Pope, aides to discuss celibacy issues: Vatican

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Storm
It is a hopeful sign that they' re at least willing to raise the matter.

Alliance
Catholic doctrine has always had tradition as one of its ceterpieces.

I'd be suprised if it changed, but I think the change would be a welcome one.

Children are humbling in so many ways.

lil bitchiness
Hmm...interesting.

On the other scope, Eastern Orthodox Preast MUST be married in order to become a priest lol

Lord Urizen
So the Catholic Church is having slow progress opening thier mind not only to Gay Marriage, but to Clergy marriage as well....

Atleast it's a step....

Nellinator
I think it would be a good thing for them to reconsider. Peter from whom the papacy claims inheritance of authority was married. Why can't they be?

Alliance
Why can't preists be female?

Oh thats right....women are unclean. Its tradition and the Bilbe says so!

Nellinator
Where?

Alliance
My god, read Exodus and Leviticus.

FeceMan
Originally posted by Storm
It is a hopeful sign that they' re at least willing to raise the matter.
Wait, I thought that the new Pope was superhyperevilmegaNaziton.

Alliance
No, he was just the head of the Inquisition. Nothing to worry about if you're a true Christian (as in the real original Christians (Catholics))

Nellinator
Originally posted by Alliance
My god, read Exodus and Leviticus.
Women are not unclean. Prove to me that they are by using the Bible or stop making your biased assumptions please.

FeceMan
Originally posted by Alliance
No, he was just the head of the Inquisition.
'Cause he's like 8,000 years old or something and Emperor Palpatine, too.

Alliance
Originally posted by Nellinator
Women are not unclean. Prove to me that they are by using the Bible or stop making your biased assumptions please. Please, you often spew ignorance. Biased assumption my arse.

GEN 3:16 - Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. (Women are evil and should be subjugated to men)

EXO - 23:17 Three items in the year all thy males shall appear before the LORD God. (Women are not called before god)

LEV - 12:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean.
12:4 And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying three and thirty days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled.
12:5 But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days. (Baby girls are twice as unclean as baby boys)

LEV - 15:19 And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. (Women are dirty and such they bleed. ANything they touch during menstration is unclean and they cannot approach the altar of God)

LEV - 21:13 And he shall take a wife in her virginity.
21:14 A widow, or a divorced woman, or profane, or an harlot, these shall he not take: but he shall take a virgin of his own people to wife. (Women cannot marry twice, but men have no problem taking multiple wives)

NUM - 3:15 Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. (Women don't count as children of God)

DEU - 5:21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's. (Women are comparable to asses and houses (property))

JUD - 14:18 And the men of the city said unto him on the seventh day before the sun went down, What is sweeter than honey? And what is stronger than a lion? and he said unto them, If ye had not plowed with my heifer, ye had not found out my riddle. (Women are cows)

Incase you think this is an OT thing,

LUK - 2:23 (As it is written in the law of the LORD, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord; (Only men)

TITUS - 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, (2:4-5)
"Teach the young women to be ... obedient to their own husbands."
2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. (women are subordinate.

Is that enough, because its really a waste of my time if you can't read your own holy book.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Alliance
Please, you often spew ignorance. Biased assumption my arse.

GEN 3:16 - Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. (Women are evil and should be subjugated to men)

EXO - 23:17 Three items in the year all thy males shall appear before the LORD God. (Women are not called before god)

LEV - 12:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean.
12:4 And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying three and thirty days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled.
12:5 But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days. (Baby girls are twice as unclean as baby boys)

LEV - 15:19 And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. (Women are dirty and such they bleed. ANything they touch during menstration is unclean and they cannot approach the altar of God)

LEV - 21:13 And he shall take a wife in her virginity.
21:14 A widow, or a divorced woman, or profane, or an harlot, these shall he not take: but he shall take a virgin of his own people to wife. (Women cannot marry twice, but men have no problem taking multiple wives)

NUM - 3:15 Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. (Women don't count as children of God)

DEU - 5:21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's. (Women are comparable to asses and houses (property))

JUD - 14:18 And the men of the city said unto him on the seventh day before the sun went down, What is sweeter than honey? And what is stronger than a lion? and he said unto them, If ye had not plowed with my heifer, ye had not found out my riddle. (Women are cows)

Incase you think this is an OT thing,

LUK - 2:23 (As it is written in the law of the LORD, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord; (Only men)

TITUS - 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, (2:4-5)
"Teach the young women to be ... obedient to their own husbands."
2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. (women are subordinate.

