Mexican Deportation

Robtard

Originally posted by Bardock42
Nations and borders are kinda random though. I dunno, I think thinks that do not really make much sense are idiotic in my opinion (cause really, for who are the random citizenships we have now an advantage?).

I wouldn't say it is a fault too much, but I can see where the views come from.

In your case, the advantage to living in Germany and being a German citizen would be social and economic benefits. Would you be alright if Germany spent your tax dollars in building/paying or schools/teachers in Guatemala, Hospitals/doctors in Nigeria and paid retirement benefits to people in Iceland instead of investing that money back into Germany and on the German people first and foremost?

WrathfulDwarf

Anyone else notice this is rather insultive for the Mexican governement:

I mean the kid is practically saying "could you help my mom stay away from your country?"

Bardock42

Originally posted by Robtard
In your case, the advantage to living in Germany and being a German citizen would be social and economic benefits. Would you be alright if Germany spent your tax dollars in building/paying or schools/teachers in Guatemala, Hospitals/doctors in Nigeria and paid retirement benefits to people in Iceland instead of investing that money back into Germany and on the German people first and foremost?

For me. Yes. But what for Paco that didn't have the random advantage of being born in Germany? What about Germany itself. Wouldn't it be better for the country to well..have someone smart or honest or nice or well everything I am not (Batman)?

I see that I have an advantage, I totally see how much I did not deserve it either though.

No, I would invest it on the soil Germans have power over but accept everyone in the country that wants to live here.

Robtard

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Anyone else notice this is rather insultive for the Mexican governement:

I mean the kid is practically saying "could you help my mom stay away from your country?"

Not sure I see it that way, it's more of a "Help me and my mother stay together." plea... But I do find it insulting that the Mexican government has anything to say on how America should handle it's deportation laws/policies considering Mexico has one the most barbaric and ruthless policies against illegals in it's own country.

WrathfulDwarf

Originally posted by Robtard
Not sure I see it that way, it's more of a "Help me and my mother stay together." plea... But I do find it insulting that the Mexican government has anything to say on how America should handle it's deportation laws/policies considering Mexico has one the most barbaric and ruthless policies against illegals in it's own country.

It is in a way. I mean if they just want to stay together why can't they just live in Mexico and case over. The kid could just become a Mexican citizen.

Robtard

Originally posted by Bardock42
For me. Yes. But what for Paco that didn't have the random advantage of being born in Germany? What about Germany itself. Wouldn't it be better for the country to well..have someone smart or honest or nice or well everything I am not (Batman)?

I see that I have an advantage, I totally see how much I did not deserve it either though.

No, I would invest it on the soil Germans have power over but accept everyone in the country that wants to live here.

I am not exactly sure what you're a saying here.... Batman? (I did get the Batman joke)

You did deserve it... I am going to assume you where either born in Germany or you later became a German citizen. I am also going to assume that you work and or pay taxes. Therefore, you do deserve the rights/privileges the a German citizenship affords you in your own country.

No country can allow a blatant open door policy, it would wreck havoc on the country's economics. Germany like any other country has laws and rules for non-Germans wanting citizenship and non-Germans need to follow those laws and go through the processes.

Robtard

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
It is in a way. I mean if they just want to stay together why can't they just live in Mexico and case over. The kid could just become a Mexican citizen.

Here's why:

"Arellano said she should not have to choose between leaving her son behind in the U.S. or bringing him to Mexico, away from his school, friends and familiar environment ."

Which I say bullocks too, she was deported once already and she was using someone else's identity... Go ask someone who has had their identity stolen and how much time (years), money(thousands in some cases) and aggravation (worse than an itch you can't reach) it takes to get it all cleared up.

WrathfulDwarf

Originally posted by Robtard
Here's why:

"Arellano said she should not have to choose between leaving her son behind in the U.S. or bringing him to Mexico, away from his school, friends and familiar environment ."

Which I say bullocks too, she was deported once already and she was using someone else's identity... Go ask someone who has had their identity stolen and how much time (years), money(thousands in some cases) and aggravation (worse than an itch you can't reach) it takes to get it all cleared up.

The identity theft point I agree. As for the earlier point of the kid leaving all that behind. I don't see anything special. Everyday kids leave many things behind when the parents have to relocate or move to a new place because of a job or something else. This is nothing but a new "Elian Gonzales from Cuba" story the media loves to exploit.

Quiero Mota

Originally posted by Kinneary
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/11/14/mexico.migrants.ap/index.html

Thoughts? Should families of children born in the US be allowed to stay with their children? Should the children be deported along with the parents? Or should the child stay in America and be raised under foster care?

Should be a case-by-case basis. I think the parents should be naturalized.

Robtard

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Should be a case-by-case basis. I think the parents should be naturalized.

Then all illegal aliens who have had a child on U.S. soil should be naturalized, which would then bring even larger waves of illegals to the U.S. just for that purpose... On that note, you do realize who picks up the $30,000+ hospital bill every time an illegal alien gives birth in a hospital right?

Mr. Sandman

Then she shouldn't have sneaked past the U.S. immigration system and broken the law.

I feel no sorrow. My mother was an immigrant. She did it the right way though, lawfully, and we never had any problems.

a1hsauce

if you were living in poverty and inopportune circumstances wouldn't you want to seek out a better life?

Soleran

Originally posted by a1hsauce
if you were living in poverty and inopportune circumstances wouldn't you want to seek out a better life?

Maybe however if someone used that same line to justify a robbery it wouldn't make it any less illegal.

They are illegal so kick them out of the USA.

Bardock42

Originally posted by Robtard
I am not exactly sure what you're a saying here.... Batman? (I did get the Batman joke)

You did deserve it... I am going to assume you where either born in Germany or you later became a German citizen. I am also going to assume that you work and or pay taxes. Therefore, you do deserve the rights/privileges the a German citizenship affords you in your own country.

No country can allow a blatant open door policy, it would wreck havoc on the country's economics. Germany like any other country has laws and rules for non-Germans wanting citizenship and non-Germans need to follow those laws and go through the processes.

It seems you did not.

No, sorry, being born in some place does not equal deserving somethin. I didn't do shit and I live a much better live that some African boy that's dying of hunger. This is why I think everyone should have the same right as I do, which is living and working (if they can find a job) in Germany.

Kinneary

But you did 'do shit.' You paid your taxes, gave back to your community, some in your country even served in the military and maybe died. Why should you, who have sacrificed for the country, be told that you can walk in, after having contributed nothing, and be privvy to all the benefits the country affords to those who have?

Bardock42

Originally posted by Kinneary
But you did 'do shit.' You paid your taxes, gave back to your community, some in your country even served in the military and maybe died. Why should you, who have sacrificed for the country, be told that you can walk in, after having contributed nothing, and be privvy to all the benefits the country affords to those who have?

I didn't pay taxes. I got all the advantages for twenty years, I even got a good education, I am a ****ing parasite. Unlike immigrants who come here and actually work and would pay taxes.

