Best SW Duo!

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Darth Martin
Guess this should be in the other thread but it doesn't get that much attention. Vote/top ten/ or whatever/ and list reasons.

I'd say Mace Windu and Yoda is the best Duo.

kamikz
That could depend, if it is the most powerful duo then it's just pratically taking the two most powerful people in SW together, if it is the best duo, meaning teamwork and such, then i would take Anakin and Obi-Wan, seeing as they was THE jedi duo!

Darth Martin
Originally posted by kamikz
That could depend, if it is the most powerful duo then it's just pratically taking the two most powerful people in SW together, if it is the best duo, meaning teamwork and such, then i would take Anakin and Obi-Wan, seeing as they was THE jedi duo! Anakin was always bickering and whining. But by RotS they seemed to be a pretty good duo. Qui Gon and Obi Wan had the best teamwork. In Clone Wars Mace and Yoda worked well together on Coruscant. "But Commander, who has our left flank?" "The Jedi have the left." Mace and Yoda were destroying droids and it took hundreds of clones to hold the right flank.

kamikz
Since when was Anakin "always" bitching and whining? I don't remember him ever doing that in a battle by ROTS or close to it. They were described as THE jedi duo, which means they are the best jedi duo, the meaning of how a jedi duo should be. Yoda and Mace were powerful together, but that hardly mean's the best teamwork.

I don't see how Qui-Gon and Obi were above Anakin and Obi, they weren't really that special together were they?

ESB -1138
Originally posted by Darth Martin
Anakin was always bickering and whining. But by RotS they seemed to be a pretty good duo. Qui Gon and Obi Wan had the best teamwork. In Clone Wars Mace and Yoda worked well together on Coruscant. "But Commander, who has our left flank?" "The Jedi have the left." Mace and Yoda were destroying droids and it took hundreds of clones to hold the right flank.

And the Clone Wars cartoon overpowers everyone. If Mace could have done what he did he would have done so at Geonosis and wouldn't need any clone troopers to save him at the arena.

Anakin and Obi-Wan are by far the best team.

Darth Martin
Fair enough. This is all around best duo, or even who would make the best duo. This doesn't have to be just jedi.

kamikz
Most powerful I would say is Luke at his best, and DE Sidious, for being the best sith, and having the awefully destructive force storm!

Best team work would probably be Anakin and Obi-Wan, seeing as they got a plan for almost every situation, an approach to very if not to powerful people, and good strategies with their different combat abilities.

Crado
I honestly think it would be Luke and Jacen.

Darth Martin
Originally posted by kamikz
Most powerful I would say is Luke at his best, and DE Sidious, for being the best sith, and having the awefully destructive force storm!

Best team work would probably be Anakin and Obi-Wan, seeing as they got a plan for almost every situation, an approach to very if not to powerful people, and good strategies with their different combat abilities. Fair enough, but what about Boba and Jango?

kamikz
Well he lost his father early, so I doubt they'd have much info. If they did however, I bet they'd be quite dangerous, probably in the top 10.



@Crado, I belive that Sidious is more capable than Jacen in an all out fight. He got nearly every single technique that is made, and has made his own. I really doubt nearly anyone can block his force storm, so if Luke holds them off he could launch it and send almost anyone to hell. Also, if the opponents haven't got knowledge of his techniques, they are going to fall.

Jacen might be stronger and all, but Sidious knowledge and storm would make me put him above Jacen. But of course, it is all a matter of choice, so it doesn't really matter....

Crado
I've really wanted to address this. It seems that people on this forum like to lie about things like this, I know what quote you're referring to that people seem to have lied about. The actual quote is 'it is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure'.



And about the storm, in dispute to what Escape has tried to pass off as fact, there is no evidence that the force storm can be utilised by Sidious on a small scale, and considering the nature of the attack and the fact that Sidious can't even control them perfectly, it's more probable that he can't rather than can.

