The Omniverse, (the structure of all Comic Universes)

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Horrificus

Horrificus

Horrificus
For the sake of discussion within these threads, (and our own peace of mind), we should have a common understanding of the structure of the Omniverse, and all "Realms" within.

I like the idea of using the term "Realm" as an umbrella statement that covers all types of Localized Existence. The properties of a Realm usually have no impact, relation or significance to any other Realm. In other words, as we all know, if you slip into a pocket dimension, although, from inside, it COULD seem to be the size of an entire Universe, it is still, technically, WITHIN it's Core Universe. And, from outside, could seem relatively minute. It could be considered a type of
Tesseract.

Please note that most of these terms are recognized in the sciences. A "Realm" can be a/an:

1. Omniverse- Containing Multiverses.
2. Multiverse- Containing Universes.
3. Universe- Containing Galaxies and Known Space from within it's
Universal Boundry. Also, possibly containing, in some
manner, other Dimensions, Microverses and Realms.
4. Timeline Divergent- Omniverse, Multiverse, Universe.
5. Miniverse- A Single Universe as a Core with All connected Pocket
Dimensions, Microverses, Subdimensions and
SubMicroverses spaning from each larger Realm.
6. Dimension- A Realm that is somehow connected to the Core
Universe. Can be Mystic or Physical in nature.
examples (Cyttorak's Realm and Negative Zone)
Each of these can Spawn, View or Lead To other Realms
7. Microverse- Technically, just a different Dimension, spawned from
the Core. Tesseract, or version of? Contained in
the "Inner Space" of a Core Universe.

Horrificus
If I am within the Negative Zone, observing the Birth of a Universe, I am standing:

1. In a Realm that is an Offshoot or Pocket Dimension
who's Core Universe is the 616.
2. Either, looking at the birth of a Universe within the Negative Zone
because it's physical laws and size and dimensions allow
for "Universes" to exist within it. Or, possibly looking through a
Portal at an entirely separate Core Universe, Pocket Universe,
Multiverse, etc.
But, if it is a universe within the Negative Zone, it is still a
SubUniverse contained within the Core.

The point to being a separate Dimension, Universe, Reality, etc, is that it's physical and mystic laws may have nothing in common with the Core.
A Different Dimension can have Different Dimensions, (meaning properties). Cyttorak's realm may seem to be a small pocket dimension. Yet, once within, it may be literally "Endless".

Miniverse -10 -9 -8 -7 -6 -5 -4 -3 -2 -1 Core 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Multiverse

So, if Marvel Universe 616 is a Core Universe:
We look within, it will have it's own Pocket Dimensions and possibly Universes, all contained in it. The 616 Miniverse.
Outside of the 616 Universe, is the Multiverse it exists in. The Marvel Multiverse?

darthgoober
I hate to be the one to point this out, but DC and Marvel don't share an omniverse. I know it doesn't really make sense because the omniverse is supposed to be EVERYTHING, but the companies are completely separate in and of themselves. Otherwise, the Chaos Wave(which was stated to be an omniversal threat) would have been a threat to DC also. Think about it, if the companies shared an omniverse, that would mean that the Chaos Wave(which was an omniversal threat) would have been beyond the power of TOAA to stop. Think of it like this, if Marvel had decided to shut down and close the company, and their method of doing this was to leave the Chaos Wave unchecked and have it destroy the entire omniverse on-panel, would that mean that DC would have to shut down too since all of their characters were destroyed?

By the same token, since Pre Recton Beyonder was stated to be everything outside of Marvel's multiverse, that would mean that he was composed of everything in DC also(including the Source). So for events like The Secret Wars & Secret Wars 2, DC shouldn't have been able to produce any of their own books, because all of the beings in DC were messing around in Marvel.

So the companies each have their own omniverse, independent of one each other, until they acknowledge that they will abide by the others decisions regardin the omniverse.

Horrificus

Horrificus
Originally posted by darthgoober
I hate to be the one to point this out, but DC and Marvel don't share an omniverse. I know it doesn't really make sense because the omniverse is supposed to be EVERYTHING, but the companies are completely separate in and of themselves. Otherwise, the Chaos Wave(which was stated to be an omniversal threat) would have been a threat to DC also. Think about it, if the companies shared an omniverse, that would mean that the Chaos Wave(which was an omniversal threat) would have been beyond the power of TOAA to stop. Think of it like this, if Marvel had decided to shut down and close the company, and their method of doing this was to leave the Chaos Wave unchecked and have it destroy the entire omniverse on-panel, would that mean that DC would have to shut down too since all of their characters were destroyed?

By the same token, since Pre Recton Beyonder was stated to be everything outside of Marvel's multiverse, that would mean that he was composed of everything in DC also(including the Source). So for events like The Secret Wars & Secret Wars 2, DC shouldn't have been able to produce any of their own books, because all of the beings in DC were messing around in Marvel.

So the companies each have their own omniverse, independent of one each other, until they acknowledge that they will abide by the others decisions regardin the omniverse.
Great! It has started.

That may be. If it is, fine.

I will give us a way out. We can say that the Separate Omniverses exists within an all-encompassing Megaverse or Macroverse.

Let's see what other people have to say about your statement first, because I don't think I should chime in yet. There are more knowledgeable people in here than me.

manorastroman
Originally posted by darthgoober
I hate to be the one to point this out, but DC and Marvel don't share an omniverse. I know it doesn't really make sense because the omniverse is supposed to be EVERYTHING, but the companies are completely separate in and of themselves. Otherwise, the Chaos Wave(which was stated to be an omniversal threat) would have been a threat to DC also. Think about it, if the companies shared an omniverse, that would mean that the Chaos Wave(which was an omniversal threat) would have been beyond the power of TOAA to stop. Think of it like this, if Marvel had decided to shut down and close the company, and their method of doing this was to leave the Chaos Wave unchecked and have it destroy the entire omniverse on-panel, would that mean that DC would have to shut down too since all of their characters were destroyed?

By the same token, since Pre Recton Beyonder was stated to be everything outside of Marvel's multiverse, that would mean that he was composed of everything in DC also(including the Source). So for events like The Secret Wars & Secret Wars 2, DC shouldn't have been able to produce any of their own books, because all of the beings in DC were messing around in Marvel.

So the companies each have their own omniverse, independent of one each other, until they acknowledge that they will abide by the others decisions regardin the omniverse.

actually they do share an omniverse. omniverse also includes our (meaning yours and mine) reality as well as every fiction devised. what they don't share are multiverses.

to my knowledge, no threat in either company has ever been omniversal. the chaos wave was most definitely not omniversal. pre-retcon beyonder doesn't exist, because that's the nature of a retcon. everything he did was illusion.

golem370
Very detailed beyond my knowledge.

xmarksthespot
... that you take from online bios.

Horrificus
Originally posted by golem370
Very detailed beyond my knowledge.
No it's not. You're smart.

Omniverse has EVERYTHING in it. It is filled with Multiverses.

Each Comic Book Company that deals with Multiple Universes can be considered a Separate Multiverse.

Each Core Universe can be filled with Pocket Dimensions, Micro-Universes or Alternate Realities.

I will create an Image of all this.

darthgoober
Originally posted by manorastroman
actually they do share an omniverse. omniverse also includes our (meaning yours and mine) reality as well as every fiction devised. what they don't share are multiverses.

to my knowledge, no threat in either company has ever been omniversal. the chaos wave was most definitely not omniversal. pre-retcon beyonder doesn't exist, because that's the nature of a retcon. everything he did was illusion.
The Chaos Wave was most definitely an omniversal threat(though I will give you the thing about the Beyonder's recton). Jim Jaspers was also an omniversal threat.

Unless the companies get together and agree to abide by each others decisions regarding the omniverse, they have to be considered to reside in their own, it's just that simple. Let's say I go out tomorrow and start a small independent comic company. Well, by your definition, my company would automatically be part of the established omniverse, right? Well, let's say that after a couple of years my company's going under, and(being angry about losing my business) I use the last issue I publish to have an omniversal threat destroy the omniverse on panel. Does that mean that DC and Marvel have to close down, or even acknowledge the event? NO. Because they aren't bound by my decisions regarding the omniverse in any way shape or form. So they completely ignore the event(justifiably), safe in their own omniverses, away from any decisions that I make.

Horrificus
Please, if possible, supply any scans that include the terminology of "Omniverse".

If it is valid, we will just move up a notch, and start at Megaverse or Macroverse, to be safe. It, THAT will include the separate Omniverses.

If it has to be done.

darthgoober
I got to go find the stuff about the chaos wave, but here's a scan of Merlin talking about Jim Jaspers being a threat to the omniverse...

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/461/jas1ig2.th.jpg

Galan777
Originally posted by Horrificus
Please, if possible, supply any scans that include the terminology of "Omniverse".

If it is valid, we will just move up a notch, and start at Megaverse or Macroverse, to be safe. It, THAT will include the separate Omniverses.

If it has to be done. "in all the omniverse, there is not one universe that I cannot destroy at the touch of a switch."

http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=e8tr6.jpg

darthgoober
Originally posted by Galan777
"in all the omniverse, there is not one universe that I cannot destroy at the touch of a switch."

http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=e8tr6.jpg
Good one Galan.

Horrificus
Well, they seem to throw the term around a lot, but it doesn't show any power over, or interaction on an Omniversal Level.

Which means, they are talking about the Omniverse, but then they are talking about how they can effect individual universes.

Is there anything showing anybody doing anything on an Omniversal Level? Remember, that would consisit of effecting "Multiverses" the way that character was talking about effecting "Universes".

Know what I mean?

invisiblewoman
wow okay i am so confused now . . . the omniverse is all comics combined marvel, dc, etc . . . or not? in fact what is it? i have have heard so many different deffinitions hmm confused

Galan777
Originally posted by Horrificus
Well, they seem to throw the term around a lot, but it doesn't show any power over, or interaction on an Omniversal Level.

Which means, they are talking about the Omniverse, but then they are talking about how they can effect individual universes.

Is there anything showing anybody doing anything on an Omniversal Level? Remember, that would consisit of effecting "Multiverses" the way that character was talking about effecting "Universes".

Know what I mean? You asked where an omniverse has been mentioned. It seems like now you are dismissing the fact that the omniverse has been mentioned in Marvel continuity.

Having no omniversal feats dosen't mean that there isnt an omniverse in Marvel. It just means that no one has really effected it "yet"

Thanos_THOTU
The term Omniverse was invented at the same time as the DC vs marvel took place.
First it was supose to be all of Marvel and DC combinded.
Later they said it was the term for every possible universe, Marvel, DC; Image, Dark Horse and even our own reality.
Of course this did not last.
And at least the Marvel Megaverse was dubbed to the Omniverse.
And the Megaverse was just an other name for the Multiverse. - Just to specify that it was all universes in Marvel and just not one.

invisiblewoman
so when reffering to the omniverse it is all multiverses of Marvel only? not DC or any other comics etc . . . ?

Galan777
Originally posted by invisiblewoman
so when reffering to the omniverse it is all multiverses of Marvel only? not DC or any other comics etc . . . ? Well technically Marvel has its own Omniverse (infinite ammount of Multiverses)

and DC has........... whatever it has.

invisiblewoman
okay . . . sorry to sound like a lost puppy butit is easy to get confused everyone says something different! or you hear one thing and then it changes laughing out loud however thanks for clearing that up!

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by Galan777
Well technically Marvel has its own Omniverse (infinite ammount of Multiverses)

and DC has........... whatever it has.
No the Omniverse is an infinity amount of universe's, if not, then post proof or GTFO

Galan777
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
No the Omniverse is an infinity amount of universe's, if not, then post proof or GTFO Who are you again?

Did you not see the scan speaking of an Omniverse within Marvel?

And explain the difference between an infinite ammount of universes, and an infinite ammount of multiverses, they seem like they add up to the same.... roll eyes (sarcastic)

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by Galan777
Who are you again?

Did you not see the scan speaking of an Omniverse within Marvel?

And explain the difference between an infinite ammount of universes, and an infinite ammount of multiverses, they seem like much the same to me....
There a switch for every universe in the omniverse ...
Can't you read?

Galan777
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
There a switch for every universe in the omniverse ...
Can't you read? the scan said, he could destroy every universe in the omniverse with the flip of a switch. Can you read? roll eyes (sarcastic)

http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=e8tr6.jpg

darthgoober
Ok, I'm going to straiten this whole thing out right now.

Let's say for a minute that the omniverse actually is EVERYTHING. Meaning all comic companies, all works of fiction, AND the "real" world we live in. Ok, check out this little thing I just wrote....

Once upon a time, there was this crazy wizard who hated everyone, so he decided to kill them all. He spent years gather magical energies and preparing one huge spell to take them all out. He then unleashed the spell and destroyed the ENTIRE omniverse(the ACTUAL omniverse to, the sum of EVERYTHING, all comics, fictions, and everything else).

THE END


Wow, we're still here. That's odd, cause we're supposedly apart of the same omniverse. And why haven't Marvel and DC shut down? I destroyed all their characters just now. Could it be because even though my omniverse was supposed to include EVERYTHING, it was actually separate from from the omniverse's present in comics, and the real world, even though the concept goes against the strict definition of the word omniverse?

Hmm... Interesting.

Thanos_THOTU

darthgoober

Galan777

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok, I'm going to straiten this whole thing out right now.

Let's say for a minute that the omniverse actually is EVERYTHING. Meaning all comic companies, all works of fiction, AND the "real" world we live in. Ok, check out this little thing I just wrote....

Once upon a time, there was this crazy wizard who hated everyone, so he decided to kill them all. He spent years gather magical energies and preparing one huge spell to take them all out. He then unleashed the spell and destroyed the ENTIRE omniverse(the ACTUAL omniverse to, the sum of EVERYTHING, all comics, fictions, and everything else).

THE END


Wow, we're still here. That's odd, cause we're supposedly apart of the same omniverse. And why haven't Marvel and DC shut down? I destroyed all their characters just now. Could it be because even though my omniverse was supposed to include EVERYTHING, it was actually separate from from the omniverse's present in comics, and the real world, even though the concept goes against the strict definition of the word omniverse?

Hmm... Interesting.
They pre-retconned the event.
They said the brother's were the two most powerful being that could ever potential exist throughout the omniverse.
It's like saying, Pre-retcon Amalgam Bros could take down:
MoM, PR Beyonder, GEB and a lot of more God over comic's/fiction's ect. Like nothing at all.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
They pre-retconned the event.
They said the brother's were the two most powerful being that could ever potential exist throughout the omniverse.
It's like saying, Pre-retcon Amalgam Bros could take down:
MoM, PR Beyonder, GEB and a lot of more God over comic's/fiction's ect. Like nothing at all.
Yes but if EVERYTHING is a part of the same omniverse, then my destroying the omniverse(cannon to me), should have taken effect. The only possible explanation is that despite what I put down, the omniverse I was talking about was separate from everything else. It would be separate because I have NO jurisdiction over the event. Hence, they have their OWN omniverse which is untouchable by anyone but themselves.

