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This is, of course, purely speculatory because we never know exactly how powerful Anakin at full potential would be.

So, who, in your opinion, would win if the two fought?

ARGHH MISSPELLED THE TITLE NAME!

Ah well.

Anakin, I see no evidence that Luke would have the same potential as him.

i read their supposed to be pretty much the same. no evidence to prove or disprove it though.

Luke because hes black

ok Jokes aside.

Id say luke because he knows everything in the lightside, anakin would only use what ever he has to his full potential. Luke knows alot more,

Unless we are talking about Anakin by the time of the OT where he looks like sebastian shaw then id say anakin because by then he would have mastered the dark side

Anakins full potential = Luke's full potential, which we see in LOTF, according to Lucas in Vanity Fair.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Anakins full potential = Luke's full potential, which we see in LOTF, according to Lucas in Vanity Fair.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t428956.html

They battle each other ferociously (with the planet crumbling under their powers) till they stab each others hearts.

stalemate. but if there has to be a winner, I'd say anakin just cause i think his over all connection to the force is greater, he was born of the force, Luke was born of flesh...well thats my rational.

And KAdesh, wtf are you talking about?! lol. If Anakin reached his full potential, he'd know just as much as luke, maybe more. No one said Vader or darkside Anakin.

I disagree. Anakin reaching his full potential =/= Anakin learning new techniques or mastering the Force or knowing more. Reaching his full potential could simply mean reaching his full possible power. Power is nearly useless if you can't properly implement it.

Anyway, this match should end as a stalemate.

But someone has to win sometime, though since we don't know, we might as well say it's 50/50 for one to win, which pretty much makes it a stalemate anyway.

But the same potential doesn't mean they must be as good as eachother. They wouldn't have experienced the same kinds of things....

Originally posted by VinCon01
I disagree. Anakin reaching his full potential =/= Anakin learning new techniques or mastering the Force or knowing more. Reaching his full potential could simply mean reaching his full possible power. Power is nearly useless if you can't properly implement it.

i really don't want to get into the whole argument of what full potential is, but i will say that FULL potential is every aspect of one being maxed out. Lightsaber skill, force knowledge, force power, combination of all. Its been said that Anakin at full potential would have been the greatest force user ever. Period.And if you don't know how to use power, then you don't have any real power.

Originally posted by kamikz
But someone has to win sometime, though since we don't know, we might as well say it's 50/50 for one to win, which pretty much makes it a stalemate anyway.

But the same potential doesn't mean they must be as good as eachother. They wouldn't have experienced the same kinds of things....

No, but lucas is the one that said Luke=FP Anakin...thats what people are saying.

sorry for double post, i just dont know how to quote more than one person in one reply.

Full potential Anakin would take down LOTF Luke with ease. Well, maybe not ease, but he'd definately win. Anakin had higher potiential than Luke and Luke still hasn't reached his potential by LOTF. He's much weaker than a FP Anakin would be.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
No, but lucas is the one that said Luke=FP Anakin...thats what people are saying.

No, Lucas did not. People are misinterpreting that statement, and twisting it around. I've debated this numerous times, and the quote they are referring to does not indicate that Luke is equal to Anakin, both at their full potential.

All the quote is saying is that Luke could become either: the most powerful ever, or just simply the most powerful Jedi. Lucas says "Anakin wasn't what he was suppose to become - but the son could become that", that is not attesting to equal potential.

Subject, reaching your full potential is simply mastering the force to the best of your innate ability, that's all. There are lots of other things to consider such as knowledge, alignment, fighting mentality etc.

For example, by ROTS, Yoda has reached his full potential in the force, however that's not to say that he wouldn't be more powerful with the force if he knew more abilities (such as force blocking, Fallanasi techniques etc.), or if he were a darksider (more devastating attacks, no lightside limitations etc., Count Dooku for one believed that Yoda would be able to take out ROTS Sidious in a heartbeat if he were a darksider).

And let's not forget the fact that this is full potential in the force, which says nothing about other skills such as lightsaber ability.

Well anakin has alot of raw power, and raw power does not equal you to win by default, FPA is an unknown, we have no idea what he would do, its the same with ragnos, we know he is powerful but we dont know how powerful or what can he do, same applies to FPA

full potential means just that FULL POTENTIAL...full potential as a duelist, full potential as a master of the force. Anakin would be untouchable. And if Luke is the most powerful now and cant be beat, and if Anakin was meant to be better then him, then guess what, he would be beaten either. If he had the best force mastery, but sucked as a duelist, then he wouldn't be the best, cause he could be beaten. Why is it that you try to argue with everything anyone says? No matter what is said? Whatever, if your full potential is to be the BEST, then that includes every possible aspect.