Gideon
Kamikz said "nearly" not all. And the 'it is believed' is coming from an omniscient narrarator. So, let's see. Mastering nearly all the known old ones, previously unknown, and new ones that he invents? Um... I'd pretty much say, yeah, his knowledge supercedes any other Sith Lord.




The only instance in which Sidious hasn't been in control of his Force storm is when Luke, Leia, and Anakin interfered with it. Unless you can cite another example, I don't see why - otherwise - he can't control them fine.

Antaeus
In a fight I will vote for Sidious and Darth Vader as the best on the list.

Gideon
In a fight? Ehh... I'm feelin' for Yoda and Mace.

Crado
I wasn't so much directly addressing Kamikz, more the lies that have been flying around the forum. It was all cool when the Ancients were considered > everyone, but Sidious is no longer the underrated, so I really wanted to address this.

And nice way of misinterpreting the statement.

1. It is believed - clearly referring to in story characters, who are not infallible, unless you want to argue that it is believed by the executives at Lucasarts (LOL!).

2. that he has mastered nearly all the known powers - nearly all, not every.

3. previously unknown powers - no quantity is assigned.

4. and devises new ones at his pleasure - no quantity is assigned.

However point 1 pretty much renders points 2 - 4 invalid.



http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/2095/starwarsdarkempire0628mq8.th.jpg

"he now boasts to Luke that he has perfect control of his force storms! Whether such boasts are true or not (they are not)" - from the endnotes of Dark Empire #6, this pretty much settles the matter, he cannot perfectly control them.

Crado
QED mother****er, I see you ignored the rest of my points, does this mean that you can't make an argument for Sidious' Force Storms working on a small scale?

Alkaselzer
Way to be an ass.

Gideon
Considering all the arguments that you've made as Nebaris, Dessel, and now Crado - I don't think I need to take much effort to insult or belittle your intelligence.

The quote was provided by an omniscient narrarator. That he knows nearly all (which can be inferred to mean a considerable majority) techniques, ones that are previously unknown, and ones that he himself events at his leisure, it would mean that, overall, his knowledge surpasses any known Sith Lord we've encountered.

Unless, once again, you may provide me with a Sith Lord who knows more.



Would you like this to attribute to your third ban?

Blue_Hefner
Yoda/Mace

Crado
You forgot Kas'im, yeah that's right, the guy you called 'an exceptional debater'.



Did you ignore the "it is believed"? The omniscient narrator says it is believed, he doesn't just factually state it.

kamikz
Then who belives such? Are they so wrong to belive it? Since when has "people" randomly belived a sith to know nearly every single technique anyway?

Gideon
At debating specific issues. Such as Kas'im himself. Or Bane. In anything else? Hardly.



I think I made it quite clear that I didn't ignore it.

Crado
Funny how I destroyed you in the Occlumency debate.



Well you replied to less than half of my original points? Why is that?

Gideon
No, what's funny is that you're the only one who thinks that.

Don't get cocky. As I recall, no one considered you any good. No one, regardless of what account you used.



I replied to everything that needed to be dealt with. The rest is just garbage that I've argued against before, and coming from you? I don't think I need to dignify anything with a response.

Crado
Yet you never replied to my last post, that is the post that completely owned your pitiful argument, and then a day later, you label me as an 'exceptional debater'. I think it's pretty clear that you knew that you lost.

Don't get cocky. As I recall, no one considered you any good. No one, regardless of what account you used.

Except, you apparently.



http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t426256.html



Nice excuse!

Gideon
Like I said, at debating Kas'im, you were one hell of a debator.



I responded to what you put down, Nebaris. If I may quote Dark Empire I: "It was to the Rebel Alliance's detriment that not only could he control these wormholes, but he could create them."

Page 153 of Dark Empire I on http://swtimeline.ru

The only time he wasn't able to control them was when Luke/Leia/Anakin pooled their power to stop him.