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by Galan777
that was him personally saying that HE could destroy ANY universe in the omniverse.

Thats beside the point, Marvel has an omniverse and its either composed of an infinite ammount of multiverses or an infinite ammount of universes, but either way that adds up to the same thing.
http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=e8tr6ul0.jpg
He would have to turn a lot of switches down to equal infinity, don'tu think?
The omniverse now seems to be like te old beyond realm, it's in that place Roma and Merlyn hangs out.

Galan777
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=e8tr6ul0.jpg
He would have to turn a lot of switches down to equal infinity, don'tu think?
The omniverse now seems to be like te old beyond realm, it's in that place Roma and Merlyn hangs out. OK, he didnt say he was going to destroy the omniverse, he said that he could destroy any universe within the omniverse that he wanted to.

Read the scan carefully

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes but if EVERYTHING is a part of the same omniverse, then my destroying the omniverse(cannon to me), should have taken effect. The only possible explanation is that despite what I put down, the omniverse I was talking about was separate from everything else. It would be separate because I have NO jurisdiction over the event. Hence, they have their OWN omniverse which is untouchable by anyone but themselves.
Marvel would be sued down to hell if they even said that it contained an other fiction's comic.
That's one of the reasons why DC v M was retconed.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Marvel would be sued down to hell if they even said that it contained an other fiction's comic.
That's one of the reasons why DC v M was retconed.
So that means that it's omniverse is seperate from the others.

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by darthgoober
So that means that it's omniverse is seperate from the others.
Yes ...
Marvel and DC don't have the right to say thet their supreme beings are more 'supreme' than anyone elses. - At least not canon-wise.
So they had to retcon it.

But now the Omniverse seems to be a realm, from where you can control all the universes in Marvel.
Like with Merlyn and captain Britain.
Jim Jasper's where a threat to the Omniverse, he was actually a threat to just that realm.
It was said that the wielder of Excalibur could rewrite cosmos. Not the omniverse as some say.
And the chaos wave could reach that realm.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Yes ...
Marvel and DC don't have the right to say thet their supreme beings are more 'supreme' than anyone elses. - At least not canon-wise.
So they had to retcon it.

But now the Omniverse seems to be a realm, from where you can control all the universes in Marvel.
Like with Merlyn and captain Britain.
Jim Jasper's where a threat to the Omniverse, he was actually a threat to just that realm.
It was said that the wielder of Excalibur could rewrite cosmos. Not the omniverse as some say.
And the chaos wave could reach that realm.
Well my whole point all along has been that Marvel and DC have separate omniverse's independent of each other(meaning that they can't be lumped into a single omniverse that contains all comics). So cool.

Mr Master
Ok ok, let me just stop the madness.


This thread while honorable in it's attempt is causing mass confusion.


Marvel has it's own Omni-verse, period.

DC, as far as I know, has NEVER mentioned the word Omni-verse.


In Marvel, the Omni-verse is an Infinite amount of Multi-verses, or ALL the Multi-verses in Marvel, period.



You'll have to READ this completely if you wish to understand.


The Omniversal Architecture

When Warlock first exited the Multi-verse, he entered a place called the Cosmic Vortex.
http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/3198/adamgoesbtwnuniverses15yh.th.jpg


In it, an INFINITE number of MULTI-VERSES are spiralling upward, while below lies Oblivion, (the ultimate Abstract in terms of everlasting), swallowing Multi-verses that collapse, are nullified, have a weakened Anchor (like Atleza) ect...

http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/7376/adamgoesbtwnuniverses26zw.th.jpg


These are MULTI-VERSES!


When I realized that Thanos DID in fact, Absorb MORE than just a UNIVERSE, that he actually absorbed ALL he could (which is the MULTI-VERSE)

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/4876/teb9kg7.th.jpg



He absorbs Eternity and Infinity and there is still Space and star stuff behind

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/741/t2gw1oa6.th.jpg
This is not a designed attack, he's saying it himself "it's Out of Control"

Like a raging drunk, who's not selective in a brawl, anything in the way goes, and with that KIND of Power, that means everything goes. (like it did)



Here it continues,



"For IF this BAND (LT, Eternity/Infinity) Could Defy Me...might not OTHERS* be equally Foolish?"
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/4746/t6bi7.th.jpg
"Could I ALLOW ANY to question my divine Authority?"


"NO....So I CONTINUED to Absorb ALL that MIGHT Threaten my Reign...Until....
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/2830/t7fq0.th.jpg


See...He's absorbing MORE SPACE now, where is this SPACE coming from if he already absorbed ALL of Space and Time?

I'll answer that,


It has to be coming from the Multi-verse, there is no other way to look at it.
*(That's WHO these OTHERS are that MIGHT be equally foolish, the rest of Space, in other words, the MULTI-VERSE)


WHO else COULD question his authority, except anyone left in the MULTI-VERSE.


CAN'T be the Universe, he just ABSORBED the Universe (Eternity/Infinity remember)




Now your saying to yourself, fine, that conclusively despicts Thanos absorbing the Multi-verse.

But Mr M showed scans of the Cosmic Vortex, where an INFINITE number of Multi-verses are,

How could Thanos have absorbed ALL he could, when he ONLY absorbed ONE Multi-verse?

Now we go back to the OMNIVERSAL structure:




The OMNI-VERSE and the rest of the Multi-verses rest with in the Cosmic Vortex.

See those little Purple Balls, thats where Atleza is (the Cosmic Anchor of the "616" Multi-verse)...

and every little Purple Ball is the Domain of an Anchor of a Multi-verse ...

Each Domain is Outside the Multiverse...Untouched by Space or Time....

The much bigger Blue Balls represent EACH a Multi-verse, and the SUM of the Blue Balls is the Omni-verse.

http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/8021/unilook17qj.th.jpg
http://img280.imageshack.us/img280/9715/unilook21qc.th.jpg

Anything Outside the Blue Balls is Untouched by Space & Time,
which Multi-Eternity/Infinity encompass.

See how the Blue Balls (Multi-verses) are separate from each other, and how the little Purple Balls (the Anchor's domain) are separated from the Blue Balls.

This is why Atleza, Gamora and Warlock were untouched, they were there, in A little Purple Ball, (the Anchors domain, Outside it's respective Multi-verse)

This why Thanos could not absorb more, he absorbed everything within that Blue Ball (a Multi-verse) and evidently, he could not reach any furthur

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/991/allhecouldum7.th.jpg
"Nothing Remained"

Remember he was "Out of Control"

He kept on absorbing till there was nothing left for him to absorb (literally), HAD he been able to absorb everything Outside his Multi-verse, it would have been no problem with TOAA's power,

But Thanos was NOT able to do it, meaning that's as FAR as TOAA permitted his power to be used, absorption of a Multi-verse and Remaking that same Multi-verse, even though being the most powerful being in the Omni-verse.

Mr Master
Simply put,

the Omni-verse is all the Multi-verses in Marvel, nothing more.


The Living Tribunal is the Judge of ALL the Multi-verses:

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2994/lt2cm.th.jpg



Marvel has an Omni-verse (an Infinite number of Multi-verses)


This is how it looks from the INSIDE:

The OMNI-VERSE

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/9923/omni2cn6.th.jpg
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/211/omni3uj8.th.jpg


And


This is how it looks from the OUTSIDE:

http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/7376/adamgoesbtwnuniverses26zw.th.jpg



And


Every Multi-verse is Infinite and every Universe within every Multi-verse is Infinite aswell:

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/7402/multi13vs.th.jpg
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7421/multieternity16do.th.jpg

Mr Master
History of the VERSUS


None of what you said was FACT, except for that Eternity started out as a single Universe,

but that was WAYYYYYYYY back in the day, (1967 is the first time we see the Universe in full, it was just an Infinite number of GALAXIES then)

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/8670/i1qs2.th.jpg


before Marvel expanded it's Universe into a Multi-verse in 1976, with the first issue of What If,

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/3586/i2jo2.th.jpg


Then in 1983 the Omni-verse is mentioned for the first time (this is a remake of the original issue, same art, just with Color, original was Black & White)

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/2948/ommx4.th.jpg


At first the Omni-verse was exclusively used in Captain Britain associated titles only (though these were published by Marvel), years later it transitioned into the mainstream Marvel Reality.


And that's the History of the VERSES in Marvel,

Mr Master
The Omniversal Tribune can Erase any Universe they want.

"Destroy an ENTIRE Universe, are you people insane"?
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/9969/e5na4.th.jpg
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/2561/e6qo5.th.jpg


"an ENTIRE Universe OBLITERATED in an Instant"
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/9369/e7fg1.th.jpg


"In ALL the OMNI-VERSE there is NOT ONE Universe that I cannot DESTROY at the Touch of a Switch"
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/3205/e8tr6.th.jpg

Mr Master
Someone tried to dispute what I, and I alone said,

that Captain Britain or Excalibur and th Amulet of Right more specifically can RE-WRITE the Omni-verse:


Captain Britain acquires the Sword of Might (Excalibur)
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/4099/r24xw9.th.jpg

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/7177/r21kj5.th.jpg



Roma says, "to wield Excalibur is to Hold the HAND of GOD itself"
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/7830/r22vp5.th.jpg



Excalibur, One of Two Talismen of Power, the other being the Amulet of Right, TOGETHER, their Power could sunder the Omni-verse
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/7714/r23op3.th.jpg


Or Re-Write the Cosmos
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/6563/ex1gj1.th.jpg


Is this hyperbole?

Well let's see the ON PANEL EVIDENCE shall we.

Mr Master
This is MERLIN, with the SWROD of MIGHT (Excalibur) ONLY.



Merlin with the Sword of Might (Excalibur) plays a Game of Chess with the MULTI-VERSE


Merlin and Roma begin a game of Chess and Multi-verse 616 is their Chess Board.
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1920/m1rx1.th.jpg



Notice there are many Chess Boards floating around them, EACH Board representing a Multi-verse
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3724/m2nv7.th.jpg



As Merlin and Roma moved their Chess Pieces, Reality is Altered accordingly
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/7885/m3yx7.th.jpg
Even Mad Jim Jaspers, (the Omniversal threat) is just One of their Game Pieces



The Game continues
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/1174/m4ue9.th.jpg
Merlin realizes he underestimated the determination of the Fury (a creature created by Jaspers 238)



Merlin says, "I've missed something, I, of all people"
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/9338/m5sz7.th.jpg
Roma responds, "No one is infallible Father, sometimes I think a strong wind will blow you over"
Merlin replies, "Ah yes, but I MAKE the WINDS"



Roma says, "and that Father, did you make that"?
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/9697/m6he3.th.jpg
That's the Fury.



As the Fury is about to kill Linda Mcquillan (Captain UK) in Multi-verse 616.
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/8533/m7rl3.th.jpg
Merlin protects her, by covering the Chess piece with his hands



As you can see, his hands get burned by the Fury (a creature that killed every Super hero in the 238 Universe within TWO Hours)
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/589/m8kd5.th.jpg
The Fury is in disbelief that Linda survived



Roma begins to have a vision, Jaspers was not supposed to be part of this Game she thinks, but Merlin set it up like that (later we learn he's training her for her future position as Omniversal Guardian), and if a Multi-verse has to DIE in order to prepare her properly, so be it.
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/1782/m9ej7.th.jpghttp://img349.imageshack.us/img349/2961/m10cr3.th.jpg
"But if this Game is Lost, I see a Universe eaten alive by Chaos, and ANOTHER Universe, and ANOTHER, like Dominos, Tumbling...I see the Future"


continues in the next post...

Mr Master
Continues...


"And it is Cancelled"
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4643/m11lz1.th.jpg



Continues in the next post...

Mr Master
continues...


Roma wants to stop the Game, "with So much at stake (the 616 Multi-verse) your Play is erratic" she tells Merlin.
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/8279/m12an6.th.jpg
Merlin could care less though, her training is more important than ONE Multi-verse, when there's an Infinite number of Multi-verses to Protect.



Merlin gets angry at Roma for wanting to stop the Game
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/9992/m13tn7.th.jpg
but Roma doesn't understand Merlin's motives completely yet



And so the Game proceeds
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/4741/m14sd4.th.jpg



Merlin here begins to focus on Captain Britain, for he too is in this dangerous training and doesn't even know it.
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/3286/m15en5.th.jpg



Merlin says, "I stretched your sanity to the breaking point to prepare you for a Universe (238) Reduced to Idiocy" the Omniversal Tribune Erased 238.
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/2566/m16hl3.th.jpg
Merlin says about Cap. Britain, "I sent you to a lesser menace (Jaspers 238) and you were Killed"



"Merlin says, "You cannot fail, this version of Japers is too powerful, too dangerous"
http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/1219/m17iu3.th.jpg
They had to destroy the entire 238 Universe in order to kill 238 Jaspers, but 616 Jaspers is "NOT so easily contained, and if he's not stopped, the OMNI-VERSE will fall into Chaos, and a NEW GOD shall play dice with Matter"


Mad Jim jaspers in a Universe he CREATED
http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/7223/m18gy5.th.jpg

http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/2392/m19zi6.th.jpg


And he's JUST a PIECE in Merlin's Chess Board, LOL...



continues in the next post...

Mr Master
continues...


Here in PLAIN ENGLISH:


Roma says, "The Game's disintegrating, but the MULTI-VERSE DEPENDS upon the GAME"
http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/1124/m20uy7.th.jpg
Roma thinks they've lost the 616 Multi-verse, but actually Merlin knew Jaspers would lose to the Fury, so he fakes his death and allows Roma to finish the rest.



Roma says, "It's over, the Pieces must be gathered up" (Captain Britain, Saturnyne and Captain UK)
http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/1679/r17po5.th.jpg
http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/8061/r18qc4.th.jpg
Again, what happens on Merlin and Roma's Chess board, happens in Reality.


It is quite possible that Roma was manipulating the CHAOS WAVE all along, just to see how the heroes would remedy the situation.

Heck, Merlin was a born trickster, and he loved the drama, just witness how he manipulated the whole JASPER'S event, and ol' JIM was an Omni-versal threat.

I guess it doesn't matter when you can RE-WRITE ALL of Marvel in the end.


"Merlin taught you that REALITY is a Grand Game of Chess"
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/6338/rpf7.th.jpg




EVEN during the HOM, Captain Britain wasn't sure if Roma was behind it all, given the history of her Father and Mentor:

"Is this YOUR doing Roma, are you PLAYING Another of your wretched GAMES"
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/1695/r2qt9.th.jpg

Mr Master
Continues..



