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Yeah, I said it.

I like Ultimate Marvel better than 616, hands down....maybe not forever, but for a while it's been this way.

616 Spidey is bogged down by emotional struggles without the characteristic levity and ingenuity known to the series.
Ultimate Spidey has the snappiest writing this side of a Deadpool comic, and an absolutely delicious romance with Kitty Pryde.

616 FF I've never enjoyed.
Ultimate FF, I (surprisingly) love. The recent arc with the Skrull, then the one immediately after with the Zombies, were priceless. Intelligent and clever while creating awesome characters (like Ben in the Skrull arc). And when Doom said "Hmph! This should be a challenge" like it was nothing when he stepped into Zombie-world, I thought to myself "I'd really love to read about him trapped on that planet!"

Avengers barely exist anymore.
The Ultimates is one of the best-written books out there by any company. Many others on KMC seem to agree.

X-Men, meh on both counts.

...

A big deal is always made about how Ultimate <<< 616 in terms of power levels. True enough (with a few exceptions). But I read for the intelligent stories, clever dialogue, cool fights, characters, etc. Not to see who has the best material for a respect thread. And Ultimate (imo) does that better right now.

Any other thoughts on this?

i agree, maybe not on all counts, but Ult. is def. shaping up (or already shaped up) to be pretty dam good.

I dislike ultimate world in general, but they have some good stories some times/

spiderman I feel is to depowered in the ulitmate universe.
ult capt
ult wolverine
and so on would most deffently take majorities over him from what I have read

Originally posted by capt it up
I dislike ultimate world in general, but they have some good stories some times/

spiderman I feel is to depowered in the ulitmate universe.
ult capt
ult wolverine
and so on would most deffently take majorities over him from what I have read he's not depowered....he's just a kid, you gotta give him time to develop and whatnot

I agree

I am also really happy that they have played down the major crossover things

i mean, they did have the extinction thing, and ultimate war and ultimate 6, but those were done seperatly and didnt mess up all the books.

From a compleatly logistics and marketing standpoint, I greatly prefer the Ultimate U

I am very skeptical about Ultimate Power though....

I enjoy them both the same. Doesn't have to be a competition.

I like Ultimates (not as much as most) but the 616 Avengers are in the gutter so there isn't much room for comparison in that area.

Ultimates >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Avengers, any time in their history.

I like most of the UFF characters better, but they don't have their "The Coming of Galactus" yet. There's nothing yet that matches the greatness of some of Byrne's or Lee and Kirby's stories.

Ultimate Spidey is better than 616 is in many years. But history wise, 616 still tops.

Ultimate X-men is the weak spot. Nowhere near than the 616. Specially with Kirkman.

Originally posted by capt it up
I dislike ultimate world in general, but they have some good stories some times/

spiderman I feel is to depowered in the ulitmate universe.
ult capt
ult wolverine
and so on would most deffently take majorities over him from what I have read

So all you care about is powers and not characterization?!?

No, wonder you don't like Astonishing X-men

I agree.

I like it better too.

Originally posted by Grimm22
So all you care about is powers and not characterization?!?

No, wonder you don't like Astonishing X-men

Do you TRY to track down and attack Capt It Up at every possible moment? Don't you have anything better to do?

Originally posted by Soljer
Do you TRY to track down and attack Capt It Up at every possible moment? Don't you have anything better to do?

Yes, my entire goal in life is to make Capt's life miserable

Because it has nothing to do with the fact that I came into the thread and Capt said something I found to be stupid, no I obviously just track down all of Capt's posts and mock him

Originally posted by Grimm22
Yes, my entire goal in life is to make Capt's life miserable

Because it has nothing to do with the fact that I came into the thread and Capt said something I found to be stupid, no I obviously just track down all of Capt's posts and mock him

No. Seriously. It really does seem like you try to mock Capt at any available opportunity. I mean, I don't know what past history you guys have (scorned lovers?), but it's ridiculous, and very sophomoric.

Ultimates has been in my top 5 choices since it started..... but at the moment I'm probably looking forward to more Civil War stuff than anything else.

I'm not entirely sure why, but I'm liking the gritty realistic feel of the Ultimate universe a LOT.

I mean, it seems so...human. Likely? .

I think that's one of the reasons I prefer certain Marvel comics over DC - Marvel seems a bit more realistic. And now, Ultimate seems more down to earth than 616. It's nice.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
X-Men, meh on both counts.If you compare to Astonishing then 616 takes it.

Originally posted by Soljer
No. Seriously. It really does seem like you try to mock Capt at any available opportunity. I mean, I don't know what past history you guys have (scorned lovers?), but it's ridiculous, and very sophomoric.

I personally believe that Grimm is a closet Wolverine mega-fanboy, and takes out his personal self-rejection and loathing by getting mad at a proper Wolverine fan.

For the most part I prefer 616- perhaps its the feeling of natural familiarity

I love Ultimate Hulk's dialogs, and the fact that he's like a bitchin' mix of Savage and Fixit, minus some intellegence. I'm wanting him to get his own book, and I think he has an arc coming up, so hopefully I'll see some more of him. Bottom line is:

Ultimate Hulk eats people.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
I personally believe that Grimm is a closet Wolverine mega-fanboy, and takes out his personal self-rejection and loathing by getting mad at a proper Wolverine fan. So he's the Ted Haggard/Jewish Nazi of the comic world.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
So he's the Ted Haggard/Jewish Nazi of the comic world.

Mmhmm.

Or, at least, on KMC, where Wolverine fans are a sad and discriminated race.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Yeah, I said it.

I like Ultimate Marvel better than 616, hands down....maybe not forever, but for a while it's been this way.

616 Spidey is bogged down by emotional struggles without the characteristic levity and ingenuity known to the series.
Ultimate Spidey has the snappiest writing this side of a Deadpool comic, and an absolutely delicious romance with Kitty Pryde.

616 FF I've never enjoyed.
Ultimate FF, I (surprisingly) love. The recent arc with the Skrull, then the one immediately after with the Zombies, were priceless. Intelligent and clever while creating awesome characters (like Ben in the Skrull arc). And when Doom said "Hmph! This should be a challenge" like it was nothing when he stepped into Zombie-world, I thought to myself "I'd really love to read about him trapped on that planet!"

Avengers barely exist anymore.
The Ultimates is one of the best-written books out there by any company. Many others on KMC seem to agree.

X-Men, meh on both counts.

...

A big deal is always made about how Ultimate <<< 616 in terms of power levels. True enough (with a few exceptions). But I read for the intelligent stories, clever dialogue, cool fights, characters, etc. Not to see who has the best material for a respect thread. And Ultimate (imo) does that better right now.

