Starfire Vs Namor

Devil Lance

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Sunfire took some hits from Titannus, who is Thanos level. I'd place Sunfire near Starfire's level of strength, though not quite there. And Starfire was at full power in 52. I'd like to see some references where she moves lightspeed. In fact, I'd like to know where she stalemated Donna. Not that I doubt that she could, since Donna as WG was only like at the level of Superboy when he first started out, but I'd like to see it for later reference.

Namor's also beaten The Human Torch, BTW. Minus her fireblasts, Namor would take her a solid majority. I'm just not convinced that her fire would ENTIRELY make up for the large strength/durability difference.

roll eyes (sarcastic)

I'm not taliking about Donna as WG although Kori has betaen he rbefor eas wg many times

I'm talking about in the Return of Donna Troy #3 Starfire stalemated Donna who had gotten a power boost from the titans of myth.

and yes starfire was at low power dring 52
see http://img400.imageshack.us/my.php?image=page00008yz4.jpg

Starfire can also nova blast Namor
since her nova blast ko'ed her sister and destroyed Braniac's Nattle ship during the Outsiders Teen Titans crossover the Insiders

Starfire wins 7-8/10

Jimmy-Chan

Originally posted by Devil Lance
roll eyes (sarcastic)

I'm not taliking about Donna as WG although Kori has betaen he rbefor eas wg many times

I'm talking about in the Return of Donna Troy #3 Starfire stalemated Donna who had gotten a power boost from the titans of myth.

I'll DL it some time. That sounds high end for her.

Originally posted by Devil Lance

and yes starfire was at low power dring 52
see http://img400.imageshack.us/my.php?image=page00008yz4.jpg

Um, you realize WHY her power was low there, right? Because they'd been in space for a WEEK. They were moving further from the sun, meaning she had less power to absorb. She was at full power when it was stated that she's nowhere near the translight speeds needed to take them home.

Now then, when has she been stated as able to move light speed?

Originally posted by Devil Lance
Starfire can also nova blast Namor
since her nova blast ko'ed her sister and destroyed Braniac's Nattle ship during the Outsiders Teen Titans crossover the Insiders

OTOH, Superman took her blast to no effect, and it barely phased Orion. I put Namor's durability near theirs. Those weren't novas, but she was attacking them all-out. As for Braniac's battleship, we don't know how durable it is as no one else of any great power level tried to break it. In the same story, armored Lex Luthor whupped Starfire. As for her sister, isn't she like the same strength level as Starfire, namely significantly weaker than Namor?

Originally posted by Devil Lance
Starfire wins 7-8/10

Not seeing it. Namor has a history of fighting foes with similar heat blasts and flight, and he's quite a bit stronger/more durable than Starfire.

Let's get one thing straight at least: the only reason I'm not giving Namor 7-8/10 is because he has a weakness to being dehydrated. I can see her exploiting that for some wins, even though he has a history of dealing with powerful fire-based foes. However, it's obvious that his strength is leagues above Kory's.

Jimmy-Chan

BTW, I checked one of those links ... And LOL @ someone mentioning that Starfire "fought" Orion. She got really POed about Orion KOing Risk and sucker-blasted him. He easily shrugged off her blast (he was even talking as she poured it on) and took her out with one shot of Astro-Force. That's one of the worst showings to reference if you want to claim Kory's strength is in Namor's league.

Personally, I put Starfire's strength somewhere above Ms. Marvel, but below Knockout. So class 60-70ish Marvel terms. Namor's more like a low-end class 100.

UniOmni

Namor beats her senseless.

She stalemates Wondergirl............So what?

Namor would impregnate Wonder Girl, Donna Troy!!

She doesn't hold her own against Diana. She pesters Diana.

And i'd give Namor 4/10 vs Diana anyday.

Starfire is only lightspeed in space. She's never shown the capabilities while on Earth.

Her best bet would be to use the Nova blast that she used on Brainiac 13 in The Insiders.

Outside of that, she gets beaten brutally.

Jimmy-Chan

Actually, she did pretty well against WW. But that was high end and not representative of her average. She didn't looked so good against Superman, Orion, Captain Marvel, or Sabbac. Personally, I'd give Namor an even split with WW if she had no lasso. With her lasso, I'd give WW a slight edge over Namor.

UniOmni

Diana was trying to talk down an enraged Starfire.

Its like me dealing with any angry younger cousin. I could onepunch the little bastard, but since i care about her, i'll simply let her vent, and wait it out.

Thats pretty much all Wonder Woman did.

Devil Lance

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Actually, she did pretty well against WW. But that was high end and not representative of her average. She didn't looked so good against Superman, Orion, Captain Marvel, or Sabbac. Personally, I'd give Namor an even split with WW if she had no lasso. With her lasso, I'd give WW a slight edge over Namor.

wow then you know very little about wonder woman then roll eyes (sarcastic)

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by Devil Lance
wow then you know very little about wonder woman then roll eyes (sarcastic)

IT seems you are correct, WW would beat the tar out of Namor every time.

Devil Lance

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
I'll DL it some time. That sounds high end for her.

Um, you realize WHY her power was low there, right? Because they'd been in space for a WEEK. They were moving further from the sun, meaning she had less power to absorb. She was at full power when it was stated that she's nowhere near the translight speeds needed to take them home.

Now then, when has she been stated as able to move light speed?

OTOH, Superman took her blast to no effect, and it barely phased Orion. I put Namor's durability near theirs. Those weren't novas, but she was attacking them all-out. As for Braniac's battleship, we don't know how durable it is as no one else of any great power level tried to break it. In the same story, armored Lex Luthor whupped Starfire. As for her sister, isn't she like the same strength level as Starfire, namely significantly weaker than Namor?

Not seeing it. Namor has a history of fighting foes with similar heat blasts and flight, and he's quite a bit stronger/more durable than Starfire.

Let's get one thing straight at least: the only reason I'm not giving Namor 7-8/10 is because he has a weakness to being dehydrated. I can see her exploiting that for some wins, even though he has a history of dealing with powerful fire-based foes. However, it's obvious that his strength is leagues above Kory's.

laughing

You put Namors durability near supermans laughing

seriously

please tell me your joking sad

Superman is so more durable then Namor it isn't even funny

Now on to your other illinformed points

1. no one on the outsiders or Teen Titans had been able too take out Braniac's ship. Starfire was the only one who could do it. Also Branica himself wa sko'ed by nova blast

2. blackfire was amped up by Omar Syan before the fight so much so that she was able to take out both sift and Jade and Shift of the Outsiders before falling to Starfire . Blackfire even with Omar Syans power up was in awe of Starfire's nova blast.