Kinneary

You don't pay taxes? Are you a minor? If you're in school then your government is making an investment in you. The more education their citizens get the more competitive they will be in the world market and the more money they will make. A person who leaves high school at 18 and joins the workforce is worth less to society than one who stays in school and becomes a doctor at 28, for example.

Bardock42

Originally posted by Kinneary
You don't pay taxes? Are you a minor? If you're in school then your government is making an investment in you. The more education their citizens get the more competitive they will be in the world market and the more money they will make. A person who leaves high school at 18 and joins the workforce is worth less to society than one who stays in school and becomes a doctor at 28, for example.

Yes, I know that. But why do I have more right or deserve it more to have this chances than an immigrant?

xmarksthespot

Originally posted by Kinneary
You don't pay taxes? Are you a minor? If you're in school then your government is making an investment in you. The more education their citizens get the more competitive they will be in the world market and the more money they will make. A person who leaves high school at 18 and joins the workforce is worth less to society than one who stays in school and becomes a doctor at 28, for example. That's assuming one chooses to stay in their country of birth/education.

Kinneary

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yes, I know that. But why do I have more right or deserve it more to have this chances than an immigrant?
Immigrants can have those chances. As long as they follow the correct and legal path for acquiring those rights.

Bardock42

Originally posted by Kinneary
Immigrants can have those chances. As long as they follow the correct and legal path for acquiring those rights.

And those should be non existent.

Kinneary

Why? Do you know why those walls are even up in the first place? Do you have a solution for the problems created by unchecked immigration?

Bardock42

Originally posted by Kinneary
Why? Do you know why those walls are even up in the first place? Do you have a solution for the problems created by unchecked immigration?

Because there is no just reason to discriminate against people that want to live somewhere. Why does Immigration have to be fascist as well? I mean we already have laws in place all people have to stick to, why do we need more for people that were not so lucky as to be born in lets say Germany or the US?

Kinneary

You didn't answer my question. Do you have any solution for the problems created by unchecked immigration?

Bardock42

Originally posted by Kinneary
You didn't answer my question. Do you have any solution for the problems created by unchecked immigration?

The problem you pretend exists? Well, seeing as it doesn't exist that shouldn't be too much of a problem.

xmarksthespot

Meh. Illegal immigration has both positive and negative effects. According to the New York Times "the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year....Moreover, the money paid by illegal immigrants and their employers is factored into all the Social Security Administration's projections." i.e. paying towards benefits they will likely never receive. They do the jobs that most natural born citizens won't touch with a ten-foot clown pole for dirt wages, below the already historically low minimum wage.

Kinneary

Originally posted by Bardock42
The problem you pretend exists? Well, seeing as it doesn't exist that shouldn't be too much of a problem.
So you see no point in securing our borders? From terrorists, drug traffickers, no one?

Bardock42

Originally posted by Kinneary
So you see no point in securing our borders? From terrorists, drug traffickers, no one?

Hmm, nope. No. Drugs should be legal anyways. And terrorists. Minor thread. Would probably get better if the policies of some of the western countries wouldn't be as fascist as they are anyways.

�P0oONY

DEY TUK R JUBZ!?

Kinneary

Originally posted by Bardock42
Hmm, nope. No. Drugs should be legal anyways.
I agree with you, but that has absolutely nothing to do with a real world scenario. We're talking about the way the world IS, not the way it should be.

Fascist? Are you serious?

Bardock42

Originally posted by Kinneary
I agree with you, but that has absolutely nothing to do with a real world scenario. We're talking about the way the world IS, not the way it should be.

Fascist? Are you serious?

Yes it does. Problems that can be disposed by disposing one idiotic law should not count in other scenarips.

And yes, I am serious. You gonna tell me the "terrorists" just hate you because youw ere nice, social and liberal to them?

Kinneary

We can sit here and talk about how we would like our perfect nation to be all day. But when the topic is about current immigration laws, I don't see how it's appropriate.

Which governments are such staunch supporters of fascism?

Bardock42

Originally posted by Kinneary
We can sit here and talk about how we would like our perfect nation to be all day. But when the topic is about current immigration laws, I don't see how it's appropriate.

Which governments are such staunch supporters of fascism?
No, no, it is about how we would like our perfect nation to have immigration laws, is it not?

Fascist policies, not fascism as a whole. And I have to admit I use fascism loosely to describe authoritarian ideals.

Soleran

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Moreover, the money paid by illegal immigrants and their employers is factored into all the Social Security Administration's projections." i.e. paying towards benefits they will likely never receive.

Most illegal immigrants are paid under the table and neither the employer nor employee pay tax's twards Social Security.

Of course if they are paying tax's then they contribute otherwise, no.

sad

Kinneary

But when you start sliding into how they should handle their drug laws we're beginning to dress up the immigration laws in our ideal nations, not the immigration laws in our actual countries.

Ah. On that note, then, I support a little bit of those authoritarian ideas. After all, if America were a true democracy, we'd never get anything done.

�P0oONY

Originally posted by Kinneary
Ah. On that note, then, I support a little bit of those authoritarian ideas. After all, if America were a true democracy, we'd never get anything done.

Wait a tick.... You're telling us America actually gets things done now?

confused

Bardock42

Originally posted by Soleran
Most illegal immigrants are paid under the table and neither the employer nor employee pay tax's twards Social Security.

Of course if they are paying tax's then they contribute otherwise, no.

sad

They are also not entitled to social security. And they are hunted down and thrown out of the country, cause people like you are much better than them and deserve work and a good life much more.

Originally posted by Kinneary
But when you start sliding into how they should handle their drug laws we're beginning to dress up the immigration laws in our ideal nations, not the immigration laws in our actual countries.

Ah. On that note, then, I support a little bit of those authoritarian ideas. After all, if America were a true democracy, we'd never get anything done.

Alright, so yeah, I didn't say we should open out boarders though, we should make immigration legal (absolutely legal) that does not mean that drug trafficking and terrorizing is legal though, does it?

Yes, I suppose I agree with some, but you also created your worst fear yourself. It's not like terrorists one day woke up and said "Shit, I like totally hate America now".

Kinneary

So what is your ideal immigration policy?

And no, it doesn't mean drug trafficking and terrorism is legal, it just leaves our borders open to those who would commit those offenses. Our immigration policies to date have proven too lax in allowing those people in.

Americans are just one target of terrorists, among many others. Regardless, these religious fundamentalists have been out on a lamb for centuries fighting with each other. I don't believe much could have been done to prevent global terrorism.

Bardock42

Originally posted by Kinneary
So what is your ideal immigration policy?

And no, it doesn't mean drug trafficking and terrorism is legal, it just leaves our borders open to those who would commit those offenses. Our immigration policies to date have proven too lax in allowing those people in.

Americans are just one target of terrorists, among many others. Regardless, these religious fundamentalists have been out on a lamb for centuries fighting with each other. I don't believe much could have been done to prevent global terrorism.

