Originally posted by |King Joker|
Usually when people dispute a viewpoint because of a certain 'context' someone's ignored, they mention it right off the bat. And if you haven't noticed, I hardly gave a shit about this conversation enough to 'properly' address your excuses, as was obvious from my non-serious "ahaha" comment aimed towards banter, plus the fact I'm not going to put in the effort to counter a point you didn't even flesh out.
>doesn't give a shit about the conversation enough to address my points
>ends up in a multipages "debate" and just wrote a wall of text
ok
And yeah, I tried to start a conversation. I'm not a tryhard to drop wall of text in response to one liners like DMB, so I started by challenging your view. You also waited for like 2 pages to make your own argument, yet you attack me for not doing so in my very first post? Ok.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
"Do you have a legitimate argument against my desperate excuse???" Sure, 1. just because the text mentioned Kenobi was about to 'counter' Dooku, doesn't mean he actually would have been successful in his attempt; this is common ****ing sense. The text stating that Kenobi "reached for the Force to counter Dooku" is not definitive proof he could have broken free or prevented himself from getting in that position in the first place -- and either way, Dooku being fast enough to render Kenobi's attempts at a counter worthless is a point in Dooku's favor, and previously Dooku already floored Kenobi's ass while having Anakin to deal with, so I find it unlikely that Dooku couldn't make Kenobi his ***** whenever he wanted with telekinesis.
Except the text makes it abundantly clear, why Kenobi failed to counter it:
"He reached for the Force to counter Dooku, but the attack had been too sudden.
--Revenge of the Sith junior novel
It's because the attack was too fast. Not because it was too powerful, or too powerful and too fast. Just too fast. If the writer wanted to convey that Dooku is too powerful for Kenobi to counter the choke, then he would've worded it accordingly.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
Absolutely ****ing hilarious that you want a specific quote about Vader being ampled on Malachor yet you've completely failed to show an explicit quote regarding RotS Kenobi > ANH Kenobi in the Force. But yes, it's called common sense: The Inquisitors were capable of using their flight ability because they were on Malachor, i.e. a Sith homeworld that has ancient corpses ridden all over the ground, and a Sith holocron at the center of the temple (basically, what would be described in a dictionary as a "dark side nexus"
. If the Inquisitors can use powers they were unable to use outside of Malachor, then I don't think it's much of a stretch to assume Vader also benefitted from Malachor. Sorry I don't have an actual "Vader was amped on Malachor!" quote, but I'm assuming common sense should suffice, right?
You say it's common sense, yet a guy who worked on it doesn't know the reason for it. Lmao.
The quote is unsure and vague. The effect of nexuses is barely explored in canon. The episode came out almost a year ago, yet no confirmation about Vader being amped surfaced. Excuse me for being sceptical.
Cade fought Krayt too in a sith temple full of sith artifact, yet you don't see me parading around saying for a fact that Krayt was amped and Cade weakened. Not without hard evidence.
PS: I showed you a quote on ANH < RotS Kenobi, you just ignored it
Originally posted by |King Joker|
Which came after you going "u dunt knoww shit bc u theenk this ahsoka feat is impressive!!!!11!!1!" Boo hoo, stop crying about ad hominems when that's basically exactly what this has been since the discussion began, and you're hardly innocent yourself.
I'm aware, but you are the one who started crying about it, I just retorted.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
In which the examples you brought forth were utter horseshit? Lol, okay.
They were all duels with Sith who regularly use the force, yet they elected not to in those specific examples. Cry me a river that your double standards are showing.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
Let's go through this, because you obviously are not getting it.
1. Ahsoka "stands with the best" when it comes to the Force (presumably in the context of Star Wars Rebels, since it was a Rebels Recon regarding the show).
So? Kenobi was stated to be one of the most powerful jedi who ever lived, being a tier 8 duelist (which inclused the power in the force too fyi) which is pretty much a "cheat" and only reserved for enlightened jedi. He was stated to be a threat to Count Dooku in combat. Yet you have no qualms thinking Dooku can wreck him. Even better you actively argue against my evidence for the contrary. So how's your divergent stances on the 2 issues suppose to convince me that you are right in both cases?
Originally posted by |King Joker|
2. In modern depictions of Vader's fights, (i.e. not solely relying on a 1977 film for the basis for Vader's Force abilities and demeanor in fights that I guess IYO should be absolutely irrefutably the basis for Vader forever), Vader does use the Force;
You know there is this thing called PIS, right? Hilarious that you call my examples embarrassinglybad and the worst argument on KMC ever, yet you couldn't even come up with a proper response. You straight up acknowledged that you don't know one of the fight nor do you care to read it, and for the rest your response was less adequate
I specifically brought up a bunch of examples where someone can ragdoll his opponent, is shown to abuse his powers, would've been easier to do it. Yet elected not to.
Maul wanted to capture Kenobi to exact his revenge, yet despite him being able to ragdoll him, he decides to duel him isntead for like 5 minutes, ending up losing and his brother maimed. Same on the shuttle. He could've ragdolled Kenobi yet let him just walk away, literally. Wouldn't it be easier to capture him by choking him unconscious?
Or how about Dooku? In AotC he starts both his duels right off the bat with Force attacks. He was in a hurry because of the Jedi reinforcements. Yet still choses to duel both Kenobi and Anakin. And the same inclination of force usage remains in S6, yet again he chose to duel them for no reason.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
3. "Vader could have ragdolled Ahsoka whenever he wanted" has no proof and is baseless. You can say the same about mine all you want, but I really think it's ridiculous that you're so oblivious that the criticisms you levy towards my arguments are the exact same that could be levied towards yours, except far more accurately against yours. Like Jesus Christ, at least use your own standards and adopt a "who knows?" position on this. And by the way, my position isn't "Vader didn't so he couldn't", because arguments are not in a vacuum; they're based on other variables, circumstances, and considerations that make up the argument. If you're going to accuse my position of making assumptions while spouting that aforementioned shit off, then you're as oblivious as it gets.
I didn't say Vader definitely ragdolls. I just challanged your view of the notion that "he didn't so he can't". Which was actual arguments made in the past.
I admit, I haven't heared some of the arguments you just made here, which are a far cry from "he didn't so he can't" used a long time ago. And they actually line up with my own arguments for Kenobi, so I'm willing to entertain them
But if you still deny my Kenobi arugment when it's the exact same as your assoka argument then you are a disgusting hypocrite
Originally posted by |King Joker|
We could have also cut all of this out if you were clear in your original post, and didn't randomly bring up Ahsoka who was completely irrelevant to the original discussion with Dooku and Kenobi. Oh, but I'm the butthurt one, sure.
Hey, my original post was clear, you started trolling I just followed the act
what the hell did that say? Just cause OB1 "quit" is in no way indicative of the ultimate outcome. I could just as easily say that he knew he couldn't win/escape and gave up...you don't know that OB1 would have won. And people seem to forget that, yes Vader had a suit that might weigh more, but he also has cybernetic enhancements to aid with strength. And not even ROTS ob1 can match Vader's force mastery. What good is being faster and younger when you have the force choking the shit out of you?