Advent, my bad for the misunderstanding, i wasn't trying to twist it around at all. That's what i got out of it, Anakin was meant to be THIS, he didn't do it, but Luke did become THIS. Thats how i saw it.

No, it doesn't. Full Potential doesn't mean he's maxed everything out. His "full potential" is a reference to power. Not ability, not skill, not knowledge. Power.

Originally posted by VinCon01
No, it doesn't. Full Potential doesn't mean he's maxed everything out. His "full potential" is a reference to power. Not ability, not skill, not knowledge. Power.

No. Full potential means maxed out in every area.

And how exactly do you come to this conclusion?

b

Subject, when people refer to full potential Anakin, they mean full potential in the force. This says nothing about his saber ability, or other skills.

Full potential in the force just means that you can feel and manipulate the force to the best of your innate ability, this doesn't mean that you can't possibly become more powerful. There are other things to consider, such as knowledge of the force.

Originally posted by Dessel
Subject, when people refer to full potential Anakin, they mean full potential in the force. This says nothing about his saber ability, or other skills.

Full potential in the force just means that you can feel and manipulate the force to the best of your innate ability, this doesn't mean that you can't possibly become more powerful. There are other things to consider, such as knowledge of the force.

Wrong. Just because you feel that way doesn't mean that everyong feels that way. I, for one, do not. Full potential means they are one hundred percent maxed out in all aspects.

IIRC, the quote was something along the lines of "If Anakin were to reach his full potential, he would be the most powerful Force user ever."

But my memory is a bit hazy on the subject, so...

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Wrong. Just because you feel that way doesn't mean that everyong feels that way. I, for one, do not. Full potential means they are one hundred percent maxed out in all aspects.

We're talking full potential in the force here, that say nothing about other skills such as saber dueling. And it's not a matter of opinion, full potential in the force just means that you have reached the point where you can feel and manipulate the force to the best of your innate ability, that says nothing about knowlege.

do you have a quote or a source?

It's common sense. You clearly don't understand how the force works, and the concept of potential.

But let's see, Yoda is outright stated to have reached his full potential in the force by ROTS, doesn't mean he wouldn't be more powerful if he knew sith magic, or even if he was a darksider, Count Dooku for one believes that he would be much more powerful as a darksider. So there you go.

that made no sense and was totally irrelevant. Since you're obviously such an expert on the force, why don't you explain it to us all. All of the intricate details of it. you're a fvcking moron, in no way did George Lucas ever state that the FULL potential of Anakin's abilities, was limited to his manipulation of the force. Anakin, at his FULL POTENTIAL, would be unstoppable, unrivaled in saber combat and force mastery. He would be the best force user of all times. If his force mastery was top notch, but he sucked at dueling, then he would be beaten and thusly, not be the best. Thats common sense. How is it common sense to pick and choose certain abilities he would excel in, out of his full range of abilities? Thats goddamned idiotic.

His full potential, means he would reach his full potential as saber dueling, making him the best, reaching his full potential in force powers and the ability to use them, to assume ANYTHING else, is wrong and riddled with stupidity.

Subject; enough, man. Chill. Dessel actually has a point.



^ He is correct. Yoda's potential in terms of Force strength must have been reached by RotS, at the very, very maximum. It is likely that he reached the pinnacle of his power long before the PT. If that is not the case, then it would be impossible for anyone to ever achieve full potential.

However, even he said, I think, "much to learn, I still have" in the novelization. He learned from the spirit of Qui-Gon Jinn. That he was only able to stalemate Palpatine (despite being centuries older than him) speaks that he did not know everything and that his knowledge and technique could be increased.

Count Dooku thought that, a Yoda unrestrained by the Jedi Code, and unleashed in the Dark Side, would "be capable of annihilating even Sidious", despite a light side Yoda being only capable of stalemating him as of RotS.

That does not mean that Yoda's potential or raw power would increase, but he could learn techniques and knowledge previously beyond his reach that would increase his lethality.

Take a look. Luke is nearing his potential, I assume, every day as of LotF. He is more powerful (or should be considered as such) than every adversary he has faced - including Palpatine. But, let's be real. He doesn't have half of Yoda's or Palpatine's knowledge in the Force.