Not quite sure. I would say let everyone in. Of course check them for weapons and drugs and what not, give them the chance to find a job and housing. Maybe support them. You could have some restrictions to it.

Okay, that is possible, still it is not actually reasonable to fear terrorism ...rather fear ..lets say to be killed by a falling coconut.

Kinneary

To fear terrorism, no. But it is prudent to take specific measures to protect ourselves from ever-escalating attacks, the same way it's smart to protect yourself from a bank fraud, your children from kidnapping, etc. Don't spend every day obsessing over it, but take the necessary precautions.

Bardock42

Originally posted by Kinneary
To fear terrorism, no. But it is prudent to take specific measures to protect ourselves from ever-escalating attacks, the same way it's smart to protect yourself from a bank fraud, your children from kidnapping, etc. Don't spend every day obsessing over it, but take the necessary precautions.

Yes, but not by toughening up your immigration policy. Or so I think.

Kinneary

Then I guess we've come to one of those rare agreements to disagree you hear about sometimes.

Bardock42

Originally posted by Kinneary
Then I guess we've come to one of those rare agreements to disagree you hear about sometimes.

That seems to always occur, when I am right and have good arguments and when the other person wishes not to continue due to the obviousness of their mistakes. In that case we might not even agree to disagree since I might assume that you actually agree but do not want to admit it. Though I doubt that.

Kinneary

That's a good idea.

Bardock42

Originally posted by Kinneary
That's a good idea.

Yeah, of course it is. It was mine after all.

Shalimar_fox

Robtard

Originally posted by Bardock42
They are also not entitled to social security. And they are hunted down and thrown out of the country, cause people like you are much better than them and deserve work and a good life much more.

Alright, so yeah, I didn't say we should open out boarders though, we should make immigration legal (absolutely legal) that does not mean that drug trafficking and terrorizing is legal though, does it?

Yes, I suppose I agree with some, but you also created your worst fear yourself. It's not like terrorists one day woke up and said "Shit, I like totally hate America now".

"Hunted Down"... You're being a bit melodramatic here... With the millions of illegal aliens in California alone and the hundreds that come over each and every day, I do not think they are being "hunted down" like game animals.

Glad to hear you don't believe in an 'Open Door' policy as that would/could ruin a country, any country. Immigration is legal, people migrant to others countries every second of every day and no one has a problem with it when it is done legally.

Soleran

Originally posted by Bardock42
They are also not entitled to social security. And they are hunted down and thrown out of the country, cause people like you are much better than them and deserve work and a good life much more.

Haha save your drama for someone else.

No one's saying they cannot come to America and benefit from the current system as long as they do it legally.

Darth_Erebus

The woman entered the US illegally. Therefore any offspring she has should be considered illegal as well and they should all be deported.

Bardock42

Originally posted by Robtard
"Hunted Down"... You're being a bit melodramatic here... With the millions of illegal aliens in California alone and the hundreds that come over each and every day, I do not think they are being "hunted down" like game animals.

Glad to hear you don't believe in an 'Open Door' policy as that would/could ruin a country, any country. Immigration is legal, people migrant to others countries every second of every day and no one has a problem with it when it is done legally.

Hey, your police may suck, but the people live in fear anyways.

Of course an open door policy would not ruin a country, though I do believe that a society has some right to choose who it wants. Though I also don't believe that being born in a country should entitle you to have life long citizenship.

Originally posted by Soleran
Haha save your drama for someone else.

No one's saying they cannot come to America and benefit from the current system as long as they do it legally.

And I am saying it is to hard to do. It's not like you'd let all the Mexicans in, Maybe good clean educated Brits...but Mexicans?

Kinneary

No. They don't. Most people who illegaly sneak into the US are never prosecuted or even looked for.

Neither do I. If your parents are illegal aliens, you should not have citizenship.

Yes, Mexicans are allowed to immigrate into the country.

Bardock42

Originally posted by Kinneary
No. They don't. Most people who illegaly sneak into the US are never prosecuted or even looked for.

Neither do I. If your parents are illegal aliens, you should not have citizenship.

Yes, Mexicans are allowed to immigrate into the country.

Haha, sure, they just live their live in wealth created by honest white Americans. They do not live in shit housing, working shit jobs. They are a parasite to you.

If your parents are legal citizens you should not have citizenship either. Let everyone earn their citizenship. Not jsut the people that didn't have the ****ing luck to be born in a desirable country.

You are saying if al,l those millions of immigrants had applied for citizenship they would have gotten it? s) Bullshit and b) well, then lets make them legal now, since they would have gotten in anyways. They already live and work there, which is more than some "US Americans" do.

PVS

and as with every mexican hating illegal immigration thread, the issue of prosecuting those companies which employ illegals, fueling demand, is conveniently avoided.

DEY TUK R JOBS!!!

Quiero Mota

Originally posted by Bardock42
And I am saying it is to hard to do. It's not like you'd let all the Mexicans in, Maybe good clean educated Brits...but Mexicans?

^ laughing out loud

Robtard

Originally posted by Bardock42
Hey, your police may suck, but the people live in fear anyways.

Of course an open door policy would not ruin a country, though I do believe that a society has some right to choose who it wants. Though I also don't believe that being born in a country should entitle you to have life long citizenship.

And I am saying it is to hard to do. It's not like you'd let all the Mexicans in, Maybe good clean educated Brits...but Mexicans?

And you know this how? Have you been to California lately?

You're a contradiction... First you say that anyone and everyone should be allowed to live where they want as being born in a certain country shouldn't entitle you to certain rights... Then you say that a society should have "some rights" to choose who it lets in. A country must pose laws and restrictions on who it lets in and people that want to come into a country need to follow those laws. Simple really.

Get it through your head, immigration IS legal. People come to the U.S. legally each and every single day and people are made citizens each and every day. You make it sound like the U.S. is like Germany circa 1939 and 'we' are selectively tossing people out who we deem "unfit". This is not the case.

Stop playing your games and turning this into an "anti-Mexican" thread, it's pathetic. Not a single person (in this thread at least) who is against illegal immigration is against it because of any "Mexian Agenda". They are against it because it is illegal.

Quiero Mota

Originally posted by Bardock42
You are saying if al,l those millions of immigrants had applied for citizenship they would have gotten it? s) Bullshit and b) well, then lets make them legal now, since they would have gotten in anyways. They already live and work there, which is more than some "US Americans" do.

thumb up

Robtard

Originally posted by PVS
and as with every mexican hating illegal immigration thread, the issue of prosecuting those companies which employ illegals, fueling demand, is conveniently avoided.

DEY TUK R JOBS!!!

I agree, companies that willfully employ illegal immigrants so they can lower their payroll should be prosecuted.

Quiero Mota

Originally posted by Robtard
I agree, companies that willfully employ illegal immigrants so they can lower their payroll should be prosecuted.

Then you would have a lot of companies in deep shit. laughing out loud

Robtard

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Then you would have a lot of companies in deep shit. laughing out loud

And your point is?

