Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Who wins?

Let's see ...
Vertigo = non canon
Lucifer's prime feat: creating a universe, and he didn't do it with just his own power.
Lucifer second only to the Presence? - Pfft, in Vertigo there's been stated that there are beings above the Presence.

Lucifer looses either way ...

Are you kidding? Lucifer would destroy him, he's at Living Tribunal level.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Are you kidding? Lucifer would destroy him, he's at Living Tribunal level.
. . . My ass he is . . .

1. Lucifer's prime feat - creating a universe.

How did he do it?
He took Michael's power . . .

Lucifer + Michael = One universe
Lucifer + Michael >>>> Lucifer
One universe >>>> Lucifer

Abraxas almost destroyed the entire Multi-verse, his mere presence made it colapse . . .

Second to Presence means nothing ... Presence might have just created a lot of whimps.
It's like saying that SSJ4 Gogeta was the most powerful in his universe.
Means nothing at all . . .

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Let's see ...
Vertigo = non canon
Lucifer's prime feat: creating a universe, and he didn't do it with just his own power.
Lucifer second only to the Presence? - Pfft, in Vertigo there's been stated that there are beings above the Presence.

Lucifer looses either way ...

Vertigo is cannon wtf are you talking about

So Presence isn't the most powerful being in DC?
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=430472&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

Lucifer takes this for the major majority.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
So Presence isn't the most powerful being in DC?
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=430472&perpage=20&pagenumber=1
Stop shoving around that damn scan!

The "External Forces" he's talking about are the writers.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Stop shoving around that damn scan!

The "External Forces" he's talking about are the writers.

So ...
TOAA = DC Writer
Presence 2nd = Living Tribunal 2nd

Nah, not even that, since Vertigo is a universe.
Lucifer copyed the creation, and made one universe.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
So ...
TOAA = DC Writer
Presence 2nd = Living Tribunal 2nd

Nah, not even that, since Vertigo is a universe.
Lucifer copyed the creation, and made one universe.




Marvel toaa isnot a write rit is just a character

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
So ...
TOAA = DC Writer
Presence 2nd = Living Tribunal 2nd

Nah, not even that, since Vertigo is a universe.
Lucifer copyed the creation, and made one universe.
That sounds about right.

Originally posted by Devil Lance


Marvel toaa isnot a write rit is just a character

Marvel GOD is Jack Kirby.

TOAA is Stan Lee, they are them but appear in comics.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
Marvel GOD is Jack Kirby.

TOAA is Stan Lee, they are them but appear in comics.
okay but the comics they are in are not written and or drawn by them so the wrietrs are above them because they can't controll what they do

and anyways the DC god is the editor in chief

amnd I'm guessing the outside forces that the presence was talking about was our "God" if you beleive in it obviously.

Originally posted by Devil Lance
Vertigo is cannon wtf are you talking about

Vertigo has never been in continuity.

Originally posted by Howard_Jones
Vertigo has never been in continuity. Not to DC, but in it's own universe/whatever.

That's like saying that Spawn isn't canon just because it's not in DC.
Not everything is DC and Marvel.

Originally posted by bigbran
Not to DC, but in it's own universe/whatever.

That's like saying that Spawn isn't canon just because it's not in DC.
Not everything is DC and Marvel.

thank you thats what I was trying to say

Originally posted by Devil Lance
thank you thats what I was trying to say Your welcome.

Also, to those that think that it is "non-canon" how the hell, does an entire comic book line, with it's own multiverse title, equal non-canon?
I guess Image is non-canon...

Lucifer has about 70 (is it) comics to himself.

Lucifer wins! He beats gods when hes powerless. And Thanos please drop the anti-DC God crap. It makes you look childish.

During the Abraxas arc,

it seemed that ONLY the Ultimate Nullifier could stop Abraxas.

And it took REMAKING the entire Multi-verse at that.

Originally posted by Mr Master
During the Abraxas arc,

it seemed that ONLY the Ultimate Nullifier could stop Abraxas.

And it took REMAKING the entire Multi-verse at that. It took an omniversal big bang to almost make Lucifer blink...

Originally posted by bigbran
It took an omniversal big bang to almost make Lucifer blink...

Didn't know DC or Vertigo had an Omni-verse.

Where did this happen?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Didn't know DC or Vertigo had an Omni-verse.

Where did this happen? I'll try and look.
It was still a big bang, though, even if not omniversal, but I'll still look.

Lucifer comics. Don't know exact issues. Maybe ask Catfood what issue.
Micheal hit him with a big bang, and Lucifer didn't flinch.

Originally posted by bigbran
I'll try and look.
It was still a big bang, though, even if not omniversal, but I'll still look.

Lucifer comics. Don't know exact issues. Maybe ask Catfood what issue.
Micheal hit him with a big bang, and Lucifer didn't flinch.

As I know, it was Universal.

Michael has the power of the Demiurge within him. Its power can create a big bang level explosion, and Lucifer stood next to it like it was nothing.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Let's see ...
Vertigo = non canon
Lucifer's prime feat: creating a universe, and he didn't do it with just his own power.
Lucifer second only to the Presence? - Pfft, in Vertigo there's been stated that there are beings above the Presence.

Lucifer looses either way ... And WTF did Abraxas do under his own power that was more impressive then what Lucifer did? killing a handfull of Galactus's and Reed's?

That is a good feat, but does it mean that he is greater then Lucifer? no

Originally posted by bigbran
I'll try and look.
It was still a big bang, though, even if not omniversal, but I'll still look.

Lucifer comics. Don't know exact issues. Maybe ask Catfood what issue.
Micheal hit him with a big bang, and Lucifer didn't flinch. Yeah, the whole "omniversal big bang" thing is somewhat of a KMC myth. An omniverse was never mentioned during the entire Lucifer arch.

Lucifer made his own universe, it was stated numerous times throughout the story. So how could the big bang have been omniversal when it was only a universe that was created?

Abraxas, under his own power, didn't do much. He killed roma, a bunch of galactus's, and a bunch of Reeds.

Impresive, but not anything that makes me think that he's a match for Lucifer.

Like i said the whole thing about the god thing is a paradox. how can Yahweh be infinite and eternal yet formed by outside forces. Essentially that in itself its contradictory.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
Like i said the whole thing about the god thing is a paradox. how can Yahweh be infinite and eternal yet formed by outside forces. Essentially that in itself its contradictory.

Glad I'm not the only one who caught that.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Abraxas, under his own power, didn't do much. He killed roma, a bunch of galactus's, and a bunch of Reeds.

Impresive, but not anything that makes me think that he's a match for Lucifer.

He also took the Watcher's memory away, and his Emblem.

Disintergrated the Watcher's sanctuary with a touch.

And Roma doesn't get the credit she deserves, Roma is the being in charge of Guarding the Mutli-verse, and Abraxas killed her effortlessly.


Abraxas was also collapsing the Multi-verse (how did everyone forget this)


And the big daddy is,

ONLY the Ultimate Nullifier was able to banish Abraxas.
So UNLESS Lucifer can ERASE and RECREATE a Multi-verse in an instant...

I don't see how he's going to win.

seeing as how Lucifer is responsible for creating time and space using Michael's power i don't see him beating Abraxas as a far stretch.

Originally posted by Mr Master

And Roma doesn't get the credit she deserves, Roma is the being in charge of Guarding the Mutli-verse, and Abraxas killed her effortlessly.



i always got the impression that roma's place as guardian is sort of like the majestrix of the shi'ar...she's not powerful so much as really, really important. don't read too much cap britain though.

Shes like the queen of england she has no power just seems like she does.

Originally posted by Mordum
Shes like the queen of england she has no power just seems like she does.

Not that's not exactly accurate now Mor,

Roma has power indeed.


Just one of many feats,


Roma has Control over Time...

Here she is with a Cap. Brit. would be successor

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2444/romarevive1xr7.th.jpg


Roma plucks her husband (who was Dead) from the Past

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/9536/romarevive2od8.th.jpg

And brings him to the Present (Alive) with a gesture




The Celestial Nullifier belongs to Roma, she can erase ANY Universe in the Omni-verse: (Even the UN hasn't shown that range)

Here Roma threatens to erase the 616 UNIVERSE in 48 hours, if Captain Britain and company can't seal the (Chaos Wave) breach

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/4218/sc9vq6.th.jpg




Also Roma's Citadel is so immense, it has countless Dimensions inside it from coulntless TIMELINES (which She can manipulate at will)


Just the HALL in the Starlight Citadel can FIT ENTIRE PLANETS

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/2695/r4sr3.th.jpg
"BUT when Her CITADEL FALLS, that impossibly vast Space is suddenly crowded"



"With an inconceivable variety & number of species, as ALL the DIMENSIONS there are suddenly crash into one"

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/2365/r5wo6.th.jpg




AND,


The Starlight Citadel


"At the CENTER POINT of CREATION is the Starlight Citadel of Brian's (Omniversal Guardian) Ultimate Boss"
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/639/r1gb2.th.jpg


"Roma, the CELESTIAL Guardian, Her Power is ALL that Her TITLE IMPLIES and MORE"
http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/3525/r2ky2.th.jpg



Roma's & Her Citadel took a head on hit by the Chaos Wave

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/5844/r3sm2.th.jpg


And Roma survived

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1897/r7pf6.th.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
He also took the Watcher's memory away, and his Emblem.

Disintergrated the Watcher's sanctuary with a touch.

And Roma doesn't get the credit she deserves, Roma is the being in charge of Guarding the Mutli-verse, and Abraxas killed her effortlessly.


Abraxas was also collapsing the Multi-verse (how did everyone forget this)


And the big daddy is,

ONLY the Ultimate Nullifier was able to banish Abraxas.
So UNLESS Lucifer can ERASE and RECREATE a Multi-verse in an instant...

I don't see how he's going to win. Lucifer scared off Spectre. Micheal, who is equal to Lucifer beat Spectre twice.
Lucifer can exist outside of God's presence.
Lucifer treats lower demons (to him) like they are nothing.
He has his own universe, why would he go destroying universes?