3. now on to your points on Supreman and Orion. The two altercations between Starfire and Superman that I can recal is one in teen titans and another in superman/batman.

In the teen titans issue Starfire blasted Superman and he just took it it however Starfire wasobviously not trying to injure him.

Now the Superman Batman issue . Thats just anothe rexample of Jeph Loebs horrible writing He ha d Superman act lik he had never met Starfiree bfore which is not true at all.

now in the jLA Techinis imperative which I assume is the Orion and Starfire fight your taling about it seemed like to me that starfire was matching the astrofforce with her starbolst for a bit and that wasn't even he rmost powerful attack.

Now on the Lex Lutor fight again that was writen by Jeph Loeb however Lex gave Supergirl and superman good fights in that armor also Starfie wa sbale to catch up to supergirl in flight even though Supergirl left a while before Starfire did which speaks voluwms about Starfires folight speed.

I still give Starfire the majority 7-8/10

UniOmni

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
IT seems you are correct, WW would beat the tar out of Namor every time.

Not true.

WW with her gear>> Namor in his wetsuit.

WW at her peak, no gear vs Namor in his wetsuit = stalemate.

SpunkySmurph

Originally posted by UniOmni
Not true.

WW with her gear>> Namor in his wetsuit.

WW at her peak, no gear vs Namor in his wetsuit = stalemate.

laughing

...

snoopdogg

Originally posted by UniOmni

WW at her peak, no gear vs Namor in his wetsuit = stalemate. eek!

WTF!

UniOmni

Whats so funny about that conclusion?

Jimmy-Chan

Originally posted by Devil Lance
laughing

You put Namors durability near supermans laughing

seriously

please tell me your joking sad

Superman is so more durable then Namor it isn't even funny

Do you have ANY basis for such a statement other than preconceived notions? I'm going by Namor's performances against people such as:

*The Hulk
*Thor
*Iron Man
*The Silver Surfer
*Wonder Man
*Hercules
*The Thing
*Captain Mar-Vell
*War Machine
*Shrugging off The In-Betweener's attack, despite the fact that it KOed She-Hulk

He has been portrayed as an equal to The Hulk ON LAND before. Saying he is nowhere near Superman is to say that Thor is not a peer to Supes.

Originally posted by Devil Lance

Now on to your other illinformed points

1. no one on the outsiders or Teen Titans had been able too take out Braniac's ship. Starfire was the only one who could do it. Also Branica himself wa sko'ed by nova blast

No one else of a high power level TRIED to take it out and I don't see any evidence of Braniac being KOed. In fact, Starfire lost to the Braniac that inhabited Indigo's body.

Originally posted by Devil Lance
2. blackfire was amped up by Omar Syan before the fight so much so that she was able to take out both sift and Jade and Shift of the Outsiders before falling to Starfire . Blackfire even with Omar Syans power up was in awe of Starfire's nova blast.

What # and was she portrayed as Starfire's superior HTH?

Originally posted by Devil Lance
3. now on to your points on Supreman and Orion. The two altercations between Starfire and Superman that I can recal is one in teen titans and another in superman/batman.

In the teen titans issue Starfire blasted Superman and he just took it it however Starfire wasobviously not trying to injure him.

Are you serious? She was blaming him for Donna's death and trying to make him feel her pain. It had no effect on him.

Originally posted by Devil Lance
Now the Superman Batman issue . Thats just anothe rexample of Jeph Loebs horrible writing He ha d Superman act lik he had never met Starfiree bfore which is not true at all.

Um, whatever. It's completely consistent with like every other time she's blasted a top tier.

Originally posted by Devil Lance
now in the jLA Techinis imperative which I assume is the Orion and Starfire fight your taling about it seemed like to me that starfire was matching the astrofforce with her starbolst for a bit and that wasn't even he rmost powerful attack.

WTF are you talking about? He was just standing there taking her blast, then the second he unleashed the Astro-Force, he effortlessly overpowered and KOed her. She doesn't match, withstand, or remain conscious against the Astro-Force for even a single panel. Orion, OTOH, is unharmed and talking as he is engulfed by her blast.

Originally posted by Devil Lance
Now on the Lex Lutor fight again that was writen by Jeph Loeb however

The first one, yeah. Lex beating her ass in the Insiders arc was Geoff Johns, however. In fact, he took her blast to no effect. Then in the next issue of the arc, Superboy was tearing Lex's armor apart.

Originally posted by Devil Lance

Lex gave Supergirl and superman good fights in that armor also Starfie wa sbale to catch up to supergirl in flight even though Supergirl left a while before Starfire did which speaks voluwms about Starfires folight speed.

Starfire also stated she may break her hand hitting Supergirl.

Originally posted by Devil Lance

I still give Starfire the majority 7-8/10

And I still don't.

snoopdogg

The only thing close between these two would be durability. WW has him bested in everthing.

I can't believe you said that.

Jimmy-Chan

Originally posted by UniOmni
Diana was trying to talk down an enraged Starfire.

Its like me dealing with any angry younger cousin. I could onepunch the little bastard, but since i care about her, i'll simply let her vent, and wait it out.

Thats pretty much all Wonder Woman did.

I disagree. They looked to me to be going at each other with similar intensity. It was just a high end Starfire showing/low end WW showing. Geoff Johns isn't the most consistent guy when it comes to power levels.

Jimmy-Chan

I know plenty about WW, for the record. I'd go so far as to says that high-end Namor is stronger than high-end WW. He's been portrayed as literally equal to The Hulk on land, and slugged evenly with Hercules. WW's best showings against top tiers involve outskilling them, not trading blows. If you want to go into low showings ... Well, I can do that too. On average Namor's equal to WW in strength.

I think people just underrate Namor because they ignorantly see him as basically Aquaman or something.

Jimmy-Chan

Originally posted by snoopdogg
The only thing close between these two would be durability. WW has him bested in everthing.

I can't believe you said that.

What? Namor is MORE durable than WW, IMO. She's been stunned by a single top tier hit lots of times, and is generally easier to hurt than he is by lower tiers. Their strength is even, while she's more skilled.

snoopdogg

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
What? Namor is MORE durable than WW, IMO. She's been stunned by a single top tier hit lots of times, and is generally easier to hurt than he is by lower tiers. Their strength is even, while she's more skilled. Their strength is even? OMG!!!!!!!!11

Jimmy-Chan

Are you guys going to counter the numerous fights I've mentioned regarding Namor vs. Marvel's top tier (including Hulk, Thor, Hercules, etc.) which can be seen in DarK Crawler's respect thread, or do you plan to just keep saying "OMG! I can't belive yu rank him there! That's soooo stoopid!!!1" as if that's a valid counter ...?

snoopdogg

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Are you guys going to counter the numerous fights I've mentioned regarding Namor vs. Marvel's top tier (including Hulk, Thor, Hercules, etc.) which can be seen in DarK Crawler's respect thread, or do you plan to just keep saying "OMG! I can't belive yu rank him there! That's soooo stoopid!!!1" as if that's a valid counter ...? No, I am not gonna waste my time. If you think WW and Namors strength is equal well....I wish you luck with that.