Crado
laughing laughing
You're coming of really silly here Gideon, debating ability doesn't go up or down as you switch from topic to topic, it stays the same. You labelled me as an 'exceptional debater', period. So no, you can't just get out of this one by making a petty remark about my intelligence, when you've actually already once stated that I am in fact a 'very good debater'. So yes, I think you can either reply to every point, or concede the ones that you haven't replied to.



I never argued that he couldn't control them, I argued (and proved) that he couldn't perfectly control them. If you knew how to read, you would know this.

kamikz
Becuse someone mentions it once, does that mean it is set in stone? Hell no, he could have taken you for a good debator of the small parts he had seen, as he said, he didn't know you well, and apparently he thought that you weren't as good when debating normal cases, because you had more knowledge of Kas'Im. So you can't tell him what to think, only he can, so stop trying to argue that he thinks you're good, because HE DOESN'T...

Crado
This is just you being unperceptive, and buying into his excuses. Did it not ever occur to you that by labelling me as a bad debater, and then saying that my points were so illogical that they didn't deserve a response, that he was creating an excuse for him not to reply, simply because he was losing?

The fact is, he labelled me as an 'exceptional debater' before I had ever made a single argument for Kas'im, in fact, it was a day after I beat him in the Occlumency debate - completely unrelated to SW, so what does that tell you?

And for the record, I don't really care if I'm rated or not (and I'm not going to lie, I think Escape is good, but he hasn't been in this argument), I'm only arguing this point so he doesn't have an excuse to not reply to the earlier argument, because it's an argument that I'm pretty dedicated to winning, as it's tiring seeing in every DE Sidious thread that he wins because of his force storm.


The point is, there is no evidence that Sidious can use them on a small scale, and logic dictates otherwise, therefor he can't do them by default in the context of versus fights.

kamikz
I cannot take either of your words, cause you say you won, he say you didn't, some other bystanders should say who won and who lost. And still, the thing I'm saying here is that he does not think of you as a good debator now, so anything he has said in the past, is in the past. So you cannot really chose what he is to think.

Crado
Put it this way, we were both having an intense debate, he was replying to fewer and fewer of my points as the debate progressed, he eventually stopped replying and left the debate, and then the next day, he labels me as an 'exceptional debater'.Doesn't take a genius to work out who won the debate now does it?

Anyways, you've most likely read the HP books yourself, out of curiosity (just want to hear your opinion, not start an off topic debate), do you think Occlumency requires any innate magical ability?



I can't actually believe you would buy his excuses, it's pretty clear that he has no argument, so he's stating that I'm somewhat inept at debating so he has an excuse to not reply, because he quite frankly cannot do so. I was just pointing out that he's clearly lying as he has constantly stated in the past that I was good, and there would be no reason for his opinions to change too drastically since.

kamikz
Well he probably has another way of seeing it, or a totally different story. Care to show the thread?

And buying his excuse? I don't see how his opinion is an excuse, it was he who stated you were an exeptional debator, it was he who stated you weren't, I think he can make that decision best on his own. However, doesn't mean you are either of the things, but if it's his opinion he can change it whenever.


Sorry, my HP knowledge is lacking! Don't know what Occlumency is...

Crado
His excuse was that he didn't believe that my posts were deserving of a reply, because I was such a bad debater. That is clearly an excuse for him to not reply, otherwise he would have to continue arguing a flawed point, or concede the point, neither of which he wanted to do. If you honestly believe that he's being genuine, and he really does have the ability to destroy all of my disputing points, but is choosing not to because he doesn't consider me worthy of a reply, than you really are truly bad at reading people.



Consider the fact that he was the one who chose to stop replying, and then labelled me as an 'exceptional' debater the next day...