Any other thoughts on this?

I agree completely, except for the X-Men statement. I think Ult. X-Men is incredible myself, the best thing about the Ultimate Universe, in fact.

I, too, believe Ult. has some of the best material for respect threads.

Never could like the ultimate universe though the Ultimates has a few great action scenes I like. besides that... meh.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
I personally believe that Grimm is a closet Wolverine mega-fanboy, and takes out his personal self-rejection and loathing by getting mad at a proper Wolverine fan.

For the most part I prefer 616- perhaps its the feeling of natural familiarity

*laughs*

Psychoanalyzing a reaction formation on KMC?

Beautiful.

I also feel like 616 might have too much history. No, I'm serious.

Power upgrades, power downgrades, changes in character, deaths, resurrections, clones, Green Goblin IV, etc. Someone asked me a question the other day about Spider-Man, involving Harry, Norman, and the different versions of Goblin. And I couldn't answer it. Me. There's probably loads of people who know more Spidey minutia than me....but a casual fan shouldn't be able to stump me with something like that, and it's a testament to how screwy continuity has gotten.

And for anyone besides us comic nuts, that's too much crap to have to swallow in order to understand the characters.

Ultimate has been more structured from the beginning, and has less stupidity.

...

So yeah, CW is sweet as hell. And I have a familiarity with all the characters. But Ultimate has been doing better stories for a while now.

Ultimate Cable sucks. Maybe he is badass but currently he is low on powaaaa...
Ultimate Deadpool....Hmmm....

Ultimate Colossus...Being gay disturbs me.
Ultimate Captain America is badass along with Thor and Hawkeye.
Ultimate Silver Surfer sucked a lot...
Ultimate Wolverine is one cool mothaf'ucka...

What i really like about the Ultimate universe (Especially the Ultimates vol 2 where they fought the Aliens title and the first storyline of Ultimate X-men with Mag's attacking the white house) is that it is how I would imagine the X-men and Avengers movies should have gone.


Ultimates is one of my favourite titles but like Scoobless said I'm also becoming more interested in civil War at the moment. I like Ultimate Spidey. I have just really gotten into Ultimate FF (Greg Land's art ) and I loved Ultimate X-men up until the last couple of story lines

I can't say Im a big fan of the Ultimate Universe. I don't know why, probably due to the same familarity with the characters that others have mentioned. I like Ultimate F4, and started reading it when it first came out up until issue like 24 when Thor was coming into the white house. I then switched back to 616 F4 around issue 533 when Hulk goes nuts in Vegas because of the CW tie ins. I haven't read the Ultimates story arc although i have only heard good things on it. I did read Ultimate Nightmare, secret and extinction hoWever I got bored of it after like issue 2 of exitnction and never finsihed reading it. I have to say though 616 is still writing some good stories and is still great no matter how good the Ultimate universe stories may be.

Some good arcs from the 616 Universe and their rating IMO:

Stars:

1- poor
2- average
3- above average
4- excellent

Books Stars

1. Planet Hulk ****
2. Annihilation ****
3. Black Panther ****
4. Civil War ****
5. Iron Man ***
6. Astonishing X-Men ***
7. New Avengers **
8. Fantastic Four ***
9. Cable/Deadpool ***
10. Amazing Spiderman ***

From the Ultimate Universe that i have read:

Fantastic 4 ****
Ultimate Nightmare **
Ultimate Secret **
Ultimate Extinction *

I agree that CW and Annihilation are very good. But I'm talking more about consistent runs, rather than limited series and "events". Sure, they're entertaining, but CW's over in January, and unless they string together a bunch of great events (see HoM for why this isn't possible) that quality won't always be there.

...the only cinsistent run you graded for Ultimate is FF. I read the events when I can, but really don't care as much about them as the series'

I like 616 more. Ultimate (not counting Ultimates which is great) for the most part has been "meh" lately, with the few exeptions of Ultimate Spider-Man and X-Men which have been "BLEH!".

Hm. All in all, I prefer Ultimate, I would say... Ultimates is awesome and ultimate Spidey and FF are good (though I find 616 FF a pile of crap). Ultmate X-Men is the only title that really varies between pretty good and moderately crap...
While some 616 stuff exceeds pretty much all of he Ultimate (though very little is better than the almighty Ultimates), because of the UU's lack of pure shitness (and 616 has a lot of that), it wins overall...

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I agree that CW and Annihilation are very good. But I'm talking more about consistent runs, rather than limited series and "events". Sure, they're entertaining, but CW's over in January, and unless they string together a bunch of great events (see HoM for why this isn't possible) that quality won't always be there.

...the only cinsistent run you graded for Ultimate is FF. I read the events when I can, but really don't care as much about them as the series'


I do know what you mean when you say you prefer a good long standing series over an excellent mini series, because of the consistency. But if you want to talk about consistency, look at series like Spiderman, Uncanny X-Men, Fasntastic 4 that have been around and successful for over 30 years now. Thats pretty consistent if you ask me... I AGREE that consistency is important, but I don't agree that the Ultimate Universe has more consistent on going series than 616.

Another thing to remeber is that the Ultimate Universe has only been around for a few years now, lets not give them a pulitzer just yet. Yea they have good arcs, but lets wait and see where there at in 30 years.

In the end it all comes down to taste and opinion. To be perfectly honest I myself am gonna start reading more Ultimate stuff, cuz i do think your right about them having great stories.

Originally posted by nimbus006
I can't say Im a big fan of the Ultimate Universe. I don't know why, probably due to the same familarity with the characters that others have mentioned. I like Ultimate F4, and started reading it when it first came out up until issue like 24 when Thor was coming into the white house. I then switched back to 616 F4 around issue 533 when Hulk goes nuts in Vegas because of the CW tie ins. I haven't read the Ultimates story arc although i have only heard good things on it. I did read Ultimate Nightmare, secret and extinction hoWever I got bored of it after like issue 2 of exitnction and never finsihed reading it. I have to say though 616 is still writing some good stories and is still great no matter how good the Ultimate universe stories may be.

Some good arcs from the 616 Universe and their rating IMO:

Stars:

1- poor
2- average
3- above average
4- excellent

Books Stars

1. Planet Hulk ****
2. Annihilation ****
3. Black Panther ****
4. Civil War ****
5. Iron Man ***
6. Astonishing X-Men ***
7. New Avengers **
8. Fantastic Four ***
9. Cable/Deadpool ***
10. Amazing Spiderman ***

From the Ultimate Universe that i have read:

Fantastic 4 ****
Ultimate Nightmare **
Ultimate Secret **
Ultimate Extinction *


No wonder why you're not liking Ultimate, you're reading all the worst arcs.