UniOmni

Namor has a winning record against enraged Hulks.

Has broken bands that iirc, even the Hulk wasn't able to bust.

Taken Thor and looked evenish.

Has oneshotted Beta Ray Bill.

Namor imo, has better blunt force durability. WW handles heat better than him, naturally.

Her speed is better as well.

But he has superspeed handmovement, and great skill.

He's even or stronger than her, has better durability that counts here, but has less speed than her.

Her skill is greater than his, but her gear is what puts her over the top, imo.

Namor has his own feats. They just aren't as well known as the more popular characters.

Jimmy-Chan

Originally posted by snoopdogg
No, I am not gonna waste my time. If you think WW and Namors strength is equal well....I wish you luck with that.

Sure. You clearly have little knowledge of Namor's track record or are in outright denial of it, however. If you refuse to acknowledge continuity and simply claim Namor is at whatever level you want him to be at, I don't see the point in even posting in threads involving him. My opinions are based on Namor's actual showings. If someone wants to prove me wrong, we can compare battle feats. Given that I've seen virtually all of WW and Namor's notable fights, I'm more than prepared to back up my opinion with a ton of continuity.

snoopdogg

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Sure. You clearly have little knowledge of Namor's track record or are in outright denial of it, however. If you refuse to acknowledge continuity and simply claim Namor is at whatever level you want him to be at, I don't see the point in even posting in threads involving him. My opinions are based on Namor's actual showings. If someone wants to prove me wrong, we can compare battle feats. Given that I've seen virtually all of WW and Namor's notable fights, I'm more than prepared to back up my opinion with a ton of continuity. WW helps pull the Moon and Namor braces a huge ship(underwater) for their best feats. WW lifts huge mountain ranges and Namor has a hard time flying with a huge boat anchor for mid-level feats.

Who is stronger?

UniOmni

Namor one punches Beta Ray Bill.

What feat does WW have thats even comparable?

Avalonofthewind

Is that a feat for Namor or a low showing for Bill?

snoopdogg

Originally posted by UniOmni
Namor one punches Beta Ray Bill.

What feat does WW have thats even comparable? We saw one panel of that fight. Was BRB knocked out?

UniOmni

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Is that a feat for Namor or a low showing for Bill?

Neither, imo.

It'd be a low showing if Ironman did that.

Namor is top tier, bonafide.

He might not have the lifting feats, but thats moreso DC's thing.

He's beaten or fought enough elite top tiers to be able to one punch a top tier and not get calls of bullshit, imo.

Avalonofthewind

Off the top of my head.

Holding up Asmodel's chariot by herself for a while.

Being punched from the sun to earth at speeds faster than light and getting up to keep fighting.

UniOmni

IIRC, the chariot lifting wasn't the feat.

Wasn't it, the whole lifting it while burning thing?

And kudos on the superpunch call.

snoopdogg

Originally posted by snoopdogg
We saw one panel of that fight. Was BRB knocked out?

Avalonofthewind

Originally posted by UniOmni
IIRC, the chariot lifting wasn't the feat.

Wasn't it, the whole lifting it while burning thing?

And kudos on the superpunch call.

It was both..the fact that she didn't automatically burst into flames was damn good too.

She pulled a good number on Primaid as well...and I'd put a white martian above Namor.

snoopdogg

And most of Namors good showing were underwater. He can pull maybe a 5/10 underwater with WW. But on land he's gonna bite the dust.

UniOmni

Even though some of his best showing occur outside the water?

snoopdogg

Originally posted by UniOmni
Even though some of his best showing occur outside the water? Which ones? And answer my question on BRB being "one-shotted". Was he kayoed?

SpunkySmurph

The holding-the-asteroid feat was pretty impressive on WW's part as well. If I can find the scan, I might post it.

snoopdogg

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
I'm going by Namor's performances against people such as:

*The Hulk
*Thor
*Iron Man
*The Silver Surfer
*Wonder Man
*Hercules
*The Thing
*Captain Mar-Vell
*War Machine

If I'm not mistaken weren't most of those underwater? Namor keeps his speed in the water where those characters are probably slower than on land.

snoopdogg

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
The holding-the-asteroid feat was pretty impressive on WW's part as well. If I can find the scan, I might post it. Ecactly. I cannot see Namor doing that feat as he has had problems with the anchor and the other time he had to have Captain Marvel help him fly a small object into space.

SpunkySmurph

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Ecactly. I cannot see Namor doing that feat as he has had problems with the anchor and the other time he had to have Captain Marvel help him fly a small object into space.

Here we go...

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g126/SpunkySmurph/DC/Scans/jlatitans3wwasteroid1oi.jpg

snoopdogg

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Here we go...

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g126/SpunkySmurph/DC/Scans/jlatitans3wwasteroid1oi.jpg And that would be a mid-level feat for Diana and she wasn't even struggling. Now that I think about it it was falling at a descent speed which would make it ALOT harder than just lifting it. Her best feats include being a trio in moving the Moon.

Jimmy-Chan

Originally posted by snoopdogg
WW helps pull the Moon and Namor braces a huge ship(underwater) for their best feats. WW lifts huge mountain ranges and Namor has a hard time flying with a huge boat anchor for mid-level feats.

Who is stronger?

1. WW "helping" with a lift doesn't count as an individual feat, especially when there are beings stronger than her helping with it.

2. WW has also been pinned by a tree, nearly broke her arm stopping a falling missile, stated her muscles were strained to the max holding up a collapsing bridge, etc. I'm going by battle feats rather than environmental crap since battle feats are infinitely more definitive.

3. Namor's best environmental feat is probably that enormous earthquake caused by his collision with The Hulk. Although he's probably done something better at one point. One would have to ask Dark Crawler.

Jimmy-Chan

You guys are really pushing her stopping a random chuck of asteroid as a major feat? I'm more impressed by the time Iron Man destroyed a chunk of rock the size of Manhattan by ramming into it. Is Iron Man suddenly leauges beyond Namor due to that instance?

Jimmy-Chan

Originally posted by snoopdogg
If I'm not mistaken weren't most of those underwater? Namor keeps his speed in the water where those characters are probably slower than on land.