Palpatine didn't seem to have reached the apex of absolute power, even during DE. His most powerful attack was developed after his death on Endor.

I am of one to believe that knowledge and technique can increase even after a full potential.

Well since you're obviously such an intelligent and logical person, please explain how it made no sense.

A force user's midichlorian count dictates their connection to the force; that is, how apparent the force is to them - and makes it easier for them to sense and manipulate the force. Time spent getting used to the connection brings the force user closer to their full potential in the force, and once they have fully mastered their connection to the force, they have reached their full potential. This however has no bearing on other aspects of the force such as knowledge, alignment etc. - things which can make a force user more powerful, thus there is no fixed power level on any 'full potential' force user, as there are other variables to consider. It's pretty simple really.



I think you'll find it's you who is the moron, Subject. I was talking about his potential in the force, not overall potential of his abilities. Reading Comprehension much?



1. You seem to be talking about full potential in overall abilities, I was only talking about full potential in the force.

2. There's no indication that he had the most potential with anything other than the force, who knows if he would be unrivalled in saber combat?



Not necessarily, he could just instakill everyone with the force like pretty much every other force titan there is (Traya, Exar Kun etc.).



Again, I was only talking about his potential in the force.



Again, you misread my argument, so I'll just quickly go over it again.
The thread creator was being pretty vague about just exactly what he meant by Full Potential Anakin, so I assumed that he was referring to full potential Anakin as pretty much everybody else does, full potential in the force. I then went on to address other variables that would affect just exactly how powerful Anakin would be at full potential in the force. And then what happened was that you misconstrued my argument, and started talking bs and acting like an ass.

Originally posted by Escape81
Subject; enough, man. Chill. Dessel actually has a point.



^ He is correct. Yoda's potential in terms of Force strength must have been reached by RotS, at the very, very maximum. It is likely that he reached the pinnacle of his power long before the PT. If that is not the case, then it would be impossible for anyone to ever achieve full potential.

However, even he said, I think, "much to learn, I still have" in the novelization. He learned from the spirit of Qui-Gon Jinn. That he was only able to stalemate Palpatine (despite being centuries older than him) speaks that he did not know everything and that his knowledge and technique could be increased.

Count Dooku thought that, a Yoda unrestrained by the Jedi Code, and unleashed in the Dark Side, would "be capable of annihilating even Sidious", despite a light side Yoda being only capable of stalemating him as of RotS.

That does not mean that Yoda's potential or raw power would increase, but he could learn techniques and knowledge previously beyond his reach that would increase his lethality.

Take a look. Luke is nearing his potential, I assume, every day as of LotF. He is more powerful (or should be considered as such) than every adversary he has faced - including Palpatine. But, let's be real. He doesn't have half of Yoda's or Palpatine's knowledge in the Force.

Palpatine didn't seem to have reached the apex of absolute power, even during DE. His most powerful attack was developed after his death on Endor.

I am of one to believe that knowledge and technique can increase even after a full potential.

lol, kudos to this great post.

First off, I was talking initially to VinC, whatever his name is. I wasn't talking to you until you replied to me. I know that full potential in the force, is only the force, but answer me this:


"A force user's midichlorian count dictates their connection to the force; that is, how apparent the force is to them - and makes it easier for them to sense and manipulate the force. Time spent getting used to the connection brings the force user closer to their full potential in the force, and once they have fully mastered their connection to the force, they have reached their full potential. This however has no bearing on other aspects of the force such as knowledge, alignment etc. - things which can make a force user more powerful, thus there is no fixed power level on any 'full potential' force user, as there are other variables to consider. It's pretty simple really."

How does mastering the force have no bearing on knowledge? KNowledge of the force is what allows a user to do certain feats, to "manipulate" the force. That in itself doesn't make sense. I know that Yoda's FP wouldn't be equal to Anakin's FP, theyre two different people, but Anakin OVERALL FP is higher than anyone else's, which is to include saber dueling. THAT'S what i was arguing, not what was included in "full potential force powers". Although there is the variable of using the force to aide you in saber fighting, like how Yoda does...so in that sense, yes the level of your force powers would help dictate your saber abilities. But again, thats not what i was arguing with the other person.

And what i said before about "that not making sense", was in reference to your statement about Yoda and darkside powers.

"But let's see, Yoda is outright stated to have reached his full potential in the force by ROTS, doesn't mean he wouldn't be more powerful if he knew sith magic, or even if he was a darksider, Count Dooku for one believes that he would be much more powerful as a darksider."