Quiero Mota

Originally posted by Robtard
And your point is?

Exactly that.

Bardock42

Originally posted by Robtard
And your point is?

That you folks need Illegal Immigrants.

Originally posted by Robtard
I agree, companies that willfully employ illegal immigrants so they can lower their payroll should be prosecuted.

Woah, wait a second..I have this genius idea. We make illegal immigrants legal, therfore giving them the same protection as good white Americans, which means they do not have to walk for a nickel and a piece of shit an hour which will make it possible for competition to arise again.

Quiero Mota

Originally posted by Robtard
Not a single person (in this thread at least) who is against illegal immigration is against it because of any "Mexian Agenda".

Most anti-illegal immigration laws are just veiled racism targeted at Mexicans.

Bardock42

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Most anti-illegal immigration laws are just veiled racism targeted at Mexicans.

Well, this might be true, but my arguments are not actually on that, since at least in Germany the immigration laws are not against Mexicans. And they are wrong anyways.

Quiero Mota

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, this might be true, but my arguments are not actually on that, since at least in Germany the immigration laws are not against Mexicans.

Turks?

Originally posted by Bardock42
And they are wrong anyways.

I won't argue that.

Bardock42

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Turks?

I won't argue that.

Not to my knowledge, they are not racist as such agaisnt a particular group...actually I hardly know of any Illegal Immigrants, it's not the same kinda "problem" as in the US. The politicians do like to use it though.

Quiero Mota

Then what kind of "problem" is it then?

PVS

yeah...i mean...you already got rid of all the jews...

xmarksthespot

Originally posted by Bardock42
That you folks need Illegal Immigrants. Originally posted by xmarksthespot
They do the jobs that most natural born citizens won't touch with a ten-foot clown pole for dirt wages below the already historically low minimum wage.

Quiero Mota

Originally posted by PVS
yeah...i mean...you already got rid of all the jews...

laughing

Robtard

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Most anti-illegal immigration laws are just veiled racism targeted at Mexicans.

You sound like that "FistoftheNorth" guy.

Robtard

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Originally posted by Bardock42
That you folks need Illegal Immigrants.
quote: (post)

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
They do the jobs that most natural born citizens won't touch with a ten-foot clown pole for dirt wages below the already historically low minimum wage.

You do realize that those jobs were done before illegal immigration got to like it is today right? Someone was doing those jobs before... Shit, my first job was in a fast food joint and I did it for minimum wage, $4.25 at the time.

Quiero Mota

Originally posted by Robtard
You sound like that "FistoftheNorth" guy.

Don't compare me to that guy.

And yes, throughout this nation's history immigration laws have targeted minorities, such as The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882. Where as immigrants from the UK and Nordic Europe didn't face such issues.

Quiero Mota

Originally posted by Robtard
You do realize that those jobs were done before illegal immigration got to like it is today right? Someone was doing those jobs before. Shit, my first job was in a fast food joint and I did it for minimum wage, $4.25 at the time.

Yeah, but you were probably 16, it was just a summer job, and gas money was probably your only expense.

Now try to support a family while paying the bills with that same job....exactly. Most Americans aren't willing to do it.

PVS

Originally posted by Robtard
You sound like that "FistoftheNorth" guy.

face the fact: he's correct
i already gave clear evidence why. evidence you can plainly see in
politics as well as this very thread.

Bardock42

Originally posted by Robtard
People shouldn't have to live in fear, that is correct. But then again I could say lets make thievery legal so thieves do not have to live in fear.

Debating how the world should be is almost moot point. Like you said, if everyone could just get along and be happy working together not against each other then we would have Nirvana, we don't and it isn't going to happen anytime soon.

Yes, countries need to secure their borders in the current state of affairs. If America or any other country for that matter took upon itself to accept every improvised person then that country in turn would become improvised. Countries need to regulate and know who is coming into their country from the outside, look what happened when the U.S. opened it's doors to Cuba in the 80's, Fidel emptied his prisons and dumped criminals on the U.S. Now, before you knee-jerk and imply that I am saying all illegals are criminals, I am not, most do come here to work and better themselves. But not all and that is yet another reason why there are immigration laws and certain steps need to be taken if you want to come into and integrate yourself into another country.

I used the Nazi example as you make it seem that the U.S.'s immigration policies are horrible when they are very fair and considering the amount of illegal aliens in the U.S., they are fairly lax.

I don't see it as an attack, I see it as knee-jerk response and you are not looking at the bigger picture. The topic is "Mexican Immigration", so lets stick to that.

Or what about we only make things illegal that hurt others.

Yes, just that you are the one arguing for the side that doesn't want to work together. You pretend to be for the Utopia while you are a part of the problem.

Bullshit, That is an idiotic assumption. Why should it be like that? Lets see, Germany has 80 000 000 people and we get along...the US has 300 000 000 and you get along. So why ould Germany not accept 10 million more...say 20...nah, lets make it 80?

Yes, I have seen Scarface too, boo hoo, but you are curing an itch on a finger by amputating the arm. I am not saying let them get in unsupervised, just make it easy. Easier at least. And make it so that it is not racism that leads it, but just the wish to secure your society.

No, sorry, they are not fair. That is bullshit. If a Mexican wants to come there he has way more trouble to get in legally than me.

Ironic. But it is not a knee jerk reaction. I am just stating where things are unfair as I see it. That they are the way they are is clear to me, you don't need to tell me that.

Kinneary

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Don't compare me to that guy.

And yes, throughout this nation's history immigration laws have targeted minorities, such as The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882. Where as immigrants from the UK and Nordic Europe didn't face such issues.
We don't have a problem with a massive influx of illegal French immigrants. We don't have a problem with a massive influx of illegal Canadian immigrants. It has nothing to do with race. It has to do with a poor country telling its citizens to hop the fence into the USA, and Americans getting tired of that. It is not racism.

Soleran

Minimum wage isn't the discussion here in as much as illegal immigrants.

Illegal immigrants are just that illegal. If someone is a thief and constantly robs to "better" their life is that justifiable, no.

If their current life is so difficult then regardless of the difficulties to become legal it certainly has to be easier/better then their previous conditions.

Robtard

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Don't compare me to that guy.

And yes, throughout this nation's history immigration laws have targeted minorities, such as The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882. Where as immigrants from the UK and Nordic Europe didn't face such issues.

For one, most minorities are not really minorities anymore. Immigration laws today that "target" Mexicans, Guatemalans and El Salvadorians as you say are simply that way because those happen to be the people that are the largest offenders. If 20,000 illegal Italians started coming across the border each and every single day, they would be "targeted" as you say too.

1882? You have to be kidding me... America has changed a lot since 1882.

Robtard

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Yeah, but you were probably 16, it was just a summer job, and gas money was probably your only expense.

Now try to support a family while paying the bills with that same job....exactly. Most Americans aren't willing to do it.

