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"all aspects of your kids' lives could be put on a database to make sure you are an adequate parent"

Good. This will create less ******* kids in the world that grew up without parents. Should cut crime.

"and if you don't agree with a government policy you may be surveilled and placed on an anti-terrorist database."

That is a subtle way of putting it. If by "Dont agree with" you mean "riots and becomes a threat to the nation" then I dont see a problem with that. You act like if someone is talking to their friend and says "this war is bullshit" they will have the CIA ramming probes up their ass.

"The information gathered will not be available to you but will be available to the government and the government's intelligence personnel."

Ok...what information will they gather about me that I dont already know? Do they know what toilet paper I am using and they wont tell me?

"Is all that OK so long as you have "nothing to hide"? Are you comfortable with that?"

Yeah, because I have nothing to hide. And the people that do have stuff to hide will be caught.

Originally posted by KidRock

Yeah, because I have nothing to hide. And the people that do have stuff to hide will be caught.

I think you are living in a fantasy world were bad things only happen to bad people. The Heroes save the day and all the bad guys get caught and their is no injustice in the world.

Ban deano.

I thought there was a conspiracy theory forum that we made to stash your looneyness away? Stay there.

Originally posted by Deano
As Long As You're Not Doing Anything Wrong, You Have Nothing To Worry About

its the great fallacy of any dictatorship. a great topic imho
pity its a deano thread though
*leaves*

Ah think of the benefits! With a good ski-mask on you can get to moon you government at every streetcorner. That off course untill they develop 'butt-scan software' but that's for the far future.

Originally posted by Captain REX
I thought there was a conspiracy theory forum that we made to stash your looneyness away? Stay there.

yeh im going to listen to you arent i.

either stay on topic or dont speak. simple.

if you have a problem, report me

Originally posted by Captain REX
I thought there was a conspiracy theory forum that we made to stash your looneyness away? Stay there.

How is this a looney concept? Deano is right; it is the classic response of any fool when they are confronted with a set of directives that are overt attempts at gaining greater control of individual 'freedom'.

Sometimes, I think Deano gets a rough deal just because he chooses to believe in a different reality to some people. I don't agree with a lot the sources of his opinions, but when he comes up with a legitimate topic, let's discuss it. It's too easy to just lump it with all the other conspiracy stuff. Especially when this one has evidence backing-up how it is irrefutably based in our shared reality.

Deano, even when you're right about something, you're irritating. Please go away. Or at least write your own damn posts.

Still ... "As long as you're not a criminal, you shouldn't mind being treated like one." Yeh...

I'm not saying that it's a looney concept. I'm just saying that Deano is a loon in general, and that I've grown to ignore everything he says.

Anyways, reporting this thread for being in the wrong section.

Yeah I hate how this line of thought leaves out people like me, who dont break the law but still dont want the government snooping on my phone calls and accessing my information.

Originally posted by Gregory
Deano, even when you're right about something, you're irritating. Please go away. Or at least write your own damn posts.

Still ... "As long as you're not a criminal, you shouldn't mind being treated like one." Yeh...

and you are irritating to me, so leave the thread then please.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
How is this a looney concept? Deano is right; it is the classic response of any fool when they are confronted with a set of directives that are overt attempts at gaining greater control of individual 'freedom'.

Sometimes, I think Deano gets a rough deal just because he chooses to believe in a different reality to some people. I don't agree with a lot the sources of his opinions, but when he comes up with a legitimate topic, let's discuss it. It's too easy to just lump it with all the other conspiracy stuff. Especially when this one has evidence backing-up how it is irrefutably based in our shared reality.

cheers krunk. a bit of common sense from the rest would be good aswell. its funny how they are quick to call me names and be offensive but cant see how patetic they are being in the process, and therefore,looking an idiot themselves. i dont mind but thats what happens to people who dont fall in line with the official view. everyone here thinks they are special because they have there little buddys to come and back them up. it makes them feel good.

Originally posted by Captain REX
I'm not saying that it's a looney concept. I'm just saying that Deano is a loon in general, and that I've grown to ignore everything he says.

