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All out battle.

WHo can put the other down.

Marvel Vs. DC rules apply.

IM is badass, but i don't see how he could get past Jugg's forcefield.

Unless the inifinity man has telepathy, there's not a lot he can do to juggernaut- jugs is pretty much invulnerable to physical trauma, especially if he uses the forcefield. Infinity man does not have this advantage. At best, this is a stalemate, at worst, given a long enough timeline (years? centuries?) this is a loss for infinity man.

Juggs has been hit before right? I'm sure IM has enough strength to get past the force field. If I remember correctly, it's not a true force field like sue richards or magneto's, but rather an inertia dampening field. Which means sufficient force behind a punch or projectile will still get thru it. Hell Firestar got past it with her blast. Surely others can.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Juggs has been hit before right? I'm sure IM has enough strength to get past the force field. If I remember correctly, it's not a true force field like sue richards or magneto's, but rather an inertia dampening field. Which means sufficient force behind a punch or projectile will still get thru it. Hell Firestar got past it with her blast. Surely others can.

you remember wrong. The field will stop dead pretty much anything, but it's rarely used. It's not always on (most writers forget about it...thus the firestar thing) but when it is...nothing gets past it.

as for brute force, Juggernaut has taken hits from the most powerful heroes in marvel without slowing down. this includes a hulk enhanced with celestial tech.

He's taken a full force godforce blast head on WITHOUT the force field and THAT couldn't stop him.

Add to that the most powerful healing factor in marvel an unlimited stamina, and you're going to need more than just hits to put him down.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
you remember wrong. The field will stop dead pretty much anything, but it's rarely used. It's not always on (most writers forget about it...thus the firestar thing) but when it is...nothing gets past it.

as for brute force, Juggernaut has taken hits from the most powerful heroes in marvel without slowing down. this includes a hulk enhanced with celestial tech.

He's taken a full force godforce blast head on WITHOUT the force field and THAT couldn't stop him.

Add to that the most powerful healing factor in marvel an unlimited stamina, and you're going to need more than just hits to put him down.

Well IM certainly has more than Punches. He's got all sorts of powers including Top tier telepathy. But I don't even see him using that. I see them pounding each other for a good long time. BUt I do remember The reason Thor's hammer slowed down was becuz the force field was an inertial dampener. IT said it right on panel. It's the reason the hammer slowed down and juggs was able to grab it and fly back to thor. Had it been a real force field like people try to make it, the hammer would have bounced off of it at full speed.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Well IM certainly has more than Punches. He's got all sorts of powers including Top tier telepathy. But I don't even see him using that. I see them pounding each other for a good long time. BUt I do remember The reason Thor's hammer slowed down was becuz the force field was an inertial dampener. IT said it right on panel. It's the reason the hammer slowed down and juggs was able to grab it and fly back to thor. Had it been a real force field like people try to make it, the hammer would have bounced off of it at full speed.

the hammer would do whatever the writer/artist wanted it to do. As the field has been used as an OFFENSIVE weapon before, it's obviously not strictly an inertial dampener. He's used it to push BACK opponents and objects before, which wouldn't be possible if that were the case. nice try though.

When did the infinity man gain telepathy? that's news to me.

edit: it occurs to me the infinity man died/was stalemated while fighting devilance. Devilance got decapitated and killed by LOBO. If that's an indication of his strength/durability, he isn't going to go far against the juggernaut.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
the hammer would do whatever the writer/artist wanted it to do. As the field has been used as an OFFENSIVE weapon before, it's obviously not strictly an inertial dampener. He's used it to push BACK opponents and objects before, which wouldn't be possible if that were the case. nice try though.

When did the infinity man gain telepathy? that's news to me.

edit: it occurs to me the infinity man died/was stalemated while fighting devilance. Devilance got decapitated and killed by LOBO. If that's an indication of his strength/durability, he isn't going to go far against the juggernaut.