Is that enough, because its really a waste of my time if you can't read your own holy book.
Exactly what I thought you would say. And predictable too I might add. You completely ignore all the things men do to make themselves unclean as I suspected. You try to victimize women as I expected. And you even made the same false conclusions I thought you would make. Another note is that only two of these are about uncleanliness, so you wasted more time than I intended for you.

GEN 3:16
All humans are evil by nature, not just women. This is biblical fact.

EXO 23:17
Taken out of context. They gather to bring their sacrifices from their farms and such. Men bring it and this is not sexist in the least. Nice try.

LEV 15:19
Blood spreads disease, it is a basis of Biblical medical law. They also weren't allowed to eat meat with blood in it. Just like men were unclean for seven days if they ejaculated. Stop trying to victimize women. They were simply being sanitary.

LEV 21:13
Men weren't allowed to commit adultery either. Men can reproduce faster which is why it was common practice back in those days. It's not really sexist, it is even understandable. Even at that, multiple wives was not encouraged.

NUM 3:15
By your admission neither do males under one month old. No, you pulled this way out of context. The males were counted as part of the census (hence the reason the book is called Numbers). Why, because these males were all set aside to become priests.

DEUT 5:21
It's amazing how you can sum it up like that. Women are in no way being compared in that way. In fact, the Hebrews liked to write things in order of importance. And look at that, the wife is more valuable than any of a man's possessions. Once again not sexist.

JUD 14:18
Wow, you must not have read this passage. This was said by Samson, notorious example of a womanizer which brought his downfall. One of the morals of his story is not be an idiot to women and to avoid sexual immorality. Samson was sexist, but it is not a reflection on God.

LUK 2:23
"Opening the womb" means firstborn male. He is the heir according to God. Not just males, it is only the firstborn son because he is the heir.

TITUS 2:4
You should probably take into consideration everything Paul has to say on the matter. Most specifically when he fully addresses the matter of marriage in 1 Corinthians 7. "The husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife".
The woman own his husbands body? Arise men and fight for your right to be strong and independent, blah, blah, blah. No if I said that I would be taking the verse out of context like you. Instead I take into consideration the fact that right before that it says that "the wife's body does not belong to to her alone, but also to her husband". This strongly indicates a equal relationship.

The Bible recognizes men and women as different but equal so get over it. The Bible is very supportive of women and shows women in positions of power in both church (deaconesses) and government (Deborah the Judge).

Alliance
The word delusional comes to mind. Your rebuttals are flimsy and innacurate. I let the Bible speak for itself.

You book, taken literally, is dead wrong. Get over it. Accept the good parts of the religion. And move on.

Women are subordinate to men. That is not equal. Get it?

Women endure harsher punishements for the same crimes as men. That is not equal. Get it?

Women are often not included in the rites of god. That is not equal. Get it?

FeceMan
Originally posted by Alliance
Lots of verses and shit.
You have to be joking.

Please, tell me that you're joking.

Because pulling verses so far out of context and deliberately misinterpreting them causes me pain.
Originally posted by Alliance
The word delusional comes to mind. Your rebuttals are flimsy and innacurate. I let the Bible speak for itself.

You book, taken literally, is dead wrong. Get over it. Accept the good parts of the religion. And move on.
When you're an idiot and purposely ruin parts of the Bible in an attempt to validate your beliefs, you are the one who is delusional. Tell me, from which tardtheist site did you steal that list?

Nellinator
Originally posted by Alliance
The word delusional comes to mind. Your rebuttals are flimsy and innacurate. I let the Bible speak for itself.

You book, taken literally, is dead wrong. Get over it. Accept the good parts of the religion. And move on.

Women are subordinate to men. That is not equal. Get it?