Here's where the debate began. http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=405188&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=120

kamikz
If I don't know the debt of the thing you debate, and I don't know how anything played out, and I can only go from you two's different opinons, then I can only choose who is most likley to tell the truth, and from what I've seen, you've been banned over 6 times, you lied about books on Star Wars to get your point through, while Escape probably hasn't even gotten a warning and mostly gets his points through. I would trust him more, and thus I would go with him...

Anyway, one single debate doesn't mean shit to be honest, and it is his opinion, you seem to get stuck on the point that he once called you an exeptional debator (which I never found), when he now says you are not. If he has said it in the past doesn't mean he can't say it now. Anyway, let's stop this, it is off topic anyway. Sorry for continuing....

Prodigal Knight
I just have a question on the poll. Who do you mean by Other? If you're asking who's the best duo, do you mean Master Apprentice or something of that sort? Because I could say LOTF Luke and LOTF Jacen, who could own everything in their path! Or I could LOTF Luke and LOTF Kyp Durron who could smash Yoda and Mace.

But I would say Yoda and Mace are very good....so they may take this among the given choices.

Prodigal Knight
True, I have won certain debates against individuals before. However, just because of that I don't consider myself superior.

And yes, kamikz has a point. Escape considered you to be good in the past, but now apparently he feels otherwise. This could be for many reasons, but yes.

Anyway, this is stupid to talk about. Both of you should discuss this privately.

kamikz
^

Crado
Originally posted by kamikz
you've been banned over 6 times,

3 times!



When?



'Cause he kisses butt.



He lies and is biased.



You've already showed yourself to be very bad at reading people, so this doesn't really mean much.



This is true, I haven't argued with the fact that opinions can change, but it really doesn't take a genius to work out that his excuses are completely ingenuine, just read through the whole thread, you will see. I can actually prove this, so just try me if you still buy into his excuses.

And I can recall three times where he has labelled me as such, but that doesn't matter because I already posted the exact quote and link where he called me a 'very good debater' which is as good for me as 'exceptional' anyway.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t426256.html

Crado
Who may I ask, because you once blurted out that you drew with Advent, when it's pretty clear that you didn't.



Anyways Quinlan, the whole point wasn't so I could have a big argument about my debating skills, who's better out of me or Escape and all that bs, like you seem to think, and like Kamikz seems to think even though I've said otherwise to him like ten times. I honestly don't care how people rate me, the whole purpose of starting the discussion was that me and Escape were originally in a SW debate, and I'm pretty confident I was winning, and then he came up with the excuse that my arguments weren't worth a response because I was a 'proven idiot', and then he chose not to reply. I was pretty dedicated to winning the argument due to the fact that it is tiring to see everybody post that Sidious wins in every thread because he can use his force storm, when in fact he can't, and I was trying to make this clear to everyone in this thread so people would actually know the truth, so the fact that he just left is pretty annoying, I mean at least concede. Anyways, this whole off topic debate was to prove that his excuses were bs, and that he clearly had no argument.

Prodigal Knight
Well....I guess you do have a point somewhat.....

kamikz
Originally posted by Crado
3 times!



When?



'Cause he kisses butt.



He lies and is biased.



You've already showed yourself to be very bad at reading people, so this doesn't really mean much.



This is true, I haven't argued with the fact that opinions can change, but it really doesn't take a genius to work out that his excuses are completely ingenuine, just read through the whole thread, you will see. I can actually prove this, so just try me if you still buy into his excuses.

And I can recall three times where he has labelled me as such, but that doesn't matter because I already posted the exact quote and link where he called me a 'very good debater' which is as good for me as 'exceptional' anyway.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t426256.html


Whatever... stick out tongue

And he doesn't lie..... You did that vs me, we were arguing Maul vs Mace, and you said there was a book that described how Sora and Mace made Vaapad, and that he had made it before TPM, but that was a lie, because there is no book named "brothers of swords"....


Lol, because I disagree with you I suck at reading people? Mhm...

And wth, you're stuck on one single quote, "your a good debator", so what, care to actually acknowledge that he also said, "bad debator"? Shouldn't that even out the whole deal?