IM is one of few beings that DS fears. IM has also shown that he is far above Superman in strength. He can do things with ease that SUperman couldn't do with all his might. IM also has all of the For Ever people's powers magnified and amplied. He also gets new powers. And one of the Forever People is Beautiful Dreamer, a high tier telepath.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
the hammer would do whatever the writer/artist wanted it to do. As the field has been used as an OFFENSIVE weapon before, it's obviously not strictly an inertial dampener. He's used it to push BACK opponents and objects before, which wouldn't be possible if that were the case. nice try though.

When did the infinity man gain telepathy? that's news to me.

edit: it occurs to me the infinity man died/was stalemated while fighting devilance. Devilance got decapitated and killed by LOBO. If that's an indication of his strength/durability, he isn't going to go far against the juggernaut.

Actually AN inertial dampener would be able to push back opponents and Objects. the earths Inertial field pushes back on objects. it's the reason they burn up on entry. Nice try tho. It's an inertial field. Not a force field. and it said so right on panel.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Actually AN inertial dampener would be able to push back opponents and Objects. the earths Inertial field pushes back on objects. it's the reason they burn up on entry. Nice try tho. It's an inertial field. Not a force field. and it said so right on panel.

Wow, that's INCREDIBLY wrong, "nevertookascienceclass." Objects burn up on re-entry due to friction with the atmosphere, not the earth's "inertial field." the earth has no "inertial field" that pushes back on objects, quite the opposite it has a gravitational PULL which attracts them.

I can't even give you a "nice try" there, because that was so...WOW.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Wow, that's INCREDIBLY wrong, "nevertookascienceclass." Objects burn up on re-entry due to friction with the atmosphere, not the earth's "inertial field." the earth has no "inertial field" that pushes back on objects, quite the opposite it has a gravitational PULL which attracts them.

I can't even give you a "nice try" there, because that was so...WOW.

Actually there is an inertial field. Friction is part of the field. try again. Friction makes up the inertial field. Maybe you should try harder.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Wow, that's INCREDIBLY wrong, "nevertookascienceclass." Objects burn up on re-entry due to friction with the atmosphere, not the earth's "inertial field." the earth has no "inertial field" that pushes back on objects, quite the opposite it has a gravitational PULL which attracts them.

I can't even give you a "nice try" there, because that was so...WOW.

edit: oh, and per marvel.com, it's a force field.

Besides giving him vast superhuman strength, the mystical energy of Cyttorak gave the Juggernaut an extraordinary degree of resistance to all forms of injury. The Juggernaut could also shield himself even further from injury by mentally surrounding himself with a force field. Enveloped by this field, the Juggernaut had been seen to survive the fiery explosion of a truck transporting a huge quantity of oil without any injury whatsoever. The Juggernaut could survive indefinitely without food, water, or oxygen thanks to his being sustained by his mystical energies alone.

double edit: I really don't have anything to say to you if you don't understand the concepts of "friction", "inertia, and "gravity."

Inertia is the property of an object to resist changes in velocity unless acted upon by an outside force. nothing to do with friction.

The moon has a gravitational pull, but no atmosphere, which is why things don't burn up on entry/reentry with the moon (notice how the moon has numerous craters?) but they DO with the earth. There is no such thing as an "inertial field" that causes things to burn up on re-entry.

I'd continue to debate, but it seems counterproductive to do so with someone with such a loose grasp of basic scientific concepts.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
edit: oh, and per marvel.com, it's a force field.

Besides giving him vast superhuman strength, the mystical energy of Cyttorak gave the Juggernaut an extraordinary degree of resistance to all forms of injury. The Juggernaut could also shield himself even further from injury by mentally surrounding himself with a force field. Enveloped by this field, the Juggernaut had been seen to survive the fiery explosion of a truck transporting a huge quantity of oil without any injury whatsoever. The Juggernaut could survive indefinitely without food, water, or oxygen thanks to his being sustained by his mystical energies alone.