Anyways, reporting this thread for being in the wrong section.

yeh im a loon. great analysis. you hurt me.

and its no conspiracy though is it you fool. its a real issue. so shut up and leave if you cant handle it. ive said it before.

People who use words in bold in their posts to point out their opinions are classic examples of weak debators.

Originally posted by Deano
cheers krunk. a bit of common sense from the rest would be good aswell. its funny how they are quick to call me names and be offensive but cant see how patetic they are being in the process, and therefore,looking an idiot themselves. i dont mind but thats what happens to people who dont fall in line with the official view. everyone here thinks they are special because they have there little buddys to come and back them up. it makes them feel good.I find it odd you don't sense the irony in your own posts. It's not only the things you post but the way in which you post them that make you irritating. The way in which you are quick to label everyone that doesn't draw your conclusions and prescribe to your philosophy.

Everyone is a sheep. Everyone is blind. Everyone is a follower.

Except of course for you.

This may be a legitimate thread. It may not have any conspiracy tangent that you're ready and waiting to proclaim. But the fact that it's your topic, and that it's largely copy/paste material, makes it lose credibility as a legitimate thread.

"As long as you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about." is the mantra of the naive. My contribution to the thread. Enjoy.

Another old saying is "You reap what you sow."

Last time you told me to leave your thread, the thread died immediately after I did. Are you sure you want to risk it?

Originally posted by Gregory
Last time you told me to leave your thread, the thread died immediately after I did.

Frankly... If the poster and/or topic annoyes you why do you waste your time? I am sure you have better things to do.

Deano annoys me, yes. But since he rarely bothers to participate meaningfully in his own threads, it's not like I'm picking a conversation with him by posting here. And the topic doesn't annoy me; I think it's quite important.

I just think that Deano brings a bit of conspiracy-theory paranoia to any topic he touches. For example, he mentions that the government is using the anti-terrorist database to track peaceful war protests! What an outrage! I'll just click on the link to get the details and ... uh ... I see by your link, Deano, that they've deleted well over a hundred of these entries, purged over a thousand more, and officially appologised.

The horror, the horror!

Just lines later, Deano claims that "and if you don't agree with a government policy you may be surveilled and placed on an anti-terrorist database." Of course, he's free not to believe the government when they say they're not doing this any more, but to act like it's a fact that it's still going on is just dishonest.

As I said, this is an important topic. Too damn important to let conspiracy theory nutbars lead the debate.

Well, then... Gregory... What's you thoughts ON the topic then?

My thoughts on the phrase, "As Long As You're Not Doing Anything Wrong, You Have Nothing To Worry About"? I gave them in my first post, second paragraph.

Originally posted by Gregory
Deano annoys me, yes. But since he rarely bothers to participate meaningfully in his own threads, it's not like I'm picking a conversation with him by posting here. And the topic doesn't annoy me; I think it's quite important.

I just think that Deano brings a bit of conspiracy-theory paranoia to any topic he touches. For example, he mentions that the government is using the anti-terrorist database to track peaceful war protests! What an outrage! I'll just click on the link to get the details and ... uh ... I see by your link, Deano, that they've deleted well over a hundred of these entries, purged over a thousand more, and officially appologised.

The horror, the horror!

Just lines later, Deano claims that "and if you don't agree with a government policy you may be surveilled and placed on an anti-terrorist database." Of course, he's free not to believe the government when they say they're not doing this any more, but to act like it's a fact that it's still going on is just dishonest.

As I said, this is an important topic. Too damn important to let conspiracy theory nutbars lead the debate.

i dont participate because im too busy replying to idiots who are trying to ruin the thread eg: you.

you know what you are doing here, you have no intention of staying on topic.

the thread is simple enough. surely you are not that stupid

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I find it odd you don't sense the irony in your own posts. It's not only the things you post but the way in which you post them that make you irritating. The way in which you are quick to label everyone that doesn't draw your conclusions and prescribe to your philosophy.

Everyone is a sheep. Everyone is blind. Everyone is a follower.

Except of course for you.