And NEVER doubt that Jim Jaspers WAS an OMNIVERSAL THREAT:


Roma says, "the terror that threatened the Omni-verse is destroyed"
http://img316.imageshack.us/img316/9749/r19nw6.th.jpg
Roma gives Captain Britain, Captain UK and Saturnyne the credit



AND


When Merlin retires his title, it's Roma that takes over:


Now that Merlin is supposedly dead, Roma becomes the Omni-versal Guardian
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/2638/r20ei9.th.jpg

"My hand guides the Omni-verse Now, Unlike my Father, I have no desire to shape the destiny of men"

Doc Potato
Originally posted by darthgoober
I hate to be the one to point this out, but DC and Marvel don't share an omniverse. I know it doesn't really make sense because the omniverse is supposed to be EVERYTHING, but the companies are completely separate in and of themselves. Otherwise, the Chaos Wave(which was stated to be an omniversal threat) would have been a threat to DC also. Think about it, if the companies shared an omniverse, that would mean that the Chaos Wave(which was an omniversal threat) would have been beyond the power of TOAA to stop. Think of it like this, if Marvel had decided to shut down and close the company, and their method of doing this was to leave the Chaos Wave unchecked and have it destroy the entire omniverse on-panel, would that mean that DC would have to shut down too since all of their characters were destroyed?

By the same token, since Pre Recton Beyonder was stated to be everything outside of Marvel's multiverse, that would mean that he was composed of everything in DC also(including the Source). So for events like The Secret Wars & Secret Wars 2, DC shouldn't have been able to produce any of their own books, because all of the beings in DC were messing around in Marvel.

So the companies each have their own omniverse, independent of one each other, until they acknowledge that they will abide by the others decisions regardin the omniverse.
Ummm... riiiight.. which of course explains why JLA/ Avengers is now canon!

darthgoober
Originally posted by Doc Potato
Ummm... riiiight.. which of course explains why JLA/ Avengers is now canon!
It's never explained as to WHY that was able to take place. I guess it was an omniversal crossover.

Horrificus
ok.

Horrificus
Hey everybody. Thanks for the feedback.

I am sorry for not instantly agreeing with all the opinions. I am trying to make sure we put tgether something concrete.

For right now, I need to know a few things:

1. If DC is a stand alone Universe, or if they are a part of a Multiverse.

2. If there have been any storylines that involve the Omniverse in either DC or Marvel Multiverse comics. If they have both established and effected the Omniverse, we may have to create an Omniverse for each comic Multiverse. Otherwise, they can exists in the same one for now. (See the Map I attached)

3. Also, even though characters have claimed to have power over the Omniverse, or the term "Omniverse" has been used in comics, for the sake of this thread, I am debating on using anything unless there are feats associated with it. Lots of statements have been made in comments, either incorrectly, writer error, or out of undue arrogance.

I have attached an Omniversal Map that we can use temporarily, in case there are changes for us to make. This map contains the Omniverse, and focuses on Outer Space for now.
Universe
Multiverse
Omniverse

Next, I will throw something together that shows the nature of Inner Space. Only for the Universe, Marvel 616 right now, until we get more information on DC.
It will show Pocket Dimensions, Mystic Realms, "Microverses" and other Inner Space dwellings.
Alternate Timelines will be tackled in the future.
Tell me what you guys think.

leonidas
those cap brit scans are cool, mm. wink

marvel certainly DOES have an omniverse, but the term is confusing BECAUSE it's meant different things.

if you look at each company as wholes, i guess each would be an omniverse (even though it's not been mentioned in dc, i use the term as an umbrella). initially i think each was supposed to be a megaverse, with the omniverse connecting the 2 and any other comic group.

and trying to include the 'real' world in with any comic world, regardless of size, is . . . What the f**k?

2 problems that have been brought up are: the canonical jla/avengers xover, and the apparent retcon of the amalgam brothers. the scan below certainly shows lt (and presumably spectre) working together and BOTH being above the brothers whom it seems were set by lt and spectre to create the marvel and dc universes that we currently know.

holy continuity confusion, batman!! wacko

http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/9986/brothersls7.jpg

Galan777
whats that scan from?

Thanos_THOTU
The amalgam brother's retcon ...

Galan777
DC v.s. Marvel #1 correct?

manorastroman
mr master, none of those scans indicate multiple multiverses within marvel. which leads me to believe omniverse is cap britain only...has it actually been mentioned outside of excalibur titles?

as far as i know, multiverse is still the sum of marvel.

and regardless of what crusty old cap britain characters say, omniverse would be marvel, dc, image, dark horse, as well as every fiction (film, television, literature, or otherwise) and the real world.

omni.

darthgoober
Originally posted by manorastroman
mr master, none of those scans indicate multiple multiverses within marvel. which leads me to believe omniverse is cap britain only...has it actually been mentioned outside of excalibur titles?

as far as i know, multiverse is still the sum of marvel.

and regardless of what crusty old cap britain characters say, omniverse would be marvel, dc, image, dark horse, as well as every fiction (film, television, literature, or otherwise) and the real world.

omni.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok, I'm going to straiten this whole thing out right now.

Let's say for a minute that the omniverse actually is EVERYTHING. Meaning all comic companies, all works of fiction, AND the "real" world we live in. Ok, check out this little thing I just wrote....

Once upon a time, there was this crazy wizard who hated everyone, so he decided to kill them all. He spent years gather magical energies and preparing one huge spell to take them all out. He then unleashed the spell and destroyed the ENTIRE omniverse(the ACTUAL omniverse to, the sum of EVERYTHING, all comics, fictions, and everything else).

THE END


Wow, we're still here. That's odd, cause we're supposedly apart of the same omniverse. And why haven't Marvel and DC shut down? I destroyed all their characters just now. Could it be because even though my omniverse was supposed to include EVERYTHING, it was actually separate from from the omniverse's present in comics, and the real world, even though the concept goes against the strict definition of the word omniverse?

Hmm... Interesting.

manorastroman
actually it's not interesting at all.

if we are to assume potential interaction on an omniversal level, then what you just wrote has probably been cancelled out a million times by some fellow who wrote "and then god declared there would be no wizard to end existance." on a lark fifty years ago.

Thanos_THOTU

Galan777

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by Galan777
But the Amalgam bros. were featured in DC/Marvel #1 right?
1, 2, 3 and 4.

They stand for the prime feats of all fictions ever created combinded.
Omniverse wasent just Marvel and DC when the series begun.

Here's the bio.


If this wasent retconed ... Just imagion ...

Galan777
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
1, 2, 3 and 4. Cool!

-thanks wink

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by Galan777
Cool!

-thanks wink
Edited the replay ...

Mr Master
Originally posted by manorastroman
mr master, none of those scans indicate multiple multiverses within marvel.

I remember you,

I've debated with you before,

your not the type I expect to understand the clear and conclusive evidence.



Originally posted by manorastroman
which leads me to believe omniverse is cap britain only...has it actually been mentioned outside of excalibur titles?

Yes it has.


X-Men:

Opal Luna Saturnyne, became the OMNIVERSAL Guardian for a short time.

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7519/roma20kd.th.jpg



Fantastic Four:

Nebula disguised as Susan Richards, takes the Ultimate Nullifier and proclaims rulership over the OMNI-VERSE

http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/5307/o1il3.th.jpg


Originally posted by manorastroman
as far as i know, multiverse is still the sum of marvel.

yes,

we just noticed how much you know.


Originally posted by manorastroman
and regardless of what crusty old cap britain characters say, omniverse would be marvel, dc, image, dark horse, as well as every fiction (film, television, literature, or otherwise) and the real world.

Dude,

stick to hating, and leave the debating to us.

darthgoober
Originally posted by manorastroman
actually it's not interesting at all.

if we are to assume potential interaction on an omniversal level, then what you just wrote has probably been cancelled out a million times by some fellow who wrote "and then god declared there would be no wizard to end existance." on a lark fifty years ago.
It doesn't matter. What I wrote CAN'T be cancelled out, because I put down that the omniverse was destroyed successfully. So the only possible explanation is that the omniverse in my story is seperate from any other omniverse in existence.

What we're talking about isn't really that big of a stretch. I mean, we're talking about comic books! Most things that happen in comics are impossible, but they still apply in the comics. So what's the big deal about having more than 1 omniverse, when it's concerning two seperate companies?

manorastroman
thanks for the saturnyne scan, that's all i wanted to know.

except for in the nebula scan, that works against your argument. you know damn well the ultimate nullifier wasn't omniversal, at least not in any conventional definition of omniversal. it's arguable that it was even multiversal, or if it was just multi-universal.

and none of those scans are conclusive. just so you know, conclusive would mean no room for interpretation.

the big deal is the word "omni".

leonidas
Originally posted by darthgoober
It doesn't matter. What I wrote CAN'T be cancelled out, because I put down that the omniverse was destroyed successfully. So the only possible explanation is that the omniverse in my story is seperate from any other omniverse in existence.

What we're talking about isn't really that big of a stretch. I mean, we're talking about comic books! Most things that happen in comics are impossible, but they still apply in the comics. So what's the big deal about having more than 1 omniverse, when it's concerning two seperate companies?

has the omniverse been obliterated in a marvel comic or dc comic . . .? no? then how do you KNOW if we wiped out the omniverse in comics it WOULDN'T wipe out OUR 'real' world . . .?













































shifty

leonidas
Originally posted by Galan777
But the Amalgam bros. were featured in DC/Marvel #1 right?

hey g,

that scan is actually from new adventures of the xmen #12. the series is not supposed to be in continuity, but the rpesence of the lt in that issue made what happened apparently canon. for those interested: that's ALSO the issue where phoenix was said to have had a part in galactus's birth. #12 showed the end of the old universe and birth of the current one . . . whistle

ps--all's i'm saying with the scan and xovers there must be something even BIGGER than the omniverse, something that truly does engulf BOTH companies' respective worlds . . .

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by leonidas
hey g,

that scan is actually from new adventures of the xmen #12. the series is not supposed to be in continuity, but the rpesence of the lt in that issue made what happened apparently canon. for those interested: that's ALSO the issue where phoenix was said to have had a part in galactus's birth. #12 showed the end of the old universe and birth of the current one . . . whistle
Correct ... (Nice to see that at least someone have done his homework)
In the the 4th issue mini-series the Brother's did nothing but fight.

Mr Master
Originally posted by leonidas
those cap brit scans are cool, mm. wink

cool


They weren't appreciated by some clown.

darthgoober
Originally posted by leonidas
has the omniverse been obliterated in a marvel comic or dc comic . . .? no? then how do you KNOW if we wiped out the omniverse in comics it WOULDN'T wipe out OUR 'real' world . . .?













































shifty
Hey, he said ALL works of fiction. Well what I wrote was fiction, so it should have had effect.

Originally posted by leonidas
ps--all's i'm saying with the scan and xovers there must be something even BIGGER than the omniverse, something that truly does engulf BOTH companies' respective worlds . . .
Yes. The comic book industry.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Horrificus
1. If DC is a stand alone Universe, or if they are a part of a Multiverse.

Recent events brought up by Juntai and Leonidas point towards DC having a Multi-verse (that is, if those Comic titles are canon) cause there seems to be a power struggle between certain Writers and Editors of DC.

But for argument's sake, let's just say DC has a Multi-verse.


Now,

I'll have to be shown Proof of DC ever mentioning an Omni-verse, I already Prooved conclusively that Marvel has it's OWN Omni-verse.



Originally posted by Horrificus
2. If there have been any storylines that involve the Omniverse in either DC or Marvel Multiverse comics.

hum

Are you serious?


I just posted like a gazillion scans of Marvel's OMNI-VERSE in action.



Originally posted by Horrificus
If they have both established and effected the Omniverse,

Again,

I just posted like a gazillion scans of Marvel's OMNI-VERSE in action.


Originally posted by Horrificus
we may have to create an Omniverse for each comic Multiverse.

Count me out of this one, I'm NOT going to make up anything.

Marvel has it's OWN OMNI-VERSE!


Originally posted by Horrificus
Otherwise, they can exists in the same one for now. (See the Map I attached)


That Map is bogus and inconsequential.

Marvel has it's OWN OMNI-VERSE!

And it has NOTHING to do with DC.


Originally posted by Horrificus
3. Also, even though characters have claimed to have power over the Omniverse, or the term "Omniverse" has been used in comics, for the sake of this thread, I am debating on using anything unless there are feats associated with it.

I just posted like a gazillion scans of Marvel's OMNI-VERSE in action.


Merlin, with a bunch of MULTI-VERSES at his COMMAND!



Originally posted by Horrificus
I have attached an Omniversal Map that we can use temporarily, in case there are changes for us to make. This map contains the Omniverse, and focuses on Outer Space for now.
Universe
Multiverse
Omniverse

This Map is rubbish,

Marvel has it's OWN OMNI-VERSE!

And it has NOTHING to do with DC.



Originally posted by Horrificus
Next, I will throw something together that shows the nature of Inner Space. Only for the Universe, Marvel 616 right now, until we get more information on DC.

It will show Pocket Dimensions, Mystic Realms, "Microverses" and other Inner Space dwellings.

Tell me what you guys think.

I'll tell ya,


"Microverses"?


What the heck is that?


The ONE and ONLY Micro-verse was CREATED by the MAKERS, period.


The MAKERS took a UNIVERSE and RE-CREATED it,

the Micro-verse (which they ALSO Created) is PART of this Universe.



"They have taken the FABRIC of the COSMOS, and WOVEN it ANEW"
http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/6002/m2sr6.th.jpg

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/9350/m3qd4.th.jpg


The MAKERS brought SOULS from all the UNIVERSES of the MUTLI-VERSE into this UNIVERSE they RE-CREATED, to give it meaning.
http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/6442/m4wt8.th.jpg


More proof they RESHAPED a UNIVERSE, into their OWN, and a section of that Universe was the ONE and ONLY MICRO-VERSE, which they also created
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/2251/ma6yt6.th.jpg


"Why can't we look on them? ... Why can't we see the MAKERS?"
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/7746/m5oi5.th.jpg


"They REAMDE the STARS, the PLANETS, the GALAXIES"
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8326/m6yk4.th.jpg
"All I want for now, is to see them"



He gets his wish:


He's allowed to see ONE of the MAKERS:

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/9893/m07gd2.th.jpghttp://img471.imageshack.us/img471/4824/m08ou2.th.jpg

darthgoober
Originally posted by Mr Master
Recent events brought up by Juntai and Leonidas point towards DC having a Multi-verse (that is, if those Comic titles are canon) cause there seems to be a power struggle between certain Writers and Editors of DC.

But for argument's sake, let's just say DC has a Multi-verse.


Now,

I'll have to be shown Proof of DC ever mentioning an Omni-verse, I already Prooved conclusively that Marvel has it's OWN Omni-verse.





I normally agree with you on stuff like this(like now I agree about the separate omniverse's), but I can see the logic of acknowledging the omniverse of DC. An omniverse means everything, right? So DC's omniverse would consist of everything in DC. It would be the same for any independent companies as well. The other omniverse's may not be as large as Marvel's, but they would still be the sum of everything within their respective companies, whether it was a universe, mutiverse, or megaverse. Basically, the omniverse would be anything that they publish, and would be limited only by their own desire of scale.

Thanos_THOTU
Can't you just simply prove that Omniverse = Multiverse?
Because from what I've seen, the Omniverse is nothing but a realm from where you control the Multi-verse.

Mr Master
Originally posted by manorastroman
thanks for the saturnyne scan, that's all i wanted to know.

Your welcome.