Yea i must be... Fantastic 4 was good though.

how dare you rate black panther above cable/deadpool and astonishing???? SHAME!

I don't really like Ultimate Marvel
Ultimate Surfer is screwed
Ultimate Captain Marvel is also screwed
Ultimate Juggernaut screwed
Ultimate Thor looks better then 616 but he is also screwed
Ultimate Venom is most screwed in all Ultimate universe

Originally posted by manorastroman
how dare you rate black panther above cable/deadpool and astonishing???? SHAME!

C&D Last issue sucked ass, too obvious and well.. Its just bad. Its been good overall though.

Gullivers travels on the other hand (BP) sucks imo.

Originally posted by manorastroman
how dare you rate black panther above cable/deadpool and astonishing???? SHAME!

Uh cuz i like it better, I mean not by much, but i really like where the BP arc is going right now with the whole CW thing. Sorry

Originally posted by nimbus006
I do know what you mean when you say you prefer a good long standing series over an excellent mini series, because of the consistency. But if you want to talk about consistency, look at series like Spiderman, Uncanny X-Men, Fasntastic 4 that have been around and successful for over 30 years now. Thats pretty consistent if you ask me... I AGREE that consistency is important, but I don't agree that the Ultimate Universe has more consistent on going series than 616.

Successful and good are two different things. Most of those were great at one point, but recently (say, the last few years) I can't help but like Ultimate better. Ultimates, FF, and Spidey from the Ultimate universe are what do it for me, and I don't think 616 X-Men has anything on their counterparts either.

And hell, the only comic I actually have a dedicated subscription to is 616 ASM, which I obviously still enjoy. And I read a lot of the others at some point at local bookstores and such. So I'm not a full-fledged traitor here.

Originally posted by V for Valentine
C&D Last issue sucked ass, too obvious and well.. Its just bad. Its been good overall though.

Gullivers travels on the other hand (BP) sucks imo.

Really? You don't like it at all?

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
I personally believe that Grimm is a closet Wolverine mega-fanboy, and takes out his personal self-rejection and loathing by getting mad at a proper Wolverine fan.

For the most part I prefer 616- perhaps its the feeling of natural familiarity

Yes, I am secretly.......


RiceRoost!

Originally posted by nimbus006

3. Black Panther ****
6. Astonishing X-Men ***
8. Fantastic Four ***

3.Black Panther gets 4 stars?!?

Reggie Hudlin basically knows nothing about T'Challa or his stories, Marvel only hired him because if they didn't Hudlin would have gotten Al Sharpton and tried to sue them, but right now they are too busy trying to sue Cracker Barrel, so...

Black Panther gets -4 stars


6. Astonishing X-men is pure brilliance. It gets 5 stars (out of 4 )

8. Do you mean Civil War FF or Waid/Wieringo FF??

the astonishing run has basically been seventeen flawless issues (though part of danger was a little slow, it was overall an excellent arc). seriously, i don't think there's ever been a better run in mainstream comics (that i've read). it's so, so good on every level.

Originally posted by manorastroman
the astonishing run has basically been seventeen flawless issues (though part of danger was a little slow, it was overall an excellent arc). seriously, i don't think there's ever been a better run in mainstream comics (that i've read). it's so, so good on every level.

Dark Phoneix Saga?

Both universes have their high points.

For me, 616 has:

Civil War
Moon Knight
Planet Hulk
Astonishing X-Men

... plus more I'm forgetting I'm sure.

Ultimate has:

The Ultimates
Ult. Spider-Man
Ult. FF
Some Ult. X-Men

... and so forth.

I don't think I can choose one over the other. I read comics from the respective universes for different reasons, and when I say that, I mean I go into them expecting different things and with separate moods.

I liked getting the best of both worlds.

Originally posted by SnakeEyes
Moon Knight


Is this series any good?

I've been thinking about picking it up

I adore The Ultimates, it's one of the most inspired things Marvel has done in years. Both in terms of writing and art. But on the whole, I can't say that the Ultimate verse is an improvement. It may be slightly more realistic and grounded, but the character developement is lacking, imo. And I freakin' hate Ultimate Spiderman. He's one of the worst things from the UU.

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
I enjoy them both the same. Doesn't have to be a competition.

But if it was a competition, I would win

Originally posted by Grimm22
Is this series any good?

I've been thinking about picking it up

I like it quite a bit.

It's pretty violent/gory/dark if you're into that kind of thing.

Originally posted by SnakeEyes
I like it quite a bit.

It's pretty violent/gory/dark if you're into that kind of thing.

Hmm

Maybe, i'll pick up the back issues once I get some more money

Originally posted by Grimm22
So all you care about is powers and not characterization?!?

No, wonder you don't like Astonishing X-men
No Not at all, becuase if I cared about power only then I would be a thor fan in which case I am not.

No I do like astonishing x-men I how ever know that the writter tends to right some characters incorrectly mainly Logan which the writter has not only admitted, but shown. One good example is having wolverine be comidy relief which is totaly out of character for Logan.

Originally posted by capt it up
No Not at all, becuase if I cared about power only then I would be a thor fan in which case I am not.

No I do like astonishing x-men I how ever know that the writter tends to right some characters incorrectly mainly Logan which the writter has not only admitted, but shown. One good example is having wolverine be comidy relief which is totaly out of character for Logan.

How is that out of character?

Its awesome

Rather than making Wolverine do the same thing he's done in other x-titles for the past 30 years, Whendon did something different and made us realize that even Wolverine has a potential for humor

Wolverine hasn't been portrayed this well since the Dark Phoenix Saga

Originally posted by Grimm22
How is that out of character?

Its awesome

Rather than making Wolverine do the same thing he's done in other x-titles for the past 30 years, Whendon did something different and made us realize that even Wolverine has a potential for humor

Wolverine hasn't been portrayed this well since the Dark Phoenix Saga
How is it out of character? To have one of the most serous and deadly hero's to be making silly jokes is complete out of character.

You wonder why I don't think you read wolverine and this is a perfect example.


They should have left Logan out of the comic line all to gather. The writer has no idea how to write him and has admitted it. It clear he does no belong in that writers view so why have him there? They have him there to boost sales which is quite dumb since if they took him out and add a character that the writer feels he can write well then the comic would sell even better.

also please reframe from saying how well logan being written becuase you clearly are not a fan of his nor do you understand how he should be written.