No, if he reached his full force power potential, learning new techniques wouldn't make him MORE powerful, just give him new techniques. Im sure that yoda could do those powers, he just doesn't utilize the dark side of the force.

The whole point of what i was arguing, was that when someone says Full Potential, it means just that FULL POTENTIAL, unless otherwise dictated by the thread starter. Agreed? Is it too much to understand that FP means every aspect? I'm not just talking to you, but to everybody. Although now that i went back to read all your previous posts, i see what you're saying, its just we weren't arguing the same thing.

And I wasn't talking bs, what i was referring to, was right. It just wasn't what you were talking about.
And if Anakin has the most midichlorians, that means he has a natural advantage to have a higher overall potential.

Escape, when speaking of Anakin;s potential BEFORE the fact, is to say that his FP would be his ultimate pinnacle. I know that when he loses his overall potential as Vader, his pinnacle then would be and is less that what Anakin's would have been. But if Anakin reached the FP that GL was referring to, it would have been his pinnacle, and would be far beyond any other force user in history. I think certain techniques make a person deadlier, but not more powerful. Yoda using darkside techniques probably would decimate Sidious, but only through those certain powers. Lightside just doesn't have the same goals in mind for power, its not their nature to want to destroy everything. But an unrestrained Yoda wouldn't be more powerful, which is what i think you were also saying, correct? That it would not make him stronger? Anyway, if you all mistook me and i mistook you all, then that was just a miscommunication and now we're clear, so bickering can stop. Fair enough?

Mastering the force is simply growing more accustomed to your force connection, knowledge isn't a factor that comes into play.



Wrong, Anakin is known for having the strongest force potential, that's all. Sure, he's clearly very prodigious with a saber, but I for one like to think of people like Bane and Luke as being more prodigious.



The force has no bearing on a force user's innate ability with a saber. Sure, the force can aid one in saber ability, but it's a complete non factor when discussing innate ability.



And learning new techniques would arguably make him more powerful.



Corrected. Midichlorian count says nothing about innate saber ability, or other skills, it only speaks of force strength.

If the force speaks nothing for saber abilities, then how come Obi-Wan stated that if Anakin actually trained more, he WOULD be on par with master Yoda in swordsmanship. This was the guy who was trained when he was way to old, and for only 10 years, it would be outrageous to state that to a normal jedi, especially considering that there were other people who had trained nearly 6 times as much as him, and yet not reached any level near his AOTC level!

Originally posted by kamikz
If the force speaks nothing for saber abilities, then how come Obi-Wan stated that if Anakin actually trained more, he WOULD be on par with master Yoda in swordsmanship. This was the guy who was trained when he was way to old, and for only 10 years, it would be outrageous to state that to a normal jedi, especially considering that there were other people who had trained nearly 6 times as much as him, and yet not reached any level near his AOTC level!

You miss my point, the force can improve someone's saber skills (reflexes, precog, force speed etc.), but not someone's innate ability, that is, how prodigious someone is with a saber.

Also add in the fact that he was the ONLY human able to podrace, and was a little kid when he did that. I know that doesn't have anything to do with sabers, but why would a person, the Chosen One, excel at everything except saber dueling? That makes no sense. By age 15 or 16 he was already far beyond his peers, so much so that his peers where already knights, or the very least older padawans on the verge of going to the trials...the kids his age couldn't touch him. Lucas said as much that Mace was more or less jealous of Anakin's progress, or rather resented it, cause it eclipsed his own progress. I believe that was in the the commentary since i know youre going to ask. Now you cant say thats only applicable to force powers cause it was never specified, much like GL's comments of him being the most powerful force user ever. Lucas never said, "well you have to understand, when i conceived the notion of making Anakin the chosen one, and giving the highest potential of all the Jedi, i dint mean to include skills with his laser sword. I wanted to be able to the best user of the force, but not so great with a sword." No, nothing like that. In fact, he gave Nick Gilliard full control over the duels and forms of saber combat, and by the end of ROTS, Anakin was a level 9, which would be the highest level, and with out reaching his overall full potential. Now we can logically deduce, that had he reached his FP and was ALREADY at the top of the food chain in saber dueling, that he would only get better, thus surpassing anyone close to him.

Mace really did get jealous of Anakin? Wow....

maybe jealous was the wrong word, but he held resentment towards him for his level of power rising so much more quickly than anyone else's, to include his own.