And in the end, the comic said it was an inertial force field. It described the properties of such force field and how it worked.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And in the end, the comic said it was an inertial force field. It described the properties of such force field and how it worked.

how the field is described is HIGHLY dependent on the writer. It's been depicted as an offensive weapon, an "inertia dampening" field, AND a pure force field. if you read more comics and less online scans, you'd know this. PER MARVEL, the "force field" description is currently canon. End of story. unless of course, you work at marvel and are able to change this...but I find that...unlikely.

I'm with nvr, with a few exceptions of course.

Juggernaut's forcefield only slowed it down. The hammer still hit him.
Thanos stopped it dead in its tracks.
What other time has his field ever been used to say it is inpierceable?

Based on this Juggernaut's field logic, Thanos has a stronger force field than him, and if Juggernaut's is invincible, than that stands to reason that Thanos's is even more so.
But we all know Thanos's has been pierced.

Really, there is no showing that supports this invincible shield argument. It's been pierced, get over it.
Thus means, that if IM does have telepathy, he could break his shield (what proof is there that Juggernaut even uses his shield, and why would he use it here?) and mindrape him.

Look, here is Thor getting through.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/jj3.gif
Notice the hammer "Toonk" him.

Now where has it been shown that his shield is invincible?

Originally posted by bigbran
I'm with nvr, with a few exceptions of course.

Juggernaut's forcefield only slowed it down. The hammer still hit him.
Thanos stopped it dead in its tracks.
What other time has his field ever been used to say it is inpierceable?

Based on this Juggernaut's field logic, Thanos has a stronger force field than him, and if Juggernaut's is invincible, than that stands to reason that Thanos's is even more so.
But we all know Thanos's has been pierced.

Really, there is no showing that supports this invincible shield argument. It's been pierced, get over it.
Thus means, that if IM does have telepathy, he could break his shield (what proof is there that Juggernaut even uses his shield, and why would he use it here?) and mindrape him.

Look, here is Thor getting through.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/jj3.gif
Notice the hammer "Toonk" him.

Now where has it been shown that his shield is invincible?

How the field is depicted varies greatly from writer to writer. in this particular instance, it's depicted as being passive and extending a GREAT distance from his body. this isn't always the case.

I didn't say it was totally impenatrable- its known that magical items of sufficient strength will pierce it. (Thor's hammer is, wait for it...MAGIC! as are shatterstar's swords which cut juggy up in Xforce) the debate was whether it was strictly an inertial dampening field, or an active "force" field. Not whether it was 100% invulnerable to everything.

also: nice argument re: Thanos, but I don't see how his field is even relevant here. One is magical, one is science/energy based, and Juggernaut's powers originate from Cyttorak, who is WAY, WAY past Thanos in power level.

double edit: I still can't find anything that gives "telepathy" as being within IM's powerset, but that may be a moot point as Jug's helmet is magically bonded to the armor also...

Originally posted by Space M ummy
How the field is depicted varies greatly from writer to writer. in this particular instance, it's depicted as being passive and extending a GREAT distance from his body. this isn't always the case.

I didn't say it was totally impenatrable- its known that magical items of sufficient strength will pierce it. (Thor's hammer is, wait for it...MAGIC! as are shatterstar's swords which cut juggy up in Xforce) the debate was whether it was strictly an inertial dampening field, or an active "force" field. Not whether it was 100% invulnerable to everything.

also: nice argument re: Thanos, but I don't see how his field is even relevant here. One is magical, one is science/energy based, and Juggernaut's powers originate from Cyttorak, who is WAY, WAY past Thanos in power level.

double edit: I still can't find anything that gives "telepathy" as being within IM's powerset, but that may be a moot point as Jug's helmet is magically bonded to the armor also... It wasn't that far from his body.
Also I know you will like this one, because here is Thor pounding away on him, and look at what Juggs says.
http://img481.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thorxe6.jpg
Interesting, on how Thor got so close to him, and was able to hit him.
I also want to point out on how he says that his shield is impregnable, on which I have shown scans of it getting broken through earlier.