Correct for the most part... But still, those jobs were done before right? Fast Food, crop gathering, construction labor, cleaning and any other job that is targeted by current illegal immigrants was done before. Don't get me wrong, I am not an advocate of "Throw them all out" as I do not see that as a viable solution, but immigration laws do need to exist and considering that amount of illegal aliens the U.S. currently has, it needs to come to a curb.

Bardock42

Originally posted by Robtard
Correct for the most part... But still, those jobs were done before right? Fast Food, crop gathering, construction labor, cleaning and any other job that is targeted by current illegal immigrants was done before. Don't get me wrong, I am not an advocate of "Throw them all out" as I do not see that as a viable solution, but immigration laws do need to exist and considering that amount of illegal aliens the U.S. currently has, it needs to come to a curb.

And wait a second. There was a time when your country was just 200 000 000...and it worked..and now it is 300 000 000 and it works....maybe free immigration is not that bad, maybe it would not have all the bad consequences we pretend it would have.

Soleran

Originally posted by Bardock42
And wait a second. There was a time when your country was just 200 000 000...and it worked..and now it is 300 000 000 and it works....maybe free immigration is not that bad, maybe it would not have all the bad consequences we pretend it would have.

That would be great, make immigration free!

Just make sure that they also read and speak english and do a background check to make sure there is no criminal record or previous offenses.

Robtard

Originally posted by Bardock42
And wait a second. There was a time when your country was just 200 000 000...and it worked..and now it is 300 000 000 and it works....maybe free immigration is not that bad, maybe it would not have all the bad consequences we pretend it would have.

Where do you stop then? What if America shipped every person South of the border all the way to Tierra Del Fuego and we could all live in la-la land. Wait, we should also bring in all the Canadians too, can't be selective you know...

Bardock42

Originally posted by Robtard
Where do you stop then? What if America shipped every person South of the border all the way to Tierra Del Fuego and we could all live in la-la land. Wait, we should also bring in all the Canadians too, can't be selective you know...

Shouldn't be a problem. I mean it will stop at 6 billion.... for now. But do you have any not bullshit arguments? Like some that you did not make up to not have to deal with the reality that if all those illegal immigrants were legal it would not make anything worse for you?

sithsaber408

Originally posted by Bardock42
maybe free immigration is not that bad, maybe it would not have all the bad consequences we pretend it would have.

Did you know that more people were killed, raped, or robbed by illegal immigrants last year, than all the people killed in the 3 years of the Iraq war and 9/11 combined?

I'm not for throwing anybody out, all who are here should be made citizens, and should learn the language, get backround checks, and then start paying taxes.

They can stay.

But everbody else in the world has to wait 5 to years to get here, and go through the process.

Mexicans should too.

I'm no racist either, I come from East San Jose, and most of my friends in high school were black or hispanic. I've worked washing dishes, at construction sites, and in wherehouses with illegal mexican immigrants. They're great people, fun-loving, hard-working who want a better life, for the most part.

But don't pretend that only the good ones come over.

We get the shit ones too.

Final point: Though they may live in destitute conditions, and may want more from life (just as people in India, Africa, etc... do), and though our country's principle's are to allow them to have that better life here....

The whole bloody world cannot live here.

Logistically, half of the whole world couldn't even live here, unless we start building the 20 story high apartments everywhere, like in Blade Runner or something.

No, other countries citizens must stand up and fight as ours did to create a better country where they are.

That's the solution to the world's problems, not to send them all here.

Robtard

Originally posted by Bardock42
Shouldn't be a problem. I mean it will stop at 6 billion.... for now. But do you have any not bullshit arguments? Like some that you did not make up to not have to deal with the reality that if all those illegal immigrants were legal it would not make anything worse for you?

That was in response to your "bullshit argument". What are you talking about now? Making all the illegal immigrants that are in America now legal or immigration laws in general? They are two separate arguments.

Bardock42

Originally posted by Robtard
That was in response to your "bullshit argument". What are you talking about now? Making all the illegal immigrants that are in America now legal or immigration laws in general? They are two separate arguments.

Kinda the same for me. The one follows from the other.

Robtard

Originally posted by Bardock42
Kinda the same for me. The one follows from the other.

No... If we were to legalize every illegal alien in America just because, then why not just do away with the border and let everyone and anyone in? That is a horrible idea as there needs to immigration laws, checks and balances and we have that. Though it fails often as you can see by the numbers of people illegally sneaking past the borders and breaking the law.

Bardock42

Originally posted by Robtard
No... If we were to legalize every illegal alien in America just because, then why not just do away with the border and let everyone and anyone in? That is a horrible idea as there needs to immigration laws, checks and balances and we have that. Though it fails often as you can see by the numbers of people illegally sneaking past the borders and breaking the law.

No, that is a great idea actually. Not horrible at all.

But I don't know if there is a point to argue, I made my view clear...you...well, replied to it. It goes in circles. It doesn't seem like you are going to see that I am right any time soon..well, maybe your children or grandchildren, but at some point people will.

Robtard

Originally posted by Bardock42
No, that is a great idea actually. Not horrible at all.

But I don't know if there is a point to argue, I made my view clear...you...well, replied to it. It goes in circles. It doesn't seem like you are going to see that I am right any time soon..well, maybe your children or grandchildren, but at some point people will.

You could possibly (slim chance) be right if we lived in this perfect world you talk about, but we do not live in a perfect world...

Here's another angle, you think illegal immigrants should have a free pass because you feel they have a right to a better life regardless of where they were born or regardless of another countries laws correct?

One thing though, if America were to open it's borders (criminal, terrorist, drug issue aside) and let every single improvished person into the U.S. as you think it should, it would throw the economy out of balance as there wouldn't be enough jobs, money and food for everyone and then America itself would become just like the country the illegals left to better themselves. NOT a great idea.

Bardock42

Originally posted by Robtard
You could possibly (slim chance) be right if we lived in this perfect world you talk about, but we do not live in a perfect world...

Here's another angle, you think illegal immigrants should have a free pass because you feel they have a right to a better life regardless of where they were born or regardless of another countries laws correct?

One thing though, if America were to open it's borders (criminal, terrorist, drug issue aside) and let every single improvished person into the U.S. as you think it should, it would throw the economy out of balance as there wouldn't be enough jobs, money and food for everyone and then America itself would become just like the country the illegals left to better themselves. NOT a great idea.

That is not another angle that is the same angle that has been covered before. And yes, if 3 billion people would get into your country alone it would destroy the Economy (maybe) But of only people that will actually emigrate (which are not all people, since not all people want to live in the US as you think they do) and all of the EU and the US and Canada would open their boarders we could certainly take it. It would not destroy our economies. That is a ridiculous thought.

sithsaber408

Edit: Double post.

sithsaber408

Seeing as how I was conveniently ignored, I'll repost:

Originally posted by Bardock42
maybe free immigration is not that bad, maybe it would not have all the bad consequences we pretend it would have.

Did you know that more people were killed, raped, or robbed by illegal immigrants last year, than all the people killed in the 3 years of the Iraq war and 9/11 combined?