Surfer was underwater. Thor and Hulk have been underwater and on land (he was once portrayed as equal to The Hulk in a slugfest on land.) He's matched Hercules in slugging, stunned Wonder Man with a single kick, owned Super Skrull, bashed Iron Man, held his own with Thor, shrugged off an attack that KOed She-Hulk, owned The Thing, etc. on land.

Underwater, he BEATS The Hulk.

bigbran

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Which ones? And answer my question on BRB being "one-shotted". Was he kayoed? No, all he said was that he has been hitten harder, then it shows a reference to the fight with Thor and Beta, in Blood and Thunder.

Jimmy-Chan

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
It was both..the fact that she didn't automatically burst into flames was damn good too.

She pulled a good number on Primaid as well...and I'd put a white martian above Namor.

She also got one-shotted by another White Martian in the same story arc. In fact, the White Martians stated that WW and Aquaman combined were less formidable than a single pacifist Daxamite. What she did to Primaid was based on skill rather than strength (drawing her into space and outlasting her in lung capacity.) WW's been handled easily by Martians (white and otherwise) elsewhere.

Nevertheless, I'll admit her showing against Primaid and the punch to the other WM were impressive. However, Namor can easily duplicate those feats.

snoopdogg

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
1. WW "helping" with a lift doesn't count as an individual feat, especially when there are being stronger than her helping with it. I kinda agree.

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan

3. Namor's best environmental feat is probably that enormous earthquak caused by his collision with The Hulk. Take your own advice. Would that count as a individual feat? eek!

snoopdogg

Originally posted by bigbran
No, all he said was that he has been hitten harder, then it shows a reference to the fight with Thor and Beta, in Blood and Thunder. That does not sound like a "one-shot" to me.

Jimmy-Chan

Not exactly, but Namor was portrayed as easily The Hulk's equal in strength in that instance. Regardless, as I stated, I go by battle hiearchy rather than environmental feats. But if you want to go by environmental feats, WW has more than her fair share of embarrassing showings.

SpunkySmurph

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Not exactly, but Namor was portrayed as easily The Hulk's equal in strength in that instance. Regardless, as I stated, I go by battle hiearchy rather than environmental feats. But if you want to go by environmental feats, WW has more than her fair share of embarrassing showings.

Well, if WW has embarrassing enviromental showings, Namor certainly has the equivalent in battle showings

xmarksthespot

The struggle to lift that anchor springs to mind.

Accel

I'd give Kory the majority purely because of her nova blasts.

Devil Lance

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Do you have ANY basis for such a statement other than preconceived notions? I'm going by Namor's performances against people such as:

*The Hulk
*Thor
*Iron Man
*The Silver Surfer
*Wonder Man
*Hercules
*The Thing
*Captain Mar-Vell
*War Machine
*Shrugging off The In-Betweener's attack, despite the fact that it KOed She-Hulk

He has been portrayed as an equal to The Hulk ON LAND before. Saying he is nowhere near Superman is to say that Thor is not a peer to Supes.

No one else of a high power level TRIED to take it out and I don't see any evidence of Braniac being KOed. In fact, Starfire lost to the Braniac that inhabited Indigo's body.

What # and was she portrayed as Starfire's superior HTH?

Are you serious? She was blaming him for Donna's death and trying to make him feel her pain. It had no effect on him.

Um, whatever. It's completely consistent with like every other time she's blasted a top tier.

WTF are you talking about? He was just standing there taking her blast, then the second he unleashed the Astro-Force, he effortlessly overpowered and KOed her. She doesn't match, withstand, or remain conscious against the Astro-Force for even a single panel. Orion, OTOH, is unharmed and talking as he is engulfed by her blast.

The first one, yeah. Lex beating her ass in the Insiders arc was Geoff Johns, however. In fact, he took her blast to no effect. Then in the next issue of the arc, Superboy was tearing Lex's armor apart.

Starfire also stated she may break her hand hitting Supergirl.

And I still don't.

First of don't go by feat written by Jeph loeb

He's the amzing writer who had superman break Wonder Woam's aegis braclets
whcih have withstood a blast from anm entir epantheon of gods
http://img91.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img91&image=ww21deflection34yb.jpg
http://img91.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img91&image=ww21deflection40gj.jpg
http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=ww21deflection53pu.jpg
apparently Superman> an entire pantheon of gods
yep theres a writer who knows lots about the characters hes writing roll eyes (sarcastic)

now you say Namor has beaten peole who could beat ww I dissagree

Look who ww has stalemated or beaten

CM after he had sucker punched her
http://img9.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img9&image=WaroftheGods01_24.jpg
http://img9.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img9&image=WaroftheGods01_32.jpg
http://img74.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img74&image=WaroftheGods01_35.jpg

a white martian
http://img295.echo.cx/my.php?image=jla00411n0qb.jpg
http://img295.echo.cx/my.php?image=jla00414b1lm.jpg

Kabalik
http://img176.echo.cx/my.php?image=act600pre10ml.jpg
http://img176.echo.cx/my.php?image=act600pre20gh.jpg
http://img296.echo.cx/my.php?image=act600pre37wm.jpg

Superman
http://img300.echo.cx/my.php?image=act600bat16nd.jpg
http://img300.echo.cx/my.php?image=act600bat26zp.jpg
http://img300.echo.cx/my.php?image=act600bat34uw.jpg
http://img41.echo.cx/my.php?image=action600bat46ym.jpg
http://img41.echo.cx/my.php?image=action600bat51pr.jpg

Devil Lance

Some more fights

Superman again
http://img129.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img129&image=Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg11.jpg
http://img129.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img129&image=Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg12.jpg
http://img129.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img129&image=Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg13.jpg
http://img129.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img129&image=Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg14.jpg
http://img129.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img129&image=Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg17.jpg
http://img129.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img129&image=Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg18.jpg
http://img129.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img129&image=Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg19.jpg
http://img129.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img129&image=Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg20.jpg

the sacrfice figth
3.http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=job39vm.jpg
4.http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=job40cx.jpg
5.http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=job59fa.jpg
6.http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=job60xb.jpg
7.http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=job79wa.jpg
8.http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=job81cs.jpg
9.http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=job94sk.jpg
10.http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=job108hs.jpg
11.http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=job110ay.jpg
12.http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=job127to.jpg
13.http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=job131ps.jpg
14.http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=job146fc.jpg
15.http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=job154ty.jpg
16.http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=job165zv.jpg

xmarksthespot

There's another WW/SM fight iirc where Circe has turned SM into a Doomsday/SM amalgam.