This may be a legitimate thread. It may not have any conspiracy tangent that you're ready and waiting to proclaim. But the fact that it's your topic, and that it's largely copy/paste material, makes it lose credibility as a legitimate thread.

"As long as you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about." is the mantra of the naive. My contribution to the thread. Enjoy.

Another old saying is "You reap what you sow."


oh and people like you are not quick to label me? dont be a hypocrite. yes my beliefs are different. get over it. i only reply in a hostile manner when people continue to stray off topic and poo poo everything they read. if you dont believe in something then fine, state why in a nice manner and leave. but everytime i postt a thread, i dont wanna have to keep hearing the same idiots spout abusive babble. i dont do it when you make a thread, so i expect the same courtesy.

and again,reply properly on topic or continue to be an idiot. your choice. i didnt ask for your babble. if you dont like my thread or think theres something wrong, then report me. ok? got it?

good

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

I think this is a legitimate thread topic, but unfortunately Deano shot himself in the foot by, well, being Deano.

if people are too pathetic to approach the thread in a respectful manner..well thats not my problem

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15716.htm

Just wanted some more to your thread.

Well, even though I didn't read the whole post, I agree with Deano's general point that even if you don't have anything to hide, unwarranted wiretaps and illegal surveillance are no good thing.

Big Brother: Watching, Listening And Shouting


in an amazing story, that was passed over as if completely by-the-by, it was revealed over the weekend that London police and councils are considering monitoring our conversations in the street using high-powered microphones attached to CCTV cameras.

The microphones, which are already in use in the Netherlands, can pick up "aggressive tones" on the basis of 12 factors, including decibel level, pitch and the speed at which words are spoken. They are so advanced that background noise is filtered out, enabling the camera to focus on specific conversations in public places.'

http://www.infowars.net/articles/november2006/281106BB.htm

The "streets" are not a private area. They were built and maintained by the government.

Hmm I don't live in London or the Netherlands. So I suppose I can continue to shout on the streets my plans to dethrone the lizard Queen and destroy her batch of mindcontrol flu shots.

u dont even have to shout my dear. they will be listening to you anyway.

You mean our conversations in a public area will be ... public?

Fascism!

I'm neutral on this issue suprisingly. See, I'm very opinionated. But I can understand the concern for both sides.

What keeps me from being against it:
We've been taught from the time we're small justice is blind, what if it wasn't? What if we could see the rapists, the murderers, the prostitututes, and all the other hanus people commiting thier misdeeds in action and have them punished accordingly? Immagine how much easier it would be for divorcing parents to get full custodey when there is videotape of the husband or wife being a cheating-****! It's deffinitely got some upsides..

What keeps me from being for it:
Anything that gives you an advantage, opens a door for gross abuse. Immagine it's not Judge Dredd with the camera, but some wierdo who gets his knocksoff watching you use the bathroom. Or a former enemy who's waiting to tape you and take the tape out of context to have you arrested. Or even just a law that shouldn't be illegal to begin with. (Gay sex anyone?) And *Boom!* You're trialed..

I don't think i'm a centrist by any means, but I try to be reasonable. If atleast for my own sake. I don't want to live in 1984, but I deffinitely don't want to live in A Brave New World. (Which is what would happen if the democrats got thier wish.)

I fear eventualy I will have to make a choice however, nowhere in life can you dodge something forever. Eventualy you have to face the music. We read comic books, it's like Marvel's Civil War. Eventualy we're all going to have to choose sides. We're going to find people we would've loved in a differant time being our worse enemies, and people we would've hated being our closest allies. All for our own safety, pleasure, and liberties. When you get right down to it there's only three priorities:

Liberty.
Equality.
Stability.

Before you can expect to change the world according to your priorities, you first have to discover your own priorties. And that in itself could take awhile.

Careful now, you're one word away from being like France. Wouldn't want that to happen.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Careful now, you're one word away from being like France. Wouldn't want that to happen.

Croissant?

I was actually thinking "Fraternity", bur "Croissant" will do.

Strength through unity, bitches.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I was actually thinking "Fraternity", bur "Croissant" will do.