Originally posted by manorastroman
except for in the nebula scan, that works against your argument. you know damn well the ultimate nullifier wasn't omniversal, at least not in any conventional definition of omniversal.

You asked if the Omni-verse was MENTIONED in OTHER titles besides Captain Britain,

I obliged,

Now you give me excuses cloaked by "logic?"....



Originally posted by manorastroman
it's arguable that it was even multiversal,

I think not.

It has been conclusively proven that the UN erased and remade the Multi-verse during the Abraxas arc.



Originally posted by manorastroman
or if it was just multi-universal.

This oughta have the Kree Empire and Darkseid's Techno Chiefs scratching their heads for years to come.



Originally posted by manorastroman
and none of those scans are conclusive. just so you know, conclusive would mean no room for interpretation.

Only a simpleton would have difficulty interpreting the obvious.


Originally posted by manorastroman
the big deal is the word "omni".

Yes,

In Marvel if you add "verse" to that you get Omni-verse,

which simply means ALL the Multi-verses in Marvel.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Can't you just simply prove that Omniverse = Multiverse?
Because from what I've seen, the Omniverse is nothing but a realm from where you control the Multi-verse.

Really,


where have you seen this?

Mr Master
Originally posted by darthgoober
I normally agree with you on stuff like this(like now I agree about the separate omniverse's), but I can see the logic of acknowledging the omniverse of DC. An omniverse means everything, right? So DC's omniverse would consist of everything in DC. It would be the same for any independent companies as well. The other omniverse's may not be as large as Marvel's, but they would still be the sum of everything within their respective companies, whether it was a universe, mutiverse, or megaverse. Basically, the omniverse would be anything that they publish, and would be limited only by their own desire of scale.

Makes sense,


but it's deceptive to say Omni-verse for DC, if they only have a Multi-verse.

Omni-verse, specifically means (in Marvel) an Infinite number of Multi-verses, or all the Multi-verses in Marvel.


If Multi-verse means, all the Universes in a Multi-verse, how does the term Omni-verse come into paly then?

It would read like this in DC:

Multi-verse = all the Universes in DC

Omni-verse = all the Universes in DC

That's a bit redundant wouldn't you say?

Horrificus
Originally posted by manorastroman
mr master, none of those scans indicate multiple multiverses within marvel. which leads me to believe omniverse is cap britain only...has it actually been mentioned outside of excalibur titles?

as far as i know, multiverse is still the sum of marvel.

and regardless of what crusty old cap britain characters say, omniverse would be marvel, dc, image, dark horse, as well as every fiction (film, television, literature, or otherwise) and the real world.

omni.
Ya see, that's what I think too.
Characters mentioning the terms "Multiverse" and "Omniverse" just isn't good enough.
Unless a Multiverse or Omnierse is shown to be effected, or unless action is occurring on a multiversal or omniversal level, why should it be considered as fact?
Maybe in the mythos of Excalibur, there is a Universe or even a Multiverse that is NAMED the Omniverse, but it is not the true Omniverse that the Marvel Universe floats in.

inamilist
ummmmm

what are we inventing now?

Horrificus
Mr. Master... I'm not really sure why you are getting so angry and negative. But, I do know it should stop.
You call the map "rubbish" for some reason, yet it is totally correct. Except, POSSIBLY for the existence of the DC Multiverse in he same Omniverse as the Marvel Multiverse.
And, if it makes you happy, and you do more than show weak evidences, such as Nebula stating she will be the most powerful being in the Omniverse, I would be more than happy to pluck the DC Multiverse out of there!

I am not going to base the structure of all time and space on you showing me scans like that. The books can say whatever they want, but they may be wrong. The books constantly negate eachother.

While you are trying to force your personal view of what has happened on panel, I am trying to come up with a way to view EVERYTHING, EVERYWHERE.

Now, please, stop Scan-Spamming, and giving your interpretations of the frames. And, also stop demeaning the input from other forum members.
I created this thread as a place to "Brainstorm" the situation, and get some ideas.
Not trounce everybody that is not on the same page as you.
As I tried to get through to you, just because a character states something, does not mean we blindly build a mythos around it.
Nebula is NOT the most powerful being in the Omniverse with the UN.
That is silly.
Out of an Infinite number of Multiverses, filled with an Infinite number of Universes, Nebula with the UN is the most powerful being? Do you hear how stupid that sounds?
Do you really want to back that statement?
Read the books.
Enjoy the books.
Use common sense when debating.

Horrificus
And, just so you know, the model and terms I have used for the map are all being used in the field right now. I made nothing up.

All I have done, is tried to use the model to help give trackable structure to the Comic Book Realms.

If you all decide to drop DC in a separate Omniverse, go for it.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Horrificus
Ya see, that's what I think too.

If you only knew who your agreeing with. laughing



Originally posted by Horrificus
Characters mentioning the terms "Multiverse" and "Omniverse" just isn't good enough.
Unless a Multiverse or Omnierse is shown to be effected, or unless action is occurring on a multiversal or omniversal level, why should it be considered as fact?

I don't wanna say it, but you have to either be on drugs, or you have serious issues.

I'm sorry but you made me waste my time.


I just posted a plethora of SCANS involving the MULTI-VERSE that houses the 616 Universe, which was a CHESS BOARD in Merlin's Realm.


It was ARTISTICALLY DEPICTED, ON PANEL,

YES, YES ACTION!!!!



Originally posted by Horrificus
Maybe in the mythos of Excalibur, there is a Universe or even a Multiverse that is NAMED the Omniverse, but it is not the true Omniverse that the Marvel Universe floats in.


No,

maybe in the Mythos of your head, how about that.


What a nincompoop.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Horrificus
Mr. Master... I'm not really sure why you are getting so angry and negative. But, I do know it should stop.
You call the map "rubbish" for some reason, yet it is totally correct. Except, POSSIBLY for the existence of the DC Multiverse in he same Omniverse as the Marvel Multiverse.
And, if it makes you happy, and you do more than show weak evidences, such as Nebula stating she will be the most powerful being in the Omniverse, I would be more than happy to pluck the DC Multiverse out of there!

sign23



Originally posted by Horrificus
I am not going to base the structure of all time and space on you showing me scans like that. The books can say whatever they want, but they may be wrong. The books constantly negate eachother.

Right, the books are wrong, annnnnd....your right. hysterical2


Are you for real?



Originally posted by Horrificus
While you are trying to force your personal view of what has happened on panel, I am trying to come up with a way to view EVERYTHING, EVERYWHERE.

You haven't come up with JACK!

All you've done is blahblah


with absolutely NO PROOF of ANYTHING!!!



Originally posted by Horrificus
Now, please, stop Scan-Spamming, and giving your interpretations of the frames.

It's called ON PANEL PROOF, charlie.


Yes, I know, we should stick to your soundless ideas and theories without a shred of evidence.


Originally posted by Horrificus
And, also stop demeaning the input from other forum members.

It was one member that insulted my ON PANEL PROOF FIRST.


Do you just like, love to see your own words on the screen and completely ignore and dismiss everything else that thrashes your conjured fantasies into the ground? (WITH ON PANEL PROOF)


Originally posted by Horrificus
I created this thread as a place to "Brainstorm" the situation, and get some ideas.

What ideas?

A bunch of gibberish is all I see coming from you my child.

AND even your gibberish is baseless. laughing out loud

Originally posted by Horrificus
Not trounce everybody that is not on the same page as you.

I've done no such thing,

but your a close minded individual, and somebody had to say it.



Originally posted by Horrificus
As I tried to get through to you, just because a character states something, does not mean we blindly build a mythos around it.

"statements"


If you stop licking yourself for like 5 minutes, you might take the time to READ the ON PANEL PROOF I posted, of the MULTI_VERSE being used like child's play by Roma and Merlin, (and YES, that was the MULTI-VERSE that INCLUDES the 616 UNIVERSE) with a BUNCH of OTHER MULTI-VERSES floating around.


What more OMNIVERSAL you want my dear boy?


Originally posted by Horrificus
Nebula is NOT the most powerful being in the Omniverse with the UN.
That is silly.
Out of an Infinite number of Multiverses, filled with an Infinite number of Universes, Nebula with the UN is the most powerful being? Do you hear how stupid that sounds?

AGAIN,

for ignoring POSTS, all you saw was that,

the baboon who said,

"are there other issues besides Captain Britain that MENTION the OMNI-VERSE?"


I replied YES, and showed him WHERE it has been MENTIONED.


Originally posted by Horrificus
Do you really want to back that statement?
Read the books.
Enjoy the books.
Use common sense when debating.

stfu2

leonidas
well, THIS is going well . . .

doh

for the record, i think it pretty clear there IS an omniverse in marvel that would -- i would imagine -- include every issue of every book ever put out by the marvel company. dc may well have something similar -- a megaverse for lack of a term -- but it hasn't really been acknowledged in a book -- least not that i'm aware of.

in any event, the 2 companies have had contact, so whatever contains each company, is apparently itself contained by something larger that encompasses both. and no, jokes aside, it is assinine to try and include our 'real' world in within teh bounds of these fictional creations . . . criminy . . .

Horrificus
MM, just a day ago, you were telling people to disregard something that was printed on panel, because you said it was a "Typo".
You throwing scans on here, and giving us your opinion of them, means nothing to me.
And, do you really believe that for every scan you show that says one thing, there aren't a ton of scans from another book stating something different?
That is just stupid.
I even invited you to this thread to get your ideas. And, you still showed up with negative intentions.
And, to be honest, I think you are stupid. I believe, as do others in here, that you are just an arrogant child, with lots of scans, and lots of time.
I have no idea what you are even arguing about anymore. Do you?
Telling people they have "issues" because they disagreed with you peacefully? If that isn't a sign of "issues", I don't know what is.
Calling people names, and making fun of people that are not on-board with your thoughts.
But, I guess you need to empower yourself somewhere, and form what I have seen, this is probably the only place in your life where that happens.
Why don't you run along now, and impress some other forum members with your scans, and the ability to write the same opinions over and over.
Again, I still have no idea what your problem is, and why you started getting nasty. All I tried to do, was give a visual representation of what has been described in the Comic Books.
I don't even care what was done in an Excalibur book, with Roma, Merlin, or anybody else. All I cared about, was showing the Realms.
You are absolutely insane.

If you are a child, I feel bad for your parents. If you are an adult, you have no business being in here around kids.

bigbran
Originally posted by leonidas
hey g,

that scan is actually from new adventures of the xmen #12. the series is not supposed to be in continuity, but the rpesence of the lt in that issue made what happened apparently canon. for those interested: that's ALSO the issue where phoenix was said to have had a part in galactus's birth. #12 showed the end of the old universe and birth of the current one . . . whistle

ps--all's i'm saying with the scan and xovers there must be something even BIGGER than the omniverse, something that truly does engulf BOTH companies' respective worlds . . . So every book with LT is canon?
LT needing help to beat Galactus is canon?
Sure it happened in the multiverse, or whatever, but that doesn't mean it applies to 616.

Anyway, Marvel vs DC isn't canon... if it is then that means that Wolverine beat Lobo. eek!
And these brothers were taken from that non canon crossover, so that story shouldn't apply as canon.


Oh ya, in Vertigo, Micheal hit Lucifer with an omniversal big bang. It didn't affect Marvel.

Horrificus
Originally posted by bigbran
So every book with LT is canon?
LT needing help to beat Galactus is canon?
Sure it happened in the multiverse, or whatever, but that doesn't mean it applies to 616.

Anyway, Marvel vs DC isn't canon... if it is then that means that Wolverine beat Lobo. eek!
And these brothers were taken from that non canon crossover, so that story shouldn't apply as canon.


Oh ya, in Vertigo, Micheal hit Lucifer with an omniversal big bang. It didn't affect Marvel.

If that's true, then that is the end of the debate.

The Official DC Core Universe is a part of it's own Omniverse. Which, obviously means that DC Comics Does use an Omniverse definition.

Thanks Bran.

We are looking at a Bi-Omniversal Model.

Horrificus
Marvel Omniversal Map

Horrificus
DC Omniversal Map

leonidas
Originally posted by bigbran
So every book with LT is canon?
LT needing help to beat Galactus is canon?
Sure it happened in the multiverse, or whatever, but that doesn't mean it applies to 616.

Anyway, Marvel vs DC isn't canon... if it is then that means that Wolverine beat Lobo. eek!
And these brothers were taken from that non canon crossover, so that story shouldn't apply as canon.


Oh ya, in Vertigo, Micheal hit Lucifer with an omniversal big bang. It didn't affect Marvel.

there is ONE lt, so yeah, whatever he has his hand in actually happened -- in regards to him at least. why do you think there was the hullabaloo about the way he handled korvac?

and who said anything about marvel vs dc being canon . . .? confused the brothers were used elsewhere and at one time the vs WAS considered (loosely) to be canon.

bigbran
Originally posted by leonidas
there is ONE lt, so yeah, whatever he has his hand in actually happened -- in regards to him at least. why do you think there was the hullabaloo about the way he handled korvac?

and who said anything about marvel vs dc being canon . . .? confused the brothers were used elsewhere and at one time the vs WAS considered (loosely) to be canon. No I mean it doesn't apply to 616.
Which means it isn't canon to anyone else, other than LT, and that universe.

Well, I'm saying this because the brothers in canon were never that high at all. It was only in the crossover that they were portrayed as gods.
Thus making them irrelevent.
In a crossover (non canon) Superman could be the high being, but in normal DC, he isn't.
Thus making the crossover non useable.
You get my point?

leonidas
okay . . . confused

anyway, we're off topic. wink

bigbran
Originally posted by leonidas
okay . . . confused

anyway, we're off topic. wink Curses!

Is there really any more room for this omniverse discussion?

Mr Master
Originally posted by leonidas
there is ONE lt, so yeah, whatever he has his hand in actually happened -- in regards to him at least. why do you think there was the hullabaloo about the way he handled korvac?

Ok, atleast there's some legitimate debate going on in this catastrophy of a thread.


Actually TRUE Debaters,

That one arc involving LT, (Last Planet Standing) is Officially Non-Canon/Not in continuity in every way according to Marvel.


The Korvac event is Canon.


The Korvac issue simply prooves how silly What if's are though they're Canon.

LT's Ultimate Judgement back in 1982 was to create a Super Nova (a feat just below the Human Torches capability, yes, Johnny Storm friends laughing out loud )

And yet, LT CAN detach and contain an Entire Universe from the rest of the Multi-verse. dontgetit


They atleast had the decency to try and make Mistress Death the culprit behind the scenes, somehow Mistress Death protected Korvac from LT's super nova attack.

Horrificus
Thanks for the Imput Mr. Master!
Always Positive, always a Pleasure!

Anyway...

Besides LT, what other characters do we have in Authority over our Multiverse?

I know Mr. "Friendly" talks about Merlin and Roma working the Omniversal situation, but who is working on a Multiversal level?

Mr Master
Originally posted by Horrificus
Thanks for the Imput Mr. Master!

Your welcome.


Originally posted by Horrificus
Always Positive,

smile


Originally posted by Horrificus
always a Pleasure!