Also, I still don't believe that was the multiverse that the UN destroyed.
First off, Reed destroyed the entire universe, he destroyed everything there, he pointed it straight at Abraxus.
He nullified Abraxus, then remade the universe so he wouldn't have a way to get back, if he was still around. He never stated that he destroyed the multiverse.

Also, where was it stated, that Abraxus could only be destroyed by the UN? Who else fought him, that we could be saying this right now? Killing Thing? Killing Galactus's off panel? Killing a bunch of Reeds? Awesome, but it still doesn't equal him fighting Eternity.
Sure he is multiversal, but that doesn't mean that you have to destroy everything to beat him.

Why do some on here think he (Luci) isn't multiversal threat? He's created another Creation just like The Presence's and Michael told him there can only be 1 Creation. Before Gods creation there was nothing as its already been stated.. Michael has the power of the Demuirge within him, its power can create another Creation or Universe's. Lucifer beats gods POWERLESS! That would be like Abraxas (powerless) going up against Odin in Asgard. Whos going to win? Come on guys

And to be honest its like this IG>>>>>>abraxas so it depends how people think lucifer fairs against the IG but i just dont see him losing this fight.

he'd probably be able to harness the energies of the IG if he were to fight it.

Originally posted by bigbran
Lucifer scared off Spectre. Micheal, who is equal to Lucifer beat Spectre twice.

And Abraxas scared Multi-Eternity 616, the most powerful Multi-verse in Marvel, so much so he didn't even dare try and stop Abraxas.


Originally posted by bigbran
Lucifer can exist outside of God's presence.

Nice,

but I don't see how that's going to help him.


Originally posted by bigbran
Lucifer treats lower demons (to him) like they are nothing.

This will not help him either.


Originally posted by bigbran
He has his own universe, why would he go destroying universes?

Nice,

Abraxas had an Infinite amount of Universes shivering in their Cosmic pants.


Originally posted by bigbran
Also, I still don't believe that was the multiverse that the UN destroyed.

No problem, I'll prove it.


Originally posted by bigbran
First off, Reed destroyed the entire universe, he destroyed everything there, he pointed it straight at Abraxus.
He nullified Abraxus, then remade the universe so he wouldn't have a way to get back, if he was still around.

I don't no where your getting your info from, but Reed did NOT destroy Abraxas FIRST, and THEN the "Universe".

It was ALL done at once, and it was the MULTI-VERSE, for the simple reasons listed below.


Originally posted by bigbran
He never stated that he destroyed the multiverse.

This is what really went down,


Here Reed says "our Earth is merging with other Alternates"...how can this be...unless the entire Multiverse is misaligned.

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/3020/earthalignment8vq.th.jpg


Here Nova says "creatures of the MULTIVERSE Mixing --- Reality folding onto itself" again this Multiversal misalignment is literally ripping the Multiverse apart.

http://img318.imageshack.us/img318/2111/earthalignment26rx.th.jpg


Finally what does this lead to?


Reed, "In order to REALIGN ALL that is...we had to END ALL that was."

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7392/earthalignment39jd.th.jpg

What was MISALIGNED?


The MULTI-VERSE!


Reed uses the Ultimate Nullifier to banish Abraxas & Remake the Multiverse at the SAME TIME:

http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/6069/1unisusedbyreedtodestroyabraxa.th.jpg


UN Destroys the Multiverse:

http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/932/2undestroysmultieternityinfini.th.jpg


UN Remakes the Multiverse in an instant:

http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/893/3unremakesthemultiverse9jq.th.jpg



IS the Ultimate Nullifier capable of such a FEAT?


"Should Abraxas reach the NULLIFIER, He CAN OBLITERATE ALL the COMBINED REALITIES of the MULTI-VERSE"

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5568/unismulticv0.th.jpg

Indeed it is.



Continues in the next post...

Continues...


Originally posted by bigbran
Also, where was it stated, that Abraxus could only be destroyed by the UN?

Here ya go:


"It will be a WEAPON of UNIMAGINABLE POWER that will WIN this DAY"

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1483/roma1fh6.th.jpg


Originally posted by bigbran
Who else fought him, that we could be saying this right now?

The Cosmics were obviously hiding in a corner somewhere.

Abraxas is the MULTI-VERSAL embodiment of Destruction, ONLY the UN could stop him as Roma pointed out, as the story proved.


Originally posted by bigbran
Killing Galactus's off panel?

Off Panel, On Panel, they were murdered one way or another,

and Abraxas does not use weapons or energy sources, so it was with his own power.


Originally posted by bigbran
Killing a bunch of Reeds?

EVERY Reed Richards in the Multi-verse simultaneously, which equals to an Infinite number of Alternate Reed Richards since the Multi-verse is Infinite.




Originally posted by bigbran
Awesome, but it still doesn't equal him fighting Eternity.

Eternity, actually MULTI-ETERNITY was terrified, and had to summon Reed Richards and Dr Druid to get help against Abraxas:


"and where ONE ETERNITY would ensure a BOUNDLESS Universe, a MULTI-ETERNITY would ensure a BOUNDLESS MULTI-VERSE"

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7421/multieternity16do.th.jpg


"What was revealed to me through the Cosmic Entity known as ETERNITY (MULTI-VERSE)

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5025/etuh4.th.jpg


"Was a Being like NO OTHER I have EVER encountered, his name is ABRAXAS, and to say HE (MULTI-ETERNITY) had nothing to FEAR in our discovery is an UNDERSTATEMENT"

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/267/a2rq5.th.jpg



Originally posted by bigbran
Sure he is multiversal, but that doesn't mean that you have to destroy everything to beat him.

Evidently you do.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
he'd probably be able to harness the energies of the IG if he were to fight it.

I sincerely doubt that.

Abraxis Wins.


1) The Blast from Micheal's demise was ONLY Universal on scale, multiversal AT MOST....but NOT fkn Omniversal, so please.

2) Ultamate Nullifier is still greater as it has the capacity to wipe out a Multiverse, which was necessary for Abraxis's destruction.

3) It has already been established that Galactus at FULL POWER can destroy a Universe....guess what. Abraxis murdered multiple Galactus's throughout the 616 Multiverse.

4) Abraxis took out Roma.....overseer and protector of the Multiverse.

5) Multi Eternity, the embodyment of the multiverse, a being who consists of such cosmic mass, that "big bangs" are like popped zits to his being, was TERRIFIED of Abraxis.


6) The Greatest Feats that LUCIFER has ever performed were: Creating a Universe, Surviving a Big Bang explosion, and Defeating two idiotic / simple minded titans who took Yahweh's power.

That does not compare to Abraxis' feats of murdering countless Galactus's, defeating Roma, terrifying Multi-Eternity, etc.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Continues...




Here ya go:


"It will be a WEAPON of UNIMAGINABLE POWER that will WIN this DAY"

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1483/roma1fh6.th.jpg




The Cosmics were obviously hiding in a corner somewhere.

Abraxas is the MULTI-VERSAL embodiment of Destruction, ONLY the UN could stop him as Roma pointed out, as the story proved.




Off Panel, On Panel, they were murdered one way or another,

and Abraxas does not use weapons or energy sources, so it was with his own power.




EVERY Reed Richards in the Multi-verse simultaneously, which equals to an Infinite number of Alternate Reed Richards since the Multi-verse is Infinite.






Eternity, actually MULTI-ETERNITY was terrified, and had to summon Reed Richards and Dr Druid to get help against Abraxas:


"and where ONE ETERNITY would ensure a BOUNDLESS Universe, a MULTI-ETERNITY would ensure a BOUNDLESS MULTI-VERSE"

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7421/multieternity16do.th.jpg


"What was revealed to me through the Cosmic Entity known as ETERNITY (MULTI-VERSE)

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5025/etuh4.th.jpg


"Was a Being like NO OTHER I have EVER encountered, his name is ABRAXAS, and to say HE (MULTI-ETERNITY) had nothing to FEAR in our discovery is an UNDERSTATEMENT"

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/267/a2rq5.th.jpg





Evidently you do.


abraxas is a monsta nice job mm

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Abraxis Wins.


1) The Blast from Micheal's demise was ONLY Universal on scale, multiversal AT MOST....but NOT fkn Omniversal, so please.

2) Ultamate Nullifier is still greater as it has the capacity to wipe out a Multiverse, which was necessary for Abraxis's destruction.

3) It has already been established that Galactus at FULL POWER can destroy a Universe....guess what. Abraxis murdered multiple Galactus's throughout the 616 Multiverse.

4) Abraxis took out Roma.....overseer and protector of the Multiverse.

5) Multi Eternity, the embodyment of the multiverse, a being who consists of such cosmic mass, that "big bangs" are like popped zits to his being, was TERRIFIED of Abraxis.


6) The Greatest Feats that LUCIFER has ever performed were: Creating a Universe, Surviving a Big Bang explosion, and Defeating two idiotic / simple minded titans who took Yahweh's power.

That does not compare to Abraxis' feats of murdering countless Galactus's, defeating Roma, terrifying Multi-Eternity, etc.
3. Is illogical, because NONE of the Galactus's that Abraxes killed where Full-Power. They were all just Well-Fed.

and 1. Implies that Lucifer Resisted a blast that was Multiversal in scale, enough to create (Or Destroy) a Multi-verse. Why, that's just what got rid of Abraxes, isn't it.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Abraxis Wins.


1) The Blast from Micheal's demise was ONLY Universal on scale, multiversal AT MOST....but NOT fkn Omniversal, so please.

2) Ultamate Nullifier is still greater as it has the capacity to wipe out a Multiverse, which was necessary for Abraxis's destruction.

3) It has already been established that Galactus at FULL POWER can destroy a Universe....guess what. Abraxis murdered multiple Galactus's throughout the 616 Multiverse.

4) Abraxis took out Roma.....overseer and protector of the Multiverse.

5) Multi Eternity, the embodyment of the multiverse, a being who consists of such cosmic mass, that "big bangs" are like popped zits to his being, was TERRIFIED of Abraxis.