Devil Lance

and if thats still not enough
Heres some scans from JLA/ Avengers which is considered cannon in the DCU as it has been mentioned sevral time

WW vs Marvel Hercules
http://img195.echo.cx/my.php?image=jlaavengers2wwherc11rl.jpg
http://img149.echo.cx/my.php?image=jlaavengers2wwherc26ic.jpg
http://img149.echo.cx/my.php?image=jlaavengers2wwherc37mn.jpg
http://img225.echo.cx/my.php?image=jlaavengers2wwherc43an.jpg

Now heres quite a big feat
all thes heroes could not break one of Quasar's construct

http://img237.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img237&image=quaze14fc.jpg
but WW can
http://img145.echo.cx/my.php?image=sconstructs7tx.jpg

Heres WW beating the entire Wrecking Crew
http://img252.echo.cx/my.php?image=jlaavengers4wwbeatingwreckingc.jpg

lastly from JLA avengers

heres WW taking down Fing Fang Foom
http://img245.echo.cx/my.php?image=jlaavengers1beatingfinfangfoom.jpg
http://img241.echo.cx/my.php?image=jlaavengers1finfangfoombeatenb.jpg
now heres her stat sheet from the Omac project
http://img247.echo.cx/my.php?image=countdowntoinfinitecrisis12013.jpg
and heres Supermans

http://img247.echo.cx/my.php?image=countdowntoinfinitecrisis01200.jpg

and lastly heres WW vs a couple Omacs
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/56/12052005022655am2ci.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8320/12052005023106am1lq.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7938/12052005023302am7wc.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2033/12052005023526am0zf.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/5421/12052005023752am4xg.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6292/12052005023752am7be.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2150/12052005023937am6mu.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3072/12052005024107am0ig.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1632/12052005024213am2os.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6803/12052005024323am0sx.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6205/12052005024438am4sq.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/9369/12052005024526am5qx.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/9369/12052005024526am5qx.jpg

Devil Lance

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
There's another WW/SM fight iirc where Circe has turned SM into a Doomsday/SM amalgam.

yep
WW holding back vs Blood Lusted Superman
http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwoman175101ng.jpg

http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwoman175149zc.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwoman175157gc.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwoman175164vu.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwoman175195fa.jpg

http://img311.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwoman175263rn.jpg

http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwoman175290qq.jpg

http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwoman175304cl.jpg

http://img333.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwoman175327qf.jpg

now you might ask what does WW do after that ahrsh fight with Supes?
She carries a huge ship and saves it from crashing into the city

http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwoman175336nj.jpg

http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwoman175355uj.jpg
http://img226.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwoman175368hb.jpg
which brings me to another feat heres what she did afte rher fight with superman in sacrifice
http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12052005072544pm8de.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12052005072715pm8mm.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12052005072826pm4gn.jpg

Devil Lance

I'd also like to bring up this point the moon moving feat isn't her biggest one

Oh no this is
http://img146.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img146&image=jla75p401kf.jpg
http://img146.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img146&image=jla75p414hj.jpg

now Chan do you still honestly beleive Namor could beat WW

Lucid Lui

That's not really her feat though is it? Bringing combined feats into a debate is kinda useless unless it's specifically stated how much of the work she's doing.

xmarksthespot

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
That's not really her feat though is it? Bringing combined feats into a debate is kinda useless unless it's specifically stated how much of the work she's doing. I think it's more specifically meant to show she's of similar strength to Superman and Martian Manhunter, and by corollary stronger than Namor.

Devil Lance

Okay back to Starfie Vs Namor

in outsiders 31 the last Starfire vs Black fire

Powered up Blackfire sent out an energy signal so powerfull it actually fooled Starfir einto thinking that Blackfire was Tamaran's Godess X'hall.

Now amped up Blackfire who fooled Satrfire into beleving that she was X'hall because of ehr power levels was shocked and in aw by sheer power of Kory's nova balst saying that even with her power booost she had never seen anything like it before

The Nova blast Ko'ed her for a good amount of time

Devil Lance

She's obiviously doing some of the work

lets say Superman pulled 50% of it MM pulled 30% and WW pulled 20%

she still pulled well over 100 tons wink

Lucid Lui

Don't get me wrong, i think it's a great feat. I'm just saying, it's not the best feat to use in a debate because it isn't definitive.

But yeah, as x pointed out, it does show what class she runs in.

Devil Lance

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
Don't get me wrong, i think it's a great feat. I'm just saying, it's not the best feat to use in a debate because it isn't definitive.

But yeah, as x pointed out, it does show what class she runs in.

I guess wink

You do however think WW is in a whole diffrent league compared to namor atleast out of water right smile

Lucid Lui

She's definately stronger.

Devil Lance

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
She's definately stronger.

and faster
and more skilled
and she has better weapons (Tiara toss ftw)
if she uses her Braclets she's more durable
out of water WW beats Namor 10/10

wink

DarkCrawler

Sorry, but...Wonder Woman is defenitely stronger then Namor...

I should know...

Devil Lance

Heres some scans which are a good refernce to where Starfures strength to be at.

http://img225.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img225&image=168155xo.jpg

(notice Donna said she since starfire left she hasn't had anyone "strong enough to practice agianst)
now later in that scan Donna says that Starfire would always beat her.

Now imo opinion that puts Starfire at >= the Strength level of Donna who in y opinion is a mid level to low level class one hundred

DarkCrawler

That doesn't refer to strength, neccessarily. I think it is more like referring to fighting skills.

Devil Lance

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
That doesn't refer to strength, neccessarily. I think it is more like referring to fighting skills.

Okay but shes on an island filled with well trained warriors there are tons of people who would give her a good fight in terms of skills.

The way she says that wouldn't make sense for skills

for strength it would though wink

SpunkySmurph

Originally posted by Devil Lance
Okay but shes on an island filled with well trained warriors there are tons of people who would give her a good fight in terms of skills.

The way she says that wouldn't make sense for skills

for strength it would though wink

Yeah... but she's more skilled then most of the rest of the island. That's why she's saying she hasn't had anyone 'strong enough' since Starfire left.

Still a great scan for Starfire, though

Devil Lance

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Yeah... but she's more skilled then most of the rest of the island. That's why she's saying she hasn't had anyone 'strong enough' since Starfire left.

Still a great scan for Starfire, though

so your saying Donna is more skilled than Hippolyta who has lived for thousands of years and Artemis, and Philipus who also has lived for thousands of years

Hipoplyta is just as skiled in not more than donna

wink

SpunkySmurph

Originally posted by Devil Lance
so your saying Donna is more skilled than Hippolyta who has lived for thousands of years and Artemis, and Philipus who also has lived for thousands of years

Hipoplyta is just as skiled in not more than donna

wink

But does Hippolyta regularly spar with the others?

Devil Lance

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
But does Hippolyta regularly spar with the others?