That's what my X always said.


Originally posted by Horrificus
Besides LT, what other characters do we have in Authority over our Multiverse?

I know Mr. "Friendly" talks about Merlin and Roma working the Omniversal situation, but who is working on a Multiversal level?

Well, right now (in no particular order)


Roma is the Multiversal Guardian.


The Infinites are the maintainance crew of the Multi-verse.


The Makers teleported Souls from every Universe in the Multi-verse, and placed them in the Universe they remade, which houses the Micro-verse.


Abraxas was killing every Alternate Reed Richards in the Multi-verse simultaneously.


Post Retcon Molecule Man nearly destroyed the Multi-verse.


Post Retcon Beyonder, though not as powerful as Molecule Man, is eesential to the Multi-verse, if his essence dies, "havoc unthinkable would be wrecked across Multiversal Cosmography" (that's a direct quote from the issue)


Atleza is the Multiversal Anchor, she juggles Multi-Eternity like you and I would blow soap bubbles in the air.


Oblivion, in his greatest form, swallows Multi-verses that collapse, are destroyed, nullified, and displaced by a weakened Anchor



That's about the whole gang, excluding artifacts or weapons.

manorastroman
mister, are you really that confused at the difference between multiversal and multi-universal?

multiverse=hundreds and thousands of universes
multiuniversal= five, ten, fifty, etc. universes.

leonidas
Originally posted by Mr Master
Atleza is the Multiversal Anchor, she juggles Multi-Eternity like you and I would blow soap bubbles in the air.


Oblivion, in his greatest form, swallows Multi-verses that collapse, are destroyed, nullified, and displaced by a weakened Anchor

i'm curious about these 2. how do you know atleza anchors the multiverse? was multiverse said somewhere? and where did you see oblivion devouring multiverses? oblivion is kinda cool, i'd not mind seeing that. wink

Horrificus
Processing...

Mr Master
Originally posted by leonidas
i'm curious about these 2. how do you know atleza anchors the multiverse? was multiverse said somewhere? and where did you see oblivion devouring multiverses? oblivion is kinda cool, i'd not mind seeing that. wink

Wut up Leon,


Thanos absorbed the Multi-verse that houses the 616 Universe.

Atleza was the Anchor of the Actuality he absorbed Thanos said.


I'm not going to drain your eyes again with the explanation plus scans that conclusively prove Thanos Absorbed a Multi-verse... you seen it a bunch of times I'm sure, it's even with in the first few pages of this thread.


But here is Thanos saying Atleza Anchors this Actuality (the Actuality he absorbed)


(Warlock, Gamora, Atleza) Death, Oblivion and ALL the Cosmic Anchors survived, because their Realms are ALL beyond Space and Time

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9448/allhecould5ip7.th.jpg

"You & Gamora were OUTSIDE this Reality, tending Atleza, this Actuality's Cosmic Anchor"



This portion of my earlier post is summarized but might fit the bill:

Thanos (Starlin) explaining the Cosmology:


See those little Purple Balls, thats where Atleza is (the Cosmic Anchor of the "616" Multi-verse)...

and every little Purple Ball is the Domain of an Anchor of a Multi-verse ...

Each Domain is Outside the Multiverse...Untouched by Space or Time....

The much bigger Blue Balls represent EACH a Multi-verse, and the SUM of the Blue Balls is the Omni-verse.

http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/8021/unilook17qj.th.jpg

http://img280.imageshack.us/img280/9715/unilook21qc.th.jpg

Anything Outside the Blue Balls is Untouched by Space & Time,
which Multi-Eternity/Infinity encompass.

See how the Blue Balls (Multi-verses) are separate from each other, and how the little Purple Balls (the Anchor's domain) are separated from the Blue Balls.

This is why Atleza, Gamora and Warlock were untouched, they were there, in A little Purple Ball, (the Anchors domain, Outside it's respective Multi-verse)




This is the Oblivion bit:

An INFINITE number of MULTI-VERSES are spiralling upward, while below lies Oblivion, (the ultimate Abstract in terms of everlasting), swallowing Multi-verses that collapse, are nullified, have a weakened Anchor (like Atleza) ect...

http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/7376/adamgoesbtwnuniverses26zw.th.jpg




If this isn't filling enough, in the earlier pages I give a meticulous explanation with proof, of why it was a Multi-verse Thanos absorbed, even though it was termed "Universe"...

manorastroman
there's no reason to think those blue balls are anything other than universes. none at all. you have warlock saying "my all" and thanos saying "actuality.

neither of those point to those being multiverses.

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by manorastroman
there's no reason to think those blue balls are anything other than universes. none at all. you have warlock saying "my all" and thanos saying "actuality.

neither of those point to those being multiverses.
Indeed, <I'm with this guy.>

DDurand

Mr Master
Originally posted by manorastroman
there's no reason to think those blue balls are anything other than universes. none at all. you have warlock saying "my all" and thanos saying "actuality.

neither of those point to those being multiverses.

I wasn't replying to you mano, I was replying to Leon.


Here's the tale of the tape:


If you take a few minutes to read, perhaps it'll sink in:




The Omniversal Architecture

When Warlock first exited the Multi-verse, he entered a place called the Cosmic Vortex.
http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/3198/adamgoesbtwnuniverses15yh.th.jpg


In it, an INFINITE number of MULTI-VERSES are spiralling upward, while below lies Oblivion, (the ultimate Abstract in terms of everlasting), swallowing Multi-verses that collapse, are nullified, have a weakened Anchor (like Atleza) ect...

http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/7376/adamgoesbtwnuniverses26zw.th.jpg


These are MULTI-VERSES!


When I realized that Thanos DID in fact, Absorb MORE than just a UNIVERSE, that he actually absorbed ALL he could (which is the MULTI-VERSE)

Here Thanos ABSORBS LT, ETERNITY and INFINITY

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/4876/teb9kg7.th.jpg



Thanos ABSORBED ETERNITY and INFINITY and there is still Space and star stuff behind him

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/741/t2gw1oa6.th.jpg
This is not a designed attack, he's saying it himself "it's Out of Control"

Like a raging drunk, who's not selective in a brawl, anything in the way goes, and with that KIND of Power, that means everything goes. (like it did)




I felt I had to add this to the equation:


When a UNIVERSE is ERASED or ABSORBED, it's ETERNITY that DISAPPEARS:

The Ultimate Nullifier ERASING a UNIVERSE:

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/5489/kpz4.th.jpg

Realize it's ETERNITY that's being ERASED.



And AGAIN, now a MULTI-VERSE is ERASED by the Ultimate Nullifier:

http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/6069/1unisusedbyreedtodestroyabraxa.th.jpg

http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/932/2undestroysmultieternityinfini.th.jpg

Realize it's ETERNITY (Multi-Eternity) that's being ERASED.




Continues in the next post...

Mr Master
Continues...



Let us proceed:




Here it continues,

(REMEMBER, NOW this is AFTER he ABSORBED, LT, Eternity & Infinity)

Watch, and Read



"For IF this BAND (the Living Tribunal, ETERNITY/INFINITY) Could Defy Me...might not OTHERS* be equally Foolish?"
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/4746/t6bi7.th.jpg
"Could I ALLOW ANY to question my divine AUTHORITY?"



"NO....So I CONTINUED to Absorb ALL that MIGHT THREATEN my REIGN...Until....
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/2830/t7fq0.th.jpg


See...He's absorbing MORE SPACE now, WHERE is this SPACE coming from if he already absorbed ALL of Space and Time?

WHERE!!!


I'll answer that,


It has to be coming from the Multi-verse, there is no other way to look at it.
*(That's WHO these OTHERS are that MIGHT be equally foolish, the rest of Space, in other words, the MULTI-VERSE)


WHO else COULD question his AUTHORITY, except anyone left in the MULTI-VERSE,


WHO else can THREATEN his REIGN?


CAN'T be the UNIVERSE or the Living Tribunal, he just ABSORBED the UNIVERSE (Eternity/Infinity remember) and LT.




Now your saying to yourself, fine, that conclusively despicts Thanos absorbing the Multi-verse.

But Mr M showed scans of the Cosmic Vortex, where an INFINITE number of Multi-verses are,

How could Thanos have absorbed ALL he could, when he ONLY absorbed ONE Multi-verse?

Now we go back to the OMNIVERSAL structure:




The OMNI-VERSE and the rest of the Multi-verses rest with in the Cosmic Vortex.

See those little Purple Balls, thats where Atleza is (the Cosmic Anchor of the "616" Multi-verse)...

and every little Purple Ball is the Domain of an Anchor of a Multi-verse ...

Each Domain is Outside the Multiverse...Untouched by Space or Time....

The much bigger Blue Balls represent EACH a Multi-verse, and the SUM of the Blue Balls is the Omni-verse.

http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/8021/unilook17qj.th.jpg

http://img280.imageshack.us/img280/9715/unilook21qc.th.jpg

Anything Outside the Blue Balls is Untouched by Space & Time,
which Multi-Eternity/Infinity encompass.

See how the Blue Balls (Multi-verses) are separate from each other, and how the little Purple Balls (the Anchor's domain) are separated from the Blue Balls.

This is why Atleza, Gamora and Warlock were untouched, they were there, in A little Purple Ball, (the Anchors domain, Outside it's respective Multi-verse)

This is why Thanos could not absorb more, he absorbed everything within that Blue Ball (a Multi-verse) and evidently, he could not reach any furthur

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/991/allhecouldum7.th.jpg
"Nothing Remained"

Remember he was "Out of Control"

He kept on absorbing till there was nothing left for him to absorb (literally), HAD he been able to absorb everything Outside his Multi-verse, it would have been no problem with TOAA's power,

But Thanos was NOT able to do it, meaning that's as FAR as TOAA permitted his power to be used, absorption of a Multi-verse and Remaking that same Multi-verse, even though being the most powerful being in the Omni-verse.

Horrificus
MM, first of all, know that I don't even care what the structure is. I have no fan-based opinion, or stake in it. I am just weighing what I am looking at and reading. So, try to control yourself when I disagre with you. Because, if you look at it from my point of view, without trying to interpret what the writers "might" be trying to say, maybe you will see where I am coming from.

They are not Multiverses floating around Warlock. They are Universes.
He calls them "Alls". He asks himself if they are Mirror Images of his "Reality". A Multiverse is made up of inifinite "Realities".
They are Singular Realities he is seeing in those spheres.

Thanos speaks of the next to know of the coming doom, not being from "This Universe", as he speaks from the perspective of acting within "A Universe". Not a Multiverse.

Again, Thanos says that "Deep within the Cosmic Vortex, Our Reality resides."
"Our Reality". A "Reality" is synonomous with "a Universe". It has never been used to refer to the term "Multiverse", in comic fiction or real science.

As a matter of fact, if you push your point, God only knows how many storylines we would have to go back in, where they use the term "Reality" interchangably with "Universe". You have to admit THAT.

You showed the Korvac piece, which depicts the results of a destroyed Enternity entity. Results? A Destroyed Universe.

You showed a panel of Thanos absorbing an Eternity entity. That results in a Thanos taking the place of Eternity in the Universal Firmament.

Then, as you showed, he mentions that "the next to become aware of the coming doom was not exactly of THIS UNIVERSE." Now he is part of this universe, the same way Eternity was. And, he speaks from within.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Horrificus
MM, first of all, know that I don't even care what the structure is. I have no fan-based opinion, or stake in it. I am just weighing what I am looking at and reading. So, try to control yourself when I disagre with you. Because, if you look at it from my point of view, without trying to interpret what the writers "might" be trying to say, maybe you will see where I am coming from.

They are not Multiverses floating around Warlock. They are Universes.
He calls them "Alls". He asks himself if they are Mirror Images of his "Reality". A Multiverse is made up of inifinite "Realities".
They are Singular Realities he is seeing in those spheres.

Thanos speaks of the next to know of the coming doom, not being from "This Universe", as he speaks from the perspective of acting within "A Universe". Not a Multiverse.

Again, Thanos says that "Deep within the Cosmic Vortex, Our Reality resides."
"Our Reality". A "Reality" is synonomous with "a Universe". It has never been used to refer to the term "Multiverse", in comic fiction or real science.

As a matter of fact, if you push your point, God only knows how many storylines we would have to go back in, where they use the term "Reality" interchangably with "Universe". You have to admit THAT.

You showed the Korvac piece, which depicts the results of a destroyed Enternity entity. Results? A Destroyed Universe.

You showed a panel of Thanos absorbing an Eternity entity. That results in a Thanos taking the place of Eternity in the Universal Firmament.

Then, as you showed, he mentions that "the next to become aware of the coming doom was not exactly of THIS UNIVERSE." Now he is part of this universe, the same way Eternity was. And, he speaks from within.
I'm just going to interject here, because there seems to be some miscommunication going on. Mr M's point, is that AFTER he absorbed Eternity, Infinity, and LT, there he was still present in something resembling space. The Eternity IS the universe, so when he absorbed Eternity, he absorbed the universe itself. Then AFTER he absorbed the universe, there was still space and time present around him. With the universe absorbed, that would mean that the space was either the space of a. The mutiverse itself. Or b. the space of another universe. Either way, his continued absorption until there was NOTHING around him, would mean that he absorbed the rest of the multiverse. His scans of the little balls do lend some credit to the theory also. If Death's domain lied OUTSIDE the balls, an Death was still around, that would mean that he absorbed everything INSIDE one of the little balls. So that would mean that the balls are made up of multiverses. I hope that all made sense, I'm in a hurry to get back to work(cause I'm now late), but I'll be back later to check up on how things are moving along.

Horrificus
MM: now to complete your destruction- hehe, just kidding.

You said the Makers made The Microverse. But, as per your scan - No, the Makers did not create any Universe or dimension. They messed with the contents. They seeded it with life.

When Thanos absorbed LT, Eternity and Infinity, he was acting upon a single Univers. As per yoru scan, whenever a Single Universe threatens others, it will be judged. LT was there to Judge That Single Universe.

As per your scan- Roma, or Saturnyne or somebody says that the Sword, Excalibur, was forged in the fires of creation, tempered by the power of THE UNIVERSE. "The Universe".

Again, as per your scans- when Roma and Merlin are playing chess, they are not playing with anything Multiversal, or even Universal. It is shown that the pieces on the boards are "Individuals". As they move a piece, and individual acts. Nothing Mutliversal about it.

While Roma talks about how she bounced Captain Britain around, she is talking about alternate earths, she is talking about universes. Not Multiverses. Nothing is mentioned about Multiverses.

As they discuss Jaspers, Merlin and Roma speak of the fates of Universes, a Continuum, of "Matter". They speak of destroying a universe if they have to, as long as they stop Jaspers. They are concerned for the fate of the Multiverse. Not the Omniverse, as we are discussing it here. They are worried that Jaspers will spread from Universe to Universe, and harm the Multiverse. As per Roma, "The Multiverse depends on the game." She doesn't say the Omniverse.