6) The Greatest Feats that LUCIFER has ever performed were: Creating a Universe, Surviving a Big Bang explosion, and Defeating two idiotic / simple minded titans who took Yahweh's power.

That does not compare to Abraxis' feats of murdering countless Galactus's, defeating Roma, terrifying Multi-Eternity, etc.

He actually has more feats then that .. Killing gods when he's POWERLESS! Making another Creation just like Gods, something we have never seen anyone in Marvel do. Killing Fenris the immortal god of destruction (Fenris was watching Lucifer for BILLIONS OF YEARS and still lost lol). Can destroy everyone in hell. Cared nothing for the triumvirate and closed hell down without asking them..

Abraxas seems to be the Imperiex of the MU. I'll ask again, would Abraxas or hell even LT be able to beat any gods in Marvel powerless? Lucifer still wins

Originally posted by kevdude
He actually has more feats then that Killing gods when he's POWERLESS!

Doesn't that actually mean that he wasn't powerless?


Originally posted by kevdude
Making another Creation just like Gods, something we have never seen anyone in Marvel do.

Wasn't it just a Universe he created?

How is that the same as making another DC Reality?



Originally posted by kevdude
something we have never seen anyone in Marvel do.

Well Marvel happens to be rediculously bigger than DC though.

And the UN alone created the 616 MULTI-VERSE from scratch.

And pre-retcon Beyonder created a Universe bigger than the original Multi-verse (which was ALL of MARVEL at the time)


Originally posted by kevdude
Killing Fenris the immortal god of destruction (Fenris was watching Lucifer for BILLIONS OF YEARS and still lost lol). Can destroy everyone in hell. Cared nothing for the triumvirate and closed hell down without asking them..

ALL the gods of Marvel are jokes to Abraxas.


Originally posted by kevdude
Abraxas seems to be the Imperiex of the MU.





Originally posted by kevdude
I'll ask again, would Abraxas or hell even LT be able to beat any gods in Marvel powerless?

Again, this doesn't make any sense


Originally posted by kevdude
Lucifer still wins

I think not.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Doesn't that actually mean that he wasn't powerless?




Wasn't it just a Universe he created?

How is that the same as making another DC Reality?





Well Marvel happens to be rediculously bigger than DC though.

And the UN alone created the 616 MULTI-VERSE from scratch.

And pre-retcon Beyonder created a Universe bigger than the original Multi-verse (which was ALL of MARVEL at the time)




ALL the gods of Marvel are jokes to Abraxas.










Again, this doesn't make any sense




I think not.

1. Went into Mansions of Silence as just a mortal and killed everyone there.

2. The DC Multiverse is separate from the rest of the Universe but still a part of it understand?

3. All of the Gods in DC are a joke to Lucifer as well .

4. If Abraxas or LT was a mere MORTAL in another gods realm and beat them yes I would put them at Lucifer level, but they have never done this.

Originally posted by kevdude
1. Went into Mansions of Silence as just a mortal and killed everyone there.

So was he powerless or not?

At first you claimed he was powerless, now it was that he became Mortal,

I guess you figured that just didn't sound right.


Originally posted by kevdude
2. The DC Multiverse is separate from the rest of the Universe but still a part of it understand?

I understand,

I also understand as I've just been informed that it was a SINGLE UNIVERSE indeed that Luc created, not another Creation like yahweh's as you first said.

Creating a Universe is nothing to Abraxas, who had an ENTIRE MULTI-VERSE panicking over the survival of it's existence.


Originally posted by kevdude
3. All of the Gods in DC are a joke to Lucifer as well

It was you that brought up measly gods into this picture.


Originally posted by kevdude
4. If Abraxas or LT was a mere MORTAL in another gods realm and beat them yes I would put them at Lucifer level, but they have never done this.

Again, this doesn't make ANY sense.

I'm sorry if Abraxas and LT are not Mortals, and Luc can become one and kick meaningless gods around.

How does this help him, I don't understand.

Has anyone read a comic book written before 2001?

The entire Vertigo IMPRINT is simply an imprint for over 18 readership. Some of the Vertigo stuff is canon to the DCU some is not.

It is safe to say that anything in a Vertigo title whose characters spun out of a regular DC title is canon.

For instance, John Constantine's first appearance was as part of a Swamp Thing crossever with Batman, back when Swamp Thing was a DC non Vertigo book. Swamp Thing jumped to Vertigo in mid stream in his 3rd or 4th series.

Vertigo Death, you know the hot chick, is officially canonically the Death for the entire DCU. Neil Gaiman has written that over and over again. In fact Gaiman has the Endless as serving their purposes for the entire DCU. IIRC Morpheus has crossed over with the JLA and Batman.

There is only one Phantom Stranger, the same one who appears in Vertigo titles is the one who appears in Shadowpact for example.

Now as to Lucifer...

the only thing that Lucifer cannot do is create something from nothing. That is the Demiurgic power, which was only given to his brother Michael.

Michael on the other hand is not a reality crafter in Lucifer's power level.

Lucifer can for instance wipe out a Creation (the DCU is referred to as the second Creation of Yahweh) and use that energy to create another universe in the Void. Lucifer accidently destroys some Creations or purposely, who knows during his series.

The Spectre cannot even harm Lucifer or Michael. Yahweh created both of them so powerful than only Yahweh and his aspects are more powerful

The Presence is the aspect of Yahweh that appears inside various Creations and on the throne of the former Heaven.

Another famous aspect of Yahweh is the GEB.

The entire IC event coincided with the deliberate absence of Yahweh from the DCU, as he was trying to pass it to Lucifer. The reining in of the Spectre coincided almost to the month with Elaine taking on the role of the Presence.

If the fullpowered Spectre is about equal to the LT, and the LT is greater than Abraxus (I say yes), then Lucifer houses Abraxus.

Mr. Master I don't see how you can't understand this. Mortal and Powerless is, having no powers at ALL. Its the same thing.. And Lucifer did indeed create another Creation/Universe. The Multiverse is a part of the Universe cut off.. Lucifer cares nothing for the Multiverse.

And imagine if Abraxas was without his powers and in the realm of Asgard fighting Odin? Who would win? Is it that hard to comprehend?
Really should read more Lucifer comics.

Originally posted by kevdude
Mr. Master I don't see how you can't understand this. Mortal and Powerless is, having no powers at ALL. Its the same thing..


WRONG Magneto is mortal, but is powerful as hell. Superman is mortal but is as powerful as hell. Goku is mortal but is as powerful as hell.

Lucifer was mortal, but NOT powerless.

Originally posted by King Kandy
3. Is illogical, because NONE of the Galactus's that Abraxes killed where Full-Power. They were all just Well-Fed.

and 1. Implies that Lucifer Resisted a blast that was Multiversal in scale, enough to create (Or Destroy) a Multi-verse. Why, that's just what got rid of Abraxes, isn't it.



1) Prove to me that all the Galactus' were not at full power.

2) Ultmate Nullifer is not just a "blast" like Micheal's big bang is. The Ultamate Nullifier ERASES the multiverse with ease. Abraxas was not blown up...he was ERASED by the UN.

It's not the same deal.

3) There is no proof that Micheal's big bang was multiversal. It was most likely universal, since the Lucifer series only deals on a universal scale.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
WRONG Magneto is mortal, but is powerful as hell. Superman is mortal but is as powerful as hell. Goku is mortal but is as powerful as hell.

Lucifer was mortal, but NOT powerless.

Actually I was thinking of when Lucifer went to the Japanese Gods realm and beat Izanami when he was powerless and mortal! During the Mansions of Silence event, he killed an untold number just by being in the there realm then killed Tsuki-Yomi.

And the fact that Michaels big bang helped create ANOTHER Creation, something that the Multiverse is a part of. Yah it couldn't destroy the multiverse

Originally posted by Mr Master
And the big daddy is,

ONLY the Ultimate Nullifier was able to banish Abraxas.
So UNLESS Lucifer can ERASE and RECREATE a Multi-verse in an instant...
I was under the impression that the main reason Reed needed to destroy/recreate the Multiverse was because he needed to fix what Abraxas has done to it, not necessarily because this was the only way to banish Abraxas.

If you could shed some light, that would be great.

Originally posted by kevdude
Actually I was thinking of when Lucifer went to the Japanese Gods realm and beat Izanami when he was powerless and mortal! During the Mansions of Silence event, he killed an untold number just by being in the there realm then killed Tsuki-Yomi.

And the fact that Michaels big bang helped create ANOTHER Creation, something that the Multiverse is a part of. Yah it couldn't destroy the multiverse
Could you give some of those Lucifer scans you refer to?

Originally posted by kevdude
Mr. Master I don't see how you can't understand this. Mortal and Powerless is, having no powers at ALL. Its the same thing..

There are countless beings that are Mortal and are still extremely Powerful.

What doesn't make sense about your statement is that a Powerless being, still can be Powerful, that's sort of an oxymoron.

I think your confusing the two.

He might of been Mortal, (for whatever reason) but like MANY others he was still Powerful.



Originally posted by kevdude
And Lucifer did indeed create another Creation/Universe. The Multiverse is a part of the Universe cut off.. Lucifer cares nothing for the Multiverse.

Whether he cares about the Multi-verse or not is inconsequential.

My point was he did NOT create another Creation like the DC Reality, he created a SINGLE Universe.


Originally posted by kevdude
And imagine if Abraxas was without his powers and in the realm of Asgard fighting Odin? Who would win?

It would be the same outcome for Luc,

by the very definition, Powerless means, ..... well..... Powerless.


Originally posted by kevdude
Is it that hard to comprehend?

The way your phrasing it?

Yes.


Originally posted by kevdude
Really should read more Lucifer comics.

As you should read more Marvel.

Originally posted by Galan007
I was under the impression that the main reason Reed needed to destroy/recreate the Multiverse was because he needed to fix what Abraxas has done to it, not necessarily because this was the only way to banish Abraxas.