Well shes dead now she die dduring Our worlds at war

but she did fight pople regulary

she sparred with the other a,azons

She beat Herkales

She went to America in the 1940s and fought with the JSA and she spareed with their members

She wa son the presnt JSA and she sparred with them which had fighting experts like Wildcat, Black Canary, Dr Mid nite, and Mr. terific all very skilled fighters.

Jimmy-Chan

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Well, if WW has embarrassing enviromental showings, Namor certainly has the equivalent in battle showings

WW has more embarrassing battle showings than Namor, from what I've seen.

Jimmy-Chan

Originally posted by Devil Lance
First of don't go by feat written by Jeph loeb

He's the amzing writer who had superman break Wonder Woam's aegis braclets
whcih have withstood a blast from anm entir epantheon of gods
http://img91.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img91&image=ww21deflection34yb.jpg
http://img91.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img91&image=ww21deflection40gj.jpg
http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=ww21deflection53pu.jpg
apparently Superman> an entire pantheon of gods
yep theres a writer who knows lots about the characters hes writing roll eyes (sarcastic)

And Phil Jiminez wrote WW saying her bracelets couldn't protect her indefinitely from Superman's punches. Seems to me her bracelts just aren't as tough against blunt force as they are against energy.

now you say Namor has beaten peole who could beat ww I dissagree.

Look who ww has stalemated or beaten

CM after he had sucker punched her
http://img9.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img9&image=WaroftheGods01_24.jpg
http://img9.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img9&image=WaroftheGods01_32.jpg
http://img74.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img74&image=WaroftheGods01_35.jpg

This is easily matched by Namor's fights with Thor, which can be found in Dark Crawler's respect thread. Also, in their other fight (Underworld Unleashed#3), a weakened CM got the better of WW and left her stunned, stealing her lasso within a few panels. Namor's record against Thor, Surfer, Hulk, etc. is better than WW's record against CM.

a white martian
http://img295.echo.cx/my.php?image=jla00411n0qb.jpg
http://img295.echo.cx/my.php?image=jla00414b1lm.jpg

Good, but like I said, this was mainly skill. Another White Martian one shotted her earlier in the story, and she got handled by a WM again in Terror Incognita. So that's two losses and one win for WW against them. Also, J'onn's brother Malefic handled WW easily, and she was stunned by being NEAR his blast (she blocked it with her bracelets, but still got stunned). According to Superman, the blast could've killed her if it landed.

WW's overall record against White Martians doesn't impress me beyond what Namor has done against top tiers in Marvel. Aside from the one time she tied Primaid in her lasso and outlasted her in space, WW's pretty much gotten owned by Martians.

Kabalik
http://img176.echo.cx/my.php?image=act600pre10ml.jpg
http://img176.echo.cx/my.php?image=act600pre20gh.jpg
http://img296.echo.cx/my.php?image=act600pre37wm.jpg

An incredibly short fight, where all Kalibak was doing was luring her into Darkseid's trap. And if you notice, Kalibak's nonchalant backhand has more effect on WW than her hammer blow has on him. Going by that, Kalibak actually looks stronger per this issue. This is far from a good reference to use to try to prove she's superior to Namor.

Superman
http://img300.echo.cx/my.php?image=act600bat16nd.jpg
http://img300.echo.cx/my.php?image=act600bat26zp.jpg
http://img300.echo.cx/my.php?image=act600bat34uw.jpg
http://img41.echo.cx/my.php?image=action600bat46ym.jpg
http://img41.echo.cx/my.php?image=action600bat51pr.jpg

... You're using a staged fight as evidence???

Jimmy-Chan

Originally posted by Devil Lance
and if thats still not enough
Heres some scans from JLA/ Avengers which is considered cannon in the DCU as it has been mentioned sevral time

WW vs Marvel Hercules
http://img195.echo.cx/my.php?image=jlaavengers2wwherc11rl.jpg
http://img149.echo.cx/my.php?image=jlaavengers2wwherc26ic.jpg
http://img149.echo.cx/my.php?image=jlaavengers2wwherc37mn.jpg
http://img225.echo.cx/my.php?image=jlaavengers2wwherc43an.jpg

That's pretty good. This is easily WW's best slugging feat. Namor, however, has done similarly against Thor and The Hulk.

Originally posted by Devil Lance
Now heres quite a big feat
all thes heroes could not break one of Quasar's construct

http://img237.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img237&image=quaze14fc.jpg
but WW can
http://img145.echo.cx/my.php?image=sconstructs7tx.jpg

Are you really comparing the two? Quasar's construct strength depends on his concentration. In IW, Wendell had time to sit there and concentrate. In Avengers/JLA, he had no idea who WW was or what her powers were. He's stated in the past how he doesn't make his constructs as strong as he can if he doesn't know the strength level of his opponent (see his Gladiator fight in Operation Galactic Storm).

It's a good feat, but not better than Namor breaking the Crimson Bands of Cytorrak (which have always held The Hulk). Additionally, you left out that she was stunned by a single blast from Iron Man. Recently, Namor took a blast from IM to no effect.

Originally posted by Devil Lance
Heres WW beating the entire Wrecking Crew
http://img252.echo.cx/my.php?image=jlaavengers4wwbeatingwreckingc.jpg

Impressive, but She-Hulk's done the same thing.

Originally posted by Devil Lance

lastly from JLA avengers

heres WW taking down Fing Fang Foom
http://img245.echo.cx/my.php?image=jlaavengers1beatingfinfangfoom.jpg
http://img241.echo.cx/my.php?image=jlaavengers1finfangfoombeatenb.jpg

That was never stated to be FFF. I took it to be another monster or dragon from the island.

Originally posted by Devil Lance

now heres her stat sheet from the Omac project
http://img247.echo.cx/my.php?image=countdowntoinfinitecrisis12013.jpg
and heres Supermans

http://img247.echo.cx/my.php?image=countdowntoinfinitecrisis01200.jpg

... You're using a stat sheet as evidence? Namor has been called The Hulk's equal in strength and has a reputation for beating him. I think that's easily a match for WW's "#2" hoopla.

Originally posted by Devil Lance
and lastly heres WW vs a couple Omacs
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/56/12052005022655am2ci.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8320/12052005023106am1lq.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7938/12052005023302am7wc.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2033/12052005023526am0zf.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/5421/12052005023752am4xg.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6292/12052005023752am7be.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2150/12052005023937am6mu.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3072/12052005024107am0ig.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1632/12052005024213am2os.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6803/12052005024323am0sx.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6205/12052005024438am4sq.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/9369/12052005024526am5qx.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/9369/12052005024526am5qx.jpg

A decent feat, but I could easily see Namor doing the same, especially given how much OMACs varied in power. In one issue, three of them got one-shotted by armored Lex Luthor.