Horrificus
Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm just going to interject here, because there seems to be some miscommunication going on. Mr M's point, is that AFTER he absorbed Eternity, Infinity, and LT, there he was still present in something resembling space. The Eternity IS the universe, so when he absorbed Eternity, he absorbed the universe itself. Then AFTER he absorbed the universe, there was still space and time present around him. With the universe absorbed, that would mean that the space was either the space of a. The mutiverse itself. Or b. the space of another universe. Either way, his continued absorption until there was NOTHING around him, would mean that he absorbed the rest of the multiverse. His scans of the little balls do lend some credit to the theory also. If Death's domain lied OUTSIDE the balls, an Death was still around, that would mean that he absorbed everything INSIDE one of the little balls. So that would mean that the balls are made up of multiverses. I hope that all made sense, I'm in a hurry to get back to work(cause I'm now late), but I'll be back later to check up on how things are moving along.

The Marvel 616 universe does not exist inside the M body of Eternity.
When Eternity shows up, that is just Eternity sticking it's consciousness into a body that can be interacted with.
When Thanos absorbed Eternity, what he did was absorb Eternity's role in the universe. He became Eternity. That is why space and the universe was still there. He didn't destroy Eternity. He didn't destroy the universe. That was still to come.

manorastroman
yeah...master, those still don't point to those blue balls being anything other than universes. in fact, everytime you post a scan, it seems to point towards the blue balls being universes.

in summation...those are definitely universes, which means that all of marvel is still defined as a "multiverse".

Mr Master
Originally posted by Horrificus
MM: now to complete your destruction- hehe, just kidding.

You think you had to let me know you were kidding.


Originally posted by Horrificus
You said the Makers made The Microverse. But, as per your scan - No, the Makers did not create any Universe or dimension. They messed with the contents. They seeded it with life.

Now you understand why I think your a silly child, why I KNOW you don't pay attention to other's post, your a narcissist, look it up if your clueless to the meaning of the word (that is, if your even reading this narc)

Originally posted by Mr Master
The ONE and ONLY Micro-verse was CREATED by the MAKERS, period.


The MAKERS took a UNIVERSE and RE-CREATED it,

the Micro-verse (which they ALSO Created) is PART of this Universe.


"They have taken the FABRIC of the COSMOS, and WOVEN it ANEW"
http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/6002/m2sr6.th.jpg


"They REAMDE the STARS, the PLANETS, the GALAXIES"
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8326/m6yk4.th.jpg
"All I want for now, is to see them"




ONE DOWN.


Originally posted by Horrificus
When Thanos absorbed LT, Eternity and Infinity, he was acting upon a single Univers. As per yoru scan, whenever a Single Universe threatens others, it will be judged. LT was there to Judge That Single Universe.

LT was there to JUDGE THANOS!


"You HAVE BEEN JUDGE TITAN"
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/5365/ltbw0.th.jpg


"And found UNWORTHY"
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/6681/lt2jz4.th.jpg


Don't take it too hard, I don't expect anything short of PURE IGNORANCE coming out of you at this point.




TWO DOWN.


Originally posted by Horrificus
As per your scan- Roma, or Saturnyne or somebody says that the Sword, Excalibur, was forged in the fires of creation, tempered by the power of THE UNIVERSE. "The Universe".

Which means what my lost child?


Do you even know WHAT TEMPERED MEANS my boy?

"the degree of hardness and elasticity in steel or other metal"

The STEEL of the Sword was hardened by the Power of the Universe, this has NOTHING to do with the POWER of the Sword.


Ohh, Hori Hori...



THREE DOWN.


Originally posted by Horrificus
Again, as per your scans- when Roma and Merlin are playing chess, they are not playing with anything Multiversal, or even Universal. It is shown that the pieces on the boards are "Individuals". As they move a piece, and individual acts. Nothing Mutliversal about it.

And WHO do you think THIS FELLOW is on the Phone?

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/7865/jtv8.th.jpg


Oh my, it happens to be MAD JIM JASPERS! (a PIECE in the CHESS BOARD)


The guy who CREATED his OWN UNIVERSE eek!

http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/7223/m18gy5.th.jpg


"I made everything actually, I made the sky, I made the Tiger the Lamb"

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/1554/jsd5.th.jpg

"I made the Stars"




FOUR DOWN.


Originally posted by Horrificus
While Roma talks about how she bounced Captain Britain around, she is talking about alternate earths, she is talking about universes. Not Multiverses. Nothing is mentioned about Multiverses.

You really are a laugh,


I never said they were jumping around Multi-verses, I CLEARLY SAID,

the CHESS BOARD is a MULTI-VERSE!!!


And there are OTHER CHESS BOARDS floating around (OTHER MULTI-VERSES!)




FIVE DOWN.


Originally posted by Horrificus
As they discuss Jaspers, Merlin and Roma speak of the fates of Universes, a Continuum, of "Matter". They speak of destroying a universe if they have to, as long as they stop Jaspers.

HAHAHAHA!!!



Merlin says, "I stretched your sanity to the breaking point to prepare you for a Universe (238) Reduced to Idiocy" the Omniversal Tribune Erased 238.

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/2566/m16hl3.th.jpg

Merlin says about Cap. Britain, "I sent you to a lesser menace (Jaspers 238) and you were Killed"




Merlin CLEARLY said that merely DESTROYING a UNIVERSE will NOT STOP JASPERS 616:

Merlin says, "You cannot fail, THIS VERSION of JASPERS (616) is too powerful, too dangerous"

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/1219/m17iu3.th.jpg


They had to destroy the entire 238 Universe in order to kill 238 Jaspers,

but 616 JASPERS is "NOT so EASILY CONTAINED, and if he's not stopped, the OMNI-VERSE will fall into Chaos, and a NEW GOD shall play dice with Matter"



SIX DOWN


Continues in the next post..

Mr Master
Continues..

Originally posted by Horrificus
They are concerned for the fate of the Multiverse. Not the Omniverse, as we are discussing it here.

"NOT so EASILY CONTAINED, and if he's not stopped, the OMNI-VERSE will fall into Chaos, and a NEW GOD shall play dice with Matter"


AND:


Roma says, "the terror that threatened the Omni-verse is destroyed"

http://img316.imageshack.us/img316/9749/r19nw6.th.jpg

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/2638/r20ei9.th.jpg

"My hand guides the Omni-verse Now, Unlike my Father, I have no desire to shape the destiny of men"



LIKE MERLIN did with EXCALIBUR, SHAPING the DESTINY of MEN in the OMNI-VERSE.




SEVEN DOWN.


Originally posted by Horrificus
They are worried that Jaspers will spread from Universe to Universe, and harm the Multiverse. As per Roma, "The Multiverse depends on the game." She doesn't say the Omniverse.


firefirefireph

Mr Master
Originally posted by Horrificus
The Marvel 616 universe does not exist inside the M body of Eternity.
When Eternity shows up, that is just Eternity sticking it's consciousness into a body that can be interacted with.
When Thanos absorbed Eternity, what he did was absorb Eternity's role in the universe. He became Eternity. That is why space and the universe was still there. He didn't destroy Eternity. He didn't destroy the universe. That was still to come.


ETERNITY is the UNIVERSE


The UNIVERSE materializing into ETERNITY before Galactus

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/6861/e3bv8.th.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8181/e4cu7.th.jpg



Gamora Enters ETERNITY and ends up INSIDE the UNIVERSE

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/4618/gdo9.th.jpg



The UNIVERSE materializing Into ETERNITY before Strange

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/6990/e1ro8.th.jpg

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9391/e2gp4.th.jpg


EVERYTHING is ETERNITY, those who are there around Dr Strange, see Reality as Eternity

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/350/e3ou8.th.jpg



WHEN Thanos with the IG BECAME the UNIVERSE, it was ETERNITY'S PLACE HE TOOK

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4971/godhoodyn7.th.jpg


AGAIN:


When the UNIVERSE gets ERASED, it's ETERNITY that gets ERASED

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/5489/kpz4.th.jpg

Mr Master
Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm just going to interject here, because there seems to be some miscommunication going on. Mr M's point, is that AFTER he absorbed Eternity, Infinity, and LT, there he was still present in something resembling space. The Eternity IS the universe, so when he absorbed Eternity, he absorbed the universe itself. Then AFTER he absorbed the universe, there was still space and time present around him. With the universe absorbed, that would mean that the space was either the space of a. The mutiverse itself. Or b. the space of another universe. Either way, his continued absorption until there was NOTHING around him, would mean that he absorbed the rest of the multiverse. His scans of the little balls do lend some credit to the theory also. If Death's domain lied OUTSIDE the balls, an Death was still around, that would mean that he absorbed everything INSIDE one of the little balls. So that would mean that the balls are made up of multiverses. I hope that all made sense, I'm in a hurry to get back to work(cause I'm now late), but I'll be back later to check up on how things are moving along.

Darth,

your going to have to take it over from here,

I've had it with these simpletons.

manorastroman
Originally posted by Mr Master
Darth,

your going to have to take it over from here,

I've had it with these simpletons.

you are such an unbelievable arsehole, which would be excusable if you were conclusively right.

are you SURE you're not a GS sock? you sound exactly like him, only even MORE arrogant.

"Now you understand why I think your a silly child, why I KNOW you don't pay attention to other's post, your a narcissist, look it up if your clueless to the meaning of the word (that is, if your even reading this narc)"

the irony is delicious.

Mr Master
Originally posted by manorastroman
you are such an unbelievable arsehole, which would be excusable if you were conclusively right.

I've tried the intelligent path, but your not debating, you've lured me into a game your playing,

so that had to be dealt with accordingly.


Originally posted by manorastroman
are you SURE you're not a GS sock? you sound exactly like him, only even MORE arrogant.

How dare thee, GS is my arch nemesis, you'd know that if you knew.


Originally posted by manorastroman
"Now you understand why I think your a silly child, why I KNOW you don't pay attention to other's post, your a narcissist, look it up if your clueless to the meaning of the word (that is, if your even reading this narc)"

Homeboy shouldn't be replying to me if he hasn't done his homework.

Posting I said this and that, when it's NOT true.


As if I ever post blindly like some others do.


Originally posted by manorastroman
the irony is delicious.

What's ironic is how many times I proved my point and your still walking in circles.


Darthgoober, read it and immediately understood it made sense and was FACT.

manorastroman
no if you're going to be so conceited as to dismiss all who oppose you, you will be dealt with in kind. half the time you don't even respond to points, you just post a dancing banana or some such.

Horrificus
Wow! You areally ARE crazy and nasty aren't you. If you lived near me, I might even be tempted to invite you to meet so you could receive a well-earned, old-fashioned facial reconstruction.
Not kidding now. You are smart to hurl insults and call names from the safety of a computer screen you basement-dwelling, parent's-house-living, Dungeons and Dragon's playing, scared of girls, Ninja-Suit wearing, comic-book-hero-masturbating, puppy-torturing, Dragonball Z-Underwear buying, peaking-at-your-mom-in-the-shower, tell-your-younger-relatives-that-you-really-ARE-a-Super hero, pretend to be intelligent, dork!


Originally posted by Mr Master
You think you had to let me know you were kidding.




Now you understand why I think your a silly child, why I KNOW you don't pay attention to other's post, your a narcissist, look it up if your clueless to the meaning of the word (that is, if your even reading this narc)






ONE DOWN.
Idiot!
The scan says: "They did not make this universe, but they did create the life here."
You retard! Your scan says you are wrong. They did not make the universe, you freak.




LT was there to JUDGE THANOS!
Imbecile! Thanos absorbed LT's M Body! If you know anything about LT, it is that he has an M body in EVERY Universe! You clown! The real things sits above.


"You HAVE BEEN JUDGE TITAN"
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/5365/ltbw0.th.jpg


"And found UNWORTHY"
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/6681/lt2jz4.th.jpg


Don't take it too hard, I don't expect anything short of PURE IGNORANCE coming out of you at this point.




TWO DOWN.




Which means what my lost child?


Do you even know WHAT TEMPERED MEANS my boy?

"the degree of hardness and elasticity in steel or other metal"

The STEEL of the Sword was hardened by the Power of the Universe, this has NOTHING to do with the POWER of the Sword.


Ohh, Hori Hori...

The sword is not Multiversal, NOT Omniversal. It was forged in A UNIVERSE, and is a UNIVERSAL weapon. Do some searching online. You know, for opinions other than you own. You will see that there are others that agree with me, that the term "Omniverse" in the Excalibur books does not stand for the giant area of space containing the Multiverses. It stands for all the dimensions and alternate realities stemming from "real-space".
It was created in A universe, for a Universe.
The story contradicts itself every few panels. Terrible.



THREE DOWN.




And WHO do you think THIS FELLOW is on the Phone?

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/7865/jtv8.th.jpg


Oh my, it happens to be MAD JIM JASPERS! (a PIECE in the CHESS BOARD)


The guy who CREATED his OWN UNIVERSE eek!

What does that prove?! He created A Universe. I never said anything about that. As a matter of fact, I agree that they were scared he could possible effect the other universes, and possibly even the multiverse eventually. Has nothing to do with my points.

http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/7223/m18gy5.th.jpg


"I made everything actually, I made the sky, I made the Tiger the Lamb"

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/1554/jsd5.th.jpg

"I made the Stars"




FOUR DOWN.




You really are a laugh,


I never said they were jumping around Multi-verses, I CLEARLY SAID,

the CHESS BOARD is a MULTI-VERSE!!!


And there are OTHER CHESS BOARDS floating around (OTHER MULTI-VERSES!)

You IDJIT!
Each board symbolizes A SPECIFIC DRAMA taking place in A SPECIFIC UNIVERSE!
Everytime they move a peice, it makes a character act! Are you as insane as I am thinking you are?!
Are you missing an EYE or something?
She moves a piece, a character moves. That's all! Not across multiple universes!
In one! Read your scans, you POOF!



FIVE DOWN.




HAHAHAHA!!!



Merlin says, "I stretched your sanity to the breaking point to prepare you for a Universe (238) Reduced to Idiocy" the Omniversal Tribune Erased 238.

You MANIAC! The panel discusses A UNIVERSE. You wrote the part that happened in your mind, about Omniversal Tribune erasing 238. It is not on that panel.

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/2566/m16hl3.th.jpg

Merlin says about Cap. Britain, "I sent you to a lesser menace (Jaspers 238) and you were Killed"




Merlin CLEARLY said that merely DESTROYING a UNIVERSE will NOT STOP JASPERS 616:

Merlin says, "You cannot fail, THIS VERSION of JASPERS (616) is too powerful, too dangerous"

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/1219/m17iu3.th.jpg


They had to destroy the entire 238 Universe in order to kill 238 Jaspers,

but 616 JASPERS is "NOT so EASILY CONTAINED, and if he's not stopped, the OMNI-VERSE will fall into Chaos, and a NEW GOD shall play dice with Matter"


That has nothing to do with my argument. ...Stupid Guy!

Anyway, I don't care how powerful Jim Jaspers is. My point is, they are discussing UNIVERSES! NOT MULTIVERSES! You TWIT!
JJ from this universe, jj from that one, sent you to this one, sending you to that one.
They are not playing in Multiverses, just Universes!