Damn, that was my second pick... So close.

Originally posted by Gregory
You mean our conversations in a public area will be ... public?

Fascism!

yes it is a public area. doesnt mean i want people listening to me and my girlfriend having a conversation.

so u wud happily allow fellow citizens on the street to listen in on your phone calls and conversations?

again u miss the point as always

Originally posted by Deano
yes it is a public area. doesnt mean i want people listening to me and my girlfriend having a conversation.

so u wud happily allow fellow citizens on the street to listen in on your phone calls and conversations?

again u miss the point as always

The 1984 song hit "Somebody's Wathcing Me" by Rockwell comes to mind...

The Chorus:

I always feel that somebody's watchin' me
And I have no privacy
I always feel that somebody's watchin' me
Is it just a dream?
When I come home at night
I bolt the door real tight
People call me on the phone I'm trying to avoid
Well, can the people on TV see me or am I just paranoid

Originally posted by Deano
yes it is a public area. doesnt mean i want people listening to me and my girlfriend having a conversation.

so u wud happily allow fellow citizens on the street to listen in on your phone calls and conversations?

again u miss the point as always

I would not make private phone calls or have secret conversations on the street, no. If my fellow citizens want to listen to me make appointments by phone in public areas, I only hope it brings them joy.

What you want is completely irrelevent. You want to be able to hold private conversations in public areas, and it's too damn bad for you.

Not to mention the somewhat hilarious suggestion that the government cares what you have to say to your girlfriend.

Originally posted by Gregory
I would not make private phone calls or have secret conversations on the street, no. If my fellow citizens want to listen to me make appointments by phone in public areas, I only hope it brings them joy.

What you want is completely irrelevent. You want to be able to hold private conversations in public areas, and it's too damn bad for you.

Not to mention the somewhat hilarious suggestion that the government cares what you have to say to your girlfriend.

but u still woudnt want people comin up and listening to you..whateva kind of conversation you are having.

its invasion of privacy. simple as that

Originally posted by Deano
but u still woudnt want people comin up and listening to you..whateva kind of conversation you are having.

its invasion of privacy. simple as that

I believe his point is, if you're are talking on the street, it really isn't a "private" conversation. Just like you couldn't have sex with your girlfriend on a park bench and claim it is the same as having sex in the privacy of your own home.

Originally posted by Deano

its invasion of privacy. simple as that
Yes it is, but what entitles you to privacy?

Speaking from a tottaly neutral standpoint of God given rights vs ammendmant given rights, we're not entitled to anything. We're only entitled to what our hands and minds can obtain. Survival of the fittest. In nowhere in nature or in Holy doctrine is there any indication you have a right to privacy. My concern against this is not my privacy being invaded, but rather who's in control of my privacy. Is it going to be some stern cop who is seeking our deviance to punish?

Or is it going to be some turd who wants to wrongfuly accuse me cause I cut him off, or some perv that wants to getoff on me?

I don't know what it is with people now, especialy Americans that think they're entitled to all these things. You didn't work a day in your life to deserve them, and yet you're going to tell me that you're entitled to privacy.

Originally posted by Green Arrow
Yes it is, but what entitles you to privacy?

I don't know what it is with people now, especialy Americans that think they're entitled to all these things. You didn't work a day in your life to deserve them, and yet you're going to tell me that you're entitled to privacy.

Forget about the word entitlement and remember the Govt is simply a tool for the people, by the people and most importantly PAID for by the people.

If the Govt decides to place surveilance cameras on all streets etc etc looking to better society as a whole by "punishing" the majority to control the minority I have a problem with that and anyone with resonable intelligence should as well.

Not to mention once again the money for the surveilance comes from where again, thats right the citizens.

I never do anything wrong, and yet things keeps attacking me......

Originally posted by debbiejo
I never do anything wrong, and yet things keeps attacking me......
Don't be too quick to say that you're free of wrongdoing...I've seen--and encountered--your posting habits.