Crado
He does lie...

Escape: Sidious possesses more knowledge of the force than any other sith lord. 'he has mastered all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure'.

^=lie.



FTW! I never said that, what are you chatting about?



When he said that I was a good debater, there would have been no reason for him to lie.

When he said that I was a bad debater, he had a reason to lie.

So no, it doesn't quite even it out, though I will admit that my skillz are as extreme as they get.

Gideon
I don't lie in my debates, Nebaris. The line came from an omniscient narrarator - I used it. The line was also provided to me by Lightsnake. Though, as it seems, Kamikz seems to think that you have lied in a debate before. Curious coincidence...

As for the whole Occulumency debate, just who thought that you won? Given that the whole technique is a magical art, and that no Muggle has ever been shown defying Legilimency, it is logical to deduce that one must have magical power in order to master it. And some considerable skill at that, given that most wizards are unable to utilize it.

As for you being a good debator, once again, Kas'im and you may be the same person - but you argued differently. You did well when you argued for Kas'im or Darth Bane, but other than that, I have never praised you for your abilities. In fact, as I recall, you carried the same flaw that you do in all other usernames that you come here with. You are cocky, and you attempt to pass off your opinions as fact.

And, finally, as for the discrepency regarding Sidious's Force storms. Dark Empire explains that he can control them, and then it also says that he can't. There is an easy way to settle that. It is obvious that Sidious loses control of the Force Storms when he faces an opponent/s of immense strength in the light side of the Force, such as the Force pooling of three Skywalkers, who possess among the highest connections to the Force itself.

Other than that, he has never been shown to err in his control of them. He can even adjust their purpose, to destroy - or to teleport Luke. I would assume that that takes considerable control.

In regards to him using it in a versus fight, it is highly possible, though I will grant you that he would be unable to do it in certain arenas, without killing himself - and if he knew that he were going to be beaten, he'd likely do that, if only to kill his opponent.

Prodigal Knight
The basic point is WHO CARES!!! If Nebaris or Escape want to lie, then go ahead, lie people, but then others won't take you seriously and think you suck then. Nebaris, Escape is right as you debate well in Kas'Im and Bane threads. And Nebaris, several witnesses have declared you of lying. Guilty you are on this. And Escape, you have been known to say "oh i'm not to argue this, its pointless" when you are the middle of a heated debate. But does it matter? Argue this in a PM if you guys want, don't spam the thread.

kamikz
Originally posted by Crado
He does lie...

Escape: Sidious possesses more knowledge of the force than any other sith lord. 'he has mastered all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure'.

^=lie.



FTW! I never said that, what are you chatting about?



When he said that I was a good debater, there would have been no reason for him to lie.

When he said that I was a bad debater, he had a reason to lie.

So no, it doesn't quite even it out, though I will admit that my skillz are as extreme as they get.


I think Escape put it best himself, he didn't lie, he just got one single word of the line wrong and it wasn't even in this debate, in this debate he stated that Sidious posses more knowledge than any other sith,
and Sidious does posses more knowledge than any sith lord....


Yes you have, it was a pretty decently long time ago, so I wouldn't blaim you not for remembering.


Oh really? Maybe he wanted to be nice to you? Or maybe you debate good in that thread only and made it seem like you were good. (Since he himself replied he "didn't know you" but you seemed to be good there). Either way, this isn't relevant, and I don't care, you might be good, or you might be bad, I haven't checked latley and I don't plan to either. But you should take it into account what other people say, you cannot decide sorley for yourself if you're a good debator, often other people will notice, so maybe if you ask around if you really want to know.

Crado
OMFG!!! How can you not get this yet? I don't give a flying fvck whether I'm good or not, the whole point was that Escape was clearly making excuses by saying that I was such a bad debater that I wasn't worthy of a response, and I was just showing that he has stated me to be good many times in the past, thereby making it pretty obvious that his excuses were ingenuine, meaning that he was looking for an easy way out of the argument without conceding, because he was losing. I mean it's pretty funny how he suddenly finds me to be bad when and only when it gets him out of a tricky situation.