Women endure harsher punishements for the same crimes as men. That is not equal. Get it?

Women are often not included in the rites of god. That is not equal. Get it?
I even interpreted literally for you and clarified. I didn't use metaphors or anything.

Women are subordinate and so are men. They share equal ownership of each other and mutual consent is required. Adultery is punishable by death both ways. Men and women become "one flesh" as the Bible says. Very equal while being different. Men and women are equally limited.

What rites, women are allowed to go to the altar and sacrifice, they can worship, they can pray, they can take communion, and they can be baptized. What rites are they excluded from?
Originally posted by FeceMan
You have to be joking.

Please, tell me that you're joking.

Because pulling verses so far out of context and deliberately misinterpreting them causes me pain.

When you're an idiot and purposely ruin parts of the Bible in an attempt to validate your beliefs, you are the one who is delusional. Tell me, from which tardtheist site did you steal that list?
Very deliberatly misinterpreting. The Deuteronomy one nearly made me cry laughing at its stupidity.

FeceMan
Originally posted by Nellinator
Women are subordinate and so are men. They share equal ownership of each other and mutual consent is required. Adultery is punishable by death both ways. Men and women become "one flesh" as the Bible says. Very equal while being different. Men and women are equally limited.
How dare you say that women are different from men, you sexist bastard...what with your...words...and stuff.

Alliance
The Bible clearly states that women are subordinate to men.

Thats a fairly twisted view of "equal"

Nellinator
Originally posted by FeceMan
How dare you say that women are different from men, you sexist bastard...what with your...words...and stuff.
laughing out loud
Originally posted by Alliance
The Bible clearly states that women are subordinate to men.

Thats a fairly twisted view of "equal"
It also says "husbands love your wives as you love yourselves" or something like that. That takes care of that little problem quite easily. It also says that women get treated well by their husbands, men must be faithful, etc. Women were off just fine. They were not victims in the least.

Alliance
Treat well, as meaning "do what youre told because its good for you."

laughing As usual, its only a matter of time before the truth of your opinon comes out. "Women were off just fine. They were not victims in the least."

Nellinator
Originally posted by Alliance
Treat well, as meaning "do what youre told because its good for you."

laughing As usual, its only a matter of time before the truth of your opinon comes out. "Women were off just fine. They were not victims in the least."
And what is wrong with it? I believe in equality for women, what did I say contrary to that?

Alliance
Nellinator's equality=subjugation.

This explains a lot. Thanks for bringing this up.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Alliance
Nellinator's equality=subjugation.

This explains a lot. Thanks for bringing this up.
Well, I would not subjugate my wife to myself because I would love her as I love myself and respect her. Therefore your argument is wrong. Sorry.

Alliance
No, the only thing that is wrong is you going against a literalist interpretation of the bible.

Which is ironic since you support literlaism so much.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Alliance
No, the only thing that is wrong is you going against a literalist interpretation of the bible.

Which is ironic since you support literlaism so much.
I would not go against it in any way. The Bible literally makes it the wife's choice and then ultimately the man's choice to decide what to do. The Bible encourages equality in marriage through love, respect, and mutual consent.

lil bitchiness
Wait, im confused. OT is a Jewish scripture too, is it not?-

Does that mean that Jews are just as mislead in their religion as Christians, since OT is their scripture as well?

Or does that just mean that Christians are perverted backward versions of Jews, who are taking it too literaly?

Nellinator
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Wait, im confused. OT is a Jewish scripture too, is it not?-

Does that mean that Jews are just as mislead in their religion as Christians, since OT is their scripture as well?

Or does that just mean that Christians are perverted backward versions of Jews, who are taking it too literaly?
I would say that most Jews treat their wives well and that those that don't are not following the Bible. Its pretty simple.

FeceMan
The Bible discriminates against MALES.

It says that husbands should love their wives as Christ loved the church--so a husband should be prepared to DIE for his wife! What kind of equality is that?! A man is COMMANDED to die for his wife? EVEN THOUGH SHE IS COMPLETELY INFERIOR TO HIM BECAUSE THE BIBLE ALLEGEDLY SAID SO?!

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by FeceMan
The Bible discriminates against MALES.