Wolverine has done some badass stuff in Astonishing.

And bringing his kid persona on wasn't really off-character - there is no denying it, Wolverine was a pussy while he was a kid. One of the pussiest kids I have ever seen, actually.

I don't really have a preference. If I compare the two, I'm just gonna ruin one or the other. If I compared Ultimate Thor as a character as upposed to his 616 version, I'd just keep wonderin when he was gonna stop with the hippie crap.

Originally posted by capt it up
How is it out of character? To have one of the most serous and deadly hero's to be making silly jokes is complete out of character.

You wonder why I don't think you read wolverine and this is a perfect example.


They should have left Logan out of the comic line all to gather. The writer has no idea how to write him and has admitted it. It clear he does no belong in that writers view so why have him there? They have him there to boost sales which is quite dumb since if they took him out and add a character that the writer feels he can write well then the comic would sell even better.

also please reframe from saying how well logan being written becuase you clearly are not a fan of his nor do you understand how he should be written.

He's still badass, he's still Wolverine

He hasn't really made jokes or anything like that, it's just shows a different side of Wolverine

And actually, I love astonishing Wolverine, it brings me back to Classic Wolverine days

Originally posted by Grimm22
3.Black Panther gets 4 stars?!?

Reggie Hudlin basically knows nothing about T'Challa or his stories, Marvel only hired him because if they didn't Hudlin would have gotten Al Sharpton and tried to sue them, but right now they are too busy trying to sue Cracker Barrel, so...

Black Panther gets -4 stars


6. Astonishing X-men is pure brilliance. It gets 5 stars (out of 4 )

8. Do you mean Civil War FF or Waid/Wieringo FF??

I think where the Panther stories are right now are great. I'm just glad he is finally getting some respect in the Marvel Universe. Finally, he is palying a major role.

Yea i agree Astonishing is great. I'd give it 3 1/2 if there was a half star on my key board.

I'm talking about current F4, so yea CW tie-in F4.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Successful and good are two different things. Most of those were great at one point, but recently (say, the last few years) I can't help but like Ultimate better. Ultimates, FF, and Spidey from the Ultimate universe are what do it for me, and I don't think 616 X-Men has anything on their counterparts either.

And hell, the only comic I actually have a dedicated subscription to is 616 ASM, which I obviously still enjoy. And I read a lot of the others at some point at local bookstores and such. So I'm not a full-fledged traitor here.

Usually something is successful because it is good. Nothing lasts 30 + years without being good, but if you feel that the stories are getting crappy... well to each his own, that's your opinion. And I'm not calling you a traitor...lol I'm just stating my opinion on why I prefer 616 over Ultimate. No one is right or wrong. They're opinions and people have different ones. If people didn't have different tastes everybody would buy the same comics, and this forum would be pretty boring.

Successful and good are not entire mutually exclusive, true.

But they aren't entire inclusive, either.

For example, I may believe that a film that goes into existential issues is a better film than a action-packed-summer-blockbuster, because it makes me think, and I enjoy philosophy. However, the blockbuster may very well make more at the box office.

There are plenty of cult films that are GREAT films, but not particularly successful ones.

In summation; sometimes media (in all its forms, comics included) cater to the masses. When this happens, the quality may very well be decreased in order to please everyone. The quality of the story might even go to SHIT, so long as everyone's happy. Is the book necessarily better just because more people like it?

I read alot of the Ultimate stuff when it started out, but to be honest the only book i would honestly consider reading nowadays on a permanent basis is Ultimates. X-Men was ok, but went downhill after a while (and is, nor never was on par with 616 x-men imo). I could just never get into Ult. Spidey, i dunno why, it just wasnt for me...

For me it would be a clean sweep for 616 (Astonishing X-Men, Cable & Deadpool, the Marvel Knights series's) if not for the brilliance of Ultimates...

Originally posted by Grimm22
He's still badass, he's still Wolverine

He hasn't really made jokes or anything like that, it's just shows a different side of Wolverine

And actually, I love astonishing Wolverine, it brings me back to Classic Wolverine days

Originally posted by Grimm22
He's still badass, he's still Wolverine

He hasn't really made jokes or anything like that, it's just shows a different side of Wolverine

And actually, I love astonishing Wolverine, it brings me back to Classic Wolverine days

Originally posted by Validus

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Wolverine has done some badass stuff in Astonishing.

And bringing his kid persona on wasn't really off-character - there is no denying it, Wolverine was a pussy while he was a kid. One of the pussiest kids I have ever seen, actually.
that never should have worked. You know the amount of times logan been un control able or even able to be mest with on a phyic level. That enevr should have happen and if you look back through his history the only times he been mested with a phyic level mean from a phyic attack has all been in astonishing x-men.

Originally posted by Grimm22
He's still badass, he's still Wolverine
yes and no he more or less a joke in astonishing and is portrayed nothing like the normal wolverine on average.

Originally posted by Grimm22
He hasn't really made jokes or anything like that, it's just shows a different side of Wolverine
different side? No it showing another character that is not logan. Yes he has some rare good moments how ever he made to look like a joke constantly it quite dumb and totaly against his character.

AOriginally posted by Grimm22

It nothing like clasic wolverine. You just enjoy seeing logan look dumb that all.

He written out of character repeatedly through out astonishing x-men.

Originally posted by nimbus006
I think where the Panther stories are right now are great. I'm just glad he is finally getting some respect in the Marvel Universe. Finally, he is palying a major role.

Yea i agree Astonishing is great. I'd give it 3 1/2 if there was a half star on my key board.

I'm talking about current F4, so yea CW tie-in F4.

Yeah, I guess you could consider BP to be a good book, you know if you ignore the shallow writing and repetitive drive by Hudlin to make everyone in the MU who he doesn't like Racist?!?

Seriously, Doom himself is half-gypsy, why the **** would he be racist?!?

Obviously Capt hasn't read the latest issue of Astonishing

I just love one line:

Beast: And You?

Wolveirne: Had a beer

Beast: Same basic principle

(Note: This is after Beast explains how he got out of Nova's Mind Control)

Originally posted by Grimm22
Obviously Capt hasn't read the latest issue of Astonishing

I just love one line:

Beast: And You?

Wolveirne: Had a beer

Beast: Same basic principle

(Note: This is after Beast explains how he got out of Nova's Mind Control)
I know what happen and I read astonishing I never said it was bad I said it characterization of logan is out of character.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Obviously Capt hasn't read the latest issue of Astonishing

I just love one line:

Beast: And You?

Wolveirne: Had a beer

Beast: Same basic principle

(Note: This is after Beast explains how he got out of Nova's Mind Control)

That was a great line.