I don't know about that. When has his shield ever been tested against someone else than Thor? If he supposedly has it on all the time, then his shield has no protection over his helmet.

His force thingy that I showed scans of, is definately a shield. It slows the momentum because it is basically stopping it slowly.
If you have a rubbber bag or something, then you throw a ball at it, does that mean that the rubber bag is momentum sapping? Or is it stopping it? (don't know if this makes sence)

I like to throw Thanos into debates at random. Also I was just saying that Juggernaut's field isn't inpiercable, is all.

I'll be honest, I don't know if it is in his powerset, and I don't know too much about this guy. But I was just saying that he could possibly get through the shield, and rip off his helmet.

About his helemt being bonded. Was it bonded, when Hulk ripped it off? Was it bonded, when the X-Men rip it off, everytime they fight him?
Was it bon... I think you get the point.

Originally posted by bigbran
It wasn't that far from his body.
Also I know you will like this one, because here is Thor pounding away on him, and look at what Juggs says.
http://img481.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thorxe6.jpg
Interesting, on how Thor got so close to him, and was able to hit him.
I also want to point out on how he says that his shield is impregnable, on which I have shown scans of it getting broken through earlier.

I don't know about that. When has his shield ever been tested against someone else than Thor? If he supposedly has it on all the time, then his shield has no protection over his helmet.

His force thingy that I showed scans of, is definately a shield. It slows the momentum because it is basically stopping it slowly.
If you have a rubbber bag or something, then you throw a ball at it, does that mean that the rubber bag is momentum sapping? Or is it stopping it? (don't know if this makes sence)

I like to throw Thanos into debates at random. Also I was just saying that Juggernaut's field isn't inpiercable, is all.

I'll be honest, I don't know if it is in his powerset, and I don't know too much about this guy. But I was just saying that he could possibly get through the shield, and rip off his helmet.

About his helemt being bonded. Was it bonded, when Hulk ripped it off? Was it bonded, when the X-Men rip it off, everytime they fight him?
Was it bon... I think you get the point.

That's the thing- the shield ISNT always on. it has to be conciously activated, and a LOT of writers simply forget to use it and just have juggernaut take the hits because he can. It's not like Dr. Strange where it's perpetually on.

The helmet is mystically bonded to the armor. to get it off USUALLY requires a magic or telekinetic solution. (i.e. shatterstar's swords and longshot's knives were forged in a magic/science combination, so they worked here.)

I'm actually not sure about Hulk- I don't remember him "ripping" it off at all, to be honest.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
That's the thing- the shield ISNT always on. it has to be conciously activated, and a LOT of writers simply forget to use it and just have juggernaut take the hits because he can. It's not like Dr. Strange where it's perpetually on.

The helmet is mystically bonded to the armor. to get it off USUALLY requires a magic or telekinetic solution. (i.e. shatterstar's swords and longshot's knives were forged in a magic/science combination, so they worked here.)

I'm actually not sure about Hulk- I don't remember him "ripping" it off at all, to be honest. Doesn't really take away that it still got pierced.

Wolverine's claws were magically forged? Beast's hands and what not were magically forged?

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/Hulk3389/comic%20book%20scans/juggs.jpg

Originally posted by bigbran
I'm with nvr, with a few exceptions of course.

Juggernaut's forcefield only slowed it down. The hammer still hit him.
Thanos stopped it dead in its tracks.
What other time has his field ever been used to say it is inpierceable?

Based on this Juggernaut's field logic, Thanos has a stronger force field than him, and if Juggernaut's is invincible, than that stands to reason that Thanos's is even more so.
But we all know Thanos's has been pierced.

Really, there is no showing that supports this invincible shield argument. It's been pierced, get over it.
Thus means, that if IM does have telepathy, he could break his shield (what proof is there that Juggernaut even uses his shield, and why would he use it here?) and mindrape him.

Look, here is Thor getting through.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/jj3.gif
Notice the hammer "Toonk" him.