And people have said that I'm good before (Escape, Darth Sith, Prodigal Knight to name a few), however that's not the point, I don't give a feck either way, you just seem to think that I'm fishing for compliments, if so than you missed the entire point of our discussion, and I've explained myself pretty clearly already so whatever.



I never stated that, I never would have reason to because I don't believe it anyway, you're wrong. And even if I did, ever think that I might have just made a mistake?



It's pretty obvious that he lied, he's done it in the past for Sidious.

kamikz
Originally posted by Crado
OMFG!!! How can you not get this yet? I don't give a flying fvck whether I'm good or not, the whole point was that Escape was clearly making excuses by saying that I was such a bad debater that I wasn't worthy of a response, and I was just showing that he has stated me to be good many times in the past, thereby making it pretty obvious that his excuses were ingenuine, meaning that he was looking for an easy way out of the argument without conceding, because he was losing. I mean it's pretty funny how he suddenly finds me to be bad when and only when it gets him out of a tricky situation.

And people have said that I'm good before (Escape, Darth Sith, Prodigal Knight to name a few), however that's not the point, I don't give a feck either way, you just seem to think that I'm fishing for compliments, if so than you missed the entire point of our discussion, and I've explained myself pretty clearly already so whatever.



I never stated that, I never would have reason to because I don't believe it anyway, you're wrong. And even if I did, ever think that I might have just made a mistake?



It's pretty obvious that he lied, he's done it in the past for Sidious.


Zomg, OMFG!!!!
...................................................

Oh then take a look at the first ****ing page. Escape said he didn't even need to belittle your intelligence, THEN HE ANSWERED TO YOUR POST. How the hell do you say that he didn't answere AT ALL? Do you not get that he answered to everything that needed to be answered? You don't need to adress to every single point ever made in a post, just the ones that are important, and as Escape said, the rest was "pure garbage".


That's from YOUR point of view. Last time I checked, you weren't inside Escape's head. I didn't even find the quote that said you were a good debator, AND EVEN IF HE DID SAY THAT, THAT DOESN'T MEAN SHIT, BECAUSE IT WAS NOT BECAUSE YOU YOURSELF WAS A SUCKY DEBATOR THAT HE DIDN'T ANSWERE, IT WAS BECAUSE HALF OF THE POST WAS IRRELEVANT. The actual thing that Escape noted was NOT that he wouldn't reply because you had sucked in previous debates (don't know where you got this), he perfectly said that he didn't "need to belittle your intelligence", the points in your post he answered to normally. This cannot get more clear....





Yes, yes you did. And how can you get it wrong when you state the name of a non exsistant book that no one else in the entire forum knew about? And you even admitted it afterwards when we caught you!


No, as he said, he only got the quote from LS, and so did I, still I said nearly all here and so did Escape!







Anyway, this is pointless and off topic, I won't answere one more time. So no need to reply, and even if you do, I WON'T ANSWERE.

Crado
Originally posted by Gideon
The rest is just garbage that I've argued against before, and coming from you? I don't think I need to dignify anything with a response.

ZOMG Kamikz, what's this^?

And he actually missed out the more vital part of the debate, and that was that whether Sidious could utilise his force storms on a small scale.

Crado
Stop lying, now!



I only fvcking posted it twice!

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t426256.html
^Review the bottom post.



Does this even make sense? no expression

Crado
Provide proof, or stfu!!

Darth Martin
Topic!

Crado
Originally posted by Strawman
I don't lie in my debates, Nebaris.

BS!!
'Luke has as much potential as Anakin', much?
'Force Storm can be used on a small scale', much?
'Sidious has mastered every known technique, much?