Another one:

Wolverine: Pfft! That's what friends are for.

Beast: I'm fairly certain it's not.


Whedon impresses me with every issue. He delivers some great lines.

Originally posted by H. S. 6
That was a great line.

Another one:

Wolverine: Pfft! That's what friends are for.

Beast: I'm fairly certain it's not.


Whedon impresses me with every issue. He delivers some great lines.

Indeed

I can't wait till the next issue. It took me a couple times to figure out the entire situation, but now I understand it

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Wolverine has done some badass stuff in Astonishing.

And bringing his kid persona on wasn't really off-character - there is no denying it, Wolverine was a pussy while he was a kid. One of the pussiest kids I have ever seen, actually.





Origins was great though....but he was still a pussy.

Sometimes the Ultimate universe is nice...




But I still prefer 616...for now.

Originally posted by capt it up
I know what happen and I read astonishing I never said it was bad I said it characterization of logan is out of character.

Let's seee, Logan still is the gruff Badass with an additude

How the hell is that out of character?!?

Originally posted by Grimm22
Let's seee, Logan still is the gruff Badass with an additude

How the hell is that out of character?!?

It's not, silly goose.

Capt is just angry that Logan isn't his current uber-healing-star-of-the-show self.

Originally posted by capt it up
I know what happen and I read astonishing I never said it was bad I said it characterization of logan is out of character.

try dating girls instead of canadians.

Originally posted by Soljer
Successful and good are not entire mutually exclusive, true.

But they aren't entire inclusive, either.

For example, I may believe that a film that goes into existential issues is a better film than a action-packed-summer-blockbuster, because it makes me think, and I enjoy philosophy. However, the blockbuster may very well make more at the box office.

There are plenty of cult films that are GREAT films, but not particularly successful ones.

In summation; sometimes media (in all its forms, comics included) cater to the masses. When this happens, the quality may very well be decreased in order to please everyone. The quality of the story might even go to SHIT, so long as everyone's happy. Is the book necessarily better just because more people like it?

Not to disagree with you, but you do you ever wonder if the majority of people like or enjoy something ( such as a movie, book, etc...), but for some reason you don't, cuz you think its shit, then maybe you're the one that has bad taste in quality.

And I'm not being sarcastic or anything, Im honestly asking, cuz alot of the time i feel the same way you do, and i ask myself maybe I'm the one with poor taste... just some food for thought.

Originally posted by nimbus006
Not to disagree with you, but you do you ever wonder if the majority of people like or enjoy something ( such as a movie, book, etc...), but for some reason you don't, cuz you think its shit, then maybe you're the one that has bad taste in quality.

And I'm not being sarcastic or anything, Im honestly asking, cuz alot of the time i feel the same way you do, and i ask myself maybe I'm the one with poor taste... just some food for thought.

There is no "poor taste," just as there is no right or wrong opinion.

Thats what i always say, howver some people have really strong opinions.

Originally posted by Zahit
try dating girls instead of canadians.



wait wait wait wait. Do you really think there are no canadian girls?





any ways I not into canadians I like irish girls

Originally posted by H. S. 6
It's not, silly goose.

Capt is just angry that Logan isn't his current uber-healing-star-of-the-show self.

Not at all I just do like seeing a serous character star making dumb jokes all the time. I also don't like seing a character known for his mind being to hard to control running around like a little girl. I also don't like hearing the comic writter state he has no idea how to write "wolverine".

Originally posted by Grimm22
Let's seee, Logan still is the gruff Badass with an additude

How the hell is that out of character?!?
No he now a joke making retard. He has so good points, but mostly it crap they should just get rid of him there no point in watching a writer kill a character.

Originally posted by capt it up
No he now a joke making retard. He has so good points, but mostly it crap they should just get rid of him there no point in watching a writer kill a character.

So if Wolverine isn't healing from ridiculous injuries or acting like an ass to everyone and saying he's the best at what he does he's a retard?!?

How is he out of character when it's a different universe?

If I had to pick Ultimates or 616, I would go Ulitmate (dispite not liking it nearly as much as 616) in the hopes that it one day phases out 616. What I'd like Marvel to reboot 616 continuity and take a more Wildstorm approach geared towards an adult audience. The Ultimates is good but the rest of the Ultiverse is too milk and cookies for me to realy get impersed in and with the exception of a few titles 616 has been pretty bland and generic for awhile. I can't see a more adult tone hurting there sales much... I think I'm the youngest regular at my local comic shop and I never see kids buying anything the flavor of the month trading cards when I'm there.

Colossus is gay, Venom is a cancer cure, Carnage is... blood, both Spider-man and Wolverine are depowered...
I hate Ultimate Marvel.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Obviously Capt hasn't read the latest issue of Astonishing

I just love one line:

Beast: And You?

Wolveirne: Had a beer

Beast: Same basic principle

(Note: This is after Beast explains how he got out of Nova's Mind Control)


I like the fact that beast is getting more respect in those story lines and not just a character jumping around in the Background

Originally posted by Howard_Jones
How is he out of character when it's a different universe?

It's not.

Originally posted by capt it up
Not at all I just do like seeing a serous character star making dumb jokes all the time. I also don't like seing a character known for his mind being to hard to control running around like a little girl. I also don't like hearing the comic writter state he has no idea how to write "wolverine". Capt, please shut up. And the whole "Woleverine Can't Be Mind Controlled" thing is stupid anyway. What the Hell was up with house of M? Why should it be Wolvie? I don't remember reading a profile stating he now has the mutant power to "not be mind raped"...

Originally posted by Doc Potato
M? Why should it be Wolvie? I don't remember reading a profile stating he now has the mutant power to "not be mind raped"...

The reason Wolverine could remember the past during H.o.M is because he wanted to remember everything, so he remembered the events before H.O.M. However this didn't make it any less of an excuse just to feature Logan in a big crossover in an attempt to boost sales.

Originally posted by willRules
The reason Wolverine could remember the past during H.o.M is because he wanted to remember everything, so he remembered the events before H.O.M. However this didn't make it any less of an excuse just to feature Logan in a big crossover in an attempt to boost sales.

Gotta love the Bendis Boner. He's got a man crush on the most popular characters in the MU, but evidently hates Thor. It's sad.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Colossus is gay, Venom is a cancer cure, Carnage is... blood, both Spider-man and Wolverine are depowered...
I hate Ultimate Marvel.