It says that husbands should love their wives as Christ loved the church--so a husband should be prepared to DIE for his wife! What kind of equality is that?! A man is COMMANDED to die for his wife? EVEN THOUGH SHE IS COMPLETELY INFERIOR TO HIM BECAUSE THE BIBLE ALLEGEDLY SAID SO?!

Neither gender should be treated inferior or superior.

The Bible clearly states women must submit to men.

FeceMan
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Neither gender should be treated inferior or superior.

The Bible clearly states women must submit to men.
Yeah, and men have to die for their wives.

THAT'S NOT EQUAL TREATMENT SEXISM BLAARGH AND STUFF

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by FeceMan
Yeah, and men have to die for their wives.

THAT'S NOT EQUAL TREATMENT SEXISM BLAARGH AND STUFF

You don't think women should die for thier husbands either ? It should only be men who defend thier family ?

FeceMan
*Sighs.*

I. Give. Up.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by FeceMan
*Sighs.*

I. Give. Up.

As I knew you would. Pity no Christians fail to sort out the details of thier own Faith by and large. thumb down

Nellinator
Originally posted by FeceMan
The Bible discriminates against MALES.

It says that husbands should love their wives as Christ loved the church--so a husband should be prepared to DIE for his wife! What kind of equality is that?! A man is COMMANDED to die for his wife? EVEN THOUGH SHE IS COMPLETELY INFERIOR TO HIM BECAUSE THE BIBLE ALLEGEDLY SAID SO?!
Originally posted by FeceMan
Yeah, and men have to die for their wives.

THAT'S NOT EQUAL TREATMENT SEXISM BLAARGH AND STUFF
Originally posted by FeceMan
*Sighs.*

I. Give. Up.
Perhaps we need a new thread.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Neither gender should be treated inferior or superior.

The Bible clearly states women must submit to men.
And then encourages men to treat women as they would themselves. It also says that a married couple become one. It also says that they own each other. It must be taken as a whole. Women are to listen to their husbands, but a loving husband would never force his wife to do something against her will. Ultimately the system works out to equality and I'm a functionalist. Jesus was supportive of women, and the OT law actually increased the role of women and gave them much more respect and dignity in society than seen in preceding societies. In practice Biblical marriage is not sexist.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
Perhaps we need a new thread.

And then encourages men to treat women as they would themselves. It also says that a married couple become one. It also says that they own each other. It must be taken as a whole. Women are to listen to their husbands, but a loving husband would never force his wife to do something against her will. Ultimately the system works out to equality and I'm a functionalist. Jesus was supportive of women, and the OT law actually increased the role of women and gave them much more respect and dignity in society than seen in preceding societies. In practice Biblical marriage is not sexist.

1) Yes, Jesus was very supportive of women, and what is pretty cool is that the majority of his disciples happen to have been....WOMEN ! eek!

I never heard Jesus tell them to submit to thier husbands, however.

2) Telling a woman to always listen to her husband, but not telling the husband to always listen to the wife is sexist.


Feceman argues that men must die to protect thier wives. Shouldn't wives ALSO die to protect their husbands ?

I know many women who would courageously die to save the lives of thier beloved husbands, the same way they would die to save thier children. Not to get all homosexual on you, but there are also women who are willing to die for thier female lovers as well.

I do not think Gender should determine a role.

Regret
Fact: The Bible is sexist.

Some Comments:

Any organized group needs a leader, a spokesman, if you will. Defining which member will be such is a wise decision imo. Is the spokesman greater than any member of the group? The husband, as the spokesman for the family with God, is also the messenger to the family from God. Statements to wive's obedience to their husbands is in reference to this not to men being rulers in any fashion.

Women being unclean by blood is in reference to health. It is unwise to have sex during a womans estrus cycle. During this time probability of the woman having a UTI is greatly increased. Further interpretation beyond this is most likely error on the interpretter's part. Second, following pregnancy it is unhealthy, and is advised against by the medical community, for approximately six weeks, or in other words about three-score days. Me, as a husband, I hate this time, six weeks without sex? That sucks. All forthe subordinate woman's health (Sarcasm if you missed it.)

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