If you could shed some light, that would be great.

Both,

the ONLY way to Banish Abraxas was to Erase and Create a NEW Multi-verse in which Abraxas never manifested in.



Here Roma says it:


"It will be a WEAPON of UNIMAGINABLE POWER that will WIN this DAY"

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1483/roma1fh6.th.jpg





Here Galactus says it, and Reed realizes this truth:


"But THIS Time, THIS Day can END ONLY ONE WAY"

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/2953/u1ok8.th.jpg

Reed says, "Yes.... God help me, I can see that now"





Here when Reed uses the UN, Abaxas and Reed say to each other:


Abraxas says, "Put it down Richards, you have no idea"

http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/6069/1unisusedbyreedtodestroyabraxa.th.jpg

Reed says, "Actually Abraxas I do, You NEVER INTENDED to FIRE the Nullifier for the very same Reason I MUST"



So you see, it's quite clear that Abraxas himself KNEW, the ONLY possible way to get rid of him, (even if he used it himself), was with the Ultimate Nullifier.

cool, it makes more sense.......... thanks!

Originally posted by kevdude
Actually I was thinking of when Lucifer went to the Japanese Gods realm and beat Izanami when he was powerless and mortal! During the Mansions of Silence event, he killed an untold number just by being in the there realm then killed Tsuki-Yomi.


He was NOT powerless....only mortal. HE still had the power to kill them. If he didn't have the power to do so, then it would have not happened.


Originally posted by kevdude
And the fact that Michaels big bang helped create ANOTHER Creation, something that the Multiverse is a part of. Yah it couldn't destroy the multiverse

Show me the scan where Micheal's big bang helped created another multiverse, and NOT another Universe. The term multiverse has not been used in the Lucifer series in regard to Yahweh's creation, only UNIVERSE has...

Originally posted by Mr Master
And Abraxas scared Multi-Eternity 616, the most powerful Multi-verse in Marvel, so much so he didn't even dare try and stop Abraxas. Actually, Multi-Eternity was never scared.
It was Abraxus who was afraid of the discovery of the UN.
Also, even if he was, Spectre is higher than Multi-Eternity.




Originally posted by Mr Master
Nice,

but I don't see how that's going to help him. That he is powerful enough to exists out of God's presence!




Originally posted by Mr Master
This will not help him either. He doesn't care about lower demons.



Originally posted by Mr Master
Nice,

Abraxas had an Infinite amount of Universes shivering in their Cosmic pants. No, he didn't.




Originally posted by Mr Master
No problem, I'll prove it.



UN Destroys the Multiverse:

http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/932/2undestroysmultieternityinfini.th.jpg


UN Remakes the Multiverse in an instant:

http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/893/3unremakesthemultiverse9jq.th.jpg



IS the Ultimate Nullifier capable of such a FEAT?


"Should Abraxas reach the NULLIFIER, He CAN OBLITERATE ALL the COMBINED REALITIES of the MULTI-VERSE"

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5568/unismulticv0.th.jpg

Indeed it is.
OK, I was wrong, just read the Abraxas arc. He destroys all of them.
However in the scan of him destroying them, he only destroys normal Eternity, artists error?

About the Abraxas getting the UN, maybe it is because he can just transverse to different Universes and destroy them. Maybe it isn't talking about the whole multiverse, just that Abraxas can destroy them seperately.
I'm not arguing about him destroying it now, but that scan is irrelevent.

He teleported to Roma's, there is no solid evidence depending on that scan, one way or the other.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Continues...




Here ya go:


"It will be a WEAPON of UNIMAGINABLE POWER that will WIN this DAY"

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1483/roma1fh6.th.jpg This means...
What exactly?

Did it say that only the UN could defeat him, or did it say an unimaginable weapon could win? It could be talking about any extremely powerful weapon.




Originally posted by Mr Master
The Cosmics were obviously hiding in a corner somewhere.

Abraxas is the MULTI-VERSAL embodiment of Destruction, ONLY the UN could stop him as Roma pointed out, as the story proved. No, an UNIMAGINABLE WEAPON COULD.
The IG is higher than the UN, so shouldn't the IG also beat Abraxas?




Originally posted by Mr Master
Off Panel, On Panel, they were murdered one way or another,

and Abraxas does not use weapons or energy sources, so it was with his own power. Ya, how do you know, he just didn't kick them in the nuts or something?




Originally posted by Mr Master
EVERY Reed Richards in the Multi-verse simultaneously, which equals to an Infinite number of Alternate Reed Richards since the Multi-verse is Infinite. Ya I know.






Originally posted by Mr Master
Eternity, actually MULTI-ETERNITY was terrified, and had to summon Reed Richards and Dr Druid to get help against Abraxas:


"and where ONE ETERNITY would ensure a BOUNDLESS Universe, a MULTI-ETERNITY would ensure a BOUNDLESS MULTI-VERSE"

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7421/multieternity16do.th.jpgYa, I know, but they only traveled through Multi-Eternity to see Abraxas.

Originally posted by Mr Master
"What was revealed to me through the Cosmic Entity known as ETERNITY (MULTI-VERSE)

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5025/etuh4.th.jpg


"Was a Being like NO OTHER I have EVER encountered, his name is ABRAXAS, and to say HE (MULTI-ETERNITY) had nothing to FEAR in our discovery is an UNDERSTATEMENT"

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/267/a2rq5.th.jpg Wait, think about this one.
Eternity told everyone about Abraxas, so what is the discovery that anyone told him about?
Eternity is the one who found out the discovery, so, saying "our" discovery would be Reed's discovery. The only thing Reed found out was the UN.
So it would be Abraxas being scared of the UN, not Eternity being scared of Abraxas!
Does this make sence?

No, it's Abraxas that is scared of the discovery.
Either that, or something is wrong here...





Originally posted by Mr Master
Evidently you do. No, what else is going to destroy him? There was no weapon other than the UN that was powerful enough to take him out. That does NOT mean that only the UN can take him out.

Do you think that LT couldn't wipe his ass out?

Also, what does Abraxas getting his ass kicked by the UN have to do with him beating Lucifer?

Unless Abraxas is above Spectre he loses.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Unless Abraxas is above Spectre he loses.


Wrong



Urizen can defeat Lucifer even though Urizen has not been shown to be anywhere on Spectre's level (in terms of cosmic-scale feats)

Thanos w IG can defeat Lucifer, even though he has not done as much as Spectre.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Thanos w IG can defeat Lucifer, even though he has not done as much as Spectre. meh..... IMO Thanos /w/ the IG has had more impressive feats then Spectre....

Thanos litterally became Eternity (the universe).

Thanos easily defeated every cosmic entity in Marvel, with the exception of LT, who by pannel feats is>Spectre.

Thanos created quite a few forms of life, as well as several objects from nothingness.

Thats just to name a few.

Originally posted by Galan007
meh..... IMO Thanos /w/ the IG has had more impressive feats then Spectre....

Thanos litterally became Eternity (the universe).

Thanos easily defeated every cosmic entity in Marvel, with the exception of LT, who by pannel feats is>Spectre.

Thanos created quite a few forms of life, as well as several objects from nothingness.

Thats just to name a few.
Spectre defeated Parallax

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Spectre defeated Parallax Yeah Spectre defeated Parallax, but he need the help of a handfull of magic users to defeat Anti-Monitor???

Go figure...

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah Spectre defeated Parallax, but he need the help of a handfull of magic users to defeat Anti-Monitor???

Go figure...
Still that feat is above Thanos with IG's feats

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Still that feat is above Thanos with IG's feats Defeating AM with the help of magic users<Thanos /w/ IG feats

Judging Parallax>Thanos /w/ IG feats


IMO those 2 seperate feats somewhat equal themselves out...

Don't get me wrong I believe Spectre would beat Thanos /w/ IG in a straight up battle, I'm just comparing feats.

Originally posted by Galan007
Defeating AM with the help of magic users<Thanos /w/ IG feats

Judging Parallax>Thanos /w/ IG feats


IMO those 2 seperate feats somewhat equal themselves out...

Don't get me wrong I believe Spectre would beat Thanos /w/ IG in a straight up battle, I'm just comparing feats.
Yeah sure no prob. Have you seen the Spectre vs Jokerised Parallax "fight"?

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Have you seen the Spectre vs Jokerised Parallax "fight"? I'm not sure...... whats that?

http://img472.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1ej4.jpg
http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2is2.jpg

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
http://img472.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1ej4.jpg
http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2is2.jpg Nice stuff.

Whats that from?

Originally posted by Galan007
Nice stuff.

Whats that from?
Spectre v4 10

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Spectre v4 10 very nice...

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Wrong



Urizen can defeat Lucifer even though Urizen has not been shown to be anywhere on Spectre's level (in terms of cosmic-scale feats)

Thanos w IG can defeat Lucifer, even though he has not done as much as Spectre.



1. No
2. No

Originally posted by kevdude


1. No
2. No


1)
2)

Originally posted by Astner
Let's see ...
Vertigo = non canon
Lucifer's prime feat: creating a universe, and he didn't do it with just his own power.
Lucifer second only to the Presence? - Pfft, in Vertigo there's been stated that there are beings above the Presence.

Lucifer looses either way ...

Interesting...Interesting...

Granted, I only browsed through the scans and posts, but during the Abraxas storyline, was the Living Tribunal involved at all? Anybody know?

(If it was mentioned already,,,,I apologize.)

Originally posted by tkitna

Granted, I only browsed through the scans and posts, but during the Abraxas storyline, was the Living Tribunal involved at all? Anybody know?

(If it was mentioned already,,,,I apologize.)
The LT can't interfere in the affairs of Abstract conceptual ideas that take form,
because they're only carrying out their purpose to exist,
therefore they are part of the cosmic scheme of things,
and thus must be allowed to perform their tasks.

Abraxas specifically, embodies the concept of Destruction.

Morning

Lucifer FTW

Originally posted by Mr Master
The LT can't interfere in the affairs of Abstract conceptual ideas that take form,
because they're only carrying out their purpose to exist,
therefore they are part of the cosmic scheme of things,
and thus must be allowed to perform their tasks.