I'm not for throwing anybody out, all who are here should be made citizens, and should learn the language, get background checks, and then start paying taxes.

They can stay.

But everybody else in the world has to wait 5 to years to get here, and go through the process.

Mexicans should too.

I'm no racist either, I come from East San Jose, and most of my friends in high school were black or Hispanic. I've worked washing dishes, at construction sites, and in warehouse's with illegal mexican immigrants. They're great people, fun-loving, hard-working who want a better life, for the most part.

But don't pretend that only the good ones come over.

We get the shit ones too.

Final point: Though they may live in destitute conditions, and may want more from life (just as people in India, Africa, etc... do), and though our country's principle's are to allow them to have that better life here....

The whole bloody world cannot live here.

Logistically, half of the whole world couldn't even live here, unless we start building the 20 story high apartments everywhere, like in Blade Runner or something.

No, other countries citizens must stand up and fight as ours did to create a better country where they are.

That's the solution to the world's problems, not to send them all here.

Bardock42

Sorry, Sith, I think I made my point clear, if you want answers for your points read back. If I should have missed a total killer argument please bring it on, and I will see if you are right (imo) or what I think.

Robtard

Originally posted by Bardock42
That is not another angle that is the same angle that has been covered before. And yes, if 3 billion people would get into your country alone it would destroy the Economy (maybe) But of only people that will actually emigrate (which are not all people, since not all people want to live in the US as you think they do) and all of the EU and the US and Canada would open their boarders we could certainly take it. It would not destroy our economies. That is a ridiculous thought.

You're basically saying this again(see below) and that is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Bardock42
It seems to be random and idiotic. We should just form a Global Anarchistic Society and live in peace doped (yeah, I'm a tree hugging liberal pussy)

How many jobs do you think there are that the illegal aliens typically take? Do you seriously think the job market is unlimited? If more keep coming in like it currently is, they will be competing not 2-3 persons per job but 8-9 persons per job. The only thing that will do is allow the people that employ them to pay less money as there is a greater demand for the job. Do you really want to see illegal immigrants work for less than they do now? They currently make less than minimum wage in many cases, do you think they'll be able to support themselves on $1.25 an hour, because that is what will eventually happen.

Bardock42

Originally posted by Robtard
You're basically saying this again(see below) and that is ridiculous.

How many jobs do you think there are that the illegal aliens typically take? Do you seriously think the job market is unlimited? If more keep coming in like it currently is, they will be competing not 2-3 persons per job but 8-9 persons per job. The only thing that will do is allow the people that employ them to pay less money as there is a greater demand for the job. Do you really want to see illegal immigrants work for less than they do now? They currently make less than minimum wage in many cases, do you think they'll be able to support themselves on $1.25 an hour, because that is what will eventually happen.

Woah, do you seriously think that if more people come to a country that not more jobs are created? Er...wrong. You have really little faith in the capitalistic system. If more people live in a country more jobs are needed, if 12 million people should enter the country new jobs will be created. Maybe not for everybody. But it is not like the economy couldn't take it, that's ridiculous.

Soleran

Bardock42

Originally posted by Bardock42
Woah, do you seriously think that if more people come to a country that not more jobs are created? Er...wrong. You have really little faith in the capitalistic system. If more people live in a country more jobs are needed, if 12 million people should enter the country new jobs will be created. Maybe not for everybody. But it is not like the economy couldn't take it, that's ridiculous. Originally posted by Robtard
You're basically saying this again(see below) and that is ridiculous.

How many jobs do you think there are that the illegal aliens typically take? Do you seriously think the job market is unlimited? If more keep coming in like it currently is, they will be competing not 2-3 persons per job but 8-9 persons per job. The only thing that will do is allow the people that employ them to pay less money as there is a greater demand for the job. Do you really want to see illegal immigrants work for less than they do now? They currently make less than minimum wage in many cases, do you think they'll be able to support themselves on $1.25 an hour, because that is what will eventually happen. Originally posted by Bardock42
Woah, do you seriously think that if more people come to a country that not more jobs are created? Er...wrong. You have really little faith in the capitalistic system. If more people live in a country more jobs are needed, if 12 million people should enter the country new jobs will be created. Maybe not for everybody. But it is not like the economy couldn't take it, that's ridiculous.

Soleran

Maybe this will happen, either way supply and demand.

xmarksthespot

Originally posted by Robtard
How many jobs do you think there are that the illegal aliens typically take? Do you seriously think the job market is unlimited? If more keep coming in like it currently is, they will be competing not 2-3 persons per job but 8-9 persons per job. The only thing that will do is allow the people that employ them to pay less money as there is a greater demand for the job. Do you really want to see illegal immigrants work for less than they do now? They currently make less than minimum wage, do you think they'll be able to support themselves on $1.25 an hour? You're not actually using the "they took our jobs" thing are you?

Bardock42

Originally posted by Soleran

More jobs...****ing hell, they will create more jobs.

Robtard

Soleran

Originally posted by Bardock42
More jobs...****ing hell, they will create more jobs.

Oh ok, sure I'm sure a new job will be created for each new immigrant the day they arrive on the soil!

Robtard

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You're not actually using the "they took our jobs" thing are you?

No, and you know that... I am saying that if illegal immigration goes unchecked, the job market for the illegals already here will become a mess. As 'we' will have 6 people competing for one job were we have 3 now. That will allow the employers that hire illegals to pay them less and it will also increase the illegal unemployment rate. Which in turn, unemployment rate goes up, crime goes up as well.

But on the note of "They took our jobs", you never answered me... You had said that illegals do jobs that Americans wouldn't touch with a "ten-foot clown pole"... Though I tend to agree in some aspects, it still begs the question, those jobs were preformed before illegal immigration got out of hand like it is now, so who was doing those same jobs before?

xmarksthespot

Originally posted by Robtard
No, and you know that... I am saying that if illegal immigration goes unchecked, the job market for the illegals already here will become a mess. As 'we' will have 6 people competing for one job were we have 3 now. That will allow the employers that hire illegals to pay them less and it will also increase the illegal unemployment rate. Which in turn, unemployment rate goes up, crime goes up as well.

But on the note of "They took our jobs", you never answered me... You had said that illegals do jobs that Americans wouldn't touch with a "ten-foot clown pole"... Though I tend to agree in some aspects, it still begs the question, those jobs were preformed before illegal immigration got out of hand like it is now, so who was doing those same jobs before? I'm not agreeing with Bardock's free immigration policy, but I do agree that the weight placed on being born in a country, regardless of whether your parents were born there, is excessive. I didn't actually see the question. Define "out of hand", i.e. which "back in the old days" are you harking back to.

