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I think something that's interesting about these films is that dialogue is used for mainly expositional purpose or comic effect. Very seldom does dialogue carry the scene forward or reveal the inner workings of any character.

For example, the only time we hear anyone say anything about "love" is when Will tells Elizabeth he loves her at the end of 1.

Other than that, we are given to take the characters actions and assume their feelings from those.

Governor Swann clearly dotes upon his daughter, is fearful for her life, and goes to great lengths to make sure she is safe. That can be seen as love.

Gibbs convinces the crew of the Black Pearl to go back to Port Royal and get Captain Jack... even when they already had their ship and a code to follow. That can be described as love, in a friendship/devotion sense.

Elizabeth, though never saying she loves Will on screen, becomes his fiance and sails to Tortuga to find him. We interpret this as romantic love.

So my point is, I think the idea of there needing to be "concrete evidence" for characters loving each other is a bit out of context. That isnt the name of the game with these films. We must take their actions and interpret from there.

That being said, can we call what is between Elizabeth and Jack Love, or the beginning of Love?

Good topic I completely agree. I believe that actions and expressions say more than words. And I believe that whatever is going on between Liz and Jack is a feeling of strong emotions that are turning in to care and eventually love. That was how I interpreted when I saw DMC.

I agree with you..Its very melodramatic not a domestic melodrama but one where actions and other cinematic codes speak louder than words.

Elizbaeth chaining Jack up CAN come across as many things..she's doing it for Will. She's doing it to get Jack out of her life because of her feelings, She's doing it because he hurt her earlier on by lying to her..She's doing it to slake her lust and then drown the guilt she's feeling because she's fearing something else she may feel for him other than lust methinks..

See what I notice is She wants jack to be a good man then he can have her.In the back of her mind I think she think's hes not so its an excuse not to be with him. She my actually be hoping he's not. But by the end he does come back and does the right thing, He's portrayed as a god, Its from her PoV this is exactly how she feels for him..something has errupted in her from seeing this and it interests me that this is what she fears..so if that good man is dead its easier for her to go and be with Will...but does she really want that man to remain dead?? afterall his goodness is what she loves about Jack it seems..the only aspect of him that she admires and loves..and its also the thing she uses agains him and thi is what she cant live with..she's betrayed a man she loves by using the very thing she loves about him against him and it destroys him

Well, if we want to, we can pretend all the actions are completely metaphorical for emotion. T and T consistently say that they take inner conflicts and turn them into external conflicts in the plot.

So...

When Jack and Elizabeth are trapped on the island, and (deleted scene) Jack shows Elizabeth his scars, we could say that is symbolic of his showing her all of his emotional weaknesses/past hurts. He was betrayed, mutinied, condemned for being about freedom for the slaves, etc.

Or let's talk about physical closeness. The moment in 1 where Will and Elizabeth make their first step towards physical closeness (below decks) is also their moment of greatest tension so far in the film. Symbolically, the closer they get, the more they are in conflict because of who they are inside.

Yes that first scene of closeness between Elizabeth and Will felt for them really awkward. But the 1st scene of closeness between J/L seemed pretty natural they looked comfortable with each other. And that went on on to DMC, they both were comfortable around each other, whenever Liz is with Jack she feels like she can be free to do what ever she wants.

well, and let's look at the first scene between Jack and Liz.

They are both stripped down-- Elizabeth is sans dress, sans corset. Jack has had his "effects" taken from him along with his hat.

Jack "uses" her position as governor's daughter to organize his escape, while clearly admiring her, and after saving her life. this tells us a few things about Jack. He is aesthetic. He has an "honest streak". He places heavy value on human life, but doesnt mind exploiting resources for personal gain.

And Elizabeth. She roots for the underdog. She places value on human life. She judges people by their present actions vs. their past. She gets pissed off when people objectify her. It's okay in her world to manipulate emotionally, but not physically.

(we see this theme all the way through to the kiss-- she's crossed a line. Instead of just using her emotions, she has used her physicality to gain her end).

wow kate thats a good spot there. Its very true.

And shes done it to someone she probably loves (or so it seems so far)

she did something similar to Norrington, ruined his life and showed no sympathy..she did it to Jack in movie 1 and showed no sympathy..but this time..

I hope Norrie gets a kiss before he dies.

^^ I doubt thats gonna Happen...I mean unless he gets it from those Barnicle Faced Deep Sea Creature Monsters, i dont think he will!!

Thats SAD really not even when Liz was his Fiance did he ever get any Lip action....awwww now i'm sad for him!!!

"So my point is, I think the idea of there needing to be "concrete evidence" for characters loving each other is a bit out of context. That isnt the name of the game with these films. We must take their actions and interpret from there."---------Kate

That's what makes the writing so good. Real life doesn't always provide "concrete evidence" when it comes to emotions either. Relationships are complicated and even when they say "I love you," it's still not black and white. That's part of POTC's superb writing.

You left out on relationship, though, and I think it's one of the strongest examples of love. Bootstrap volunteers to do the whipping instead of some stranger who's going to make it even more painful and drawn out. It hurts Bootstrap to do it, but he does it for Will, the son he hasn't seen in so long.