Abraxas specifically, embodies the concept of Destruction.

The LT wouldnt act even if all of existance we're in peril? Another words, I wonder if he would act if his being was in question.

Just wondering and i'll quit asking dumb questions after this.

Originally posted by tkitna
The LT wouldnt act even if all of existance we're in peril? Another words, I wonder if he would act if his being was in question.

Just wondering and i'll quit asking dumb questions after this.

He did when THOTI was in the game. He also did it with IG. He also stopped Zom. He also wanted to remove Galactus from existence with help of others. He also came after Phoenix Force.

Originally posted by tkitna

The LT wouldnt act even if all of existance we're in peril?
Against the manifestation of a conceptual being?

Never.

Against any threat other than that?

It depends,
see the LT interferes if there's an imbalance of power within a sphere of existence,
that can alter the mystical balance of the infinite Multiverse.
Sometimes, it only takes a single Planet to summon the LT,
like in the case with the Stranger, when he teleported a planet from the New Universe,
(that's a Universe located within another Multiverse)
this planet had the Starbrand in it (an item not from the Prime Multiverse)
and thus it could potentially cause an unbalance, so the LT sealed up the planet forever.

Another occasion was during that What if, "What if the X-Men lost inferno"
the LT appeared because of events taking place on a single Planet:

...............................................................................

This alternate Sym and Madelyne Prior (Jean Grey's clone)
had opened a portal from Limbo that lead to this alternate Earth scenario,
Limbo began to converge with this alternate planet Earth,
this alone was going to cause a Multiversal imbalance of Mystical energies:

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/1378/ltwb8.th.jpg

"With Earth's plane so unbalanced mystically ...
only a little time before the Living Tribunal arrives"
...............................................................................

But this alternate Dr Strange didn't know,
that Sym planned to spread Limbo across the entire Multiverse
this was the ONLY real direct Multiversal threat in this issue!

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/7974/lt1yp6.th.jpg

...............................................................................

But anyway,

Dr Strange figures he may be able to stop the Limbo effect on Earth atleast,
with the full power of the Phoenix Force:

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8512/lt2pl0.th.jpg

...............................................................................

Strange helps Rachel summon the full power of the Phoenix Force:

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/7262/lt3uk7.th.jpg


Indeed ... they succeed:

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/6549/lt5oc2.th.jpg

...............................................................................

But Madelyne Prior noticed this and figured,
since the full power of the Phoenix Force is Universal,
she might as well take it for herself,
and atleast be able to dominate that alternate Universe.

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/4025/lt6gi9.th.jpg


Since Madelyne Prior is Jean's clone,
she can control the full power of the Phoenix Force just as much as Jean herself,
same goes for Rachel who's Jean's daughter:

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/594/lt7ir5.th.jpg


Like I said, the full power of the Phoenix, a Universal force:

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1151/lt8vm9.th.jpg

"The power will be mine, and with it This Universe shall be mine, mine alone"

...............................................................................



continues in the next post:

continues ...

...............................................................................


Anywho,

Sym dies and the plan to spread Limbo to the rest of the Multiverse dies too.

But this alternate Universe is still in danger because of the Phoenix.

Madelyne ends up winning control of the full power of the Phoenix Force:

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/8530/lt10es3.th.jpg

"Sym is dead ... I've got no competition for dominion over This Universe,
for the Power of the Phoenix is here ... and mine alone"

...............................................................................

But Sym's spirit takes over Wolverines dead bones and stabs Madelyne in the back.

Now Rachel has control over the Universal power of the Phoenix Force:

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/1195/lt11vb7.th.jpg

"The power is now mine ... and the Universe again has a chance"

...............................................................................

So the Phoenix Force remakes that alternate world:

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/8748/lt12rq2.th.jpg

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5914/lt14tw1.th.jpg

...............................................................................

The LT arrives and tells the Phoenix not to take a host for the sake of the Multiverse,
because as we saw,
even a Universal or Planetary imbalance can upset the Multiverse:

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/6824/lt13rc4.th.jpg

Originally posted by tkitna

Another words, I wonder if he would act if his being was in question.
Another Concept would/could never threat the LT,
the LT is the ultimate Concept.


Originally posted by Xplosive

He did when THOTI was in the game.
He also did it with IG. He also stopped
Zom.
He also wanted to remove Galactus from existence with help of others.
None of those occurrences involved Conceptual abstracts though.

The LT can't interfere if the threat is a Concept, even if it's to all existence.

Originally posted by Xplosive

He also came after Phoenix Force.
The LT has never come after the Phoenix Force.

I don't know much about Lucifer, or Abraxas, but judging from what I read, and the arguement made I think that Abraxas can defeat Lucifer

Lucifer every single time.

Lucifer and Michael were above the Spectre?

Pretty much.

Lucifer.

Never seen Abraxas under his own power do anything particularly impressive.

Never seen him manipulate matter on a universal scale as Lucifer has.

To be fair his presence did erode dimensional walls as he neared them, causing inhabitants from other dimensions to cross over into 616, but thats not exactly gob smacking.

He's done nothing but beat up on a few alternate reality Galactus'

Lucifer FTW

This won't end well.

Originally posted by Rorschach
This won't end well.

I know

But its so true!

Eroding dimensional walls is cool, but thats hardly an exercise of power on a universal scale.

A few inhabitants crossed over on to Earth 616 because his presence weakened dimensional walls.

He beat up on some alternate reality Galactus'

Is that enough to make him top tier?

Lets see him do something truly universal. Lets see the extent of his matter manipulation.

Lucifer.

Lucifer for the win

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Eroding dimensional walls is cool,
but thats hardly an exercise of power on a universal scale.

A few inhabitants crossed over on to Earth 616 because his presence weakened dimensional walls.

He beat up on some alternate reality Galactus'

Is that enough to make him top tier?


Same ol' same ol' ...

Demeaning feats of characters that would curbstomp Phoenix!

You should try focusing on the ridiculous exaggeration being perpetrated about Phoenix,

like,

"holding 616 in her hands" LOL!

"stopping/containing the Mkraan from shattering" (supposedly multiversal) LOL!

LOLOLOLOLOL!!!

It was the Neutron Galaxy (ALWAYS been Universal - Then and NOW)

Besides the fact,
that she needed ALL the X-Men's plus Corsair's power and spirits to accomplish this,
besides the fact,
that all she did even with ALL the HELP,
was re-knit the lattice that contains the N-Galaxy from remaking a single universe.

Bah, this truth won't change anything, I know, so have fun in wonderland.
................................................................................................................

As for Abraxas -
it seems your ignorance is only matched by your Phoenix delusions.

................................................................................................................


Abraxas ... his purpose if to erase the infinite Prime Multiverse from existence:



Franklin says about the Omniversal Guardian:

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4308/93557163ze0.th.jpg

"That's Roma, she's gonna help us fight the dark man" (Abraxas)

................................................................................................................

Roma (Omniversal Guardian) makes it clear:

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9166/16158189ml3.th.jpg

"And if we do not act soon ... All of Time will be lost to us"


Abraxas is a Multiversal power of Omniversal significance.
................................................................................................................



Here are Nine Universes that would later be destroyed by Abraxas:


http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/7061/35029126hu5.th.jpg

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/7800/50184278yu8.th.jpg

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/2927/69116273or2.th.jpg

"Imagine each of those Worlds like sand in an hourglass ...
an hourglass which Abraxas will shatter"

................................................................................................................


This is aside from these UniverseS Abraxas collapsed:


http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/8695/0unabraxaskillsallg3ps.th.jpg

................................................................................................................


Meh,

And Abraxas only needs to approach UniverseS to collapse them:
(he doesn't even need to attack or enter said Realities)

(the Multiverse in fact)

http://img318.imageshack.us/img318/2111/earthalignment26rx.th.jpg

"creatures of the Multiverse Mixing --- Reality folding onto itself

This ... is what brings Abraxas" (like I said, just by approaching)


........................................................................................


continues in the nest post ...

......................................................................................


Here are some Bio excerpts,
to confirm my posts which only contain the On Panel evidence:


(reference-Official Marvel Handbook 2006 - Abraxas bio)

......................................................................................


How Abraxas folds/collapses Universes:

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/4069/ab1mn4.th.jpg

"While Abraxas drew near,
the walls of dimensional space began to blur" (fold/collapse)

It goes on to explain the ramifications of Abraxas approaching Realities.

......................................................................................


We shouldn't be surprised ... it's his Job:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/9650/ab2ym8.th.jpg

Occupation: "Dimensional Destroyer"

......................................................................................


Evidently, only a power UN-like can defeat Abraxas:

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9900/abti4.th.jpg

"Realizing the danger Abraxas posed,
the FF went on a Dimension-hopping journey to recover the UN,
the One weapon that could destroy him"

......................................................................................


Indeed, Roma (Omniversal Guardian) stated the same thing On Panel:

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1483/roma1fh6.th.jpg

Roma: "It will be a weapon of unimaginable power that will WIN This day"

......................................................................................


Here Galactus says it, and Reed realizes this truth:

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/2953/u1ok8.th.jpg

Galactus: "But This Time, This Day can end ONLY one way"

Reed: "Yes .... God help me, I can see that now"

So despite all of that effort.

Can you show me some energy manipulation feats please?

As aforementioned, he beat up on some alternate reality Galactus', his power eroded dimensional walls as he neared them, but other than that, you have nothing.

A few people from an alternate reality ended up on Earth 616 because of the blur Abraxas caused.

Thats lovely mate. Wheres the high scale energy manipulation feats?

Wheres the universal scale matter/energy manipulation. Thats all thats required.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

As aforementioned, he beat up on some alternate reality Galactus', his power eroded dimensional walls as he neared them, but other than that, you have nothing.

A few people from an alternate reality ended up on Earth 616 because of the blur Abraxas caused.


Dude, are you high?