I like Ult. Venom

In the aftermath of the Spider-Man game he is a lot more like Venom should be, not some stupid monster, rather Brock has control of the suit now

Also, I like Wolverine and Spidey not being superpowerful in Ult. Marvel

two- words to make people like the Ultimate universe...........
















Captain America

Originally posted by capt it up
Not at all I just do like seeing a serous character star making dumb jokes all the time. I also don't like seing a character known for his mind being to hard to control running around like a little girl. I also don't like hearing the comic writter state he has no idea how to write "wolverine".

Considering who's controlling him its shouldn't be that far of a stretch. Cassandra Nova or Emma Frost are both top-level and skilled telepaths. Some hairy canadian shouldn't be that hard to control even with animalistic tendencies. Thats like me saying i don't like how She-Hulk is portrayed if she loses to say Iron-Man even though she beats guys like Thanos in her book.

Originally posted by willRules
two- words to make people like the Ultimate universe...........

Captain America

True

Both, 616 Cap and Ult. Cap are some of my favorite characters in comics

Essentially they are both really the same character, but Ult. Cap has a more realistic personality when it comes to today's culture

They are both dogs of war, its just that 616 Cap doesn't act like as much of a tough guy and more like a figure of authority

Originally posted by willRules
two- words to make people like the Ultimate universe...........
















Captain America


ultimate captain America is a jingoist *******. He's U.S agent without the jobber weakness.

Thats enough reason form me not to like him. Ultimate quicksilver is cool though even if he does have the creepy incest vibe going on.

Originally posted by Grimm22
I like Ult. Venom

In the aftermath of the Spider-Man game he is a lot more like Venom should be, not some stupid monster, rather Brock has control of the suit now

Also, I like Wolverine and Spidey not being superpowerful in Ult. Marvel

I agree about Venom.

But about the last part of your post: Ultimate Wolverine was cut in half by the Hulk and still managed to reconstitute himself, and when he lost a foot he said it was no big deal and it barely hurted.
Ultimate Wolverine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 616 Wolverine. And doesn't have the humor or the samurai honor of the regular version. He's by far the most annoying Ultimate character.

Originally posted by Black Adam
ultimate captain America is a jingoist *******. He's U.S agent without the jobber weakness.

Thats enough reason form me not to like him. Ultimate quicksilver is cool though even if he does have the creepy incest vibe going on.

Bah

Ult. Cap is the man! He's still Cap, just more realistic

Originally posted by Grimm22
Bah

Ult. Cap is the man! He's still Cap, just more realistic

He's u.s agent

Originally posted by Black Adam
ultimate captain America is a jingoist *******. He's U.S agent without the jobber weakness.

But isn't that what makes him such a great character in the ultimate Universe????? He's a jerk and his morales are slightly more screwed up than 616 but he is still cool

Originally posted by willRules
But isn't that what makes him such a great character in the ultimate Universe????? He's a jerk and his morales are slightly more screwed up than 616 but he is still cool

He's a jerk?!?

Would you rather see him handing out lollypops in the streets?

He's a soldier, he knows that when things have to get done, they have to get done

Originally posted by Grimm22
He's a jerk?!?

Yes.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Would you rather see him handing out lollypops in the streets?

Yes.

Originally posted by Grimm22
He's a soldier, he knows that when things have to get done, they have to get done

Yes.

Ult. Cap rocks. He is truly the greatest character in the UU... though ya gotta love Ultimate valkyrie...

Ultimate Wolverine has mind blocks that keep physics out. 616 Wolverine does not.

Originally posted by Fanboy
Ultimate Wolverine has mind blocks that keep physics out. 616 Wolverine does not.

... Yes he does.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
... Yes he does.

Nope...

Originally posted by Omega-level
Nope...
yes he does hell they just stated in wolverine civil war run he has one as well given to him by prof. x

Originally posted by capt it up
yes he does hell they just stated in wolverine civil war run he has one as well given to him by prof. x

I don't remember him saying that in the Civil War tie ins.

Wolverine can keep out up to level 9 telepaths right?

Originally posted by capt it up
wait wait wait wait. Do you really think there are no canadian girls?





any ways I not into canadians I like irish girls

I met a few Canadians they actually said eh.

late, but why not...

Originally posted by capt it up
any ways I not into canadians I like irish girls

heh, ironic...

Originally posted by capt it up
Not at all I just do like seeing a serous character star making dumb jokes all the time. I also don't like seing a character known for his mind being to hard to control running around like a little girl. I also don't like hearing the comic writter state he has no idea how to write "wolverine".

cassandra nova... there's probably nobody alive in marvel who could resist her powers, she's xavier minus the niceness... having logan not controlled by her would have been stupid...

Originally posted by Doc Potato
Capt, please shut up. And the whole "Woleverine Can't Be Mind Controlled" thing is stupid anyway. What the Hell was up with house of M? Why should it be Wolvie? I don't remember reading a profile stating he now has the mutant power to "not be mind raped"...

i hated that also... the one guy in all of marvel who happens to not be affected... yeah, riiiight...

Originally posted by willRules
The reason Wolverine could remember the past during H.o.M is because he wanted to remember everything, so he remembered the events before H.O.M. However this didn't make it any less of an excuse just to feature Logan in a big crossover in an attempt to boost sales.

and it's an awfully stupid way around it, considering they didnt even give cyclops the ability to walk around without shades (considering its probably the one thing more than anything he's always wanted)

Originally posted by Howard_Jones
Gotta love the Bendis Boner. He's got a man crush on the most popular characters in the MU, but evidently hates Thor. It's sad.

bendis... hack.

ult. hulk sucks
ultimate galactus sucks
ultimate silver surfer sucks
ultimate thor sucks.

Originally posted by xmeat
ult. hulk sucks
ultimate galactus sucks
ultimate silver surfer sucks
ultimate thor sucks.

Ult. xmeat sucks
616 xmeat sucks
AoA xmeat sucks
Real xmeat sucks

Oh Snap! There's me stating the obvious again

Originally posted by "V"
Ult. v sucks
616 v sucks
AoA v sucks
Real v sucks

Oh Snap! There's me stating the obvious again i could of told you that.

Originally posted by "V"
Ult. xmeat sucks
616 xmeat sucks
AoA xmeat sucks
Real xmeat sucks

Indeed.

Originally posted by xmeat
i could of told you that.

Oh Noes! xmeat proves how stupid he is once again, if you took the time to look who posted.. you would realise my username is "V". Jeez, you 'tard.

Now because I'm such an upstanding member of society and I don't think mods take nicely to people spamming up their threads with arguments (entertaining as they are).