Jimmy-Chan

Originally posted by Devil Lance

WW holding back vs Blood Lusted Superman
http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwoman175101ng.jpg

http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwoman175149zc.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwoman175157gc.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwoman175164vu.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwoman175195fa.jpg

http://img311.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwoman175263rn.jpg

http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwoman175290qq.jpg

http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwoman175304cl.jpg

http://img333.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwoman175327qf.jpg

Um, WW was holding back? Where was this stated? She said that she wanted to keep hittinh him until he drops, and she even resorted to a low blow. If she was concerned with hurting him, why would she be using cheap methods like kicking him in the nuts?

Honestly, this fight hurts WW's case, IMO. It supports her skill being superior, but I've NEVER seen Namor get physically dominated like that by a top tier. Well, barring one of his fights with The Hulk, but that was a REALLY angry Hulk (The Hulk was taking Surfer's blasts to no effect and owning him in that issue). She was fearing DEATH being hit a couple more times by Supes. Namor shrugs off Mjolnor hits. I mean, you can bring up the fact that Supes was bloodlusted, but Powergirl did much better against a bloodlusted, mind-controlled Supes.

As for the feats, again, Iron Man destroyed a rock the size of Manhattan in his fight against Terrax. Namor has always been portrayed as equal to or stronger than IM.

xmarksthespot

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Sorry, but...Wonder Woman is defenitely stronger then Namor...

I should know... 'Nuff said.

Jimmy-Chan

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Sorry, but...Wonder Woman is defenitely stronger then Namor...

I should know...

I disagree. There are only 4 ways you could come to the conclusion that WW is significantly stronger, IMO:

1. You beleive DC's top tiers are better than Marvel's

2. You disregard Namor's strength relative to Marvel's top tiers and simply point out his lack of lifting feats

3. You say WW's stronger due to her "second to Superman" monicker

4. You simply are ignorant of their histories

If you compare how he does against Thor, Hulk, Iron Man, Super Skrull, Surfer, etc. to how she does against Superman, Captain Marvel, Etrigan, Martians, and so on, I don't see how you could possibly say she looked much stronger. Much less more durable.

Superherovandal

actually if she wanted to she would have killed him. All she wanted to do was to stay alive and that becomes quite obvious as she slits his throat with her tiara. if she wanted she could have killed him. and secondly i highly doubt you know anything about Namor compared to DC. He's why we even think Namor is toptier. He created and did 99% of the Respect thread.

xmarksthespot

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
I disagree. There are only 4 ways you could come to the conclusion that WW is significantly stronger, IMO:

1. You beleive DC's top tiers are better than Marvel's

2. You disregard Namor's strength relative to Marvel's top tiers and simply point out his lack of lifting feats

3. You say WW's stronger due to her "second to Superman" monicker

4. You simply are ignorant of their histories

If you compare how he does against Thor, Hulk, Iron Man, Super Skrull, Surfer, etc. to how she does against Superman, Captain Marvel, Etrigan, Martians, and so on, I don't see how you could possibly say she looked much stronger. Much less more durable. Did you just say Darkcrawler disregards Namor's strength and doesn't know his history? What are you smokin'?

Jimmy-Chan

Alright, borrowing some scans from DarkCrawler's respect thread.

Namor breaks the Crimson Bands, which have always held The Hulk (barring one occasion when Strange was weakened; they've always held when he was at full power):

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/5821/namorfeat12bo.gif
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/4775/namorfeat23wb.gif

Namor wrestles The Hulk into the water:

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/7674/avengers003173hf.jpg

The second underwater win vs. The Hulk:

http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/2563/incrediblehulk118187ji.jpg
http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/3936/incrediblehulk118195ly.jpg
http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/9269/incrediblehulk118200el.jpg
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4384/incrediblehulk118211kg.jpg

Third win against The Hulk, albeit this time using the environment (and I'll admit that The Hulk had the advantage for most of the fight, but it was no worse than the strength advantage Superman generally displays over WW):

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/8007/namorfeat265gs.gif

Namor takes the force of a minature nuke:

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/6527/namorfeat295yp.gif

Namor vs. Apocalypse:

http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvspoccy35qm.jpg

http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvspoccy49pc.jpg

http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvspoccy53gj.jpg

Table jobbing aside, the fact that he could go toe-to-toe with Apoc is impressive. Apoc is a guy who's manhandled The Hulk, got She-Hulk to stand down with a simple choke, was barely phased by Exodus' blasts, easily bent or broke Sue Richards' force feild, got the better of Prime Eternal Ikarus, taken Black Bolt's scream, etc. On average, I'd still rank Apoc above top tier strength, even with his recent jobbings.

Namor owns Super-Skrull:

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/7346/namorfeat475ib.gif

Namor defeats Captain Mar-Vell:

http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=submariner30030tz.jpg

http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=submariner30043jd.jpg

Namor takes The Human Torch's fire (just to show that fire isn't an auto-win against him; Torch is a guy who can hurt The Thing or She-Hulk with his blasts):

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/9233/namorfeat41zp.gif

Namor owns Iron Man:

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/5295/namorfeat594gj.gif

Namor vs. Thor. Thor holds the advantage IMO, but he started the fight with a surprise attack and seemed to be the aggressor. Especially a good durability showing for Namor:

http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvsthor13er.gif
http://img466.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvsthor28gf.gif
http://img466.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvsthor34rr.gif
http://img466.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvsthor41dv.gif
http://img466.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvsthor57vi.gif

The time Namor claims he's The Hulk's equal in strength on land (the actual slugfest was more or less even as well, so his claim per that issue wasn't that far-fetched):

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/3738/hulknamorspeed3uu.gif

Brief skirmish with Hercules. Nothing conclusive, but their strength appears to be at or near the same class:

http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/6205/namovsherc15ts.gif
http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/7918/namovsherc24lo.gif

Namor vs. The Silver Surfer:

http://img235.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorss17mt.gif

http://img235.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorss28kg.gif

http://img235.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorss32qq.gif

Another fight between Namor and Surfer. Namor was the aggressor, but the fact that his attacks on Surfer had as much effect as vice versa is still pretty good:

http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/5047/defenders002013nm.jpg
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6333/defenders00202036vz.jpg
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5285/defenders002049eu.jpg
http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/8946/defenders002053ez.jpg
http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/5328/defenders002062ig.jpg

Namor also has other impressive showings against some of these. He's stalemated Herc on land, ditto Hulk (may get the full scans for that one soon), and wrestled Thor's hammer away from him on one occasion. Recently, he also wrecked Iron Man hardcore. Oh, and he matched Radioactive Man in a slugfest in Thunderbolts. May get around to getting the scans for these myself, if I can't find them in DarkCrawler's thread.