Keep repeating that it came from an omniscient narrator Gideon, even though it's irrelevant because of the 'it is believed', but keep doing it by all means.



You lied Gid, don't try and get out of it.



And it's bs! I'll eat my words if one person provides proof that I have.



Clearly you, considering you labelled me as an 'exceptional debater' the very next day, and refused to continue the debate.



So is fvcking Potion Making!! Does that require innate magical ability?



Muggles don't even fecking know that wizards exist, they know jack about legilimency, what the **** is your point?



No, it isn't! All it requires is having a strong will.



I'm not saying it's easy, a strong will is a rare thing, but it doesn't require magical power.



No, we didn't. And even if that's true, I argued my best on this topic, so if you choose to reply to what you originally ignored, you would still be replying to the same exceptional debater.



I had never even argued against you for ****ing Kas'im or Bane by the time that you wrote that, and you were partially basing that original assessment off of debating me yourself, and guess what? The said debate was the one on Occlumency, completely unrelated to ****ing SW.



Coming from the fecking 'logic hound'?



Escape81: Occlumency requires innate magical ability.
Escape81: Sidious can perfectly control his force storms.
Escape81: Sidious can utilise his force storms on a small scale.
Escape81: Anakin > Dooku.



I never ****ing argued that he couldn't control them, I just stated that his control hadn't reached perfection.



Thank you!!!
Conceding a point, for once!

kamikz
Originally posted by Crado
Stop lying, now!



I only fvcking posted it twice!

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t426256.html
^Review the bottom post.



Does this even make sense? no expression


Yup, it does.

Now I think the best team would probably be either Luke or DE Sids, or it would be Luke or Jacen.


And sorry, but I just had to remark this. You constantly bring up that he called you a good debator and that he wouldn't lie in that state, but if you look RIGHT UNDER THAT, he say this....
"But you pull stuff out of your ass and try to pass it off as if it has some bearing on the argument".

Now he would have no reason to lie about that either now would he?

Gideon
It was Lightsnake who pioneered the whole "Luke's potential equals that of Anakin's", due to a quote from an interview with George Lucas. I may have repeated that a few times, but you'll notice that I do not do so now, as Advent and others have pointed out the glaring discrepencies.

As for the Force Storm technique, it is logical to assume that that could happen - as the Force Storm that Sidious manipulated on Coruscant and the one he used against the New Republic fleet varied in size and in purpose.

Finally, as for the Sidious mastered every technique, we've been through this.



Please. Because you dictate that it is irrelevent means absolutely nothing to me.



Oh, yes... I'm such a devious person. I do nothing but lie in my arguments. Everything I say is a blatant deception to further along my ridiculous arguments.



Ah. It's BS because someone said that you lie. I see.



I see. You're assuming? That's nice. The entire basis for "I pwned Escape81 at Occulumency!!!1111!1" is because you are assuming that I think you won the debate? Okay... lol. I refused to continue the debate because you were as rigid as I was in my belief, and I no longer continued the debate because:

a.) It was off topic, and we were asked to stop.
b.) If I couldn't convince you then, I wasn't going to, so I felt that there was no point in continuing.

?

Someone's getting upset... Potion Making is taught in magical school because the knowledge of potion making is strictly maintained by wizards and wizards alone, and only they know the adequete techniques.



Well, clearly, if a strong mind is all that's required - several Muggles should possess the skill.



Then there should be many, many wizards in Harry Potter who have mastered it.



Strong will is a rare thing? Perhaps not extremely common, but I wouldn't exactly say that it is rare. And, once again, if that is the case - than Harry (who resisted the Imperius Curse from Lord Voldemort himself) should have mastered the art fairly easily.



Oh, yes, you do argue differently. Kas'im was a fairly pleasant debator, who - while limited in what he could debate - debated it well.



Am I touching a nerve?

Perhaps you could realize that I read your arguments against others? wink

You're assuming, again. Remember what assuming can make out of you and me? Well, in this case, just you... but...