Ultimate X-men = Meh.
Ultimate FF = Alright
Ultimates = Superb (If you can wait a year for the issues to come out).
Ultimate Spiderman = Piss Poor

The ultimate line is dieing out, at first it was all fresh and new and pretty awesome to be honest. Every one of the titles was well written and it had nice art, but now the writing's gone extremely down hill. Kirkman is doing his worst work on X-men, Bendis is bastardizing Spiderman doesn't look like he'll be leaving any time soon either. I can live with FF.. Ultimates is going so slow It's pathetic and rather ludicrous to be honest. I honestly reckon it's just going to get worse by Ultimates 3 anyways.

Just my 2 cents.

Originally posted by "V"
Oh Noes! xmeat proves how stupid he is once again, if you took the time to look who posted.. you would realise my username is "V". Jeez, you 'tard.

Now because I'm such an upstanding member of society and I don't think mods take nicely to people spamming up their threads with arguments (entertaining as they are).

Ultimate X-men = Meh.
Ultimate FF = Alright
Ultimates = Superb (If you can wait a year for the issues to come out).
Ultimate Spiderman = Piss Poor

The ultimate line is dieing out, at first it was all fresh and new and pretty awesome to be honest. Every one of the titles was well written and it had nice art, but now the writing's gone extremely down hill. Kirkman is doing his worst work on X-men, Bendis is bastardizing Spiderman doesn't look like he'll be leaving any time soon either. I can live with FF.. Ultimates is going so slow It's pathetic and rather ludicrous to be honest. I honestly reckon it's just going to get worse by Ultimates 3 anyways.

Just my 2 cents. your nam4e is v idiot forget the postrefies

Originally posted by xmeat
your nam4e is v idiot forget the postrefies

My nam4e?

postrefies?

I think I know my own name, know when to shut up dude, I changed the subject to something on topic. I advise you to do so aswell.

The Ultimates? Orgasm.

I've read an issue or two of Ultimate X-Men, Spiderman, and Fantastic Four. I wasn't really impressed. I mean, the Ult. Fantastic Four are more interesting than 616...but...that's not saying much.

Ultimates, though, I like.

The earlier issues of Ultimate Spider-Man were gold, on par with the earlier Ultimates. The writing went down hill, though, for a while, but recently it's been picking back up with the Ultimate Clone Saga story (which was far, far superior to its 616 counterpart).

I myself have liked the storylines and more modern issues dealt with in them, some of the artwork is refreshing also.

ultimate is better. Marvel's quality is in the gutter nowadays

616 still has alot imo...

the x-men imo are far superior (in characterization and representation) in 616 than they are in the ultimate universe...

deadpool is still one of the funniest characters ever...

i like the older spidey that's around now, namor, cap during civil war before his surrender etc...

616 hulk, pym, wasp, hawkeye (though ultimate hawkeye is a badass in every sense of the word), all to me are what makes me prefer 616...

ultimate avengers are better than new and mighty avengers not classic avengers team two many heroes were on that team i wish marvel bring them back.

Originally posted by xmeat
ultimate avengers are better than new and mighty avengers not classic avengers team two many heroes were on that team i wish marvel bring them back.

i haven't liked 616 avengers since bendis came along... before then, i was a massive fan...

new avenger's is kick ass I love the team.

Honestly, I prefer 616

But right now, I prefer the Ult. Universe for some things

For instance..

Ultimates >>>> Any Avengers Book Right now

Ult. Spidey >> 616 Spidey Books

However,

616 Fantastic Four >> Ult. Fantastic Four

and of course

Any X-Book >>>>>>>>>>>> Ult. Xmen

Originally posted by Grimm22
Honestly, I prefer 616

But right now, I prefer the Ult. Universe for some things

For instance..

Ultimates >>>> Any Avengers Book Right now

Ult. Spidey >> 616 Spidey Books

However,

616 Fantastic Four >> Ult. Fantastic Four

and of course

Any X-Book >>>>>>>>>>>> Ult. Xmen

i agree with all but the spidey part...

Originally posted by Grimm22
Honestly, I prefer 616

But right now, I prefer the Ult. Universe for some things

For instance..

Ultimates >>>> Any Avengers Book Right now

Ult. Spidey >> 616 Spidey Books

However,

616 Fantastic Four >> Ult. Fantastic Four

and of course

Any X-Book >>>>>>>>>>>> Ult. Xmen
I agree with every thign acpt


I like 616 enw avengers better then ultimate.

I love the team. I always wanted a team such as this. The only thing I reggret is there no capt on the team

als 616 spiderman>>>ulitmate

though ulitmate has some great lines

Originally posted by capt it up
I agree with every thign acpt


I like 616 enw avengers better then ultimate.

I love the team. I always wanted a team such as this. The only thing I reggret is there no capt on the team

als 616 spiderman>>>ulitmate

though ultimate has some great lines

Aside from some badass stuff in the last issue of ASM, it really wasn't that great

Ult. Spidey is essentially the book that made me a big comic reader, so i'll always love it (except for the Deadpool arc)

As for New Avengers, its garbage

Its not the avengers, its a bunch of guys who think they are the avengers and Dr. Strange's Gay Cousin Phil

i actually (sorry to disagree, but i do) hate the modern avengers... the avengers is supposed to be marvel's equivalent of the jla, and look what they have on the team nowadays...

we're talking about guys like cap, iron man, thor, pym, vision and hawkeye... they set the standard...

and what have they got now? cage? spider-man? logan?

not exactly the best of the best is it?

Originally posted by pr1983
i actually (sorry to disagree, but i do hate the modern avengers... the avengers is supposed to be marvel's equivalent of the jla, and look what they have on the team nowadays...

we're talking about guys like cap, iron man, thor, pym, vision and hawkeye...

and what have they got now? cage? spider-man? logan?

not exactly the best of the best is it?

Then again look at some of the guys they let in the JLA nowadays

I mean Black Lightning? He's cool and all, but he isn't JLA material if you ask me

Originally posted by Grimm22
Then again look at some of the guys they let in the JLA nowadays

I mean Black Lightning? He's cool and all, but he isn't JLA material if you ask me

of course he isn't, but they still have superman, wonder woman, GL and batman... they have the core of the team, and i wouldn't be surprised if j'onn or the flash is a new addition soon enough...

Jonn is currently slated to join the Outsiders i do believe...