I wouldn't want them to, no. But I'd recognize that I have no inherent right to complete privacy in public areas. If the government were doing this to listen into people's homes, then it really would be as "simple as that." As it is, it's rather more complicated then you're making it out to be.

Originally posted by debbiejo
I never do anything wrong, and yet things keeps attacking me......
I'll protect you debbie, let me just find my cuddle-arrow..

Originally posted by Gregory
I wouldn't want them to, no. But I'd recognize that I have no inherent right to complete privacy in public areas. If the government were doing this to listen into people's homes, then it really would be as "simple as that." As it is, it's rather more complicated then you're making it out to be.

Dude as it stands right now the govt could shadow you all day and take pictures, bam there you go.

The dumbest thing any citizen can do is to nod his head with giving away freedoms with a smile while thinking I am going to get additional protection, wahoo.

If they can do it anyway, why bother getting all uppity over an abstract concept?

Originally posted by Soleran
Dude as it stands right now the govt could shadow you all day and take pictures, bam there you go.

The dumbest thing any citizen can do is to nod his head with giving away freedoms with a smile while thinking I am going to get additional protection, wahoo.

You never had the freedom not to be overheard in public areas. You are not "giving away freedoms." And you're wrong; the worst thing a citizen could do is give into mindless paranoia such that he can't tell the difference between a nuisance and a real threat.

Originally posted by Soleran

The dumbest thing any citizen can do is to nod his head with giving away freedoms with a smile while thinking I am going to get additional protection, wahoo.

Followed closely by the second dumbest thing a person can do, which is argue for his conversations and actions to be totally secret (as if it changes the importance and meaning of those conversations with whom the person is having them with) and then bawl like a baby when the person he talked to on the phone and made love to in his own house is killed by a terrorist bomb that came from a few men living in his home town!

Originally posted by Gregory
You never had the freedom not to be overheard in public areas. You are not "giving away freedoms." And you're wrong; the worst thing a citizen could do is give into mindless paranoia such that he can't tell the difference between a nuisance and a real threat.
I agree here. Terrorism is a nuisance, not a threat. This is why neo-cons bug the hell out of me. Ronald Regan wouldn't have suggested going to war and spending a kabillion dollars to fix the middle-east.

He would've lowerd gun regulation laws, made them easier to comeby, and arm every man, woman, and child with a small firearm. That way, if they see a terrorist, they shoot them. True this could have.. chaotic consequinces.. but let's face it, if you know the guy next to you probably has a gun, you're not going to start shit you can't finish.

Originally posted by Gregory
You never had the freedom not to be overheard in public areas. You are not "giving away freedoms." And you're wrong; the worst thing a citizen could do is give into mindless paranoia such that he can't tell the difference between a nuisance and a real threat.

Being overheard in public places is a FAR cry from recording EVERYONE and EVERYTHING. If the Govt wants to scan an area and observe behaviors to identify possible villains great do it but to blanket an area with an electronic eye is ridiculous.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Followed closely by the second dumbest thing a person can do, which is argue for his conversations and actions to be totally secret (as if it changes the importance and meaning of those conversations with whom the person is having them with) and then bawl like a baby when the person he talked to on the phone and made love to in his own house is killed by a terrorist bomb that came from a few men living in his home town!




UH huh yeah I am not against wiretaps and listening/recording conversations in general. What I am very opposed to is allowing the Govt or Anyone for that matter to arbitrarily select someone and listen without fair cause and due process.

Originally posted by Green Arrow
I agree here. Terrorism is a nuisance, not a threat. This is why neo-cons bug the hell out of me. Ronald Regan wouldn't have suggested going to war and spending a kabillion dollars to fix the middle-east.

He would've lowerd gun regulation laws, made them easier to comeby, and arm every man, woman, and child with a small firearm. That way, if they see a terrorist, they shoot them. True this could have.. chaotic consequinces.. but let's face it, if you know the guy next to you probably has a gun, you're not going to start shit you can't finish.

the only terrorism i see is from our own governments. in the the world today, it is full of hyped up 'monsters 'and 'dangerous people' a focus of fear from which we must look to our 'leaders' to save us. the fact that these 'monsters'and our 'leaders' are both appointed and controlled by the same force is kept from us. we are programmed to see two 'sides', largely projected as 'good and evil', when there are not two sides, but one.

