverse within himself.
.....................................................................................


LT is above all these cats, in status and power.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
My point was that Living Tribunal apparently is the judge over creation while creations are actually ending and beginning inside of Spectre.

LT is more than just creation's Judge.

LT is the Heart of Marvel.
All Creation reverberates through him.
Alpha & Omega's (beginning & end of everything) Destiny spins in his hand.


And once again, LT sated he could be everything in the Marvel:

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/1023/lttk0.th.jpg

"I, who could be ALL, must be but a part, I must be apart"