Now where has it been shown that his shield is invincible?
I've got to disagree with you on this this one bb. The "Toonk" took place away from his body, which leads me to believe that it DID make contact with a solid wall forcefield. Maybe he has an inertia field also(which slowed the hammer down), but the hammer made contact with something other than him in that scan.

http://img481.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thorxe6.jpg
I don't really see what this scan is supposed to prove. He says the blow doesn't even tickle, that means that he didn't feel it because of his forcefield.

Originally posted by bigbran
I'm with nvr, with a few exceptions of course.

Juggernaut's forcefield only slowed it down. The hammer still hit him.
Thanos stopped it dead in its tracks.
What other time has his field ever been used to say it is inpierceable?

Based on this Juggernaut's field logic, Thanos has a stronger force field than him, and if Juggernaut's is invincible, than that stands to reason that Thanos's is even more so.
But we all know Thanos's has been pierced.

Really, there is no showing that supports this invincible shield argument. It's been pierced, get over it.
Thus means, that if IM does have telepathy, he could break his shield (what proof is there that Juggernaut even uses his shield, and why would he use it here?) and mindrape him.

Look, here is Thor getting through.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/jj3.gif
Notice the hammer "Toonk" him.

Now where has it been shown that his shield is invincible?



do you not see the space between juggernaut and the hammer in the "toonk" picture??? how is that hitting juggernaut?



when juggernaut first broke on to the scene, his shield was depicted as rolling waves of energy basically. he had to actually conscioussly turn it off, rather than turn it on. i think he prefers contact with opponents versus having his shield on all the time.

if you ask me, he was just showing thor that IF he wanted to, he didnt have to be touched at all. most of the time, the hammer is seen bouncing directly off of juggernauts body. which would imply that he doesnt even use it most of the time.

Originally posted by KillAll
do you not see the space between juggernaut and the hammer in the "toonk" picture??? how is that hitting juggernaut?



when juggernaut first broke on to the scene, his shield was depicted as rolling waves of energy basically. he had to actually conscioussly turn it off, rather than turn it on. i think he prefers contact with opponents versus having his shield on all the time.

if you ask me, he was just showing thor that IF he wanted to, he didnt have to be touched at all. most of the time, the hammer is seen bouncing directly off of juggernauts body. which would imply that he doesnt even use it most of the time.
Actually if you look at the pic and read what juggs is saying, the field slowed the hammer down so much, that it didn't have sufficiant force behind it to hit him. IF the hammer had been in thor's hand, and thor had been using his Godly strength like when he pulled the Midgard serpant, Then thor would have pierced thru the shield. Many people have been able to hit juggs thru the shield. IM is above Thor and can hit juggs many times.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Actually if you look at the pic and read what juggs is saying, the field slowed the hammer down so much, that it didn't have sufficiant force behind it to hit him. IF the hammer had been in thor's hand, and thor had been using his Godly strength like when he pulled the Midgard serpant, Then thor would have pierced thru the shield. Many people have been able to hit juggs thru the shield. IM is above Thor and can hit juggs many times.



well, it wouldnt matter anyway because the force field isnt the source of his invulnerability...


even though it doesnt touch him. nothing has shown to get through his shield. even in the later fight thor tries (with hammer in hand) to hit juggernaut, and juggernaut says that he didnt feel it because of his "FORCE FIELD". thors godblast didnt even touch juggernaut.

i dont know what you are trying to get at anyway??? thors

Originally posted by KillAll
well, it wouldnt matter anyway because the force field isnt the source of his invulnerability...


even though it doesnt touch him. nothing has shown to get through his shield. even in the later fight thor tries (with hammer in hand) to hit juggernaut, and juggernaut says that he didnt feel it because of his "FORCE FIELD". thors godblast didnt even touch juggernaut.

i dont know what you are trying to get at anyway??? thors

Juggernaut's force field is not completely indestructible like people try to make it. It has more to do with slowing things down.