Bardock42

Originally posted by Robtard
Woah, do you seriously think new jobs (ones that ilegals can take) are created inline with the amount of illegals coming in each day? Something around 10,000+ illegal aliens come over the border each day, do you think that many new jobs (or close) are created each day? The balance to new jobs vs. illegal immigrants is not balanced, not even close too being balanced. Like I said, if it goes unchecked the job market for jobs that illegal aliens typically take will be flooded and that will only lower the rate of pay for those jobs and increase the illegal unemployment rate. No, I think with legal immigration they will create jobs. And it will be enough. Why shouldn't it? France has 60 000 000 people and it works. Germany 80 000 000. The US currently 300 000 000. And it all works. I am saying that more people will not kill your economy, it will stabilize just as it did always. And you are thinking wrong, it is not illegal immigrants anymore then..it is Americans. Which have minimum wage and rights and companies will not be able to pay them that low. It will work, have faith in capitalism.

Robtard

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm not agreeing with Bardock's free immigration policy, but I do agree that the weight placed on being born in a country, regardless of whether your parents were born there, is excessive. I didn't actually see the question. Define "out of hand", i.e. which "back in the old days" are you harking back to.

"Out of hand" would be the conservative estimate of 25 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. currently and the 10K that illegally cross each day.

Say 20 years ago... I live in an area were there are many illegals, I do remember when U.S. citizens did the same jobs that illegals predominantly do now. So the "They do the jobs that others won't" argument is flawed... it should be "They do the jobs for less , that others won't do." There is more too it than that though in the big picture.

Robtard

Originally posted by Bardock42
No, I think with legal immigration they will create jobs. And it will be enough. Why shouldn't it? France has 60 000 000 people and it works. Germany 80 000 000. The US currently 300 000 000. And it all works. I am saying that more people will not kill your economy, it will stabilize just as it did always. And you are thinking wrong, it is not illegal immigrants anymore then..it is Americans. Which have minimum wage and rights and companies will not be able to pay them that low. It will work, have faith in capitalism.

It cannot work indefinitely, "supply and demand". The jobs that they do(supply) cannot parallel the amount of people(demand), they is and will be a greater imbalance as time goes on.

I'll give you a real life example... 10 years ago there used to be about 50 illegals immigrants that would stand along 2-3 street blocks looking for jobs, people would drive by and pick them up for labor etc. and everyday the majority of them would get picked up at least once to work a few hours. Currently there are 250+ on the same area of land and they all do not get picked up, I have spoken to a few as I am fluent in Spanish and some say they are lucky to find work every 3rd day now. I have seen them actually punch each other in the face trying to fight their way into someones truck.

xmarksthespot

Originally posted by Robtard
"Out of hand" would be the conservative estimate of 25 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. currently an the 10K that illegally cross each day.

Say 20 years ago... I live in an area were there are many illegals, I do remember when U.S. citizens did the same jobs that illegals predominantly do now. So the "They do the jobs that others won't" argument is flawed... it should be "They do the jobs for less , that others won't do." There is more too it than that though in the big picture. Where exactly did you derive your "conservative estimate", I've seen estimates of 8-12 million. 25 million is not a conservative estimate. erm

Ah but therein lies an interesting conundrum. Are the same U.S. citizens who want every illegal immigrant deported, prepared to pay more for everything?

Robtard

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Where exactly did you derive your "conservative estimate", I've seen estimates of 8-12 million. 25 million is not a conservative estimate. erm

Ah but therein lies an interesting conundrum. Are the same U.S. citizens who want every illegal immigrant deported, prepared to pay more for everything?

I've looked on-line and had read it before... The estimates do vary greatly and in honesty, who really knows since they are indeed "undocumented" peoples. Could very well be 5 milion or 30 million.

Those people are insane since they want something that is an impossibility. I agree that (if it somehow were magically possible) kicking every single illegal immigrant out would kick the U.S. economy in the nuts and those same people that shout "throw em all out!" would in turn cry about rising cost. But that does not take away from the issue that illegal immigration needs to be checked or go unchecked.

Bardock42

Originally posted by Robtard
It cannot work indefinitely, "supply and demand". The jobs that they do(supply) cannot parallel the amount of people(demand), they is and will be a greater imbalance as time goes on.

I'll give you a real life example... 10 years ago there used to be about 50 illegals immigrants that would stand along 2-3 street blocks looking for jobs, people would drive by and pick them up for labor etc. and everyday the majority of them would get picked up at least once to work a few hours. Currently there are 250+ on the same area of land and they all do not get picked up, I have spoken to a few as I am fluent in Spanish and some say they are lucky to find work every 3rd day now. I have seen them actually punch each other in the face trying to fight their way into someones truck.

This is about illegal immigrants. With no rights and such, right? THey can't open jobs. They can't fill any jobs other than illegal ones on the street corner, right?

sithsaber408

Just for shits and giggles, I'll post this again:

More people were killed, raped, or robbed by illegal immigrants last year than were killed in the 3 years of the Iraq war and 9/11 combined.

PVS

source?

oh i know:

http://stormfront.org

i love the skewed and shady nature of your figures.

xmarksthespot

Originally posted by Robtard
I've looked on-line and had read it before... The estimates do vary greatly and in honesty, who really knows since they are indeed "undocumented" peoples. Could very well be 5 milion or 30 million.

Those people are insane since they want something that is an impossibility. I agree that (if it somehow were magically possible) kicking every single illegal immigrant out would kick the U.S. economy in the nuts and those same people that shout "throw em all out!" would in turn cry about rising cost. But that does not take away from the issue that illegal immigration needs to be checked or go unchecked. You're sort of arguing for "controlled illegal immigration"... erm

Robtard

Originally posted by Bardock42
This is about illegal immigrants. With no rights and such, right? THey can't open jobs. They can't fill any jobs other than illegal ones on the street corner, right?

Yes it is. They do have rights. I'm sure in some cases they could become business owners. The majority of them lack the education or proficiencies to do some jobs, this is the reason why they happen to take labor intensive jobs.

Bardock42

Originally posted by Robtard
Yes it is. They do have rights. I'm sure in some cases they could become business owners. The majority of them lack the education or proficiencies to do some jobs, this is the reason why they happen to take labor intensive jobs.

Haha. Hahahaha. Right.

Robtard

Originally posted by PVS
source?

oh i know:

http://stormfront.org

i love the skewed and shady nature of your figures.

Was that directed at me?

Actually I Googled it and those figures of 20+ to 25+ million are not insane as there is no real way of counting people who are indeed undocumented. So take your knee-jerking argument and cry "racist" to someone else. But if it makes you feel better, 10 million illegal immigrants still borders on the "out of hand" line.

Robtard

Originally posted by Bardock42
Haha. Hahahaha. Right.

Yes, exactly right... Do you seriously think doctors, lawyers and civil workers are crossing over illegally to do hard labor jobs in America? Fact is, the majority of of the ones that cross lack the education/proficiencies to do work other than labor. I am not saying they are too stupid to learn, just they lack the skills to do so and this is why they come over.

Bardock42

Originally posted by Robtard
Was that directed at me?

Actually I Googled it and those figures of 20+ to 25+ million are not insane as there is no real way of counting people who are indeed undocumented. So take your knee-jerking argument and cry "racist" to someone else. But if it makes you feel better, 10 million illegal immigrants still borders on the "out of hand" line.