Jimmy-Chan

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Did you just say Darkcrawler disregards Namor's strength and doesn't know his history? What are you smokin'?

... Um, that's putting words in my mouth. I said people who see WW as significantly stronger than Namor likely fit into one of these four categories. Not all four of them. And it's also entirely possible than DarkCrawler's knowledge of Namor's lower showings, couple with his ignorance of WW's own low showings is the reason why. Or it could just be that he's influenced by board hype. He'd have to clarify his reasoning himself.

As for me personally, I'm very familiar with both WW and Namor's high and low strength showings, and I see their strength as essentially equal. Sometimes I sway to one or the other, but it's extremely close. Both of them are strong enough to give top tiers great fights consistently, but look noticably weaker on average.

Jimmy-Chan

Originally posted by Superherovandal
actually if she wanted to she would have killed him. All she wanted to do was to stay alive and that becomes quite obvious as she slits his throat with her tiara. if she wanted she could have killed him. and secondly i highly doubt you know anything about Namor compared to DC. He's why we even think Namor is toptier. He created and did 99% of the Respect thread.

1. Because it slit his throat doesn't mean she could've killed him. He took a similar throat slit during Loeb's run on S/B and WON the fight. The neck slit simply slowed him down long enough for her to break the mind control. If anything, Superman could've killed her when she was lying on the ground for over a page if his greif wasn't clouding his judgement and he had just went for the kill instead of standing there and making a speech. Besides which, how does her tiara cutting Superman, who's been cut by lots of magic objects, prove she's stronger?

2. DC's top tiers are not stronger than Marvel's. You can find feats between mountain smashing and planet busting for both, but on average they're even. Namor would do as well against DC's top tiers as he does against Marvel's, IMO.

Devil Lance

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
1. Because it slit his throat doesn't mean she could've killed him. He took a similar throat slit during Loeb's run on S/B and WON the fight. The neck slit simply slowed him down long enough for her to break the mind control. If anything, Superman could've killed her when she was lying on the ground for over a page if his greif wasn't clouding his judgement and he had just went for the kill instead of standing there and making a speech. Besides which, how does her tiara cutting Superman, who's been cut by lots of magic objects, prove she's stronger?

2. DC's top tiers are not stronger than Marvel's. You can find feats between mountain smashing and planet busting for both, but on average they're even. Namor would do as well against DC's top tiers as he does against Marvel's, IMO.

wallbash

don't you get it Loeb is a Superman and batman fanboy

He had Batman take hits from Darkseid without dieing

LHe Had Superman break Wonder Woman's braclets which have withstood blasts from entire pantheons of Gods .
Loeb is a horrible writer to use his books for feats when it comes to Superman and Batman

and anyways that fight took place in anotherr reality so we don't know how powerful that Wonder Woman is compared to the DCU Wonder Woman.

Jimmy-Chan

Here, Namor matches Hercules until he becomes dehydrated. Note, Namor mentions he's been out of water too long, which implies that he lost his strength that quickly only because of how long he'd been out of water prior to the Herc fight:

http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/3564/namorfeat1173gx.gif

Once they're underwater, Namor starts owning Herc, but then returns them to the surface via the Cosmic Cube out of honor. Not the spectator says that now that they're back on land, neither can defeat the other:

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/363/namorfeat1169jx.gif

Namor matches Herc on land again, although he takes a breif dip in the water during the fight. It's unclear how long he'd been on land beforehand, but he does mention his strength was "restored" by the water. Here it is:

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/4082/namor1nj8.jpg

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/6073/namor2pk3.jpg

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/6093/namor3so9.jpg

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/1962/namor4bf5.jpg

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1549/namor5mm5.jpg

Namor vs. The Hulk on land. The fight lasts almost the entire issue, most of which was off-panel. Also note that Namor was actually holding back at first:

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/2000/hulknamorqz9.jpg

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/5185/hulknamor1kp9.jpg

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/4976/hulknamor2tb9.jpg

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/7712/hulknamor3yw2.jpg

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/1403/hulknamor4bq3.jpg

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/2215/hulknamor5ix3.jpg

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/9139/hulknamor6jt1.jpg

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/148/hulknamor7wg3.jpg

Jimmy-Chan

Originally posted by Devil Lance
wallbash

don't you get it Loeb is a Superman and batman fanboy

He had Batman take hits from Darkseid without dieing

LHe Had Superman break Wonder Woman's braclets which have withstood blasts from entire pantheons of Gods .
Loeb is a horrible writer to use his books for feats when it comes to Superman and Batman

and anyways that fight took place in anotherr reality so we don't know how powerful that Wonder Woman is compared to the DCU Wonder Woman.

1. WW's bracelets have easily withstood Ares' blasts, yet it was stated that both Kronos and Ares have broken the Aegis before. With Kronos, it was a physical blow, and presumably the same held true for Ares. It seems to me that her bracelets are just much better against energy than blunt force. This is backed up by the fact that she stated they couldn't protect her forever from Kal's blows under Jiminez as well, and likewise Loeb wrote her easily blocking HV and Omega Beams with them.

2. Yeah, Loeb's a fanboy, but so is Rucka.

3. It wasn't really an alternate reality; it was an altered reality. It was the mainstream universe, but was tampered with for a time. IMO, that doesn't really invalidate the feat any moreso than it invalidates what happened in IC while Alex Luthor was mucking with the universes. Regardless, I wasn't actually referencing that. I was just making note of Superman's ability to handle a neck slit and still win a fight.

4. Logically, a neck slit shouldn't stop Superman, given how his physiology works. He was able to survive for a brief time after his heart had been ripped out by holding onto the sun. Plus he has an insane healing factor under many writers. I don't think it's fanboyish to have Superman fight through a neck slit and still win.

5. Batman had a Mother Box protecting him and DS was pulling his punches so as not to kill him. Batman said this himself.

Jimmy-Chan

Namor vs. a mind-controlled Hulk on land, also from DarkCrawler's respect thread:

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/9893/namorvsdarkhulk12uk.gif
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/1638/namorvsdarkhulk26ft.gif
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/8523/namorvsdarkhulk33eb.gif
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/5644/namorvsdarkhulk40yd.gif
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/8383/namorvsdarkhulk50ic.gif
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/5650/namorvsdarkhulk60vv.gif
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/2950/namorvsdarkhulk72we.gif
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/1476/namorvsdarkhulk83vd.gif
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/6966/namorvsdarkhulk98ae.gif

IMO, Namor's slugfests with The Hulk, Hercules, and Thor alone pretty much establish that his strength is on par with WW's. His showings against Surfer, Strange, Iron Man, Apocalypse, The Thing, Mar-Vell, Super-Skrull, etc. just cement it further.