Deano, have you read Atlas Shrugged?

SO WILL DER STILL BE HOMOSEXULS?

HUH?










Get a life dude. And stop trying to stop those who would stop those who try to take mine.

Originally posted by Green Arrow
You didn't work a day in your life to deserve them, and yet you're going to tell me that you're entitled to privacy.

Ever hear about how animals are territorial?

It's natural for humans to want privacy. It's engrained in our DNA.

Stfu now please.

hey, ever play that rpg 'dumb sock troll who everybody hates' ?

its wicked fun

It's a glorified traffic camera, is what it is. It's not like recording things that go on in public is anything new; I hope dear Deano has never had a conversation with his girlfriend in an English train station, because those are already electrically monitered.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Don't be too quick to say that you're free of wrongdoing...I've seen--and encountered--your posting habits. It's called Spice......spice....spice.........It's not a sin and it's wrong.........It's just different....

bless your heart

Grandpa is that you???

Originally posted by Deano
the only terrorism i see is from our own governments. in the the world today, it is full of hyped up 'monsters 'and 'dangerous people' a focus of fear from which we must look to our 'leaders' to save us. the fact that these 'monsters'and our 'leaders' are both appointed and controlled by the same force is kept from us. we are programmed to see two 'sides', largely projected as 'good and evil', when there are not two sides, but one. You say you want this to be a legitimate general discussion thread, you whine about people not taking it seriously and assuming it's just another copy-paste (which it was) conspiracy thread, yet you post things like this alluding to massive conspiracy (just as you always have).

This "Inavsion OF Privacy" and excess surveillance might be okay to some people in the hand of the Government (Not me though). But, what do people feel about said policy's and surveilance in the hands of Private company's and Big business in general. There are companies that are planing to install Microphones in TV and computers so they can moniter and Psychoanalyze their consumers as a form of extreme advertisizing. There are even collaborations between government and big business in oberserving or spying (Which ever one you wish to use) on americans. Even bush has admitted that there are wiretaps on american phone lines, and cell phones, cars,a dn other electronic devices have GPS installed into them. Now like I said, you may feel okay with the government performing "Observations" on us, but, what about Private industry with corporate agenda's doing the same and collaborating with the government?

Yeah, if someone is going to invade me they need my permission!!

Who's up for invading Debs?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Originally posted by botankus
Who's up for invading Debs?


Dibs on the dirt-box...

edit that out............potty mouth.

Originally posted by debbiejo
edit that out............potty mouth.

Two reasons why I can't/won't

1) The 15 minute window escaped me.

2) You loved it.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You say you want this to be a legitimate general discussion thread, you whine about people not taking it seriously and assuming it's just another copy-paste (which it was) conspiracy thread, yet you post things like this alluding to massive conspiracy (just as you always have).

yeh i copied and pasted the info from the website. and i wanted opinions on the matter. problem?

stay on topic please

Us folks in England must reject the ID Card if we do not the next thing will be the RFID chip inserted into your body, and that is state control. No thank you, you control freak Mr Blair.

Originally posted by Koenig
Us folks in England must reject the ID Card if we do not the next thing will be the RFID chip inserted into your body, and that is state control. No thank you, you control freak Mr Blair.
Wrong, by not being cooperative you're giving them no choice but to put chips in your body. What's wrong with an ID card? Do you seriously think they're just going to say "okay, the people want to be assholes, let's just giveup."

No, retaliation is met with more retaliation. By getting uppity over a stupid card, the goverment's going to think "these monkies are just stupid and arrogant, they can't even settle for a stupid plastic card, let's just tag them and if they get rowdy zap them."

You want liberty? Prove you're capable of handeling it.

''yes but if your not doing anything wrong''..... will come the reply

http://www.davidicke.com/images/stories/December%202006/tbankersdees.jpg

http://www.yoto98.noaa.gov/books/whales/blue1.gif
doped