Nothing down!


SIX DOWN


Continues in the next post..

Horrificus
Originally posted by Mr Master
Continues..



"NOT so EASILY CONTAINED, and if he's not stopped, the OMNI-VERSE will fall into Chaos, and a NEW GOD shall play dice with Matter"


AND:


Roma says, "the terror that threatened the Omni-verse is destroyed"

http://img316.imageshack.us/img316/9749/r19nw6.th.jpg

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/2638/r20ei9.th.jpg

"My hand guides the Omni-verse Now, Unlike my Father, I have no desire to shape the destiny of men"



LIKE MERLIN did with EXCALIBUR, SHAPING the DESTINY of MEN in the OMNI-VERSE.




SEVEN DOWN.





firefirefireph

I addressed this, and you felt a sharp pain as the sensation of "Wrongness" invaded your tenous grasp of reality.

Remember? When you realized that you are both Incorrect AND Stupid.

Yeah, that was because I showed you the error of your ways.

Horrificus
Originally posted by Mr Master
ETERNITY is the UNIVERSE


The UNIVERSE materializing into ETERNITY before Galactus

You are, without a doubt, the most idiotic person I have ever had to deal with!
How do you explain the tons of times that Eternity has appeared WITHIN the universe is the various other storylines that have shown it to be so?!
So, Galactus, is suddenly the size of a Universe also?
Wow! Smart! So, I guess we have a LOT of revision to do.
You should remember to be silent when you dont' know what you are talking about.
It would help with the whole "Stupid Guy" thing that you seem to exude.

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/6861/e3bv8.th.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8181/e4cu7.th.jpg



Gamora Enters ETERNITY and ends up INSIDE the UNIVERSE

So what!? Eternity is Linked to the Universe. Maybe he acted as a portal. Maybe he willed her to do what she did, and he transported her. It does not matter.Our Universe, as Eternity, was not standing in that white void! Do you even know what the M Body is?! Eternity uses it, as well as almost all other abstracts.

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/4618/gdo9.th.jpg



The UNIVERSE materializing Into ETERNITY before Strange

Seriously. Is there something wrong with you? Are you reading your scans, or are you jsut used to people taking your word for the tripe you spout?
The scan Shows Eternity above a city. The scan says that Eternity stands over the Greenwich Skyline. Maybe bad writing, maybe not though through, I don't know. So, at that moment, the universe is standing over Greenwich? Is that the siliness you are saying? Eternity is not using an M body? Instead the universe has collapsed so he can stand over NY?
Good call?


http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/6990/e1ro8.th.jpg

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9391/e2gp4.th.jpg


EVERYTHING is ETERNITY, those who are there around Dr Strange, see Reality as Eternity

It never says this. And, even if it did, it would not matter. It has nothing to do with my statements. You are just babbling.
They are terrified to see the giant Eternity M Body in the sky. As it says. Please read your scans before making stuff up, rewriting the panels and giving your opinions. Because, to tell the truth, your opinions are childish.
Why don't you just write?..." Wook at dith thcan. Etewnity ith weel big, wike da hole ooniberseth. Thee? Aw da peepew a thcared beecauth day thee da ooniberth wite thewe in da thky. Thee?"
That would be an improvement on your observational skills.

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/350/e3ou8.th.jpg



WHEN Thanos with the IG BECAME the UNIVERSE, it was ETERNITY'S PLACE HE TOOK

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4971/godhoodyn7.th.jpg


AGAIN:


When the UNIVERSE gets ERASED, it's ETERNITY that gets ERASED

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/5489/kpz4.th.jpg

Your other scans have nothing to do with anything I have said. But, thanks for showing them off.
Great, Thanos took Eternity's place. Has nothing to do with what I wrote.
The universe dies, Eternity dies. No shit. Never said it didn't. As a matter of fact, go back and read that I said that very thing.
Maybe lay off the weed while debating me.

Horrificus
Originally posted by Mr Master
Darth,

your going to have to take it over from here,

I've had it with these simpletons.
Yes! March off to bed in your Doctor Doom pajamas, leaving a Super-Lackey to do your bidding!
Hahaha. What a nut!
Yes Darth. Obey the Master! Hahaha.
Wow!
Somebody's Mommy needs to take away hith "funny papers", and increase the ritalin dose!
Either that, or somebody's mommy needs to kick somebody out of the basement, and make him get a job!

Horrificus
!

darthgoober
Originally posted by Horrificus
Yes! March off to bed in your Doctor Doom pajamas, leaving a Super-Lackey to do your bidding!
Hahaha. What a nut!
Yes Darth. Obey the Master! Hahaha.
Wow!
Somebody's Mommy needs to take away hith "funny papers", and increase the ritalin dose!
Either that, or somebody's mommy needs to kick somebody out of the basement, and make him get a job!
Ok guy, i don't know what your problem is, but you seriously need to chill out. What Mr. Master has done, is compiled data from multiple sources, and linked them together in such a way that they all make sense. Writer's of cosmic level events are notorious for their inability to research what's already been established(which is why so much of it contradicts). Now they may or may not agree with the Mr. M's interpretation of events, but if every statement made in those comics are taken at face value, NONE of them can really be accepted, because they all conflict with something else that's been published by Marvel. the simple fact is, WE(on KMC) obsess over how all this stuff is set up than the writers do. Period. Mr. M. interprets things the way he does, because things fit together better his way than they otherwise would, ESPECIALLY regarding The End. Even Mr. M will tell you that it wasn't really that good of a piece of writing, it contradicted other sources, and it actually contradicted itself.

Now I want you to think about something, what was your purpose in creating this thread? Your trying to map the layout of Marvel and DC, right? Well, Marvel and DC have never released an actual map of how their cosmology is layed out, which means that YOU are going to have to go by interpretations of what HAS been established to accomplish your goal. So how is your initial goal any different than what Mr. M has done for himself?

Think of it like this, you don't like his proof of how everything's set up. Fine. Now where's yours? You want to say that Marvel ISN'T an omniverse in and of itself, well where's your proof to support that? The fact is that barring logic and interpretations, all you have left to formulate this is on panel proof. And Marvel has discussed an omniverse on panel in Excalibur. The fact that it hasn't been discussed much, doesn't change that it HAS been talked about. So Marvel IS an omniverse. The omniverse is made up of everything that comprises Marvel Comics. That doesn't change no matter what is in those blue balls floating around.

Mr. M's interpretation of the layout is just as valid as anyones(and makes far more sense than most). And ALL of his interpretations are supported in some way shape or form on panel. You seem to be more interested in picking apart his theories, than supporting your own. If you have a better layout of how the omniverse is set up, show it to us. And make sure that you have all the proof that your demanding from everyone else to support your layout.

And I don't know where you get off calling me a super lackey, just because I happen to agree with him on several of these matters, cause if you'd ever payed attention on the vs forum, you'd see that I've actually debated AGAINST him more than not. Yes we have a mutual respect for one another, because we both value well thought out logic, and are always able to agree to disagree, but I'm anything but a lackey to ANYONE. So I suggest that you keep your comments regarding me to yourself, cause Mr. M. is generally a lot nicer about this stuff than I am.

manorastroman
Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok guy, i don't know what your problem is, but you seriously need to chill out. What Mr. Master has done, is compiled data from multiple sources, and linked them together in such a way that they all make sense. Writer's of cosmic level events are notorious for their inability to research what's already been established(which is why so much of it contradicts). Now they may or may not agree with the Mr. M's interpretation of events, but if every statement made in those comics are taken at face value, NONE of them can really be accepted, because they all conflict with something else that's been published by Marvel. the simple fact is, WE(on KMC) obsess over how all this stuff is set up than the writers do. Period. Mr. M. interprets things the way he does, because things fit together better his way than they otherwise would, ESPECIALLY regarding The End. Even Mr. M will tell you that it wasn't really that good of a piece of writing, it contradicted other sources, and it actually contradicted itself.


thank you for admitting that his interpretation has plenty of room for argument, i wish he would do the same. that's all i really ask.

Horrificus
Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok guy, i don't know what your problem is, but you seriously need to chill out. What Mr. Master has done, is compiled data from multiple sources, and linked them together in such a way that they all make sense. Writer's of cosmic level events are notorious for their inability to research what's already been established(which is why so much of it contradicts). Now they may or may not agree with the Mr. M's interpretation of events, but if every statement made in those comics are taken at face value, NONE of them can really be accepted, because they all conflict with something else that's been published by Marvel. the simple fact is, WE(on KMC) obsess over how all this stuff is set up than the writers do. Period. Mr. M. interprets things the way he does, because things fit together better his way than they otherwise would, ESPECIALLY regarding The End. Even Mr. M will tell you that it wasn't really that good of a piece of writing, it contradicted other sources, and it actually contradicted itself.

Now I want you to think about something, what was your purpose in creating this thread? Your trying to map the layout of Marvel and DC, right? Well, Marvel and DC have never released an actual map of how their cosmology is layed out, which means that YOU are going to have to go by interpretations of what HAS been established to accomplish your goal. So how is your initial goal any different than what Mr. M has done for himself?

Think of it like this, you don't like his proof of how everything's set up. Fine. Now where's yours? You want to say that Marvel ISN'T an omniverse in and of itself, well where's your proof to support that? The fact is that barring logic and interpretations, all you have left to formulate this is on panel proof. And Marvel has discussed an omniverse on panel in Excalibur. The fact that it hasn't been discussed much, doesn't change that it HAS been talked about. So Marvel IS an omniverse. The omniverse is made up of everything that comprises Marvel Comics. That doesn't change no matter what is in those blue balls floating around.

Mr. M's interpretation of the layout is just as valid as anyones(and makes far more sense than most). And ALL of his interpretations are supported in some way shape or form on panel. You seem to be more interested in picking apart his theories, than supporting your own. If you have a better layout of how the omniverse is set up, show it to us. And make sure that you have all the proof that your demanding from everyone else to support your layout.

And I don't know where you get off calling me a super lackey, just because I happen to agree with him on several of these matters, cause if you'd ever payed attention on the vs forum, you'd see that I've actually debated AGAINST him more than not. Yes we have a mutual respect for one another, because we both value well thought out logic, and are always able to agree to disagree, but I'm anything but a lackey to ANYONE. So I suggest that you keep your comments regarding me to yourself, cause Mr. M. is generally a lot nicer about this stuff than I am.

There was nothing in my thread that deserved the crazy, nasty, negative comments he kept spewing. I didn't even care what was posted. I wasn't bombing anybody. I just wanted to see people's ideas.

He was unable to do the same, and immediately began with insults and craziness.

First of all, I have no problem with Mr M or anybody talking about this stuff with me, disagreeing, etc. That's fine, that's cool.
What I didn't like is the way he kept caling names, and getting nasty and belittling anybody that disagreed with him.
So, all I did, was show him what he is doing, by giving him his own medicine That's all.
There is a right way of doing things. Obviously, you read my attempts to get him to stop with the nastiness, but did not have the balls to agree with me. Yet, here you are berating me when I gave it back to him.
Very nice.

Second, when I said you were his "Super Lackey", I was busting on him, not you. I just thought it was funny, how he took for granted that you agreed with everything he said and did, and then actually orderd you to take over for him.
Very funny.
But, my comment had nothing to do with you

Third, if you just threatened me, in ANY way, bring it on. I have nothing against you, but I am always into it if somebody has a problem with me.gunsmilie
And, contrary to what that idiotic fem has said about me, while he insulted my intelligence, and you sat back, behaving yourself, and not wanting to comment on what an ass he was being, I am more than capable of defending myself in a debate.

Go back and read my posts. I repeatedly asked him to stop being nasty.
He ignored it. So, now he can enjoy my attention.
Earlier, when he started this stuff, I received IM's from people telling me what an ass he is, and to tear him apart.
I kept saying that I felt sorry for him, and that I was going to go easy.
Well, now we are past that.blowup

He is not a very smart guy. He ignores 50 to 60% of the details in his own scans. He lies. He gives his opinions and ignores what is being written or portrayed on panel, if it goes against his mania.

I am not impressed with him, like many of you are.
I do not think he handles himself respectfully in here.
He is arrogant.
He is delusional.
He is unintelligent, even though he attempts to use words large enough to cover this up.
He gets hurt when his opinions are not appreciated.
And, he puts his opinions above what is on panel.
He contradicts himself.
He is a grotesque little hitler

Mr. Master raygun

And, worst of all, he used the word "Thee"!

Horrificus
um... again. He said "Thee".

That really hurt.rolleyes1

King Kandy
Now, if MM and everyone else could put aside their own arrogance, we could get something constructive done.

I'm willing to work with you on this project, Horrificus. There has to be a way to take the MM interpretation, and make it less muddled. A system that complies with both Logic AND Scans.

MM's system is correct! But I think he's making it needlessly complicated by adding unnesesary dimensions.

So, just tell you what you need. I'm no slouch in the area of cosmics myself.

Mr Master
Wow, what a psycho RANT!

A complete regurgitation of absolute GIBBERISH!


You were OWNED on every turn, and anyone who reviews this thread would know that to be TRUE.


You ignored all the FACTS, and added your clueless ignorance as an opposition to ALL the CONCRETE FACTS.


But whatever, I'm done filling your thread with priceless pearls.

Originally posted by Horrificus
The panel discusses A UNIVERSE. You wrote the part that happened in your mind, about Omniversal Tribune erasing 238. It is not on that panel.

This is about the ONLY part of ALL that GARBAGE that's worth recognizing,

And might I add, I only do this for the innocent onlookers, and TRUE DEBATERS ..... NOT for you,

to prove to my peoples that EVERYTHING I say, is straight from the Comics, ON PANEL and it's ALWAYS CANON!



This person said, that "I WROTE the PART THAT HAPPENED IN MY MIND about OMNIVERSAL TRIBUNE ERASING" 238


Let's see who's been dealing with their OWN MIND ALL this TIME shall we...




Check it yall...



The Supreme OMNI-VERSAL Tribune holds a COURT session to discuss the FATE of the 238 UNIVERSE, (WHERE Jim Jaspers 238 has TAKEN OVER, and WHERE Jim Jaspers 238 IS)

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/3152/kft8.th.jpg





"It is within my power to have a given UNIVERSE REMOVED should it's existence THREATEN the OMNI-VERSE"

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/9673/k3kd5.th.jpg

"Objection"





"Objection OVER RULED"

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/6017/k4ef8.th.jpg

"a CRYSTAL KEY is turned, a Chain Reaction Commenced"

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/2561/e6qo5.th.jpg

"A Stricken UNIVERSE is placed FOREVER beyond Suffering"





"A WHOLE UNIVERSE! ... He just WIPED OUT a WHOLE UNIVERSE at the flick of a switch"

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/7337/k2hr3.th.jpg



"In ALL the OMNI-VERSE there is NOT ONE Universe that I cannot DESTROY at the Touch of a Switch"

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/3205/e8tr6.th.jpg





"A few moments ago, Lord Mandragon (the Judge) ORDERED the DESTRUCTION of EARTH 238's ENTIRE CONTINUUM"

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/55/k1so0.th.jpg





AND here is MORE PROOF true debaters, that it was INDEED the 238 UNIVERSE that was ERASED along with JIM JASPERS 238:



"Majestrix...Would you DESCRIBE HOW the tragedy on EARTH 238 came about?"
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5995/k5yk5.th.jpg



"it was a REALITY STORM, GRAVITY, CAUSE & EFFECT, PROBABILITY, LOGIC, ALL of them went HAYWIRE"

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/9940/k6nx3.th.jpg

"I Learned that an IMMENSELY Powerful INSANE MUTANT had been behind the CHAOS"




Well then, guess that settles that, as EVERYTHING else was settled aswell.