Abraxas was collapsing the entire Multiverse,
and it's in his powerset to manipulate reality:


Here Reed says,

"our Earth is merging with other Alternates"...

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/3020/earthalignment8vq.th.jpg

Because the Multiverse is misaligned due to Abraxas

....................................................................................


Here Nova says,

"creatures of the MULTIVERSE Mixing --- Reality folding onto itself"

http://img318.imageshack.us/img318/2111/earthalignment26rx.th.jpg

Again this Multiversal misalignment is literally ripping the Multiverse apart.

....................................................................................


Finally what does this lead to?

Reed,

"In order to REALIGN ALL that is...we had to END ALL that was."

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7392/earthalignment39jd.th.jpg

==============================

What was MISALIGNED that NEEDED to be REALIGNED?


The MULTI-VERSE!

==============================

Reed uses the Ultimate Nullifier to banish Abraxas & Remake the Multiverse:

http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/6069/1unisusedbyreedtodestroyabraxa.th.jpg



UN Destroys the Multiverse:

http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/932/2undestroysmultieternityinfini.th.jpg



UN Remakes the Multiverse in an instant:

http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/893/3unremakesthemultiverse9jq.th.jpg

....................................................................................


UN is a Multiversal weapon ... Reed says,

"Should Abraxas reach the NULLIFIER,
He CAN OBLITERATE ALL the COMBINED REALITIES of the MULTI-VERSE"

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5568/unismulticv0.th.jpg

....................................................................................

Read, then debate friend.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Wheres the universal scale matter/energy manipulation. Thats all thats required.

Abraxas secondary bio:

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/1144/abqf3.th.jpg

"He can restructure matter and convert physical matter into pure energy ...
he has destroyed entire PLANES of Reality"




On Panel confirmation:

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3943/ab2ef3.th.jpg

"We're dealing with a being of Godlike powers,
BENDING Reality means nothing to him"

.......................................................................................

As presented above,
entire Universes were being warped by Abraxas' presence,
heck, the ENITRE Multiverse was collapsing under Abraxas' power.

Changes nothing.

Abraxas' power erodes the dimensional barriers that maintains the multiversal structure, the independence of the alternate realities of the multiverse.

He affected the structural integrity of the multiverse as he hopped from reality to reality killing alternate Galactus' because his power attacks the dimensional walls that separate realities.

Its akin to removing the keystone from a bridge thereby compromising its structural integrity making the whole bridge collapse. I could go up to a bridge and chisel away at its keystone, causing it to crumble. I could go around doing that to many bridges, one at a time.

Would it be in my power to make the entire bridge crumble at once in one sweep?

All the bridges i've gone around collapsing, could i make them all simulatenously crumble with a single exertion?

When Abraxas has been shown to be able to manipulate the matter of an entire universe at any given time, or destroy a reality in an outburst of power as opposed to attacking its foundations triggering its eventual collapse then you can equate him to the likes of Eternity and beyond.

When Abraxas has shown that he can reach out and simultaneously cause all multiversal realities to crumble as opposed to hopping from universe to universe weakening the structure, then you can count him a multiversal power.

Theres A BIG difference between role and power level. Someone can be labelled a multiversal destroyer, but that doesnt make them a multiversal power. Someone can be a universal scale power but travel from reality to reality causing destruction across the multiverse. They'd be very much universal, they'd just operate on a bigger scale.

If that same person could destroy or manipulate the matter of several universes simulatneously, THEN they would be a multiversal power.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Changes nothing.

Abraxas' power erodes the dimensional barriers that maintains the multiversal structure, the independence of the alternate realities of the multiverse.

He affected the structural integrity of the multiverse as he hopped from reality to reality killing alternate Galactus' because his power attacks the dimensional walls that separate realities.

Its akin to removing the keystone from a bridge thereby compromising its structural integrity making the whole bridge collapse. I could go up to a bridge and chisel away at its keystone, causing it to crumble. I could go around doing that to many bridges, one at a time.

Would it be in my power to make the entire bridge crumble at once in one sweep?

All the bridges i've gone around collapsing, could i make them all simulatenously crumble with a single exertion?

When Abraxas has been shown to be able to manipulate the matter of an entire universe at any given time, or destroy a reality in an outburst of power as opposed to attacking its foundations triggering its eventual collapse then you can equate him to the likes of Eternity and beyond.

When Abraxas has shown that he can reach out and simultaneously cause all multiversal realities to crumble as opposed to hopping from universe to universe weakening the structure, then you can count him a multiversal power.

Theres A BIG difference between role and power level. Someone can be labelled a multiversal destroyer, but that doesnt make them a multiversal power. Someone can be a universal scale power but travel from reality to reality causing destruction across the multiverse. They'd be very much universal, they'd just operate on a bigger scale.

If that same person could destroy or manipulate the matter of several universes simulatneously, THEN they would be a multiversal power.
The usual spin/twist/warp of the truth, even with the proof in your face,
which is why debating with you is pointless, I'm done.

I only reply for the onlookers lest one gets mixed up in your web of fallacies.

Meh, whatever. Enjoy yourself.

I'll leave this thread with the facts!

................................................................................................................

................................................................................................................


Abraxas ... his purpose if to erase the infinite Prime Multiverse from existence:



Franklin says about the Omniversal Guardian:

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4308/93557163ze0.th.jpg

"That's Roma, she's gonna help us fight the dark man" (Abraxas)

................................................................................................................

Roma (Omniversal Guardian) makes it clear:

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9166/16158189ml3.th.jpg

"And if we do not act soon ... All of Time will be lost to us"


Abraxas is a Multiversal power of Omniversal significance.
................................................................................................................



Here are Nine Universes that would later be destroyed by Abraxas:


http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/7061/35029126hu5.th.jpg

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/7800/50184278yu8.th.jpg

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/2927/69116273or2.th.jpg

"Imagine each of those Worlds like sand in an hourglass ...
an hourglass which Abraxas will shatter"

................................................................................................................


This is aside from these UniverseS Abraxas collapsed:


http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/8695/0unabraxaskillsallg3ps.th.jpg

................................................................................................................


Meh,

And Abraxas only needs to approach UniverseS to collapse them:
(he doesn't even need to attack or enter said Realities)

(the Multiverse in fact)

http://img318.imageshack.us/img318/2111/earthalignment26rx.th.jpg

"creatures of the Multiverse Mixing --- Reality folding onto itself

This ... is what brings Abraxas" (like I said, just by approaching)


........................................................................................


continues in the nest post ...

......................................................................................


Here are some Bio excerpts,
to confirm my posts which only contain the On Panel evidence:


(reference-Official Marvel Handbook 2006 - Abraxas bio)

......................................................................................


How Abraxas folds/collapses Universes:

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/4069/ab1mn4.th.jpg

"While Abraxas drew near,
the walls of dimensional space began to blur" (fold/collapse)

It goes on to explain the ramifications of Abraxas approaching Realities.

......................................................................................


We shouldn't be surprised ... it's his Job:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/9650/ab2ym8.th.jpg

Occupation: "Dimensional Destroyer"

......................................................................................


Evidently, only a power UN-like can defeat Abraxas:

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9900/abti4.th.jpg

"Realizing the danger Abraxas posed,
the FF went on a Dimension-hopping journey to recover the UN,
the One weapon that could destroy him"

......................................................................................


Indeed, Roma (Omniversal Guardian) stated the same thing On Panel:

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1483/roma1fh6.th.jpg

Roma: "It will be a weapon of unimaginable power that will WIN This day"

......................................................................................


Here Galactus says it, and Reed realizes this truth:

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/2953/u1ok8.th.jpg

Galactus: "But This Time, This Day can end ONLY one way"

Reed: "Yes .... God help me, I can see that now"

Abraxas secondary bio:

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/1144/abqf3.th.jpg

"He can restructure matter and convert physical matter into pure energy ...
he has destroyed entire PLANES of Reality"




On Panel confirmation:

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3943/ab2ef3.th.jpg

"We're dealing with a being of Godlike powers,
BENDING Reality means nothing to him"

.......................................................................................

As presented above,
entire Universes were being warped by Abraxas' presence,
heck, the ENITRE Multiverse was collapsing under Abraxas' power.

whistling

Abraxas was collapsing the entire Multiverse,
and it's in his powerset to manipulate reality:


Here Reed says,

"our Earth is merging with other Alternates"...

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/3020/earthalignment8vq.th.jpg

Because the Multiverse is misaligned due to Abraxas

....................................................................................


Here Nova says,

"creatures of the MULTIVERSE Mixing --- Reality folding onto itself"

http://img318.imageshack.us/img318/2111/earthalignment26rx.th.jpg

Again this Multiversal misalignment is literally ripping the Multiverse apart.

....................................................................................


Finally what does this lead to?

Reed,

"In order to REALIGN ALL that is...we had to END ALL that was."

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7392/earthalignment39jd.th.jpg

==============================

What was MISALIGNED that NEEDED to be REALIGNED?


The MULTI-VERSE!

==============================

Reed uses the Ultimate Nullifier to banish Abraxas & Remake the Multiverse:

http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/6069/1unisusedbyreedtodestroyabraxa.th.jpg



UN Destroys the Multiverse:

http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/932/2undestroysmultieternityinfini.th.jpg



UN Remakes the Multiverse in an instant:

http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/893/3unremakesthemultiverse9jq.th.jpg

....................................................................................


UN is a Multiversal weapon ... Reed says,

"Should Abraxas reach the NULLIFIER,
He CAN OBLITERATE ALL the COMBINED REALITIES of the MULTI-VERSE"

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5568/unismulticv0.th.jpg

....................................................................................

Originally posted by Mr Master
The usual spin/twist/warp of the truth, even with the proof in your face,
which is why debating with you is pointless, I'm done.

I only reply for the onlookers lest one gets mixed up in your web of fallacies.

Meh, whatever. Enjoy yourself.

No spin at all. So i see you've gone for your usual ploy of posting the same scans again despite the fact that they show nothing new?

Abraxas' power attacks the dimensional walls that are the structure of the multiverse. When he nears a reality that wall begins to blur.