Coming from the guy who says that his skills are as "extreme" as they get? Please.



You've yet to prove differently.



He can - 'til a powerful collective of light side energy confronts him. Again, have you yet to prove differently? smile



Have you yet to prove differently? He can not only perfectly control the Storms on average, but he can also control their purpose: teleportation or destruction. And, as I said, the storm he used against the fleet differs in size from the one on Coruscant.



I will likewise turn a question to you that Zephiel threw in my face. Where you not reading?

Anakin is greater than Dooku. Zephiel didn't deny that, and he couldn't deny that. Anakin has fa more power. He is the superior fighter. Dooku only was winning due to his psychological advantage, but that does not make him the stronger fighter or the more powerful combatant.

Anakin was both. Like I told him. Anakin, tapping into the dark side, is greater and far more powerful than this "all-mighty", "near invincible" Dark Lord of the Sith (Dooku), and wiped him out with unspeakable ease once Sidious gave him some advice.

Lucas confirmed it: Anakin was stronger.



The only time his control failed him was, again, when Luke/Leia/Anakin interfered - which Dark Empire was logically referring to.



Oh, I've done it before.

Crado
You conveniently left out that you fecking refused to continue the debate via PM! Mother****er!!



That same ****ing explanation can be applied to Occlumency, dumbass!! The knowledge of legilimency and how to defend against it is strictly maintained by Wizards.



Extreme as in inconsistent, dumbass.

^I'll reply to the rest of this bs tomorrow, I look forward to it, there are many flaws in your argument.

kamikz
Calm the hell down. Gees, someone needs to get laid!


(A joke, don't freak!)

Gideon
I think I did touch a nerve. no expression

kamikz
Ah damn, I'm gonna take a shot tomorrow at the hospital, don't say that! ^ sad

Darth Martin
I'd say either Vader and Sidious or Anakin and Obi Wan.

Rampant ox
What do you mean by 'Best' Duo? If it means strongest then i would probably say that Mace and Yoda would take the cake.

But if it mean best duo as in who works the best together then it would have to be either Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan or Han Solo/Chewbacca. Qui-Gon and co I think worked the best together and had the most respect for each other out of anyone. As oppose to, say, Anakin/Obi-Wan who worked well together, but were jealous of each others abilities and were always bickering.

Han Solo and co also worked great together and saved each others lives on numerous occasions. They had a huge amount of respect for each other and I dont remember ever seeing them argue. Also note Cewies loyalty to han when he tries choking Lando to death.

Kadesh
what about malak and revan, before kotor.

This what malak stated in kotor about being revans biatch

Originally posted by Darth Malak
Im his biatch and i never felt it


Wow that pretty small dont you think

kamikz
Originally posted by Rampant ox
What do you mean by 'Best' Duo? If it means strongest then i would probably say that Mace and Yoda would take the cake.

But if it mean best duo as in who works the best together then it would have to be either Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan or Han Solo/Chewbacca. Qui-Gon and co I think worked the best together and had the most respect for each other out of anyone. As oppose to, say, Anakin/Obi-Wan who worked well together, but were jealous of each others abilities and were always bickering.

Han Solo and co also worked great together and saved each others lives on numerous occasions. They had a huge amount of respect for each other and I dont remember ever seeing them argue. Also note Cewies loyalty to han when he tries choking Lando to death.


No, neither Obi nor Anakin was jealous? (Or at least I don't think so). Obi-Wan was always the one trying to convince everyone he was the chosen one, admitted him better than he could ever dream of, and was proud of him, while Anakin on the other hand, was already better than Obi, thus had nothing to be jealous about. In combat, their tactics were supreme.


Now, I agree, Chewie and Han were a damn good duo, but in combat, I can't see them doing anything but shoot, which wouldn't require much tactics, Obi and Ani had almost a solution to every possible task, and worked awerfully well in combat together!

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