Now go blah blah blah your way around ALL the evidence AGIAN,

just remember to READ MORE COMICS before EVER stepping into a debate.



UNDERSTAND? master


good boy.... now BE GONE!

King Kandy
MM... You're more bitchy today then I've ever seen you. Did something bad happen?

You weren't even this bad back with GS.

manorastroman
he did it again...none of what mr master posted refutes much of anything. what a weirdo. ah, i guess SOMEBODY had to fill GS's shoes.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Horrificus
First of all, I have no problem with Mr M or anybody talking about this stuff with me, disagreeing, etc. That's fine, that's cool.
What I didn't like is the way he kept caling names, and getting nasty and belittling anybody that disagreed with him.
So, all I did, was show him what he is doing, by giving him his own medicine That's all.
There is a right way of doing things. Obviously, you read my attempts to get him to stop with the nastiness, but did not have the balls to agree with me. Yet, here you are berating me when I gave it back to him.
Very nice.
My not jumping in between the two of you, had nothing to do with a lack of balls on my part. I simply didn't feel inclined to do so. I wouldn't have felt the need to make my last post towards you, if it didn't seem like you were taking a shot at me. Also I happen to agree with most of theories on how Marvel's omniverse is structured(not ALL of them, but a significant majority), and I don't see why people feel the need to lump the two companies together within a common omniverse, just because an omniverse is supposed to mean EVERYTHING. I've personally been trying to convince people that they don't for some time now, so I can understand where he's coming from(about people disregarding obvious things, just to make the concept of an omniverse more realistic). Which is another reason I felt no need to jump in. I made my stance on the matter clear on the first page, so I felt no need to try to contradict the things he was saying. You guys were debating and things got heated, it happens. Though if I thought he was taking a shot at me, then I WOULD have responded the exact same way I did to you.

Originally posted by Horrificus Second, when I said you were his "Super Lackey", I was busting on him, not you. I just thought it was funny, how he took for granted that you agreed with everything he said and did, and then actually orderd you to take over for him.
Very funny.
But, my comment had nothing to do with you
Well it seemed to from my point of view when I read it, but if it wasn't a shot at me, then my bad.

Originally posted by Horrificus Third, if you just threatened me, in ANY way, bring it on. I have nothing against you, but I am always into it if somebody has a problem with me.gunsmilie
And, contrary to what that idiotic fem has said about me, while he insulted my intelligence, and you sat back, behaving yourself, and not wanting to comment on what an ass he was being, I am more than capable of defending myself in a debate.
No threat, just pointing out that Mr. M in generally like to keep his debates civil(at least the majority of the time, this obviously is an exception laughing ), but I don't necessarily feel the need to do that if I think someones trying to make things personal. But since it turns out that you weren't taking a shot at me, it's not really an issue.


Now regarding the rest of your post, you can think whatever you want about Mr. Master, I don't care(and neither does he, I assure you). But from what I've seen, he puts far more thought into cosmic matters than anyone else around. Yes, some of the things he says are contradicted at some point in time or another on panel, but that's just because EVERYTHING(literally) in comics has been contridicted by something else at some point.

Horrificus
Whew!

Good thing I ignored everything you wrote below, and will never read it, otherwise, I may become infuriated by your nastiness, and confused by your stupidity.

Now, does anybody "sane" have anything to add?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Wow, what a psycho RANT!

A complete regurgitation of absolute GIBBERISH!


You were OWNED on every turn, and anyone who reviews this thread would know that to be TRUE.


You ignored all the FACTS, and added your clueless ignorance as an opposition to ALL the CONCRETE FACTS.


But whatever, I'm done filling your thread with priceless pearls.



This is about the ONLY part of ALL that GARBAGE that's worth recognizing,

And might I add, I only do this for the innocent onlookers, and TRUE DEBATERS ..... NOT for you,

to prove to my peoples that EVERYTHING I say, is straight from the Comics, ON PANEL and it's ALWAYS CANON!



This person said, that "I WROTE the PART THAT HAPPENED IN MY MIND about OMNIVERSAL TRIBUNE ERASING" 238


Let's see who's been dealing with their OWN MIND ALL this TIME shall we...




Check it yall...



The Supreme OMNI-VERSAL Tribune holds a COURT session to discuss the FATE of the 238 UNIVERSE, (WHERE Jim Jaspers 238 has TAKEN OVER, and WHERE Jim Jaspers 238 IS)

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/3152/kft8.th.jpg





"It is within my power to have a given UNIVERSE REMOVED should it's existence THREATEN the OMNI-VERSE"

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/9673/k3kd5.th.jpg

"Objection"





"Objection OVER RULED"

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/6017/k4ef8.th.jpg

"a CRYSTAL KEY is turned, a Chain Reaction Commenced"

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/2561/e6qo5.th.jpg

"A Stricken UNIVERSE is placed FOREVER beyond Suffering"





"A WHOLE UNIVERSE! ... He just WIPED OUT a WHOLE UNIVERSE at the flick of a switch"

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/7337/k2hr3.th.jpg



"In ALL the OMNI-VERSE there is NOT ONE Universe that I cannot DESTROY at the Touch of a Switch"

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/3205/e8tr6.th.jpg





"A few moments ago, Lord Mandragon (the Judge) ORDERED the DESTRUCTION of EARTH 238's ENTIRE CONTINUUM"

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/55/k1so0.th.jpg





AND here is MORE PROOF true debaters, that it was INDEED the 238 UNIVERSE that was ERASED along with JIM JASPERS 238:



"Majestrix...Would you DESCRIBE HOW the tragedy on EARTH 238 came about?"
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5995/k5yk5.th.jpg



"it was a REALITY STORM, GRAVITY, CAUSE & EFFECT, PROBABILITY, LOGIC, ALL of them went HAYWIRE"

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/9940/k6nx3.th.jpg

"I Learned that an IMMENSELY Powerful INSANE MUTANT had been behind the CHAOS"




Well then, guess that settles that, as EVERYTHING else was settled aswell.

Now go blah blah blah your way around ALL the evidence AGIAN,

just remember to READ MORE COMICS before EVER stepping into a debate.



UNDERSTAND? master


good boy.... now BE GONE!

Horrificus
First of all, I think he is wrong about a lot, and waaaay off base about even more.

Second, even though I think this, I still wouldn't have "let him have it" if he hadn't been so nasty.
It doesn't bother me that people disagree with me about comic books, and I would not just start taking shots at somebody that did not adhere to my view of a story.
That is just idiotic.

That being said, all I wanted, was to see what other people's views were, and now I don't think we are going to see many people saying what they think. Mostly, because this tard showed the forum that he is going to redicule anybody that chimes in.
That's sad.

Anyway, I still want to see some ideas from people, especially if it is based on a story that we have not acknowledged yet.

Originally posted by darthgoober
My not jumping in between the two of you, had nothing to do with a lack of balls on my part. I simply didn't feel inclined to do so. I wouldn't have felt the need to make my last post towards you, if it didn't seem like you were taking a shot at me. Also I happen to agree with most of theories on how Marvel's omniverse is structured(not ALL of them, but a significant majority), and I don't see why people feel the need to lump the two companies together within a common omniverse, just because an omniverse is supposed to mean EVERYTHING. I've personally been trying to convince people that they don't for some time now, so I can understand where he's coming from(about people disregarding obvious things, just to make the concept of an omniverse more realistic). Which is another reason I felt no need to jump in. I made my stance on the matter clear on the first page, so I felt no need to try to contradict the things he was saying. You guys were debating and things got heated, it happens. Though if I thought he was taking a shot at me, then I WOULD have responded the exact same way I did to you.


Well it seemed to from my point of view when I read it, but if it wasn't a shot at me, then my bad.


No threat, just pointing out that Mr. M in generally like to keep his debates civil(at least the majority of the time, this obviously is an exception laughing ), but I don't necessarily feel the need to do that if I think someones trying to make things personal. But since it turns out that you weren't taking a shot at me, it's not really an issue.


Now regarding the rest of your post, you can think whatever you want about Mr. Master, I don't care(and neither does he, I assure you). But from what I've seen, he puts far more thought into cosmic matters than anyone else around. Yes, some of the things he says are contradicted at some point in time or another on panel, but that's just because EVERYTHING(literally) in comics has been contridicted by something else at some point.

Nobody will be made fun of, and there are no stupid ideas.
We will just base our findings on the wording in the books, the story and exact statements from writers if they are used.

King Kandy
how about the kismet? Warlock went there, and Destroyed a timeline to get himself out of a loop.

It seems like a place where you can get rid of timelines that diverge on something you did.

Horrificus
I have been working on the "Timeline" situation.

It ain't easy.
If a Timeline splinters off a core, such as 616, where does it go, nest, spring up, or whatever you would call it?
Even many mainstream scientists believe that for every possible action, there is a separate universe popping up.
Now, in "Real Space", theoretically, space is finite. Even if it is almost infinitely large. If you are looking at a Multiverse, filled with Universes that already exists, there are only 5 possibilities. Either:

1. Each Multiverse is filled with unique, non-related universes, in a finite space, (the Multiverse). And, the Alternate Timeline Universes are just popping up in "real Space", here and there. And, if we take that space, and start filling it with an infinte number of new, alternate timeline universes, the multiverse would run out of room instantly. So, this is a tough one.

2. There is a separate Multiverse-type space, in "Real Space", associated with each Universe, which is MADE specifically to be populated with Alternate Timeline Universes as they pop up.

3. There is a Dimension associated with each Universe, that is somehow Infinite in Size, and the Alternate Timeline Universes are popping up into this dimension, in Inner Space.

4. Or, maybe there are not that many Alternate Timeline Universes, because, maybe it takes a very special, and potent set of circumstances to create a splinter, off-shoot, Alternate Timeline. And, even in that case, then, maybe options 1, 2 or 3 apply.

5. Maybe the Multiverse, or even the Omniverse, is filled with nothing but copies of the 616, or Core Universe. Maybe each Multiverse is filled with a Core Universe, and it's infinite number of Alternate Timeline Universes, and no Unique Universes at all.

King Kandy
Perhaps,

6. There is a seperate dimension for each timelin, the same size as the "Normal" Universe, which joins millions of such universes in the same containment, the multiverse.

Horrificus
It really is a huge question.

If they are in the process of being created, and do not already exist, what is the entity that presides over them?

For instance, if Living Tribunal resides and judges the existsing universes in the multiverse of 616, who is watching over the new, splinter timeline universe?

King Kandy
The Living Tribunal. I thought What If? made that obvious. What If? is composed of alternate timelines, And the LT is featured in it sometimes.

Horrificus
Hey! You are right!

Ok. So, we know the LT oversees Alternate Timelines.
That means, that, at least on some level, they exist within the Multiverse.
Good. First part of the description is established.

Now, do you know of any instances where the LT has ever entered a Pocket Dimension, Mystic Realm or anything outside of "Real Space"?
Or, have his showings been limited to Real Space, and Universal Bodies?

King Kandy
Originally posted by Horrificus
Hey! You are right!

Ok. So, we know the LT oversees Alternate Timelines.
That means, that, at least on some level, they exist within the Multiverse.
Good. First part of the description is established.

Now, do you know of any instances where the LT has ever entered a Pocket Dimension, Mystic Realm or anything outside of "Real Space"?
Or, have his showings been limited to Real Space, and Universal Bodies?
He appears regularly in the dimension of manifestations, the 16th dimension, and has visited various mystic realms.

Horrificus
Originally posted by King Kandy
He appears regularly in the dimension of manifestations, the 16th dimension, and has visited various mystic realms.

OK. Great.

That tells us that a Multiverse is made up of "Real Space" and "Inner Space".

Living Tribunal resides over the Entire Multiverse.

LT has been seen acting within Real Space Universes, Alternate Timelines, Pocket Dimensions and Inner Space Universes.

He must have an M Body presiding over every realm in the Multiverse.

King Kandy
Originally posted by Horrificus
He must have an M Body presiding over every realm in the Multiverse.
Nope, there's only ONE M-Body. He appears individualy whenever he is called for.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Horrificus
OK. Great.

That tells us that a Multiverse is made up of "Real Space" and "Inner Space".

Living Tribunal resides over the Entire Multiverse.

LT has been seen acting within Real Space Universes, Alternate Timelines, Pocket Dimensions and Inner Space Universes.

He must have an M Body presiding over every realm in the Multiverse.
LT resides over ALL the multiverses in Marvel simultaneously. As this scan clearly states...

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2994/lt2cm.th.jpg

Horrificus
Originally posted by darthgoober
LT resides over ALL the multiverses in Marvel simultaneously. As this scan clearly states...

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2994/lt2cm.th.jpg

Agreed.

He has a Presence in all realities, all at once. A peice of him, while the whole resides elsewhere, wherever that is.

Since he has been shown to use an M Body when he does stuff, chances are that he has an M Body in each realm.

King Kandy
Originally posted by Horrificus
Since he has been shown to use an M Body when he does stuff, chances are that he has an M Body in each realm.
But his M-Bodies aren't "Seperate", like other abstracts. There's an Eternity in every Universe, isn't there? And they are all seperate beings.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Horrificus
Agreed.

He has a Presence in all realities, all at once. A peice of him, while the whole resides elsewhere, wherever that is.

Since he has been shown to use an M Body when he does stuff, chances are that he has an M Body in each realm. So you DO accept that Marvel is more than just a multiverse now, right?

leonidas
Originally posted by darthgoober
LT resides over ALL the multiverses in Marvel simultaneously. As this scan clearly states...

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2994/lt2cm.th.jpg

careful with that scan. it is refuted in EVERY other appearance of lt. why would we accept that it is multiverse'S' when every other scan and appearance of him says multiverse'E'? seems more likely a typo to me. i'm puzzled why this scan should/would be accepted considering it is one in dozens to say this. the VAST majority of proof lies with a singular multiverse as regards the lt.

Mr Master
Originally posted by leonidas
careful with that scan. it is refuted in EVERY other appearance of lt. why would we accept that it is multiverse'S' when every other scan and appearance of him says multiverse'E'? seems more likely a typo to me. i'm puzzled why this scan should/would be accepted considering it is one in dozens to say this. the VAST majority of proof lies with a singular multiverse as regards the lt.

If even Galactus operates on an Omniversal level,

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/2871/gog5.th.jpg

Surely the Living Tribunal must also.

<< THERE IS MORE FROM THIS THREAD HERE >>