Abraxas hopped from reality to reality, therefore walls across the multiverses were attacked. He never did it simultaneously, therefore your argument regarding him being a multiversal power is unfounded.

For example, Thanos barely posesses enough power to devastate a single planet in a single outburst of power, however because he travels all over the 616 reality and his schemes encompass and affect the reality as a whole he is classed as a universal threat, despite him far from being a universal power.

Galactus is a planet eater, however if he decided to hop around multiple realities eating planets as he saw fit then he would be classed as a multiversal threat.

Role and threat level do not necessarily equate to power level.

Abraxas did the equivalent of removing the keystone from a bridge. He affected the structural integrity of universal structures, not all at once, but one by one as he travelled taking out alternate Galactus'.

Abraxas has no high level energy manipulation feats to his name. He has done nothing to place him on a level ranking with the likes of Eternity.

What he has done however is proven himsel fto be a threat on a multiversal scale, because his schemes extend beyond a single reality.

And dozy doe your partner - durznuts

I'm done.

Originally posted by Mr Master
And dozy doe your partner - durznuts

I'm done.

Cool.

Out of the two, Lucifer is the only one who has demonstrated matter/energy manipulation abilities(when he manipulated Michaels demiurgic matter into his own creation) on a universal scale.

Lucifer FTW.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Out of the two, Lucifer is the only one who has demonstrated matter/energy manipulation abilities(when he manipulated Michaels demiurgic matter into his own creation) on a universal scale.
On a Multiversal scale, actually.

Originally posted by Galan007
On a Multiversal scale, actually.

Sorry Galan, thats a big misconception.

The Lucifer series along with GM's New X-men run and Preacher is my fave comic series of all time. I'm not just a Marvel boy

Behold

"He has never made a universe before, but he watched while it was done and he is a quick study"

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/4/9712232135.jpg

"He has no authority to permit or proscribe in my universe"

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/4/9712243787.jpg

One fansite( a well made one but a fansite nontheless) said it was a multiverse and ever since then comic fans internet wide have being saying it as well. On panel that is NOT the case.

"What I've created is not a realm. It is a totality, a Multiverse."

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/9242/lucifermultiversecs3.th.jpg


.

Originally posted by Galan007
"What I've created is not a realm. It is a totality, a Multiverse."

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/9242/lucifermultiversecs3.th.jpg


.

In the main title it makes several other references to it being a universe as well. That was a spin off i believe.

Furthermore Elaine Belloc in the end absorbs both Lucifers universe and the Yahwehs into her own, making them one.

Any other on panel references to the scale of Lucifers creation, because throughout the main title on half a dozen occassions it referred to as a universe?


It would be good to have this matter cleared up.

Originally posted by Galan007

"What I've created is not a realm. It is a totality, a Multiverse."

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/9242/lucifermultiversecs3.th.jpg


.


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
In the main title it makes several other references to it being a universe as well. That was a spin off i believe.

Furthermore Elaine Belloc in the end absorbs both Lucifers universe and the Yahwehs into her own, making them one.

Any other on panel references to the scale of Lucifers creation, because throughout the main title on half a dozen occassions it referred to as a universe?


It would be good to have this matter cleared up.
The usual spin.

Its funny how some people post perfect proof with scans, and others still reject it. Its one thing to fight where there is barely any proof, and if the 2 fighters are close in level.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
In the main title it makes several other references to it being a universe as well. That was a spin off i believe.

Furthermore Elaine Belloc in the end absorbs both Lucifers universe and the Yahwehs into her own, making them one.

Any other on panel references to the scale of Lucifers creation, because throughout the main title on half a dozen occassions it referred to as a universe?


It would be good to have this matter cleared up. I see where you're coming from...

But that is the 'most current' information we have on Lucifer's creation, -- so logically speaking, that's the information we should accept as fact.


It would be no different than if a comic were released today, which had Superman himself saying K-Nite no longer has any affect on him...

Would we just disregard that statement simply because there are statements pre-dating it, which say K-Nite has an affect on Superman? Not imo, .

Originally posted by Galan007
I see where you're coming from...

But that is the 'most current' information we have on Lucifer's creation, -- so logically speaking, that's the information we should accept as fact.


It would be no different than if a comic were released today, which had Superman himself saying K-Nite no longer has any affect on him...

Would we just disregard that statement simply because there are statements pre-dating it, which say K-Nite has an affect on Superman? Not imo, .

The Lucifer title only ended in Summer 2006, so it is a recent source and it was the main title. Throughout the title Lucifers creation was referred to as a universe. On top of that, Lucifers creation was eventually joined with Yahwehs and Elaines own, so during which timeframe is your scan set and what title is it?

Originally posted by Mr Master



The usual spin.

Spin? Dont be so bitter Emmie

The main title says "universe" consistently for 60 issues. Ive posted two instances of the universe reference. No spin present im afraid

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Lucifer title only ended in Summer 2006, so it is a recent source and it was the main title. Throughout the title Lucifers creation was referred to as a universe. On top of that, Lucifers creation was eventually joined with Yahwehs and Elaines own, so during which timeframe is your scan set and what title is it? It's in Lucifer's Nirvana, a one-shot Lucifer story, done by the Lucifer's writer, as part of the Lucifer universe.

Lucifer takes him apart.

The one shot is also collected in the final trade of Lucifer, as part of the series.

Originally posted by Juntai
It's in Lucifer's Nirvana, a one-shot Lucifer story, done by the Lucifer's writer, as part of the Lucifer universe.

Which came out in 2002 and after that time there were still universal references.

Thanks Juntai

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Which came out in 2002 and after that time there were still universal references.

Thanks Juntai Originally posted by Juntai
The one shot is also collected in the final trade of Lucifer, as part of the series.
No less canonical.

You're welcome btw.

Originally posted by Juntai
No less canonical.

And yet subsequent references in the main title if not all other references refer to the universal. The most recent and the most common references are one and the same. That speaks volumes.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Which came out in 2002 and after that time there were still universal references.


Throughout the series Universe was referenced, even after Lucifer's claim, and towards the end of the series we see that Lucifer didn't even take the time to fix flaws in the Universe and saw all the mutations that occurred because of his mistakes.

Originally posted by Mr Master



The usual spin.
He isn't spinning it this time.

Read some Vertigo Emmie.

Dont just jump on a bandwagon.

Bitterness is a bad thing

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Read some Vertigo Emmie.

Dont just jump on a bandwagon.
Read some Marvel Pino,
don't just yip yap your way around.

It's funny though,

the Mkraan is now Multiversal right GS, cause it was stated once (NEVER showing such power)

Although forever it's been Universal,
heck, even when it shattered On Panel it remade ONE Alternate Universe.

But since it was stated once to be Multiversal,
let's change history.


Now that Lucifer's Universe has been retconned through a statement,
you reject that.

Hypocrisy at it's finest.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Bitterness is a bad thing
Hypocrisy is worse imo.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Read some Marvel Pino,
don't just yip yap your way around.

It's funny though,

the Mkraan is now Multiversal right GS, cause it was stated once (NEVER showing such power)

Although forever it's been Universal,
heck, even when it shattered On Panel it remade ONE Alternate Universe.

But since it was stated once to be Multiversal,
let's change history.


Now that Lucifer's Universe has been retconned through a statement,
you reject that.

Hypocrisy at it's finest.


Hypocrisy is worse imo.

Poor Emmie.

You really need to read more Marvel comics before you start yap yapping.

Your lack of reading has lead you to believe that AOA was the only multiversal reference given to the crystal.

Sorry mate but it was also made in Exiles #60 pg 18

The Mutant X series which you're always spouting on about

X-men Emperor Vulcan

It is because of all of those consistent references to the multiversal and the fact that the handbooks refer to it as multiversal that i say it is.

Not the same at all mate. Sorry you wasted your time

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Poor Emmie.
Poor Pino.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

You really need to read more Marvel comics before you start yap yapping.

Your lack of reading has lead you to believe that AOA was the only multiversal reference given to the crystal.

Sorry mate but it was also made in Exiles #60 pg 18
It states the "Mkraan is a nexus of realities, where different universes intersect"
doesn't say anything about it having the power to destroy the Multiverse.

Nice try.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

The Mutant X series which you're always spouting on about
Really, where?

I bet it's as useless as Exiles #60
Originally posted by GalacticStorm

X-men Emperor Vulcan
Doesn't say anything about it destroying the Multiverse either.

Next.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

It is because of all of those consistent references to the multiversal
and the fact that the handbooks refer to it as multiversal that i say it is.
None of those other references say anything about Mkraan taking out the Multiverse.

Nice try yet again.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Not the same at all mate. Sorry you wasted your time
Sorry mate, On Panel the Mkraan Crystall shattered before,
guess what, only ONE Alternate Reality was affected:



Phoenix and all the X-Men try to repair the Lattice of the Mkraan ... but fail,

the Mkraan Crystal is unleashed:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6628/adventuresofthexmen1219wq0.th.jpg
.....................................................................................


One Reality (a Single universe) is affected:

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/9479/mk5bg7.th.jpg

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/2615/adventuresofthexmen1223pz1.th.jpg
.....................................................................................


Gladiator stated it threatened "All existence"

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5617/mk3uk3.th.jpg


Gladiator obviously meant "all existence" to them (their universe)
because it evidently did NOT threaten all realities/universes,
as we saw, only ONE reality/universe was affected by the Crystal.
.....................................................................................


Dweller in Darkness clears it up for us:

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/9413/mk2ek7.th.jpg

"Soon the Mkraan Crystal will shatter and That Universe will be forfeit"
.....................................................................................


But anyway

from the very beginning the Watcher stated it to be a Single Reality:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/7387/mk4ep0.th.jpg

"This is one such Universe"

Originally posted by Mr Master
Poor Pino.


It states the "Mkraan is a nexus of realities, where different universes intersect"
doesn't say anything about it having the power to destroy the Multiverse.

Nice try.


Really, where?