Originally posted by Grimm22
Aside from some badass stuff in the last issue of ASM, it really wasn't that great

Ult. Spidey is essentially the book that made me a big comic reader, so i'll always love it (except for the Deadpool arc)

As for New Avengers, its garbage

Its not the avengers, its a bunch of guys who think they are the avengers and Dr. Strange's Gay Cousin Phil
no way it a great group and I find it a kick ass team

Originally posted by pr1983
i actually (sorry to disagree, but i do) hate the modern avengers... the avengers is supposed to be marvel's equivalent of the jla, and look what they have on the team nowadays...

we're talking about guys like cap, iron man, thor, pym, vision and hawkeye... they set the standard...

and what have they got now? cage? spider-man? logan?

not exactly the best of the best is it?


capt and hawlk eye would lose to pritty much any one on the new avengers..... hell all the people you named would take them the majority........ wolverine or spiderman would take pym the majorty as well........so really I am not seeing your point........

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Jonn is currently slated to join the Outsiders i do believe...

really?

Originally posted by capt it up
capt and hawlk eye would lose to pritty much any one on the new avengers..... hell all the people you named would take them the majority........ wolverine or spiderman would take pym the majorty as well........so really I am not seeing your point........



they all compliment each other, they're a proper team... every single one of those is a legend in hero circles...

its not about who beats who... half of the new avengers aren't fit to be called avengers imo...

and even if it was... hawkeye and cap would get their fair share of wins against most street levellers in marvel...

Originally posted by pr1983
really?





At the end of the mini it said expect to see Jonn in a grop who works outside the lines.



I assumed Outsiders.

Originally posted by pr1983
really?





they all compliment each other, they're a proper team... every single one of those is a legend in hero circles...

its not about who beats who... half of the new avengers aren't fit to be called avengers imo...

and even if it was... hawkeye and cap would get their fair share of wins against most street levellers in marvel...


Wolverine and spiderman are nto legends? There two of the most known hero in the marvel universe.



also dnany and cage it there turn to shine and show the world there world class hero's. The avengers have always been about that as well remeber how hawlk started as a nobody, but became one of the msot known and respected hero in marvel


I think they can be quite the team. Danny and cage are kick ass togather. Wolverine and spiderman a good to gather and wolverine and spider woman are as well. Each character can fill in the roles to make this team one of the greatets.

My only prolem with NA is that they're tank is class 25 and their Thor seems to have turned into a gay man named winston.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
At the end of the mini it said expect to see Jonn in a grop who works outside the lines.



I assumed Outsiders.

maybe... thought seeing him in the last issue of GL gave me the impression he'd have some sort of relationship with the league...

Originally posted by capt it up
Wolverine and spiderman are nto legends? There two of the most known hero in the marvel universe.



also dnany and cage it there turn to shine and show the world there world class hero's. The avengers have always been about that as well remeber how hawlk started as a nobody, but became one of the msot known and respected hero in marvel


I think they can be quite the team. Danny and cage are kick ass togather. Wolverine and spiderman a good to gather and wolverine and spider woman are as well. Each character can fill in the roles to make this team one of the greatets.

Spidey? maybe... Logan, No. i said legend, that's a big, big word... very few heroes can even claim it.

but thats just it... we have to wait 50 years for danny and cage to maybe reach the same heights as someone like hawkeye?

and for me, cage is a bit... well... bleh... i know this seems a bit cruel, but i guarantee you that if he was white he wouldn't be on that team...

i really disagree with this team... and the fact that they can even begin to try and call themselves avengers just... well, i honestly don't like it...

Originally posted by Martian_mind
My only prolem with NA is that they're tank is class 25 and their Thor seems to have turned into a gay man named winston.

true there tank si weak, but maybe luke can step it up

there average lower tier characters are more powerful however.


doc strange is a bad ass he will be again.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
My only prolem with NA is that they're tank is class 25 and their Thor seems to have turned into a gay man named winston.

that too...

Originally posted by pr1983
maybe... thought seeing him in the last issue of GL gave me the impression he'd have some sort of relationship with the league...



Spidey? maybe... Logan, No. i said legend, that's a big, big word... very few heroes can even claim it.

Wolverine is the most famous mutant. he has been stated in countless comic as being a legend. The "legendary wolverine". He known all over the world.

Originally posted by pr1983
but thats just it... we have to wait 50 years for danny and cage to maybe reach the same heights as someone like hawkeye?

that a big exaggeration. It a new team they will be as effective as the nro avenegr in due time.

Originally posted by pr1983
and for me, cage is a bit... well... bleh... i know this seems a bit cruel, but i guarantee you that if he was white he wouldn't be on that team...

i really disagree with this team... and the fact that they can even begin to try and call themselves avengers just... well, i honestly don't like it...

why? Tehy ahev well known hero that are legendary. They have semi famous hero who will become famous just as hawlk eye did and many others.

It seems you judge them to harshly. it takes time just like it did for many of the other avenegers.

Originally posted by capt it up
Wolverine is the most famous mutant. he has been stated in countless comic as being a legend. The "legendary wolverine". He known all over the world.

paris hilton is probably the most famous woman in the world... and as for calling him 'legendary', well, we all know how much marvel loves its golden boy...



as the what?



who? Spidey? other than him who is there... logan? no. strange, as good as he is, no, he's above the hero thing mostly. cage? danny? jessica? luke? not one of them... even the pre civil war avengers were pushing it a little...



why should, i, or any other fan of the original avengers have to put up with these pretenders coming in and claiming that berth? or have to wait years for them to be even uttered in the same breath as those who've come before them?

pym, hawkeye, wasp, thor, tony, they're atm all alive... all you'd need is thor and cap, and suddenly you have the avengers back together... and they'd, imo, be the best avengers team of all, not because they're the most powerful, not because they're all cool, but because, to paraphrase certain writers, "they're the best at what they do..."

The only member of the New Avengers I consider to be an avenger is Spider-Woman

And thats only because she has boobs

Originally posted by Grimm22
The only member of the New Avengers I consider to be an avenger is Spider-Woman

And thats only because she has boobs

mmmm... boobs... drool

I love Danny Rand and Luke Cage. Seriously, I do. I've wanted them to have a new title for years...

But they aren't avengers.

Neither is Logan.

Neither is Spiderman.

Doc Strange SURE AS SHIT isn't.

*shakes head*

New Avengers AREN'T Avengers. Meh.

Originally posted by Soljer
I love Danny Rand and Luke Cage. Seriously, I do. I've wanted them to have a new title for years...

But they aren't avengers.

Neither is Logan.

Neither is Spiderman.

Doc Strange SURE AS SHIT isn't.

*shakes head*

New Avengers AREN'T Avengers. Meh.

totally agree... you said what i wanted to, but with less of a rant about the injustices of marvel and bendis...

Spider-Man was a reserve Avenger from ages ago.