No, he was talking abiout the more rapes by illegal immigrants.

Then again those stats are idiotic. Cause he compares death in a war with robbery. That can be possible, but it shows nothing. And it's probably just the death of American Soldiers he counts anyways, which comes to what...5000 people being killed in 9/11 and the War in Iraq against 5001 people being robbed, raped or killed by illegal immigrants (most robbed of course).

PVS

Bardock42

Originally posted by Robtard
Yes, exactly right... Do you seriously think doctors, lawyers and civil workers are crossing over illegally to do hard labor jobs in America? Fact is, the majority of of the ones that cross lack the education/proficiencies to do work other than labor. I am not saying they are too stupid to learn, just they lack the skills to do so and this is why they come over.

But they can't get any labour work but illegal ones.

Robtard

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You're sort of arguing for "controlled illegal immigration"... erm

If by "sort of" you mean "not at all" then yes... I am against illegal immigration, period. But I do see the "throw em all out" view as being illogical as it is unattainable and America has molded itself in many cases to rely on the illegal immigrants already here. But that is a different subject and argument altogether.

Robtard

Originally posted by PVS
speaking of knee-jerk arguing and crying, get the sand out of your vagina, as i was referring to sithsaber's post. now dont we feel silly?

No, I do not feel silly since I asked "are you talking to me"... A simple "no" would have sufficed and rendered what I say non important as you had not directed that comment to me.

sithsaber408

Originally posted by PVS
source?

oh i know:

http://stormfront.org

i love the skewed and shady nature of your figures.

Right, cuz I'm a racist. (you obviously missed my first post a few pages back.)

I'll get you the source for those numbers. (I saw it on some news program.)

But while you wait, lets start with the criminals:

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/criminals.html

Or the victims, perhaps:

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.html

The most recent being actress Adrienne Shelly, who was killed by an illegal immigrant.

PVS

Originally posted by Robtard
No, I do not feel silly since I asked "are you talking to me"... A simple "no" would have sufficed and rendered what I say non important as you had not directed that comment to me.

sorry, i was unable to hack into the kmc server and add "no" to your post as you went on your rant immediately after asking your question...in the same post mind you.

a simple "whoops" would have done the trick.
or you can just cry about it i guess.

Robtard

Originally posted by Bardock42
But they can't get any labour work but illegal ones.

Because for the most part they are not qualified to work as policemen, secretaries, nurses, school bus drivers, engineers, pharmacist etc. etc. etc. people who are generally qualified to work in those types of jobs generally do not cross the border or they do it legally. Do you honestly think 10,000 Mexican college grades are crossing the border every day? They work they labor intensive jobs simply because those are the kind of jobs they are able to perform. It has to do with the level of education, not ethnicity.

PVS

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Right, cuz I'm a racist. (you obviously missed my first post a few pages back.)

I'll get you the source for those numbers. (I saw it on some news program.)

But while you wait, lets start with the criminals:

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/criminals.html

Or the victims, perhaps:

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.html

The most recent being actress Adrienne Shelly, who was killed by an illegal immigrant.

read my post in "idiotic debating tactics" about supporting your argument with "evidence" from agenda based sites, kthxbye

:edit: then again maybe im mistaken, and its a sound tactic...thus we are all controlled by alien jew lizards.

Robtard

Originally posted by PVS
sorry, i was unable to hack into the kmc server and add "no" to your post as you went on your rant immediately after asking your question...in the same post mind you.

a simple "whoops" would have done the trick.
or you can just cry about it i guess.

You missed my point...

I was saying you could have simply replied to my post of "Was that directed at me?" with a "No." That in turn would have rendered what I said afterwards (on the premise you had directed the stormfront response to me) irrelevant.

Whoops.... Let's move on.

sithsaber408

Originally posted by PVS
read my post in "idiotic debating tactics" about supporting your argument with "evidence" from agenda based sites, kthxbye

:edit: then again maybe im mistaken, and its a sound tactic...thus we are all controlled by alien jew lizards.

No.

Read the facts.

The site may want you to see a point, but that doesn't make the cases that they present (fully backed by the corresponding stories of each crime by publication in that city's newspaper, or NBC news,etc...)

and LESS TRUE.

You are truly ignorant to ignore facts (like the poste FBI's most wanted list) simply because the facts are presented by somebody who has a viewpoint on the subject.

The point that they are bringing up is no less valid.

Bardock42

Originally posted by Robtard
Because for the most part they are not qualified to work as policemen, secretaries, nurses, school bus drivers, engineers, pharmacist etc. etc. etc. people who are generally qualified to work in those types of jobs generally do not cross the border or they do it legally. Do you honestly think 10,000 Mexican college grades are crossing the border every day? They work they labor intensive jobs simply because those are the kind of jobs they are able to perform. It has to do with the level of education, not ethnicity.

If that's true what would you lose by making them legal?

PVS

Originally posted by sithsaber408
No.

Read the facts.

deano? is that you?
site original sources instead of being a toolbox mouthpiece for this agenda site you seem to accept as 100% truth

sithsaber408

Originally posted by PVS
deano? is that you?
site original sources instead of being a toolbox mouthpiece for this agenda site you seem to accept as 100% truth

Do you really want me to go through the whole list of victims and criminals, list each one and the corresponding official news source that cites the crime (most often killing or rape/killing) with a website link for you to check....

or can you not just skim the list?

Robtard

Originally posted by Bardock42
If that's true what would you lose by making them legal?

Dude, we covered that... If we make the ones over here legal as a blanket law and ignore the fact that they have broken the law then we have no premise to have a border or an immigration law at all. Which you will say "That would be a great thing!" and I disagree for the reasons I have already stated.

But, I am somewhat for the worker program (what little I know about it) as I do not see the "Kick em all out" mindset to be logical, impractical or even attainable. But that is different than the immigration law debate.

xmarksthespot

Originally posted by Robtard
If by "sort of" you mean "not at all" then yes... I am against illegal immigration, period. But I do see the "throw em all out" view as being illogical as it is unattainable and America has molded itself in many cases to rely on the illegal immigrants already here. But that is a different subject and argument altogether. I.e. you're willing to overlook illegal immigration to the extent that it benefits the U.S. economy, as I take it you would not be for the expulsion of all illegal immigrants if it were feasible.

Bardock42

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I.e. you're willing to overlook illegal immigration to the extent that it benefits the U.S. economy, as I take it you would not be for the expulsion of all illegal immigrants if it were feasible.

Just what I am thinking. Hypocritical bullshit.

PVS

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Do you really want me to go through the whole list of victims and criminals, list each one and the corresponding official news source that cites the crime (most often killing or rape/killing) with a website link for you to check....

or can you not just skim the list?

well, i guess since they say its all legit then it must be.

like with stormfront.org and rense.com

but you can go on tirelessly rebutting in defense of your false and fixed figures without any leads to tangible evidence. thumb up