I bet it's as useless as Exiles #60

Doesn't say anything about it destroying the Multiverse either.

Next.


None of those other references say anything about Mkraan taking out the Multiverse.

Nice try yet again.


Sorry mate, On Panel the Mkraan Crystall shattered before,
guess what, only ONE Alternate Reality was affected:



Phoenix and all the X-Men try to repair the Lattice of the Mkraan ... but fail,

the Mkraan Crystal is unleashed:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6628/adventuresofthexmen1219wq0.th.jpg
.....................................................................................


One Reality (a Single universe) is affected:

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/9479/mk5bg7.th.jpg

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/2615/adventuresofthexmen1223pz1.th.jpg
.....................................................................................


Gladiator stated it threatened "All existence"

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5617/mk3uk3.th.jpg


Gladiator obviously meant "all existence" to them (their universe)
because it evidently did NOT threaten all realities/universes,
as we saw, only ONE reality/universe was affected by the Crystal.
.....................................................................................


Dweller in Darkness clears it up for us:

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/9413/mk2ek7.th.jpg

"Soon the Mkraan Crystal will shatter and That Universe will be forfeit"
.....................................................................................


But anyway

from the very beginning the Watcher stated it to be a Single Reality:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/7387/mk4ep0.th.jpg

"This is one such Universe"

At the end of the day mate, consistently since the AOA, the M'kraan crsytal has been classified as a multiversal nexus of realities. It does not have counterparts in every reality, there is one and if its power is unleashed it would eventually wipe out all realities in Marvel. The point is even stated in its bio. That shows that the AOA retcon is upheld as canon.

So boo-hoo all you want but theres nothing you can say that will change that. bawling

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

At the end of the day mate,
consistently since the AOA, the
M'kraan crsytal has been classified as a multiversal nexus of realities.
It does not have counterparts in every reality,
there is one
and if its power is unleashed it would eventually wipe out all realities in Marvel. The point is even stated in its bio.
That shows that the AOA retcon is upheld as canon.


Hyperbolic myth that was dismissed by On Panel evidence.

At the end of the day mate, ON PANEL,
the Mkraan shattered in an Alternate Reality,
and remade said SINGLE Alternate Reality.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9454/alternateai2.th.jpg

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

So boo-hoo all you want but theres nothing you can say that will change that.
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9454/alternateai2.th.jpg

yawn

On Panel EVIDENCE >>> unsupported, unproven hyperbolic statements.

Originally posted by Mr Master


yawn

On Panel EVIDENCE >>> unsupported, unproven hyperbolic statements by a single X-Man.

Sorry mate but you're just showing how limited your comprehension is.

The Watcher can only view the events in one universe at any one time. Be it 616 or an alternate. Hes not LT, he cant view the events in all universes simultaneously.

So in that particular comic, in one particular universe, the M'kraan crystal was unleashed.

Tell me again how that proves the M'kraan crystal isnt multiversal?

As stated in the bio and on panel, when the crystals power is unleashed in one universe, the crystals power will eventually reach all other realities and wipe them out.


So please tell us all how, you presenting a scan of Watcher observing one universe, where the crystals power was unleashed, tells us that the crystal is just universal?

You've lost the plot!

Originally posted by Mr Master

Nice try yet again.


Sorry mate, On Panel the Mkraan Crystall shattered before,
guess what, only ONE Alternate Reality was affected:



Phoenix and all the X-Men try to repair the Lattice of the Mkraan ... but fail,

the Mkraan Crystal is unleashed:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6628/adventuresofthexmen1219wq0.th.jpg
.....................................................................................


One Reality (a Single universe) is affected:

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/9479/mk5bg7.th.jpg

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/2615/adventuresofthexmen1223pz1.th.jpg
.....................................................................................


Gladiator stated it threatened "All existence"

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5617/mk3uk3.th.jpg


Gladiator obviously meant "all existence" to them (their universe)
because it evidently did NOT threaten all realities/universes,
as we saw, only ONE reality/universe was affected by the Crystal.
.....................................................................................


Dweller in Darkness clears it up for us:

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/9413/mk2ek7.th.jpg

"Soon the Mkraan Crystal will shatter and That Universe will be forfeit"
.....................................................................................


But anyway

from the very beginning the Watcher stated it to be a Single Reality:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/7387/mk4ep0.th.jpg

"This is one such Universe"

You can spin this how ever you wish.

Bottomline:

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9454/alternateai2.th.jpg

It has bee my task to observe the events of My Universe,
and those which occur in Dimensions ALONGSIDE it ...

... Parallel Worlds
where Reality DIVERGES from Ours and pursues an Alternate path.

THIS is ONE such Universe"

=====================================

This is a mirror reality that diverged from 616,
Mkraan shattered,
Mkraan remakes a SINGLE Reality.

On Panel evidence >>>> any bull shit you come up with outside of on panel evidence.

1ST PARAGRAPH"The crystal functions as a doorway, which must be kept closed in all realities, for were it to be left open in one reality.........it could potentially wipe out all realities in the mainstream multiverse and beyond"

5TH PARAGRAPH"The crystal or a previous incarnation existed in the last multiverse, and the crystals destruction at demonic hands, obliterated the entire multiverse"

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/4/9915540039.jpg

That first quote is very important. The scan Mr Master is parading around is from the comic where the crystal was opened in Galactus' universe of origins. Mr Master thinks that because the comic is just depicting what happened in that universe, that despite what we have been told many a time about the multiversal nature of the crystal, it only affected that universe

Ummm if that universe is the subject matter of that universe then surely the focus is going to be on the effects to THAT universe? Either way the bio clrifies all.

Cool

Thanks for posting scans to accompany the bio. Now the forum member scan see the comic issue the bios talking about

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

1ST PARAGRAPH"The crystal functions as a doorway, which must be kept closed in all realities, for were it to be left open in one reality.........it could potentially wipe out all realities in the mainstream multiverse and beyond"

5TH PARAGRAPH"The crystal or a previous incarnation existed in the last multiverse, and the crystals destruction at demonic hands, obliterated the entire multiverse"

That first quote is very important. The scan Mr Master is parading around is from the comic where the crystal was opened in Galactus' universe of origins. Mr Master thinks that because the comic is just depicting what happened in that universe, that despite what we have been told many a time about the multiversal nature of the crystal, it only affected that universe

Ummm if that universe is the subject matter of that universe then surely the focus is going to be on the effects to THAT universe? Either way the bio clrifies all.
hysterical2

I can't believe you're trying to use a bio versus clear On Panel evidence,
wow, your LOW knows no bounds,
anything to get someone, anyone to agree with your delusional ideas.

Bottomline ... ON PANEL --- HAPPENING - ACTION!!!!

Originally posted by Mr Master

Phoenix and all the X-Men try to repair the Lattice of the Mkraan ... but fail,

the Mkraan Crystal is unleashed:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6628/adventuresofthexmen1219wq0.th.jpg
.....................................................................................


One Reality (a Single universe) is affected:

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/9479/mk5bg7.th.jpg

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/2615/adventuresofthexmen1223pz1.th.jpg
.....................................................................................


But anyway

from the very beginning the Watcher stated it to be a Single Reality:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/7387/mk4ep0.th.jpg

"This is one such Universe"



ONE Reality is all the Mkraan Crystal is able to destroy/remake On Panel.

But fantasize all you want in your own mind GS.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Thanks for posting scans to accompany the bio.
Now the forum member scan see the comic issue the bios talking about
Right, the forum members know that the Mkraan Crystal shattered ONCE On Panel,
and it remade a SINGLE Reality that diverged from 616.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9454/alternateai2.th.jpg

It has bee my task to observe the events of My Universe,
and those which occur in Dimensions ALONGSIDE it ...

... Parallel Worlds
where Reality DIVERGES from Ours and pursues an Alternate path.

THIS is ONE such Universe"


whistling

Spin it all you want.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

"The crystal functions as a doorway, which must be kept closed in all realities, for were it to be left open in one reality.........it could potentially wipe out all realities in the mainstream multiverse and beyond"
Hyperbolic bio gibberish as creditable as Phoenix saved Galactus.

On Panel ... Mkraan Crystal = power to remake ONE Universe.

Bios only have merit if they're confirmed on panel,
otherwise it's either theories or plain hyperbole.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm

"The crystal or a previous incarnation existed in the last multiverse,
and the crystals destruction at demonic hands,
obliterated the entire multiverse"
durlaugh

Originally posted by Mr Master
Hyperbolic bio gibberish as creditable as Phoenix saved Galactus.

On Panel ... Mkraan Crystal = power to remake ONE Universe.

Bios only have merit if they're confirmed on panel,
otherwise it's either theories or plain hyperbole.

durlaugh

Sorry to burst your bubble mate, but the crystal crystallised the 616 timeline, along with the AOA timeline and its affects were felt across the multiverse.

When AOA was going on and the crystal was slowly destroying that reality, its explosive power swept across the omniverse:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/4/9916320235.jpg

New Son rode the destructive waves to travel from reality to reality.

Gotta love and leave ya mate.

Ciao!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Sorry to burst your bubble mate, but the crystal crystallised the 616 timeline, along with the AOA timeline and its affects were felt across the multiverse.

When AOA was going on and the crystal was slowly destroying that reality, its explosive power swept across the omniverse:

New Son rode the destructive waves to travel from reality to reality.

Phoenix and all the X-Men try to repair the Lattice of the Mkraan ... but fail,

the Mkraan Crystal is unleashed:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6628/adventuresofthexmen1219wq0.th.jpg
.....................................................................................


One Reality (a Single universe) is affected:

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/9479/mk5bg7.th.jpg

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/2615/adventuresofthexmen1223pz1.th.jpg
.....................................................................................


Dweller in Darkness clears it up for us:

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/9413/mk2ek7.th.jpg

"Soon the Mkraan Crystal will shatter and That Universe will be forfeit"
.....................................................................................


But anyway

from the very beginning the Watcher stated it to be a Single Reality:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/7387/mk4ep0.th.jpg

"This is one such Universe"